Sentiment FC

[h1bs4life]

After more horrific defensive displays this season which they have both played a part in surely time is up for Hanlon and Stevenson.
Started a thread after the St Johnstone cup final that it was time for the manager to move both on before they were part of another squad that cost a manager his job.
Bit of a discussion then the usual pile on with the personal abuse stuff which achieved its aim and the thread was closed . Not only did Ross loose his job Maloney followed shortly after .
Both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner but that was way back in 2016.
Doesn’t matter how badly they play they still should play the following game according to team for next game threads which looks like sentiment playing a big part of it.
Johnson seems to be caught up in it as well and ultimately like others before him will pay for it by loosing his job.
Time for both to move on find new clubs / coaching jobs and if they are as good as some people think they are they will be back at Easter Road in the future.

[the_ginger_hibee]

12 managers that mostly failed at Hibs & were sacked or mutually consented can't be wrong...or something?!

[matty_f]

I'm not sure why they're both always grouped together. Hanlon is a bit younger than Lewis and is far from finished, IMHO.

Stevenson has probably had the worst start to a season that I can remember, and at the moment it does look like this might be a season to far for him at this level.

[marinello59]

So managers who live and die by results forget about their own self preservation and pick Hanlon and Stevenson based on some fan like sentiment. Aye, right.:greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

After more horrific defensive displays this season which they have both played a part in surely time is up for Hanlon and Stevenson.
Started a thread after the St Johnstone cup final that it was time for the manager to move both on before they were part of another squad that cost a manager his job.
Bit of a discussion then the usual pile on with the personal abuse stuff which achieved its aim and the thread was closed . Not only did Ross loose his job Maloney followed shortly after .
Both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner but that was way back in 2016.
Doesn’t matter how badly they play they still should play the following game according to team for next game threads which looks like sentiment playing a big part of it.
Johnson seems to be caught up in it as well and ultimately like others before him will pay for it by loosing his job.
Time for both to move on find new clubs / coaching jobs and if they are as good as some people think they are they will be back at Easter Road in the future.



Agree, as long as those two continue to start games we will continue to concede a ridiculous amount of goals and lose games, they should have been replaced the start of last season at the latest. 16 goals conceded already in all competitive games so far. Its slapstick stuff our defending at times, not just from the two you mention but from the whole team.

[IberianHibernian]

I'm not sure why they're both always grouped together. Hanlon is a bit younger than Lewis and is far from finished, IMHO.

Stevenson has probably had the worst start to a season that I can remember, and at the moment it does look like this might be a season to far for him at this level.Yes . Agree with this .

[ScottB]

It’s neither player’s fault that the club has continually failed to replace them. How many new left backs has Lewis seen off?

I’m not sure we can paint this as either playing determinedly soldiering on wanting to play every game when they can’t manage it anymore; they’re pros and they play when they’re asked. If they aren’t in great form or aren’t up to the task, then it’s the fault of the manager for continually chucking them in and our DoF / scouts etc for not replacing them.

[Liberal Hibby]

Agree, as long as those two continue to start games we will continue to concede a ridiculous amount of goals and lose games, they should have been replaced the start of last season at the latest. 16 goals conceded already in all competitive games so far. Its slapstick stuff our defending at times, not just from the two you mention but from the whole team.

Except it's on the right side that we seem to be losing most of the goals.

Let's have a sensible debate here. Are they finished? No - they both have something to offer. Should the club have a proper succession strategy? Yes obviously. But there are too many who look at the goals against column and use it as a stick to beat these guys with - to the point of not even seeing where the goals are coming from.

[ballengeich]

Yesterday evening four of Villa's five goals came from attacking our right side. Hanlon and Stevenson defended the left side quite well. They're not beyond criticism, but to see them as major weaknesses is incomprehensible to me.

[wookie70]

None of the defenders have been great this year. Miller very good in a few games, Hanlon too, Lewis had one cracking game but generally they have not had a good start. I'd love to see a stat for how many crosses come into our box compared to other teams around us. We play in a way fullbacks get no help, stay too narrow for too long so they don't block the cross and for me that results in far too many crosses. That will always lead to goals.

Lewis is my favourite ever Hibs player. I rarely criticise him but he isn't a week in week out starter anymore. He is definitely good enough for teh squad but players are getting bigger, stronger and faster and he is struggling to keep up. We need to get someone to at the very least compete and signed with a view to tart. Hanlon for me is our best centre half. We still need to get someone who is a leftie to offer competition and cover but that will be another window away at least. For all our defenders have started the season I think the way we play is just as big a reason we are conceding so many goals. Boyle and Youan have simply not helped enough off the ball and we don't have a preferred formation, style or first 11 and that seems to have been the case since the manager came in.

[Smartie]

I'm not sure why they're both always grouped together. Hanlon is a bit younger than Lewis and is far from finished, IMHO.

Stevenson has probably had the worst start to a season that I can remember, and at the moment it does look like this might be a season to far for him at this level.

Stevenson's start to the season has been weird - apart from in Andorra (where he was simply terrible) he's actually been very good in between making a number of costly mistakes.

I don't think it's a season too far for him even though there seems to be a growing number of people who are of that belief. For a start it must be a nightmare playing fullback behind Youan, and I think our whole defence has been stretched with what has been an omnishambles in midfield at times. Miller seems to flit between being brilliant and awful depending on how the midfield is playing and the same must surely go for the rest of them in there.

[matty_f]

Stevenson's start to the season has been weird - apart from in Andorra (where he was simply terrible) he's actually been very good in between making a number of costly mistakes.

I don't think it's a season too far for him even though there seems to be a growing number of people who are of that belief. For a start it must be a nightmare playing fullback behind Youan, and I think our whole defence has been stretched with what has been an omnishambles in midfield at times. Miller seems to flit between being brilliant and awful depending on how the midfield is playing and the same must surely go for the rest of them in there.

That's fair :agree:

[Daily Hibs]

After more horrific defensive displays this season which they have both played a part in surely time is up for Hanlon and Stevenson.
Started a thread after the St Johnstone cup final that it was time for the manager to move both on before they were part of another squad that cost a manager his job.
Bit of a discussion then the usual pile on with the personal abuse stuff which achieved its aim and the thread was closed . Not only did Ross loose his job Maloney followed shortly after .
Both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner but that was way back in 2016.
Doesn’t matter how badly they play they still should play the following game according to team for next game threads which looks like sentiment playing a big part of it.
Johnson seems to be caught up in it as well and ultimately like others before him will pay for it by loosing his job.
Time for both to move on find new clubs / coaching jobs and if they are as good as some people think they are they will be back at Easter Road in the future.

Couldn't agree more. Those two hold us back like you can't imagine. It is 100% sentimentality purely based on the number of games they've played and nothing to do with their ability or lack of it.

Mistake after mistake year after year it's the same basic mistakes and big game let downs.

Hibs fans who defend them and hold them in this God like status hold the club back. They should have been released years ago, simply not good enough and not one is a leader.

[Onceinawhile]

So managers who live and die by results forget about their own self preservation and pick Hanlon and Stevenson based on some fan like sentiment. Aye, right.:greengrin

Exactly.

Not saying they've been perfect but the idea that managers and directors of football are saying:

"Never mind my kooshty job, the hibs fans love Stevenson and hanlon" is hilarious.

Especially as no one gives those two more abuse than hobs fans 🤣🤣

[Daily Hibs]

12 managers that mostly failed at Hibs & were sacked or mutually consented can't be wrong...or something?!

That is some statistic and not a good one.

[Onceinawhile]

Couldn't agree more. Those two hold us back like you can't imagine. It is 100% sentimentality purely based on the number of games they've played and nothing to do with their ability or lack of it.

Mistake after mistake year after year it's the same basic mistakes and big game let downs.

Hibs fans who defend them and hold them in this God like status hold the club back. They should have been released years ago, simply not good enough and not one is a leader.

So Lee Johnson and Brian mcdermott would rather play them and lose their job than do the incredibly easy job of signing someone better and winning far more games?

[Onceinawhile]

12 managers that mostly failed at Hibs & were sacked or mutually consented can't be wrong...or something?!

12 managers in 20 years is well in line with most teams.

But aye, it's Lewis and Paul's fault 🤣🤣

[Daily Hibs]

Hanlon is a bit younger than Lewis and is far from finished, IMHO.

What a shuddering thought that is.

[Daily Hibs]

So Lee Johnson and Brian mcdermott would rather play them and lose their job than do the incredibly easy job of signing someone better and winning far more games?
Well, it's on the club for sure and a serious lack of ambition keeping them around for as long as they have.

It's mind blowing that they are both starters at this point, they should have been long gone years ago with younger better players in their place who can take the club forward.

Keeping them around is 100% sentimentality.

[Liberal Hibby]

Couldn't agree more. Those two hold us back like you can't imagine. It is 100% sentimentality purely based on the number of games they've played and nothing to do with their ability or lack of it.

Mistake after mistake year after year it's the same basic mistakes and big game let downs.

Hibs fans who defend them and hold them in this God like status hold the club back. They should have been released years ago, simply not good enough and not one is a leader.

How many years ago should they have been released? When did the number of games they played start holding the club back? Should we set a limit of what 250 games as maximum anyone can play for Hibs?

What criteria do you have to define 'leader'? If it's clearly not experience (because you can't play too many games) what is it? Who should be captain instead of Hanlon? Who should be vice captain instead of Stevenson?

[wookie70]

Couldn't agree more. Those two hold us back like you can't imagine. It is 100% sentimentality purely based on the number of games they've played and nothing to do with their ability or lack of it.

Mistake after mistake year after year it's the same basic mistakes and big game let downs.

Hibs fans who defend them and hold them in this God like status hold the club back. They should have been released years ago, simply not good enough and not one is a leader.

At the moment they are the best left sided centre half and best left back we have. That means they most often start. It doesn't mean we don't need better. I don't think sentimentality comes into it in terms of their selection. Every player we have is making basic mistake after basic mistake. The ones who play closest to our goal tend to get punished for it. Every time Youan and Boyle give up good possession and don't chase back, most Jeggo passes, many throw ins, Campbel second touch a tackle. They are all the start of Hanlon and Stevenson and the other defenders making a mistake that costs a goal. The whole team is littered with players not playing consistently well who in their own way are contributing to us losing goals far too often. A t least Lewis has the good grace to look disgusted at himself and genuinely hurt at letting his team mates and himself down.

[matty_f]

What a shuddering thought that is.

Did you think Paul was older?

[K-Zazu]

Stevenson's start to the season has been weird - apart from in Andorra (where he was simply terrible) he's actually been very good in between making a number of costly mistakes.

I don't think it's a season too far for him even though there seems to be a growing number of people who are of that belief. For a start it must be a nightmare playing fullback behind Youan, and I think our whole defence has been stretched with what has been an omnishambles in midfield at times. Miller seems to flit between being brilliant and awful depending on how the midfield is playing and the same must surely go for the rest of them in there.

How can you be very good and at the same time make a number of costly mistakes? He’s not good enough.

[Liberal Hibby]

How can you be very good and at the same time make a number of costly mistakes? He’s not good enough.

Very easily - like a goalkeeper who makes ten fantastic saves and then chucks one in. The world class players are the ones who make very few mistakes and play at the top level consistently.

Everyone gets frustrated by Ellie Youan because they see the talent, but the decision making is often awry. If it wasn't he's be playing at a higher level than Hibs. Why do decent, highly professional and dedicated club servants not get the same treatment?

[tonyrougier123]

It’s the coaching staff that needs a shake! Setting these boys up to fail, at this point in the season just about every player has had a thread questioning their place in the side.

Look no further than the touchline for the problems.

Who’d be a hibs minded or academy player though jeez 🙄

Campbell Stevo and Hanlon take an absolute shelling on here.

Is it time both stevo and Hanlon were not relied on game on game,probably. folk need to see the bigger issue of simply not signing good competent defenders,and trying to figure why that is,personally I’m baffled.

[California-Hibs]

Couldn't agree more with the opening post. Absolutely spot on, but no doubt will upset a few who personally I feel let that sentiment blind true judgement.

It seems to be voiced more and more by folk, especially this season, and I again will say if we want to progress and better ourselves on the park then we need to sign and replace Hanlon and Stevenson from the team pronto.

Thanks for the memories, absolute Hibs legends, but the time has we'll and truly came to move on. Otherwise we'll continue to be so susceptible to conceding goals week after week after week from especially - crosses!

[Torto7]

I'm not wanting them to go I just want them to be treated like anyone else. Paul has made a series of clangers and is in one of his poor spells. Just drop him for a bit. Give one of the other guys a go. Lewis should be backup bench player.

[Liberal Hibby]

I'm not wanting them to go I just want them to be treated like anyone else. Paul has made a series of clangers and is in one of his poor spells. Just drop him for a bit. Give one of the other guys a go. Lewis should be backup bench player.

A back up player to who?

For the last three/four years that's been the plan and other than Doig he's been better than all the alternatives (on our budget).

[Donegal Hibby]

Couldn't agree more with the opening post. Absolutely spot on, but no doubt will upset a few who personally I feel let that sentiment blind true judgement.

It seems to be voiced more and more by folk, especially this season, and I again will say if we want to progress and better ourselves on the park then we need to sign and replace Hanlon and Stevenson from the team pronto.

Thanks for the memories, absolute Hibs legends, but the time has we'll and truly came to move on. Otherwise we'll continue to be so susceptible to conceding goals week after week after week from especially - crosses!

I dont think either should be moved on tbh . Hanlon's our captain and imo isn't making as many mistakes as Fish is since he came back who I'm not going to be too critical of either ! .

