Missing submersible

[AugustaHibs]

Scary news about the submersible going missing near the titanic site.

Can’t say I have too much sympathy for billionaires who have paid 250k to go and see a mass grave that should be left untouched.

For their sake, I hope the sub has been compromised and the pressure meant it was an instant death.

[Paul1642]

Scary news about the submersible going missing near the titanic site.

Can’t say I have too much sympathy for billionaires who have paid 250k to go and see a mass grave that should be left untouched.

For their sake, I hope the sub has been compromised and the pressure meant it was an instant death.

Not sure being rich makes you any less deserving of sympathy, nor should a trip to see a shipwreck. Should the millions of tourists each year who travel to the killing field, auschwitz, ieper or similar be deserving of a similar opinion?

I agree with you final point though. The chances of the sub being found and recovered with anyone alive is minimal so here’s hoping they didn’t know much about it.

[Aldo]

Not sure being rich makes you any less deserving of sympathy, nor should a trip to see a shipwreck. Should the millions of tourists each year who travel to the killing field, auschwitz, Ieper or similar be deserving of a similar opinion?

I agree with you final point though. The chances of the sub being found and recovered with anyone alive is minimal so here’s hoping they didn’t know much about it.

It will all depend on whether or not the hull has been breached

If the vessel passes it’s safe ‘deep dive depth’ there is every chance it has imploded!

I’m surprised it is not fitted with some sort of tracking device.

[Hibrandenburg]

It will all depend on whether or not the hull has been breached

If the vessel passes it’s safe ‘deep dive depth’ there is every chance it has imploded!

I’m surprised it is not fitted with some sort of tracking device.

I was listening to an engineer who turned down an invitation to go on the vessel. The way he described it made it sound like the thing was built using materials from B&Q.

[Aldo]

I was listening to an engineer who turned down an invitation to go on the vessel. The way he described it made it sound like the thing was built using materials from B&Q.

That’s quite scary considering they were asking top dollar per trip!

[Paul1642]

It will all depend on whether or not the hull has been breached

If the vessel passes it’s safe ‘deep dive depth’ there is every chance it has imploded!

I’m surprised it is not fitted with some sort of tracking device.

BBC were reporting not long after it went missing that that method of recovering a sunken submarine should you be lucky enough to find it would be unlikely to work on such a small fragile vessel as the machines are pretty much designed for large military subs.

[Ozyhibby]

They get a similar amount of sympathy from me as base jumpers who fly into the sides of mountains.


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[Aldo]

BBC were reporting not long after it went missing that that method of recovering a sunken submarine should you be lucky enough to find it would be unlikely to work on such a small fragile vessel as the machines are pretty much designed for large military subs.

The wreck of the titanic is 3800m or 12,500 ft below the surface of water.

You’re average naval submarine will test dive to approximately 1000 ft. It would depend on the age and materials used but a naval Submarine could go to a max of 3000ft.

[grunt]

I’m surprised it is not fitted with some sort of tracking device.
It was but it seems to have malfunctioned.

The company is getting a lot of negative press from items such as this https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1671112320733282304?s=20

[He's here!]

Not sure being rich makes you any less deserving of sympathy, nor should a trip to see a shipwreck. Should the millions of tourists each year who travel to the killing field, auschwitz, ieper or similar be deserving of a similar opinion?

I agree with you final point though. The chances of the sub being found and recovered with anyone alive is minimal so here’s hoping they didn’t know much about it.

The Sky report on those who are in the sub says the British guy Harding is one of the world's leading philanthropists when it comes to helping sustainable growth in developing countries.

[Aldo]

It was but it seems to have malfunctioned.

The company is getting a lot of negative press from items such as this https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1671112320733282304?s=20

If it’s that deep they are done and a good chance it’s imploded

[Pretty Boy]

Very sad for the families of those involved, I'd be surprised if the vessel is ever found.

The reporting seems totally disproportionate though. Over 2000 people died trying to cross the Med last year, 300 died near Greece only days ago and none of them received even a fraction of the coverage or the rescue efforts as this incident. Rolling news, US and UK government ministers commenting, multiple countries and companies committing resources etc etc. I'm not saying it's wrong that such efforts are being made to find these 5 people, it just seems somewhat out of sync. We have a far right politician platformed on multiple mainstream news sources criticising the RNLI and UK coastguard for trying to save human lives in the Channel ffs.

[DH1875]

Very sad for the families of those involved, I'd be surprised if the vessel is ever found.

The reporting seems totally disproportionate though. Over 2000 people died trying to cross the Med last year, 300 died near Greece only days ago and none of them received even a fraction of the coverage or the rescue efforts as this incident. Rolling news, US and UK government ministers commenting, multiple countries and companies committing resources etc etc. I'm not saying it's wrong that such efforts are being made to find these 5 people, it just seems somewhat out of sync. We have a far right politician platformed on multiple mainstream news sources criticising the RNLI and UK coastguard for trying to save human lives in the Channel ffs.

Money talks.

[Ozyhibby]

Very sad for the families of those involved, I'd be surprised if the vessel is ever found.

The reporting seems totally disproportionate though. Over 2000 people died trying to cross the Med last year, 300 died near Greece only days ago and none of them received even a fraction of the coverage or the rescue efforts as this incident. Rolling news, US and UK government ministers commenting, multiple countries and companies committing resources etc etc. I'm not saying it's wrong that such efforts are being made to find these 5 people, it just seems somewhat out of sync. We have a far right politician platformed on multiple mainstream news sources criticising the RNLI and UK coastguard for trying to save human lives in the Channel ffs.

These are rich white (probably) people though.


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[Sergio sledge]

Money talks.

There's an element of that I'm sure.

There's also the sad reality that 500 refugees dying on a boat near Greece has become almost normal and has become "boring" to the general public.

When the war in Ukraine started it was wall to wall coverage, virtually no other news story got air time, now it's generally only getting short segments on the news that I've seen. It's not a ratings winner any more.

This is an unusual occurrence which sounds like it could be a movie plot and the potential to be a big good news story if they actually managed to find them and rescue them so naturally it has been jumped on as a dramatic storyline by all the news agencies.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's an element of that I'm sure.

There's also the sad reality that 500 refugees dying on a boat near Greece has become almost normal and has become "boring" to the general public.

When the war in Ukraine started it was wall to wall coverage, virtually no other news story got air time, now it's generally only getting short segments on the news that I've seen. It's not a ratings winner any more.

This is an unusual occurrence which sounds like it could be a movie plot and the potential to be a big good news story if they actually managed to find them and rescue them so naturally it has been jumped on as a dramatic storyline by all the news agencies.

Indeed. Its exciting and unusual. Its not about colour yawn, maybe money as that is unusual. But why is it a surprise that this crazy story will be news worthy.

Put up a thread about 4 dead immigrants trying to get in a country and let's see the engagement

[grunt]

Put up a thread about 4 dead immigrants trying to get in a country and let's see the engagement
To be fair, that would be newsworthy.

[Lendo]

Astounding lack of empathy for what must be terrifying situation, especially given one the missing people is a 19 year old boy.

[Berwickhibby]

These are rich white (probably) people though.


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2 are Asian (Pakistani) this is nothing to do with colour…more to do with wealth and location….hang around for a year and the movie will be released

[Stairway 2 7]

To be fair, that would be newsworthy.

Not headline, unlike the story in Greece a few days ago I without much talk on here, hundreds suspected dead unfortunately

[grunt]

Not headline, unlike the story in Greece a few days ago I without much talk on here, hundreds suspected dead unfortunately
Read your post again. Not now, when you wake up tomorrow.

[Smartie]

Astounding lack of empathy for what must be terrifying situation, especially given one the missing people is a 19 year old boy.

Good point.

Is the newsworthiness of this not that it is potentially a horrific experience for some people to be going through? Many of us will have the horror / fantasy relative to a submersible but incidents involving them are incredibly rare so when something happens it is very newsworthy indeed?

[He's here!]

There's an element of that I'm sure.

There's also the sad reality that 500 refugees dying on a boat near Greece has become almost normal and has become "boring" to the general public.

