League Restructure is it well overdue

[one day maybe...]

Listening to both Lee Johnson and Stevie Naismith speaking on BBC Radio Scotland asking that our teams competing in Europe are given the best opportunity to compete by entering the games fresh and not playing under the current format.
Restructuring our league would also help teams develop their youth academy players. Now i know this discussion has been done to death but could club pressure on the SFA lead to restructure?
Personally love to see us playing in a 16 team league playing home and away. I don't really care about playing the bigot brothers 8 times a year minimum, I'd rather see teams developing young Scottish players and progressing consistently into the group stages in Europe.

[CMac1988]

No sure fire benefits to Celtic or Rangers so won't happen.

[Waxy]

Even if the league was structured to its absolute best we wouldnt be getting much further than we are now.
Its more about money.

[PatHead]

Thought Anne Budge was sorting it?

[Dmas]

Even if the league was structured to its absolute best we wouldnt be getting much further than we are now.
Its more about money.

If we where going into these qualifiers with a good amount of league games under our belt we would have a lot more chance of reaching groups IMO yes it comes down luck of the draw as well, obviously having 10 games head start on Villa still wouldn’t help bridge the gap, but Hacken for example that aberdeen have 20 games into their season, it’s a winnable tie and one that the fitness could prove decisive, same with hearts tough draw not outwith the realms of possibility though having the extra match fitness could be a leveller.

As has been pointed out though until it’s having an effect on the big 2 there’s no chance of anyone listening so once they lose there automatic place again and they’ve stamped their feet blaming that on us we should maybe start lobbying for change

[LaMotta]

If we where going into these qualifiers with a good amount of league games under our belt we would have a lot more chance of reaching groups IMO yes it comes down luck of the draw as well, obviously having 10 games head start on Villa still wouldn’t help bridge the gap, but Hacken for example that aberdeen have 20 games into their season, it’s a winnable tie and one that the fitness could prove decisive, same with hearts tough draw not outwith the realms of possibility though having the extra match fitness could be a leveller.

As has been pointed out though until it’s having an effect on the big 2 there’s no chance of anyone listening so once they lose there automatic place again and they’ve stamped their feet blaming that on us we should maybe start lobbying for change

Don't buy that argument. If it mattered so much then why did we comfortably beat Luzern and Djurgardens of Sweden couldn't?

Scotland has a higher coefficient than all Scandinavian countries as well.

[J-C]

Unfortunately TV, Rangers and Celtic demand 4 OF games every year.

[Dmas]

Don't buy that argument. If it mattered so much then why did we comfortably beat Luzern and Djurgardens of Sweden couldn't?

Scotland has a higher coefficient than all Scandinavian countries as well.

coefficent is high because rangers have had a couple of out of the blue runs in europa league the rest of us have contributed bare minimum, do results like motherwell getting horsed by sligo or celic v red imps or us in andorra this year happen if we are up to speed players bedded in and 10 games into a season? i have my doubts, rangers would even have a benefit going into play teams like PSV

we should be doing all we can as a league to help the teams qualifying for europe to have the best chance of progressing and we dont do that starting the league campaign just after the qualifiers begin.

theres no griping just yet as we have 3 teams in euro competition no matter what as dons drop to conference if they loose and huns to europa if they loose, but getting a head start could have 1 or more hitting the bigger tournament benefiting the rest of the league as we'd soon have less qualifying rounds for a conference place

[Colr]

Listening to both Lee Johnson and Stevie Naismith speaking on BBC Radio Scotland asking that our teams competing in Europe are given the best opportunity to compete by entering the games fresh and not playing under the current format.
Restructuring our league would also help teams develop their youth academy players. Now i know this discussion has been done to death but could club pressure on the SFA lead to restructure?
Personally love to see us playing in a 16 team league playing home and away. I don't really care about playing the bigot brothers 8 times a year minimum, I'd rather see teams developing young Scottish players and progressing consistently into the group stages in Europe.