I would like to see us sign a LB tbh as I think on what I've seen of Obita so far he's probably better attacking than defending tbh ( much like Cadden imo ) .

Crosses certainly could at times be cut out or defended better though I honestly thought the first Villa goal was probably one of the best crosses since " HENDERSON TO DELIVER " one :greengrin

[HarpOnHibee]

So managers who live and die by results forget about their own self preservation and pick Hanlon and Stevenson based on some fan like sentiment. Aye, right.:greengrin

Or the managers are told by the club board that they won't fork our for suitable replacements as they want to attract fans to the games with marquee signings up front instead. Even if it results in a horribly unbalanced team with no hope of consistency.

[Frazerbob]

Or the managers are told by the club board that they won't fork our for suitable replacements as they want to attract fans to the games with marquee signings up front instead. Even if it results in a horribly unbalanced team with no hope of consistency.

Good grief

[MWHIBBIES]

That is some statistic and not a good one.

Totti saw off 17 managers at Roma.

It's **** all to do with Lewis and Paul's ability.

[Iain G]

12 managers in 20 years is well in line with most teams.

But aye, it's Lewis and Paul's fault 🤣🤣

I guess it's the same sentimentality that has fans clamouring for some of those 12 managers to come back to the club? 😁

[Since452]

Hanlon and Stevenson have both been a huge part in some of the most embarrassing results in our history. I've never rated either of them. Will no doubt get slaughtered for my opinion but that's what it is.

[sauzeelegod]

Agreed.
Both should be back ups now rather than starters.

[J-C]

Stevenson said 2 seasons ago that he knew he was in the twilight of his career and he seen his job as mentoring the Doig and Mackie, we brought in Cabraja last season as a ready made LB but we all know what happened after his father passed away, we then bring in Obita another ready made LB but for some reason LJ is playing him as a LW. Lewis knows he's not at this level any more but he'll run through brick walls for the club, he's doing his badges so let him mentor the young players and play Obita in his proper position.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hanlon and Stevenson have both been a huge part in some of the most embarrassing results in our history. I've never rated either of them. Will no doubt get slaughtered for my opinion but that's what it is.

Almost every player that's been here more than 5 minutes has been a part of an embarrassing defeat.

Lewis and Paul have been part of good results that well outweigh anything bad.

[JimBHibees]

Couldn't agree more. Those two hold us back like you can't imagine. It is 100% sentimentality purely based on the number of games they've played and nothing to do with their ability or lack of it.

Mistake after mistake year after year it's the same basic mistakes and big game let downs.

Hibs fans who defend them and hold them in this God like status hold the club back. They should have been released years ago, simply not good enough and not one is a leader.

Assume you haven't watched much of Hibs. God like status give it a rest. They have both served the club brilliantly and deserve a bit more respect. Both can still do a job however it is fair to question whether both should be starters every week.

[JimBHibees]

A back up player to who?

For the last three/four years that's been the plan and other than Doig he's been better than all the alternatives (on our budget).

Obita

[Cuikyhibs]

feels really wrong to criticize both of them, both club legends but their time as starters every week is up....and probably has been for at least a full season now

[Aldo]

Hanlon and Stevenson have both been a huge part in some of the most embarrassing results in our history. I've never rated either of them. Will no doubt get slaughtered for my opinion but that's what it is.

Fair do’s.

How did you rate them on 21/05/2016?? Pretty embarrassing day that.

Yes they have been part of TEAMS that have been beaten and relegated etc but as I highlighted it’s a TEAM game.

I agree that they need replaced however when LJ sets up a team like he did on Wed he needs his forward players to drop and help out. That didn’t happen on either flank and both fullbacks were totally exposed.

Either player doesn’t go out to deliberately play bad and they give their all.

With Lewis in particular the manager plays him Lewis won’t let the team or club down but if he’s constantly exposed etc then that’s his teammates and manager to assist with

[greenlex]

So managers who live and die by results forget about their own self preservation and pick Hanlon and Stevenson based on some fan like sentiment. Aye, right.:greengrin

This. Unless the recruitment team can actually get better in then they will play. Sentiment has nothing to do with it. At left back I think it’s time to give McIntyres some game time domestically to see how he gets on. Maybe not a full game but needs to be thrown in. The conundrum is we need points tho.

[Greenbeard]

I dont think either should be moved on tbh . Hanlon's our captain and imo isn't making as many mistakes as Fish is since he came back who I'm not going to be too critical of either ! .

I would like to see us sign a LB tbh as I think on what I've seen of Obita so far he's probably better attacking than defending tbh ( much like Cadden imo ) .

Crosses certainly could at times be cut out or defended better though I honestly thought the first Villa goal was probably one of the best crosses since " HENDERSON TO DELIVER " one :greengrin
Correct. But Hanlon has a wee stumble over his own feet as he shuffles backwards. It's only minor but enough to contribute to him becoming more detached from Watkins when he should be getting in tighter, and that gives Watkins the space and the opportunity to score with what was a cracking header.
I'm not saying Hanlon's doddery but he does seem to me to have lost a yard (another yard?) and by contrast with Stevenson, sometimes doesn't bust a gut to get back. To me that raises questions about his legs.
However, in all of this, none of us is party to the fitness data that the team management will have on these guys' respective performances in training and in matches. And I presume someone is monitoring their live data during matches. So they must still be thought to be up to the task.
However, the fitness monitors they wear don't monitor reaction time and it only takes a tenth of a second for someone like Watkins to get the run on you.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Some stats surrounding the team, and both players since we've been promoted back to prem. Last season was our worst goals against total in the 6 seasons.

22/23 - 5th placed finish 59 goals against PH 34 LS 28 games played
21/22 - 8th 42 goals PH 24 LS 23 games
20/21 - 3rd 35 goals PH 37 LS 22 games
19/20 - 7th 49 goals PH 30 LS 27 games
18/19 - 5th 39 goals PH 26 LS 34 games
17/18 - 4th 46 goals both 36 games

Is it sentiment? Or is it recruitment? We've tried to bring in replacements, particularly for LS but other than Doig nobody got close to taking that position

[Brightside]

Deja Vu. If anyone thinks we'd suddenly start winning more games if we drop these players why do the managers not do it? Are they all desperate to get fired? Hanlon wasn't supposed to play v Raith but the manager changed his mind before the game. So ask yourself why he's doing that? Why is he playing Stevenson in every game? Im sure he'd like a rest.

Paul and Lewis don't pick the team.

[Brightside]

Hanlon and Stevenson have both been a huge part in some of the most embarrassing results in our history. I've never rated either of them. Will no doubt get slaughtered for my opinion but that's what it is.

I'm not sure anyone cares how you rate them tbh. It really doesn't matter. What matters is that managers don't replace them. And even LJ knows more about football than us.

[Scooter]

I'm not sure why they're both always grouped together. Hanlon is a bit younger than Lewis and is far from finished, IMHO.

Stevenson has probably had the worst start to a season that I can remember, and at the moment it does look like this might be a season to far for him at this level.
I'd like to see the arm band taken back off Paul. That's nothing to do with him as a person, he's a worthy captain. But his performances were better last year after losing the armband to Marsh and then, seem to have dipped since getting the arm band back.

Is he taking on to much during matches worrying about other things than just concentrating on his own performance

[Frazerbob]

That is some statistic and not a good one.

It's not a statistic. Statistics are factual.

[Northernhibee]

I’d understand this if everyone else was playing well but by and large, the team isn’t. There’s a bigger problem than just a couple of players, and ignores that Will Fish has been much worse than both Lewis and Paul so far this season.

Other than that, if your argument is that we should look to get better players in then we’ve tried for a long time and they’ve seen them all off. It’s also an argument that’s true for any position in any team, you want to improve your squad.

If it’s an age thing, then the season before the one just completed, Lewis won PPOTY at the club. Paul had several nominations for PPOTY last season in the team. Age does of course eventually affect us all, but I don’t think the problems with our team are simply down to age. Aston Villa made it abundantly clear where our problems lie.

There are going to be a fair few people who don’t realise what we’ve got til it’s gone.

[SlickShoes]

Why would the manager risk their own job just to appease some random fans who have “sentiment” for these players?

Everyone against them playing says this nonsense about sentiment but there’s no factual basis for that, unless you have proof that someone higher up in hibs is mandating to all managers that these two play every game it’s total nonsense.

Our managers ultimate goal is to keep himself in a job, if he had better options he should use them, I would highly doubt he’s playing Lewis and Paul simply because he loves them or someone above him is telling him these two fairly average SPL level players must play at all costs.

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

[DIXIHIBS]

I'd like to see the arm band taken back off Paul. That's nothing to do with him as a person, he's a worthy captain. But his performances were better last year after losing the armband to Marsh and then, seem to have dipped since getting the arm band back.

Is he taking on to much during matches worrying about other things than just concentrating on his own performance

I agree with that. For some reason, certain players who may deserve to be captain, dont perform as well once they have been appointed. Pressure, try too hard etc. Maybe give the armband to...say newell...and see if it helps hanlon.

[Brightside]

I agree with that. For some reason, certain players who may deserve to be captain, dont perform as well once they have been appointed. Pressure, try too hard etc. Maybe give the armband to...say newell...and see if it helps hanlon.

I'd have no issue with Newell being captain but his back story and driving ban probably makes it difficult.

[portyhibernian]

The club now appears to be happy to spend a bit of cash on bringing players in so replacing a 35 year old left back should not be a problem, it is worrying to me that we have failed to do that. Hanlon probably good enough for the bench but should not be starting games anymore, I think he's a yard slower and seems to get caught high up the park more often these days. Harbottle must be worth a shot if we continue leaking goals at the current rate.

[Jones28]

Why has every manager - failure or success, since Collins not made a proper effort to replace Stevenson if he's so ****? There must be 12 or more left backs who have passed through the club and Stevenson has seen off every one of them except Doig.

Likewise with Hanlon, continually picked by numerous managers and only ever left out the team by Lennon who had Ambrose and Porteous. His partnership with Fish last season was very good, so less than 6 months ago and he's finished all of a sudden?

Yes they're special players, yes they're cup winning legends, yes they've been here their whole careers, but this means they get unfairly labelled with the "sentimentality" tag. It blinds those that are desperate to paint their being here as pure sentiment rather than actually basing anything on their ability.

It's time for Stevenson to be replaced, that's hardly his fault. Hanlon has still go time and experience on his side, and is more than deserving of his time on the pitch.

[greenpaper55]

Hanlon and Stevenson have both been a huge part in some of the most embarrassing results in our history. I've never rated either of them. Will no doubt get slaughtered for my opinion but that's what it is.

I agree, they seem to take week about to chuck in a goal against us, should have been long gone and for all of their supporters if they were so good why was there never a bid for either of them down the years ?

[Northernhibee]

I agree, they seem to take week about to chuck in a goal against us, should have been long gone and for all of their supporters if they were so good why was there never a bid for either of them down the years ?

If they were so terrible then why have so many managers had them as first team players?

[Brightside]

If they were so terrible then why have so many managers had them as first team players?

Its ok - they've been chucking goals in every week. :greengrin:greengrin

[Northernhibee]

Its ok - they've been chucking goals in every week. :greengrin:greengrin

Managers love that.

[Hiber-nation]

We haven't signed anyone better than them. In fact I don't think we've signed anyone for PH's position since Fonts back in 2015.

Blame the poor recruitment, not 2 Hibs legends.

[Since90+2]

I actually think Hanlon looks the older of the two, Stevenson still has that bullish aggression even at his age.

It's blatantly obvious both are finished at our level though, but that shouldn't take away from the good work they have done for the club and community over the years.

[Centre Hawf]

I think the club definitely needs to be looking at the process of replacing both of them sooner rather than later, but I would still love to hear from people who say they hold us back how many goals they're at fault for. Because I can assure you they are far from the worst culprits at this club just this season let alone the last 5.

[SickBoy32]

Thread simultaneously slating our best centre half and best full back

Honestly wonder what some folk are watching :confused:

Aye the defence needs improved, however that starts with replacing the weakest links first

[easty]

Thread simultaneously slating our best centre half and best full back

Honestly wonder what some folk are watching :confused:

Aye the defence needs improved, however that starts with replacing the weakest links first

:agree:

I'd happily replace all of the back line, but if I was picking the team I'd have Hanlon in before any other centre half we have, and I still think Lewis is a better left back than Miller is a right back.

[NAE NOOKIE]

:agree:

I'd happily replace all of the back line, but if I was picking the team I'd have Hanlon in before any other centre half we have, and I still think Lewis is a better left back than Miller is a right back.

To be fair to Miller he's still pretty raw at least at this level, there has been improvement and there's hope that will continue.

Hanlon has been up and down for a while, when he's up he's still a good CH at this level, when he's off form not so much. Like a lot of folk I would like to see someone else made captain, I think it might free him up a bit and he might rediscover his form from the latter part of last season.

Stevenson. I get the folk saying he is exposed by the way we are playing, but if we are going to continue that we simply need a quicker and competent LB who doesn't need so much help ... If Lewis is struggling all you can say is that it is his age, because if every player who has played for this club since he made his debut in 2006 / 7 had had half his courage, determination, brilliant attitude and almost mythical ability to stay free of injury, in spite of never once in his career shirking a 40/60, never mind 50/50 challenge, we would have won far more trophies than we have in that time.

But the fact is even if his form had been superb so far this season we still need a replacement for him, it's simply unfair to ask a 36 year old to play in so many games, especially in a position where he needs to get up and down the park constantly, Thursday was our 8th competitive game of the season already and it's not even September.

[McD]

Well, it's on the club for sure and a serious lack of ambition keeping them around for as long as they have.

