The Water issue

[Jones28]

I didn't think this was appropriate for the climate change thread, and couldn't find a previous thread on this issue.

Feargal Sharkey has been on GMB and is now on LBC talking about 1500 sewage dumpings at Blue Flag beeches - which are the highest standard of water quality apparently.

Previous contributions also mention swans with a poo-tideline on it and a kayaker who got an infected hand from coming in to contact with ****.

Now I know in Scotland things are very different, and having has several dealings with Scottish Water in the past I was pretty impressed by them, and I haven't heard any negatives from anyone else whos had dealings with them either.

But I am also very aware of how little we seem to monitor our water quality in terms of swimming quality at beeches and rivers - can anyone enlighten me?

How does this change? No doubt that what happens in England will eventually impact Scotland too, and is there a way that we can increase and better monitor the quality of the water in our seas and rivers here?

[Smartie]

I didn't think this was appropriate for the climate change thread, and couldn't find a previous thread on this issue.

Feargal Sharkey has been on GMB and is now on LBC talking about 1500 sewage dumpings at Blue Flag beeches - which are the highest standard of water quality apparently.

Previous contributions also mention swans with a poo-tideline on it and a kayaker who got an infected hand from coming in to contact with ****.

Now I know in Scotland things are very different, and having has several dealings with Scottish Water in the past I was pretty impressed by them, and I haven't heard any negatives from anyone else whos had dealings with them either.

But I am also very aware of how little we seem to monitor our water quality in terms of swimming quality at beeches and rivers - can anyone enlighten me?

How does this change? No doubt that what happens in England will eventually impact Scotland too, and is there a way that we can increase and better monitor the quality of the water in our seas and rivers here?

Not got anything of substance to contribute here but I do find something funny about our celebrity culture and how it now seems to be down to certain people to carry forward certain very important campaigns. Like - Feargal Sharkey and Paul Whitehouse becoming those who are most forthright about the health of the UK's rivers - it just feels a bit surreal.

Fair play to the pair of them, I wish them nothing but absolute success in their work and applaud them both for what they do.

[Jack]

Not got anything of substance to contribute here but I do find something funny about our celebrity culture and how it now seems to be down to certain people to carry forward certain very important campaigns. Like - Feargal Sharkey and Paul Whitehouse becoming those who are most forthright about the health of the UK's rivers - it just feels a bit surreal.

Fair play to the pair of them, I wish them nothing but absolute success in their work and applaud them both for what they do.

Feargal Sharkey and Paul Whitehouse are both keen fishermen. I suspect mucky rivers are spoiling their fun.

I don't see any issue with their contribution to this debate given their 'emotional' investment in their past time.

Rivers just look pretty in the passing to me but it's nice to see them clean with fish, otters and various birds as it is mostly around the Water of Leith these days. A far cry from how it was even not so long ago.

[wookie70]

I was walking along the Union Canal the other day and an Otter popped up around 50 yards from a Shark. The Otter was a very healthy looking mammal but the Shark was a Hoover. The Canal looked in decent shape with lots of plant growth.

The Figgate Park where I spent much of my childhood is a haven for wildlife now and lots of work has went into giving nature a chance and that usually means we humans benefit too.

The debate of LBS this morning was topped by the caller who said he would be fined for pumping sewage into the river adjacent to his home. However the septic tank he uses is collected and its contents probably find its way into that river after him making payments for their safe disposal. The entire system in the UK is made for the benefit of the rich to make money from their money. For a service based economy we are appalling at providing basic services.

[Stairway 2 7]

I didn't think this was appropriate for the climate change thread, and couldn't find a previous thread on this issue.

Feargal Sharkey has been on GMB and is now on LBC talking about 1500 sewage dumpings at Blue Flag beeches - which are the highest standard of water quality apparently.

Previous contributions also mention swans with a poo-tideline on it and a kayaker who got an infected hand from coming in to contact with ****.

Now I know in Scotland things are very different, and having has several dealings with Scottish Water in the past I was pretty impressed by them, and I haven't heard any negatives from anyone else whos had dealings with them either.

But I am also very aware of how little we seem to monitor our water quality in terms of swimming quality at beeches and rivers - can anyone enlighten me?

How does this change? No doubt that what happens in England will eventually impact Scotland too, and is there a way that we can increase and better monitor the quality of the water in our seas and rivers here?

