Defending

[The Harp Awakes]

It's got to the stage now that we've got a decent chance of conceding with any cross into our box.

While I think we have recruited a couple of decent players in Vente and Levitt, we have failed to adequately replace Hanlon, Stevenson and Porteous in defence. Added to that, we're clearly not coaching the players which we do have, to defend properly.

[LunasBoots]

Said it elsewhere we are 4 or 5 players short behind the forward thinking players, a creative forward thinking midfielder would of been nice, like a Dylan McGeough type player, defensively we are all over the place and has to be addressed before the end of the window.

[Helensburghhibs]

We could stick cafu at right back,, as long as we allow 2 on 1 constantly then they are are going to het crosses in. The system/player combination doesnt work

[Smartie]

We could stick cafu at right back,, as long as we allow 2 on 1 constantly then they are are going to het crosses in. The system/player combination doesnt work

Yeah, I’m inclined to agree with this.

It seems to be the nightmare combination where we struggle to get adequate support to our attack and provide minimal protection to our defence.

We got Hanlon and Stevenson’s heads on sticks today and see all the good it did us.

I don’t think we’ve got the personnel to play a 433. I’ve seen more Hibs teams struggle trying to play this way than any other.

Sadly I don’t offer any solutions for the players we have. Vente being the striker we need, a new RB and a new CM would go a long way. I thought we were goosed the minute Johnson said we had enough to get us through to this point when it was obvious we didn’t. That’s actually been my biggest problem with Johnson so far - it was nonsense, we clearly didn’t have the squad to cope with this run of games.

[Ryan91]

We're giving teams too much space out wide and inviting crosses into the box, which our defenders struggle to deal with.

Either we need to force teams inside or we need to start trying to prevent crosses.

It seems also like our keepers are being instructed to avoid coming out to try to claim high crosses into our box.

[Chorley Hibee]

Yeah, I’m inclined to agree with this.

It seems to be the nightmare combination where we struggle to get adequate support to our attack and provide minimal protection to our defence.

We got Hanlon and Stevenson’s heads on sticks today and see all the good it did us.

I don’t think we’ve got the personnel to play a 433. I’ve seen more Hibs teams struggle trying to play this way than any other.

Sadly I don’t offer any solutions for the players we have. Vente being the striker we need, a new RB and a new CM would go a long way. I thought we were goosed the minute Johnson said we had enough to get us through to this point when it was obvious we didn’t. That’s actually been my biggest problem with Johnson so far - it was nonsense, we clearly didn’t have the squad to cope with this run of games.

I said at the time such a ridiculous statement would come back to bite him on the arse.

We're criminally short in countless positions, and the opening three games of the league season have proved that beyond any doubt.

[DH1875]

Here is an idea. See since we can't defend crosses into our box, why don't we stop them at the ducking source. Its not rocket science.

[Northernhibee]

Here is an idea. See since we can't defend crosses into our box, why don't we stop them at the ducking source. Its not rocket science.

And another idea - start a ****ing right back at right back.

[DH1875]

And another idea - start a ****ing right back at right back.

Think we need to be going 3-5-2 for the foreseeable.

[H18 SFR]

Think we need to be going 3-5-2 for the foreseeable.

Who is going to stop the crosses in that formation? Boyle and Youan?

[DH1875]

Who is going to stop the crosses in that formation? Boyle and Youan?

Erm.......NO obviously. Obita at LWB for starters.

[Hermit Crab]

8 or 9 goals conceded from crosses already this season. Most from our right side as well. It's absolutely shocking how easy it is. Put a ball into our box and we look like conceding. Every team will do it because they know we just can't defend them.

[H18 SFR]

Erm.......NO obviously. Obita at LWB for starters.

Which completely ignores the side we’ve bee
Shipping goals from.

Would it indeed be Boyle?

[Bobby's Cinema]

Along with the cross ball problem...

Have to say I felt Jeggo was run ragged today by any physical presence in their team. The one incident in particular where he was harrying for possession on Livi's 18 yard box and their man carried the ball battling with him all the way to our by-line to win a corner of him was stand out.

If he's meant to be our enforcer on days like today and can't carry out that role then what is he offering us.

Also haven't seen it back but I don't know if it was tiredness after the run for the goal, or just laziness, but Boyle could have went with his man down the right but instead let him run off him while watching it happen, left us 2 on 1 and then they score immediately.