When the war in Ukraine started it was wall to wall coverage, virtually no other news story got air time, now it's generally only getting short segments on the news that I've seen. It's not a ratings winner any more.

This is an unusual occurrence which sounds like it could be a movie plot and the potential to be a big good news story if they actually managed to find them and rescue them so naturally it has been jumped on as a dramatic storyline by all the news agencies.

There's no doubting the Greek tragedy (rightly) commanded plenty of coverage, with more to unfold there.

As you say, though, this is a story which captivates worldwide attention because of the ever-absorbing Titanic connection and the 'couldn't make it up' nature of an exploration vessel seemingly meeting a similar fate.

I really can't go along with the 'they deserve what's happened because they're wealthy' narrative.

[Jones28]

It was but it seems to have malfunctioned.

The company is getting a lot of negative press from items such as this https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1671112320733282304?s=20

I saw that part of the story on the news today. They could have used hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars designing and testing a new device, or they can use a £50 controller used by hundreds of millions of people.

I don’t think I give too much of a **** about billionaires being lost on a £200,000 a head expedition to the bottom of the sea. I care far more about the thousands of people dying in the seas off Europe who are fleeing war and persecution.

[Hibrandenburg]

I saw that part of the story on the news today. They could have used hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars designing and testing a new device, or they can use a £50 controller used by hundreds of millions of people.

I don’t think I give too much of a **** about billionaires being lost on a £200,000 a head expedition to the bottom of the sea. I care far more about the thousands of people dying in the seas off Europe who are fleeing war and persecution.

But the titanic is closer to home. Oh wait a minute :hmmm:

[Bostonhibby]

Very sad for the families of those involved, I'd be surprised if the vessel is ever found.

The reporting seems totally disproportionate though. Over 2000 people died trying to cross the Med last year, 300 died near Greece only days ago and none of them received even a fraction of the coverage or the rescue efforts as this incident. Rolling news, US and UK government ministers commenting, multiple countries and companies committing resources etc etc. I'm not saying it's wrong that such efforts are being made to find these 5 people, it just seems somewhat out of sync. We have a far right politician platformed on multiple mainstream news sources criticising the RNLI and UK coastguard for trying to save human lives in the Channel ffs.Thinking much the same thing today and attempting to discuss it with a few local acquaintances.

Let's just say I'm much more at ease with the broader range of debate and understanding on here[emoji106]

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[AgentDaleCooper]

Very sad for the families of those involved, I'd be surprised if the vessel is ever found.

The reporting seems totally disproportionate though. Over 2000 people died trying to cross the Med last year, 300 died near Greece only days ago and none of them received even a fraction of the coverage or the rescue efforts as this incident. Rolling news, US and UK government ministers commenting, multiple countries and companies committing resources etc etc. I'm not saying it's wrong that such efforts are being made to find these 5 people, it just seems somewhat out of sync. We have a far right politician platformed on multiple mainstream news sources criticising the RNLI and UK coastguard for trying to save human lives in the Channel ffs.

exactly :agree:

[Kato]

I hope those guys are found and if not I hope it was quick. Scary as. Saying that it's like playing dangerous sports, "xtreme", always a risk.

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[TrumpIsAPeado]

Interesting that the media puts so much concern into the care and welfare of billionaires who have likely been raking it in at our expense during this economic charade. Meanwhile, people dying on boats desperately trying to escape war and persecution or people going hungry due to this on going economic thievery from billionaires, are merely statistics.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

To be fair, that would be newsworthy.

I thought that was quite amusing. 😁

[Stairway 2 7]

Read your post again. Not now, when you wake up tomorrow.

Typos about immigrants dying are hilarious right enough chief.

Point stands its hypocritical to as why people are interested in this, when on here were clearly more interested than the constant stream of unsuccessful migrants that lose their lives.

It's simply an unusual and macabre death they will have and we'll follow it in real time and that's newsworthy

[BS44]

I was listening to an engineer who turned down an invitation to go on the vessel. The way he described it made it sound like the thing was built using materials from B&Q.

Online BBC News saying a Scottish submarine expert was sacked because he had pointed out possible problems with the carbon hull, and that the viewpoint on Titan is only certified to 1300 metres depth

[marinello59]

Astounding lack of empathy for what must be terrifying situation, especially given one the missing people is a 19 year old boy.

:agree:
Human beings are potentially facing a horrible death here, at that point wealth etc doesn’t matter, they are just the same as the rest of us.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

:agree:
Human beings are potentially facing a horrible death here, at that point wealth etc doesn’t matter, they are just the same as the rest of us.

They are the same as the rest of us. So surely just like the Palestinians who face horrible deaths on a daily basis, the media should simply ignore these people as well?

[Stairway 2 7]

They are the same as the rest of us. So surely just like the Palestinians who face horrible deaths on a daily basis, the media should simply ignore these people as well?

That's a run and jump from what he said, very poor

[archie]

Apparently 'banging sounds' picked up in search area.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

That's a run and jump from what he said, very poor

It's what i'm saying myself. The only poor thing about all of this is that we're supposed to care about the lives of billionaires lost at sea, while other lives are treated as mere statistics. How many lives have likely been ruined by these people because of their own greed? Where's the news about those lives?

[CropleyWasGod]

It's what i'm saying myself. The only poor thing about all of this is that we're supposed to care about the lives of billionaires lost at sea, while other lives are treated as mere statistics. How many lives have likely been ruined by these people because of their own greed? Where's the news about those lives?

How many lives have been improved by their philanthropy?

The answer is, as it is to your question, "we don't know".

We do know that they are human beings.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

How many lives have been improved by their philanthropy?

The answer is, as it is to your question, "we don't know".

We do know that they are human beings.

Yes and I would be all for caring about their well-being if other lives were given equal consideration. It's not that I wish harm on them, I just find it difficult to feel impacted by it knowing that there's far worse sufferings going on in the world that we never get to hear anything about.

[Hibbyradge]

Are folk really saying that we shouldn't care about people in peril because of the amount of money they have?

What's the financial cut off point for compassion? :dunno:

Valuing people because of their worth? Where have I noticed that happening before?

The wealth of the passengers on the submarine has nothing to do with the level of coverage the story. Remember the wall to wall reporting when the kids were stuck in a cave Thailand?

Of course these situations will spark people's interest. We're watching a drama unfold. Their fate isn't known. Will they be rescued in the nick of time or will they suffer a horrible death?

They must be terrified. I feel for them.

[archie]

It's what i'm saying myself. The only poor thing about all of this is that we're supposed to care about the lives of billionaires lost at sea, while other lives are treated as mere statistics. How many lives have likely been ruined by these people because of their own greed? Where's the news about those lives?
It the heartlessness here that I find really depressing. There's a 19yo in the sub. Did he choose his parents?

[J-C]

Did I hear correctly on the breakfast news that this was a prototype and this was it's maiden voyage.

[Ozyhibby]

Are folk really saying that we shouldn't care about people in peril because of the amount of money they have?

What's the financial cut off point for compassion? :dunno:

Valuing people because of their worth? Where have I noticed that happening before?

The wealth of the passengers on the submarine has nothing to do with the level of coverage the story. Remember the wall to wall reporting when the kids were stuck in a cave Thailand?

Of course these situations will spark people's interest. We're watching a drama unfold. Their fate isn't known. Will they be rescued in the nick of time or will they suffer a horrible death?

They must be terrified. I feel for them.

I think people will be looking at the massive search and rescue operation being mounted here and comparing the lesser search and rescue operations mounted elsewhere and wondering what the difference is? I think that’s a fair question.
It’s obviously sad for the families of these people but they were indulging in an extremely risky activity.
Hopefully whatever happened to them was quick and they did not suffer.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Nobody is saying that. What is being said is that there lives are worth no more than anybody else's lives. This is all over the news when there's plenty of other things that could be occupying the news instead. Such as atrocities that are not of the victims own making.

Let's consider the situation they've found themselves in and why this has happened. They made the sub from camping parts and tried to guide it using a Playstation 2 controller. They're billionaires who cheaped out on a life sustaining vessel in the most tight-fisted way possible.

