Lennon's mythical RD chess capabilities

[Hibbyradge]

I've read a lot of people dismissing the prospect of Neil Lennon returning to manage Hibs arguing, in part, that he worked his ticket so he could join Celtic.

As convenient as it might be, that suggestion does stand up to critical examination.

Firstly, why would he have to be duplicitous? If Celtic had wanted him, no matter what we might have said, they'd just have taken him.

I read someone say it was to avoid Celtic paying us compensation. Lennon had just over a year of his contract left. Given that they received £9m in compensation from Leicester for Rodgers and his staff, anything Hibs were entitled to would have been peanuts in comparison.

So onto the 4D chess bit. Lennon was suspended on 25 January 2019. This means that he must have known before then that Leicester were going to sack Puel in 4 weeks time. 4 weeks during which Leicester had 4 or 5 games. What if they'd won them all?

Ok. Let's assume that somehow that was the case. Leicester would presumably have had to have approached Brendan Rodgers well before then in order to persuade him to leave Celtic and agree staff and terms etc etc. Clearly, if that had happened, Celtic would have had to have been kept in the dark.

So when did Celtic approach Lennon to tell him to work his ticket? It just doesn't add up.

The official explanation is far more plausible.

Puel was sacked after Leicester only managed one league win and one draw since the turn of the year.

Leicester have made a habit of replacing managers quickly and they moved for Rogers. At the time, Celtic were 8 points clear at the top of the league but they hadn't planned on Rogers leaving (Rogers had promised publicly to see out his contract, as he's done again btw) and because Lennon was available he was seen as a safe pair of hands and appointed until the end of the season. He did well and his contract was extended at the end of the season.

Unless you think Celtic only gave him 3 months to maintain the 4D illusion?

So, I understand not wanting him back, I have no strong feelings for any candidate, but the idea that he worked his ticket for the Celtic job is just another conspiracy theory.

[Hibbyradge]

Tldr. 😃

[blackpoolhibs]

I've read a lot of people dismissing the prospect of Neil Lennon returning to manage Hibs arguing, in part, that he worked his ticket so he could join Celtic.

As convenient as it might be, that suggestion does stand up to critical examination.

Firstly, why would he have to be duplicitous? If Celtic had wanted him, no matter what we might have said, they'd just have taken him.

I read someone say it was to avoid Celtic paying us compensation. Lennon had just over a year of his contract left. Given that they received £9m in compensation from Leicester for Rodgers and his staff, anything Hibs were entitled to would have been peanuts in comparison.

So onto the 4D chess bit. Lennon was suspended on 25 January 2019. This means that he must have known before then that Leicester were going to sack Puel in 4 weeks time. 4 weeks during which Leicester had 4 or 5 games. What if they'd won them all?

Ok. Let's assume that somehow that was the case. Leicester would presumably have had to have approached Brendan Rodgers well before then in order to persuade him to leave Celtic and agree staff and terms etc etc. Clearly, if that had happened, Celtic would have had to have been kept in the dark.

So when did Celtic approach Lennon to tell him to work his ticket? It just doesn't add up.

The official explanation is far more plausible.

Puel was sacked after Leicester only managed one league win and one draw since the turn of the year.

Leicester have made a habit of replacing managers quickly and they moved for Rogers. At the time, Celtic were 8 points clear at the top of the league but they hadn't planned on Rogers leaving (Rogers had promised publicly to see out his contract, as he's done again btw) and because Lennon was available he was seen as a safe pair of hands and appointed until the end of the season. He did well and his contract was extended at the end of the season.

Unless you think Celtic only gave him 3 months to maintain the 4D illusion?

So, I understand not wanting him back, I have no strong feelings for any candidate, but the idea that he worked his ticket for the Celtic job is just another conspiracy theory.

Aye but apart from all that...........:agree:

[Hibbyradge]

The title is meant to read 4D not RD.

Would an admin be so kind as to amend it for me, please.

[Doh Rae Me]

Never let the facts get in the way of a hibs.net myth.:thumbsup:

[Percy Vere]

I think you can rest your case.
But isn't any manager or player come to that, working their ticket.
They must all be hoping for a future bigger gig, there's nothing wrong with that.
I'd welcome Lennon back, could only be positive for Hibs.
I'm worried that Brown is being considered, we need tried and tested and I don't believe Scotty offers us that at this time.

[Since452]

There must have been another reason for the bizarre team selections. Genuinely thought he was trying to get himself sacked. He completely lost the plot.

[Hibbyradge]

I think you can rest your case.
But isn't any manager or player come to that, working their ticket.
They must all be hoping for a future bigger gig, there's nothing wrong with that.
I'd welcome Lennon back, could only be positive for Hibs.
I'm worried that Brown is being considered, we need tried and tested and I don't believe Scotty offers us that at this time.

In the sense you mean, yes, they're all "working their tickets". Well maybe not the likes of Alex Ferguson, Klopp or Pep.

But deliberately engineering circumstances under which he'd be sacked? No chance. The man was, possibly still is, a hothead and he couldn't control his behaviour.

I should have added in my OP, to complete the 4D move, that Lennon must have known that Leeanne Dempster would have sacked him too.

[Hibbyradge]

There must have been another reason for the bizarre team selections. Genuinely thought he was trying to get himself sacked. He completely lost the plot.

You've answered your own question.

[Smartie]

I've read a lot of people dismissing the prospect of Neil Lennon returning to manage Hibs arguing, in part, that he worked his ticket so he could join Celtic.

As convenient as it might be, that suggestion does stand up to critical examination.

Firstly, why would he have to be duplicitous? If Celtic had wanted him, no matter what we might have said, they'd just have taken him.

I read someone say it was to avoid Celtic paying us compensation. Lennon had just over a year of his contract left. Given that they received £9m in compensation from Leicester for Rodgers and his staff, anything Hibs were entitled to would have been peanuts in comparison.

So onto the 4D chess bit. Lennon was suspended on 25 January 2019. This means that he must have known before then that Leicester were going to sack Puel in 4 weeks time. 4 weeks during which Leicester had 4 or 5 games. What if they'd won them all?

Ok. Let's assume that somehow that was the case. Leicester would presumably have had to have approached Brendan Rodgers well before then in order to persuade him to leave Celtic and agree staff and terms etc etc. Clearly, if that had happened, Celtic would have had to have been kept in the dark.

So when did Celtic approach Lennon to tell him to work his ticket? It just doesn't add up.

The official explanation is far more plausible.

Puel was sacked after Leicester only managed one league win and one draw since the turn of the year.

Leicester have made a habit of replacing managers quickly and they moved for Rogers. At the time, Celtic were 8 points clear at the top of the league but they hadn't planned on Rogers leaving (Rogers had promised publicly to see out his contract, as he's done again btw) and because Lennon was available he was seen as a safe pair of hands and appointed until the end of the season. He did well and his contract was extended at the end of the season.

Unless you think Celtic only gave him 3 months to maintain the 4D illusion?

So, I understand not wanting him back, I have no strong feelings for any candidate, but the idea that he worked his ticket for the Celtic job is just another conspiracy theory.

I'd heard - and from a decent, if imperfect source - that Lennon was going back to Celtic prior to any of the suspension stuff happening at Hibs.

TBH, over time (and grilling my source a bit) I've decided that it was luck, coincidence and a sequence of guesses that made it look like my guy was spot on.

Rodgers was likely to be leaving Celtic that summer whatever happened iirc. Lennon may well have been sounded out about going back then and tentatively agreed. That the Kamberi stuff blew up and then the Leicester job became available led to a particular chain of events happening wasn't related to this so I don't think he worked his ticket.

He might well have had an intention to join Celtic that summer though...

[WhileTheChief..]

Yeah the working his ticket thing is just something used against him.

There was never any truth to it.

Lennon was all set to go work in China before the Leicester thing happened.

.

[superfurryhibby]

The working his ticket line, it was nonsense.

Losing the plot, behaving like a ****, bullying players, being tactically inept, not winning games. None of it was part of a masterplan on Lennon's part, it's just more like he couldn't handle the job by then.

[allezsauzee]

The human brain requires narratives and patterns behind things happening. We find random sequences of events very difficult to deal with. Therefore Lennon must have engineered it all.

[superfurryhibby]

I'd heard - and from a decent, if imperfect source - that Lennon was going back to Celtic prior to any of the suspension stuff happening at Hibs.

TBH, over time (and grilling my source a bit) I've decided that it was luck, coincidence and a sequence of guesses that made it look like my guy was spot on.

Rodgers was likely to be leaving Celtic that summer whatever happened iirc. Lennon may well have been sounded out about going back then and tentatively agreed. That the Kamberi stuff blew up and then the Leicester job became available led to a particular chain of events happening wasn't related to this so I don't think he worked his ticket.

He might well have had an intention to join Celtic that summer though...

The way he had Hibs playing, there was no chance he was getting that Celtic job in the summer.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The working his ticket line, it was nonsense.