They seem to manage to reschedule games to help Rankers and Ceptic easy enough.

[007]

Thought Anne Budge was sorting it?

For some unknown reason she no longer gives a toss about it. Bizarre! 🤷

[Wakeyhibee]

Unfortunately TV, Rangers and Celtic demand 4 OF games every year.

Sadly money talks. It does mean the Dundee, Particks, Dunfys of Scottish Football are too busy trying to survive to bother looking further than a couple of seasons. Whilst crowds are good I can't see it happening no matter how much sense it makes in giving sides a breathing space in developing/investing time in talent & therefore better competition in depth.

[Eyrie]

There is probably a case for allowing a team playing in Europe to have one home game postponed until later in the season to help them out with qualifiers in August. The problem then is finding a spare slot to play the rearranged fixture.

Personally I'd do away with the winter break and reduce the ridiculous workload in December.

[HarpOnHibee]

Unfortunately TV, Rangers and Celtic demand 4 OF games every year.

They're welcome to play each other 30 odd times a season.

[Broxburn Greens]

Had the chance to have meaningful change on the table when the motion to change the voting structure was made.

We can all thank Aberdeen who for some reason thought it was good idea to maintain the 11-1 majority by voting with Celtic.


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[ScottB]

Even just kicking the League Cup 2 weeks down the road would be enough to keep most of the qualifiers clear of some games…

[matty_f]

Listening to both Lee Johnson and Stevie Naismith speaking on BBC Radio Scotland asking that our teams competing in Europe are given the best opportunity to compete by entering the games fresh and not playing under the current format.
Restructuring our league would also help teams develop their youth academy players. Now i know this discussion has been done to death but could club pressure on the SFA lead to restructure?
Personally love to see us playing in a 16 team league playing home and away. I don't really care about playing the bigot brothers 8 times a year minimum, I'd rather see teams developing young Scottish players and progressing consistently into the group stages in Europe.

Used this post to discuss the issue for the podcast tonight, and it's hard to see how reconstruction is viable and how it would help - we want the league season started when we start in Europe, the conversation about other teams bring into their seasons while we're still in pre-season was an excuse for poor results for years.

A bigger league would still have given us fixtures to play over the last couple of weekends and the league cup format had already been changed to suit Euro teams.

We had a good discussion about it and still don't think we came up with a perfect solution.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Unfortunately TV, Rangers and Celtic demand 4 OF games every year.

You can still reorganise the league and have the TV holy grail of 4 bigotfests a season.

The worst thing about the current format is the plainly daft situation of uneven home and away fixtures pre split. EG Hibs go to Tynecastle twice and Hearts visit us once, or vice versa. A 14 team league playing home and away gives you 26 league games. Then go to a 6 / 8 split, playing each other home and away. That gives the top six 36 games and the bottom eight 40 games.

You can sort the season ticket conundrum by having a rule that bottom 8 clubs can only charge a max of £15 a ticket for their final 2 home games.

Dump the frankly idiotic LC group stages to accommodate the extra 4 games the bottom 8 will end up having and make the first round only division 1 and 2 teams with the premiership and championship coming in after that ... for teams in the top two leagues you would only have to win 4 games to win the bloomin' thing.

Two automatically relegated with 12th in the premiership playing 3rd in the championship in a one off game at a suitable neutral venue.

The most any club in the top division would end up playing domestically is 50 games and that's only if the club who ends up in the playoff game also gets to the Scottish and League cup finals .. not very likely I would have thought.

Teams in EFL league 2 play 46 league games plus league and FA cup ties, so its not asking the earth for a Scottish premiership team to play 40 league games and cup ties in two cup competitions with far fewer entries than the two English cups have.

The positives are you increase the premiership by two teams and bring balance to the fixtures pre and post split. The negatives are a few more league games for the bottom 8, who lets face it are highly unlikely to have Europe to contend with by the time the league splits ... if they did have at all.