It's mind blowing that they are both starters at this point, they should have been long gone years ago with younger better players in their place who can take the club forward.

Keeping them around is 100% sentimentality.



Who’s sentimentality? It’s not the manager’s, they won’t give a toss how many appearances or cups a player has won. The board may well like having legends around the place, but they’re not picking the team. It’s utter nonsense to say sentimentality is keeping them in the team, it stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever

[McD]

To be fair to Miller he's still pretty raw at least at this level, there has been improvement and there's hope that will continue.

Hanlon has been up and down for a while, when he's up he's still a good CH at this level, when he's off form not so much. Like a lot of folk I would like to see someone else made captain, I think it might free him up a bit and he might rediscover his form from the latter part of last season.

Stevenson. I get the folk saying he is exposed by the way we are playing, but if we are going to continue that we simply need a quicker and competent LB who doesn't need so much help ... If Lewis is struggling all you can say is that it is his age, because if every player who has played for this club since he made his debut in 2006 / 7 had had half his courage, determination, brilliant attitude and almost mythical ability to stay free of injury, in spite of never once in his career shirking a 40/60, never mind 50/50 challenge, we would have won far more trophies than we have in that time.

But the fact is even if his form had been superb so far this season we still need a replacement for him, it's simply unfair to ask a 36 year old to play in so many games, especially in a position where he needs to get up and down the park constantly, Thursday was our 8th competitive game of the season already and it's not even September.



:applause: great post

[Smartie]

To be fair to Miller he's still pretty raw at least at this level, there has been improvement and there's hope that will continue.

Hanlon has been up and down for a while, when he's up he's still a good CH at this level, when he's off form not so much. Like a lot of folk I would like to see someone else made captain, I think it might free him up a bit and he might rediscover his form from the latter part of last season.

Stevenson. I get the folk saying he is exposed by the way we are playing, but if we are going to continue that we simply need a quicker and competent LB who doesn't need so much help ... If Lewis is struggling all you can say is that it is his age, because if every player who has played for this club since he made his debut in 2006 / 7 had had half his courage, determination, brilliant attitude and almost mythical ability to stay free of injury, in spite of never once in his career shirking a 40/60, never mind 50/50 challenge, we would have won far more trophies than we have in that time.

But the fact is even if his form had been superb so far this season we still need a replacement for him, it's simply unfair to ask a 36 year old to play in so many games, especially in a position where he needs to get up and down the park constantly, Thursday was our 8th competitive game of the season already and it's not even September.

It's a shame Miller's a RB and not LB as he and Stevenson would be the perfect combination for the same position - raw, younger player who needs a bit of guidance and regular football without being thrown in at the deep end every week and the older but handy player who still has a big role to play on the park, can't play every week but would probably relish the role of helping a younger player learn his trade.

[WhileTheChief..]

Hanlon and Stevenson have both been a huge part in some of the most embarrassing results in our history. I've never rated either of them. Will no doubt get slaughtered for my opinion but that's what it is.

They’ve been good servants to the club but both have always been bog standard, average players in our league.

Never been great, never been awful.

Same as our club in their time with us.

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm not sure anyone cares how you rate them tbh. It really doesn't matter. What matters is that managers don't replace them. And even LJ knows more about football than us.

Speak for yourself :greengrin

[LancsHibs]

After more horrific defensive displays this season which they have both played a part in surely time is up for Hanlon and Stevenson.
Started a thread after the St Johnstone cup final that it was time for the manager to move both on before they were part of another squad that cost a manager his job.
Bit of a discussion then the usual pile on with the personal abuse stuff which achieved its aim and the thread was closed . Not only did Ross loose his job Maloney followed shortly after .
Both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner but that was way back in 2016.
Doesn’t matter how badly they play they still should play the following game according to team for next game threads which looks like sentiment playing a big part of it.
Johnson seems to be caught up in it as well and ultimately like others before him will pay for it by loosing his job.
Time for both to move on find new clubs / coaching jobs and if they are as good as some people think they are they will be back at Easter Road in the future.

Not read through the replies but 100% agree, both should have been replaced at least a couple of seasons ago. Not the only weak links in our team but neither good enough for where we want to be. Will be a sad day when none of the 2016 cup heroes are about but needs greatly must!
Couldn’t see either walking into any other SPL team to be honest which says it all.

[Brightside]

To be fair to Miller he's still pretty raw at least at this level, there has been improvement and there's hope that will continue.

Hanlon has been up and down for a while, when he's up he's still a good CH at this level, when he's off form not so much. Like a lot of folk I would like to see someone else made captain, I think it might free him up a bit and he might rediscover his form from the latter part of last season.

Stevenson. I get the folk saying he is exposed by the way we are playing, but if we are going to continue that we simply need a quicker and competent LB who doesn't need so much help ... If Lewis is struggling all you can say is that it is his age, because if every player who has played for this club since he made his debut in 2006 / 7 had had half his courage, determination, brilliant attitude and almost mythical ability to stay free of injury, in spite of never once in his career shirking a 40/60, never mind 50/50 challenge, we would have won far more trophies than we have in that time.

But the fact is even if his form had been superb so far this season we still need a replacement for him, it's simply unfair to ask a 36 year old to play in so many games, especially in a position where he needs to get up and down the park constantly, Thursday was our 8th competitive game of the season already and it's not even September.

If we really want to stop losing so many goal we have to stop being so gung-ho. But this is what we are signed up to. Our whole defence is massively exposed in the transition but you only stop that by changing the way we are playing. We can keep changing CHs all year - it won't make any difference.

[Smartie]

If we really want to stop losing so many goal we have to stop being so gung-ho. But this is what we are signed up to. Our whole defence is massively exposed in the transition but you only stop that by changing the way we are playing. We can keep changing CHs all year - it won't make any difference.

:top marks

[flash]

One thing I know, regardless of whether they should be in the team, is they would both run through a brick wall for our club.

That has to be worth something surely.

You can visually see how much Lewis cares.

[tamh]

Except it's on the right side that we seem to be losing most of the goals.

Let's have a sensible debate here. Are they finished? No - they both have something to offer. Should the club have a proper succession strategy? Yes obviously. But there are too many who look at the goals against column and use it as a stick to beat these guys with - to the point of not even seeing where the goals are coming from.
Some sense at last:agree::agree::agree:

[LunasBoots]

I look at teams like Aberdeen and Kilmarnock, changing things can stop us from conceding goals if we sign the correct personal to improve on certain players who've been here a long time.

[greenpaper55]

Some sense at last:agree::agree::agree:

What about Lewis v Motherwell, what about Hanlon v the Swiss in Lucerne ?

[jacomo]

Deja Vu. If anyone thinks we'd suddenly start winning more games if we drop these players why do the managers not do it? Are they all desperate to get fired? Hanlon wasn't supposed to play v Raith but the manager changed his mind before the game. So ask yourself why he's doing that? Why is he playing Stevenson in every game? Im sure he'd like a rest.

Paul and Lewis don't pick the team.


:agree:

It was obvious when Josh Doig was here that Lewis is now a squad player - and a good one at that. It’s hardly his fault that there’s no one better in the squad.

I had assumed Obita was signed as a left back given it’s obvious that was a priority position, I’m at a loss to explain that one.

[Smartie]

I look at teams like Aberdeen and Kilmarnock, changing things can stop us from conceding goals if we sign the correct personal to improve on certain players who've been here a long time.

I know less about what happened at Kilmarnock but I'm pretty sure Aberdeen will have changed more than just personnel - they changed their manager, which will have had an impact on their tactical approach.

Replacing Stevenson and Hanlon would appease some of the "heads on sticks" brigade but in the absence of other changes I'm not convinced it would have any sort of impact on our goals against column.

[h1bs4life]

Fair do’s.

How did you rate them on 21/05/2016?? Pretty embarrassing day that.

Yes they have been part of TEAMS that have been beaten and relegated etc but as I highlighted it’s a TEAM game.

I agree that they need replaced however when LJ sets up a team like he did on Wed he needs his forward players to drop and help out. That didn’t happen on either flank and both fullbacks were totally exposed.

Either player doesn’t go out to deliberately play bad and they give their all.

With Lewis in particular the manager plays him Lewis won’t let the team or club down but if he’s constantly exposed etc then that’s his teammates and manager to assist with



My original post mentioned cup winning legends 2016 that was 7 years ago !!!.
They were both involved in the 2012 cup final then Malmo at home in Europe , relegation with 3 years in the championship, numerous hopeless teams that got managers sacked, numerous derby defeats including 2 3-0 defeats last season and this season 2nd worst European defeat for a Scottish team based on co-efficient to go with the worst against Malmo.
Since Stevenson's 1st league start in 2006/7 Hanlon's 1st league start was 2008/09 Hibs have finished 3rd once in the league ( twice if you include the 3rd in the championship ) relegated , then 3 years in the championship.
While all not just down to them they have been part of the squads and played apart in all of them ever other player in theses squads are long go.
We have changed lots of managers went through a lot of players and even changed ownership
I have no doubt they give there best when selected but above stats say to me both should have been moved on long before now.
No idea what Totti has to do with seeing of more managers than them , discussion is about Hanlon and Stevenson

[Aldo]

My original post mentioned cup winning legends 2016 that was 7 years ago !!!.
They were both involved in the 2012 cup final then Malmo at home in Europe , relegation with 3 years in the championship, numerous hopeless teams that got managers sacked, numerous derby defeats including 2 3-0 defeats last season and this season 2nd worst European defeat for a Scottish team based on co-efficient to go with the worst against Malmo.
Since Stevenson's 1st league start in 2006/7 Hanlon's 1st league start was 2008/09 Hibs have finished 3rd once in the league ( twice if you include the 3rd in the championship ) relegated , then 3 years in the championship.
While all not just down to them they have been part of the squads and played apart in all of them ever other player in theses squads are long go.
We have changed lots of managers went through a lot of players and even changed ownership
I have no doubt they give there best when selected but above stats say to me both should have been moved on long before now.
No idea what Totti has to do with seeing of more managers than them , discussion is about Hanlon and Stevenson

I agreed they needed replaced and who mentioned Totti??

[Allant1981]

Thread simultaneously slating our best centre half and best full back

Honestly wonder what some folk are watching :confused:

Aye the defence needs improved, however that starts with replacing the weakest links first

To be fair, the way Stevenson has played at times he is the weak link

[Daily Hibs]

Totti saw off 17 managers at Roma.

It's **** all to do with Lewis and Paul's ability.

Mentioning those two in the same sentence with Totti is the craziest thing I've ever read on here.

Head in the sand stuff.

[K-Zazu]

Has anyone got the list of left backs Stevenson has had to compete with say last 5/6 years? Would just be interesting to see who we have signed to play there? I can only think of Doig, Cabraja .. Mackie?

[scoopyboy]

I never understand why they get judged as a pair.

They are individuals and for me should be judged separately

[Smartie]

I never understand why they get judged as a pair.

They are individuals and for me should be judged separately

It's a really weird phenomenon, you're absolutely right.

Like one should be finished at the same time as the other.

Apart from anything else, their different ages and positions should lead to their suitability to be playing in their respective positions being considered separately.

[LewysGot2]

Yesterday evening four of Villa's five goals came from attacking our right side. Hanlon and Stevenson defended the left side quite well. They're not beyond criticism, but to see them as major weaknesses is incomprehensible to me.

Indeed. Lewis Miller and Martin Boyle are definitely escaping scrutiny….Lucas Digne wasn’t up against Stevenson or Hanlon when he had all the time in the world to ping in precision crosses. I know we needed to be compact but they unpicked the lock too easily because of the space and time they had.

However, I’m not sure we should decide the fate of anyone against the side who will more than likely win this competition.

[LewysGot2]

:agree:

I'd happily replace all of the back line, but if I was picking the team I'd have Hanlon in before any other centre half we have, and I still think Lewis is a better left back than Miller is a right back.

And that’s actually it in a nutshell. :agree:

[Prof. Shaggy]

Mentioning those two in the same sentence with Totti is the craziest thing I've ever read on here.

Head in the sand stuff.

In context it makes good sense?

[Prof. Shaggy]

So managers who live and die by results forget about their own self preservation and pick Hanlon and Stevenson based on some fan like sentiment. Aye, right.:greengrin

:agree:
The thread should have closed at this point.

[greenpaper55]

Looking back at the comments on here it’s obvious that some of you have never seen a good defender, this pair have got away with murder in no small part to the constant changes of managers and they then proceed to help the new one get sacked ! As for Hanlon as a captain a dead sheep would give more inspiration to the team than he’d does.

[Since452]

:agree:
The thread should have closed at this point.

Why should the thread close? We have a thread demanding our manager goes and another demanding an ex manager returns. People are allowed opinions.

[easty]

Has anyone got the list of left backs Stevenson has had to compete with say last 5/6 years? Would just be interesting to see who we have signed to play there? I can only think of Doig, Cabraja .. Mackie?

Obita this season, Cabraja last season, before that Doig, then Nelom?

[RMQ1967]

After more horrific defensive displays this season which they have both played a part in surely time is up for Hanlon and Stevenson.
Started a thread after the St Johnstone cup final that it was time for the manager to move both on before they were part of another squad that cost a manager his job.
Bit of a discussion then the usual pile on with the personal abuse stuff which achieved its aim and the thread was closed . Not only did Ross loose his job Maloney followed shortly after .
Both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner but that was way back in 2016.
Doesn’t matter how badly they play they still should play the following game according to team for next game threads which looks like sentiment playing a big part of it.
Johnson seems to be caught up in it as well and ultimately like others before him will pay for it by loosing his job.
Time for both to move on find new clubs / coaching jobs and if they are as good as some people think they are they will be back at Easter Road in the future.

