The Greendykes House Double Murder Trial

[Edina Street]

Apologies if this topic has been discussed on this forum before, but after looking for something concerning this horrific double murder, I can find nothing. All I know is that a father and son have been arrested and charged with a gruesome double murder which is rumoured to have involved the victims being mutilated with a Stanley blade, having a hatchet drilled in to the back of their skulls, their ears and noses chopped off, and nails hammered through their eyeballs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3TQfaVlsyI&t=2s

The suspects were named by Police a way back in November 2022, so obviously most people on this forum will already be aware of the event.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/man-appears-court-accused-double-28412333

Ian MacLeod, 65, is charged with murdering two men, aged 37 and 66, at a block of flats in the city's Greendykes Road.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/second-man-appears-court-charged-28429053

Denim McLeod, also known as Dean, made no plea during the private hearing at Edinburgh Sheriff Court on Monday, November 7, after being arrested in connection with the double death.

I am sure quite a lot of people on this forum will know the father and son concerned, especially Ian McLeod, whom had a very hard and notorious reputation around Leith, and was once considered a leader of the LYT, or YLT, or whatever the Leith team refer to themselves as.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Crime+Capital%3B+The+street+gangs+of+the+1960s+and +70s+spawned+a+new...-a0130202910

Turnbull recalls: 'Every gang needed some type of leader. Ian 'Bronco' McLeod of the Leith Team was fearless and gave the more timid guys in the gang some bottle. Believe me,Bronco was one hard case.


Apologies that this is probably old news to most people here, but what fascinates me about this case is that I have had dealings with both the named suspects in the past, and my eldest brother came out second best in a fight against Bronco. So if anyone has any thoughts, comments or information regarding this grotesque happening in Edinburgh, please share it.

Does anyone at least know when the trial will be?

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Following

[nonshinyfinish]

Previous thread: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?359845-Craigmillar-deaths

[Stairway 2 7]

I wouldn't highlight the reddit group or down that road. It's not good to speculate on ongoing trials like this on public forums. It could jeopardise the case or get yourself in bother.

[Edina Street]

I wouldn't highlight the reddit group or down that road. It's not good to speculate on ongoing trials like this on public forums. It could jeopardise the case or get yourself in bother.

Perhaps sound advice. I will remove.

[LunasBoots]

Apologies if this topic has been discussed on this forum before, but after looking for something concerning this horrific double murder, I can find nothing. All I know is that a father and son have been arrested and charged with a gruesome double murder which is rumoured to have involved the victims being mutilated with a Stanley blade, having a hatchet drilled in to the back of their skulls, their ears and noses chopped off, and nails hammered through their eyeballs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3TQfaVlsyI&t=2s

The suspects were named by Police a way back in November 2022, so obviously most people on this forum will already be aware of the event.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/man-appears-court-accused-double-28412333


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/second-man-appears-court-charged-28429053


I am sure quite a lot of people on this forum will know the father and son concerned, especially Ian McLeod, whom had a very hard and notorious reputation around Leith, and was once considered a leader of the LYT, or YLT, or whatever the Leith team refer to themselves as.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Crime+Capital%3B+The+street+gangs+of+the+1960s+and +70s+spawned+a+new...-a0130202910



Apologies that this is probably old news to most people here, but what fascinates me about this case is that I have had dealings with both the named suspects in the past, and my eldest brother came out second best in a fight against Bronco. So if anyone has any thoughts, comments or information regarding this grotesque happening in Edinburgh, please share it.

Does anyone at least know when the trial will be?

They where up at court today, pretty horrible and gruesome

[Edina Street]

They where up at court today, pretty horrible and gruesomeThank you for the update. I just wonder if the criminally insane and horrific nature of the crime will have the judge considering adding the defendants to this list here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole_life_orders

[silverhibee]

Thank you for the update. I just wonder if the criminally insane and horrific nature of the crime will have the judge considering adding the defendants to this list here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole_life_orders

If found guilty one will certainly die in prison and the other will be a very old man when he gets out, if he does, 30 plus years if they are found guilty, or maybe a deal might be done where Dad gets convicted of both counts and son gets lesser sentence due to reduced charges.

