What is your top ten 'biggest' clubs in the UK?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.

[Hibernia&Alba]

By the way, Hibs just missed the cut. I put us in at 11th :greengrin

[BoomtownHibees]

Can’t believe “The Famous” never made your list

[Since452]

Man United
Celtic
Liverpool
Rangers
Arsenal
Spurs
Chelsea
Newcastle
Aston Villa
Hibs

[King Cosell]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.

Twitter followers:

Arsenal - 21,500,000
Celtic - 890,600
Rangers - 776,800

[Hibernia&Alba]

Can’t believe “The Famous” never made your list

I considered their 400,000 fans claim, dismissed it as bull****, but gave them credit for winning World War One singlehandedly.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Twitter followers:

Arsenal - 21,500,000
Celtic - 890,600
Rangers - 776,800

It's a fair point, but I would say that's due to the glamour of the EPL today. I would say only Man United and Liverpool are bigger clubs than the Old Firm, though I understand why plenty would disagree.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Man United
Celtic
Liverpool
Rangers
Arsenal
Spurs
Chelsea
Newcastle
Aston Villa
Hibs

I didn't include Villa, but back in the day they would have been mentioned by most, I imagine, and same goes for Sunderland and a few others. Villa is certainly a big club, as are West Ham, Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds United.

[Since90+2]

Man United
Celtic
Liverpool
Rangers
Arsenal
Spurs
Chelsea
Newcastle
Aston Villa
Hibs

You honestly think Celtic are a bigger club than Liverpool? Seriously?

[Stairway 2 7]

No one outside Scotland would put the old firm in the list. Also the lists will depend on people's age. Younger people would be confused about villa and Newcastle being above city.

[Trinity Hibee]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.

I would have the OF below Arsenal but think you are probably not far off with that list. I’d probably have Villa ahead of Newcastle as it currently stands. Newcastle will probably go further in the near future though

[gbhibby]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.
You would need to base it on turnover so the old firm would be well below the top 10

[CropleyWasGod]

You would need to base it on turnover so the old firm would be well below the top 10

Brighton's, Palace's and Southampton's turnovers are almost double that of Rangers. I don't think you could argue they're bigger clubs.

[Carheenlea]

Can’t believe “The Famous” never made your list

If you relentlessly feel obliged to proclaim to everyone that you are a big club, then by definition you are not a big club.

[Since90+2]

You can't base it on domestic success, otherwise Rangers, Celtic and Ajax would be the biggest clubs in the world.

For me you rate it on:

European Success. And that means consistently playing at the top end of the European game within the last few decades, winning a European trophy 50 and 60 years ago has no relevance to the size of a club in the modern game. Forest have won 2 European Cups, they ain't as big as club as Man City who have won nil.

Domestic success relative to the strength of that league. Rangers have won more titles than Man Utd and Liverpool combined, not one sane person would argue they are bigger

The ability to attract the best players in the world to your club

Club revenue

Worldwide fanbases

How many people across the world care enough to tune in and watch their games

If people are basing it on support, then before you even talk about Liverpool and Man Utd, clubs like Tottenham and Arsenal will have more fans who identify as a fan than either Celtic and Rangers. That comes with the territory of being a London club. Look at the clubs social media followings, the big English clubs absolutely dwarf the Old firm.

The media in this country have brainwashed people into thinking the Glasgow clubs are worldwide icons. The reality is if you asked any football supporter outside Scotland who was a bigger club than say Rangers or Arsenal for example, they'd think you'd gone mad.

[gbhibby]

Brighton's, Palace's and Southampton's turnovers are almost double that of Rangers. I don't think you could argue they're bigger clubs.
There are teams on that list who have never won a trophy for years. Couldn't care less if teams think they are big clubs. The old firm like their egos massaged.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I wouldn't put West Ham near a top ten but, their crowds have been quite tremendous most of this season, amazing for a side scrapping it out at the foot of the table, I'm sure I read that they're 2nd to Man United this season.

[Svengali]

Can’t believe “The Famous” never made your list

They would be desperate to be ‘third’ so they could tell everyone and claim
To be the ‘third biggest’ …. Weirdo club & support

[Hibernia&Alba]

I wouldn't put West Ham near a top ten but, their crowds have been quite tremendous most of this season, amazing for a side scrapping it out at the foot of the table, I'm sure I read that they're 2nd to Man United this season.

West Ham is a big club. They should have won more trophies in their history, but they have a European trophy, which puts them in a select group.

[He's here!]

You honestly think Celtic are a bigger club than Liverpool? Seriously?

Not financially but in terms of support base Celtic are massive. Rangers are also among the UK's bigger clubs but I'd argue Celtic are right up there with the very biggest. You just need to witness European nights at Celtic Park to see that. Glasgow's an anomoly in Scotland, more like a big English city and football is king there. They'd very quickly be among the title chasers if they joined the Premier League and had access to the cash that comes with it. I doubt the English clubs would want the baggage that goes with the OF tho.

[Since90+2]

Not financially but in terms of support base Celtic are massive. Rangers are also among the UK's bigger clubs but I'd argue Celtic are right up there with the very biggest. You just need to witness European nights at Celtic Park to see that. Glasgow's an anomoly in Scotland, more like a big English city and football is king there. They'd very quickly be among the title chasers if they joined the Premier League and had access to the cash that comes with it. I doubt the English clubs would want the baggage that goes with the OF tho.