Losing the plot, behaving like a ****, bullying players, being tactically inept, not winning games. None of it was part of a masterplan on Lennon's part, it's just more like he couldn't handle the job by then.

This, Hibs had fallen off the rails by the time he left and even without the alleged dressing room bust up, insults aimed at LD or whatever it was he would have been sacked anyway. IMO he is the last person this club needs back in the building, not because of his propensity to go off like a hand grenade ( plenty of managers are like that ) but because I simply don't think he's a particularly good manager.

[Torto7]

I'm not sure what folk want tbh. All of our managers apart from Alex Miller have been short-term with most either getting punted or a few going to bigger jobs.

A guy like Lennon gave us a good solid exciting period before it went breasts up. Can we ask for anymore than that? Jack Ross was similar.

[MrRobot]

The working his ticket line, it was nonsense.

Losing the plot, behaving like a ****, bullying players, being tactically inept, not winning games. None of it was part of a masterplan on Lennon's part, it's just more like he couldn't handle the job by then.

He definitely had a bit of a meltdown towards the end but i also don’t believe he was backed to replace the players that we lost; maybe his team selections were to prove a point about lack of backing, who knows.

Lennon had us playing some of the best football i’ve seen in along time, that 6 months post promotion was unreal.

FWIW, the Hibs players seemingly loved him and in interviews always seem to speak highly of him.

[Since452]

We saw quite a dramatic upturn in results when Lennon left did we not? Hecky managed to salvage top 6 when Lennon had us 8th and going down the way. Remember thinking a weight had been lifted off the players when he left. It had become the Neil Lennon show and all a bit of a farce in the end.

[WhileTheChief..]

The way he had Hibs playing, there was no chance he was getting that Celtic job in the summer.

Another good point that is often overlooked.

For all the chat on here about the end of his time being a disaster, why on earth would Celtic go back for him if that was the case.

Things started to wrong the previous summer when we sold McGinn. We all expected the money to be reinvested in the squad and we’re gutted at the way that transfer window transpired. Lennon woukd have felt similarly I’d have thought.

He’ll soon have the chance to pick up where he left off :)

[SON OF PADDY]

This, Hibs had fallen off the rails by the time he left and even without the alleged dressing room bust up, insults aimed at LD or whatever it was he would have been sacked anyway. IMO he is the last person this club needs back in the building, not because of his propensity to go off like a hand grenade ( plenty of managers are like that ) but because I simply don't think he's a particularly good manager.


My thoughts to, good first season then the wheels fell off the wagon!

[Jones28]

I've never been of the opinion Lennon went back to Celtic by design. It was pure luck and good fortune for him to wind up back there after the **** job he was doing at Hibs.

[Pretty Boy]

It's more his sketchy managerial record that puts me off rather than him working his ticket.

For a serial winner who doesn't ever accept losing he's got some questionable results on his CV. 10/11 - 2nd to Rangers in the league, lost LC final to Rangers. 11/12 - lost LC final to Kilmarnock, lost SC semi final to Hearts. 12/13 - lost LC semi final to St Mirren. 13/14 - Lost in LC 3rd round to Morton and SC 5th round to Aberdeen. 16/17 - Lost to Queen of the South in the LC 2nd round. 17/18 - Lost to Hearts in the SC 4th round. 18/19 - Lost to Aberdeen in the LC QF, 2 wins in 14 at the time he was sacked. 20/21 - 2nd to Rangers in the league and lost to Ross County in the LC 3rd round.

I liked Lennon for a long time when he was here but he has as many question marks about him as almost all the other names linked. I'd argue he was the right man at the right time to drag us out the Championship but he has potential disaster written all over him this time around.

[Northernhibee]

It's more his sketchy managerial record that puts me off rather than him working his ticket.

For a serial winner who doesn't ever accept losing he's got some questionable results on his CV. 10/11 - 2nd to Rangers in the league, lost LC final to Rangers. 11/12 - lost LC final to Kilmarnock, lost SC semi final to Hearts. 12/13 - lost LC semi final to St Mirren. 13/14 - Lost in LC 3rd round to Morton and SC 5th round to Aberdeen. 16/17 - Lost to Queen of the South in the LC 2nd round. 17/18 - Lost to Hearts in the SC 4th round. 18/19 - Lost to Aberdeen in the LC QF, 2 wins in 14 at the time he was sacked. 20/21 - 2nd to Rangers in the league and lost to Ross County in the LC 3rd round.

I liked Lennon for a long time when he was here but he has as many question marks about him as almost all the other names linked. I'd argue he was the right man at the right time to drag us out the Championship but he has potential disaster written all over him this time around.

The Hibs that Neil Lennon did well with had the best midfield in Scotland bar none and a legendary back line at the peak of their careers. He also had a mercurial and focused striker in Jason Cummings.

The one that he struggled with had an imbalanced midfield and a leaky defence.

He’s down he can work with the former but I’m not convinced that he knows how to fix the latter.

[GRA]

If we want stability, and clearly we do after Maloney & Johnson, then Lenny isn't our man.

He was great the first couple years in charge, the latter part of the 17/18 season we played some wonderful football. But during those last few months it went sour he imploded.

Like he does at all his clubs, he has a limited shelf life. Let's not go back there, his time has been and gone.

[matty_f]

Tldr. 😃

Quoting this rather than the extended version 😁

I’m generally a big believer in Occam’s Razor and so instinctively I’m inclined to side with your perspective.

However, on this occasion i had conversations well in advance of Lennon’s exit where people (for want of a better expression here, but i know it sounds pretentious as anything) “close to” Celtic, Lennon and Hibs - not the sane person but people who fit either one or multiple categories who openly discussed the situation.

Rogers was always leaving, that it was Leicester was just down to timing, his agent had been pushing to get him back to the EPL and there were several interested clubs therefore Lennon did not need to know in advance Leicester were going to sack their manager. The vacancy was always going to arise.

Celtic could pay compensation, this is true. They could have bought John McGinn as well but you might remember why they didn’t.

The chat at the time, and I can only go with what i was told, was that it wouldn’t hurt Lennon’s chances if he was immediately available and there was no possibility of Hibs being difficult.

I can only emphasise the timeline here that this was before the Kamberi fall out and well before Rogers’ exit from Celtic.

So i agree, in your description of events it’s absurd. The flip side though, is that a number of folk - and I’m sure there are others on here that will have heard similar if I did - would have had to have been playing 5D chess to get that storyline moving in a way that was almost exactly how it transpired months before it did.

Occam’s razor applied to that shifts the perspective.

[nonshinyfinish]

So onto the 4D chess bit


The title is meant to read 4D not RD.


playing 5D chess

We're never going to find out how many dimensions Neil Francis Lennon's chess board has, are we?

[wookie70]

There were enough reasons to sack Lennon without Celtc having anything to do with it. He seems a manager that can get very good players, who are playing well to have a little bit extra belief. He doesn't seem to have much of a clue when it comes to creating a good team or another approach when things aren't going well or when the good players leave. He had a good overall record at Hibs(Championship helped greatly), which was neutral for the most part but included a poor spell and a very good spell. He clearly has his demons and that meant he would throw players and squads under the bus and fail to even report for press conferences etc. Quite similar to LJ in those respects. To me, there are far better candidates with McInnes being a good way ahead of Lennon and they don't come with baggage and the potential to make things worse very quickly.

[matty_f]

We're never going to find out how many dimensions Neil Francis Lennon's chess board has, are we?

I went for 5D because the others had to be a step ahead of NFL.

[Hibbyradge]

Quoting this rather than the extended version 😁

I’m generally a big believer in Occam’s Razor and so instinctively I’m inclined to side with your perspective.

However, on this occasion i had conversations well in advance of Lennon’s exit where people (for want of a better expression here, but i know it sounds pretentious as anything) “close to” Celtic, Lennon and Hibs - not the sane person but people who fit either one or multiple categories who openly discussed the situation.

Rogers was always leaving, that it was Leicester was just down to timing, his agent had been pushing to get him back to the EPL and there were several interested clubs therefore Lennon did not need to know in advance Leicester were going to sack their manager. The vacancy was always going to arise.

Celtic could pay compensation, this is true. They could have bought John McGinn as well but you might remember why they didn’t.

The chat at the time, and I can only go with what i was told, was that it wouldn’t hurt Lennon’s chances if he was immediately available and there was no possibility of Hibs being difficult.

I can only emphasise the timeline here that this was before the Kamberi fall out and well before Rogers’ exit from Celtic.

So i agree, in your description of events it’s absurd. The flip side though, is that a number of folk - and I’m sure there are others on here that will have heard similar if I did - would have had to have been playing 5D chess to get that storyline moving in a way that was almost exactly how it transpired months before it did.

Occam’s razor applied to that shifts the perspective.

I don't believe that Lennon engineered his departure from Hibs in January 2019 because a vacancy might possibly arise at some point before the end of the 20/21 season after which Roger's contract at Celtic would have come to a natural end.

I also don't believe that Lennon would do so in order to sign a 3 month contract with Celtic with no guarantee of anything else. And I don't believe that Celtic would only offer a 3 month contract if their real intention was to give him 12 months rolling.

