Are Hibs a poisoned chalice?

[SHODAN]

In my time following Hibs I've watched thirteen managers come and go, and I would say that only three have been an outright success.

Success: Mowbray, Stubbs, Lennon
Okay: Collins, Ross
Poor: Paatelainen, Hughes, Fenlon, Johnson
Awful: Calderwood, Butcher, Heckingbottom, Maloney, Johnson



Two managers (Collins and Stubbs) won us silverware; four (Collins, Fenlon, Stubbs, Ross) reached at least one final.
Just over half (Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Johnson) achieved a top six finish; just under half (Mowbray, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs, Lennon, Johnson) qualified us for Europe and two (Mowbray and Ross) achieved third.
The most damning statistic (and I'm sure you all know what I'm going to say): only one manager (Stubbs) had a winning record against Hearts. Three (Paatelainen, Lennon, Heckingbottom) had an even record, four (Collins, Fenlon, Butcher, Johnson) lost more than they won and thee complete losers (Hughes, Calderwood, Maloney) didn't win a single derby.


Taking the Hibs job is invariably hugely damaging for a prospective manager's career. Only two (Mowbray and Stubbs) were headhunted for another job; the rest resigned or were sacked. Those are atrocious odds.

[Nicho87]

And how many off the above managers have went on to bigger and better things

Mowbray - 100% yes
Hecky - strangely yes 100%
Lennon - got given the Celtic gig again 100% step up

The rest no chance

It says not to me the vast majority reached their peak with hibs and failed. Like the players if they do well other clubs will notice.

Vast majority didn’t.

[Dashing Bob S]

Don’t think we’re a poisoned chalice but our expectations of winning and doing it with style and panache, makes it a particularly hard job in Scottish football.

I wouldn’t fancy the job.

[Skol]

In my time following Hibs I've watched thirteen managers come and go, and I would say that only three have been an outright success.

Success: Mowbray, Stubbs, Lennon
Okay: Collins, Ross
Poor: Paatelainen, Hughes, Fenlon, Johnson
Awful: Calderwood, Butcher, Heckingbottom, Maloney, Johnson



Two managers (Collins and Stubbs) won us silverware; four (Collins, Fenlon, Stubbs, Ross) reached at least one final.
Just over half (Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Johnson) achieved a top six finish; just under half (Mowbray, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs, Lennon, Johnson) qualified us for Europe and two (Mowbray and Ross) achieved third.
The most damning statistic (and I'm sure you all know what I'm going to say): only one manager (Stubbs) had a winning record against Hearts. Three (Paatelainen, Lennon, Heckingbottom) had an even record, four (Collins, Fenlon, Butcher, Johnson) lost more than they won and thee complete losers (Hughes, Calderwood, Maloney) didn't win a single derby.


Taking the Hibs job is invariably hugely damaging for a prospective manager's career. Only two (Mowbray and Stubbs) were headhunted for another job; the rest resigned or were sacked. Those are atrocious odds.

It’s harsh on heckinbottom to have him in the awful category. The others stand out as awful. Johnson in twice and I also think he is one in the poor category.

We need to find someone a bit like Mowbray, but that is easier said that done. We almost achieved that with Stubbs. Failed miserably with maloney.

[HarpOnHibee]

Don’t think we’re a poisoned chalice but our expectations of winning and doing it with style and panache, makes it a particularly hard job in Scottish football.

I wouldn’t fancy the job.

Problem is, we aren't really doing either. We're struggling to win ugly and it's not like we're losing with style and panache. We're losing and we're losing ugly. And as usual, I suspect the issues run deeper than the managerial appointments. I don't buy into the "poisoned chalice" chat, because that makes it seem as if there's some unexplainable reason behind it all with no possible solutions. When in all likelihood the issues simply extended to levels above the manager himself.

[CB Hibs 68]

No

[NAE NOOKIE]

We're both a poisoned chalice and a massive opportunity.

Poisoned chalice because the vast majority of managers fail here and go into relative, if not total, obscurity.

Massive opportunity because unfulfilled though it has been since the glory days of the 50s this is a club with massive potential and the manager who finally fulfills it can write his ( or her ) own ticket. I like that lassie who is manager of Chelsea's women's team :greengrin

[brianmc]

We're the Scottish version of Spurs (not financially of course).

Perennial under achievers whose fans apparently demand their team play and win in a style befitting the teams of yesteryear - which it goes without saying NEVER happens.

Down south they describe snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as being "Spursy".

Up here the media and opposition fans delight in mocking our failures with a similarly disdainful phrase....

[Northernhibee]

Yeah. Jack Ross finishes third with decent cup runs and gets hounded out.

[Broken Gnome]

More money than most but not enough to put substantial distance between us and the rest - or we're just prone to badly mismanaged spending.

Paying for past mistakes and also circumstances outwith our control, which allows our main rivals to be more likely achievers of where we want/expect to be.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty difficult job.