[007]

You can still reorganise the league and have the TV holy grail of 4 bigotfests a season.

The worst thing about the current format is the plainly daft situation of uneven home and away fixtures pre split. EG Hibs go to Tynecastle twice and Hearts visit us once, or vice versa. A 14 team league playing home and away gives you 26 league games. Then go to a 6 / 8 split, playing each other home and away. That gives the top six 36 games and the bottom eight 40 games.

You can sort the season ticket conundrum by having a rule that bottom 8 clubs can only charge a max of £15 a ticket for their final 2 home games.

Dump the frankly idiotic LC group stages to accommodate the extra 4 games the bottom 8 will end up having and make the first round only division 1 and 2 teams with the premiership and championship coming in after that ... for teams in the top two leagues you would only have to win 4 games to win the bloomin' thing.

Two automatically relegated with 12th in the premiership playing 3rd in the championship in a one off game at a suitable neutral venue.

The most any club in the top division would end up playing domestically is 50 games and that's only if the club who ends up in the playoff game also gets to the Scottish and League cup finals .. not very likely I would have thought.

Teams in EFL league 2 play 46 league games plus league and FA cup ties, so its not asking the earth for a Scottish premiership team to play 40 league games and cup ties in two cup competitions with far fewer entries than the two English cups have.

The positives are you increase the premiership by two teams and bring balance to the fixtures pre and post split. The negatives are a few more league games for the bottom 8, who lets face it are highly unlikely to have Europe to contend with by the time the league splits ... if they did have at all.

I'd cancel my season ticket if it went to that format. If we were in 7th after 26 games, 14 matches against the bottom teams competing for the £200k/£300k more we'd get for 7th place over 8th or 9th doesn't appeal.

[chippy]

Yep the 14 club structure splits far too early even if you went with a 7/7 or 8/6 split. Although it looks a little complicated I think the 16 or even an 18 structure works much better. Of course you have more splits but you’ve had 30 or 34 games and then further home and away ties for the title/ euro spots. 10 games in a top 6 or 6 games in a top 4 if an 18 team league. Below the title group you can have another one or two sections playing for a final euro place play off with say the 5th in the top group. Then you have thr relegation group. The Belgian Pro league reduces the points differences when it comes to the top six. Personally I wouldn’t do that but what I would do would be award 5 pints for a win so that even if the top team had a large advantage they could still be caught in the final 6 or 10 games

[son of haggart]

Had the chance to have meaningful change on the table when the motion to change the voting structure was made.

We can all thank Aberdeen who for some reason thought it was good idea to maintain the 11-1 majority by voting with Celtic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That was the biggest single disaster for scottish football since I started watching in 64. The Dons should hang their heads in shame as they consigned us to eternal torture by OF. I was raging at the time and still am.

[Northernhibee]

That was the biggest single disaster for scottish football since I started watching in 64. The Dons should hang their heads in shame as they consigned us to eternal torture by OF. I was raging at the time and still am.

I enjoy the rivalry with Hearts and have a healthy dislike of them, I despise Aberdeen to the same level I do Rangers and Celtic.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'd cancel my season ticket if it went to that format. If we were in 7th after 26 games, 14 matches against the bottom teams competing for the £200k/£300k more we'd get for 7th place over 8th or 9th doesn't appeal.

Which is the very argument against expanding the league to 18 teams, that format also leaves too many clubs with a load of meaningless fixtures too early in the season.

My other idea on a 14 team format was a 7/7 split ... to make that work meant the teams who were 7th and 14th at the split sitting out the last day of the season, the danger with that is the possibility of two clubs unofficially agreeing a draw on the last day to either avoid relegation or guarantee both a European place ..... Hibs and Rangers practically did that on the last day a few years back, giving them the league and us a European place.

I don't have a problem with a split, this country doesn't have enough strong teams to make anything bigger than a 16 team league work and even that's a stretch. Nobody is going to agree to a league with only 30 fixtures so the split is here to stay IMO ... the only thing that needs addressed is the unbalanced home and away issue pre split which exists presently.