I also don't believe that Celtic would have tapped him up to return after the run of results he had at Hibs, not to mention his erratic behaviour.

I do believe, however, he was a convenient stop gap for a team clear at the top of the league who were taken unawares by Rogers' sudden departure. He kept Celtic at the top and went on to win the Cup so was rewarded with 12 months rolling.

[Hibbyradge]

We're never going to find out how many dimensions Neil Francis Lennon's chess board has, are we?

He plays draughts. That's my point.

Check, mate?

[Iain G]

There must have been another reason for the bizarre team selections. Genuinely thought he was trying to get himself sacked. He completely lost the plot.

Yeah, he isn't as good as his fanclub make him out to be, just another failed Hibs manager to add to the pile.

Managed to get a tune out of the team for a while but when the wheels fell off he failed to rescue the situation and went down in flames.

[matty_f]

I don't believe that Lennon engineered his departure from Hibs in January 2019 because a vacancy might possibly arise at some point before the end of the 20/21 season after which Roger's contract at Celtic would have come to a natural end.

I also don't believe that Lennon would do so in order to sign a 3 month contract with Celtic with no guarantee of anything else. And I don't believe that Celtic would only offer a 3 month contract if their real intention was to give him 12 months rolling.

I also don't believe that Celtic would have tapped him up to return after the run of results he had at Hibs, not to mention his erratic behaviour.

I do believe, however, he was a convenient stop gap for a team clear at the top of the league who were taken unawares by Rogers' sudden departure. He kept Celtic at the top and went on to win the Cup so was rewarded with 12 months rolling.

I didn’t believe it all either until it happened. I don’t expect anything i say will change your mind and I’m absolutely fine with that. There’s no way for me to evidence it and I’ve said why i have the opinion i have on it, other opinions are just as valid. No biggie. 👍

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Quoting this rather than the extended version 😁

I’m generally a big believer in Occam’s Razor and so instinctively I’m inclined to side with your perspective.

However, on this occasion i had conversations well in advance of Lennon’s exit where people (for want of a better expression here, but i know it sounds pretentious as anything) “close to” Celtic, Lennon and Hibs - not the sane person but people who fit either one or multiple categories who openly discussed the situation.

Rogers was always leaving, that it was Leicester was just down to timing, his agent had been pushing to get him back to the EPL and there were several interested clubs therefore Lennon did not need to know in advance Leicester were going to sack their manager. The vacancy was always going to arise.

Celtic could pay compensation, this is true. They could have bought John McGinn as well but you might remember why they didn’t.

The chat at the time, and I can only go with what i was told, was that it wouldn’t hurt Lennon’s chances if he was immediately available and there was no possibility of Hibs being difficult.

I can only emphasise the timeline here that this was before the Kamberi fall out and well before Rogers’ exit from Celtic.

So i agree, in your description of events it’s absurd. The flip side though, is that a number of folk - and I’m sure there are others on here that will have heard similar if I did - would have had to have been playing 5D chess to get that storyline moving in a way that was almost exactly how it transpired months before it did.

Occam’s razor applied to that shifts the perspective.

“There’s only one winner in the game of love chess”…

[needing to look up “Occam’s razor” - wonderin is it a smaller version of the sword of Damocles?]

[Spike Mandela]

Think we need to let all the Lennon chat go. He’s yesterday’s man.

[matty_f]

Think we need to let all the Lennon chat go. He’s yesterday’s man.

Agreed

[Iain G]

“There’s only one winner in the game of love chess”…

[needing to look up “Occam’s razor” - wonderin is it a smaller version of the sword of Damocles?]

Invented by King C. Occam in 1901 in Boston, Massachusetts. The best that Hibs can get.

[nonshinyfinish]

Invented by King C. Occam in 1901 in Boston, Massachusetts. The best that Hibs can get.

Our go-to is surely Hanlon's razor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

[Iain G]

Our go-to is surely Hanlon's razor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

"Hanlon's Razor" new from Manscaping, works 90% of the time then fails to cut your baw(hair) out...

[Viva_Palmeiras]

"Hanlon's Razor" new from Manscaping, works 90% of the time then fails to cut your baw(hair) out...

Bravo fellas ! :)

[WhileTheChief..]

Think we need to let all the Lennon chat go. He’s yesterday’s man.

He's favourite for the job no?

That makes it worthy of discussion whether you're in favour of him returning or not.

[badabing67]

Quoting this rather than the extended version ��

I’m generally a big believer in Occam’s Razor and so instinctively I’m inclined to side with your perspective.

However, on this occasion i had conversations well in advance of Lennon’s exit where people (for want of a better expression here, but i know it sounds pretentious as anything) “close to” Celtic, Lennon and Hibs - not the sane person but people who fit either one or multiple categories who openly discussed the situation.

Rogers was always leaving, that it was Leicester was just down to timing, his agent had been pushing to get him back to the EPL and there were several interested clubs therefore Lennon did not need to know in advance Leicester were going to sack their manager. The vacancy was always going to arise.

Celtic could pay compensation, this is true. They could have bought John McGinn as well but you might remember why they didn’t.

The chat at the time, and I can only go with what i was told, was that it wouldn’t hurt Lennon’s chances if he was immediately available and there was no possibility of Hibs being difficult.

I can only emphasise the timeline here that this was before the Kamberi fall out and well before Rogers’ exit from Celtic.

So i agree, in your description of events it’s absurd. The flip side though, is that a number of folk - and I’m sure there are others on here that will have heard similar if I did - would have had to have been playing 5D chess to get that storyline moving in a way that was almost exactly how it transpired months before it did.

Occam’s razor applied to that shifts the perspective.


No I don't know why they didn't buy John McGinn..... That is the biggest mystery in Scottish football to me. Considering SJM's family connection to that club. That has got to be one of the biggest mistakes that Celtic have made. As i remember it they offered £2.25m rising to £2.5m for McGinn and wouldn't budget for weeks. Lennon wanted Christie in a cash plus player deal. But Celtic stuck with the £2.5m offer and Villa came in and offered £2.75m that's all I know. And of course now Aberdeen get there loan deals.

[Hibbyradge]

He's favourite for the job no?

That makes it worthy of discussion whether you're in favour of him returning or not.

Scott Brown is favourite with BV.

[matty_f]

No I don't know why they didn't buy John McGinn..... That is the biggest mystery in Scottish football to me. Considering SJM's family connection to that club. That has got to be one of the biggest mistakes that Celtic have made. As i remember it they offered £2.25m rising to £2.5m for McGinn and wouldn't budget for weeks. Lennon wanted Christie in a cash plus player deal. But Celtic stuck with the £2.5m offer and Villa came in and offered £2.75m that's all I know. And of course now Aberdeen get there loan deals.

Celtic wouldn't pay what we wanted. Simple as that. They had the money but didn't want to spend it. Which is their right, I suppose!

[badabing67]

Celtic wouldn't pay what we wanted. Simple as that. They had the money but didn't want to spend it. Which is their right, I suppose!


Was genuinely expecting something much juicer than that...... Serves them right

[Dmas]

No way Celtic accept the appointment of lennon being hibs manager in 8th position in the league, a jobless Neil Lennon stepping in to save the day is a different sell for Celtic board, the suspension and all that other nonsense is just the usual NL rollercoaster, the tell in the whole thing is he walked no fight no noise because he knew he was on his way back to Celtic park and any spat with LD didn’t matter to him any longer

[A Hi-Bee]

Hibs, like all other teams are a selling club, if we have a player worth selling then he will go in the end, this would be seen as a stepping stone to better things. Why would it be any different if we happen to have a good manager?

[DIXIHIBS]

I initially thought it would be good to get Lennon back and create a buzz about the place again which has been sadly lacking in recent years, but what we really need is stability. He arrived after the cup win and tapped into the positivity. Now we have just bumped 3 managers in fairly quick time and going back to possibly more instability...nah. He's had his time...someone else please.

[Eyrie]

Celtic wouldn't pay what we wanted. Simple as that. They had the money but didn't want to spend it. Which is their right, I suppose!

Wasn't that the summer they spent £2m on disco lights?

[MWHIBBIES]

Didn't work his ticket. Was correctly binned by Hibs are signing a load of ***** players to replace the good ones Stubbs got.

[Heisenberg]

It's more his sketchy managerial record that puts me off rather than him working his ticket.

For a serial winner who doesn't ever accept losing he's got some questionable results on his CV. 10/11 - 2nd to Rangers in the league, lost LC final to Rangers. 11/12 - lost LC final to Kilmarnock, lost SC semi final to Hearts. 12/13 - lost LC semi final to St Mirren. 13/14 - Lost in LC 3rd round to Morton and SC 5th round to Aberdeen. 16/17 - Lost to Queen of the South in the LC 2nd round. 17/18 - Lost to Hearts in the SC 4th round. 18/19 - Lost to Aberdeen in the LC QF, 2 wins in 14 at the time he was sacked. 20/21 - 2nd to Rangers in the league and lost to Ross County in the LC 3rd round.