I've been reading stuff like this about Lewis and to a lesser extent Hanlon for what seems about 10 years now.

2 heroes that are regularly singled out when most of the players around them are doing no better.

99.9% of people on forums should accept they don't really know anything about managing a football team & their 'opinions' are a level below TV pundits in the scale of pointless waffle.

[Daily Hibs]

Looking back at the comments on here it’s obvious that some of you have never seen a good defender, this pair have got away with murder in no small part to the constant changes of managers and they then proceed to help the new one get sacked ! As for Hanlon as a captain a dead sheep would give more inspiration to the team than he’d does.

Yep, they have held the club back and there is a reason they have stayed at thd club for so long. No one else has wanted them and they now they are comfortable at the club.

It is nuts that all the failures in games that really matter are all forgotten about.

With all the trips to hampden its a travesty we only have 2016 SC to show for it and that's in the last 10 years alone!

They get mentioned as a pair because they have both been in the team for all of it. Nobody can tell me they've been good enough for the club all these years. I think fans are starting to realise that now.

[jakedance]

I’m all for the club improving every position but I don’t get why the criticism is building on LS when he’s the best full back at the club. We know he isn’t an attacking full back but he’s a solid, dependable 7/10 every week who doesn’t lose many battles and there are several positions that need addressing before his.

[Smartie]

Yep, they have held the club back and there us a reason they have stayed at thd club fof so long. No one else has wanted them and they now they are comfortable at the club.

It is nuts that all the failures in games that really matter are all forgotten about.

With all the trips to hampden its a travesty we only have 2016 SC to show for it and that's in the last 10 years alone!

They get mentioned as a pair because of everything abo

How does the period with "this pair" in the team, with all the trips to Hampden and the 2016 Scottish Cup win compare to similar periods in our history without them in the team? Trips to Hampden more or less frequent? More or less Scottish Cup wins?

[Smartie]

I’m all for the club improving every position but I don’t get why the criticism is building on LS when he’s the best full back at the club. We know he isn’t an attacking full back but he’s a solid, dependable 7/10 every week who doesn’t lose many battles and there are several positions that need addressing before his.

Spot on.

I just wish he'd go 90 minutes without shooting himself in the foot though, he's making it harder to defend him.

[Daily Hibs]

I’m all for the club improving every position but I don’t get why the criticism is building on LS when he’s the best full back at the club. We know he isn’t an attacking full back but he’s a solid, dependable 7/10 every week who doesn’t lose many battles and there are several positions that need addressing before his.

The season is very young but already his mistakes are mounting up. Motherwell Away and Raith at home to name a couple.

[Daily Hibs]

How does the period with "this pair" in the team, with all the trips to Hampden and the 2016 Scottish Cup win compare to similar periods in our history without them in the team? Trips to Hampden more or less frequent? More or less Scottish Cup wins?

Over the last 10 years we've had an incredible number of trips to Hampden for the club. We havent really capitalised on it fully. For as good as 2016 was, we have underacheived.

[Smartie]

Over the last 10 years we've had an incredible number of trips to Hampden for the club. We havent really capitalised on it fully. For as good as 2016 was, we have underacheived.

I accept that and I was frustrated by the missed opportunities.

But I think that those at Hibs who contributed towards getting us closer to actual success deserve a bit of credit for that.

For all the anger that's flying around currently, we find ourselves a home tie against St Mirren away from another Hampden trip in a competition that has already seen the best team in the country knocked out.

[Daily Hibs]

I accept that and I was frustrated by the missed opportunities.

But I think that those at Hibs who contributed towards getting us closer to actual success deserve a bit of credit for that.

For all the anger that's flying around currently, we find ourselves a home tie against St Mirren away from another Hampden trip in a competition that has already seen the best team in the country knocked out.

It would be really great if we could capitalise on that. We are due a LC win. Would be nice. I'd be getting in McInnes to deliver that though!

[Prof. Shaggy]

Why should the thread close? We have a thread demanding our manager goes and another demanding an ex manager returns. People are allowed opinions.

It’s a metaphor.

[the_ginger_hibee]

I’m all for the club improving every position but I don’t get why the criticism is building on LS when he’s the best full back at the club. We know he isn’t an attacking full back but he’s a solid, dependable 7/10 every week who doesn’t lose many battles and there are several positions that need addressing before his.

Doesn't lose many battles? Come on now. Season is 2 league games old and he's already lost key battles leading to goals.

LS and PH are good enough if your aspirations are low. 7/10 on a good day is nowhere near enough if we as a club have aspirations of European group stage football and trophies.

[McD]

Looking back at the comments on here it’s obvious that some of you have never seen a good defender, this pair have got away with murder in no small part to the constant changes of managers and they then proceed to help the new one get sacked ! As for Hanlon as a captain a dead sheep would give more inspiration to the team than he’d does.


You make it sound like they’ve been conning the club somehow


These 2 players are getting everything bad for the last 10+ years hung on them, yet little criticism for a succession of managers who’ve failed to find better replacements. Neither player has picked themselves, or targeted and acquired better alternatives.

Worth noting both have been capped for Scotland whilst Hibs players, so presumably Scotland managers don’t know decent footballers either… ffs

[Jones28]

You make it sound like they’ve been conning the club somehow


These 2 players are getting everything bad for the last 10+ years hung on them, yet little criticism for a succession of managers who’ve failed to find better replacements. Neither player has picked themselves, or targeted and acquired better alternatives.

Worth noting both have been capped for Scotland whilst Hibs players, so presumably Scotland managers don’t know decent footballers either… ffs

That’s a proper stinker of a comment, well done for highlighting it.

“Getting away with murder”, Jeezy peeps mon.

[the_ginger_hibee]

You make it sound like they’ve been conning the club somehow


These 2 players are getting everything bad for the last 10+ years hung on them, yet little criticism for a succession of managers who’ve failed to find better replacements. Neither player has picked themselves, or targeted and acquired better alternatives.

Worth noting both have been capped for Scotland whilst Hibs players, so presumably Scotland managers don’t know decent footballers either… ffs

Very tenuous using their solitary Scotland cap as any type of justification for them being good enough for Hibs today. Good achievement for them personally but one got in due to a covid outbreak & the other as half the team were on a end of season break. Good moment for them but no indication of their quality at all.

[Jones28]

Very tenuous using their solitary Scotland cap as any type of justification for them being good enough for Hibs today. Good achievement for them personally but one got in due to a covid outbreak & the other as half the team were on a end of season break. Good moment for them but no indication of their quality at all.

In the context of them “conning the club for years” it’s fair enough to point out they’ve each been called up for Scotland in that period no?

[h1bs4life]

I've been reading stuff like this about Lewis and to a lesser extent Hanlon for what seems about 10 years now.

2 heroes that are regularly singled out when most of the players around them are doing no better.

99.9% of people on forums should accept they don't really know anything about managing a football team & their 'opinions' are a level below TV pundits in the scale of pointless waffle.

Over the last 10 years all the players that are doing no better have correctly been moved on .
1 3rd place in the top flight since the have been 1st team regulars , terrible derby record, relegations , 3 years in the championship and another European record again this season since these 2 ‘ heroes’ have been here.
People waffling with no actual points to make

[Daily Hibs]

You make it sound like they’ve been conning the club somehow


These 2 players are getting everything bad for the last 10+ years hung on them, yet little criticism for a succession of managers who’ve failed to find better replacements. Neither player has picked themselves, or targeted and acquired better alternatives.

Worth noting both have been capped for Scotland whilst Hibs players, so presumably Scotland managers don’t know decent footballers either… ffs

Thats precisely the name of the thread. Take the sentiment out of it... How many competitive caps do they have for Scotland? Maybe if they were that good they'd have played in competitive games for Scotland?

They might have played all these games for the club but it doesnt mean they've been good enough, no where near it on many occasions.

The way I see it is our fanbase is split. Half are happy just getting to Hampden and see that as success along with having these two as one club men racking appearances and regarding them as legends.

Thd other half want the club to be more ambitious and look at only winning one trophy in 15 years as underachieving whilst also regarding Leey and Hanlon ad not good enough.

St Jonnstone won both cups in the same season. St Johnstone. With our turnover now and one of the biggest clubs in Scotland we should be winning more.

[Daily Hibs]

That’s a proper stinker of a comment, well done for highlighting it.

“Getting away with murder”, Jeezy peeps mon.

They have gotten away with murder though. Season after season. Important game after important game.

You cant possibly be happy with only one trophy in 15 years?

[Jones28]

They have gotten away with murder though. Season after season. Important game after important game.

You cant possibly be happy with only one trophy in 15 years?

Well we’ve got 2 in 16, so I’ll take a wee liberty and extend that time period. Stevenson was MOTM in that game btw.

I’m not happy with that record, but I don’t think Hanlon and Stevenson are symptomatic of that. Every Hibs team since the 50’s has underachieved in that context.

I’d love to win more cups, wouldn’t we all? I do not agree at all that we would have won more without those two in the team.

The idea that they don’t turn up in big games is complete *****. They’ve turned up in big games that we’ve won haven’t they?

[truehibernian]

I've been reading stuff like this about Lewis and to a lesser extent Hanlon for what seems about 10 years now.

2 heroes that are regularly singled out when most of the players around them are doing no better.

99.9% of people on forums should accept they don't really know anything about managing a football team & their 'opinions' are a level below TV pundits in the scale of pointless waffle.

Yes, they are club legends but devil’s advocate- how about replacing them with two younger, stronger, more skilful players who could raise the levels of the other defenders next to them ?

They’re top pros that’s never in question- but this side needs totally refreshed at the back and for me they’re not first picks anymore and shouldn’t be. That’s a recruiting failure.

[h1bs4life]

You make it sound like they’ve been conning the club somehow


These 2 players are getting everything bad for the last 10+ years hung on them, yet little criticism for a succession of managers who’ve failed to find better replacements. Neither player has picked themselves, or targeted and acquired better alternatives.

Worth noting both have been capped for Scotland whilst Hibs players, so presumably Scotland managers don’t know decent footballers either… ffs

Criticism of the managers that have picked them , they have all lost there jobs and all taken loads of criticism
Also worth noting that Hanlon has 23 under 21 caps ( 4 th best ) to a solitary Scotland cap which would maybe indicate that Scotland managers thought he was good playing with players his own age but has not developed enough to play full internationals.

[greenlex]

Yes, they are club legends but devil’s advocate- how about replacing them with two younger, stronger, more skilful players who could raise the levels of the other defenders next to them ?

They’re top pros that’s never in question- but this side needs totally refreshed at the back and for me they’re not first picks anymore and shouldn’t be. That’s a recruiting failure.

On a limited budget there has always been more pressing needs in other positions. That’s the long and the short if it. The least of our worries is a correctly well worn phrase. Replacing them is a sticking plaster solution. Even now if the midfield was more flexible and robust then I doubt they would even be getting a mention. That’s where the limited players are.

[scoopyboy]

Over the last 10 years all the players that are doing no better have correctly been moved on .
1 3rd place in the top flight since the have been 1st team regulars , terrible derby record, relegations , 3 years in the championship and another European record again this season since these 2 ‘ heroes’ have been here.
People waffling with no actual points to make

Here's an actual point then.

Given their terrible records for Hibs name any Hibs player that has played in more Scottish Cup finals than the flops?

Once you've done that try the same with League Cup finals.

Any player in the history of Hibernian FC so basically 148 years to choose from.

[jakedance]

Doesn't lose many battles? Come on now. Season is 2 league games old and he's already lost key battles leading to goals.

LS and PH are good enough if your aspirations are low. 7/10 on a good day is nowhere near enough if we as a club have aspirations of European group stage football and trophies.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m very critical of this team and manager but, right now, I’d prioritise a new goalkeeper, centre half, right back and every midfield position before a new left back.

[Aldo]

Criticism of the managers that have picked them , they have all lost there jobs and all taken loads of criticism
Also worth noting that Hanlon has 23 under 21 caps ( 4 th best ) to a solitary Scotland cap which would maybe indicate that Scotland managers thought he was good playing with players his own age but has not developed enough to play full internationals.

Your last sentence is so disrespectful to PH.

Why would any Hibs fan dis a player because they’ve only got one Scotland Cap.

Next you’ll be saying he’s not good enough because he’s been at Hibs his whole career.

[truehibernian]

On a limited budget there has always been more pressing needs in other positions. That’s the long and the short if it. The least of our worries. Even now if the midfield was more flexible and robust then I doubt they would even be getting a mention. That’s where the limited players are.

I don’t disagree Lex, I was a (limited) midfielder and it’s an area of the pitch where games are won and lost for me - and a crucial area we’ve got badly wrong for a few seasons.

I’ve often lauded Lewy as I genuinely think he’s been very underrated over the years, particularly technically - he’s been one of the most technically good players I’ve seen at the club, taking the ball under pressure, being available for the pass, fitness, etc.

But the years are catching up on them both at domestic level too.

[Daily Hibs]

Well we’ve got 2 in 16, so I’ll take a wee liberty and extend that time period. Stevenson was MOTM in that game btw.


Another token gesture that really means nothing but has become more folklore than us actually winning the trophy. Its a bit like them getting 20 mins for Scotland in a friendly. Do any other clubs who win man of the match when winning a trophy actually remember who it was?

Benji and Fletcher both scored twice in that final and we had Scott Brown in centre of midfield that day running the show.

[h1bs4life]

Here's an actual point then.

Given their terrible records for Hibs name any Hibs player that has played in more Scottish Cup finals than the flops?

Once you've done that try the same with League Cup finals.

Any player in the history of Hibernian FC so basically 148 years to choose from.

Well done just proved my point .Sentiment .