Celtic won't have 20% of the support Liverpool do. Even domestically Liverpool will absolutely trounce them in terms of the UK, they'll be literally millions of Liverpool fans in the UK. Celtic might have half a million or so, maybe a bit more, but nothing like Liverpool.

Worldwide Liverpool would annihilate them in terms of people who 'follow" that team. Without even checking I'd imagine their social media following is probably atleast 10 times tht of Celtic.

[HoboHarry]

Not financially but in terms of support base Celtic are massive. Rangers are also among the UK's bigger clubs but I'd argue Celtic are right up there with the very biggest. You just need to witness European nights at Celtic Park to see that. Glasgow's an anomoly in Scotland, more like a big English city and football is king there. They'd very quickly be among the title chasers if they joined the Premier League and had access to the cash that comes with it. I doubt the English clubs would want the baggage that goes with the OF tho.
In 22 years here I've never once seen a Rangers top being worn, not one. Celtic tops I've seen worn twice and I couldn't tell you how many Liverpool tops I've seen but it would be in the hundreds.

[Since452]

Celtic won't have 20% of the support Liverpool do. Even domestically Liverpool will absolutely trounce them in terms of the UK, they'll be literally millions of Liverpool fans in the UK. Celtic might have half a million or so, maybe a bit more, but nothing like Liverpool.

Worldwide Liverpool would annihilate them in terms of people who 'follow" that team. Without even checking I'd imagine their social media following is probably atleast 10 times tht of Celtic.

Did Celtic not take around 100k fans to Spain for their Uefa cup final? There are very few, if any other clubs that could do the same. Maybe only Rangers. They are a gargantuan club. Horrible *******s that they are. Liverpool wouldn't annihilate them worldwide. In fact I'd probably say Celtic would have more of a worldwide following, especially in the USA due the the amount of Irish immigrants there and their "catholic" leanings.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Man United
Liverpool
Celtic
Rangers
Leeds United
Arsenal
Aston Villa
Tottenham Hotspur
Newcastle United
Everton


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Celtic won't have 20% of the support Liverpool do. Even domestically Liverpool will absolutely trounce them in terms of the UK, they'll be literally millions of Liverpool fans in the UK. Celtic might have half a million or so, maybe a bit more, but nothing like Liverpool.

Worldwide Liverpool would annihilate them in terms of people who 'follow" that team. Without even checking I'd imagine their social media following is probably atleast 10 times tht of Celtic.

Greater Glasgow itself has circa 1.6 million inhabitants, Scotlands central belt has circa 70% of the population of Scotland residing within it. Belfast has a population of around 350k and Derry a population of around 85k. I’d imagine these places would be the base of much of the Celtic support, they’ll have well over 500k supporters, that’s not even considering expats in NZ, Australia and Canada. Celtic are massive, annoyingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibees 7062]

Can’t believe “The Famous” never made your list

:greengrin

[DIXIHIBS]

The huge upsurge in fans of EPL clubs in recent years has skewed things a lot especially in asia/africa and through social media. Make no mistake the old firm are huge throughout the world in terms of 'traditional' football fans, less so now though with global branding of English clubs.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Greater Glasgow itself has circa 1.6 million inhabitants, Scotlands central belt has circa 70% of the population of Scotland residing within it. Belfast has a population of around 350k and Derry a population of around 85k. I’d imagine these places would be the base of much of the Celtic support, they’ll have well over 500k supporters, that’s not even considering expats in NZ, Australia and Canada. Celtic are massive, annoyingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree
Add to your list, the USA ,notably Boston, New York ,New Jersey.
All have Celtic SCs ,as does Chicago Ill.

And of course ,the Republic of Ireland !
I drank in a bar in Denver,Colorado over 20yrs ago.
The owner ,Irish-American, had a ST and considerable shares in Celtic .
Caught a few games a season he did ! Loadsamoney!
The pub juke box was superb !
The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem and The Dubliners .
Had the Proclaimers as well!
Yes Celtic support worldwide is BIG
Celtic would fill stadiums in Cities above in pre season summer tour friendly games !


And that has been the case for decades with Celtic fans abroad.
Long before internet/social media and a million twitter fans mentioned for English Clubs on this thread came about.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.

It would be more controversial imo for people to claim spurs are bigger than Celtic. 60+ years without a domestic league title for Tottenham (and only 2 in their entire history). European Cups? Celtic 1-0 Spurs.

id have villa ahead of spurs too btw.

[hibsbollah]

The first post is pretty much accurate, if we take a broadly conventional approach to defining what ‘big’ means. It just feels a bit Jambo to me and I don’t really care.

You know when you’re in a proper big clubs stadium. And for me, I’ve never had a big’ club experience like Marseille PSG at the velodrome. You feel like you’re at the centre of the football universe for that one moment. But it’s all personal, isn’t it? I’m sure Stoke-Port Vale or Oxford-Swindon or Arsenal-Spurs get similar feelings.

[Bristolhibby]

I agree
Add to your list, the USA ,notably Boston, New York ,New Jersey.
All have Celtic SCs ,as does Chicago Ill.