Its clear that if we want a bigger league and an even distribution of fixtures something will have to be sacrificed, for example being open to the jeopardy of sitting out the last day for two clubs ... if nobody accepts that then the status quo it is.

[Keith_M]

"is it well overdue?"


You'd need to ask Hearts about that one.

[Keith_M]

That was the biggest single disaster for scottish football since I started watching in 64. The Dons should hang their heads in shame as they consigned us to eternal torture by OF. I was raging at the time and still am.


:agree:

[Jones28]

What does league reconstruction achieve other than re-shuffle the deckchairs?

12 teams is the only number that gives us 38 games with the split - which I think should stay - without doing things like having teams play extra matches.

We've got enough games to squeeze into the season without playing extra matches by having a bigger league.

The real league structure issues IMO is fixture congestion due to the winter break. Why are we having a break? What does it achieve? Pitches don't recover because grass doesn't grow in January, so unless there's some incredible statistic about injuries and attendances improving due to the break then scrap it.

[Keith_M]

...
The real league structure issues IMO is fixture congestion due to the winter break. Why are we having a break? What does it achieve? Pitches don't recover because grass doesn't grow in January, so unless there's some incredible statistic about injuries and attendances improving due to the break then scrap it.


Yeah, the only thing it achieves is forcing the clubs to play 8/9 games in December, which surely defeats the purpose.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yeah, the only thing it achieves is forcing the clubs to play 8/9 games in December, which surely defeats the purpose.

:agree:

Of all the dumbass things the SPFL are capable of this is without doubt the pinnacle.

'Hey Neil coz of the winter break were gonna have to overload one month of the season with fixtures, any suggestions?'

'Erm, yeh. After careful consideration I've decided to make it the most expensive month of the year, folk can fit them in between Christmas shopping for the kids and work Christmas nights out' ... I mean, I only make £390,000 a year and if I can afford all these things as well as the fitba surely the average fan can'

If stupid was an Olympic sport the SPFL could supply the whole of the British team.

[PHeffernan]

Which is the very argument against expanding the league to 18 teams, that format also leaves too many clubs with a load of meaningless fixtures too early in the season.

My other idea on a 14 team format was a 7/7 split ... to make that work meant the teams who were 7th and 14th at the split sitting out the last day of the season, the danger with that is the possibility of two clubs unofficially agreeing a draw on the last day to either avoid relegation or guarantee both a European place ..... Hibs and Rangers practically did that on the last day a few years back, giving them the league and us a European place.

I don't have a problem with a split, this country doesn't have enough strong teams to make anything bigger than a 16 team league work and even that's a stretch. Nobody is going to agree to a league with only 30 fixtures so the split is here to stay IMO ... the only thing that needs addressed is the unbalanced home and away issue pre split which exists presently.

Its clear that if we want a bigger league and an even distribution of fixtures something will have to be sacrificed, for example being open to the jeopardy of sitting out the last day for two clubs ... if nobody accepts that then the status quo it is.

A 14 team league with a 7/7 split has long been my ideal.
It preserves the current 38 league games and allows an even split of home and away fixtures that the current system doesn't.
Basically the 14 teams play each other home and away (26 games) before a 7/7 split and then play the teams in their split home and away (12 games).
The only issue is that after the split one team has to sit out each round of fixtures but that isn't a big deal.

Those that remember the old 18 team top league will remember the teams at the bottom getting destroyed by Celgers so 14 is about the limit for the clubs we have. There are currently 3 well supported clubs outside the top league that would enhance it; Dundee Utd, Dunfermline and Falkirk.

The present top league set up was and is about one thing and one thing only, maximising revenue. That is all that the clubs in it, including Hibs, care about.
Accordingly we need to look at the financial affects of adding 2 more clubs to the top tier.