[Wilson]

Yeah. Jack Ross finishes third with decent cup runs and gets hounded out.

Aye, but there's no point in getting to finals if you don't win them... or something.

[scm70nyd1973]

We're the Scottish version of Spurs (not financially of course).

Perennial under achievers whose fans apparently demand their team play and win in a style befitting the teams of yesteryear - which it goes without saying NEVER happens.

Down south they describe snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as being "Spursy".

Up here the media and opposition fans delight in mocking our failures with a similarly disdainful phrase....

Sadly we are too much like Everton thus far into the new season ☹️

[mayo hibee]

Anyone coming in has one hand tied behind their back with the way the club is run. Previously it was because we never spent any money, more recently it's because we've spent it badly and managers generally haven't had sufficient control over transfers. For that reason anyone good steers clear and we just go around in circles, rarely ever achieving the potential of the club.

[Since452]

No. We've splashed out more than Hearts and Aberdeen on players this summer. It's there for someone to get it right.

[HarpOnHibee]

No. We've splashed out more than Hearts and Aberdeen on players this summer. It's there for someone to get it right.

If only it was as simple as throwing more money around. Executives are not just there to chuck money at the manager, their own presence can effect the overall attitudes and culture of the club. Dempster was a prime example of this. She came in and took the bull by the horns and things changed pretty quickly from top to bottom. Since her departure, it's been a steady decline back to the problems of old.

[green day]

In answer to the post - No.

[Crab apple]

Nope. We've just not been very good at appointing successful managers!

[ScottB]

Realistically, few managers are ever going to last 2-3 seasons at a club like us. Either they fail in that timeframe or someone bigger takes them. We aren’t a poisoned chalice, we aren’t sacking managers for failing to win cups or anything unreasonable.

The task for the club is to get much better at identifying managers who will move on from us as successes.

[jacomo]

Yeah. Jack Ross finishes third with decent cup runs and gets hounded out.


In our recent history, this was the obvious and biggest mistake.

We have a noisy and volatile support, the people running the club need to have a plan and be very focused on it, not reacting to temporary or short term setbacks.

For Hibs to sack a manager for getting to a major cup final was an absolute joke. It worries me that many fans still don’t get that.

[Ryan91]

Are we a poisoned chalice? Yes. And No.

Yes - I think we as a fanbase are very demanding, we expect football of a certain style and we also expect to win whilst playing said style of football. We expect to be qualifying for Europe on a regular basis, and making deep runs in the cup competitions.

No - there's a solid ownership structure and the club is in a solid place financially, ownership has shown a willingness to invest in the squad in order to improve it. We as a fanbase don't expect to win a trophy every year, unlike a couple of other fanbases.

[jakedance]

Are expectations really all that high? I don’t even expect us to punch above our weight, but maybe averaging out at 5th in the league and winning our fair share of derbies would be a reasonable expectation. We’ve been generally mediocre for all but a few of the 30 odd seasons I’ve been going. The football side of the club is just badly run. Far too often we see smaller clubs coming to play us that are fitter, better motivated and better organised. Boils my piss man. Apologies for the rant.

[Baader]

We aren't a poisoned chalice. We've just appointed too many poor managers over the years.

[ScottB]

Ultimately, I suspect every manager to get something like this;

Stretch Goals
• Finish 3rd
• Win a cup
• Reach euro group stage

Goals
• Top 6
• Reach cup quarterfinals

Failure criteria
• Get knocked out of cups at first hurdle
• Embarrassing hammerings
• Bottom 6 finish

None of that is remotely unreasonable to me!

[Percy Vere]

We are suffering for the poor decision of sacking Jack Ross.
He should have stayed for the cup final (at least).
There was a poor run but that's always going to happen with Hibs.
He should have had enough credit in the bank to have been granted more time.
I thought that at the time but I could never have imagined how much that error would be compounded by subsequent managerial appointments.
Can't all be poor , there are other parts to this.
they are inheriting squads that haven't been gelling. Fans that are impatient for success, don't give time.
We need a solid appointment.
Not left field.
Michael O'Neil
Neil Lennon
Either would do me.

[greenpaper55]

Back in the day we chose Stein and ET , both managers were on the up and you could see they had a plan and if that plan failed there was a plan B that usually worked, Now we appoint re tread after re tread hoping that somehow they will suddenly get it right after previous failures ! Time to break that cycle and chose a young manager with a bit of experience who is ready to step up.

[ionahibby]

Yeah. Jack Ross finishes third with decent cup runs and gets hounded out.

Jack Ross lost a final and semi final against st Johnstone, his card was marked after that and should have been punted long before he did.

[Jones28]

Yeah. Jack Ross finishes third with decent cup runs and gets hounded out.

I wonder how those that chanted and demanded Ross be sacked at Livi that night are feeling now?

Nearly two years down the line and where are we?

It blows my mind and really is a case of being careful what you wish for.