And of course ,the Republic of Ireland !
I drank in a bar in Denver,Colorado over 20yrs ago.
The owner ,Irish-American, had a ST and considerable shares in Celtic .
Caught a few games a season he did ! Loadsamoney!
The pub juke box was superb !
The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem and The Dubliners .
Had the Proclaimers as well!
Yes Celtic support worldwide is BIG
Celtic would fill stadiums in Cities above in pre season summer tour friendly games !


And that has been the case for decades with Celtic fans abroad.
Long before internet/social media and a million twitter fans mentioned for English Clubs on this thread came about.

Interesting. I wonder if “daftness of fans” is a criteria?

Like how die hard they are as a group. Or percentage of die hards as a global number. This doesn’t include random Chinese chap wearing a Man U shirt. But does include the chair of the Auckland Hibs supporters club who watch games every Sunday morning at 0200.

J

[Since452]

It's all subjective. I'd have Hibs and Hearts as bigger clubs than Aberdeen but Aberdeen fans reckon they're bigger than both. Who knows. It's all warped now by money, especially in England and Europe. Ask a 12 year old and they'd have Man City and PSG as bigger clubs than AC Milan and Ajax or Brighton & Hove Albion bigger than Sheffield Wednesday.

[Sioux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iLL57puZPM

This is how big Liverpool are.

[superfurryhibby]

20) Boca Juniors - 16,285,317 followers
19) Fenerbache - 20,851,270 followers
18) Corinthians - 21,517,168 followers
17) Tottenham - 21,787,868 followers
16) Flamengo - 22, 995, 937 followers
15) Inter Milan - 23,072,360 followers
14) Atletico Madrid - 26,562,835 followers
13) Borussia Dortmund - 26,882,383 followers
12) Galatasaray - 29,177,682 followers
11) AC Milan - 38,225,441 followers
10) Manchester City - 60,718,505 followers
9) Liverpool - 67,883,909 followers
8) Arsenal - 68,650,732 followers
7) Paris Saint-Germain - 70,067,458 followers
6) Bayern Munich - 72,855,574 followers
5) Juventus - 79,422,589 followers
4) Chelsea - 80,475,417
3) Manchester United - 125,255,379 followers
2) Barcelona - 211,914,075 followers
1) Real Madrid - 222,471,779 followers

This is by social media followers. Rangers and Celtic not quoted. https://www.givemesport.com/1514024-the-top-20-football-clubs-with-the-largest-social-media-followings-in-the-world/

I can't find the link, but noted that the OF derby was the 7th most watched domestic league match. No 1 was the Manchester derby, no2 was El Classico.

[LaMotta]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.

If we are looking at size based on fame, the number of Twitter followers gives a certain indication of how big a club is.

It certainly indicates how well known a club is. Based on that Celtic and Rangers are nowhere near top ten.

Norwich, Brighton and West Brom have more followers each than Rangers for example.

Edit - just saw post above alluding to this too!

[Willis1875]

If we are looking at size based on fame, the number of Twitter followers gives a certain indication of how big a club is.

It certainly indicates how well known a club is. Based on that Celtic and Rangers are nowhere near top ten.

Norwich, Brighton and West Brom have more followers each than Rangers for example.

Edit - just saw post above alluding to this too!

If you went by twitter followers then Wrexham would be 5 times a bigger club then Hibs

[LaMotta]

If you went by twitter followers then Wrexham would be 5 times a bigger club then Hibs

Wrexham an outlier, but right now they are better known than Hibs or Hearts for obvious reasons.

Of course, there is no universal definition of what a big club is though, and ultimately it doesnt even mean anything.:greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think you can boil it down to who has the most Twitter followers to determine either the size of a clubs fanbase or how big they are. Looking at the list above I'd have a team like Ajax as bigger than plenty teams on the list yet they aren't quoted. I follow loads of teams on social media that I don't support and plenty supporters will follow no one on social media. I don't think clicking a button on Facbook or Twitter really gives an insight into how engaged someone is when it comes to a football club.

I think in the UK Manchester United and Liverpool probably hit the most markers to be considered the biggest 2. Rich history, historical and (relatively) recent success, big local fanbase, big national fanbase and global recognition. I think Arsenal probably hit all those metrics as well. Others will hit some of those points but arguably not all of them. United and Liverpool are clubs that are iconic, even people that don't support or like them could probably give you a rundown of their former players and potted history of their successes.

I'm not sure if you can condense things down to just numbers or even on field success though. Leicester have more Twitter followers than Newcastle and have won a league and FA Cup in the last decade but how many would argue they are a bigger club? Queen's Park are giants of the game in a historical context and are still the joint 5th most successful club in Scotland (along with us). Would we say they are of comparable size to us or bigger than Dundee United though? The same could be said about Notts County in England, not a big club by the metrics of social media followers or even trophies won but a hugely significant one historically.

I think a lot of it is generational as well. In France I'd always think of Marseille and St Etienne as being bigger clubs than PSG regardless of who is better known worldwide these days but someone who is 16 would find that ridiculous. Same in a European sense; clubs like Celtic, Ajax and Benfica will always be among the biggest clubs for me regardless of whether they don't have a lot of followers on social media and will never get close to winning a Champions League again. Again someone a lot younger would be blue in the face arguing Man City are far bigger than any of them.