I liked Lennon for a long time when he was here but he has as many question marks about him as almost all the other names linked. I'd argue he was the right man at the right time to drag us out the Championship but he has potential disaster written all over him this time around.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. I’m fairly confident he won’t be getting the job anyway.

[IberianHibernian]

Didn't work his ticket. Was correctly binned by Hibs are signing a load of ***** players to replace the good ones Stubbs got.He must have signed some good players if we were such an exciting team to watch in spring 2018 2 years after he took over . 2018 team had several changes from team which did well in cups but failed in league 2 years before .

[LewysGot2]

We saw quite a dramatic upturn in results when Lennon left did we not? Hecky managed to salvage top 6 when Lennon had us 8th and going down the way. Remember thinking a weight had been lifted off the players when he left. It had become the Neil Lennon show and all a bit of a farce in the end.

Yup. All had become pretty unsavoury.

Tynecastle and the subsequent going AWOL. His irrational outbursts and the falling out with key folk inside the club. Senior players have since alluded to him having lost the respect of the body of the Kirk, especially the more professional and dedicated members of the team in his dealings with Efe and Stokes. Let them come and go as they pleased, gave them so much rope they did eventually hang themselves and backed him into a corner where he couldn’t ignore their unprofessional behaviour any more. SDG, Darren, Hanlon, Boyle and Stevenson were all witness to that period.

I still remember to this day heading to Paisley the weekend he was/wasn’t removed. Diaz and SDG took the team and circled the wagon. The siege mentality was palpable that day. They circled the wagons and lifted spirits. It must have been a relief after weeks of a three ringed circus.

[MWHIBBIES]

He must have signed some good players if we were such an exciting team to watch in spring 2018 2 years after he took over . 2018 team had several changes from team which did well in cups but failed in league 2 years before .

Did it?

He improved the goalie and 1 of the defenders with Ambrose and Rocky. Brilliant signings. Kamberi and MacLaren were brilliant. Had a great 4 months.

Gray, Boyle, McGregor, Hanlon, Stevenson, McGinn, McGeouch, Allan were all there already or signed by Stubbs previously. The midfield especially was key. He couldn't replace them when they left.

After this good spell, we were a bit hopeless.

[matty_f]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. I’m fairly confident he won’t be getting the job anyway.

Same here, to be honest.

[IberianHibernian]

Did it?

He improved the goalie and 1 of the defenders with Ambrose and Rocky. Brilliant signings. Kamberi and MacLaren were brilliant. Had a great 4 months.

Gray, Boyle, McGregor, Hanlon, Stevenson, McGinn, McGeouch, Allan were all there already or signed by Stubbs previously. The midfield especially was key. He couldn't replace them when they left.

After this good spell, we were a bit hopeless.Who would you have suggested he could have signed to replace McGinn and other midfielders ? Him or all the managers we`ve had since . Probably find Hearts and other bottom 10 teams in our league are also looking for talented midfield players too .

[MWHIBBIES]

Who would you have suggested he could have signed to replace McGinn and other midfielders ? Him or all the managers we`ve had since . Probably find Hearts and other bottom 10 teams in our league are also looking for talented midfield players too .

I'm a spark mate, not a football manager, that isnt my job.

[jacomo]

I've read a lot of people dismissing the prospect of Neil Lennon returning to manage Hibs arguing, in part, that he worked his ticket so he could join Celtic.

As convenient as it might be, that suggestion does stand up to critical examination.

Firstly, why would he have to be duplicitous? If Celtic had wanted him, no matter what we might have said, they'd just have taken him.

I read someone say it was to avoid Celtic paying us compensation. Lennon had just over a year of his contract left. Given that they received £9m in compensation from Leicester for Rodgers and his staff, anything Hibs were entitled to would have been peanuts in comparison.

So onto the 4D chess bit. Lennon was suspended on 25 January 2019. This means that he must have known before then that Leicester were going to sack Puel in 4 weeks time. 4 weeks during which Leicester had 4 or 5 games. What if they'd won them all?

Ok. Let's assume that somehow that was the case. Leicester would presumably have had to have approached Brendan Rodgers well before then in order to persuade him to leave Celtic and agree staff and terms etc etc. Clearly, if that had happened, Celtic would have had to have been kept in the dark.

So when did Celtic approach Lennon to tell him to work his ticket? It just doesn't add up.

The official explanation is far more plausible.

Puel was sacked after Leicester only managed one league win and one draw since the turn of the year.

Leicester have made a habit of replacing managers quickly and they moved for Rogers. At the time, Celtic were 8 points clear at the top of the league but they hadn't planned on Rogers leaving (Rogers had promised publicly to see out his contract, as he's done again btw) and because Lennon was available he was seen as a safe pair of hands and appointed until the end of the season. He did well and his contract was extended at the end of the season.

Unless you think Celtic only gave him 3 months to maintain the 4D illusion?

So, I understand not wanting him back, I have no strong feelings for any candidate, but the idea that he worked his ticket for the Celtic job is just another conspiracy theory.


Bless your pure heart.

[Slim Shady]

There must have been another reason for the bizarre team selections. Genuinely thought he was trying to get himself sacked. He completely lost the plot.

There was. Cleary.

Wonder if he was trying to prove a point to the board, who refused to sanction any transfers he wanted.

Was lucky enough to play golf with him when he was at Hibs. The calibre of player he had lined up and was point blank refused was frightening.

He also commented at that time - he wouldn’t be leaving until he filled the corners of Easter Road!!

[Callum_62]

There was. Cleary.

Wonder if he was trying to prove a point to the board, who refused to sanction any transfers he wanted.

Was lucky enough to play golf with him when he was at Hibs. The calibre of player he had lined up and was point blank refused was frightening.

He also commented at that time - he wouldn’t be leaving until he filled the corners of Easter Road!!Was the calibre of player too expensive for us though?

If so, it's pointless

Now we seem to have loosened the purse strings though?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Slim Shady]

Was the calibre of player too expensive for us though?

If so, it's pointless

Now we seem to have loosened the purse strings though?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

No. Two of them were promising young players who have now made the grade in EPL.

Why weren’t they sanctioned.

That can only be explained by Rod or NL good mates (Chris Sutton & John Hartson) have tried to explain this in their columns when he was sacked!

[Callum_62]

No. Two of them were promising young players who have now made the grade in EPL.

Why weren’t they sanctioned.

That can only be explained by Rod or NL good mates (Chris Sutton & John Hartson) have tried to explain this in their columns when he was sacked!Who were the players?

They will be out of our league now anyway if they are in the EPL

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[WeeRussell]

The whole ‘working his ticket’ thing is fairly new on me, I think.

I understood our form simply got out of hand, Lennon started acting like a tit (again) and we parted ways.

I found it quite amusing that Celtic then employed the manager that wasn’t good enough for us by the end of his stint. Even more so when he/they made an arse of the following season!

[Hibbyradge]

Bless your pure heart.

Ach, I've had my moments.

To be honest, if he's that much of a genius at reading people and predicting their actions along with the future results of a football club who had won the English Premier League less than 3 years earlier, then we should be begging him to return.

[The Harp Awakes]

I've read a lot of people dismissing the prospect of Neil Lennon returning to manage Hibs arguing, in part, that he worked his ticket so he could join Celtic.

As convenient as it might be, that suggestion does stand up to critical examination.

Firstly, why would he have to be duplicitous? If Celtic had wanted him, no matter what we might have said, they'd just have taken him.

I read someone say it was to avoid Celtic paying us compensation. Lennon had just over a year of his contract left. Given that they received £9m in compensation from Leicester for Rodgers and his staff, anything Hibs were entitled to would have been peanuts in comparison.

So onto the 4D chess bit. Lennon was suspended on 25 January 2019. This means that he must have known before then that Leicester were going to sack Puel in 4 weeks time. 4 weeks during which Leicester had 4 or 5 games. What if they'd won them all?

Ok. Let's assume that somehow that was the case. Leicester would presumably have had to have approached Brendan Rodgers well before then in order to persuade him to leave Celtic and agree staff and terms etc etc. Clearly, if that had happened, Celtic would have had to have been kept in the dark.

So when did Celtic approach Lennon to tell him to work his ticket? It just doesn't add up.

The official explanation is far more plausible.

Puel was sacked after Leicester only managed one league win and one draw since the turn of the year.

Leicester have made a habit of replacing managers quickly and they moved for Rogers. At the time, Celtic were 8 points clear at the top of the league but they hadn't planned on Rogers leaving (Rogers had promised publicly to see out his contract, as he's done again btw) and because Lennon was available he was seen as a safe pair of hands and appointed until the end of the season. He did well and his contract was extended at the end of the season.

Unless you think Celtic only gave him 3 months to maintain the 4D illusion?

So, I understand not wanting him back, I have no strong feelings for any candidate, but the idea that he worked his ticket for the Celtic job is just another conspiracy theory.