It was on before but Fergal was commenting on the dumping in Scottish waters last week. 14,000 swimming pools worth of sewage dumped into Scottish water in a year
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/swimming-pools-sewage-scotland-rivers-29583848.amp

The water at Silverknowes is disgusting with a layer of **** often near the shore, it wasn't tested the last two years but fisherow was rated poor by SEPA both years

[wookie70]

It was on before but Fergal was commenting on the dumping in Scottish waters last week. 14,000 swimming pools worth of sewage dumped into Scottish water in a year
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/swimming-pools-sewage-scotland-rivers-29583848.amp

The water at Silverknowes is disgusting with a layer of **** often near the shore, it wasn't tested the last two years but fisherow was rated poor by SEPA both years

Is there any explanation. For years water quality was getting better in the Forth.

Sewage often finds its way into water courses after storms and heavy rainfall as they tend to be used as overflows for the sewers. That has become more frequent as the climate changes. Is it Scottish Water dumping sewage or is it sewage systems not coping with the different climate and perhaps not being maintained and upgraded as new house are built etc. The result is the same I dare say but the solutions could be far more costly if the system is now unable to cope.

[Moulin Yarns]

This is strange, it's being put up as if every river in Scotland is an open sewer and every beach is covered in excrement.

I'm just back from the Berwickshire coast and saw nothing amiss at the beaches there. I'm a mile from the river Tummel and the local beaver population is thriving because the river quality is excellent.


I suppose the problems are associated with areas of high population, but it is therefore localised.

[Stairway 2 7]

This is strange, it's being put up as if every river in Scotland is an open sewer and every beach is covered in excrement.

I'm just back from the Berwickshire coast and saw nothing amiss at the beaches there. I'm a mile from the river Tummel and the local beaver population is thriving because the river quality is excellent.


I suppose the problems are associated with areas of high population, but it is therefore localised.

Eyemouth was in the top 10 worst rated and was given a recommendation of no bathing so hopefully you weren't taking a dip there.

Climate change is probably a huge factor but I'm sure more could be done. I'm also sure most water is fine but we need to constantly fight for cleaner water

[Moulin Yarns]

Eyemouth was in the top 10 worst rated and was given a recommendation of no bathing so hopefully you weren't taking a dip there.

Climate change is probably a huge factor but I'm sure more could be done. I'm also sure most water is fine but we need to constantly fight for cleaner water

Where have you read that about Eyemouth?


https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/About-Us/News-and-Views/2022/11/151122-Bathing-Water-SEPA

Scotland’s bathing water quality continues to improve with 38 out of 87 (44%) rated as ‘excellent’ for 2023, according to new figures issued by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA).

It said this is the highest number ever and highlights “sustained improvements in bathing water quality, achieved through partnership projects.”



https://media.sepa.org.uk/statements/2022/sepa-removes-advice-against-bathing-at-eyemouth-15-july.aspx

[Stairway 2 7]

Where have you read that about Eyemouth?


https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/About-Us/News-and-Views/2022/11/151122-Bathing-Water-SEPA

Scotland’s bathing water quality continues to improve with 38 out of 87 (44%) rated as ‘excellent’ for 2023, according to new figures issued by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA).

It said this is the highest number ever and highlights “sustained improvements in bathing water quality, achieved through partnership projects.”



https://media.sepa.org.uk/statements/2022/sepa-removes-advice-against-bathing-at-eyemouth-15-july.aspx


https://theferret.scot/beaches-scotland-pollution-sewage/
Beach name
Eyemouth
Grade
SEPA Water Quality Rating: Poor

https://archive.ph/1PpC4
More than half of Scotland’s most popular beaches have been contaminated with sewage in breach of safety limits this summer, according to the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa).
The worst contamination — reaching more than 50 times the limits — was found in June at Eyemouth in Scottish Borders and at Lower Largo in Fife.
High levels of bacteria were also detected at Ettrick Bay on the Isle of Bute; West Sands at St Andrews; Seafield at Kirkcaldy and Harbour Beach at Kinghorn in Fife; Broad Sands and West Beach, near North Berwick; and Belhaven Beach in Dunbar. Six bathing waters recorded very low levels of pollution.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://theferret.scot/beaches-scotland-pollution-sewage/
Beach name
Eyemouth
Grade
SEPA Water Quality Rating: Poor

https://archive.ph/1PpC4
More than half of Scotland’s most popular beaches have been contaminated with sewage in breach of safety limits this summer, according to the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa).
The worst contamination — reaching more than 50 times the limits — was found in June at Eyemouth in Scottish Borders and at Lower Largo in Fife.
High levels of bacteria were also detected at Ettrick Bay on the Isle of Bute; West Sands at St Andrews; Seafield at Kirkcaldy and Harbour Beach at Kinghorn in Fife; Broad Sands and West Beach, near North Berwick; and Belhaven Beach in Dunbar. Six bathing waters recorded very low levels of pollution.