[Hiber-nation]

Thank you for the update. I just wonder if the criminally insane and horrific nature of the crime will have the judge considering adding the defendants to this list here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole_life_orders

Can't believe how many of them I haven't heard of.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-66509678

Beggars belief what some human beings are capable of.

[Edina Street]

Just read the BBC article provided by He's here, and am trying to think of words to describe. Apparently one of them has been accused of extortion and loan sharking, as well as drug dealing, and they both carved LYT on their victims foreheads. Isn't there still a whole host of 40 to 50 year olds still pledging their allegiances to the LYT on their facebook pages? Don't a lot of people have a lot of respect for gangsters and they are idols and role models to many? So based upon this, and using the mindset of many gang members I will use words such as "admirable", to describe the act of loan sharking and extorting someone for six years. For drug dealing, I would actually use the word "heroic" as many view drug dealers as being "heroes". For the act of carving LYT on their victims foreheads I will use the word "legend". I mean, isn't that what top gangsters do? Surely for hoodlums this is something you only see in the movies. It is what happens to those that don't pay up, grass, snitch, apologies if I can't think of any other cool gangster phrases to describe it. But wait, I've just read what they done to their victims, they torched paper on to their foreheads. That is pretty "depraved". They left weapons embedded in their skulls, now that is pretty "evil". They chopped certain parts of their victims bodies up, this is all beginning to sound a bit weird. The term "weirdos" springs to mind, but also "Sado-masochists". They sliced their bodies with a knife, nah, this is just "Satanic". What? They hammered nails into their eyeballs? Nah, sorry, there are no words, this is just complete "insanity", totally "sadistic". Those are not words we associate with gangsters, but it is amazing how many gangsters that have been idols and role models to many have turned out to be very "uncool".. Manchester recently experienced this. Dominic Noonan. Hero to thousands and celebrity gangster that appeared in Donal Mcintyre's documentary bragging that he had killed about 25 people and had more guns than the MET recently got found guilty of being a serial rapist of children. I hope this encourages young would be gangsters to seperate their fantasies about being a gangster, from the reality that most gangsters are actually just horrific "abusers" that are "despised" by the world at large. For most, those lunatics "are not" feared. They are simply looked down upon and viewed with contempt. It is only a small minority that actually fear and respect those types. Sometimes that small minority can look like a lot when you group them together in a "gang" and give them a name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Noonan

[Jones28]

People glamorise gangsters. The same people that did these things.

Strange really.

[Mon Dieu4]

Just read the BBC article provided by He's here, and am trying to think of words to describe. Apparently one of them has been accused of extortion and loan sharking, as well as drug dealing, and they both carved LYT on their victims foreheads. Isn't there still a whole host of 40 to 50 year olds still pledging their allegiances to the LYT on their facebook pages? Don't a lot of people have a lot of respect for gangsters and they are idols and role models to many? So based upon this, and using the mindset of many gang members I will use words such as "admirable", to describe the act of loan sharking and extorting someone for six years. For drug dealing, I would actually use the word "heroic" as many view drug dealers as being "heroes". For the act of carving LYT on their victims foreheads I will use the word "legend". I mean, isn't that what top gangsters do? Surely for hoodlums this is something you only see in the movies. It is what happens to those that don't pay up, grass, snitch, apologies if I can't think of any other cool gangster phrases to describe it. But wait, I've just read what they done to their victims, they torched paper on to their foreheads. That is pretty "depraved". They left weapons embedded in their skulls, now that is pretty evil. They chopped certain parts of their victims bodies up, this is all beginning to sound a bit weird. The term "weirdos" springs to mind, but also "Sado-masochists". They sliced their bodies with a knife, nah, this is just "Satanic". What? They hammered nails into their eyeballs? Nah, sorry, there are no words, this is just complete "insanity", totally "sadistic". Those are not words we associate with gangsters, but it is amazing how many gangsters that have been idols and role models to many have turned out to be very "uncool".. Manchester recently experienced this. Dominic Noonan. Hero to thousands and celebrity gangster that appeared in Donal Mcintyre's documentary bragging that he had killed about 25 people and had more guns than the MET recently got found guilty of being a serial rapist of children. I hope this encourages young would be gangsters to seperate their fantasies about being a gangster, from the reality that most gangsters are actually just horrific "abusers" that are "despised" by the world at large. For most, those lunatics "are not" feared. They are simply looked down upon and viewed with contempt. It is only a small minority that actually fear and respect those types. Sometimes that small minority can look like a lot when you group them together in a "gang" and give them a name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Noonan