They've prioritised their own greed ahead of their own lives instead of others on this one.

I think your billionairephobia might be at play here :cb

[Hibbyradge]

Nobody is saying that. What is being said is that there lives are worth no more than anybody else's lives. This is all over the news when there's plenty of other things that could be occupying the news instead. Such as atrocities that are not of the victims own making.

Let's consider the situation they've found themselves in and why this has happened. They made the sub from camping parts and tried to guide it using a Playstation 2 controller. They're billionaires who cheaped out on a life sustaining vessel in the most tight-fisted way possible.

They've prioritised their own greed ahead of their own lives instead of others on this one.

Serves the wealthy b*****ds right, eh.

[Keith_M]

I posted a thread on here recently about the death of a Palestinian child, killed by Israeli soldiers that were indiscriminately firing at various targets on the off chance they may be Palestinian terrorists.

One article in the Guardian, no follow up articles into how the Israelis had lied about killing an innocent child then tried to cover it up, no coverage at all on most media sites.

I deleted the thread because not one single person posted a reply.


Deleting it was probably bit stupid, I was having a bad day, but still...

[Pagan Hibernia]

Astounding lack of empathy for what must be terrifying situation, especially given one the missing people is a 19 year old boy.

if he’s 19 then he’s a man capable of making his own decisions rather than a ‘boy’ but yes some of the comments here are unbelievable. I can’t imagine what they must be going through. Well, I can imagine… and it’s horrific.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I posted a thread on here recently about the death of a Palestinian child, killed by Israeli soldiers that were indiscriminately firing at various targets on the off chance they may be Palestinian terrorists.

One article in the Guardian, no follow up articles into how the Israelis had lied about killing an innocent child then tried to cover it up, no coverage at all on most media sites.

I deleted the thread because not one single person posted a reply.


Deleting it was probably bit stupid, I was having a bad day, but still...

I would have replied. But some subjects appear to be off limits or draw heavy levels of criticism, even if they're perfectly valid talking points.

[Hibernian Verse]

This is a bizarre thread. Lots of whataboutery. Every situation has it's own merits. It's not these guys faults that the BBC are covering their imminent death in a 20ft submarine instead of Palestine.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

This is a bizarre thread. Lots of whataboutery. Every situation has it's own merits. It's not these guys faults that the BBC are covering their imminent death in a 20ft submarine instead of Palestine.

My criticism regarding the coverage is very much directed towards those responsible for the coverage and it's not even a case of thinking that they're wrong to cover this, it's the fact that there are other things going on in the world right now which deserve every bit as much coverage, but it's all hush hush on the media front, not just because of this particular situation, but because they never give any coverage to these other things regardless. Why not?

[Keith_M]

I would have replied. But some subjects appear to be off limits or draw heavy levels of criticism, even if they're perfectly valid talking points.


I know, mate, some subjects are a bit awkward (especially daring to criticise Israel) and I'm honestly not criticising everybody, because I know a lot of people genuinely do care.

It's just that some terrible events merit little to no reaction, especially in the media, either because they're so commonplace or maybe just the wrong people are involved (regardless of how far away it may be).

[Hibernian Verse]

My criticism regarding the coverage is very much directed towards those responsible for the coverage and it's not even a case of thinking that they're wrong to cover this, it's the fact that there are other things going on in the world right now which deserve every bit as much coverage, but it's all hush hush on the media front, not just because of this particular situation, but because they never give any coverage to these other things regardless. Why not?

That's seems like a global media issue rather than some explorers who are about to run out of air, one of them with his son who he might have to watch slowly suffocate before he does or vice versa.

Just to add, you said;

"Yes and I would be all for caring about their well-being if other lives were given equal consideration".

You are not giving their lives equal consideration in your own mind from what you've said. You're letting the media dictate who you give consideration to, it's just that your bias is positive, while theirs appears negative.

[Hibernian Verse]

Yes I know, it's truly horrific. But the only reason we know about this is because of the media coverage in the first place. Now consider the things going on that we know nothing about, because the media effectively has a blanket ban on covering it to suit some misplaced agenda.

I hate what is happening to these people, but I also hate that they've effectively done it to themselves and that this is considered bigger news over what is happening to other people through absolutely no fault of their own. It just infuriates me tbh.

By that token, anyone who buys a ticket on a plane that crashes has done it to themselves. I don't see how you can be so flippant about these guys but think everyone deserves equal consideration.

[Hibernian Verse]

Sorry, but that's a false comparison. This is more like building your own plane that clearly isn't designed to fly at high altitudes, then ignoring the warnings of professionals and flying it far too high anyway.

Do they deserve this? No they don't. Nobody deserves this. But they are directly responsible for the situation that they find themselves in, all because they thought they knew better than those who actually had experience in doing this kind of thing.

The guys on it just paid to be on it did they not? Apart from the CEO obviously.

[archie]

Sorry, but that's a false comparison. This is more like building your own plane that clearly isn't designed to fly at high altitudes, then ignoring the warnings of professionals and flying it far too high anyway.

Do they deserve this? No they don't. Nobody deserves this. But they are directly responsible for the situation that they find themselves in, all because they thought they knew better than those who actually had experience in doing this kind of thing.

You really are the king of extrapolation of motives and actions based on the square root of zero.

[Kato]

That's seems like a global media issue rather than some explorers who are about to run out of air, one of them with his son who he might have to watch slowly suffocate before he does or vice versa.

Just to add, you said;

"Yes and I would be all for caring about their well-being if other lives were given equal consideration".

You are not giving their lives equal consideration in your own mind from what you've said. You're letting the media dictate who you give consideration to, it's just that your bias is positive, while theirs appears negative.They aren't explorers. They are tourists looking for a thrill. If they had jumped off a cliff using an experimental bungee rope with dodgy H&S practices they be dead immediately and it would be a case of "play daft games, win a daft prize", there would be no drama or countdown to oxygen running out etc.

As I said above I hope they are found.

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[Kato]

You really are the king of extrapolation of motives and actions based on the square root of zero.What's the motive to see the Titanic? There is no advancement of knowledge going down there, it's just day tripping.

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[archie]

What's the motive to see the Titanic? There is no advancement of knowledge going down there, it's just day tripping.

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And?

[Stairway 2 7]

One of the weirdest threads in a while. Surely any good person will feel sad for these people and sad for all the other tragic deaths out there.

People are just interested in this as it's unusual, like the poor Thai kids in the cave or apollo 13 astronauts. It's unusual and happening in real time. I'm in communist Vietnam where there is more poverty than home and its all over the news, so a big story worldwide I'd guess

[grunt]

This is a modern day horror story, I'm sure we can all use our imagination to put ourselves in the position of those in trouble. I hope that they are found and rescued.

In terms of the media coverage, it's a handy distraction from stories of lying PMs, sky high inflation and the cost of living crisis. Right wing press in particular will be happy that this has pushed the Tory bad news stories off the front pages.

[archie]

This is a modern day horror story, I'm sure we can all use our imagination to put ourselves in the position of those in trouble. I hope that they are found and rescued.

In terms of the media coverage, it's a handy distraction from stories of lying PMs, sky high inflation and the cost of living crisis. Right wing press in particular will be happy that this has pushed the Tory bad news stories off the front pages.
I'm sure they are happy, But it doesn't negate the story

[Kato]

And?So it's a good stab at extrapolation of motive based on what they set out to do.

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[grunt]

I'm sure they are happy, But it doesn't negate the storyThe newspaper owners dictate what stories you see.

[Stairway 2 7]

Sorry, but that's a false comparison. This is more like building your own plane that clearly isn't designed to fly at high altitudes, then ignoring the warnings of professionals and flying it far too high anyway.

Do they deserve this? No they don't. Nobody deserves this. But they are directly responsible for the situation that they find themselves in, all because they thought they knew better than those who actually had experience in doing this kind of thing.

I don't think that is true?