That's from 2919!!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

That's from 2919!!!!

Failed in 2022 too I'm sure you'll agree that's disgusting, well if the tories were in charge you would

https://www.scotsman.com/health/more-than-half-of-designated-scottish-bathing-waters-breached-sewage-limits-this-summer-3830632

[wookie70]

Failed in 2022 too I'm sure you'll agree that's disgusting, well if the tories were in charge you would

https://www.scotsman.com/health/more-than-half-of-designated-scottish-bathing-waters-breached-sewage-limits-this-summer-3830632

That at least answers my earlier question. This is the sewers not being able to keep pace with the massive amounts of rain we are seeing due to global warming. They overflow and then the beaches end up with the pollution. It will only get worse but the general story is that Scottish water is getting better and we need to find a way to make the sewers cope with the more frequent heavy rains. It seems a very different issue to that in England.

[Moulin Yarns]

Failed in 2022 too I'm sure you'll agree that's disgusting, well if the tories were in charge you would

https://www.scotsman.com/health/more-than-half-of-designated-scottish-bathing-waters-breached-sewage-limits-this-summer-3830632

I still don't see anything saying it was in the 10 worst bathing beaches. And 2022 was a 2 day closer because of a burst pipe.

[wookie70]

The overall picture (https://www2.sepa.org.uk/BathingWaters/Classifications.aspx) across Scotland looks pretty positive and getting better fast (https://media.sepa.org.uk/media-releases/2022/highest-ever-number-of-excellent-scottish-bathing-waters-showcases-success-of-long-term-improvement-projects.aspx)

[Stairway 2 7]

I still don't see anything saying it was in the 10 worst bathing beaches. And 2022 was a 2 day closer because of a burst pipe.

It's in the first link it was in the top 10 lowest rated getting a poor, fisherow was also in the 10 worst

[Just Alf]

The overall picture (https://www2.sepa.org.uk/BathingWaters/Classifications.aspx) across Scotland looks pretty positive.Only 2 "poor"

What is actually 'tested? ... is it the water itself?

I remember as at kid at Kinghorn the harbour beach always seemed to be the place to find stuff washed up. Wonder if its related to the tidal flows... pulling stuff together (and making it harder for any outflows disperse)

[Stairway 2 7]

I still don't see anything saying it was in the 10 worst bathing beaches. And 2022 was a 2 day closer because of a burst pipe.

Failed in 2020 also along with another 30 Scottish beaches that had unsafe water, I'll not be paddling in Eyemouth any time soon
https://archive.ph/6gFJf

[wookie70]

Failed in 2020 also along with another 30 Scottish beaches that had unsafe water, I'll not be paddling in Eyemouth any time soon
https://archive.ph/6gFJf

I think you have to look at water quality over a year rather than after extreme weather. The picture is of ongoing improvement. We really should be delighted and proud with the work that has been done but also ensure that the issues that come with global warming are starting to be addressed so we don't go backwards.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think you have to look at water quality over a year rather than after extreme weather. The picture is of ongoing improvement. We really should be delighted and proud with the work that has been done but also ensure that the issues that come with global warming are starting to be addressed so we don't go backwards.

It failed in 19,20 and 22 can't see 21, all with sewage levels unsafe for bathing. I don't think all can be due to adverse weather. English water companies excuse is climate change and they only dump when water levels are too high. That might be true but investment can sort that.

I don't think things are getting better in 2021 enough sewage for 12,000 swimming pools was released into Scottish water, last year it was 16,000 swimming pools worth.

SEPA aren't forthcoming with the truth it took a FOI from the ferret who have been investigating to find out they only checked the quality of around 40% of water and check less than 10% of sewage outflows.
https://theferret.scot/scotland-behind-england-sewage-leaks/

[Ozyhibby]

Failed in 2020 also along with another 30 Scottish beaches that had unsafe water, I'll not be paddling in Eyemouth any time soon
https://archive.ph/6gFJf

Have zero knowledge of the situation but isn’t Eyemouth pretty close to the border where it’s possible that a private Water company is discharging water? Not saying that’s happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

It failed in 19,20 and 22 can't see 21, all with sewage levels unsafe for bathing. I don't think all can be due to adverse weather. English water companies excuse is climate change and they only dump when water levels are too high. That might be true but investment can sort that.