[Trinity Hibee]

Interesting discussion and as many have said there is no one measure and what does it mean anyway.

Worldwide I’d say the below would be top 5:

1. Real Madrid
2. Man U
3. Barcelona
4. Liverpool
5. AC Milan

Purely based on history, trophies, stadium, fans/supporters across the globe. All iconic clubs

[Hibernia&Alba]

Interesting discussion and as many have said there is no one measure and what does it mean anyway.

Worldwide I’d say the below would be top 5:

1. Real Madrid
2. Man U
3. Barcelona
4. Liverpool
5. AC Milan

Purely based on history, trophies, stadium, fans/supporters across the globe. All iconic clubs

Bayern Munich?

[Trinity Hibee]

Bayern Munich?

Not sure how I forgot about Bayern. They not similar to AC Milan would you say?

[Smartie]

Are AC Milan bigger than Juventus?

[Scouse Hibee]

Liverpool
Manure Utd
Chelsea
Arsenal
Celtic
Man City
Tottenham
Newcastle
Rangers
Hibs

[LaMotta]

I don't think you can boil it down to who has the most Twitter followers to determine either the size of a clubs fanbase or how big they are. Looking at the list above I'd have a team like Ajax as bigger than plenty teams on the list yet they aren't quoted. I follow loads of teams on social media that I don't support and plenty supporters will follow no one on social media. I don't think clicking a button on Facbook or Twitter really gives an insight into how engaged someone is when it comes to a football club.

I think in the UK Manchester United and Liverpool probably hit the most markers to be considered the biggest 2. Rich history, historical and (relatively) recent success, big local fanbase, big national fanbase and global recognition. I think Arsenal probably hit all those metrics as well. Others will hit some of those points but arguably not all of them. United and Liverpool are clubs that are iconic, even people that don't support or like them could probably give you a rundown of their former players and potted history of their successes.

I'm not sure if you can condense things down to just numbers or even on field success though. Leicester have more Twitter followers than Newcastle and have won a league and FA Cup in the last decade but how many would argue they are a bigger club? Queen's Park are giants of the game in a historical context and are still the joint 5th most successful club in Scotland (along with us). Would we say they are of comparable size to us or bigger than Dundee United though? The same could be said about Notts County in England, not a big club by the metrics of social media followers or even trophies won but a hugely significant one historically.

I think a lot of it is generational as well. In France I'd always think of Marseille and St Etienne as being bigger clubs than PSG regardless of who is better known worldwide these days but someone who is 16 would find that ridiculous. Same in a European sense; clubs like Celtic, Ajax and Benfica will always be among the biggest clubs for me regardless of whether they don't have a lot of followers on social media and will never get close to winning a Champions League again. Again someone a lot younger would be blue in the face arguing Man City are far bigger than any of them.

Of course Twitter isnt the defining factor, but dismissing it as irrelevant is not right. Its a measurable number, like trophies won, attendances etc. Many of the other arguments on who is a big club are just based on a feeling.

[Since452]

Celtic and Rangers have both taken around 100k fans to European finals in my lifetime. Can't think of any other clubs that would take those numbers. They also pack out English clubs stadiums for pre season friendlies. For all the reasons above there is the obvious novelty factor but they are both gargantuan clubs. Glasgow and Scotland is a bit of an anomaly because of the religious factor. If they played in another country I think over time that would become diluted and they'd not carry the following they do right now.

[DH1875]

20) Boca Juniors - 16,285,317 followers
19) Fenerbache - 20,851,270 followers
18) Corinthians - 21,517,168 followers
17) Tottenham - 21,787,868 followers
16) Flamengo - 22, 995, 937 followers
15) Inter Milan - 23,072,360 followers
14) Atletico Madrid - 26,562,835 followers
13) Borussia Dortmund - 26,882,383 followers
12) Galatasaray - 29,177,682 followers
11) AC Milan - 38,225,441 followers
10) Manchester City - 60,718,505 followers
9) Liverpool - 67,883,909 followers
8) Arsenal - 68,650,732 followers
7) Paris Saint-Germain - 70,067,458 followers
6) Bayern Munich - 72,855,574 followers
5) Juventus - 79,422,589 followers
4) Chelsea - 80,475,417
3) Manchester United - 125,255,379 followers
2) Barcelona - 211,914,075 followers
1) Real Madrid - 222,471,779 followers

This is by social media followers. Rangers and Celtic not quoted. https://www.givemesport.com/1514024-the-top-20-football-clubs-with-the-largest-social-media-followings-in-the-world/

I can't find the link, but noted that the OF derby was the 7th most watched domestic league match. No 1 was the Manchester derby, no2 was El Classico.

Wonder where Benfica are on that list. Pretty sure at one point the had more club members than any other club in the world.

[DH1875]

Are AC Milan bigger than Juventus?

In Italy, no. Juve have thousands of fans throughout Italy who have never been to Turin yet alone a Juve game. Bit like hun fans here who have never been to ibrox.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Are AC Milan bigger than Juventus?

Probably not, if we go by number of supporters in their own country. Juventus have an enormous latent support who follow the team from the length and breadth of Italy.

[hibsbollah]

Probably not, if we go by number of supporters in their own country. Juventus have an enormous latent support who follow the team from the length and breadth of Italy.