[Hibernian Verse]

My understanding is that they were involved in the making of this contraption. Perhaps not directly, but they set the budget for it and hired the team they wanted. I also think I heard on the news that there were warnings that it couldn't safely reach anywhere near the depths of the Titanic and that people were sacked from the project for raising those concerns. Regardless of whether they had any direct input or not, there were a series of red flags raised leading up to this which were seemingly ignored.

So you think you heard something so have repeatedly stated it as fact on this thread.

What you heard was that a guy raised concerns in 2018, 5 years worth of development ago.

[Hibernian Verse]

I don't think that is true?

It's not

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I don't think that is true?


So you think you heard something so have repeatedly stated it as fact on this thread.

What you heard was that a guy raised concerns in 2018, 5 years worth of development ago.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. I've clearly picked things up wrong (I was listening to a multitude of different sources at the same time). I apologize for my misunderstanding of the situation.

In that case the liability falls squarely at the feet of OceanGate and not the people who hired the submarine for the expedition.

[Betty Boop]

Jeez the reverse snobbery on this thread is unbelievable.

[Keith_M]

This is a modern day horror story, I'm sure we can all use our imagination to put ourselves in the position of those in trouble. I hope that they are found and rescued.

In terms of the media coverage, it's a handy distraction from stories of lying PMs, sky high inflation and the cost of living crisis. Right wing press in particular will be happy that this has pushed the Tory bad news stories off the front pages.


Agree with all of that.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The irony of dying in a maritime tragedy whilst visiting the site of a maritime tragedy. Has it been established what happened?

[Hibrandenburg]

Are folk really saying that we shouldn't care about people in peril because of the amount of money they have.

I don't think anyone is.

What I do think is happening is that some people are interpretating peoples lack of emotional response on here to being somehow cold and heartless.

[grunt]

OceanGate, the company that owns the missing submersible, fired an employee a few years ago after he filed safety complaints against them. The employee specifically said the sub was not capable of descending to such extreme depths before he was fired.

https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate

[neil7908]

Fair enough. I stand corrected. I've clearly picked things up wrong (I was listening to a multitude of different sources at the same time). I apologize for my misunderstanding of the situation.

In that case the liability falls squarely at the feet of OceanGate and not the people who hired the submarine for the expedition.

I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

The below article lays out a number of serious issues with this vessel and journey:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/titanic-submersible-documents-reveal-multiple-concerns-raised-over-safety-of-vessel

This is no way means what is happening to those on board isn't a horrendous tragedy. But they have wilfully undertaken an enormously dangerous activity, and I can't see any greater benefit to mankind here, unlike say astronauts who put themselves in huge danger for the advancement of human knowledge. .

I'll repeat, no one should have to go through this but they have all gone into it knowing it was a very real possibility.

You can feel devastated for those involved, whilst also questioning the wider reaction and noting the above points without being a monster.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

The irony of dying in a maritime tragedy whilst visiting the site of a maritime tragedy. Has it been established what happened?

It hasn't been confirmed exactly what the issue is yet. But it's most likely that the submarine went down to a depth that it was never designed or certified to go down to. It has been said that because of the experimental design of the submarine, it was only certified to go down to a depth of 1,300 meters. Which is only about a 3rd of the depth of the Titanic ruin site which is approximately 3,800 meters below the ocean surface level. It may be that due to the sheer water pressure at that depth, the Submersible simply lacks the power required to make it's way back up to the surface.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

You can feel devastated for those involved, whilst also questioning the wider reaction and noting the above points without being a monster.

Thanks. Admittedly my understanding of the overall situation was somewhat off though, so only right that I hold my hand up to that. But you are correct, there were certainly warnings raised well before this expedition took place. Whether the people on board were made aware of these warnings or not, I'm not so sure.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

The below article lays out a number of serious issues with this vessel and journey:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/titanic-submersible-documents-reveal-multiple-concerns-raised-over-safety-of-vessel

This is no way means what is happening to those on board isn't a horrendous tragedy. But they have wilfully undertaken an enormously dangerous activity, and I can't see any greater benefit to mankind here, unlike say astronauts who put themselves in huge danger for the advancement of human knowledge. .

I'll repeat, no one should have to go through this but they have all gone into it knowing it was a very real possibility.

You can feel devastated for those involved, whilst also questioning the wider reaction and noting the above points without being a monster.

:agree:

I've never really thought of being able to feel 2 or more things at once as a great skill but maybe it is after all.

I've always been a bit uncomfortable with what I suppose you could call extreme expeditions or extreme tourism. Obviously all travel carries an element of risk but getting on a plane that is subject to industry standards and operational licensing is somewhat different from poking about on a submarine at depths way beyond what experienced naval personnel will built by a man who had this to say not so long ago: 'Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation'. It's not a new phenomenon, people with no expertise and minimal experience have paid to be almost literally dragged up Everest for decades, the 1996 disaster is an example of how that can go spectacularly wrong. Same with space tourism, a disaster in that sphere is inevitable at some point. A lot of it just seems to show a real disregard and lack of respect for nature and that will always have consequences. It's incomparable to experienced mountaineers or divers who have honed their craft and developed their skills over many years.

It is a tragedy and the wealth of those involved is irrelevant but I'm not sure that means we can't have a (respectful) discussion around the other issues surrounding the whole situation and reaction to it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It hasn't been confirmed exactly what the issue is yet. But it's most likely that the submarine went down to a depth that it was never designed or certified to go down to. It has been said that because of the experimental design of the submarine, it was only certified to go down to a depth of 1,300 meters. Which is only about a 3rd of the depth of the Titanic ruin site which is approximately 3,800 meters below the ocean surface level. It may be that due to the sheer water pressure at that depth, the Submersible simply lacks the power required to make it's way back up to the surface.

Thanks for that. :aok:

[AugustaHibs]

Very morbid, but is there a worse way to die than slowly running out of oxygen in a tin can at 12000 feet underwater knowing there’s no saving you?

[overdrive]

My wife and I happened to get hooked on a documentary that was on the BBC News Channel in the mornings when we were in Thailand over Christmas and New Year about this sub.

You can watch it here (you should be able to get the other parts from that page as well) :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001d2ml

I'd recommend it

[Hibernia&Alba]

Very morbid, but is there a worse way to die than slowly running out of oxygen in a tin can at 12000 feet underwater knowing there’s no saving you?

It should at least be painless; you just go to sleep. An agonising death, like burning alive, would have to be worse.

[Lee Marvin]

It should at least be painless; you just go to sleep. An agonising death, like burning alive, would have to be worse.

I doubt suffocating to death is painless, tbh. Not to mention the emotional pain for the previous 72 hours.

It doesn't get a huge deal worse than this for my money

[WhileTheChief..]

I posted a thread on here recently about the death of a Palestinian child, killed by Israeli soldiers that were indiscriminately firing at various targets on the off chance they may be Palestinian terrorists.

One article in the Guardian, no follow up articles into how the Israelis had lied about killing an innocent child then tried to cover it up, no coverage at all on most media sites.

I deleted the thread because not one single person posted a reply.


Deleting it was probably bit stupid, I was having a bad day, but still...

Similar to the thread you posted about the killings in Uganda last week.

Barely discussed.

Apparently there’s obvious reasons why. I don’t know what they are though!

[WhileTheChief..]

I doubt suffocating to death is painless, tbh. Not to mention the emotional pain for the previous 72 hours.

It doesn't get a huge deal worse than this for my money

A doctor specialty type on the news said they would pass out way before they died.

Apparently there would be no gasping for breath or sensation like drowning.

Obviously not good news, but ‘better’ under the circumstances.

[Hibernian Verse]

I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

The below article lays out a number of serious issues with this vessel and journey:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/titanic-submersible-documents-reveal-multiple-concerns-raised-over-safety-of-vessel

This is no way means what is happening to those on board isn't a horrendous tragedy. But they have wilfully undertaken an enormously dangerous activity, and I can't see any greater benefit to mankind here, unlike say astronauts who put themselves in huge danger for the advancement of human knowledge. .

I'll repeat, no one should have to go through this but they have all gone into it knowing it was a very real possibility.