Thank you sir. You have set out, in much more eloquent words than I could, what I have always thought. Even if you believe in the mythical chess stuff, the fact that he wants to come back to us says it all.

[Hibbyradge]

The whole ‘working his ticket’ thing is fairly new on me, I think.

I understood our form simply got out of hand, Lennon started acting like a tit (again) and we parted ways.

I found it quite amusing that Celtic then employed the manager that wasn’t good enough for us by the end of his stint. Even more so when he/they made an arse of the following season!

Could be worse.

[WeeRussell]

Could be worse.

You’re weird.

[Hibbyradge]

You’re weird.

Did you notice my "oddball" post was taken seriously? :greengrin

[sadtom]

I've read a lot of people dismissing the prospect of Neil Lennon returning to manage Hibs arguing, in part, that he worked his ticket so he could join Celtic.

As convenient as it might be, that suggestion does stand up to critical examination.

Firstly, why would he have to be duplicitous? If Celtic had wanted him, no matter what we might have said, they'd just have taken him.

I read someone say it was to avoid Celtic paying us compensation. Lennon had just over a year of his contract left. Given that they received £9m in compensation from Leicester for Rodgers and his staff, anything Hibs were entitled to would have been peanuts in comparison.

So onto the 4D chess bit. Lennon was suspended on 25 January 2019. This means that he must have known before then that Leicester were going to sack Puel in 4 weeks time. 4 weeks during which Leicester had 4 or 5 games. What if they'd won them all?

Ok. Let's assume that somehow that was the case. Leicester would presumably have had to have approached Brendan Rodgers well before then in order to persuade him to leave Celtic and agree staff and terms etc etc. Clearly, if that had happened, Celtic would have had to have been kept in the dark.

So when did Celtic approach Lennon to tell him to work his ticket? It just doesn't add up.

The official explanation is far more plausible.

Puel was sacked after Leicester only managed one league win and one draw since the turn of the year.

Leicester have made a habit of replacing managers quickly and they moved for Rogers. At the time, Celtic were 8 points clear at the top of the league but they hadn't planned on Rogers leaving (Rogers had promised publicly to see out his contract, as he's done again btw) and because Lennon was available he was seen as a safe pair of hands and appointed until the end of the season. He did well and his contract was extended at the end of the season.

Unless you think Celtic only gave him 3 months to maintain the 4D illusion?

So, I understand not wanting him back, I have no strong feelings for any candidate, but the idea that he worked his ticket for the Celtic job is just another conspiracy theory.

Correct. The idea that he worked his ticket is tinfoil hat drivel.
He’d have put Nostradamus to shame being able to predict the actions of several other parties at least a month before they happened. And as you said what if Leicester had gone on a winning run in the meantime.

I think it’s also worth noting that Parker also lost his job. And to my knowledge he didn’t walk into an ‘upgrade’. Would Lennon have done that to his colleague/friend? Would Parker not have been rightfully pissed off and said something? If that was true and it became known in the small circle that is coaches/managers it could do real damage to anyone’s reputation.

By all accounts Lennon also had a family holiday booked to Dubai, which I understand he had to pull the plug on when he got offered the Celtc job. At the time I recall someone state that he did that deliberately to help cover his tracks!? :rolleyes: Jesus H Christ! It’s spy novel nonsense. Flat earth fantasy.
By all means if you have footballing reasons for preferring another candidate then fine but let’s stop this garbage that he engaged in some sort of cloak and dagger subterfuge. Leave that sort of crap to the Qanon weirdo’s.

There are a few names being mentioned that I’d be happy with. Lennon is one of them. I feel that he has unfinished business.
We had a bit of a swagger and a snarl and for the most part, we would go to places like parkhead and ibrox looking to pick a fight. And I for one F****** LOVED IT!

[tamig]

I couldn’t really care and have never subscribed to the “worked his ticket” conspiracy. I just don’t want him back at ER as I just don’t think he’d improve us. His Celtic return was disastrous and he crashed and burned spectacularly with us.

[Donegal Hibby]

I couldn’t really care and have never subscribed to the “worked his ticket” conspiracy. I just don’t want him back at ER as I just don’t think he’d improve us. His Celtic return was disastrous and he crashed and burned spectacularly with us.

If he doesn't crash and burn it's a explosion 💥

[jacomo]

Ach, I've had my moments.

To be honest, if he's that much of a genius at reading people and predicting their actions along with the future results of a football club who had won the English Premier League less than 3 years earlier, then we should be begging him to return.


You think Leicester is the key to this story. It isn’t.

Lennon got a sniff that Rodgers wasn’t happy at Celtc (partly due to McGinn debacle) and realised that making himself available for hire again wouldn’t do him any harm.

There is blame on both sides for him and LD then falling out, but how hard did Lennon work to try and fix the situation?

[Steve20]

I think Lennon would be a decent appointment, but I don't think he'll take the job in the end despite what he said the other day.

[The Modfather]

Who would you have suggested he could have signed to replace McGinn and other midfielders ? Him or all the managers we`ve had since . Probably find Hearts and other bottom 10 teams in our league are also looking for talented midfield players too .

Lewis Ferguson, joined Aberdeen the same window as Super John left. Glen Kamara was at Dundee until the following summer. Turnbull & Campbell were still at Motherwell. Ali McCann was still at St Johnstone.

Difficult to know how obtainable any of them were other than Ferguson, and appreciate some are suggested now with hindsight rather than in 2018. However there’s been a number of good midfielders gone on to bigger things in our league since McGinn who weren’t wholly unrealistic with the kind of fees we now pay.

[Libby Hibby]

I couldn’t really care and have never subscribed to the “worked his ticket” conspiracy. I just don’t want him back at ER as I just don’t think he’d improve us. His Celtic return was disastrous and he crashed and burned spectacularly with us.

I’m sorry, he’d instantly improve us for how long is another matter.

If it is Lennon, we’ll see a totally different attitude to winning than we have done over the last few years or so. That’s what i want most in the new appointment, someone that really cares about results, someone who will be passionate and someone who can really wynd things up.

We’ve been so passive, easy to play against and quite frankly boring under Ross, Maloney and Johnson. It won’t be any of these under Lennon.

As for ‘working his ticket’ I’m not sure he was. The fall out with Dempster didn’t help however, I’m certain he knew that Rodgers would be away at Celtic at end of the season, so being out of work would’ve helped him but no one knew Rodgers was going to leave when he did which makes the Whole situation that panned out as being contrived nonsensical.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Lewis Ferguson, joined Aberdeen the same window as Super John left. Glen Kamara was at Dundee until the following summer. Turnbull & Campbell were still at Motherwell. Ali McCann was still at St Johnstone.

Difficult to know how obtainable any of them were other than Ferguson, and appreciate some are suggested now with hindsight rather than in 2018. However there’s been a number of good midfielders gone on to bigger things in our league since McGinn who weren’t wholly unrealistic with the kind of fees we now pay.

:agree:

You also had Greg Docherty at Hamilton who left the same summer but a bit of succession planning could have seen us go for him in the January before hand.

There’s been loads of good midfield players in Scotland and I’d suspect we’d have been able to afford all of them at some point.

[Smartie]

I think Lennon would be a decent appointment, but I don't think he'll take the job in the end despite what he said the other day.

I agree.

It’s easy for him to say he’d be interested but I only see him being interested if his player budget was something we were never, ever going to pay.

In the immediate aftermath we’ll get the usual articles from his pals about Hibs not being able to match his vision and ambition for the club.

[easty]

Lewis Ferguson, joined Aberdeen the same window as Super John left. Glen Kamara was at Dundee until the following summer. Turnbull & Campbell were still at Motherwell. Ali McCann was still at St Johnstone.

Difficult to know how obtainable any of them were other than Ferguson, and appreciate some are suggested now with hindsight rather than in 2018. However there’s been a number of good midfielders gone on to bigger things in our league since McGinn who weren’t wholly unrealistic with the kind of fees we now pay.

When McGinn left us Lewis Ferguson had only played 14 games for Hamilton and had already signed for Aberdeen. Turnbull had only played 3 games for Motherwell. McCann, 4 games at St Johnstone.

Campbell and Kamara would’ve been good signings.

[Slim Shady]

Who would you have suggested he could have signed to replace McGinn and other midfielders ? Him or all the managers we`ve had since . Probably find Hearts and other bottom 10 teams in our league are also looking for talented midfield players too .

One of them was Ryan Christie

[matty_f]

I’m sorry, he’d instantly improve us for how long is another matter.

If it is Lennon, we’ll see a totally different attitude to winning than we have done over the last few years or so. That’s what i want most in the new appointment, someone that really cares about results, someone who will be passionate and someone who can really wynd things up.

We’ve been so passive, easy to play against and quite frankly boring under Ross, Maloney and Johnson. It won’t be any of these under Lennon.

As for ‘working his ticket’ I’m not sure he was. The fall out with Dempster didn’t help however, I’m certain he knew that Rodgers would be away at Celtic at end of the season, so being out of work would’ve helped him but no one knew Rodgers was going to leave when he did which makes the Whole situation that panned out as being contrived nonsensical.