:agree: Weirdly, most Juve fans are actually from the south of Italy, many of them extended families of economic migrants who moved to the industrial North in massive numbers after WW2 and adopted Juve as ‘their’ team. Families who’ve lived in Turin for generations tend to support Torino.

[OstKurve Hibs]

Celtic and rangers dont even come close to man u, liverpool, man city, chelsea, arsenal on a global scale, the cheeks are light years from having the global pull of those clubs.

[Trinity Hibee]

Are AC Milan bigger than Juventus?

Worldwide I would have said yes but don’t have evidence to back that up.

[Is It On....]

In 22 years here I've never once seen a Rangers top being worn, not one. Celtic tops I've seen worn twice and I couldn't tell you how many Liverpool tops I've seen but it would be in the hundreds.

I did once bump into someone in Lima Airport who was wearing a Macc Lads T-shirt which was a bit unexpected 😂

[Mcbizz1998]

Celtic and rangers dont even come close to man u, liverpool, man city, chelsea, arsenal on a global scale, the cheeks are light years from having the global pull of those clubs.

They are both bigger than Man City.

[cameronw-hfc]

No one outside Scotland would put the old firm in the list. Also the lists will depend on people's age. Younger people would be confused about villa and Newcastle being above city.


I started following Villa loosely because I had a Brummie uncle that lived a few doors down and whenever I was over he was watching them. It wasn't until he died I adopted them properly as a second team and really got into until I realised just how big they actually are. A club with a 42,000 stadium and 18 thousand in the waiting list for a season ticket, the European Cup, the fact that anyone over 30 would remember them being pretty successful in the cups and league, being the 3rd or 4th richest in the prem, Villa are a massive club.

Newcastle as well- but I'm biased and would say Villas success would put them above them. I would also say City are a big club, I remember the old city, but this Hsnt been a 2 year flirt with success, they're here to stay and imo they're one of the big superpowers in football now.

Have to say, being a 24yo Hibs and Villa fan hasn't half been bleak at times during my lifetime. 2 relegations, embarrasing cup final defeats on both sides, near bankruptcy for one club and both at the same time going through a prolonged 4/5 year slow and steady downfall😂

Wouldn't change it for the world though.

[Brightside]

There are no Scottish teams in the top10 right now. The reach of EPL teams is massive now. If you'd asked the qn 10/20 years ago then yes the Old Firm would be in it. But the Top EPL teams are miles ahead in terms of reach and all other media metrics.

[BILLYHIBS]

Celtic
Rangers
Man Utd
Liverpool
Everton
Spurs
Chelsea
Newcastle
Man City
Hibs

[Hibernia&Alba]

:agree: Weirdly, most Juve fans are actually from the south of Italy, many of them extended families of economic migrants who moved to the industrial North in massive numbers after WW2 and adopted Juve as ‘their’ team. Families who’ve lived in Turin for generations tend to support Torino.

I think Benfica have a similar story in Portugal. It's a huge club, but like the Old Firm, they are constrained by the league they are in. Ajax is another a huge club, as is Galatasaray.

[Greenbeard]

Can we start a list of the top ten clubs to go down the pan and float away in the sewers like a stinking jobby?
Actually just make that a list of one.

[BILLYHIBS]

Can we start a list of the top ten clubs to go down the pan and float away in the sewers like a stinking jobby?
Actually just make that a list of one.

Hopefully next time they will be flushed away for good no second chances or reincarnations

[Bostonhibby]

Can we start a list of the top ten clubs to go down the pan and float away in the sewers like a stinking jobby?
Actually just make that a list of one.Biggest debt avoided by liquidation, or longest creditors list?[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Torto7]

Domestic UK and Ireland:
Man Utd/Celtic/Rangers/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/Newcastle/Villa/Spurs/City

International:
Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic/Plastic.

[He's here!]

Celtic won't have 20% of the support Liverpool do. Even domestically Liverpool will absolutely trounce them in terms of the UK, they'll be literally millions of Liverpool fans in the UK. Celtic might have half a million or so, maybe a bit more, but nothing like Liverpool.

Worldwide Liverpool would annihilate them in terms of people who 'follow" that team. Without even checking I'd imagine their social media following is probably atleast 10 times tht of Celtic.

A lot of the global/social media support for the bigger English clubs is based on the exposure the Premier League gets worldwide. Even without that, Celtic's fan base around the world will not be far off Liverpool's, if not bigger.

[GRA]

IMHO the top 5 are:

1) Hibs first team
2) Hibs development squad
3) Hibs under 21s
4) Hibs under 18s
5) Hibs ladies

:wink::thumbsup:

[HoboHarry]

They are both bigger than Man City.
I doubt that anyone born and raised outside of Scotland would believe that.

[Since90+2]

A lot of the global/social media support for the bigger English clubs is based on the exposure the Premier League gets worldwide. Even without that, Celtic's fan base around the world will not be far off Liverpool's, if not bigger.

Not a chance.

Celtic have a bigger fanbase worldwide than Liverpool? This place is a Celtic love in at times.

Liverpool are one of the biggest 6 or 7 clubs in the world. They could tour literally any country in the world in pre season and fill out stadiums.