You can feel devastated for those involved, whilst also questioning the wider reaction and noting the above points without being a monster.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNSI7HG319k

[Hibernia&Alba]

A doctor specialty type on the news said they would pass out way before they died.

Apparently there would be no gasping for breath or sensation like drowning.

Obviously not good news, but ‘better’ under the circumstances.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I imagine drowning would be much worse.

[grunt]

What a gruesome discussion.

[Stairway 2 7]

A doctor specialty type on the news said they would pass out way before they died.

Apparently there would be no gasping for breath or sensation like drowning.

Obviously not good news, but ‘better’ under the circumstances.

Is that the end point. Or what about the point they know they are going to die if they aren't saved within 50 hours or whatever. It's a slow painful death. I personally think only nuthobs wouldn't feel sympathy

[Hibernia&Alba]

Is that the end point. Or what about the point they know they are going to die if they aren't saved within 50 hours or whatever. It's a slow painful death. I personally think only nuthobs wouldn't feel sympathy

If they were trapped, knowing they would die, the psychological trauma would be horrific. If they had many hours beforehand, I would guess that the initial panic of realising their likely fate would subside over time, then it's a matter of trying to keep each other calm. A nightmare situation. It would have been a much kinder end for the vessel to have imploded under the water pressure. Death would be instant.

[Ozyhibby]

From what I’ve read, the sub has a number of ways to return to the surface even with a total loss of power. The only way it couldn’t is if it is trapped on something (fishing net etc) or if it totally collapsed. I just don’t see a scenario where this sub is in one piece with people still alive inside? What would cause a loss of power, failure of the independent power source for the transponder and all the mechanical ways in which to bring this sub to the surface?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

Is that the end point. Or what about the point they know they are going to die if they aren't saved within 50 hours or whatever. It's a slow painful death. I personally think only nuthobs wouldn't feel sympathy

Yeah, I’m not downplaying the horrific nature of the situation at all, was just addressing that one point.

[HibeeSince85]

They've been down there now three days is it? It's pitch black I'm guessing down there, probably really cold, was there emergency water on board? Probably no food, little sleep if any. If they're alive you'd think they will already be in a bad way with no end to the nightmare. Grim situation to be in, probably one of my worst nightmares.

[Sylar]

An utterly horrific way to go - I can't think of a worse way personally.

Don't reckon they'll find them now - even with the recent 'noises'.

[Hibernian Verse]

Supposedly it’s 4 degrees in the sub at those depths when it’s working normally. Will be even colder. I’d hoped they’d find them today, pretty sure it’s over for them as they don’t even know how to get them to the surface yet.

[Pagan Hibernia]

They've been down there now three days is it? It's pitch black I'm guessing down there, probably really cold, was there emergency water on board? Probably no food, little sleep if any. If they're alive you'd think they will already be in a bad way with no end to the nightmare. Grim situation to be in, probably one of my worst nightmares.

it really doesn’t get much worse than what you’ve described. A truly desperate end for them. Still hoping there might be a miracle.

[stu in nottingham]

I feel there is still hope. BBC reports indicate that further noises have been heard. Perhaps even more significantly they have been heard at 30-minute intervals which according to an Australian submarine expert is 'highly unlikely to be anything other than human-related'. There is apparently a protocol for alerting rescuers in that every hour and half-hour trapped submariners make as much noise as possible.

A system of possible salvage of the submersible has now been spoken of. The US Navy apparently has a deep ocean salvage system which can send a line down to a depth of 20,000ft with the Titanic wreckage estimated depth at 12,500ft. The system has been used successfuly to salvage small aeroplanes small boats

Others talk of the possible conservation of oxygen by breathing techniques which could take the crew beyond the precious hours supply estimated.

There is so much to do and the odds may be against a successful rescue but I still feel there is some genuine hope for the crew. God bless them.

[LunasBoots]

I doubt suffocating to death is painless, tbh. Not to mention the emotional pain for the previous 72 hours.

It doesn't get a huge deal worse than this for my money

Carbon monoxide would get them pretty quick so I'd imagine it would be pretty painless at that point as they'd be unconscious.

[Allant1981]

Some of the responses on here are quite disgusting, regardless of their wealth they are still human beings with families, hope these people are found but looking unlikely

[Hibernia&Alba]

Some of the responses on here are quite disgusting, regardless of their wealth they are still human beings with families, hope these people are found but looking unlikely

That should go without saying. Their personal circumstances are irrelevant to their situation; one in which all the money in the world can't help them. It's a terrible fate.

[Sylar]

I feel there's two strands of discussion throughout this thread - I don't think people are being 'heartless' or 'disgusting' around the fate of these particular individuals.

There IS a valid conversation to be had about the extent of resources, time and effort that's being put into finding them (and the media coverage it's all receiving) compared to other ocean-based tragedies. There was a boat sank yesterday making its way from West Africa to the Canaries - people fleeing war, destitution and poverty in search of a better life - 35 dead and it didn't even get onto the BBC front page. Because the Government-supporting rhetoric from the BBC (and other media outets) is that these people don't matter worth a **** - but these extremely privileged individuals who signed up voluntarily for an extremely risky venture on an un-certified vessel are receiving wall to wall coverage, with navy, air force, scientific organisations, charity organisations all scrambling to help them.

Their wealth doesn't mean they're not deserving of sympathy, but equally, it shouldn't give them some kind of priority status when something goes wrong.

[Stairway 2 7]

More effort resources and media coverage went to the boys in the Thai cave, so it isn't about wealth as they were poor. Its just like the cave an unusual situation playing out in real time. There is zero link to other ocean tragedies that happen daily

[Pretty Boy]

More effort resources and media coverage went to the boys in the Thai cave, so it isn't about wealth as they were poor. Its just like the cave an unusual situation playing out in real time. There is zero link to other ocean tragedies that happen daily

Surely there is a clear link in that the response to one ocean tragedy is directly comparable to the response to another?

Tbh I get why governments, the military and private companies are all over this one. It's high profile and they can bask in the glory of a successful rescue and lose nothing if the rescue is unsuccessful. There just isn't same upside when it comes to rescuing a 'swarm of illegals' who have a hateful rhetoric aimed at them even among mainstream politicians and press.

[lapsedhibee]

More effort resources and media coverage went to the boys in the Thai cave, so it isn't about wealth as they were poor. Its just like the cave an unusual situation playing out in real time. There is zero link to other ocean tragedies that happen daily

Sure 'man bites dog' is more 'newsworthy' than 'dog bites man' but if dogs are biting men every day and a lot are dying, like in the migrant boats situation, there's a decent case for the more common thing to be higher up the agenda than the one-off.incident. And the boat crossings happen in real time too, not just the Titan salvage op.

[Scouse Hibee]

Having read about the size, design and very limited viewing from this submersible, I struggle to comprehend how anyone would actually want to go in it below the ocean. I fear they may never be recovered.

[Sylar]

More effort resources and media coverage went to the boys in the Thai cave, so it isn't about wealth as they were poor. Its just like the cave an unusual situation playing out in real time. There is zero link to other ocean tragedies that happen daily

I'd love a source for that if you've got one? I'm not attempting to be arsey with that ask but I'd find it very surprising given how the BBC has been handling the Titan situation the last 3 or 4 days. A full running live commentary section, an entire section of related videos, articles being hosted on their home page...I genuinely don't remember anywhere near that with the Thai Cave situation, so I'd love to know where you've gotten that from and read it.

Of course there's a link to other ocean tragedies. I don't feel the need to add to what PB or lapsed have already said in response to that though.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I feel there's two strands of discussion throughout this thread - I don't think people are being 'heartless' or 'disgusting' around the fate of these particular individuals.

There IS a valid conversation to be had about the extent of resources, time and effort that's being put into finding them (and the media coverage it's all receiving) compared to other ocean-based tragedies. There was a boat sank yesterday making its way from West Africa to the Canaries - people fleeing war, destitution and poverty in search of a better life - 35 dead and it didn't even get onto the BBC front page. Because the Government-supporting rhetoric from the BBC (and other media outets) is that these people don't matter worth a **** - but these extremely privileged individuals who signed up voluntarily for an extremely risky venture on an un-certified vessel are receiving wall to wall coverage, with navy, air force, scientific organisations, charity organisations all scrambling to help them.