[Iain G]

Think we need to be going 3-5-2 for the foreseeable.

Yup and we played the players today that could have made that happen, instead of shoehorning Rocky Hardbottle in at rightback.

[LeithMike]

The thing I noticed most about Villa was the discipline and professionalism of their defence. They were meticulous in the way they played offside across the entire 90 minutes. They were clearly good players but also very well drilled and disciplined by an excellent manager.

LJ doesn’t really seem to have a structure of playing and is a bit of a gambler, rapidly changing formations and subbing players off. He seems to just rotate things in the hope that something works.

Anyway, point is that if we can get in a proper football manager that can organise and discipline the defence then we’ll see a massive change in performance of the defence.

Just look at the way Martindale was constantly organising his players and compare it to ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hermit Crab]

The thing I noticed most about Villa was the discipline and professionalism of their defence. They were meticulous in the way they played offside across the entire 90 minutes. They were clearly good players but also very well drilled and disciplined by an excellent manager.

LJ doesn’t really seem to have a structure of playing and is a bit of a gambler, rapidly changing formations and subbing players off. He seems to just rotate things in the hope that something works.

Anyway, point is that if we can get in a proper football manager that can organise and discipline the defence then we’ll see a massive change in performance of the defence.

Just look at the way Martindale was constantly organising his players and compare it to ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All while LJ hid in the dugout. :agree:

[Nicho87]

Posted before we have absolutely no experience at the back

His idea of 4 centre half’s

When Hanlon doesn’t play

We have fish, Rocky and Harbottle

The lack of experience not just in this country or competitive games alone is alarming

How a manager doesn’t see this is astounding

Throw in a young miller and Obita who hasn’t played in Scotland before

Complete car crash

[Nicho87]

All while LJ hid in the dugout. :agree:

I noticed that today

Watched him before from my seat in the east and he is usually standing without being over animated

Today he sat for the vast majority

He knows

We know

The board…..

[Smartie]

The thing I noticed most about Villa was the discipline and professionalism of their defence. They were meticulous in the way they played offside across the entire 90 minutes. They were clearly good players but also very well drilled and disciplined by an excellent manager.

LJ doesn’t really seem to have a structure of playing and is a bit of a gambler, rapidly changing formations and subbing players off. He seems to just rotate things in the hope that something works.

Anyway, point is that if we can get in a proper football manager that can organise and discipline the defence then we’ll see a massive change in performance of the defence.

Just look at the way Martindale was constantly organising his players and compare it to ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfashionable opinion but Martindale impresses me.

His sides are well organised and motivated and you need to play well to beat them. He seems pretty tactically savvy for someone who hasn’t had a lifetime and extensive playing career in senior football.

[DH1875]

Which completely ignores the side we’ve bee
Shipping goals from.

Would it indeed be Boyle?

I'd go Miller and hope the RCB of the three would help cover him.
Anyone know when Cadden is back?

[Forza Fred]

I'd go Miller and hope the RCB of the three would help cover him.
Anyone know when Cadden is back?

Unfortunately I think LJ sees Miller as his scapegoat.

His rhetoric is that teams are targeting us down that side and he hasn’t been able to find someone who can repel them.

Does he maybe think it is an idea when teams are concentrating on one side to add some additional cover?

Against Villa his tactics were to play the full backs narrow to try and stop their midfield waltzing through ours.

But obviously doing so meant that there was even more room on the flanks and Villa quickly noticed this and took advantage of it.

Miller was hopelessly exposed by following LJ’s instructions to ‘tuck in’….

He was dropped after the Andorra game for ‘not playing to instructions’ and now gets dropped due to following his instructions against Villa.

I think LJ sees Miller as a handy whipping boy who he can blame to deflect the criticism.

[neil7908]

Erm.......NO obviously. Obita at LWB for starters.

And when they double up and have their winger and fullback pushing forward?

I know our defence is taking flak, and deservedly so, but every time I see Youan or Boyle get the ball out wide they have two players on them.

When we get attacked down the wing it seems to be our fullback having to pick up two folk. That was certainly the case aginast Villa, where Digne just overlapped and we had no one covering him.

Now maybe Boyle and Youan have been told to stay forward, or maybe they are just not putting the work in but we've binned Hanlon, Stevenson and Miller, and still lost goals from exactly the same position. That tells me it's a systematic and coaching issue as much has personnel.