[jacomo]

I considered their 400,000 fans claim, dismissed it as bull****, but gave them credit for winning World War One singlehandedly.


The Famous have a fanbase of at least 400,000,000.

[AgentDaleCooper]

IMHO the top 5 are:

1) Hibs first team
2) Hibs development squad
3) Hibs under 21s
4) Hibs under 18s
5) Hibs ladies

:wink::thumbsup:

well done on the sexism there :aok:

[DH1875]

well done on the sexism there :aok:

How are they being sexist?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

How are they being sexist?

I believe it was a joke, sir


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

Not a chance.

Celtic have a bigger fanbase worldwide than Liverpool? This place is a Celtic love in at times.

Liverpool are one of the biggest 6 or 7 clubs in the world. They could tour literally any country in the world in pre season and fill out stadiums.

Nothing to do with a Celtic love-in. I can't stand them and would happily see the back of both them and Rangers. I just think you're underestimating what a massive club they are.

[Since90+2]

Nothing to do with a Celtic love-in. I can't stand them and would happily see the back of both them and Rangers. I just think you're underestimating what a massive club they are.

If you think they have a bigger support than Liverpool, then it's not me doing the underestimating.

[HFC93]

1.Hibs
2.Hibs Women
3.Hibs Development Squad
4.Hibs Under-18s
5.Hibernians (Malta)
6.Leith Athletic
7.Edina Hibs
8.Dundee Hibs
9.Hibs Colts
10.Real Madrid

[Pagan Hibernia]

Are AC Milan bigger than Juventus?

In terms of success it’s a very good question. Juve are ahead 36-19 in league titles, AC Milan are ahead 7-2 in European Cups.

[lyonhibs]

Assuming like real adults we ignore social media following, because that takes just 1 click,in the UK I'd say both the old Firm are in the top 5 or 6, much as I despise them. Only Man U, Liverpool and maybe Arsenal are bigger

[JamesHFC]

Your age will probably also have a factor on your opinion. Many 18 year olds now will have grown up with Newcastle either being in the championship or fighting relegation whilst growing up with no trophies to show for it. They would have also seen neither Arsenal or Spurs win a league title or European trophy except an FA Cup or League Cup. Many of them probably consider Man City as bigger than most clubs purely because of their success in the last decade.

[Hibernia&Alba]

1.Hibs
2.Hibs Women
3.Hibs Development Squad
4.Hibs Under-18s
5.Hibernians (Malta)
6.Leith Athletic
7.Edina Hibs
8.Dundee Hibs
9.Hibs Colts
10.Real Madrid

There is always at least one :greengrin

Good thing is we aren't like the maroonics in constantly trying to prove how big a club we are. In the context of Scottish football we are a big club; in the grand scheme of things we are a million miles away from being a genuinely big club, which is perfectly okay. I'd love to see Hibs grow further in the future. Perhaps it will never happen, but so what?

[Baader]

Your age will probably also have a factor on your opinion. Many 18 year olds now will have grown up with Newcastle either being in the championship or fighting relegation whilst growing up with no trophies to show for it. They would have also seen neither Arsenal or Spurs win a league title or European trophy except an FA Cup or League Cup. Many of them probably consider Man City as bigger than most clubs purely because of their success in the last decade.

You'd need to be around 60 years old to remember the last time Newcastle won a major trophy!

Spurs, a fairly big club in terms of fan base, have a pathetic league record. Two top flight titles in their history. The most recent being in 1961!

Everton, by comparison, have won the English top flight 9 times. Only Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have won it more.

Despite hating them both Celtic and Rangers easily make a top ten for UK.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Not a chance.

Celtic have a bigger fanbase worldwide than Liverpool? This place is a Celtic love in at times.

Liverpool are one of the biggest 6 or 7 clubs in the world. They could tour literally any country in the world in pre season and fill out stadiums.

It’s not a Celtic love in, it’s stating facts. Celtic could do the same in tours. You claim 6-7m Liverpool fans in UK - Celtic probably not dissimilar given every English team/supporter seems to adopt Celtic or Rangers as their “Scottish team”. Celtic have a huge presence in Asia and the Far East too (as do Liverpool). No one is disputing the Liverpool claims, we all recognise that. However the numbers you’re labelling Celtic with are in line with Crystal Palace or the likes worldwide. You’re a mile off.

FWIW, Rangers have a massive worldwide support too. Less across Asia/Far East. Probably have a much bigger % of England following them than Celtic.

[Keith_M]

Number one is Inverness Caledonian Thistle

Number two is Wolverhampton Wanderers


Not sure about which comes next.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Number one is Inverness Caledonian Thistle

Number two is Wolverhampton Wanderers


Not sure about which comes next.

3rd is Brighton and Hove Albion I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Number one isInverness Caledonian Thistle

Number two is Wolverhampton Wanderers


Not sure about which comes next.

Supporters scarves are made eight feet long, to fit the club name on.

[LaMotta]

Assuming like real adults we ignore social media following, because that takes just 1 click,in the UK I'd say both the old Firm are in the top 5 or 6, much as I despise them. Only Man U, Liverpool and maybe Arsenal are bigger

Why? Whats your justification?