Use of YLT stopped being anything to do with gangs years and years ago, these days it's more like marketing Leith as a place or that you are from Leith, it's effectively just a logo or something people from Leith say to each other, wouldn't look too much into it other than that to be honest, it's not anyone glamourising this kind of behaviour

[Paulie Walnuts]

Use of YLT stopped being anything to do with gangs years and years ago, these days it's more like marketing Leith as a place or that you are from Leith, it's effectively just a logo or something people from Leith say to each other, wouldn't look too much into it other than that to be honest

:agree:

It’s a bit misguided, but nobody that is talking about YLT these days is condoning anything to do with this sort of stuff imo. It’s more like a slogan for the fact you’re from Leith.

[Edina Street]

Use of YLT stopped being anything to do with gangs years and years ago, these days it's more like marketing Leith as a place or that you are from Leith, it's effectively just a logo or something people from Leith say to each other, wouldn't look too much into it other than that to be honest, it's not anyone glamourising this kind of behaviourWell it is pleasing to hear that this gang made up of a small group of fantasists that walk around imagining themselves to be a gang made up of feared and respected individuals, but are actually just an amalgamation of social outcasts, only exist in my imagination.

[Mon Dieu4]

Well it is pleasing to hear that this gang made up of a small group of fantasists that walk around imagining themselves to be a gang made up of feared and respected individuals, but are actually just an amalgamation of social outcasts, only exist in my imagination.

The YLT used to be a gang, some total radges were in it, I'm 43 and have lived in Leith all my life, there has never been an actual organised YLT in my lifetime, in fact when I grew up in the 80s/90s there was more bother between people from the top end of Leith and the bottom of Leith than anything else, sure when you are a daft wee laddie you all thought you were in the YLT but it was just something that was said, over the years it became diluted and as previously said it's just something we all say to each other etc, walk round Leith these days and you will see countless Seasame Street characters flashing a YLT sign, It's pop art, you get Darren MacGregor doing a YLT sign on the pitch, it's not to glamourise anything, it's just him saying he's from Leith, we half do it for a laugh and half don't, it's hard to explain

[J-C]

Big Daz did it in a pic a few years ago, just to show he was a Leither.

[speedy_gonzales]

The YLT used to be a gang, some total radges were in it, I'm 43 and have lived in Leith all my life, there has never been an actual organised YLT in my lifetime, in fact when I grew up in the 80s/90s there was more bother between people from the top end of Leith and the bottom of Leith than anything else, sure when you are a daft wee laddie you all thought you were in the YLT but it was just something that was said, over the years it became diluted and as previously said it's just something we all say to each other etc, walk round Leith these days and you will see countless Seasame Street characters flashing a YLT sign, It's pop art, you get Darren MacGregor doing a YLT sign on the pitch, it's not to glamourise anything, it's just him saying he's from Leith, we half do it for a laugh and half don't, it's hard to explain

Ha, what you describe here is pretty much the same for the whole "Bar-Ox" that was bandied about in the late 80's/early 90's. Half the tadgers couldn't even spell it even though it was spray painted on half the walls & buildings in the Oxgangs area.