[Jones28]

Jack Ross lost a final and semi final against st Johnstone, his card was marked after that and should have been punted long before he did.

And got us to another final and a third placed finish. Punted long before he was? Mental.

[raeburnhibs]

In my time following Hibs I've watched thirteen managers come and go, and I would say that only three have been an outright success.

Success: Mowbray, Stubbs, Lennon
Okay: Collins, Ross
Poor: Paatelainen, Hughes, Fenlon, Johnson
Awful: Calderwood, Butcher, Heckingbottom, Maloney, Johnson



Two managers (Collins and Stubbs) won us silverware; four (Collins, Fenlon, Stubbs, Ross) reached at least one final.
Just over half (Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Johnson) achieved a top six finish; just under half (Mowbray, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs, Lennon, Johnson) qualified us for Europe and two (Mowbray and Ross) achieved third.
The most damning statistic (and I'm sure you all know what I'm going to say): only one manager (Stubbs) had a winning record against Hearts. Three (Paatelainen, Lennon, Heckingbottom) had an even record, four (Collins, Fenlon, Butcher, Johnson) lost more than they won and thee complete losers (Hughes, Calderwood, Maloney) didn't win a single derby.


Taking the Hibs job is invariably hugely damaging for a prospective manager's career. Only two (Mowbray and Stubbs) were headhunted for another job; the rest resigned or were sacked. Those are atrocious odds.

Collins won a trophy but in your estimation is less a success than Lennon? I mean the aeroplane was great but not as good as a national cup final win

[Not In The Know]

If only it was as simple as throwing more money around. Executives are not just there to chuck money at the manager, their own presence can effect the overall attitudes and culture of the club. Dempster was a prime example of this. She came in and took the bull by the horns and things changed pretty quickly from top to bottom. Since her departure, it's been a steady decline back to the problems of old.

Dempster did ok. Just ok. Commercially and financially we lost a huge amount of ground on Aberdeen and herts (benefactors aside). Christ!! we even had a season without a club sponsor.

[Jones28]

Dempster did ok. Just ok. Commercially and financially we lost a huge amount of ground on Aberdeen and herts (benefactors aside). Christ!! we even had a season without a club sponsor.

Oh no, come on.

We were in one hell of a state when she took the helm, her first two big decisions she absolutely smashed with firing butcher and hiring Stubbs.

Commercially she was below par and could have done with a helping hand on that front but on the pitch it was a pretty fantastic time she oversaw.

[S4uzee]

Yeah. Jack Ross finishes third with decent cup runs and gets hounded out.

That’s not what you call decent cups runs losing to St Johnstone twice and a championship hearts side who had barely played a league game.

[The Modfather]

I wonder how those that chanted and demanded Ross be sacked at Livi that night are feeling now?

Nearly two years down the line and where are we?

It blows my mind and really is a case of being careful what you wish for.

Similarly, where is Jack Ross? In a non management role and will probably have to take a step down to rebuild his career again if he wants to get back into management given how it ended at Hibs and then Dundee Utd.

[HarpOnHibee]

Dempster did ok. Just ok. Commercially and financially we lost a huge amount of ground on Aberdeen and herts (benefactors aside). Christ!! we even had a season without a club sponsor.

I don't think fans were too concerned about coming 2nd or 3rd in the balance sheet table to Aberdeen or Hearts, considering the quality and performances on the pitch. I don't believe this was solely down to Stubbs and Lennon, but an overhaul in how the club was functioning as a whole.

[Steve-O]

And got us to another final and a third placed finish. Punted long before he was? Mental.

The nature of those semi / final defeats and his general inability to win big games was his undoing.

[Northernhibee]

That’s not what you call decent cups runs losing to St Johnstone twice and a championship hearts side who had barely played a league game.

Never failing to get us to Hampden? Not decent?

Yep, whoever is the new manager is expected to win the treble year on year for some, and we’re not a poisoned chalice.

Next Manager out.

[Trinity Hibee]

Never failing to get us to Hampden? Not decent?

Yep, whoever is the new manager is expected to win the treble year on year for some, and we’re not a poisoned chalice.

Next Manager out.

We lost twice meekly to a club with less resources than us in the space of a few months. That was utter crap and cannot be defended

[Bobby's Cinema]

In my time following Hibs I've watched thirteen managers come and go, and I would say that only three have been an outright success.

Success: Mowbray, Stubbs, Lennon
Okay: Collins, Ross
Poor: Paatelainen, Hughes, Fenlon, Johnson
Awful: Calderwood, Butcher, Heckingbottom, Maloney, Johnson



Two managers (Collins and Stubbs) won us silverware; four (Collins, Fenlon, Stubbs, Ross) reached at least one final.
Just over half (Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Johnson) achieved a top six finish; just under half (Mowbray, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs, Lennon, Johnson) qualified us for Europe and two (Mowbray and Ross) achieved third.
The most damning statistic (and I'm sure you all know what I'm going to say): only one manager (Stubbs) had a winning record against Hearts. Three (Paatelainen, Lennon, Heckingbottom) had an even record, four (Collins, Fenlon, Butcher, Johnson) lost more than they won and thee complete losers (Hughes, Calderwood, Maloney) didn't win a single derby.