[superfurryhibby]

English football is a bigger draw

BARB figures show that a total of around 275,000 people tuned into the Old Firm match across Sky Sports Football (85,000) and Sky Sports Main Event (190,000). The match kicked off half an hour earlier than another televised game in which West Ham United took on Tottenham Hotspur - perhaps not the biggest rivalry in the English top flight but still a London derby with England internationals involved.

The viewing figures for Aston Villa’s clash with Nottingham Forest in the English Championship that evening were around 300,000. The following day, nearly 150,000 more viewers (close to 425,000) tuned into the Steel City derby between Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield United.

Liverpool’s midweek Carabao Cup clash with Leicester was watched by 760,000 viewers.

Forest Green’s Friday night clash with Swindown Town drew 127,000 viewers on Sky Sports Football - over 40,000 more than watched the Old Firm game on the same channel.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/why-football-fans-are-no-longer-watching-old-firm-games-on-tv-2475701

From 2017.

[Hibernia&Alba]

English football is a bigger draw

BARB figures show that a total of around 275,000 people tuned into the Old Firm match across Sky Sports Football (85,000) and Sky Sports Main Event (190,000). The match kicked off half an hour earlier than another televised game in which West Ham United took on Tottenham Hotspur - perhaps not the biggest rivalry in the English top flight but still a London derby with England internationals involved.

The viewing figures for Aston Villa’s clash with Nottingham Forest in the English Championship that evening were around 300,000. The following day, nearly 150,000 more viewers (close to 425,000) tuned into the Steel City derby between Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield United.

Liverpool’s midweek Carabao Cup clash with Leicester was watched by 760,000 viewers.

Forest Green’s Friday night clash with Swindown Town drew 127,000 viewers on Sky Sports Football - over 40,000 more than watched the Old Firm game on the same channel.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/latest-owls-news/why-football-fans-are-no-longer-watching-old-firm-games-on-tv-2475701

From 2017.

I would still argue the Old Firm game is the biggest fixture in British football. Perhaps Man United v Liverpool can match it, but that's doubtful.

[Mcbizz1998]

I doubt that anyone born and raised outside of Scotland would believe that.

City were absolutely irrelevant from the late 60’s onwards.

They have of course been a lot more successful recently, following the injection of Arab cash but no danger are they are a bigger club than either of the arse cheeks.

[Hibernia&Alba]

City were absolutely irrelevant from the late 60’s onwards.

They have of course been a lot more successful recently, following the injection of Arab cash but no danger are they are a bigger club than either of the arse cheeks.

Agreed. Obviously, those of us who support Scottish teams beyond the Old Firm don't like to give them any plaudits, but both are enormous clubs. Put them in the EPL, with the money in that league, and they would soon be competitive. I still maintain that only Man United and Liverpool are bigger than them.

[Keith_M]

3rd is Brighton and Hove Albion I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:aok:

[jacomo]

Your age will probably also have a factor on your opinion. Many 18 year olds now will have grown up with Newcastle either being in the championship or fighting relegation whilst growing up with no trophies to show for it. They would have also seen neither Arsenal or Spurs win a league title or European trophy except an FA Cup or League Cup. Many of them probably consider Man City as bigger than most clubs purely because of their success in the last decade.


Hardly anyone alive remembers Newcastle lifting a trophy. Come on now.

They are fortunate to be a one city club so have a big fanbase. Other than that, Newcastle are nowhere.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hardly anyone alive remembers Newcastle lifting a trophy. Come on now.

They are fortunate to be a one city club so have a big fanbase. Other than that, Newcastle are nowhere.

It's a big club, though the fact they have no rival club in a city of that size is unusual and certainly helps them. Same goes for Leeds - why only one club in a city that size? It's an interesting question.

[jacomo]

Agreed. Obviously, those of us who support Scottish teams beyond the Old Firm don't like to give them any plaudits, but both are enormous clubs. Put them in the EPL, with the money in that league, and they would soon be competitive. I still maintain that only Man United and Liverpool are bigger than them.


Much as it pains me to say it, football has little sense of history.

If you judge the size of a club by how many folk across the world wear their replica strip then Chelsea are miles bigger than the old firm. Arsenal definitely are.

[Mcbizz1998]

Much as it pains me to say it, football has little sense of history.

If you judge the size of a club by how many folk across the world wear their replica strip then Chelsea are miles bigger than the old firm. Arsenal definitely are.

Well, interesting point. I’m in Benidorm atm, cheap and cheerful.

I’ve been counting the various football tops I’ve spotted. Plenty old firm, lots of Liverpool and Man United. Spurs have been by far the most prevalent, only one Arsenal I’ve spotted.

Nae Hibs or Hearts, only Scottish club (apart from the arse cheeks) I’ve seen is Dundee. Few of them in the tartan bar watching their game last night.

Other spots have been - Preston NE, Forest, Leeds, Everton, Bristol City, Palace. And randomly, I’ve seen about 6 Northern Ireland strips - must be Huns?

[Baader]

Much as it pains me to say it, football has little sense of history.

If you judge the size of a club by how many folk across the world wear their replica strip then Chelsea are miles bigger than the old firm. Arsenal definitely are.

Interesting. The fact a lot of people in African countries, for example, have a Chelsea top and watch their games there (they do have a big following in Nigeria, Ghana and Ivory Coast) does it really make them bigger than the likes of Celtic whose average attendance is 20,000 more than Chelsea?