[Tyler Durden]

Unfortunately I think LJ sees Miller as his scapegoat.

His rhetoric is that teams are targeting us down that side and he hasn’t been able to find someone who can repel them.

Does he maybe think it is an idea when teams are concentrating on one side to add some additional cover?

Against Villa his tactics were to play the full backs narrow to try and stop their midfield waltzing through ours.

But obviously doing so meant that there was even more room on the flanks and Villa quickly noticed this and took advantage of it.

Miller was hopelessly exposed by following LJ’s instructions to ‘tuck in’….

He was dropped after the Andorra game for ‘not playing to instructions’ and now gets dropped due to following his instructions against Villa.

I think LJ sees Miller as a handy whipping boy who he can blame to deflect the criticism.

Certainly seems to be something going on re Johnson and Miller. To leave him on the bench for the 90 mins is baffling and it’s not the first time.

I don’t think Miller is great but his treatment hasn’t helped him. And if LJ doesn’t fancy him, what is his plan? Why hasn’t he signed another RB. Total shambles

['mon the beers]

We might need to go 541/532 with 5 defensive players to try and stop this run we are on. Felt for Harbottle yesterday as just another player hung out to dry by Johnson at right back.

We could go -

GK

Miller
Harbottle
Rocky
Hanlon
Obita

Boyle
CM
Newell
Youan

Vente

I know it’s defensive and a team for counter attacking but if we don’t try something we are in even more bother. Left a couple of positions free as Marshall gives me the fear and there’s not one player there in CM that I fancy playing alongside Newell with Levitt out just now.

[JimBHibees]

Unfortunately I think LJ sees Miller as his scapegoat.

His rhetoric is that teams are targeting us down that side and he hasn’t been able to find someone who can repel them.

Does he maybe think it is an idea when teams are concentrating on one side to add some additional cover?

Against Villa his tactics were to play the full backs narrow to try and stop their midfield waltzing through ours.

But obviously doing so meant that there was even more room on the flanks and Villa quickly noticed this and took advantage of it.

Miller was hopelessly exposed by following LJ’s instructions to ‘tuck in’….

He was dropped after the Andorra game for ‘not playing to instructions’ and now gets dropped due to following his instructions against Villa.

I think LJ sees Miller as a handy whipping boy who he can blame to deflect the criticism.

Think you may be right he does seem to have been inexplicably under played. I get he liked Cadden but his defending was worse than Millers. Miller needs a coach to have faith to him and keep him in and also as you said provide protection. We should have played 5 at the back v Villa so that central defence was stronger plus also allow full backs to get out to wide players. Naivety in the extreme not to do so. Hopefully a real coach comes in and can get us organised plus get much more out of individual players. Constant chopping and changing shape and personnel is farcical. Would bring Lewis back in and keep playing him.

[LewysGot2]

Think you may be right he does seem to have been inexplicably under played. I get he liked Cadden but his defending was worse than Millers. Miller needs a coach to have faith to him and keep him in and also as you said provide protection. We should have played 5 at the back v Villa so that central defence was stronger plus also allow full backs to get out to wide players. Naivety in the extreme not to do so. Hopefully a real coach comes in and can get us organised plus get much more out of individual players. Constant chopping and changing shape and personnel is farcical. Would bring Liam back in and keep playing him.

Liam?

[JimBHibees]

We might need to go 541/532 with 5 defensive players to try and stop this run we are on. Felt for Harbottle yesterday as just another player hung out to dry by Johnson at right back.

We could go -

GK

Miller
Harbottle
Rocky
Hanlon
Obita

Boyle
CM
Newell
Youan

Vente

I know it’s defensive and a team for counter attacking but if we don’t try something we are in even more bother. Left a couple of positions free as Marshall gives me the fear and there’s not one player there in CM that I fancy playing alongside Newell with Levitt out just now.

We need to be defensive against better teams. Only thing would maybe not play all of Boyle vente and Youan however think who else not really sure.

[JimBHibees]

Liam?

Apologies Lewis :greengrin

[Brightside]

Cadden is massively underrated. But we don’t defend properly as a team.

[jeffers]

Think you may be right he does seem to have been inexplicably under played. I get he liked Cadden but his defending was worse than Millers. Miller needs a coach to have faith to him and keep him in and also as you said provide protection. We should have played 5 at the back v Villa so that central defence was stronger plus also allow full backs to get out to wide players. Naivety in the extreme not to do so. Hopefully a real coach comes in and can get us organised plus get much more out of individual players. Constant chopping and changing shape and personnel is farcical. Would bring Lewis back in and keep playing him.