Taking the Hibs job is invariably hugely damaging for a prospective manager's career. Only two (Mowbray and Stubbs) were headhunted for another job; the rest resigned or were sacked. Those are atrocious odds.
No it's not. Of all those names on the list, it is often the biggest opportunity that the manager will have had in their career so far. Lennon/ Heckingbottom/ LJ maybe the only ones that will have experienced similar and the scrutiny and expectation that comes with. It's up to them to see that it works out. If it doesn't then it's no surprise they have to find their place.

[Not In The Know]

Oh no, come on.

We were in one hell of a state when she took the helm, her first two big decisions she absolutely smashed with firing butcher and hiring Stubbs.

Commercially she was below par and could have done with a helping hand on that front but on the pitch it was a pretty fantastic time she oversaw.


Managers talk about fine margins all the time… but if not for SDG’s foreheid and a bampot Irish republican who hates Rangers (Stokes) I doubt we’d fondly remember her.

[Daily Hibs]

Sadly we are too much like Everton thus far into the new season ☹️

With a derby record very similar to Evertons.

[He's here!]

Dempster did ok. Just ok. Commercially and financially we lost a huge amount of ground on Aberdeen and herts (benefactors aside). Christ!! we even had a season without a club sponsor.

She was fantastic for us. Petrie offered her the opportunity to walk away when we got relegated but she said she would still take the job and then made a great appointment in Alan Stubbs. Their working relationship was fundamental to the rejuvenation of the club and we would quite simply not have won the Scottish Cup had Dempster not taken that job. That's how important she was to Hibs.

[He's here!]

Jack Ross lost a final and semi final against st Johnstone, his card was marked after that and should have been punted long before he did.

What nonsense. We've been paying the price of sacking him ever since.

[He's here!]

Are expectations really all that high? I don’t even expect us to punch above our weight, but maybe averaging out at 5th in the league and winning our fair share of derbies would be a reasonable expectation. We’ve been generally mediocre for all but a few of the 30 odd seasons I’ve been going. The football side of the club is just badly run. Far too often we see smaller clubs coming to play us that are fitter, better motivated and better organised. Boils my piss man. Apologies for the rant.

All good points. Bar a couple of good spells our derby record since Hearts came back up from the First Division in the early 80s is ridiculously poor but it's the regular beatings we take from smaller clubs that really bewilder me. I've been going for more than 40 seasons and this is a new thing. We simply did not lose so consistently, particularly at home, to these teams even in the dark days of the early 80s. What's especially concerning is that these sort of defeats don't even seem to register as a shock result any more. The likes of Livi and St Mirren quite clearly come to ER believing they have a right good chance of beating us.

[NAE NOOKIE]

She was fantastic for us. Petrie offered her the opportunity to walk away when we got relegated but she said she would still take the job and then made a great appointment in Alan Stubbs. Their working relationship was fundamental to the rejuvenation of the club and we would quite simply not have won the Scottish Cup had Dempster not taken that job. That's how important she was to Hibs.

Absolutely this. She took a club that was an absolute basket case, I mean it simply can't be overstated what a basket case it was, and turned it around. Relegated by a terrible manager who was still there, about 10 outfield players and no goalkeeper the day she joined. A year later we had a manager and a group of players who all absolutely got each other and who clearly had a great relationship with the CEO ... It didn't get us promoted but without it we simply wouldn't have won the cup. If Stubbs had stayed we absolutely would have been promoted the following year, as it is he made the wrong decision and the rest is history that might have been, because the guy was clearly a manager who relished the cup competitions.

OK folk have their own opinions as to what happened after Stubbs left and Lennon took over and no, Dempster wasn't perfect. But her place in and contribution to one of the finest moments in this club's history simply cant be overlooked or denigrated.

[ekhibee]

What nonsense. We've been paying the price of sacking him ever since.

And I'm sure AZ Alkmaar were singing his praises too. His record at DU was awful, it might be that he's just better at coaching development or something like that, hence why he's at Newcastle now. People on here slagging off Tam Courts on another thread as not good enough for us? He was a bloody sight better manager for them than Ross was.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I can certainly see why it might be seen as a poisoned chalice in the harsh light of what's happened at this club in the last 4 years.

The reality though is that Hibernian is a fantastic job for a manager. Excellent stadium and training facilities, good core support plus thousands more who would get on board with a bit of excitement and success, zero expectations or pressure to challenge for the league, guaranteed legend status if they were to win a trophy, decent chance of European football. Edinburgh of course, which is a major draw in itself.