Chelsea arent even regarded as that much of a big club in London!

If both clubs built for example a 200k capacity stadium we know who'd get the bigger attendance - not Chelsea!

[where'stheslope]

Number one is Inverness Caledonian Thistle

Number two is Wolverhampton Wanderers


Not sure about which comes next.
Naw!!!
Hertz are always a No.2!!!!!

[Hibernia&Alba]

Naw!!!
Hertz are always a No.2!!!!!


:hilarious:hilarious:top marks

They are indeed a massive number two.

[Mick O'Rourke]

In the modern day of clubs having their own TV channel, International subscription for the "big",well supported, UK clubs must be substantial.
I fancy in the US, Canada, Oz and NZ, Celtic ,for example, will have thousands of subscribers/viewers.

So not really fairweather,or social media/twitter fans...

Just "far away fans" :greengrin

[DIXIHIBS]

These debates are always interesting but what really constitutes a "big club"? Fanbase, trophies, turnover, europe etc. Many smaller clubs have more onfield success than bigger clubs but does that make them "big"? Some lower EPL clubs have much higher turnover/income the the uglies but it doesnt make them bigger. I think most people judge a clubs size on its fanbase (actual fans not twitter likes). In Scotland the uglies are miles ahead. Hibs/hearts can take 30k plus to hampden for example aberdeen cant. Fanbase is for me the main thing in bigliness.

[Hibdan12]

On current worldwide/recognition support I'd go:
1. Man united
2. Liverpool
3. Arsenal
4. Man city
5. Chelsea
6. Celtic
7. Rangers
8. Newcastle
9. West ham
10. Wrexham


Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[CREESE]

Biggest in inverted commas because it's subjective. Do we define biggest by number of fans, attendances, income, wealth, trophies won, allure to other players and managers? We all have our own criteria. I would use one simple question: ask a random person anywhere in the world to name either an English or Scottish football club, and what answer would you likely get? It will change over time; the EPL is truly global and now dwarfs Scottish football. However, for a small country we do have two globally famous clubs. Here's mine for 2023, taking into account history and current profile:

1, Manchester United
2, Liverpool
3, Celtic
4, Rangers
5, Arsenal
6, Tottenham Hotspur
7, Chelsea
8, Manchester City
9, Everton
10, Newcastle United

Might be controversial to claim the Old Firm are bigger than the likes of Arsenal and Spurs, but I would say they are.

How on earth are Everton mentioned. Haven’t done anything in 40 years since the 80’s other than get progressively worse.

[jacomo]

Interesting. The fact a lot of people in African countries, for example, have a Chelsea top and watch their games there (they do have a big following in Nigeria, Ghana and Ivory Coast) does it really make them bigger than the likes of Celtic whose average attendance is 20,000 more than Chelsea?

Chelsea arent even regarded as that much of a big club in London!

If both clubs built for example a 200k capacity stadium we know who'd get the bigger attendance - not Chelsea!


I have absolutely no love for Chelsea.

However I can’t deny what two decades of financial doping have achieved. Chelsea have been trying and failing to build a stadium as big as Parkhead for years… I have no doubt they would fill it if it ever happens.

[jacomo]

How on earth are Everton mentioned. Haven’t done anything in 40 years since the 80’s other than get progressively worse.


When I moved to England in the early 90s Everton were generally spoken about as one of biggest clubs.

I still think that even though they have done nothing to justify that tag for a very long time. I them and Arsenal have the longest uninterrupted run in the top flight though.

[JimBHibees]

On current worldwide/recognition support I'd go:
1. Man united
2. Liverpool
3. Arsenal
4. Man city
5. Chelsea
6. Celtic
7. Rangers
8. Newcastle
9. West ham
10. Wrexham


Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Don't think the erm Scottish teams would be anywhere near the top ten given the global reach of the EPL

[JimBHibees]

These debates are always interesting but what really constitutes a "big club"? Fanbase, trophies, turnover, europe etc. Many smaller clubs have more onfield success than bigger clubs but does that make them "big"? Some lower EPL clubs have much higher turnover/income the the uglies but it doesnt make them bigger. I think most people judge a clubs size on its fanbase (actual fans not twitter likes). In Scotland the uglies are miles ahead. Hibs/hearts can take 30k plus to hampden for example aberdeen cant. Fanbase is for me the main thing in bigliness.

Aberdeen had about 40k at their league Cup final v Inverness

[DIXIHIBS]

Aberdeen had about 40k at their league Cup final v Inverness

Didnt realise that. Glory hunters eh😀😀

[Pagan Hibernia]

Well, interesting point. I’m in Benidorm atm, cheap and cheerful.

I’ve been counting the various football tops I’ve spotted. Plenty old firm, lots of Liverpool and Man United. Spurs have been by far the most prevalent, only one Arsenal I’ve spotted.

Nae Hibs or Hearts, only Scottish club (apart from the arse cheeks) I’ve seen is Dundee. Few of them in the tartan bar watching their game last night.

Other spots have been - Preston NE, Forest, Leeds, Everton, Bristol City, Palace. And randomly, I’ve seen about 6 Northern Ireland strips - must be Huns?

or maybe just football fans from Northern Ireland