Hibs in Europe - the future ?

[GreenCastle]

Last night showed the gulf - what concerned me the most is how are Scottish teams meant to compete in Europe if the money elsewhere is so vast.

Even last year Hearts were taken apart in the group stages of the conference league.

Feels like we are in a weird place that we want to get into Europe but actually never ready for Europe.

As money goes to other teams and leagues in Scotland the gulf grows.

It’s an issue and just can’t see it improving anytime soon unless Scottish football brings in more £ which filters down.

Old Firm qualifying just widens the gap even further - hence why I still find it hard to actually give them any support in Europe. The co-Efficient obviously is important but it’s also a massive concern.

[SlickShoes]

It’s an issue in every league, look at how the champions league is dominated by certain teams and leagues.

The biggest leagues are now financially so far apart from the rest most have no chance of competing in any consistent way unless radical change is enacted through the game as a whole. That’s not going to happen because they’d never agree to level the playing field so it just is what it is.

Unless multiple billionaires start to get behind a smaller league the teams playing in them have no real chance of competing.

[Pretty Boy]

The groups stages would be huge if a team could do it for 2 or 3 years on the bounce. That would be in the region of £15-20M extra in the coffers and that allows you to secure among the best players in the market clubs like us operate in, sadly Hearts have half a chance of doing it, their tie is tough one but it's no Aston Villa. Reaching the group stages isn't about thinking you can win the whole thing but about laying foundations to build on it year on year, improve incrementally and maybe be in a position to reach a knockout round.

Hearts have had their shot and may get another, Aberdeen are getting their turn. This season has to be all about us making sure neither gets it again and the only team over 38 games who should be able to stop them is us.

[hibee1875]

The point in the conference league was to give the smaller European nations a chance of having some of their teams have European glory. It’s why the stadiums picked for the final have never been over 30k.

Sustained success (regular appearances in the groups, odd last 16 progression) in this competition would then in time give these clubs enough money to then compete in the EL.


It’s clear though that any team qualifying for this competition from any of the top 5 leagues is light years ahead of the teams which qualify due to finishing 5th in the lesser leagues.

Were we just extremely unlucky in drawing Villa? Maybe. But maybe after this year when the competition for the third year running will ultimately be won by a team from one of the top 5 leagues UEFA will look at this competition and understand it’s not doing what it was set out to achieve.

[Alan62]

The whole UEFA set up perpetuates the domination of the bigger clubs because it pretty much ensures that the larger clubs get the lion's share of the cash.

Having said that, our ambition should be to try to qualify for the group stages. We were unfortunate on this occasion to draw a team that is, arguably, the favourite for the whole tournament. We may have stood a better chance against other opposition. The prize money for participating in the group stages would make a massive difference to our club. Even the cash we'll receive for participating this year, makes a difference to us.

[DIXIHIBS]

We were very unlucky to be drawn against Villa....possibly the best team in the competition. We showed against Luzern we can compete with similar teams from similar leagues, and that is what the conference league was meant to be about. Unfortunately it looks like teams from the top leagues are going to dominate this competition as well as champions league and Europa league. Not sure how UEFA can change this without actually banning the top teams.

[Phil MaGlass]

Maybe an idea would be to have the Conference for teams that run a budget of say up to 15mill? :dunno:

[Alan62]

We were very unlucky to be drawn against Villa....possibly the best team in the competition. We showed against Luzern we can compete with similar teams from similar leagues, and that is what the conference league was meant to be about. Unfortunately it looks like teams from the top leagues are going to dominate this competition as well as champions league and Europa league. Not sure how UEFA can change this without actually banning the top teams.

The big problem is that Villa isn't a big club in terms of the English Premiership which is, in reality, an international league that just happens to be played in England. They have little to no chance of winning the Premiership but because of the financial rewards available in that league, they're miles ahead of the other clubs who participate in this particular European competition.

The real culprits in the ruination of European football probably aren't UEFA though as much as the TV companies (looking at you, Sky), the oligarchs, the sheikhs and the rest of the money launderers who have splurged their cash in the top leagues.

[Johnny Clash]

Everyone was excited about playing Villa because there was an outside chance we could rise to the occasion and at least make a game of it. We all knew the steep odds against us and a 0-5 gubbing was no surprise, but it’s these ‘glamour’ games that gets the blood pumping. I think Villa will reach the final and probably finish in top 5 in their league so nothing to be ashamed of. Just hope our players feel no pressure next week and play to their maximum potential. European experience for our squad will do no harm.

[JamesHFC]

Aston Villa would probably give a good account of themselves in the Champions League, they have a terrific manager and a very good squad. No shame in losing last night. We probably wouldn't have lost by as many to majority of the other sides we could have faced yesterday but it would have been an uphill battle from the off.

We just need to go and win the Scottish Cup to secure group stages.