He’s currently the best option we have at RB, but they don’t feel he listens to instructions (Johnson’s already come out and said that.) I fully expect us to sign someone who can play in that position before the window closes. Tbh I don’t think a fit Cadden would have made any difference to our defending, like you I think it’s worse than Miller’s.

[B.H.F.C]

The thing I noticed most about Villa was the discipline and professionalism of their defence. They were meticulous in the way they played offside across the entire 90 minutes. They were clearly good players but also very well drilled and disciplined by an excellent manager.

LJ doesn’t really seem to have a structure of playing and is a bit of a gambler, rapidly changing formations and subbing players off. He seems to just rotate things in the hope that something works.

Anyway, point is that if we can get in a proper football manager that can organise and discipline the defence then we’ll see a massive change in performance of the defence.

Just look at the way Martindale was constantly organising his players and compare it to ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, perfectly demonstrates the difference of a proper manager. Obviously Emery is an elite manager but it’s all relative to the level you’re playing at and our manager is incapable of organising our team in a similar manner at our level.

The lack of basic structure in our team and neglect of certain positions is absolutely criminal.

[Smartie]

Cadden is massively underrated. But we don’t defend properly as a team.

He is, I really like Cadden, but I don’t like him so much as the RB in a 4.

It wasn’t coincidence that we had a very good run of form last season when we worked out a way to have Cadden in the team but with a bit of additional defensive cover for him.

I suspect Vente will like the service Cadden can provide.

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe i'm a dinosaur, but i prefer our managers to build a team with a solid back 4 and a mobile inventive midfield who can create and do the ugly stuff in defending when needed.

Up front we have enough goals to scrape through some games, but when you have a defence as bad as ours, and a midfiled as sheite as ours, they will never score enough to outscore most teams in this league.

I think its very naive to keep buying in forwards for the money we have, £700k Vente, £500k??? Youan and whatever we paid for Boyle, then ignore that defence which has needed surgery for a few years.

Then you look at that midfield, Campbell and Jeggo can barely kick the ball in a straight line, i mean FFS they are actually playing in our team?

Build a ****in team from the back, and make us difficult to score against first and foremost, then our very good forwards will win it for us.

[Bridge hibs]

Maybe i'm a dinosaur, but i prefer our managers to build a team with a solid back 4 and a mobile inventive midfield who can create and do the ugly stuff in defending when needed.

Up front we have enough goals to scrape through some games, but when you have a defence as bad as ours, and a midfiled as sheite as ours, they will never score enough to outscore most teams in this league.

I think its very naive to keep buying in forwards for the money we have, £700k Vente, £500k??? Youan and whatever we paid for Boyle, then ignore that defence which has needed surgery for a few years.

Then you look at that midfield, Campbell and Jeggo can barely kick the ball in a straight line, i mean FFS they are actually playing in our team?

Build a ****in team from the back, and make us difficult to score against first and foremost, then our very good forwards will win it for us.Yep I said similar on another thread, we need steel in that defence as we are so ****ing weak, midfield is the same. Get those areas sorted and the forwards will do their bit

Hopefully

[B.H.F.C]

Maybe i'm a dinosaur, but i prefer our managers to build a team with a solid back 4 and a mobile inventive midfield who can create and do the ugly stuff in defending when needed.

Up front we have enough goals to scrape through some games, but when you have a defence as bad as ours, and a midfiled as sheite as ours, they will never score enough to outscore most teams in this league.

I think its very naive to keep buying in forwards for the money we have, £700k Vente, £500k??? Youan and whatever we paid for Boyle, then ignore that defence which has needed surgery for a few years.

Then you look at that midfield, Campbell and Jeggo can barely kick the ball in a straight line, i mean FFS they are actually playing in our team?

Build a ****in team from the back, and make us difficult to score against first and foremost, then our very good forwards will win it for us.

I don’t disagree with the general point, I think the neglect of the areas mentioned is terrible management.

Irrespective of that I still think even a half decent manager organises what we have and improves us defensively. We’ve seen it dozens of times over the years where a manager will come in to a club and do that.

Our squad isn’t as good as it should be for the money spent but our biggest problem is still in the dugout. Playing Harbottle at right back yesterday ffs.