A 14 club 7/7 split league would lose 5 of the current clubs in the bottom half split 1 home game against each of the well supported teams every 2 seasons.
On the upside, 1 more club would have the opportunity to get into the top half split to play the big teams with the big supports another 2 times.
The other up for the smaller teams is they have more chance of avoiding relegation in a 14 team league than a 12.
League prizemoney, TV money, Sponsorship etc would have to be split 14 ways instead of 12.
So everyone takes a small hit financially but there are benefits for 12 clubs including the extra two teams. Celgers would be largely unaffected.

[PHeffernan]

Yeah, the only thing it achieves is forcing the clubs to play 8/9 games in December, which surely defeats the purpose.

It does. Far more chance of breaking your players under a heavy playing load.
It is madness.

[ScottB]

The Belgian system is interesting, though the Old Firm would never go for it you’d suspect.

16 team league, playing home and away. Top 6 then go into a championship play off group, with points halved, play home and away. Then 7-14th do the same, with a playoff between the winners of this group and a team from the above playoff for the last European place. The bottom teams seem to compete in a play off group against sides from the league below.

Fairly complex, but definitely introduces a lot of jeopardy and potential reward at the end of the season, as well as perhaps the chance for at least one of the Old Firm to stumble. Also avoids post split games being meaningless for sides in the bottom half, though maybe the Belgians have more euro spots to share out than we do…

[allezsauzee]

I would definitely get rid of the "winter break" that is really just playing some of January's games in December, however I would not be in favour of increasing the number of teams in the Premier and would maybe prefer 10 teams with 2 up and 2 down while keeping the split and play off system. To me, the more competitive the games are the better and it will attract bigger crowds if most if not all the teams have something to play for.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I would definitely get rid of the "winter break" that is really just playing some of January's games in December, however I would not be in favour of increasing the number of teams in the Premier and would maybe prefer 10 teams with 2 up and 2 down while keeping the split and play off system. To me, the more competitive the games are the better and it will attract bigger crowds if most if not all the teams have something to play for.

IMO the idea has to be to increase the variety of teams we pay to watch, not go back to a 10 team league where you see the same 9 teams twice a year. A bigger league will also give a chance to clubs with a bit of potential to make the top league and stay there for more than a couple of seasons ... Dunfermline, Falkirk, Ayr United and Partick Thistle spring to mind, might also do a favour to yoyo clubs like Dundee.

Also, there's far more chance of financial stability if the threat of relegation is lessened somewhat by having a bigger league.

On a personal note, nothing to do with reconstruction, but a lot to do with variety I would introduce a rule that clubs can only play in their 'away' kit if there is a genuine colour clash ... I am heartily sick of seeing half the clubs Hibs play at Easter Road wearing the all pervasive black kits ... does ma bloody heid in.

[chippy]

IMO the idea has to be to increase the variety of teams we pay to watch, not go back to a 10 team league where you see the same 9 teams twice a year. A bigger league will also give a chance to clubs with a bit of potential to make the top league and stay there for more than a couple of seasons ... Dunfermline, Falkirk, Ayr United and Partick Thistle spring to mind, might also do a favour to yoyo clubs like Dundee.

Also, there's far more chance of financial stability if the threat of relegation is lessened somewhat by having a bigger league.

On a personal note, nothing to do with reconstruction, but a lot to do with variety I would introduce a rule that clubs can only play in their 'away' kit if there is a genuine colour clash ... I am heartily sick of seeing half the clubs Hibs play at Easter Road wearing the all pervasive black kits ... does ma bloody heid in.

Totally agree with your points in your posts on this thread. Could I just add that
a new structure like this would be more appealing to TV. If I read correctly the Hibs Vs Luzern home game had a TV audience of 280, 000. We must consider how that can be monetised in an SPFL and/ or Atlantic League scenario

[wookie70]

There is probably a case for allowing a team playing in Europe to have one home game postponed until later in the season to help them out with qualifiers in August. The problem then is finding a spare slot to play the rearranged fixture.