We need to get out of this mindset that this club is cursed. Or that its somehow embedded in Hibs DNA to fail. That sort of thing becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

There is nothing inevitable about failure for Hibs. We are where we are because of some atrocious decision making at the top. Managers have been given the job who should never have been in contention for it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

In my time following Hibs I've watched thirteen managers come and go, and I would say that only three have been an outright success.

Success: Mowbray, Stubbs, Lennon
Okay: Collins, Ross
Poor: Paatelainen, Hughes, Fenlon, Johnson
Awful: Calderwood, Butcher, Heckingbottom, Maloney, Johnson



Two managers (Collins and Stubbs) won us silverware; four (Collins, Fenlon, Stubbs, Ross) reached at least one final.
Just over half (Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Johnson) achieved a top six finish; just under half (Mowbray, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs, Lennon, Johnson) qualified us for Europe and two (Mowbray and Ross) achieved third.
The most damning statistic (and I'm sure you all know what I'm going to say): only one manager (Stubbs) had a winning record against Hearts. Three (Paatelainen, Lennon, Heckingbottom) had an even record, four (Collins, Fenlon, Butcher, Johnson) lost more than they won and thee complete losers (Hughes, Calderwood, Maloney) didn't win a single derby.


Taking the Hibs job is invariably hugely damaging for a prospective manager's career. Only two (Mowbray and Stubbs) were headhunted for another job; the rest resigned or were sacked. Those are atrocious odds.


McLeish !edit scrub that not in era) and Lennon won promotion therefore silverware no?

Aberdeen until about Paw Broon was arguably up there too after Alex Smith taking then within a bawhair of the title…!no particular order some horrors : Aitken, W Miller, A Miller, Hegarty, Pele! (bundled out in the back of a car), Skovdahl!!!, Tangoman to name but a few that came and went through the revolving door…

[Waxy]

I dont think managers really care if a job is “poisoned chalice”
It gives them an excuse.
They’re only all really here for the money anyway.
The best thing we could probably do is give someone who is a Hibby the job and stick with him.
We wont do that though.

[He's here!]

And I'm sure AZ Alkmaar were singing his praises too. His record at DU was awful, it might be that he's just better at coaching development or something like that, hence why he's at Newcastle now. People on here slagging off Tam Courts on another thread as not good enough for us? He was a bloody sight better manager for them than Ross was.

Alkmaar went on to reach the semi-finals, losing to West Ham who won the tournament. Clearly streets ahead of United - as Villa are to us. Ross actually did pretty well to beat them in the first leg.

Bottom line is that the fact it didn't work out for him at United is not somehow vindication of our decision to sack him. We got that one wrong.

[DH1875]

Would be interesting to see how many managers the other clubs have had in the same time frame and what the average is.
I think the days of us having a manager 3 years plus are over. If their poor their sacked before it and if their successful someone else will come calling.

[Trinity Hibee]

Would be interesting to see how many managers the other clubs have had in the same time frame and what the average is.
I think the days of us having a manager 3 years plus are over. If their poor their sacked before it and if their successful someone else will come calling.

Someone’s done that on the managerial context thread

[Helensburghhibs]

I say this as being part of the issue i believe. We give no time whatsoever and dont even think of having a poor run. Every single team in the league has up and down finishes. Looking at some of the reasons on the manager threads is actually unbelievable. Callum davidson "nah forget the 2 trophys, he wasn't great the season after" mcinness "forget where he got them in the league, he doesnt play with the style of pep" and one im guilty of lennon "forget those good times against the old firm and the way we got promoted, when he left we were in 7th"

We as a fanbase need to find some patience and reality. And sharpish

[Mon Dieu4]

Are there any other teams in the league that have went on a 7 or 8 game losing streak and not sacked their manager? We just seem to have had that kinda streak more than anyone else in recent years, the managers that you state were a success all have something in common, they tried and tried to play attractive attacking football, people are likely to be a bit more forgiving if they are actually enjoying going to the games

The other managers were pretty much boring as **** so going to games becomes a chore which is bearable if you are winning but if you are losing consistently and boring people at the same time then you won't last long

[Greenworld]

We are suffering for the poor decision of sacking Jack Ross.
He should have stayed for the cup final (at least).
There was a poor run but that's always going to happen with Hibs.
He should have had enough credit in the bank to have been granted more time.
I thought that at the time but I could never have imagined how much that error would be compounded by subsequent managerial appointments.
Can't all be poor , there are other parts to this.
they are inheriting squads that haven't been gelling. Fans that are impatient for success, don't give time.
We need a solid appointment.
Not left field.
Michael O'Neil
Neil Lennon
Either would do me.Won't be michael o'neil he is contracted till 2028 with northern Ireland and earns 600k a year .

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[RIP Bestie]

And how many off the above managers have went on to bigger and better things

Mowbray - 100% yes
Hecky - strangely yes 100%
Lennon - got given the Celtic gig again 100% step up

The rest no chance

It says not to me the vast majority reached their peak with hibs and failed. Like the players if they do well other clubs will notice.

Vast majority didn’t.