[beensaidbefore]

Ha, what you describe here is pretty much the same for the whole "Bar-Ox" that was bandied about in the late 80's/early 90's. Half the tadgers couldn't even spell it even though it was spray painted on half the walls & buildings in the Oxgangs area.That made me laugh. As someone who grew up nearby to Oxgangs, I recall your namesake being one of the main protagonists in the early 90s

[Pretty Boy]

Ha, what you describe here is pretty much the same for the whole "Bar-Ox" that was bandied about in the late 80's/early 90's. Half the tadgers couldn't even spell it even though it was spray painted on half the walls & buildings in the Oxgangs area.

I have to go through Oxgangs to visit my parents and always laugh when I see new Bar-Ox graffiti by the young team. I grew up there 3 decades ago and it wasn't even still a thing then let alone now.

Iirc there was a brief revival of sorts in the late 90s/early 00s that saw a rivalry with a group from Currie actually get pretty nasty, sure there was a couple of stabbings and a mini riot at an underage disco that saw someone get badly injured when they got bottled.

[DH1875]

Whats the story here. Random victims, friends, drug debt, rival drug dealers or what?

[Hiber-nation]

I have to go through Oxgangs to visit my parents and always laugh when I see new Bar-Ox graffiti by the young team. I grew up there 3 decades ago and it wasn't even still a thing then let alone now.

Iirc there was a brief revival of sorts in the late 90s/early 00s that saw a rivalry with a group from Currie actually get pretty nasty, sure there was a couple of stabbings and a mini riot at an underage disco that saw someone get badly injured when they got bottled.

I grew up in Currie and one night (we're talking about 1973) the Bar-ox were allegedly coming to Currie to give someone a doing. A Bar-ox boy came steaming along my street on a motorbike to be met by the local heidcase, big Mockers, standing in the middle of the road. The big man met him square on and sent the boy flying off his bike on to the pavement with the other Bar-ox boys (all 2 of them) beating a hasty retreat.

Doubt if the 2 incidents are related though and apologies for thread hijack 😁

[Paulie Walnuts]

Whats the story here. Random victims, friends, drug debt, rival drug dealers or what?

There’s all sorts of theories on Reddit. One of them suggests that those flats were specifically for a certain type of person.. if you get my drift. Think the claim is children couldn’t be housed in them. Whether that’s true or not I’ve no idea.

[Hiber-nation]

34 years minimum for both https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ced03gpjqg2o

[judas]

Just read the BBC article provided by He's here, and am trying to think of words to describe. Apparently one of them has been accused of extortion and loan sharking, as well as drug dealing, and they both carved LYT on their victims foreheads. Isn't there still a whole host of 40 to 50 year olds still pledging their allegiances to the LYT on their facebook pages? Don't a lot of people have a lot of respect for gangsters and they are idols and role models to many? So based upon this, and using the mindset of many gang members I will use words such as "admirable", to describe the act of loan sharking and extorting someone for six years. For drug dealing, I would actually use the word "heroic" as many view drug dealers as being "heroes". For the act of carving LYT on their victims foreheads I will use the word "legend". I mean, isn't that what top gangsters do? Surely for hoodlums this is something you only see in the movies. It is what happens to those that don't pay up, grass, snitch, apologies if I can't think of any other cool gangster phrases to describe it. But wait, I've just read what they done to their victims, they torched paper on to their foreheads. That is pretty "depraved". They left weapons embedded in their skulls, now that is pretty "evil". They chopped certain parts of their victims bodies up, this is all beginning to sound a bit weird. The term "weirdos" springs to mind, but also "Sado-masochists". They sliced their bodies with a knife, nah, this is just "Satanic". What? They hammered nails into their eyeballs? Nah, sorry, there are no words, this is just complete "insanity", totally "sadistic". Those are not words we associate with gangsters, but it is amazing how many gangsters that have been idols and role models to many have turned out to be very "uncool".. Manchester recently experienced this. Dominic Noonan. Hero to thousands and celebrity gangster that appeared in Donal Mcintyre's documentary bragging that he had killed about 25 people and had more guns than the MET recently got found guilty of being a serial rapist of children. I hope this encourages young would be gangsters to seperate their fantasies about being a gangster, from the reality that most gangsters are actually just horrific "abusers" that are "despised" by the world at large. For most, those lunatics "are not" feared. They are simply looked down upon and viewed with contempt. It is only a small minority that actually fear and respect those types. Sometimes that small minority can look like a lot when you group them together in a "gang" and give them a name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Noonan