Personally I'd do away with the winter break and reduce the ridiculous workload in December.

I'd be in favour of a restructure but stopping the winter shut down and freeing up those weeks so December is less busy and a club playing in Europe could choose to more 1 or 2 games is a good immediate solution.

[greenpaper55]

A sixteen team league playing each other twice, league cup sections of four as a prelude to the league starting. Meaningless games were mentioned as a problem but we still have them the way things are, a bigger league allows you to play some of the younger players with maybe some of the pressure off so there is a benefit in the idea, last time we had a sixteen team league we won it !

[Wakeyhibee]

Which is the very argument against expanding the league to 18 teams, that format also leaves too many clubs with a load of meaningless fixtures too early in the season.

My other idea on a 14 team format was a 7/7 split ... to make that work meant the teams who were 7th and 14th at the split sitting out the last day of the season, the danger with that is the possibility of two clubs unofficially agreeing a draw on the last day to either avoid relegation or guarantee both a European place ..... Hibs and Rangers practically did that on the last day a few years back, giving them the league and us a European place.

I don't have a problem with a split, this country doesn't have enough strong teams to make anything bigger than a 16 team league work and even that's a stretch. Nobody is going to agree to a league with only 30 fixtures so the split is here to stay IMO ... the only thing that needs addressed is the unbalanced home and away issue pre split which exists presently.

Its clear that if we want a bigger league and an even distribution of fixtures something will have to be sacrificed, for example being open to the jeopardy of sitting out the last day for two clubs ... if nobody accepts that then the status quo it is.

One point people miss on the dead rubber games argument from the 70s is that there are now 5 places in Europe not 4. We now use the play offs not 2 up 2 down so could be 2 +1 possible relegation place in an 18 league and the biggest one is 3pts for a win not 2 that makes movement in league places much more volatile.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Ideally a 16 team league with a split would be my choice. But just don't know we have the numbers for a 16 team top flight? Also eliminates 1 OF game, which is all broadcasters care about so...

14 team with a 6/8 split playing 2 rounds pre and post split might be a suitable alternative

We need to ditch the winter break. Utter nonsense. 7 league games in December followed by 2 in January... wtf!?

[WestStandWillie]

The Glasgow Media, Sky Sports, BBC Scotland won't want to lose a guaranteed OF game so absolutely nae chance.

Mair chance of John McGinn running out wearing a Hibs jersey tomorrow night

[Jones28]

A sixteen team league playing each other twice, league cup sections of four as a prelude to the league starting. Meaningless games were mentioned as a problem but we still have them the way things are, a bigger league allows you to play some of the younger players with maybe some of the pressure off so there is a benefit in the idea, last time we had a sixteen team league we won it !

When was the last time we had a meaningless game?

None last season, season before that we were trying to get 7th, maybe the season before that when we secured 3rd at Pittodrie?

I think the meaningless game thing wiht the current set up is a bit of a red herring, it's more that a bigger league would mean a higher chance of fixtures with no impact because you'd have more teams.

[allezsauzee]

Between the split, the play off and 5 European places we have managed to get to a place where there aren't many meaningless games. I think the SPFL should get a bit of credit for achieving that as I don't think there's may leagues where that is the case. I really don't understand why you would want to change to a format where you have a lot of no pressure games (ie meaningless) just so clubs feel more inclined to blood a few youngsters. We can put players out on loan if we want them to play but don't think they quite at our level yet. Also, it could also impact season ticket sales because I'd have thought there will be less demand for tickets to watch us play the likes of Raith and Morton than there is for the additional games against Hearts, Aberdeen, the Old Firm that we'd be giving up.

[Smartie]

I actually really like the set up we've got at the moment.

It's quirky, for sure, and probably not the choice you'd go for if we were a bigger country but I think it does a good job of making the most of the hand we've been dealt.

I'd maybe make it a bit easier to escape the Championship up the way (and make it easier for one more team to get relegated), but that's about it.