Yogi went on to win the Scottish Cup with Inverness CT.

[Onion]

No, it's a cash cow. Well paid job, if you get right, will bag you a better paid job elsewhere. If you don't you'll get a very decent payoff in 9-18 months. Very attractive to any up and coming capable/ambitious manager and just as attractive to the failing / poor / passive / unambitious.

It's up to the Board to make the position compelling to the former, and filter out the latter - something they've been poor at doing of late.

[tamig]

Everything is in place for the right guy to make a real success of it here. Its not a poisoned chalice. We just need to pick the right guy. Far easier said than done obviously. Huge opportunity.

[He's here!]

Won't be michael o'neil he is contracted till 2028 with northern Ireland and earns 600k a year .

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Quite extraordinary salary for a part-time job.

[The Modfather]

I say this as being part of the issue i believe. We give no time whatsoever and dont even think of having a poor run. Every single team in the league has up and down finishes. Looking at some of the reasons on the manager threads is actually unbelievable. Callum davidson "nah forget the 2 trophys, he wasn't great the season after" mcinness "forget where he got them in the league, he doesnt play with the style of pep" and one im guilty of lennon "forget those good times against the old firm and the way we got promoted, when he left we were in 7th"

We as a fanbase need to find some patience and reality. And sharpish

I think it’s a two way street. The manager has to hit the ground running to a degree, but certainly had to show something to give him time over.

With Johnson, I still couldn’t tell you what his style was or see any style he was eventually trying to get to. He also failed to bring through any of the U19s where you could see a, albeit raw, team in place that could potentially grow into a good team with the right additions. As an example we’ve had the following players play that deepest midfield position under Johnson: Newell, JDH, Jeggo, Delfierre, Levitt, Egan-Reilly, Stevenson & Porteous. Or at RB we’ve seen: Cadden, Miller, Campbell, Fish, Harbottle, Egan-Reilly & Megwa.

[MWHIBBIES]

Managers talk about fine margins all the time… but if not for SDG’s foreheid and a bampot Irish republican who hates Rangers (Stokes) I doubt we’d fondly remember her.

So if the team she helped build from scratch didn't win our first Scottish cup in 114 years with a brilliant performance, we wouldn't fondly remember her?

It was a lot more than small margins that won us the cup.

[Jones28]

Similarly, where is Jack Ross? In a non management role and will probably have to take a step down to rebuild his career again if he wants to get back into management given how it ended at Hibs and then Dundee Utd.

I'm sure the fact that this non management role is at the richest club in the world will be of some comfort to him.

United had a pretty disastrous season, I think the problems ran a lot deeper than Jack Ross. Hence their relegation.

[Jones28]

The nature of those semi / final defeats and his general inability to win big games was his undoing.

And yet finished 3rd and was sacked weeks before a cup final? His record against the old firm could have been better but its not often that a result against either half of the old firm defines your season.

Hearts results yes I concede that his record was poor.

St Johnston were pretty unstoppable that season and the performances in the semi and final against them weren't great but it's not like we were the only team that couldn't beat them.

[Jones28]

Managers talk about fine margins all the time… but if not for SDG’s foreheid and a bampot Irish republican who hates Rangers (Stokes) I doubt we’d fondly remember her.

Thats a bit of an "if my auntie had baws argument" is it not? We won the cup, end of. We got out of the championship under another of her appointees in Lennon. We were also able to put together a very good team, break record season ticket sales and play European football under her stewardship.

[Northernhibee]

And yet finished 3rd and was sacked weeks before a cup final? His record against the old firm could have been better but its not often that a result against either half of the old firm defines your season.

Hearts results yes I concede that his record was poor.

St Johnston were pretty unstoppable that season and the performances in the semi and final against them weren't great but it's not like we were the only team that couldn't beat them.
He’d also just hammered Sevco 3-1 at Hampden - a very big game.

[Jones28]

He’d also just hammered Sevco 3-1 at Hampden - a very big game.

That game doesny count though.

[Ronniekirk]

Don’t think we’re a poisoned chalice but our expectations of winning and doing it with style and panache, makes it a particularly hard job in Scottish football.

I wouldn’t fancy the job.
But the stark reality is that rarely happens so don’t know why people have these expectations It’s a myth and as soon as we get someone decent they are off anyway
Maloney and L J both promised what they couldn’t deliver Just get a good manager in that knows how to bring players into a system that can get the best of if players in Thier right position and can develop players to become better
Success would then follow as a by product

[WhileTheChief..]

There's only a handful of clubs in the UK offering the potential of European football. 15 or so at most?

Most of these clubs are out of the reach of most of the managers in the leagues - think top 6 or 8 in the EPL plus the OF up here.

That doesn't leave many clubs for any managers that a fancy a shot at the European Conference or Europa League. That should be our selling point.

Come in, get us 3rd or 4th in this crappy league, and you've got a chance to shine on a bigger stage.

We're a tremendous proposition for any decent manager with ambition.