It would have been nice to have seen more if his attitude to winning the first time he was here. He drew 14 games in the Championship and could barely buy a win in the run up to his exit, by which time the football was awful to watch.

There were some brilliant times under Lennon but he was blessed with some cracking players, particularly McGinn. After he left the wheels started to come off.

[Since452]

It's true what they say about rose tinted glasses. It's much easier to remember the good moments than the bad. That Championship season was chronic. So was his second season in the top flight. He wouldn't be taking over the Scottish cup winners this time, he'd be taking over a team fairly comfortably beaten by St Mirren, Motherwell and Livingston. Disaster all over it.

[Hiber-nation]

The Championship winning season was nowhere near as bad as folk are making out. His signings were the main problem for me.

[WeeRussell]

Did you notice my "oddball" post was taken seriously? :greengrin

I did 😁.. refrained from commenting as sometimes it’s not worth getting involved. Even for Brian!

[MWHIBBIES]

The Championship winning season was nowhere near as bad as folk are making out. His signings were the main problem for me.

Agreed. Went to all 36 games in the league that season. We were good, and always going to win it.

Would've been easier but we were robbed many times by refs. Both Raith away games were dreadful refereeing performances.

[WeeRussell]

The Championship winning season was nowhere near as bad as folk are making out. His signings were the main problem for me.

It was good in the sense we did the job and won the league.

But it was undoubtedly as pish to watch as I’ve seen us in the championship. Having McGinn and Cummings’ goals were enough. That season led to folk pretending Grant Holt was some sort of genius for not scoring goals and telling others they don’t know football if they can’t see it.

It was also another example of Lennon picking on our top-scoring striker to try and make an example of him when things were going well for the lad.

Main thing I take issue with is folk comparing it favourably to Stubbs’ efforts (albeit there were faults in those failed attempts), when in reality Lennon came in and we looked worse but went up with a recently relegated Dundee United our only title rivals.

Having said that, it was about getting promoted and we did that. We also kicked on and had a good start to life back in the top league, before things went downhill as we started to lose the team and culture Stubbs put in place.

[Hibbyradge]

You think Leicester is the key to this story. It isn’t.

Lennon got a sniff that Rodgers wasn’t happy at Celtc (partly due to McGinn debacle) and realised that making himself available for hire again wouldn’t do him any harm.

There is blame on both sides for him and LD then falling out, but how hard did Lennon work to try and fix the situation?

I don't believe Lennon would leave Hibs to sit without a job for an undetermined period just in case Rogers got headhunted.

Rogers who had signed an extension to his contract less than two years previously.

And the reason for him going without a salary for however long it took, was to save Celtic a bit of compensation?

Is there no end to this man's selflessness?

By the way, I'm not making a case for his return. I can see positives if he does come back, but I think I see more problems. I just think the "working his ticket" stuff is nonsense.

[KWJ]

Not sure if working his ticket is exactly right but he certainly didn't seem as up for it as before.

I think he was frustrated with Kamberi and probably some of the other players and he didn't handle it well. Pure speculation but I don't think he had the same drive as he did when he walked in the door or his methods just began to wear thin with the players and had less of an impact. He struggled when he went to Celtic too mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XJEkgN8P-o I think this is his last post match interview with us and he doesn't look as dejected as I remember at the time but he's still throwing the attacking players under the bus, which Johnson was criticised for, and you can see from the comments that it was like he didn't have the answers with rotated teams and players out of position. He talks about Porteous getting injured again in this match which reminded me of the game he kept him on when he was clearly struggling.

He's a step backwards for me and definitely not the answer. Again to hark back to Johnson, folk say he didn't get Hibs or show the fans enough respect. I think with some of Lennon's actions he disrespected the fans and the club.

Fresh blood please who will give there all throughout their tenure and appreciate being at this famous club.

[Hibbyradge]

It would have been nice to have seen more if his attitude to winning the first time he was here. He drew 14 games in the Championship and could barely buy a win in the run up to his exit, by which time the football was awful to watch.

There were some brilliant times under Lennon but he was blessed with some cracking players, particularly McGinn. After he left the wheels started to come off.

Yes, and that's what worries me about a possible return.

Having said that, which one of the names is going to give us Mowbrayesque football with the Jack Ross ability to get us to cup finals?

[BoomtownHibees]

Yes, and that's what worries me about a possible return.

Having said that, which one of the names is going to give us Mowbrayesque football with Jack Ross ability to get us to cup finals?

Jack Mowbray

[Northernhibee]

Having said that, which one of the names is going to give us Mowbrayesque football with Jack Ross ability to get us to cup finals?

Shaft?

[Hibbyradge]

Shaft?

No thanks. I've just put one out.

[Smartie]

Agreed. Went to all 36 games in the league that season. We were good, and always going to win it.

Would've been easier but we were robbed many times by refs. Both Raith away games were dreadful refereeing performances.

We’re you confident when we lost at Tannadice around Christmas time?

He got the job done, I quite enjoyed it and still think he deserves credit. It can be a graveyard league if you approach it wrong.

[matty_f]

We’re you confident when we lost at Tannadice around Christmas time?

He got the job done, I quite enjoyed it and still think he deserves credit. It can be a graveyard league if you approach it wrong.

17/9/16 Hibs 1 Ayr 2
24/9/16 QotS 0 Hibs 0
2/10/16 Hibs 1 Dundee Utd 1
15/10/16 Raith 0 Hibs 0

A run of results that would have folk calling for the manager's head now.

[jacomo]

I don't believe Lennon would leave Hibs to sit without a job for an undetermined period just in case Rogers got headhunted.

Rogers who had signed an extension to his contract less than two years previously.

And the reason for him going without a salary for however long it took, was to save Celtic a bit of compensation?

Is there no end to this man's selflessness?

By the way, I'm not making a case for his return. I can see positives if he does come back, but I think I see more problems. I just think the "working his ticket" stuff is nonsense.


I know you do. But the Leicester situation doesn’t make your case, even though you very diligently laid out the timeline above.

We don’t see what’s happening behind closed doors. And what was happening was that Rodgers was pissed off and looking for a job in the EPL, and Lennon remained close with the hierarchy there.

The rest is just… coincidence?

:wink:

[WhileTheChief..]

We’re you confident when we lost at Tannadice around Christmas time?

He got the job done, I quite enjoyed it and still think he deserves credit. It can be a graveyard league if you approach it wrong.

We thumped Utd 3-0 at ER in Dec or Jan then never looked back.

Winning the league was never in doubt that season.

[jacomo]

We thumped Utd 3-0 at ER in Dec or Jan then never looked back.

Winning the league was never in doubt that season.


The week before, Dundee Utd went top of the league and a number of Hibs fans lost their minds!

As you say though, that result put us back in top spot and we never relinquished it.

[KWJ]

We thumped Utd 3-0 at ER in Dec or Jan then never looked back.

Winning the league was never in doubt that season.

Bring back Chris Humphrey!

[Smartie]

17/9/16 Hibs 1 Ayr 2
24/9/16 QotS 0 Hibs 0
2/10/16 Hibs 1 Dundee Utd 1
15/10/16 Raith 0 Hibs 0

A run of results that would have folk calling for the manager's head now.

Sure.

A manager who went on to achieve his objective that season and get more points than the champions of Scotland during the second half of the next season.

I don't think we should read too much into the threshold for fans calling for the manager's head.

I also think that Lennon might well have turned the season when it all went wrong for him / us around, had he been given time with the much needed players Hecky got to start with when he came in. McNulty and Omeonga were very useful for us that season.

By no means am I 100% sold on Lennon. I just thing we need to take the full picture into account with him, the grimly awful with the astonishingly brilliant and everything in between.

[Smartie]

We thumped Utd 3-0 at ER in Dec or Jan then never looked back.

Winning the league was never in doubt that season.

It was never in doubt from that thumping onwards.

There were plenty of doubts prior to that, even after an excellent first 5 league games.

[KWJ]

Sure.

A manager who went on to achieve his objective that season and get more points than the champions of Scotland during the second half of the next season.

I don't think we should read too much into the threshold for fans calling for the manager's head.

I also think that Lennon might well have turned the season when it all went wrong for him / us around, had he been given time with the much needed players Hecky got to start with when he came in. McNulty and Omeonga were very useful for us that season.

By no means am I 100% sold on Lennon. I just thing we need to take the full picture into account with him, the grimly awful with the astonishingly brilliant and everything in between.

It's the level of that though. One thing when it's restricted to the forums, socials and the odd disgruntled fan screaming at clouds in the stand. When it gets to Saturday's level or Ross at Livingston then the board clearly feel the need to act. Hopefully we stay semi sensible and don't start calling for the manager to go within the ground after 1 bad month. What should that threshold be? Tough call.

[Hibbyradge]

I know you do. But the Leicester situation doesn’t make your case, even though you very diligently laid out the timeline above.

We don’t see what’s happening behind closed doors. And what was happening was that Rodgers was pissed off and looking for a job in the EPL, and Lennon remained close with the hierarchy there.