Oh, I'd also ditch the winter break. Pointless nonsense.

I feel far too much emphasis is placed on the number of teams in each senior league when it comes to our periods of soul-searching when Scottish football is underperforming, when it should be more about the number of youngsters playing football regularly, the number of hours they play, the amount of coaching they get and the cost and quality of the facilities they can use.

But it's hard to argue that the state of our game isn't improving right now, across all sorts of metrics.

[Nutmegged]

16 team top tier

Split it into four groups of four after you've played everyone twice (30 games) and play each other a further twice Home & Away (36 game total)

Top four - Championship Group
Conference League Playoff Group
Then bottom 8 into two relegation Groups

1 - Champions
2 - Europe
3 - Europe
4 - European Play-Off
__________
5 - European Play-Off
6
7
8
__________
. 9 Relegation Group B
10 Relegation Group A
11 Relegation Group B
12 Relegation Group A
13 Relegation Group B - Relegation Play-Off
14 Relegation Group A - Relegation Play-Off
15 Relegation Group B - Automatic Relegation
16 Relegation Group A - Automatic Relegation

• Team that finishes 4th has a European Play-Off with team that finishes 5th

• Teams who finish bottom of each of the Relegation groups are automatically relegated

• The two teams who finish second bottom of each Relegation group have a Relegation Play-Off

• Points halved at the split.

[chippy]

16 team top tier

Split it into four groups of four after you've played everyone twice (30 games) and play each other a further twice Home & Away (36 game total)

Top four - Championship Group
Conference League Playoff Group
Then bottom 8 into two relegation Groups

1 - Champions
2 - Europe
3 - Europe
4 - European Play-Off
__________
5 - European Play-Off
6
7
8
__________
. 9 Relegation Group B
10 Relegation Group A
11 Relegation Group B
12 Relegation Group A
13 Relegation Group B - Relegation Play-Off
14 Relegation Group A - Relegation Play-Off
15 Relegation Group B - Automatic Relegation
16 Relegation Group A - Automatic Relegation

• Team that finishes 4th has a European Play-Off with team that finishes 5th

• Teams who finish bottom of each of the Relegation groups are automatically relegated

• The two teams who finish second bottom of each Relegation group have a Relegation Play-Off

• Points halved at the split.

Not bad. Three issues- firstly I wouldn’t halve the pints differential at the split as I think that’s unfair and old firm would never back that. What I would do though is increase the points for a win after the split to 5 or 6 , so that there real competition for the toom4 places.

Secondly the relegation group should only be the bottom 4 and I’d only relegate 2 maximum. 1 directly and 1 a play off with the winner of the promotion play off in the Champs.
Thirdly clubs 5-12 play in two groups for the play off spot for the 5th Euro place.
Let’s give our middle ranking clubs some protection and stability rather than too many threatened with relegation - better those 4 clubs in 9-12 spot are involved in possibly challenging for the final Euro place

[declan macmanus]

16 team top tier

Split it into four groups of four after you've played everyone twice (30 games) and play each other a further twice Home & Away (36 game total)

Top four - Championship Group
Conference League Playoff Group
Then bottom 8 into two relegation Groups

1 - Champions
2 - Europe
3 - Europe
4 - European Play-Off
__________
5 - European Play-Off
6
7
8
__________
. 9 Relegation Group B
10 Relegation Group A
11 Relegation Group B
12 Relegation Group A
13 Relegation Group B - Relegation Play-Off
14 Relegation Group A - Relegation Play-Off
15 Relegation Group B - Automatic Relegation
16 Relegation Group A - Automatic Relegation

• Team that finishes 4th has a European Play-Off with team that finishes 5th

• Teams who finish bottom of each of the Relegation groups are automatically relegated

• The two teams who finish second bottom of each Relegation group have a Relegation Play-Off

• Points halved at the split.

Another problem is that uefa insists on an europa league spot for cup winners


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[Kano Kirsty]

Think we’re going to need it now. Jeez.