[Brightside]

Looking back at the comments on here it’s obvious that some of you have never seen a good defender, this pair have got away with murder in no small part to the constant changes of managers and they then proceed to help the new one get sacked ! As for Hanlon as a captain a dead sheep would give more inspiration to the team than he’d does.

Thats such a stupid post. There are people on this forum that clearly know more about a footballer player than you ever will. Go and actually speak to some players about if they are inspired by these 2.

[scoopyboy]

Well done just proved my point .Sentiment .

No dice, you said they've been poor players for the club in their Hibs careers.

Just answer the question eh

[Brightside]

They have gotten away with murder though. Season after season. Important game after important game.

You cant possibly be happy with only one trophy in 15 years?

NO they haven't got away with murder. Stop talking pish man. If people want to debate a performance just do that instead of coming out with this garbage

[Daily Hibs]

NO they haven't got away with murder. Stop talking pish man. If people want to debate a performance just do that instead of coming out with this garbage

Here's a performance to take a look at - Tynecastle May 2018 when we are chasing 2nd. Lewy at fault for both goals and it was no Lennon loses it after.

[Brightside]

Yes, they are club legends but devil’s advocate- how about replacing them with two younger, stronger, more skilful players who could raise the levels of the other defenders next to them ?

They’re top pros that’s never in question- but this side needs totally refreshed at the back and for me they’re not first picks anymore and shouldn’t be. That’s a recruiting failure.

no one is saying they shouldnt be replaced. But they aren't the reason we haven't won more trophies. This whole thread is stinking tbh. We should replace the whole team BUT we cannot afford that. Maybe HIBS4life can pony up a bit more and then we can get another 5 or 6 players in.

[Brightside]

Here's a performance to take a look at - Tynecastle May 2018 when we are chasing 2nd. Lewy at fault for both goals and it was no Lennon loses it after.

And I'll find poor performances from every single player thats ever played for Hibs. Its just a stupid point to make.

[h1bs4life]

Your last sentence is so disrespectful to PH.

Why would any Hibs fan dis a player because they’ve only got one Scotland Cap.

Next you’ll be saying he’s not good enough because he’s been at Hibs his whole career.


Not sure how I am disrespecting Paul Hanlon it is facts, like other things posted
Nowhere have I disrespected either player , they seem decent guys.
The thread is about sentiment .

[Smartie]

I don’t disagree Lex, I was a (limited) midfielder and it’s an area of the pitch where games are won and lost for me - and a crucial area we’ve got badly wrong for a few seasons.

I’ve often lauded Lewy as I genuinely think he’s been very underrated over the years, particularly technically - he’s been one of the most technically good players I’ve seen at the club, taking the ball under pressure, being available for the pass, fitness, etc.

But the years are catching up on them both at domestic level too.

There's the subjective opinion that all of us will have from watching these players play.

But in these days of sports science, data and analysis, would Hanlon and Stevenson still be playing as much as they are if there was any suggestion that their stats - stats you'd assume Johnson will have at his fingertips - were in serious decline?

If Johnson can make points to Fish about being chased by a lion, should be not have similar stats in order to justify the inclusion or exclusion of Stevenson and Hanlon?

There will be raw data regarding just how much the years are catching up with these players.

[Aldo]

There are some real real haters of Paul Hanlon and Lewis Stevenson on this board right now and they are all in plain sight. Their best days maybe behind them but they both have and still do give 100% for the club.

Many on here are slating them for their mistakes whilst others seem to be devoid of criticism.

Both these players have given the fans sone of the best moments as Hibs fans yet sone seem to just ignore this and say sentiment is shadowing our judgement of them.

Total disrespect for 2 absolute legends of Hibernian football club and for me their names are up their along with the Reilly’s and Turnbull (both PH and LS achieved something they never did).

Yes everyone is allowed their opinion but to totally ignore and disrespect what these 2 players have done for the club should hang their heads in shame. Call yourself Hibs fans.

Before you say sentiment is getting in the way, maybe it is and yes they should have been replaced over the years but some are just beyond belief!

Rant Over

[h1bs4life]

no one is saying they shouldnt be replaced. But they aren't the reason we haven't won more trophies. This whole thread is stinking tbh. We should replace the whole team BUT we cannot afford that. Maybe HIBS4life can pony up a bit more and then we can get another 5 or 6 players in.

Getting upset about a discussion about Paul Hanlon who would have thought that would have happened

[Aldo]

Not sure how I am disrespecting Paul Hanlon it is facts, like other things posted
Nowhere have I disrespected either player , they seem decent guys.
The thread is about sentiment .

By saying he only got one international cap because he wasn’t developed enough.

My take and interpretation is. Sentiment or nit you dismiss what he’s done and look at the negatives.

[Brightside]

Getting upset about a discussion about Paul Hanlon who would have thought that would have happened

Say something that has some logic then man. Replace him with who? We do not have a better CB than Paul Hanlon. So go and get us one.

[truehibernian]

Here's an actual point then.

Given their terrible records for Hibs name any Hibs player that has played in more Scottish Cup finals than the flops?

Once you've done that try the same with League Cup finals.

Any player in the history of Hibernian FC so basically 148 years to choose from.

Thing is Scoopy, for me anyway, I’d never ever question their final CV or indeed their passion or love for the club. They’ve achieved great things.

But football now is cut throat and teams evolve at a pace that wasn’t the case years ago - testimonials will be a thing of the past. Players are younger, fitter, faster and stronger - year on year - to really compete, you need to match the competition. I honestly can’t believe we are still playing half a defence from 7 years ago in 2023, and expecting the same levels. Other sides evolve, Hibs seem to delay the inevitable.

They’re both legends and worthy of accolade - but they both need replaced (in the starting 11). If not, you’ve really got to question recruitment.

I was at Paul’s debut when he was MotM v Caley, and he’s been excellent for the club on and off the field, class lad too. But he’s now not a first pick for me, and Lewy is having a mare or a season already. We need much better if we really want 3rd.

[h1bs4life]

There are some real real haters of Paul Hanlon and Lewis Stevenson on this board right now and they are all in plain sight. Their best days maybe behind them but they both have and still do give 100% for the club.

Many on here are slating them for their mistakes whilst others seem to be devoid of criticism.

Both these players have given the fans sone of the best moments as Hibs fans yet sone seem to just ignore this and say sentiment is shadowing our judgement of them.

Total disrespect for 2 absolute legends of Hibernian football club and for me their names are up their along with the Reilly’s and Turnbull (both PH and LS achieved something they never did).

Yes everyone is allowed their opinion but to totally ignore and disrespect what these 2 players have done for the club should hang their heads in shame. Call yourself Hibs fans.

Before you say sentiment is getting in the way, maybe it is and yes they should have been replaced over the years but sone of the count T’s are beyond belief!

Rant Over

Call yourself Hibs fans ?you are a scream.
Hang your heads in shame , do you watch many games ? You been going for a few years ?

[Aldo]

Call yourself Hibs fans ?you are a scream.
Hang your heads in shame , do you watch many games ? You been going for a few years ?

Ha ha.

Yes I am and I do.

Been going to ER since the 70’s.
As I said it’s easy to pick up on mistakes but really really hard to give players credit where credits due. You and others seem to be all over mistakes yet fail to give credit where it’s due.

[h1bs4life]

By saying he only got one international cap because he wasn’t developed enough.

My take and interpretation is. Sentiment or nit you dismiss what he’s done and look at the negatives.

Dismissed what he has done , try reading what is being posted .
Thread going the same way as many before , personal abuse

[scoopyboy]

Thing is Scoopy, for me anyway, I’d never ever question their final CV or indeed their passion or love for the club. They’ve achieved great things.

But football now is cut throat and teams evolve at a pace that wasn’t the case years ago - testimonials will be a thing of the past. Players are younger, fitter, faster and stronger - year on year - to really compete, you need to match the competition. I honestly can’t believe we are still playing half a defence from 7 years ago in 2023, and expecting the same levels. Other sides evolve, Hibs seem to delay the inevitable.

They’re both legends and worthy of accolade - but they both need replaced (in the starting 11). If not, you’ve really got to question recruitment.

I was at Paul’s debut when he was MotM v Caley, and he’s been excellent for the club on and off the field, class lad too. But he’s now not a first pick for me, and Lewy is having a mare or a season already. We need much better if we really want 3rd.

Hey, I agree both are or nearly are at the end of their Hibs careers and both will need to be replaced with better sooner than later.

But to say they've been rubbish their entire careers is simply nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

We have guys on here dissing several Hibs managers for picking them, I take these experts are better qualified than all these managers. It is possible of course they have played and managed at a higher level.

I also get that the two haven't been sensational their entire careers otherwise they would have been sold a long time ago but if you ask ex players who played with them you will get they are great pros who are excellent to play with.

[Aldo]

Dismissed what he has done , try reading what is being posted .
Thread going the same way as many before , personal abuse

Where is the personal abuse?? I responded to a post. I said I appreciate others opinions but I also have an opinion and I will express it. You seem to be happy to provide an opinion but don’t like getting questioned on it?

I have already said I think they should have been replaced but as it stands PH is still the best LCH at the club and until they get better he plays if the manager sees fit. Likewise Lewis.

[greenlex]

I don’t disagree Lex, I was a (limited) midfielder and it’s an area of the pitch where games are won and lost for me - and a crucial area we’ve got badly wrong for a few seasons.

I’ve often lauded Lewy as I genuinely think he’s been very underrated over the years, particularly technically - he’s been one of the most technically good players I’ve seen at the club, taking the ball under pressure, being available for the pass, fitness, etc.

But the years are catching up on them both at domestic level too.

I’m not actually arguing that they need to be replaced now. Possibly Hanlon has another season or two but Lewis is starting to get the run around. I’m actually not looking forward to that Boy Varga running at him in Derbys.

[Daily Hibs]

Are people happy with only winning one trophy in the last 10 years or 15 years given how many trips to Hampden we've had?

We have now maxed out celebrating 2016 surely and should be winning another trophy soon.

[truehibernian]

Ha ha.

Yes I am and I do.

Been going to ER since the 70’s.
As I said it’s easy to pick up on mistakes but really really hard to give players credit where credits due. You and others seem to be all over mistakes yet fail to give credit where it’s due.

Trying to get back on point - how you doing mate ?

Your honest thoughts on both Paul and Lewy ?

From a first team point of view, I want them ‘replaced’ with younger and better - I just cannot comprehend why in 2023 season, we are yet again seeing a reliance on them being first pick. For me the ship has sailed and it’s holding us back - I think we really need better players there. I simply don’t buy the pundit view of ‘they’ve seen off others’ as for me that’s very poor recruitment in this day and age.

[h1bs4life]

Say something that has some logic then man. Replace him with who? We do not have a better CB than Paul Hanlon. So go and get us one.

Calm down , Go and get someone to replace him ? Where’s the logic in that .
There is other players in the squad Rocky and Harbottle deserve a chance

[Aldo]

I’m not actually arguing that they need to be replaced now. Possibly Hanlon has another season or two but Lewis is starting to get the run around. I’m actually not looking forward to that Boy Varga running at him in Derbys.

I actually thought that was the reason we bought Obita! To play LB

[Since452]

There are some real real haters of Paul Hanlon and Lewis Stevenson on this board right now and they are all in plain sight. Their best days maybe behind them but they both have and still do give 100% for the club.

Many on here are slating them for their mistakes whilst others seem to be devoid of criticism.

Both these players have given the fans sone of the best moments as Hibs fans yet sone seem to just ignore this and say sentiment is shadowing our judgement of them.

Total disrespect for 2 absolute legends of Hibernian football club and for me their names are up their along with the Reilly’s and Turnbull (both PH and LS achieved something they never did).

Yes everyone is allowed their opinion but to totally ignore and disrespect what these 2 players have done for the club should hang their heads in shame. Call yourself Hibs fans.

Before you say sentiment is getting in the way, maybe it is and yes they should have been replaced over the years but some are just beyond belief!

Rant Over

Nobody hates them. Saying that is just silly. There are many who just don't think either are good enough. Hanlon against Nouble tomorrow is giving me nightmares already. A limited journeyman should be easy meat for a Hibs CB. Hanlon is our captain so should get criticism when performances are poor. He's supposed to be our leader on the park. Stevenson hasn't been at the races this season and needs to improve.

[scoopyboy]

Are people happy with only winning one trophy in the last 10 years or 15 years given how many trips to Hampden we've had?

We have now maxed out celebrating 2016 surely and should be winning another trophy soon.

How long have you actually supported Hibs for?

Time for Hibs to be winning another trophy, check our honours list and get back to me on that one.

[Daily Hibs]

Nobody hates them. Saying that is just silly. There are many who just don't think either are good enough. Hanlon against Nouble tomorrow is giving me nightmares already. A limited journeyman should be easy meat for a Hibs CB. Hanlon is our captain so should get criticism when performances are poor. He's supposed to be our leader on the park. Stevenson hasn't been at the races this season and needs to improve.

Slight diversion but you make a good point. Vente looks like a very astute signing but I'd also have taken Nouble in a heartbeat. He will cause us big problems tomorrow.

[Aldo]

Trying to get back on point - how you doing mate ?

Your honest thoughts on both Paul and Lewy ?

From a first team point of view, I want them ‘replaced’ with younger and better - I just cannot comprehend why in 2023 season, we are yet again seeing a reliance on them being first pick. For me the ship has sailed and it’s holding us back - I think we really need better players there. I simply don’t buy the pundit view of ‘they’ve seen off others’ as for me that’s very poor recruitment in this day and age.

Good mate.

TH I have said in my last few posts that both need replaced. It’s simple as that. Both will continue to give 100% but replacements should have been integrated at least 18 months or so ago!