The rest is just… coincidence?

:wink:

This is like a Trump supporter trying to convince someone that, despite all the evidence, the election was stolen. :greengrin

Your take on things is based on made up scenarios which defy logic.

Lennon wasn't going to sit idle and unpaid in case Rogers got headhunted at some point in the future. I have never heard anything to make me think he was unhappy at Celtic unless it's been as part of the complicated Lennon conspiracy.

He had signed a 4 year contract just before the start of the previous season and his team were pishing the league again.

None of it stands up to scrutiny, but I guess some people believe, or need to believe, that the moon lamdings were faked and that the earth was flat so I realise we're not going to agree.

I'll leave it there. From being neutral about it, I've gone off the idea of his return now anyway, so the discussion must have affected me subconsciously! :hilarious

[matty_f]

This is like a Trump supporter trying to convince someone that, despite all the evidence, the election was stolen. :greengrin

Your take on things is based on made up scenarios which defy logic.

Lennon wasn't going to sit idle and unpaid in case Rogers got headhunted at some point in the future. I have never heard anything to make me think he was unhappy at Celtic unless it's been as part of the complicated Lennon conspiracy.

He had signed a 4 year contract just before the start of the previous season and his team were pishing the league again.

None of it stands up to scrutiny, but I guess some people believe, or need to believe, that the moon lamdings were faked and that the earth was flat so I realise we're not going to agree.

I'll leave it there. From being neutral about it, I've gone off the idea of his return now anyway, so the discussion must have affected me subconsciously! :hilarious

I think it's a bit harsh to liken it to faked moon landings, Radge. I've explained why I hold the view that I do and none of it is tin foil hat stuff and I'm as far removed from a conspiracy theorist as you're likely to get.

We've looked at the same situation with different evidence available to us and come to different conclusions. That's the sum of it.

[matty_f]

Sure.

A manager who went on to achieve his objective that season and get more points than the champions of Scotland during the second half of the next season.

I don't think we should read too much into the threshold for fans calling for the manager's head.

I also think that Lennon might well have turned the season when it all went wrong for him / us around, had he been given time with the much needed players Hecky got to start with when he came in. McNulty and Omeonga were very useful for us that season.

By no means am I 100% sold on Lennon. I just thing we need to take the full picture into account with him, the grimly awful with the astonishingly brilliant and everything in between.

It wasn't just those results, those were just cherry picked to highlight that we weren't this swashbuckling, cavalier, sweep all before us side under Lennon.

In fact, for a lot of his time it was very hard going, particularly in that final season.

[James Stephen]

This is like a Trump supporter trying to convince someone that, despite all the evidence, the election was stolen. :greengrin

Your take on things is based on made up scenarios which defy logic.

Lennon wasn't going to sit idle and unpaid in case Rogers got headhunted at some point in the future. I have never heard anything to make me think he was unhappy at Celtic unless it's been as part of the complicated Lennon conspiracy.

He had signed a 4 year contract just before the start of the previous season and his team were pishing the league again.

None of it stands up to scrutiny, but I guess some people believe, or need to believe, that the moon lamdings were faked and that the earth was flat so I realise we're not going to agree.

I'll leave it there. From being neutral about it, I've gone off the idea of his return now anyway, so the discussion must have affected me subconsciously! :hilarious

The story i heard at the time from close to the club was that Rodgers had been lined up to go to Leicester in the October (and there were press murmurings at the time about him leaving), and that Lenny was lined up to replace him at Celtic.

The Leicester owner then died in a helicopter crash and everything was put on hold. But through agents and i assume fitba circles, Hibs players were aware of this, hence his authority in the dressing room being undermined. Hibs form really tailed off around this time i think, as he lost the dressing room.

So the whole thing was arranged, then was paused for a few months. So if thats true, youre right that Lennon didnt see into the future, and didnt work his ticket, but youre wrong if you dont think that external factors played a big part, and his move to celtic was a big factor because it killed his authority and relationship with players and club, hence his increasingly erratic behaviour and the weird sacking/not sacking at the end.

[KWJ]

I wonder what the view would be on bringing back Lennon if his Hibs era had come to a more natural end with a few more bad results and him either resigning, being sacked or even just bought out by Celtic.

I don't think it'd change my opinion but maybe it'd move others either in support or against him returning.

[jacomo]

This is like a Trump supporter trying to convince someone that, despite all the evidence, the election was stolen. :greengrin

Your take on things is based on made up scenarios which defy logic.

Lennon wasn't going to sit idle and unpaid in case Rogers got headhunted at some point in the future. I have never heard anything to make me think he was unhappy at Celtic unless it's been as part of the complicated Lennon conspiracy.

He had signed a 4 year contract just before the start of the previous season and his team were pishing the league again.

None of it stands up to scrutiny, but I guess some people believe, or need to believe, that the moon lamdings were faked and that the earth was flat so I realise we're not going to agree.

I'll leave it there. From being neutral about it, I've gone off the idea of his return now anyway, so the discussion must have affected me subconsciously! :hilarious


Disagree away, but I’ve not made up a thing.

ps: if you didn’t hear that Rodgers was angling for another job, it doesn’t make make it untrue. There was a fall out from the McGinn debacle among other things, and it cost them 10 in a row.

[jacomo]

I think it's a bit harsh to liken it to faked moon landings, Radge. I've explained why I hold the view that I do and none of it is tin foil hat stuff and I'm as far removed from a conspiracy theorist as you're likely to get.

We've looked at the same situation with different evidence available to us and come to different conclusions. That's the sum of it.


Where is that tin foil hat emoji??

:greengrin

[tonyrougier123]

If it’s to be lennon needs to be a rolling one year contract. We need a manager on his toes not sitting by the fire with his shoes and socks off on a 4yr deal just mental!
Lennon needs to prove he can do the hibs gig well again.

[MWHIBBIES]

We’re you confident when we lost at Tannadice around Christmas time?

He got the job done, I quite enjoyed it and still think he deserves credit. It can be a graveyard league if you approach it wrong.

Absolutely. A very poor United side with a poor manager. Easily beat them to the title despite us having awful injuries all season.

[Centre Hawf]

It wasn't just those results, those were just cherry picked to highlight that we weren't this swashbuckling, cavalier, sweep all before us side under Lennon.

In fact, for a lot of his time it was very hard going, particularly in that final season.

I agree with this.

He got the job done in the end for us in the Championship but for a few spells we could look quite rotten and turgid, I don't think we were a better team under him that season than we were the year before despite getting promoted. Fast forward to the next season and we were false starting quite often or getting weird losses like 4-1 up at Aberdeen and 3-1 to Hamilton early on. Then he got what I think we can all agree was a majestic period where I don't think we lost a game from late January until he absolutely chucked it against Hearts that cost us second in mid May, I will concede that it was one of my absolute most favourite times to be a Hibs fan in my life. Then we lost our midfield three and we were absolutely turgid again for most of his final season.

I don't have faith that him coming back somehow recaptures anything like that 6 month spell, the other parts of his time at Hibs shows what we are likely looking at should he return, massive inconsistency. We just got rid of one manager for that very reason.

[Is It On....]

The working his ticket line, it was nonsense.

Losing the plot, behaving like a ****, bullying players, being tactically inept, not winning games. None of it was part of a masterplan on Lennon's part, it's just more like he couldn't handle the job by then.

Does behaving like a **** include the alleged behaviour towards our then CEO? No doubt his mate Chris Sutton will now be cheerleading for his return when at the time he was peddling the line "Neil Lennon is too big for Hibs". I don't want Neil Lennon or the toxic Steve Evans anywhere near our club.

[Smartie]

I wonder what the view would be on bringing back Lennon if his Hibs era had come to a more natural end with a few more bad results and him either resigning, being sacked or even just bought out by Celtic.

I don't think it'd change my opinion but maybe it'd move others either in support or against him returning.

Without wishing to excuse the utter crap that was the end of the Lennon era, I was (as usual) more convinced that we badly needed a couple of new players rather than a new manager.

Auntie’s baws territory again but I think he’d have improved our position. One transfer window to replace the midfield we’d lost was never going to be enough for anything other than the luckiest of managers.

Even now - with the transfer window drawing to a silent, whimpering close, we’re dicking about looking for a manager to go half a season with major personnel problems at CM and RB.

It’s not the way the saying goes but if you don’t give the workman the right tools then there’s only so good a job he’s going to be able to do.

[A Hi-Bee]

I agree with this.

He got the job done in the end for us in the Championship but for a few spells we could look quite rotten and turgid, I don't think we were a better team under him that season than we were the year before despite getting promoted. Fast forward to the next season and we were false starting quite often or getting weird losses like 4-1 up at Aberdeen and 3-1 to Hamilton early on. Then he got what I think we can all agree was a majestic period where I don't think we lost a game from late January until he absolutely chucked it against Hearts that cost us second in mid May, I will concede that it was one of my absolute most favourite times to be a Hibs fan in my life. Then we lost our midfield three and we were absolutely turgid again for most of his final season.