[Lancs Harp]

I think we offer a fantastic opportunity for a Manager with ambition.

[Silky]

I think we offer a fantastic opportunity for a Manager with ambition.

Is it? The average lifespan of a manager is what, 12-18 months? Anyone with ambition might want a complete rebuild again. They won't be afforded the time to have ambition imo. For a lot of fans it's living in the present,the "now or never". Having ambition could be three, four years. No chance that's happening.

[Lancs Harp]

Thats modern management for you, its a results business more than ever. Someone who has strong ideas of what he wants and how it should be done will be walking into a great club with a great fanbase in a great City. A great opportunity IMO.

[Wilson]

Thats modern management for you, its a results business more than ever. Someone who has strong ideas of what he wants and how it should be done will be walking into a great club with a great fanbase in a great City. A great opportunity IMO.

Great.

[Keith_M]

What exactly is a 'chalice'?

[Waxy]

What exactly is a 'chalice'?

I thought it was a fancy cup of some sort

[Waxy]

What exactly is a 'chalice'?

Here come. Come to hibs.
Come to us and drink from out our chalice.

[Keith_M]

I thought it was a fancy cup of some sort


Scottish Cup or League Cup?

[HarpOnHibee]

Scottish Cup or League Cup?

The one cup the manager seems to obtain each and every season.

[He's here!]

Thats a bit of an "if my auntie had baws argument" is it not? We won the cup, end of. We got out of the championship under another of her appointees in Lennon. We were also able to put together a very good team, break record season ticket sales and play European football under her stewardship.

Exactly. It's not even an argument. The cup win was a thoroughly deserved culmination of steady upward progress (we also reached the League Cup final the same season), not some sort of skin-saving result from nowhere.

[HarpOnHibee]

Exactly. It's not even an argument. The cup win was a thoroughly deserved culmination of steady upward progress (we also reached the League Cup final the same season), not some sort of skin-saving result from nowhere.

Indeed and we really should have taken the League Cup as well. We were on fire that season.

[He's here!]

Indeed and we really should have taken the League Cup as well. We were on fire that season.

Yes it's a bit of a forgotten game but we actually played well and when Fontaine smashed home the equaliser you felt there was only going to be one winner.

Of course, there's the argument we might not have won the Scottish Cup had we won that day...

Another season we should have reached both finals was when we won the League Cup under Collins. Those two Scottish Cup semi final displays against (IIRC) an already relegated Dunfermline were close to the biggest letdowns I've felt as Hibs fan.

[A Hi-Bee]

"Are Hibs a poisoned chalice" think you would have to ask "Judas"
:greengrin

[Daily Hibs]

Dempster did ok. Just ok. Commercially and financially we lost a huge amount of ground on Aberdeen and herts (benefactors aside). Christ!! we even had a season without a club sponsor.

Yes, that is often conveniently forgotten about by some. Dempsters running of the club cost us millions.
No shirt sponsor for two years.

The club is on another level now with turnover and commercial revenue now. Thts why I sound like a broken record about the need for the club to move on and almost reset itself from people who have been at the club too long. We need to be competitive at the top end of the league with the cycle of money that can follow with Conference League Group Stages and everything that goes with it.

We cant afford to lose out on it if Hearts and Aberdeen continue to regularly get it. They'll even pull away from us.

Tough draw with Villa this year but it is sport and the luck of the draw.

[007]

The one cup the manager seems to obtain each and every season.

The Fuh cup. 🤔

[theonlywayisup]

Don't know about poisoned chalice, but I do believe that our leadership team have made some bad decisions that have ultimately made it difficult for our manager / team coach to excel.

Let's not forget that we should have recruited better to build on Jack Ross achieving 3rd spot in the League and reaching one cup final. It was pretty obvious where we needed to strengthen, but instead we gambled on players like Nathan Wood, Dan Mackay, Dylan Tait and James Scott, when we should have got better quality in. None of the players recruited during that summer transfer window have improved Hibs, with only JDH still considered for first team selection.

Then we gambled again on Maloney. We didn't make it easy for a young relatively inexperienced manager, by selling our prized asset, Martin Boyle (who as he showed on Saturday can create a goal out of almost nothing), plus experienced players in Gogic, Murphy and Halberg released all on loan. We replaced experience with a number of gambles on players like Melkerson, Henderson, Mitchell, Jasper and Hauge. We hardly made it easy for Maloney. Again, none of the winter transfer window recruits improved Hibs.

We then recruit Johnson! Again, we didn't make it easy for him by buying a lot of young prospects many of whom are are no longer available for selection (sold / loan / not deemed good enough). Bojang! Cabraja! Kenneh! Tavares!