A very good post and I agree with your point about the perception of gang members.

On another level, it makes me cringe when I see Hibs net members get moist and aroused when talking about Hibs casuals.

A bigger bunch of reprobates it would be hard to find and yet they are valorised on here by many who probably don’t know any of them, let alone where they have ended up.

[judas]

I saw a photo of the Mackay father and son.

I was shocked by the normal appearance of them both. No chav hairstyle, telling scars, signs of hard lives, scrapes, or drug use etc.

Just very normal gadgies - not threatening to look at. Could be your uncle, grandad, cousin whatever.

That’s a scary thought. There really are sharks among us. Always best to avoid getting into bother with or against people you do not know.

Glad I didn’t ever cross their paths in anger or in any other emotional state.

[DaveF]

It's horrendous reading the article. Was there ever any motive for doing this?

[Hiber-nation]

I saw a photo of the Mackay father and son.

I was shocked by the normal appearance of them both. No chav hairstyle, telling scars, signs of hard lives, scrapes, or drug use etc.

Just very normal gadgies - not threatening to look at. Could be your uncle, grandad, cousin whatever.

That’s a scary thought. There really are sharks among us. Always best to avoid getting into bother with or against people you do not know.

Glad I didn’t ever cross their paths in anger or in any other emotional state.

There was another thread about this when I posted that they were at the next table to me and my mates in a pub in George Street and they just needed to turn on the "stare" which made them appear a hell of a lot different than they appeared in these photos. We didn't hang around.

[babahibs]

A very good post and I agree with your point about the perception of gang members.

On another level, it makes me cringe when I see Hibs net members get moist and aroused when talking about Hibs casuals.

A bigger bunch of reprobates it would be hard to find and yet they are valorised on here by many who probably don’t know any of them, let alone where they have ended up.

I don't see anyone on here getting 'moist and aroused' when it comes to the hibs boys.

There's a few posters on here were involved back in the day, none of them are reprobates (well, maybe a little bit) :wink:

[superfurryhibby]

Not sure where the silly LYT stuff is coming from. It's YLT, Young Leith Team, as in 1,2, 3 who are we , we are the mental YLT, nah nah nah, nah nah na

Having grown up in Leith in the 70's and 80's, I can say with certainty that there was no organised YLT gang, no leaders. Just a bunch of daft laddies who came from Leith and spray painted it on walls. No doubt when making their way up the toon, to the bright lights of Clouds or Buster Browns, they would utter the YLT stuff to the laddies from Niddrie or Granton or wherever, whom they happened to get into a pagger with

Bronco was a well known nutter, even to me in my early teens in the mid 70's, the name was synonymous with bampotery.

[Hibs4185]

Not sure where the silly LYT stuff is coming from. It's YLT, Young Leith Team, as in 1,2, 3 who are we , we are the mental YLT, nah nah nah, nah nah na

Having grown up in Leith in the 70's and 80's, I can say with certainty that there was no organised YLT gang, no leaders. Just a bunch of daft laddies who came from Leith and spray painted it on walls. No doubt when making their way up the toon, to the bright lights of Clouds or Buster Browns, they would utter the YLT stuff to the laddies from Niddrie or Granton or wherever, whom they happened to get into a poagger with

Bronco was a well known nutter, even to me in my early teens in the mid 70's, the name was synonymous with bampotery.