I responded to Greenlex that I thought we bought Obita to play LB. Happy for Lewis to be back up but LJ playing him without cover it just exposes him at times.

[Aldo]

Nobody hates them. Saying that is just silly. There are many who just don't think either are good enough. Hanlon against Nouble tomorrow is giving me nightmares already. A limited journeyman should be easy meat for a Hibs CB. Hanlon is our captain so should get criticism when performances are poor. He's supposed to be our leader on the park. Stevenson hasn't been at the races this season and needs to improve.

I have said in my posts that both should have been replaced or replacements integrated but that’s not their fault.

[Daily Hibs]

How long have you actually supported Hibs for?

Time for Hibs to be winning another trophy, check our honours list and get back to me on that one.

Huh?

We have been to Hampden literally every year in the last 10 years and in both competitions on many occasions.

It's actually shocking we have only won one cup in that time.

[B.H.F.C]

On a limited budget there has always been more pressing needs in other positions. That’s the long and the short if it. The least of our worries is a correctly well worn phrase. Replacing them is a sticking plaster solution. Even now if the midfield was more flexible and robust then I doubt they would even be getting a mention. That’s where the limited players are.

Stevenson, more so than Hanlon, has been really poor so far this season. Some of the errors he’s made leading to goals have just been really poor defending from him, nothing to do with the midfield IMO.

He shouldn’t have been starting this season as first choice left back. He’s certainly not the least of our worries now IMO.

[ian cruise]

There are some real real haters of Paul Hanlon and Lewis Stevenson on this board right now and they are all in plain sight.

Thing is, it's not just right now. There's been folk who have done this both players whole career. Disappear for the umpteen good games Hanlon or Stevenson have but as soon as they make one mistake, that's it, worst defenders to ever pull on a Hibs top. They're almost giddy with excitement knowing they'll get to come on here and have a good old rant.

[h1bs4life]

No dice, you said they've been poor players for the club in their Hibs careers.

Just answer the question eh


Care to point out where I said they have been poor players in there Hibs careers .
I have no idea what the point of your question is ?

[scoopyboy]

Huh?

We have been to Hampden literally every year in the last 10 years and in both competitions on many occasions.

It's actually shocking we have only won one cup in that time.

Literally eh, how did we got on there last season?

We have had a rich run these last few seasons and I'm personally disappointed we didn't land another cup.

The reason I asked you how long you have supported Hibs for is because in the fifty odd years Hampden appearances have been pretty sporadic in the main.

A question you just ignored by the way.

[the_ginger_hibee]

How long have you actually supported Hibs for?

Time for Hibs to be winning another trophy, check our honours list and get back to me on that one.

That logic doesn't really make sense. Because we underachieved historically we should just keep doing that? We spend the 5th highest amount of money in the country now. There's teams below us in terms of spend & calibre with more trophies in recent times. Inverness have won the same amount of Scottish Cups as us in modern times. Should they have 'checked their honours list' and not even bother entering the Scottish cup that year? Should we be happy with that just because our honours list broadly matches theirs in the last 15 years? Of course not.

[Aldo]

Thing is, it's not just right now. There's been folk who have done this both players whole career. Disappear for the umpteen good games Hanlon or Stevenson have but as soon as they make one mistake, that's it, worst defenders to ever pull on a Hibs top. They're almost giddy with excitement knowing they'll get to come on here and have a good old rant.

Once they go it’ll be someone else.

Easy targets for criticism but like I say others over the years have been devoid of criticism.

[wookie70]

Huh?

We have been to Hampden literally every year in the last 10 years and in both competitions on many occasions.

It's actually shocking we have only won one cup in that time. What players got us to Hampden. We should have taken at least a couple more of our opportunities but getting to Hampden for a final is the second best you can do in that competition. It might not be the ultimate success but it is as close as you can get. We have probably got to Hampden more during Stevenson and Hanlon's time at Hibs than at any other time in the clubs history. I started going regularly in about 1978 so have been at 3 Hampden wins and Lewis has played in two. I don't think anyone is saying they are having great seasons or shouldn't be replaced. They have plenty credit in teh bank though and deserve a wee bit respect. All they can do is their best, which they do, and it is up to others to fight for that place or for teh management team to find better. That hasn't happened yet and is of no fault of Paul or Lewis

[Daily Hibs]

Literally eh, how did we got on there last season?

We have had a rich run these last few seasons and I'm personally disappointed we didn't land another cup.

The reason I asked you how long you have supported Hibs for is because in the fifty odd years Hampden appearances have been pretty sporadic in the main.

A question you just ignored by the way.
Ah, apologies.
Been going since mid nineties. Appearances were few and far between for years but over the last 10 years we are there literally every year. Maybe not last season as you mentioned but one could highlight our poor derby record, particularly in the cups and our club captain preferring to them as just another game. They arent just another game Paul.

[h1bs4life]

Thing is, it's not just right now. There's been folk who have done this both players whole career. Disappear for the umpteen good games Hanlon or Stevenson have but as soon as they make one mistake, that's it, worst defenders to ever pull on a Hibs top. They're almost giddy with excitement knowing they'll get to come on here and have a good old rant.


Who are these folk that have hated both players all there career .
Giddy with excitement, WTF is that all about .
If both are playing tomorrow hopefully both will have good games and we get the 3 points . I will be there as usual .

[scoopyboy]

Care to point out where I said they have been poor players in there Hibs careers .
I have no idea what the point of your question is ?

Read you post again at #79.

You started at the beginning of their Hibs careers until present day and virtually ripped them at every turn.

The reason behind my question is I was looking for an answer from you, and you are still dodging answering it.

Spit it out man:greengrin

[the_ginger_hibee]

What players got us to Hampden. We should have taken at least a couple more of our opportunities but getting to Hampden for a final is the second best you can do in that competition. It might not be the ultimate success but it is as close as you can get. We have probably got to Hampden more during Stevenson and Hanlon's time at Hibs than at any other time in the clubs history. I started going regularly in about 1978 so have been at 3 Hampden wins and Lewis has played in two. I don't think anyone is saying they are having great seasons or shouldn't be replaced. They have plenty credit in teh bank though and deserve a wee bit respect. All they can do is their best, which they do, and it is up to others to fight for that place or for teh management team to find better. That hasn't happened yet and is of no fault of Paul or Lewis

I think that is part of the problem and a question the OP is kind of asking. Are we letting sentiment or credit in the bank cloud our judgement? Do people genuinely believe they both should be in the first team? People hide behind a lot of reasons to avoid the difficult reality about their current abilities in my opinion, 'they've seen off X number of competition' 'X number of managers have rated them' 'they have won 2 trophies' 'we've got bigger problems' 'they give it all' 'they are Hibs men' - when the only thing that matters is, are they good enough for Hibs right now?

And it's a no from me.

[scoopyboy]

Ah, apologies.
Been going since mid nineties. Appearances were few and far between for years but over the last 10 years we are there literally every year. Maybe not last season as you mentioned but one could highlight our poor derby record, particularly in the cups and our club captain preferring to them as just another game. They arent just another game Paul.

From the mid nineties to probably 2012 we weren't blessed with a lot of appearances and for the last 12 years we have been blessed with a lot of appearances which I guess could be argued should be the norm.

Paul knows full well derbies aren't another game. He was brought up in the west of Edinburgh and went to Balgreen Primary school and then Tynecastle High.
I know he has tried to play them down in interviews, my only take on it is to try and keep players and fans on an even keel.

[h1bs4life]

Read you post again at #79.

You started at the beginning of their Hibs careers until present day and virtually ripped them at every turn.

The reason behind my question is I was looking for an answer from you, and you are still dodging answering it.

Spit it out man:greengrin

Point out anything in the post that is incorrect, also have said both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner .
Dodging the question ? I would take it the answer is Hanlon and Stevenson .
Time for you to point out all the positives I might have missed some of them.

[truehibernian]

From the mid nineties to probably 2012 we weren't blessed with a lot of appearances and for the last 12 years we have been blessed with a lot of appearances which I guess could be argued should be the norm.

Paul knows full well derbies aren't another game. He was brought up in the west of Edinburgh and went to Balgreen Primary school and then Tynecastle High.
I know he has tried to play them down in interviews, my only take on it is to try and keep players and fans on an even keel.

I totally agree with that 👍but it points me towards my previous post on another thread Scoopy that we don’t have players (like Marvin and KT) who outwardly and ‘in your face’ say ‘come on then’.

The Aberdeen players I referred to in my post were Doug Rougvie and Mark McGhee - they loved ‘sledging’ players in the opposing team and often big games were won before a ball was kicked.

I honestly don’t think we have players that get into the heads of the opposition before a ball is kicked and impose arrogance and fear. And that’s a fault of the whole team, nothing to do with the Lewy and Paul ‘are they worth keeping’ argument.

We’ve no steel or real leaders on the pitch just now.

[ian cruise]

Who are these folk that have hated both players all there career .
Giddy with excitement, WTF is that all about .
If both are playing tomorrow hopefully both will have good games and we get the 3 points . I will be there as usual .

You seem to have taken that quite personally when I never said it was a comment about you nor quoted one of your posts. Since both broke though the board has been littered with posters trying to convince is they're not good enough for Hibs, weak links, playing them is accepting mediocrity. I'm not going to name and shame other posters but there's tonnes of evidence on it on posts season after season.

[McD]

Thats precisely the name of the thread. Take the sentiment out of it... How many competitive caps do they have for Scotland? Maybe if they were that good they'd have played in competitive games for Scotland?

They might have played all these games for the club but it doesnt mean they've been good enough, no where near it on many occasions.

The way I see it is our fanbase is split. Half are happy just getting to Hampden and see that as success along with having these two as one club men racking appearances and regarding them as legends.

Thd other half want the club to be more ambitious and look at only winning one trophy in 15 years as underachieving whilst also regarding Leey and Hanlon ad not good enough.

St Jonnstone won both cups in the same season. St Johnstone. With our turnover now and one of the biggest clubs in Scotland we should be winning more.


Hanlon was capped in a competitive match, but don’t let that get in the way of talking pish

Your last sentence is the only sensible thing you’ve said

[scoopyboy]

That logic doesn't really make sense. Because we underachieved historically we should just keep doing that? We spend the 5th highest amount of money in the country now. There's teams below us in terms of spend & calibre with more trophies in recent times. Inverness have won the same amount of Scottish Cups as us in modern times. Should they have 'checked their honours list' and not even bother entering the Scottish cup that year? Should we be happy with that just because our honours list broadly matches theirs in the last 15 years? Of course not.

The logic is the poster said it was time we won another cup.

How the hell do you work that out, one way is to check statistically the history of the club.

Nobody is saying we don't want to win things but to say we are due one now is just sheer fantasy. They don't come along regularly like the 26 bus.:greengrin

[DH1875]

Look Lewis shouldn't be our starting LB but he is. Its up to the recruitment team to replace him and that's not happened. Even then I'd still 100% have him in the squad and on the bench. Can fill in in so many positions, is a great pro and a great example to the younger players.
As for Paul, truth be told I'm not his biggest fan. Thing about that is, even I'd argue he's had a better start to the season than Will Fish who has been really poor.

[McD]

Criticism of the managers that have picked them , they have all lost there jobs and all taken loads of criticism
Also worth noting that Hanlon has 23 under 21 caps ( 4 th best ) to a solitary Scotland cap which would maybe indicate that Scotland managers thought he was good playing with players his own age but has not developed enough to play full internationals.



Alec Edwards never got capped, must’ve been crap then, using your logic


Or maybe they’ve been competing with a number of players who are just better - Andy Robertson and Kieran tierney would keep a lot of players out, it’s not a criticism of the other players, it’s how good they have been.

Doig hasn’t been capped in a full international yet, are you writing him off too?

[scoopyboy]

Point out anything in the post that is incorrect, also have said both will be rightly be remembered as cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely as a double cup winner .
Dodging the question ? I would take it the answer is Hanlon and Stevenson .
Time for you to point out all the positives I might have missed some of them.

There is nothing in your post that is incorrect but you have focussed on the negatives and ignored the positives to suit your agenda.

The answer is nobody in our history has even come close to the number of Scottish Cup finals the two of them have appeared in.

For a club that has always had the Scottish Cup at the forefront of their ambitions that is no mean feat.

[Daily Hibs]

There is nothing in your post that is incorrect but you have focussed on the negatives and ignored the positives to suit your agenda.

The answer is nobody in our history has even come close to the number of Scottish Cup finals the two of them have appeared in.

For a club that has always had the Scottish Cup at the forefront of their ambitions that is no mean feat.

That can go both ways though. On one hand we won a cup for the first time in 114 years but on the other how many chances have we had to win it multiple times in the last 10 years?

There is no question surely that we have actually underacheived given the number of SC Finals we have had recently.

[wookie70]

I think that is part of the problem and a question the OP is kind of asking. Are we letting sentiment or credit in the bank cloud our judgement? Do people genuinely believe they both should be in the first team? People hide behind a lot of reasons to avoid the difficult reality about their current abilities in my opinion, 'they've seen off X number of competition' 'X number of managers have rated them' 'they have won 2 trophies' 'we've got bigger problems' 'they give it all' 'they are Hibs men' - when the only thing that matters is, are they good enough for Hibs right now?

And it's a no from me.

The credit in the bank I am talking about is in terms of some of the comments made against them. It has no bearing on whether they should get a start. They get a start because they are the best players at the club in those positions. We need to replace Lewis for sure as he cannot play every week but until we do he has to start

[McD]

Are people happy with only winning one trophy in the last 10 years or 15 years given how many trips to Hampden we've had?