In summary, we've recruited a lot of players, many of which are worse than the players they were replacing.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Supporting Hibs is the real poisoned chalice:greengrin. Managers can forget about us when they leave; us fans have a life sentence. This club could make a saint swear. It isn’t an easy job for a manger, that’s for sure. We can be a demanding support, though we are in a league dominated by two clubs, meaning we will be limited to an occasional cup win. I suppose the same applies to Hearts and Aberdeen: reality is likely to fall short of hopes and expectations. One thing the support won’t compromise on is football that is good to watch. A manager who can’t provide that won’t last.

[ekhibee]

Alkmaar went on to reach the semi-finals, losing to West Ham who won the tournament. Clearly streets ahead of United - as Villa are to us. Ross actually did pretty well to beat them in the first leg.

Bottom line is that the fact it didn't work out for him at United is not somehow vindication of our decision to sack him. We got that one wrong.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then, as I didn't really rate him either as a motivator or as a man manager when he was at Hibs, but I certainly can't argue with good cup runs and league position, which are both really important. There's definitely been a lot worse managers than Ross at Hibs, but there's been a lot of better ones too.

[allezsauzee]

In my time following Hibs I've watched thirteen managers come and go, and I would say that only three have been an outright success.

Success: Mowbray, Stubbs, Lennon
Okay: Collins, Ross
Poor: Paatelainen, Hughes, Fenlon, Johnson
Awful: Calderwood, Butcher, Heckingbottom, Maloney, Johnson



Two managers (Collins and Stubbs) won us silverware; four (Collins, Fenlon, Stubbs, Ross) reached at least one final.
Just over half (Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Johnson) achieved a top six finish; just under half (Mowbray, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs, Lennon, Johnson) qualified us for Europe and two (Mowbray and Ross) achieved third.
The most damning statistic (and I'm sure you all know what I'm going to say): only one manager (Stubbs) had a winning record against Hearts. Three (Paatelainen, Lennon, Heckingbottom) had an even record, four (Collins, Fenlon, Butcher, Johnson) lost more than they won and thee complete losers (Hughes, Calderwood, Maloney) didn't win a single derby.


Taking the Hibs job is invariably hugely damaging for a prospective manager's career. Only two (Mowbray and Stubbs) were headhunted for another job; the rest resigned or were sacked. Those are atrocious odds.

Harsh on Hecky given that he won more games than he lost. If Boyle had come back from injury a couple of weeks earlier and Doidge had found his shooting boots a week earlier, he'd maybe have survived. Ifs and buts , but his record since would suggest that he's a decent manager.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yes it's a bit of a forgotten game but we actually played well and when Fontaine smashed home the equaliser you felt there was only going to be one winner.

Of course, there's the argument we might not have won the Scottish Cup had we won that day...

Another season we should have reached both finals was when we won the League Cup under Collins. Those two Scottish Cup semi final displays against (IIRC) an already relegated Dunfermline were close to the biggest letdowns I've felt as Hibs fan.

Yup. We were well on top in the 2nd half in the LC final, the mistake we made was to be too open trying to win it in normal time, especially in the last 10 minutes. If we had kept the heid and let the game go into extra time I'm positive we would have won it.

As for the SC semi's against Dunfermline ... I'm like you, all I remember it as was a totally blown opportunity to get a crack at a pretty average Celtic team with one of the best teams we have had in the last 40 years ... but for that total balls up we would have been talking about Brown, Sproule, Fletcher, Benji etc in the same hushed tones we talk about the 2016 team in ... absolutely tragic that team didn't make the final .. an interesting footnote is that the ref for the replay was non other than soon to be Hearts legend Craig Thomson.

[Phil MaGlass]

No poison chalice, Hibs are a club any manager with ambition should be chomping at the bit to take over, not much bigger challenges than a big club underachieving year after year (literally) needing put on a steady road back to fame and fortune. Luckily in Scotland we have a few manager that could do the job and I'm almost sure they would take it, 50-50 with McInnes.

[Northernhibee]

Yup. We were well on top in the 2nd half in the LC final, the mistake we made was to be too open trying to win it in normal time, especially in the last 10 minutes. If we had kept the heid and let the game go into extra time I'm positive we would have won it.

As for the SC semi's against Dunfermline ... I'm like you, all I remember it as was a totally blown opportunity to get a crack at a pretty average Celtic team with one of the best teams we have had in the last 40 years ... but for that total balls up we would have been talking about Brown, Sproule, Fletcher, Benji etc in the same hushed tones we talk about the 2016 team in ... absolutely tragic that team didn't make the final .. an interesting footnote is that the ref for the replay was non other than soon to be Hearts legend Craig Thomson.

I think we just run out of steam that day, we’d had a lot of injuries and the midfield that day was just who was fit and a few players went into that game needing a rest.

We were the better team but fatigue just caught up. About 75 minutes in you could see the tide change.

[Since452]

There are managers out there who would bite your arm off to be manager of Hibs. It's an outstanding job. Realistically only the Glasgow two are bigger jobs in Scotland as we're on a par with our neighbours and the sheep.

There will be a lot of very strong candidates. I just hope Ben Kensell or Ian Gordon are nowhere near the recruitment process.