Their wealth doesn't mean they're not deserving of sympathy, but equally, it shouldn't give them some kind of priority status when something goes wrong.

:top marks

Very good post. Taking the submersible situation in isolation, it's a human tragedy and an unusual story. Media coverage of the event to such an extent is an interesting debate about the biases and inclinations of our media. It's a 'Hollywood' type story, much more glamorous than refugees drowning in far greater numbers.

[Jones28]

The American Coastguard have said the oxygen has now run out.

[Hibbyradge]

If submarines were disappearing every day, there wouldn't be as much cover as this tragedy is getting.

It's like the mass shootings that happen in the US. We only hear about a small percentage of them and even then, the coverage is limited.

That doesn't mean the deaths are any less tragic, it's just because it's such a regular occurrence that we've become immune to them, if that's the right expression.

Monday was the 189th day of 2023. Using your knowledge of news reporting on the issue, guess how many mass shootings there had been by then.

Then look it up.

Edit: I'm not trying to post clickbait. I just think doing it that way illustrates the point better.

[Sylar]

Turns out that one of those trapped on board this thing is an undergraduate student in my faculty at Strathclyde. I haven't taught him, hadn't encountered him at all, but it certainly brings it a bit closer to home than I thought it ever would be.

[Sylar]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65984821

Thought I'd include a link to the Strathclyde side of the story.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'd love a source for that if you've got one? I'm not attempting to be arsey with that ask but I'd find it very surprising given how the BBC has been handling the Titan situation the last 3 or 4 days. A full running live commentary section, an entire section of related videos, articles being hosted on their home page...I genuinely don't remember anywhere near that with the Thai Cave situation, so I'd love to know where you've gotten that from and read it.

Of course there's a link to other ocean tragedies. I don't feel the need to add to what PB or lapsed have already said in response to that though.

I haven't got a link to say media coverage is bigger, but my opinion is it was much bigger. Remember Elon Musk saying he wanted to send a submersible and then calling the brave diver apedo. Maybe I'm pulled that way because everything that happened post rescue, visiting old Trafford, Oscar winning documentary then Ron Howard movie the year after ( both great)

[Sylar]

I haven't got a link to say media coverage is bigger, but my opinion is it was much bigger. Remember Elon Musk saying he wanted to send a submersible and then calling the brave diver apedo. Maybe I'm pulled that way because everything that happened post rescue, visiting old Trafford, Oscar winning documentary then Ron Howard movie the year after ( both great)

I remember the fall out quite clearly with Musk etc, but not so much the actual rescue at the time. Don't get me wrong, I do remember the rescue taking place etc, but I can't recall that same magnitude of coverage. It was a while ago though and perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.

[overdrive]

Having read about the size, design and very limited viewing from this submersible, I struggle to comprehend how anyone would actually want to go in it below the ocean. I fear they may never be recovered.

Quite. Especially combined with the contents of the waiver they are made to sign.

[overdrive]

I guess (sadly) we'll never know but I wonder how the other 4 reacted to the CEO when he made them aware they were up the brown creek, assuming it wasn't an instant death scenario.

[cabbageandribs1875]

sad

BREAKINGDebris field found - US Coast Guard


A debris field has been discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic, the US Coast Guard has just announced.
Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information.
We will bring you more details shortly.


A statement from the Coast Guard says the Horizon Arctic’s ROV (remotely operated vehicle) found debris on the sea floor near the Titanic wreck

[Trinity Hibee]

An expert on sky news in the studio has just had a text from someone on one of the rescue ships saying it’s the debri of the sub. Not unexpected but weird seeing the guy get the text live on tv and reading it out

[Hibbyradge]

I remember the fall out quite clearly with Musk etc, but not so much the actual rescue at the time. Don't get me wrong, I do remember the rescue taking place etc, but I can't recall that same magnitude of coverage. It was a while ago though and perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.

There was a huge amount of coverage. We even had live TV from the rescue area, iirc.

The time difference may have caused some people to miss the live reporting, but the papers and news programmes went big on it.

[500miles]

sad

BREAKINGDebris field found - US Coast Guard


A debris field has been discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic, the US Coast Guard has just announced.
Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information.
We will bring you more details shortly.


A statement from the Coast Guard says the Horizon Arctic’s ROV (remotely operated vehicle) found debris on the sea floor near the Titanic wreck

If they found debris then they died instantly. The pressure that far down will turn you to soup, never mind crush you.

[lapsedhibee]

Twitter:



Entertainment · Trending
Imploded
19.4K Tweets

[lapsedhibee]

Changed now:



Trending in United Kingdom
Imploded
23.2K Tweets

[Hibbyradge]

Changed now:



Trending in United Kingdom
Imploded
23.2K Tweets

?

[Sylar]

?

It was initially labelled as 'Entertainment'.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230622/2cfba679fd72c66020bb5de95a94d2f4.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pagan Hibernia]

I suppose this outcome is much preferable to the alternative

[Billy Whizz]

For someone late to reading this. Was this the 1st time this vehicle had gone down to view the Titanic

[overdrive]

For someone late to reading this. Was this the 1st time this vehicle had gone down to view the Titanic

No. I watched a documentary about it on the BBC at the start of the year.

[Ozyhibby]

For someone late to reading this. Was this the 1st time this vehicle had gone down to view the Titanic

25th trip I think I read.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/1671954324493139980?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

All dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

I suppose this outcome is much preferable to the alternative

Yes I'd imagine for their families there can at least be a modicum of solace that they met their end pretty much instantly rather than over a horrendous few days.

[Billy Whizz]

Thanks for the replies. Just put Sky news on, and one of the enquiries is the number of times this vehicle has gone to these depths before. Think someone said 25. Can it withstand that amount of dives
Anyone know when the last one was

[Sylar]

Thanks for the replies. Just put Sky news on, and one of the enquiries is the number of times this vehicle has gone to these depths before. Think someone said 25. Can it withstand that amount of dives
Anyone know when the last one was

By all accounts, it was cheaply made, uncertified, and operating at renowned challenging depths that would challenge the most robust vehicles.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

For someone late to reading this. Was this the 1st time this vehicle had gone down to view the Titanic

It wasn't. But those vessels were never fit to go down to those depths in the first place. Previous expeditions must have taken their toll and the owner mustn't have provided adequate maintenance checks. Both the owner and OceanGate have to be held to account for this very avoidable disaster.

[grunt]

It wasn't. But those vessels were never fit to go down to those depths in the first place. Previous expeditions must have taken their toll and the owner mustn't have provided adequate maintenance checks. Both the owner and OceanGate have to be held to account for this very avoidable disaster.
Well the CEO has certainly paid the ultimate price.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Well the CEO has certainly paid the ultimate price.

He has indeed. He won't have to worry about those pesky safety regulations anymore.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oceangate-titanic-submarine-stockton-rush-safety-b2361544.html

Unfortunately the other 4 passengers are also paying the price through no fault of their own.

[Hibernian Verse]

He has indeed. He won't have to worry about those pesky safety regulations anymore.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/oceangate-titanic-submarine-stockton-rush-safety-b2361544.html

Unfortunately the other 4 passengers are also paying the price through no fault of their own.

Yesterday you posted that they’d effectively done it to themselves. You really do like to change angle.

Anyway, a sad outcome but what was expected and at least they didn’t suffer.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Yesterday you posted that they’d effectively done it to themselves. You really do like to change angle.

I got some information mixed up, have admitted to it and have apologized for it. I would say that the ability to change angles would be pretty useful in this day and age where people refuse to budge on things, even when corrected. I was ultimately corrected by people who had a better understanding of it than I did.

[Hibernian Verse]

I got some information mixed up, have admitted to it and have apologized for it. I would say that the ability to change angles would be pretty useful in this day and age where people refuse to budge on things, even when corrected. I was ultimately corrected by people who had a better understanding of it than I did.

Fair play.