I don't have faith that him coming back somehow recaptures anything like that 6 month spell, the other parts of his time at Hibs shows what we are likely looking at should he return, massive inconsistency. We just got rid of one manager for that very reason.

Was that the Hertz game when we was cheated out of the result when Ollie Shaw scored a great near post goal that the so called ref never saw????
:nlgwa

[BILLYHIBS]

Was that the Hertz game when we was cheated out of the result when Ollie Shaw scored a great near post goal that the so called ref never saw????
:nlgwa

Nope the one where Potter out psyched Lenny causing him to change a winning team playing Brandon Barker upfront through the middle

We lost 2-1 to an average Hearts side costing us a high finish

[A Hi-Bee]

Nope the one where Potter out psyched Lenny causing him to change a winning team playing Brandon Barker upfront through the middle

We lost 2-1 to an average Hearts side costing us a high finish

Thanks, the old grey cells aint what they used to be, so what game was the one we was cheated when Ollies goal was well over. Was that the same season? was that the same game when all the sectarian sheite was getting flung at Lennon along wi coins etc, or am I imagining that one.

[BILLYHIBS]

Thanks, the old grey cells aint what they used to be, so what game was the one we was cheated when Ollies goal was well over. Was that the same season? was that the same game when all the sectarian sheite was getting flung at Lennon along wi coins etc, or am I imagining that one.

The phantom goal was 27/12/2017 in a 0-0 draw at Tiny

The coin throwing incident where it hit Lenny on the arm was another game IIRC

31/10/2018 0-0 Flo sent off

[The Tubs]

If they really did give him the job, you'd have to imagine Gray, McGregor, Hanlon and Stevenson would have been consulted and said that Lennon is really an all-right gadgie and never did the dirty on us. You'd imagine Dempster would get a call too.

If he were to get the job and this due diligence wasn't completely satisfied, you'd imagine there'd be even more unhappy faces around the club.

[blackpoolhibs]

Nope the one where Potter out psyched Lenny causing him to change a winning team playing Brandon Barker upfront through the middle

We lost 2-1 to an average Hearts side costing us a high finish
Aberdeen beat Celtic at Celtic park on the last day of the season, wouldnt have mattered even if we'd won at tynie, we were never getting 2nd.

[BILLYHIBS]

Aberdeen beat Celtic at Celtic park on the last day of the season, wouldnt have mattered even if we'd won at tynie, we were never getting 2nd.

That was why I said high finish

[A Hi-Bee]

The phantom goal was 27/12/2017 in a 0-0 draw at Tiny

The coin throwing incident where it hit Lenny on the arm was another game IIRC

31/10/2018 0-0 Flo sent off

Thanks Billy, just adds to the list of points we have had stolen against the gimps, would have made a difference at the end or not?

[blackpoolhibs]

That was why I said high finish
We finished high, not often we finish 4th?

[BILLYHIBS]

We finished high, not often we finish 4th?

If we had beaten the gimps at Tiny would not have needed to go so gung ho against the Hun and just concentrated on a win

Simples 😀

Shudda wudda cudda!

[Hibbyradge]

The story i heard at the time from close to the club was that Rodgers had been lined up to go to Leicester in the October (and there were press murmurings at the time about him leaving), and that Lenny was lined up to replace him at Celtic.

The Leicester owner then died in a helicopter crash and everything was put on hold. But through agents and i assume fitba circles, Hibs players were aware of this, hence his authority in the dressing room being undermined. Hibs form really tailed off around this time i think, as he lost the dressing room.

So the whole thing was arranged, then was paused for a few months. So if thats true, youre right that Lennon didnt see into the future, and didnt work his ticket, but youre wrong if you dont think that external factors played a big part, and his move to celtic was a big factor because it killed his authority and relationship with players and club, hence his increasingly erratic behaviour and the weird sacking/not sacking at the end.

I wonder why he was only given a short term contract followed by12; months rolling.

[blackpoolhibs]

If we had beaten the gimps at Tiny would not have needed to go so gung ho against the Hun and just concentrated on a win

Simples 😀

Shudda wudda cudda!
So you really meant 3rd when you said high.

[James Stephen]

I wonder why he was only given a short term contract followed by12; months rolling.

Presumably because he was seen as a safe but short term option

And Celtic didnt think that mid season was a good time to try and get the next long term guy

[BILLYHIBS]

So you really meant 3rd when you said high.

I knew it wasn’t second

Never said it was

[blackpoolhibs]

I knew it wasn’t second

Never said it was

No you said it cost us a high position, 4th place is a high position, we achieved a high position, we failed to get 3rd, but thats the case more often than not.

[BILLYHIBS]

No you said it cost us a high position, 4th place is a high position, we achieved a high position, we failed to get 3rd, but thats the case more often than not.

Third would have been nice as it is higher than fourth bearing in mind the financial rewards but not as good as second but that was unachievable

But we had to settle for fourth

Still happy

[Caversham Green]

This is like a Trump supporter trying to convince someone that, despite all the evidence, the election was stolen. :greengrin

Your take on things is based on made up scenarios which defy logic.

Lennon wasn't going to sit idle and unpaid in case Rogers got headhunted at some point in the future. I have never heard anything to make me think he was unhappy at Celtic unless it's been as part of the complicated Lennon conspiracy.

He had signed a 4 year contract just before the start of the previous season and his team were pishing the league again.

None of it stands up to scrutiny, but I guess some people believe, or need to believe, that the moon lamdings were faked and that the earth was flat so I realise we're not going to agree.

I'll leave it there. From being neutral about it, I've gone off the idea of his return now anyway, so the discussion must have affected me subconsciously! :hilarious

He wasn't unpaid though. Remember the cryptic statement? Something along the lines of he hasn't resigned and he hasn't been sacked. That meant he was on the payroll up until Celtc appointed him but wasn't doing anything for his money.

Maybe Leeann knew he'd be getting another job very soon.

[Hibbyradge]

Presumably because he was seen as a safe but short term option

And Celtic didnt think that mid season was a good time to try and get the next long term guy

But you said Lennon was lined up to replace Rogers. If that was the case, I'd have expected a much longer contract.

Sorry if I'm being thick, but it doesn't make sense.

[Hibbyradge]

He wasn't unpaid though. Remember the cryptic statement? Something along the lines of he hasn't resigned and he hasn't been sacked. That meant he was on the payroll up until Celtc appointed him but wasn't doing anything for his money.

Maybe Leeann knew he'd be getting another job very soon.

I don't think we were paying him. The cryptic statement was to save face and his CV.

[James Stephen]

But you said Lennon was lined up to replace Rogers. If that was the case, I'd have expected a much longer contract.

Sorry if I'm being thick, but it doesn't make sense.


Their manager was poached mid season, and they lined up a safe pair of hands as a replacement? Doesnt seem that far fetched to me, its quite common.

But then this is also the same board that lost out on the best Scottish midfield player of his generation for the sake of 500k.

[lyonhibs]

I don't think we were paying him. The cryptic statement was to save face and his CV.

Yeah.

"he's been given the heave ho for hurling abuse at his boss and winning 2 of the last 14 games but we've agreed not to specify that in exchange for a guarantee of no "LENNON REVEALS ALL" style interviews in the tabloids"

Soon to be repeated in about 12-18 months to some degree, if he's reappointed

[Danderhall Hibs]

Third would have been nice as it is higher than fourth bearing in mind the financial rewards but not as good as second but that was unachievable

But we had to settle for fourth

Still happy

Should’ve said “higher” and it would’ve blown the pedantry out the water.

Imagine if we’d won at Tiny though - we’d have been going for 2nd and the pressure on Aberdeen to win at Celtic might’ve just undone them. Who knows though - it was all blown away before we got the chance to finish highER.

[BILLYHIBS]

Should’ve said “higher” and it would’ve blown the pedantry out the water.

Imagine if we’d won at Tiny though - we’d have been going for 2nd and the pressure on Aberdeen to win at Celtic might’ve just undone them. Who knows though - it was all blown away before we got the chance to finish highER.

Looking back I / we expected to finish third

After the Aberdeen disaster Hearts away against an average Hearts side and The Rangers home looked a done deal without taking into account Lenny’s tinkering pre Tiny

Fourth did feel like a disappointment at the time but 5-5 versus The Rangers and that second half of the season gave us the best football since The Tornadoes

A lazy post from me I suppose but I never said second you are correct shudda said higher

Still a no from me re Lenny coming back his time at Hibs is firmly in the past

[Caversham Green]

I don't think we were paying him. The cryptic statement was to save face and his CV.

If he left without compensation that means he either resigned or was sacked for gross misconduct. The former is unlikely as the statement could simply have said he had resigned, if it was the latter the club should not even consider re-employing him, particularly since the misconduct allegedly consisted of bullying and (possibly homophobic) abuse directed at other employees. He has also been sacked from both subsequent jobs - not a good look.

I think he was on gardening leave.

BTW, my comment about Leeann knowing was tongue in cheek.