We have now maxed out celebrating 2016 surely and should be winning another trophy soon.

This is the laziest strawman argument. Every single football fan wants their club to have won more, even Man City or Celtic fans will say there was trophies they should have won.

And, are you seriously saying only hanlon and/or Stevenson are responsible for us not winning more trophies? Not another player has put a foot wrong, not a manager whose tactics have been awful, it’s all on these 2? Honestly some of the posts on this thread are




Huh?

We have been to Hampden literally every year in the last 10 years and in both competitions on many occasions.

It's actually shocking we have only won one cup in that time.

Aye, how dare those other teams turn up and try their best to beat us, damned rude of them. As it happens, 2 of those hampden defeats were down to a manager who point blank refused to learn from previous matches against the same team, should we chalk those losses up to hanlon and Stevenson as well?

[wookie70]

That can go both ways though. On one hand we won a cup for the first time in 114 years but on the other how many chances have we had to win it multiple times in the last 10 years?

There is no question surely that we have actually underacheived given the number of SC Finals we have had recently. You have a chance of winning the Scottish Cup every year. You have a better chance if your players are good enough to get to the final. It is almost as if you are saying getting to the final is a sign of failure. No doubt we have not won as many as we should but they are one of games and a couple of them we were the better team. Getting to final after final though shows a good degree of consistency and that winning mentality many seem to think is important

[scoopyboy]

That can go both ways though. On one hand we won a cup for the first time in 114 years but on the other how many chances have we had to win it multiple times in the last 10 years?

There is no question surely that we have actually underacheived given the number of SC Finals we have had recently.

I would argue we have under achieved in both semi final and final appearances in the League Cup as well.

Thing that probably annoys me the most is that it's been clubs outwith the Old Firm that have hurt us at Hampden. Hearts, Falkirk, Aberdeen, Ross County and St.Johnstone.

Unfortunately doesn't mean another cup is incoming.

[Brightside]

Are people happy with only winning one trophy in the last 10 years or 15 years given how many trips to Hampden we've had?

We have now maxed out celebrating 2016 surely and should be winning another trophy soon.

But that’s got nothing to do with Paul and Lewis. Your anger is with the club. Personally the stats are what I expect of hibs. We are a top 6 team. Average.

[Potty78]

I find it strange that we haven't found better the last few years. Both brilliant service to the club but we need better. However that's down to our recruitment.

[lyonhibs]

Yep, they have held the club back and there is a reason they have stayed at thd club for so long. No one else has wanted them and they now they are comfortable at the club.

It is nuts that all the failures in games that really matter are all forgotten about.

With all the trips to hampden its a travesty we only have 2016 SC to show for it and that's in the last 10 years alone!

They get mentioned as a pair because they have both been in the team for all of it. Nobody can tell me they've been good enough for the club all these years. I think fans are starting to realise that now.

Lewis Stevenson is the only player ever to win the League Cup and Scottish Cup for Hibs.

I'd also wager he's got the most Hampden appearances ever as well. That we haven't converted more of them into trophies isn't for want of trying or even until lately maybe, quality on LS part.

Meagre as it may be, in terms of cold hard silverware, the last 15 years have been the most productive in Hibs history, at least since the Tornados if we're counting the Dry borough Cup.

[tamig]

Literally eh, how did we got on there last season?

We have had a rich run these last few seasons and I'm personally disappointed we didn't land another cup.

The reason I asked you how long you have supported Hibs for is because in the fifty odd years Hampden appearances have been pretty sporadic in the main.

A question you just ignored by the way.
Sorry to be pedantic but he said every year - not every season. We were at Hampden last year 👍

[jeffers]

I never get the criticism of PH and LS, or when I say criticism I mean OTT criticism. Two players who give their all for the club and have been good players for us over long careers. If they have poor games, make mistakes absolutely they deserve flak, but in Paul Hanlon’s case he’s getting it every week and Fish has been much worse than him since he’s returned. And he’s still the best centre back we have imo.

It may well be this season is a season too far for Louis’, but he’s not picking himself….

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well done just proved my point .Sentiment .

That's nonsense and the concept of the whole thread is nonsense. To say this ( or any other professional club ) would pick two players season after season, year after year, because of sentiment, or even misplaced loyalty, is just utter nonsense. Clubs live and die by performances on the park, managers live and die on the same alter. No sane manager would ever pick two players he thinks aren't good enough if he has an option not to.

If Hanlon and Stevenson have been, and remain. a problem it's because the people running this club and manager after manager have failed to source either a centre back or left back good enough to challenge them. This isn't a failure of two players ( if failure it is ) it's a failure of recruitment, its a failure of player development, neither of which have anything to do with Paul Hanlon or Lewis Stevenson.

Could / should one or the other, or both, have been supplanted in this team well before now? ... possibly ... even probably. The fact they haven't has nothing to do with either player, and even less to do with sentiment.

[Daily Hibs]

That's nonsense and the concept of the whole thread is nonsense. To say this ( or any other professional club ) would pick two players season after season, year after year, because of sentiment, or even misplaced loyalty, is just utter nonsense. Clubs live and die by performances on the park, managers live and die on the same alter. No sane manager would ever pick two players he thinks aren't good enough if he has an option not to.

If Hanlon and Stevenson have been, and remain. a problem it's because the people running this club and manager after manager have failed to source either a centre back or left back good enough to challenge them. This isn't a failure of two players ( if failure it is ) it's a failure of recruitment, its a failure of player development, neither of which have anything to do with Paul Hanlon or Lewis Stevenson.

Could / should one or the other, or both, have been supplanted in this team well before now? ... possibly ... even probably. The fact they haven't has nothing to do with either player, and even less to do with sentiment.

So the fundamental point is that the club have failed then?

[Brightside]

So the fundamental point is that the club have failed then?

Failed if you expect more from Hibs. But to get more they need more income. More income means higher prices or bigger attendance, or more hospitality.

The current owners have invested plenty. The recruitment dept again hasn’t seen a reason to bring in a new LCB. I think they need to do that to at least allow Paul to rest when required. They have brought in multiple LBs, but it appears Lewis is still seen as the best option.

None of that has anything to do with sentiment. These 2 play as they are still seen as the best players in those positions.

So as others have said the whole thread is just utter nonsense and just another excuse to have a dig at 2 Uber professional footballers. If we have a few more like them we’d maybe win a bit more.

[Daily Hibs]

Well done LJ dropping the two untouchables today. Finally.

[Jones28]

Well done LJ dropping the two untouchables today. Finally.

Is there any need?

****ing mad that Johnson’s only compliments are relating to dropping players. It’s pathetic.

[Daily Hibs]

Is there any need?

****ing mad that Johnson’s only compliments are relating to dropping players. It’s pathetic.

Maybe he wants to start winning. Now theres a thought. GGTTH

[the_ginger_hibee]

I hope we'll be ok today without them both. And I hope we consulted all 12 previous managers + 2 Scotland managers that picked them once, to make sure it was ok first.

[lyonhibs]

Well there we go. An easy win at home pending now they're both not starting, 3-0 bare minimum.

Am I doing this right?

[the_ginger_hibee]

Well there we go. An easy win at home pending now they're both not starting, 3-0 bare minimum.

Am I doing this right?

I personally hope Hibs win 3-0 every game. Hanlon & Lewis, or not.

[Jones28]

Maybe he wants to start winning. Now theres a thought. GGTTH

Ah right. Of course we don’t win anything when they start do we?

[Daily Hibs]

Ah right. Of course we don’t win anything when they start do we?
That's been done to death and it's been pointed out that we have a poor return in derbies, hampden and trophies for the size of our club.
If you are happy being mediocre they're your men.

[lyonhibs]

That's been done to death and it's been pointed out that we have a poor return in derbies, hampden and trophies for the size of our club.
If you are happy being mediocre they're your men.

The Famous Five had a sub par Derby record. Is that also LS and PH doing?

Historically speaking,we've had an above average trophy return in the last 15 years, asxmuch as we all wish it had been more.

[lyonhibs]

I personally hope Hibs win 3-0 every game. Hanlon & Lewis, or not.

Indeed, but such wins have been thin on ground and some on here would have one believe that "sentiment" to those 2 is one of the root causes.

Now LJ is showing no such sentiment I expect an easy win to logically follow.

[Daily Hibs]

The Famous Five had a sub par Derby record. Is that also LS and PH doing?

Historically speaking,we've had an above average trophy return in the last 15 years, asx much as we all wish it had been more.

I'd prefer the club to have a glass half full approach rather than a glass half empty approach.

[Daily Hibs]

Indeed, but such wins have been thin on ground and some on here would have one believe that "sentiment" to those 2 is one of the root causes.

Now LJ is showing no such sentiment I expect an easy win to logically follow.

Well they are the root cause though. Well done for highlighting that.

Bang average players
12 managers
1 trophy in 15 years
Countless Hampden failures
Countless Derby failures
Weekly screw ups leading to goals

[Since452]

Well they are the root cause though. Well done for highlighting that.

Bang average players
12 managers
1 trophy in 15 years
Countless Hampden failures
Countless Derby failures
Weekly screw ups leading to goals

Relegation
3rd in the Championship
0-7 Malmö

Synonyms with failure

[Centre Hawf]

Still a long way to go and can turn this round. But the same soft goal from a cross and this time neither on the park.

[Daily Hibs]

Such a great culture they provide by being around the club.

Players coming in must think how are these two average players the benchmark and then watch everyone become average because 7/10 is the standard.

Not good enough.

[hibee_girl]

Such a great culture they provide by being around the club.

Players coming in must think how are these two average players the benchmark and then watch everyone become average because 7/10 is the standard.

Not good enough.

You absolutely cannot blame either Stevenson or Hanlon for today.

[Daily Hibs]

You absolutely cannot blame either Stevenson or Hanlon for today.

Nobody is but the culture at the club is rotten.

That is undeniable.

[WeeRussell]

Such a great culture they provide by being around the club.

Players coming in must think how are these two average players the benchmark and then watch everyone become average because 7/10 is the standard.

Not good enough.

“Being around the club” the reason we’ve been ***** today 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Vault Boy]

Nobody is but the culture at the club is rotten.

If you think the cultural problems stem from exemplary professionals like Stevo, Hanlon, and SDG, I think your criticism is misplaced.

[Daily Hibs]

So we just keep this cycle of rinse repeat with managers? There are clearly far deeper problems at the club.

It's an incredible turnover of managers we have.

[lyonhibs]

So we just keep this cycle of rinse repeat with managers? There are clearly far deeper problems at the club.

It's an incredible turnover of managers we have.

Is it though, in comparison to the rough SPL average? There's been a lot of them right enough, but there has been elsewhere too

[Centre Hawf]

Such a great culture they provide by being around the club.

Players coming in must think how are these two average players the benchmark and then watch everyone become average because 7/10 is the standard.

Not good enough.

Deary me. What happens when we're still ***** after they leave? Is it still their fault for having been here once upon a time? We get it, some people don't like them, but today just proved what many of us who defend them having been saying for the last few games, they're not the problem.

[SHODAN]

Massive difference dropping Hanlon and Stevenson. Such wise advice. :aok:

[Brightside]

Hanlon for manager.

[the_ginger_hibee]

Lewy FC fans celebrating a big win tonight. Enjoy it. Drink it in.

[Just Alf]

Lewy FC fans celebrating a big win tonight. Enjoy it. Drink it in.It feels like you're deliberately missing the whole point of the discussion.

[lyonhibs]

Lewy FC fans celebrating a big win tonight. Enjoy it. Drink it in.

Hahaha what a riddy of a post

[McD]

Lewy FC fans celebrating a big win tonight. Enjoy it. Drink it in.


Hahaha what a riddy of a post



:faf: been called out on the rubbish I’ve been saying, so now I’m chucking my toys out the pram

[Since452]

The first thing the new manager coming in should do is try and replace these two. Today makes no difference.

[Allant1981]

Actually thought obita looked ok at LB rather than stevenson, hopefully gets a run in that position and not as a winger.

[HibeeMackenzie]

Fish gifting a goal today as he has in both other league games this season. He’s not Hanlon or Stevenson though so he’ll get away with it

[Brightside]

So we were much worse without them. Just so that’s clear. Well done all. 👍

[Allant1981]

So we were much worse without them. Just so that’s clear. Well done all. 👍

We really werent

[mcohibs]

Actually thought obita looked ok at LB rather than stevenson, hopefully gets a run in that position and not as a winger.

Totally agree.

[Brightside]

We really werent

We couldn’t be much worse. Players had no idea what was going on. Even without our weak as piss leader.

[Allant1981]

We couldn’t be much worse. Players had no idea what was going on. Even without our weak as piss leader.

Hanlon was quite rightly dropped(would have dropped fish as well personally) but don't think we would have been any better if he had played, those 2 forwards for livi would have dominated him big time

[1875M]

Fish gifting a goal today as he has in both other league games this season. He’s not Hanlon or Stevenson though so he’ll get away with it

Yep. He’s not been anywhere near as good as he was last season.

[Brightside]

Hanlon was quite rightly dropped(would have dropped fish as well personally) but don't think we would have been any better if he had played, those 2 forwards for livi would have dominated him big time

We had no leadership today.

[Brightside]

Who leaves hibs first. The poison dwarf or 2 legends.

[Daily Hibs]

We have no leadership full stop.

[Tyler Durden]

Total speculation on my part but I really hope the Fish loan deal doesn’t include financial penalties for not playing him.

He should be taken out for a few games but you could level that at any of the defenders tbf

[Northernhibee]

Stevenson, Hanlon, Campbell, Fish, Miller, Obita, or indeed any invidual player are not the problem. The way that they're being set up, coached, and asked to play is the problem.