Hearts & Aberdeen have had their turn, time for us to have a bit now.

[DIXIHIBS]

The big problem is that Villa isn't a big club in terms of the English Premiership which is, in reality, an international league that just happens to be played in England. They have little to no chance of winning the Premiership but because of the financial rewards available in that league, they're miles ahead of the other clubs who participate in this particular European competition.

The real culprits in the ruination of European football probably aren't UEFA though as much as the TV companies (looking at you, Sky), the oligarchs, the sheikhs and the rest of the money launderers who have splurged their cash in the top leagues.

Villa are looking at top 6 this season so i disagree they are not a big club. Yes they are not man city but turnover something like £180 million compared to our £12m. Agree they are not gonna win the league but how many down there have a chance....2 or 3 maybe?.

[Real Emerald]

TBH we don’t have a squad good enough to compete in our own league at the moment. Trying to compete in Europe and domestically is a step too far. Just let’s hope we’ve made a wee bit money that could help us sign a couple of players before the window closes.

The last few years of awful recruitment has left our squad in a very poor state. We simply have to add some quality in key areas or we’re going to be bottom dwellers all season.

[Greenbeard]

Everyone was excited about playing Villa because there was an outside chance we could rise to the occasion and at least make a game of it. We all knew the steep odds against us and a 0-5 gubbing was no surprise, but it’s these ‘glamour’ games that gets the blood pumping. I think Villa will reach the final and probably finish in top 5 in their league so nothing to be ashamed of. Just hope our players feel no pressure next week and play to their maximum potential. European experience for our squad will do no harm.
Yes, you want your chance against a "big" club every so often, but ideally in the Groups rather than a knock-out qualifier. 22 teams qualify for the Group stages through the play-offs, and 10 drop down from Europa League qualifying giving 32 teams for the Groups. I'd argue that there would be some merit in a number of the top ranked teams (per the co-efficient?) qualifying directly to the Group stage, maybe six (?), leaving 16 to come through the play-offs. So clubs like Villa, maybe Frankfurt, Fiorentina, Fenerbahce (and of course Hearts :wink:) would go straight into the groups. It would still be tough for Hibs to qualify for the Groups but we wouldn't be so far adrift on paper if we didn't have these sort of clubs in the play-offs.

[Onion]

Last night showed the gulf - what concerned me the most is how are Scottish teams meant to compete in Europe if the money elsewhere is so vast.

Even Hearts last year got a were taken apart in the group stages of the conference league.

Feels like we are in a weird place that we want to get into Europe but actually never ready for Europe.

As money goes to other teams and leagues in Scotland the gulf grows.

It’s an issue and just can’t see it improving anytime soon unless Scottish football brings in more £ which filters down.

Old Firm qualifying just widens the gap even further - hence why I still find it hard to actually give them any support in Europe. The co-Efficient obviously is important but it’s also a massive concern.

Problem with the Conf League is that there will be clubs in Scotland and England that really have no right to be involved. In Scotland, the decent coefficient means that small, pretty crap clubs can qualify. In England, some huge clubs which could easily compete in the Europa or Champions League are finding their way in. When these meet, you get a Wednesday night.

In saying that, Hibs were REALLY unlucky to draw such a monster club as AV at this stage of the competition. There were a few clubs left which would give us a fighting chance of reaching the group stages. Villa was not one of them.

[Gatecrasher]

The groups stages would be huge if a team could do it for 2 or 3 years on the bounce. That would be in the region of £15-20M extra in the coffers and that allows you to secure among the best players in the market clubs like us operate in, sadly Hearts have half a chance of doing it, their tie is tough one but it's no Aston Villa. Reaching the group stages isn't about thinking you can win the whole thing but about laying foundations to build on it year on year, improve incrementally and maybe be in a position to reach a knockout round.

Hearts have had their shot and may get another, Aberdeen are getting their turn. This season has to be all about us making sure neither gets it again and the only team over 38 games who should be able to stop them is us.

:agree: I would argue even just getting qualifying consistently, with the extra revenue and experience would build into something bigger. Unfortunately we don't seem to be able to do it that often.

[Hibby Bairn]

The conference wasn't created to give teams like ours a chance. It was created to give second level clubs from big leagues an additional revenue stream and a chance of a European trophy.

It also acts as a safety net for any top level team that falls out of the other two competitions.

It's operating exactly as designed.

[Dashing Bob S]

Third place gives you a parachute into the Conference group stages (once you've been emptied from the Europa) and the prospect of making some catch. Fourth is a difficult ask. Fifth and you're pretty much cannon fodder. Bit of a waste of time.

[GreenGray]

The conference wasn't created to give teams like ours a chance. It was created to give second level clubs from big leagues an additional revenue stream and a chance of a European trophy.