I don't think things are getting better in 2021 enough sewage for 12,000 swimming pools was released into Scottish water, last year it was 16,000 swimming pools worth.

SEPA aren't forthcoming with the truth it took a FOI from the ferret who have been investigating to find out they only checked the quality of around 40% of water and check less than 10% of sewage outflows.
https://theferret.scot/scotland-behind-england-sewage-leaks/

It didn't fail at at the end of the year figures last year. It may have failed after a heavy rainfall but that is what I am getting at. I'd like to see average levels and see if the situation if improving or otherwise. It looks like things have been improving for a while though and adverse weather is what is the biggest issue left to solve. That and having neighbours that don't care. You can see the readings for Eyemouth and how much they vary result to result. I guess the high figures are after significant rainfall. 400 is the safe number for ecoli and 100 or so for Intestinal enterococci. Most of teh time Eyemouth looks perfectly safe. https://www2.sepa.org.uk/BathingWaters/ViewResults.aspx?id=9334

[Stairway 2 7]

It didn't fail at at the end of the year figures last year. It may have failed after a heavy rainfall but that is what I am getting at. I'd like to see average levels and see if the situation if improving or otherwise. It looks like things have been improving for a while though and adverse weather is what is the biggest issue left to solve. That and having neighbours that don't care. You can see the readings for Eyemouth and how much they vary result to result. I guess the high figures are after significant rainfall. https://www2.sepa.org.uk/BathingWaters/ViewResults.aspx?id=9334

It failed 3 times last year months apart so yes when it's heavy rain, same with England they dump when there is heavy rain that isn't disputed.

It's not improving if 16k swinging pools worth last year compared to 12k the year before.

[Mr Grieves]

Only 2 "poor"

What is actually 'tested? ... is it the water itself?

I remember as at kid at Kinghorn the harbour beach always seemed to be the place to find stuff washed up. Wonder if its related to the tidal flows... pulling stuff ogether (and making it harder for any outflows disperse)

The quality is based on bacteriological testing of the water for E.coli and other faecal indicators. I think they also do DNA testing to determine the source as despite what's been said on this thread, repeatedly, it's not just the 'dumping' of human sewage that causes this. Agricultural runoff (soil from farmland washed by heavy rain into streams/rivers and ultimately, the sea) is a massive contributor.

[Just Alf]

The quality is based on bacteriological testing of the water for E.coli and other faecal indicators. I think they also do DNA testing to determine the source as despite what's been said on this thread, repeatedly, it's not just the 'dumping' of human sewage that causes this. Agricultural runoff (soil from farmland washed by heavy rain into streams/rivers and ultimately, the sea) is a massive contributor.Thanks for that, interesting and makes sense .

[Sylar]

The quality is based on bacteriological testing of the water for E.coli and other faecal indicators. I think they also do DNA testing to determine the source as despite what's been said on this thread, repeatedly, it's not just the 'dumping' of human sewage that causes this. Agricultural runoff (soil from farmland washed by heavy rain into streams/rivers and ultimately, the sea) is a massive contributor.

They also measure for macronutrients (phosphorous, nitrogen, potassium), primarily linked to agricultural runoff - a major source of algal blooms in rivers, lakes and estuarine/coastal waters.

Scotland are actually performing relatively well compared to the rest of Europe, never mind the UK. A robust monitoring programme for tracking events, reasonable regulations that are still being enforced today (our water quality legislation mostly comes from EU policies, so quelle surprise our neighbours down south are disregarding these in a post-Brexit world), and a climate that reduces the need for irrigation (which results in runoff more readily as it saturates the soil artifically quickly compared to rain-fed agriculture, which we primarily use).

This feels a bit too much like work :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gr43dnllko


Further evidence of excellent water quality in scottish waters.

[wookie70]

It failed 3 times last year months apart so yes when it's heavy rain, same with England they dump when there is heavy rain that isn't disputed.

It's not improving if 16k swinging pools worth last year compared to 12k the year before.

That is a single measure though. What I am seeing is water quality over the last 15 years, since they adopted the measurement regime, improving and that is despite climate change. Saying all that we appear to be behind England in terms of monitoring so that needs to improve. Given how important water is to one of Scotland's most famous exports it is pretty important we keep our reputation for clean water in tact. It is also worth saying our waterways are in much better condition than England