I'd have hoped that today made it abundantly clear.

[Allant1981]

We had no leadership today.

It's been the same all season unfortunately, not just today

[Brightside]

Stevenson, Hanlon, Campbell, Fish, Miller, Obita, or indeed any invidual player are not the problem. The way that they're being set up, coached, and asked to play is the problem.

I'd have hoped that today made it abundantly clear.

Spot on!!

[Tyler Durden]

Stevenson, Hanlon, Campbell, Fish, Miller, Obita, or indeed any invidual player are not the problem. The way that they're being set up, coached, and asked to play is the problem.

I'd have hoped that today made it abundantly clear.

I agree overall but I cannot see a place for Lewis or Campbell under a competent coach.

No shame for Stevenson at all, had a great career but his time is up.

[Lancs Harp]

Spot on!!

I think its a combination of both. LJ is tactically inept and full of sxxt but i think we lack enough quality. I think too many players are moderate at best.

Livi made it difficult for us today its what we should have been trying to do against Villa the other day. What goes thru LJs heid ive got no idea.

[Northernhibee]

I agree overall but I cannot see a place for Lewis or Campbell under a competent coach.

No shame for Stevenson at all, had a great career but his time is up.

I absolutely can. He's been our best left back for over a decade, and in a competent system he's still got a place in the team.

Josh Campbell used correctly is a good midfielder. I'm pretty certain he's still carrying a knock looking at him.

Either way, almost every single player looks shot of confidence.

[Irish_Steve]

It's rather sad that Livi showed us how to defend as well

[Smartie]

Stevenson, Hanlon, Campbell, Fish, Miller, Obita, or indeed any invidual player are not the problem. The way that they're being set up, coached, and asked to play is the problem.

I'd have hoped that today made it abundantly clear.

Agree 100%.

I rate every single member of our first team squad and could easily and happily see them being able to contribute to a successful Hibs side.

We need additions and we need some sort of game plan that gets the best out of our players.

The players I’ve thought weren’t good enough have left on loan, then I guess there’s Tavares.

[snedzuk]

It's rather sad that Livi showed us how to defend as well

...using one of our cast offs

[GreenCastle]

Miller - 13 games at Hibs level
Rocky - 30 games
Harbottle - 32 for Mansfield
Fish -25 games

No co-incidence with such inexperienced players regular mistakes happen.

Marshall rarely comes to catch crosses and looks past it. Today we played a 20 year old in goals.

Add in Hanlon and Stevenson making similar mistakes to they made several years ago plus more = dodgy back line.

[Aldo]

So so glad Paul and Lewis were not playing today.

Just shows that it’s not always them!

[the_ginger_hibee]

:faf: been called out on the rubbish I’ve been saying, so now I’m chucking my toys out the pram

Nah not at all. Was just surprised people were delighted at the result today & would rather support 2 players who won't be here soon, than our club.

Today was terrible but it doesn't tell us anything about Lewis & Paul's position in our starting 11. Players out of position, players making individual mistakes...just because the replacements are poor doesn't mean those that they replaced are not. I genuinely can't believe anyone thinks either Lewis or Paul belong in our first 11 in 2023. A failure of our recruitment team to replace them does not change my opinion on this. In the last league game Lewis got embarrassed & out muscled by a Motherwell no-mark and did not cover himself in glory at the Raith goal either. This is someone with over 500 games. It is not good enough.

Gloat all you like but Hibernian need & deserve better.

[Centre Hawf]

Nah not at all. Was just surprised people were delighted at the result today & would rather support 2 players than our club.

Today was terrible but it doesn't tell us anything about Lewis & Paul's position in our starting 11. Players out of position, players making individual mistakes...just because the replacements are poor doesn't mean those that they replaced are not. I genuinely can't believe anyone thinks either Lewis or Paul belong in our first 11 in 2023. A failure of our recruitment team to replace them does not change my opinion on this. In the last league game Lewis got embarrassed & out muscled by Motherwell and did not cover himself in glory at the Raith goal either. This is someone with over 500 games. It is not good enough.

Gloat all you like but Hibernian need & deserve better.

I think we can all agree that replacements are needed. I’m sure Lewy will tell you himself it’s needed. But some of the comments about the two of them are bordering on blatant disrespect for two club legends. Some people want them dropped, but as we’ve seen the people at the club to replace them aren’t any better. So until we sign two to genuinely replace them properly I think some people need to just wind their necks in with some of the comments.

[southern hibby]

I’ll start by saying I have no axe to grind with Hanlon or Stevenson. They have both been outstanding servants to Hibs. Many managers have picked them before other players.

Unfortunately their playing days at this level are coming to an end Stevenson more so than Hanlon, Hanlon I believe has a bit longer to go but it’s coming.

I’ve mentioned managers have picked them constantly before other players but how much have we spent on these positions?
I mean the money we have spent on players has been in midfield wingers and now a striker. If we had spent £300,000 on a left back or a Centre half we would ( I would imagine) have a far better younger player than Stevenson/Hanlon.

Problem I see is because Hanlon/Stevenson has been consistent we bring in young developing players and stick with these 2 which allows the manager to spend money elsewhere.

If we had spent money on cover for these positions and had used Hanlon/Stevenson more sparingly then maybe just maybe folk wouldn’t be jumping down their necks with the anger that has been shown.

Now for my bit of controversy that may get me shot down but before anyone has a go I only want the best for Hibs.

Will Hanlon/Stevenson walk into a coaching job at East Mains when they hang up their boots? I’m not saying they won’t be good enough or shouldn’t get a job there but I believe it should only happen if they are good coaches.

Since East Mains opened we have developed very few of our own players who has made us money. Oli Shaw, Porteous and I believe Laidlaw ( just went to London for a fee ). It’s been open 14 years at roughly 500,000 -£600,000 a year) and we’ve sold a few other that have came from other clubs. Cummings and Doig for instance.

I understand and appreciate that we have signed players because of East Mains too as it’s an amazing set up but is the coaching there of a good enough standard for what we need.

We talk about our young development team being great but again young lads coming through are needing bedded in and help to develope against profesional players and at times don’t look ready for the step up.

Maybe just maybe instead of looking at spending money on young foreign players a small percentage of this could be spent on a very very decent coach at youth level.

GGTTH

[SickBoy32]

Nah not at all. Was just surprised people were delighted at the result today & would rather support 2 players who won't be here soon, than our club.

Today was terrible but it doesn't tell us anything about Lewis & Paul's position in our starting 11. Players out of position, players making individual mistakes...just because the replacements are poor doesn't mean those that they replaced are not. I genuinely can't believe anyone thinks either Lewis or Paul belong in our first 11 in 2023. A failure of our recruitment team to replace them does not change my opinion on this. In the last league game Lewis got embarrassed & out muscled by a Motherwell no-mark and did not cover himself in glory at the Raith goal either. This is someone with over 500 games. It is not good enough.

Gloat all you like but Hibernian need & deserve better.

Who is the best centre half at the club ?

Who is the best (fit) full back at the club ?

It is on this basis that both should continue to start, and baffles me that LJ thought that back 4 yesterday would be an improvement

We’d all like improvements of course, but as it stands both are absolutely first picks for their positions IMO

Curious why Fish seems to escape your critique ? Levels below hanlon so far this season

[Smartie]

I really wish the problem was as simple as axing these 2 players and bringing in 2 replacements.

[Brightside]

He dropped Hanlon due to a hip issue. A hip issue that he had when he changed his mind and played him against Raith. (He wasn’t in that time the night before) He did the same last year.

[LewysGot2]

He dropped Hanlon due to a hip issue. A hip issue that he had when he changed his mind and played him against Raith. (He wasn’t in that time the night before) He did the same last year.

So theyve rested him. And very likely others on that bench...rather than dropped.



I'm trying to get my head round the deployment of Harbottle to RB in favour of Miller, Megwa etc

I can only assume the coaches thought Noubile would play wide left and try to ragdoll whoever was out there. If they did predict that set up they were correct as he did play out wide - not a game for Megwa as total physical and experience mismatch and not fair and perhaps they felt Miller was not fresh or fit enough to go again after his torrid 90 mins on Thursday.

It looked like a Fish at Tynecastle solution to a predicted strategy from Livi. Ultimately, though he tried hard, he looked like a centre half playing RB. Over the years the only one of our regular CBs who have been able to do that switch comfortably has been Paul Hanlon when he's been deployed to LB or LWB.

[h1bs4life]

So we were much worse without them. Just so that’s clear. Well done all. 👍

Pathetic post but to be expected from you .
About as good as saying the last game they played we lost 5 , yesterday was only 3 so that’s an improvement or same result as the 1st league game.
The manager does not have a clue , vital game so put your 700k signing on the bench and put a striker who barely scored over the last 2 seasons up front.
Put a centre half at right back and keep your right back on the bench same as he did with Fish at Tynecastle .
Bringing Campbell on who has been struggling this season and confidence must be low after he has subbed him in 30 mins 45 mins started him against Villa makes no sense .

[Allant1981]

Pathetic post but to be expected from you .
About as good as saying the last game they played we lost 5 , yesterday was only 3 so that’s an improvement or same result as the 1st league game.
The manager does not have a clue , vital game so put your 700k signing on the bench and put a striker who barely scored over the last 2 seasons up front.
Put a centre half at right back and keep your right back on the bench same as he did with Fish at Tynecastle .
Bringing Campbell on who has been struggling this season and confidence must be low after he has subbed him in 30 mins 45 mins started him against Villa makes no sense .

To be fair, Campbell scored so can't really use that as a point, agree with the rest though

[Brightside]

Pathetic post but to be expected from you .
About as good as saying the last game they played we lost 5 , yesterday was only 3 so that’s an improvement or same result as the 1st league game.
The manager does not have a clue , vital game so put your 700k signing on the bench and put a striker who barely scored over the last 2 seasons up front.
Put a centre half at right back and keep your right back on the bench same as he did with Fish at Tynecastle .
Bringing Campbell on who has been struggling this season and confidence must be low after he has subbed him in 30 mins 45 mins started him against Villa makes no sense .

Exactly. It’s the manager. But you started a thread saying we win nothing due to Hanlon & Stevenson. It made no difference dropping them as the team and shape / style is all over the place. We don’t defend as a team and that’s all down to him.

[h1bs4life]

Exactly. It’s the manager. But you started a thread saying we win nothing due to Hanlon & Stevenson. It made no difference dropping them as the team and shape / style is all over the place. We don’t defend as a team and that’s all down to him.

Show me where I have said we win nothing with Hanlon and Stevenson ? 1st thing I said was they are cup winning legends Stevenson uniquely has 2 . My point is about any players good enough to be playing now.
Whether you believe me or not I have no dislike for either player and support them like I do any player that is lucky enough to put on a Hibs jersey.
Turned 60 last year seen lots of better players and certainly lots of worse players than both personally I want Hibs to have the best team on the park no matter who they are .
Agree with you about the manager he hasn’t a clue what he is doing and would throw any of the players under the bus to take pressure of himself.
He talks absolute nonsense to the press suspect he talks the same to the players and most off them have now switched off.

[Jones28]

He dropped Hanlon due to a hip issue. A hip issue that he had when he changed his mind and played him against Raith. (He wasn’t in that time the night before) He did the same last year.

A hip issue? As in he’s not “hip” enough?

I knew he was at fault for the culture in the club.

[Daily Hibs]

...using one of our cast offs

It really is quite amazing and how many others perform well after they've left us which makes me think that there is something culturally wrong at the club. Is it poor coaching, is it a poor atmosphere at the club is there a clique type situation with our players while been here for years that experienced players dont sttle in?

We have appointed everyone possible into a coaching role or forced legend status on the backline from 2016.

I saw a post yesterday that Hanlon and Stevenson will eventually be offered coaching roles at the club and will they be good enough coaches.


I think this is the problem, we have poor coaches and poor leadership.

[Smartie]

It really is quite amazing and how many others perform well after they've left us which makes me think that there is something culturally wrong at the club.

We have appointed everyone possible into a coaching role or forced legend status on the backline from 2016.

I saw a post yesterday that Hanlon and Stevenson will eventually be offered coaching roles at the club and will they be good enough coaches.


I think this is the problem, we have poor coaches and poor leadership.

How do you assess the performance of the coaches?

Is it David Gray's fault that we don't have a recognisable right back and a pile of midfielders that it's impossible to make a decent unit out of?

Personally I think the pointing of fingers at the likes of Gray ridiculous. If someone comes in, thinks they're short of the required quality, he has to go.

I don't think anyone who doesn't have day in day out intimate knowledge of the inner dealings of the football side of our club can honestly pass opinion on that.

[Daily Hibs]

How do you assess the performance of the coaches?

Is it David Gray's fault that we don't have a recognisable right back and a pile of midfielders that it's impossible to make a decent unit out of?

Personally I think the pointing of fingers at the likes of Gray ridiculous. If someone comes in, thinks they're short of the required quality, he has to go.

I don't think anyone who doesn't have day in day out intimate knowledge of the inner dealings of the football side of our club can honestly pass opinion on that.

Absolutely that's why I'm just asking the question.

Something is definitely not right t the club from top to bottom.

[Smartie]

Absolutely that's why I'm just asking the question.

Something is definitely not right t the club from top to bottom.

Something's not right but that's a different story to "everything is wrong".

We've got rid of the man in charge of the football side so there's obviously an acknowledgment that it's not all been right.

Whilst it's not all right, there still may be aspects that are working well. I have high hopes for McDermott, I think Vente could prove to be a smashing player.

TBH my concerns right now would be that we need a bit more from the more important people a few steps up from the manager, and they're going to be the ones tasked with getting this appointment right.