Agree with that. I grew up in the 90’s and met his old man a couple of times. I always knew his laddie as Denim, had no idea it was Dean.

Met Denim once and he was off his face and ended up smashing one of his pals.

Good riddance to them both

[Edina Street]

"Na f--- you'z, pitty I wasn't the same man as back in the day as the targets would've been a better selection and a lot more of them for sure, they 2 were done for petty reasons really. I am sorry to let anyone down for being so evil but I was just tiered (sic) of being a laughing stock and door mat from pure T pots. - Bronco upon being sentenced to 34 years".
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-crime-father-and-son-jailed-after-admitting-murders-of-two-men-in-craigmillar-flat-4583512

So no mention of the victims being Paedophiles like what was rumoured. Sounds like they were maybe just "T-pots" that did not pay up on time. In fact, I am pretty sure that they were not even residents of the flats in Greendykes. Only Bronco was. The fact that the report says that Bronco left the men with his son whilst he travelled to one of the victims abodes to break in and kidnap his dog, would suggest that it was only Bronco that lived in the flats in Greendykes.

[McD]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-crime-father-and-son-jailed-after-admitting-murders-of-two-men-in-craigmillar-flat-4583512

So no mention of the victims being Paedophiles like what was rumoured. Sounds like they were maybe just "T-pots" that did not pay up on time. In fact, I am pretty sure that they were not even residents of the flats in Greendykes. Only Bronco was. The fact that the report says that Bronco left the men with his son whilst he travelled to one of the victims abodes to break in and kidnap his dog, would suggest that it was only Bronco that lived in the flats in Greendykes.



The article you’ve linked states clearly that one of the victims resides in the flats, as did the older defendant.

[Edina Street]

The article you’ve linked states clearly that one of the victims resides in the flats, as did the older defendant.

Sorry. I actually did not read the full report as I initially thought that the report was finished as it is seperated by adverts on my computer.

I have only just now read about the son hearing voices in his head. I missed that bit earlier.

However, I still can't find the report stating that any one other than 'the convicted' father lived in Greendykes Flats.

Can you provide a copy of the quote?

Edited.

Ah ok.


On October 31 in 2022 MacLeod senior went to the flat of his neighbour Mr Rowlings, a retired joiner, and invited him to his home. The following day would have been the victim's 67th birthday and his partner tried to call him to wish him 'happy birthday'.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Dean died yesterday in prison.

[overdrive]

Dean died yesterday in prison.

Jeez. Died a few days after attacking a prison officer with a kettle of boiling water and sugar.

[Hibrandenburg]

Jeez. Died a few days after attacking a prison officer with a kettle of boiling water and sugar.

Sounds like a huge loss to society.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Sounds like a huge loss to society.

One of life’s good guys etc.

[H18S NX]

Just had a text telling me that Bronco is dead now

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ffs another of life’s good guys.

[Scouse Hibee]

Just had a text telling me that Bronco is dead now

A double celebration!

[Hiber-nation]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/man-who-tortured-and-murdered-men-with-dad-in-edinburgh-flat-dies-behind-bars

[Jones28]

So is that the father and son now both dead in prison within days of each other?

No loss to society but does sound suspicious.

[Eaststand]

So is that the father and son now both dead in prison within days of each other?

No loss to society but does sound suspicious.

Is the Dad, Bronco really dead tho, or is it only the son who's died.

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

Is the Dad, Bronco really dead tho, or is it only the son who's died.

GGTTH

Don't think so.

It looks like the story has been misread by some.

[H18S NX]

It is true,bronco did die,he was found in his cell,according to the text i got yesterday.

[Bridge hibs]

It is true,bronco did die,he was found in his cell,according to the text i got yesterday.

Bronco is still alive, there was a recent media thing about him that said he is scared for his life in the tin pail because he doesnt have his Son to protect him anymore and there are nutters after him because of the vile crime he committed

[H18S NX]

You are absolutely right,my text message was misread,sorry for the misunderstanding.