[Hibrandenburg]

More effort resources and media coverage went to the boys in the Thai cave, so it isn't about wealth as they were poor. Its just like the cave an unusual situation playing out in real time. There is zero link to other ocean tragedies that happen daily

Can't get my head round that considering all the hardware that is swimming, flying and submerging around that area at the moment.

[marinello59]

My heart goes out to the families of all those lost. RIP.

I remember an old shipmate of mine telling me it didn’t matter how many precautions we took, the sea would still find a hundred different ways to kill you. He wasn’t wrong.

[lapsedhibee]

I remember an old shipmate of mine telling me it didn’t matter how many precautions we took, the sea would still find a hundred different ways to kill you. He wasn’t wrong.

Drowning, dashed against the rocks, caught up in a propeller, submersible imploding. I suppose asphyxiation, like on the Kursk, though that's more of a mechanical failure killing you than the sea. Could you ask what are the other 95 ways? :dunno:

[Pagan Hibernia]

My heart goes out to the families of all those lost. RIP.

I remember an old shipmate of mine telling me it didn’t matter how many precautions we took, the sea would still find a hundred different ways to kill you. He wasn’t wrong.

the ocean is a truly terrifying thing. So vast, dark and mysterious. And incredibly powerful.

I don’t even like flying over the Atlantic. I wouldn’t go down there in one of those contraptions if they paid me a hundred million quid. And I would have said the same thing before this tragedy.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Drowning, dashed against the rocks, caught up in a propeller, submersible imploding. I suppose asphyxiation, like on the Kursk, though that's more of a mechanical failure killing you than the sea. Could you ask what are the other 95 ways? :dunno:

Sharks, hypothermia, crashing into it from a great height… there’s 3 more anyway

[lapsedhibee]

Sharks, hypothermia, crashing into it from a great height… there’s 3 more anyway

That's the fall killing you. Haven't you seen Butch Cassidy? :wink:

[SaulGoodman]

It’s no surprise it had an implosion.

Constant pressure changes will cause fatigue over time. Aircraft go through very, very intense checks to detect any hairline fractures in the airframe.

I doubt the PlayStation controller equipped sardine can went through many checks after each trip.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

There's certainly plenty of things in the sea that can kill a person. However, when you're in a submarine that's actually designed to go down to those depths, none of them are going to kill you, unless there is a serious malfunction of some kind. The sub that was used here was never certified to go down to depths anywhere near that low. So it could be argued that it was always going to succumb to the pressure eventually and should never have been used for these expeditions.

[cabbageandribs1875]

If they found debris then they died instantly. The pressure that far down will turn you to soup, never mind crush you.


at least they didn't suffer for a few days first

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

News this morning seems to suggest that there were indications at the time communication was lost, that something really serious had happened.

[Bristolhibby]

Drowning, dashed against the rocks, caught up in a propeller, submersible imploding. I suppose asphyxiation, like on the Kursk, though that's more of a mechanical failure killing you than the sea. Could you ask what are the other 95 ways? :dunno:

My Dad was a sailor. I remember him telling me that more sailors drowned on their own vomit after a night out than actually drowned at sea.

Never quite got to the bottom of whether that is truth or a salty sea story.

Pretty grim.

Anyway, RIP to those who have perished. Small mercy it was quick and painless.

Just read that the young lad was nervous, but went anyway as his Dad was obsessed with the Titanic and they went as a Fathers Day bonding trip.

Sad.

J

[Hibbyradge]

Drowning, dashed against the rocks, caught up in a propeller, submersible imploding. I suppose asphyxiation, like on the Kursk, though that's more of a mechanical failure killing you than the sea. Could you ask what are the other 95 ways? :dunno:

Sharks, crocodiles, jelly fish, the things that killed Steve Irwin.

[lapsedhibee]

Sharks, crocodiles, jelly fish, the things that killed Steve Irwin.

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.

[grunt]

I have a lot of time for this man

https://twitter.com/Tzipshmil/status/1672044266967662595?s=20

[lapsedhibee]

My Dad was a sailor. I remember him telling me that more sailors drowned on their own vomit after a night out than actually drowned at sea.

Never quite got to the bottom of whether that is truth or a salty sea story.

Was it perhaps part of a wider strategy by your dad to warn you off the amber nectar? :dunno:

[Sergio sledge]

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.

Dehydration?

[DH1875]

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.

Saltwater crocodile? They admittedly don't live in the ocean as need to be near land but they can swim in it.

[Bostonhibby]

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.How many life threatening viruses, chemicals and bacteria are our water companies, along with others, dumping into the seas?

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[lapsedhibee]

Dehydration?
Ok 'marooned' in one way or another.


Saltwater crocodile? They admittedly don't live in the ocean as need to be near land but they can swim in it.
Ok. Saltwater crocodiles who've lost their way, sharks, things that have killed Steve Irwin at one time or another, being swallowed by a whale = 'sea monsters'


How many life threatening viruses, chemicals and bacteria are our water companies, along with others, dumping into the seas?

I don't know but even if you can name them all that's only counting as one thing, 'invisible sea monsters'.

Still eighty-odd to go.

[Bostonhibby]

Ok 'marooned' in one way or another.


Ok. Saltwater crocodiles who've lost their way, sharks, things that have killed Steve Irwin at one time or another, being swallowed by a whale = 'sea monsters'


I don't know but even if you can name them all that's only counting as one thing, 'invisible sea monsters'.

Still eighty-odd to go.[emoji106] fair point.

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[Since90+2]

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.

I think you're taking this a bit literally.

[Smartie]

Ok 'marooned' in one way or another.


Ok. Saltwater crocodiles who've lost their way, sharks, things that have killed Steve Irwin at one time or another, being swallowed by a whale = 'sea monsters'


I don't know but even if you can name them all that's only counting as one thing, 'invisible sea monsters'.

Still eighty-odd to go.

I admire the truly pedantic way you're not letting this go.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ok 'marooned' in one way or another.


Ok. Saltwater crocodiles who've lost their way, sharks, things that have killed Steve Irwin at one time or another, being swallowed by a whale = 'sea monsters'


I don't know but even if you can name them all that's only counting as one thing, 'invisible sea monsters'.

Still eighty-odd to go.

Seduced by any one of:-

Sirens

Mermaids

Selkies

[grunt]

Seduced by ... Sirens
Manchester Art Gallery

https://d3d00swyhr67nd.cloudfront.net/w1200h1200/collection/GMIII/MCAG/GMIII_MCAG_1882_3-001.jpg

[lapsedhibee]

I think you're taking this a bit literally.


I admire the truly pedantic way you're not letting this go.

Old Sailors, like Old Etonians, should be held to account if they make exaggerated claims. Otherwise we're at the thin end of a slippery slope to a post-truth society. :agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.

The most dangerous crocodiles are seawater crocs. They're certainly the biggest.

[HH81]

The most dangerous crocodiles are seawater crocs. They're certainly the biggest.

Yep salties are defo the most aggressive.

You don't want to be anywhere near them.

[lapsedhibee]

Yep salties are defo the most aggressive.

You don't want to be anywhere near them.

It's why Newhaven fishwives used to carry their husbands out to the boats, so the menfolk didn't get bitten. :agree:

26911

[Callum_62]

Not to be too graphic

Catastrophic Implosion of a submersible explained:

When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second.

The time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond.

A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense→reason→act) is at best 150 milliseconds.

The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors.

When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine.

The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye.

Yikes.

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[Scouse Hibee]

Not to be too graphic

Catastrophic Implosion of a submersible explained:

When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second.

The time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond.

A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense→reason→act) is at best 150 milliseconds.

The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors.

When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine.

The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye.

Yikes.

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That’s pretty horrific but at least they would have known nothing about it.

[McSwanky]

I have a lot of time for this man

https://twitter.com/Tzipshmil/status/1672044266967662595?s=20

The point seems pretty inarguable, doesn't it? I would hope the vast majority of people would agree.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Not to be too graphic

Catastrophic Implosion of a submersible explained:

When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second.

The time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond.