It also acts as a safety net for any top level team that falls out of the other two competitions.

It's operating exactly as designed.

I thought it was designed to give clubs who wouldn’t usually get to experience a European run the chance too?

Problem is it will be dominated by Prem teams for years as the 6th/7th best team in the Prem is miles better than the rest.


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[Daily Hibs]

Last night showed the gulf - what concerned me the most is how are Scottish teams meant to compete in Europe if the money elsewhere is so vast.

Even Hearts last year got a were taken apart in the group stages of the conference league.

Feels like we are in a weird place that we want to get into Europe but actually never ready for Europe.

As money goes to other teams and leagues in Scotland the gulf grows.

It’s an issue and just can’t see it improving anytime soon unless Scottish football brings in more £ which filters down.

Old Firm qualifying just widens the gap even further - hence why I still find it hard to actually give them any support in Europe. The co-Efficient obviously is important but it’s also a massive concern.

Good post.

Thats why I was surprised to see a fellow Hibs fan post on here that Rangers and Celtic should be investing in the league by signing players from the other clubs in the league which makes no sense.

For me, from a selfish point of view for Hibs to be able to compete more domestically I would want the coefficient to become as worse as possible so that Rangers and Celtic dont get the riches that come with European Football. Ideally only the League winner would get a Conference League spot, this would narrow the gap between the old firm and the rest. As we've seen us being in Europe has little benefit to us really, our league form is in danger of suffering.

Its a similar concept to having a 16 team league and playing each other only twice - the economy of scale would narrow but it would ultimately make us more competitive domestically and we might get closer to winning the league.

[steve75]

I thought it was designed to give clubs who wouldn’t usually get to experience a European run the chance too?

Problem is it will be dominated by Prem teams for years as the 6th/7th best team in the Prem is miles better than the rest.


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I think it was advertised as such, technically there are additional places for the smaller leagues so UEFA can argue the point.

But it's really just another competition for the top leagues to compete against each other in.

As Hibby Bairn says, working as designed.

[Since452]

Last night showed the gulf - what concerned me the most is how are Scottish teams meant to compete in Europe if the money elsewhere is so vast.

Even last year Hearts were taken apart in the group stages of the conference league.

Feels like we are in a weird place that we want to get into Europe but actually never ready for Europe.

As money goes to other teams and leagues in Scotland the gulf grows.

It’s an issue and just can’t see it improving anytime soon unless Scottish football brings in more £ which filters down.

Old Firm qualifying just widens the gap even further - hence why I still find it hard to actually give them any support in Europe. The co-Efficient obviously is important but it’s also a massive concern.

It's only a gulf to the very top leagues. We pumped out a decent Swiss side. Hearts pumped out a decent Norwegian one.

[Keepthefaith]

IMO the answer will be in growing our own, and good recruitment of younger players. Done well, would result in success for couple of years, sell players on, have a transitional year then build again but incrementally getting stronger each cycle.

It's been the model of a number of smaller clubs who haven't had access to a billionaire and is possible. Does however need stability, a good manager and a bloody good recruitment strategy!

[Carheenlea]

Pity we can’t go back to the old straight knockout format. Three tournaments, and regardless of the status of your country given a bit of luck with the draw you can enjoy a decent run, Scottish clubs included.

The group/league formats is really just a waste of everyone but the biggest clubs time. I’d rather they were more honest and just say to clubs like ourselves that sorry, doesn’t matter where you finish in your league, you’re not going to be playing in European competition.

Just hand pick the teams - 16 for each competition and get on with it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

IMO the answer will be in growing our own, and good recruitment of younger players. Done well, would result in success for couple of years, sell players on, have a transitional year then build again but incrementally getting stronger each cycle.

It's been the model of a number of smaller clubs who haven't had access to a billionaire and is possible. Does however need stability, a good manager and a bloody good recruitment strategy!

And which of the three elements you mention there do we possess :)

[lyonhibs]

Good post.

Thats why I was surprised to see a fellow Hibs fan post on here that Rangers and Celtic should be investing in the league by signing players from the other clubs in the league which makes no sense.

For me, from a selfish point of view for Hibs to be able to compete more domestically I would want the coefficient to become as worse as possible so that Rangers and Celtic dont get the riches that come with European Football. Ideally only the League winner would get a Conference League spot, this would narrow the gap between the old firm and the rest. As we've seen us being in Europe has little benefit to us really, our league form is in danger of suffering.

Its a similar concept to having a 16 team league and playing each other only twice - the economy of scale would narrow but it would ultimately make us more competitive domestically and we might get closer to winning the league.

Lunacy post about only our league winner getting a Conference League place 😂😂

Strip out all European income and the balance sheet based on turnover/any metric still places us at a gargantuan disadvantage to the OF that y won't be bridged unless some low ranking Saudi Prince decides he loves the Cabbage