A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense→reason→act) is at best 150 milliseconds.

The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors.

When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine.

The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye.

Yikes.

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At least they didn't know anything about it, which has to be better than slowly running out of oxygen.

What about permission for that death-trap to be near the titanic, and did it have safety certificates? It sounds like it was a tragedy waiting to happen, completely unsuitable to be down there.

[s.a.m]

Not to be too graphic

Catastrophic Implosion of a submersible explained:

When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second.

The time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond.

A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense→reason→act) is at best 150 milliseconds.

The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors.

When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine.

The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye.

Yikes.

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That sounds terrifying, but mercifully and thankfully quick.




[Also ... whirlpools...]
[And the Bermuda Triangle, if we're getting into mythical options.]

[lapsedhibee]

[Also ... whirlpools...]
That's just drowning again


[And the Bermuda Triangle.]
#14 :aok:

[danhibees1875]

That's just drowning again


#14 :aok:

Have we had killed by pirates?

Swalled by a Whale?

[CropleyWasGod]

Have we had killed by pirates?

Swalled by a Whale?

Becalming.

Scurvy.

Walking the plank and hitting the plank on the way down, sustaining a fatal head wound.

[stu in nottingham]

Such a very sad outcome, especially the young man of 19 years who had most of his life ahead of him.

Without trivialising the subject and with respects to the gentleman on the thread who is an ex-mariner and indeed my own father who was a Merchant Seaman, there are so very many ways. A quick think and a browse gave me the below. I think the seafarers make a good point.

My dad would have added German torpedos, which he somehow miraculously managed to survive.

Electrocution - electricity passes through salt water way quicker than fresh water. Particularly dangerous in the presence of lightning bolts

Capsizing

Sand bars

Icebergs (ahem)

Being hit by other boats

The bends (decompression sickness)

Getting lost at sea

Dehydration

Diving accidents (powerful currents/stuck in a cave etc.)

There are numerous boats every year that explode

Trawler accident

Tsunamis

Toxic algae

Riptides

Debris in the sea

Sand holes

Injuries from coral

Polluted water

Failure of equipment

Starvation

[Hibbyradge]

Think crocodiles are fresh water, so you're not getting that one. Even including the death by vomit after a night out, I don't think we're past ten yet, so still 90 or so to go.

Crocodylus porosus,

We'll get there.

[Hibbyradge]

Having a really scary daydream on a lilo and suffering a massive coronary.

The box jellyfish is an absolute c***.

Those things that looks like rocks but kill you if you stand on them.

Being eaten by the lion in the Life of Pi. Or was it a tiger? (It was.)

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The background to this sorry story seems to be unravelling quickly and publicly.

[Hibby70]

Talking about jellyfish reminds me of a time I heard a lad shout to his dad he'd been stung by a jellyfish on a beach in Majorca.

His dad responded by saying "just pit a doakin leaf oan it".

Have a guess what football top the dad was wearing.

[Bostonhibby]

I have a lot of time for this man

https://twitter.com/Tzipshmil/status/1672044266967662595?s=20I've been around a long time and whilst he doesn't tick all my socialist boxes he is the best human being ever to take up politics in my life time.

Class is permanent

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[Just Alf]

Sorry.......



https://twitter.com/JroRob/status/1672564190106509312?t=ZnZVULXhPUgPJk0VH8rYzQ&s=19

[grunt]

This man was in charge of the UK response to Covid. And this is his take on the submersible ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzZodJnWIAElrMp?format=jpg&name=medium

[Just Alf]

This man was in charge of the UK response to Covid. And this is his take on the submersible ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzZodJnWIAElrMp?format=jpg&name=mediumFfs what new frontier does he think they were achieving?

[cabbageandribs1875]

This man was in charge of the UK response to Covid. And this is his take on the submersible ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzZodJnWIAElrMp?format=jpg&name=medium


and of course because it was the Daily Mail he had to make it political with the lefties, though the majority of comments i read last night were rather negative towards Him/IT, with just a few comments saying it was the bestest Article they had ever read in the history of Articles almost on par with Articles by the Donald

[Kato]

Ffs what new frontier does he think they were achieving?


He uses ChatGPT to write this I thought.

Just waffle from someone removed from reality.

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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Talking about jellyfish reminds me of a time I heard a lad shout to his dad he'd been stung by a jellyfish on a beach in Majorca.

His dad responded by saying "just pit a doakin leaf oan it".

Have a guess what football top the dad was wearing.

Celtic, definitely


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[Just Alf]

He uses ChatGPT to write this I thought.

Just waffle from someone removed from reality.

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkActually, now that you mention it..... :agree:

[TrumpIsAPeado]

This man was in charge of the UK response to Covid. And this is his take on the submersible ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzZodJnWIAElrMp?format=jpg&name=medium

Another "titanic success"?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Lefties....?? From where Johnson sees things, that would include most of the Wehrmacht.

[Keith_M]

This is the last post I'm going to make on this subject but I thought the views of the people affected by the tragedy on the Greek boat, both relatives of the dead and Pakistani Journalists, sums this up perfectly


“This is a double standard … they could have saved many of the people if they wanted, or at least they could have recovered the bodies.”

“It’s not the fault of five men that hundreds of people died off Greek shores. But it is the fault of a system where the class disparities are so huge,” ... “When people point that out, it is misunderstood as hatred.”
(A Pakistani Journalist, who wished to remain anonymous)
...
“It’s sad that a submarine carrying five rich people was given much more consideration, coverage and importance than the migrants on the Greek boat,” he said. “Millions of dollars must have been spent to rescue the rich, but for the poor, there’s no such opportunity. Even the Pakistani government was not paying any heed to the issue.” (a relative of one of the dead Pakistani Migrants)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/25/disbelief-and-anger-among-greek-shipwreck-victims-relatives-as-millions-spent-on-titan-rescue-effort

[Bristolhibby]

They have pulled up some wreckage and presumed human remains inside.

Should be able to DNA test and give whoever it is a proper funeral.

J

[Jack]

They have pulled up some wreckage and presumed human remains inside.

Should be able to DNA test and give whoever it is a proper funeral.

J

When some were discussing the grim reality of instant decompression at that depth it was suggested there would be nothing left to DNA test.

[Trinity Hibee]

When some were discussing the grim reality of instant decompression at that depth it was suggested there would be nothing left to DNA test.

Yeah that was my understanding too. Let’s hope there are some answers from it all.

[One Day Soon]

I admire the truly pedantic way you're not letting this go.

:rotflmao:

Did we get to 100 yet?

[lapsedhibee]

:rotflmao:

Did we get to 100 yet?

Probably, but only if you count "dying of old age while on a cruise liner" as one of the 'hundred ways the sea can kill you'.

[Just Alf]

When some were discussing the grim reality of instant decompression at that depth it was suggested there would be nothing left to DNA test.To be fair... you can get dna from a smear of 'jam'

[Bristolhibby]

When some were discussing the grim reality of instant decompression at that depth it was suggested there would be nothing left to DNA test.

That was my thinking also, but they definitely said some remains were recovered.

J

[Trinity Hibee]

Interesting documentary released on Netflix today. The Scottish former director comes out of it well. Rush had the same egotistical mind as trump and others have. When you have been warned that many times by experts but keep putting people’s lives at risk you are a complete …..

[tamig]

Interesting documentary released on Netflix today. The Scottish former director comes out of it well. Rush had the same egotistical mind as trump and others have. When you have been warned that many times by experts but keep putting people’s lives at risk you are a complete …..
Yes watched it last night. Very interesting insight. I didn’t fully appreciate the extent to which it was a certainty there would be a catastrophic failure. The man’s ego and arrogance was off the scale. And his attitude towards those who dared to challenge him was almost on a Putin-like level.

[Kato]

Yes watched it last night. Very interesting insight. I didn’t fully appreciate the extent to which it was a certainty there would be a catastrophic failure. The man’s ego and arrogance was off the scale. And his attitude towards those who dared to challenge him was almost on a Putin-like level.He reminded me of Scott of the Antartic. Foolhardy to point of being an idiot.

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