Scandalous

[Berwickhibby]

I cannot believe a child rapist is being given community service for this offence https://news.stv.tv/east-central/man-who-raped-13-year-old-girl-in-midlothian-park-handed-community-payback-order-at-glasgow-high-court

[Pretty Boy]

****ing hell.

It sounds like repeated and violent attacks as well. What kind of deterrent is that to either him or other young lads increasingly drawn to the likes of that Tate creature and his misogynistic vitriol?

A country that sees only 1.6% of alleged rapes make it to a courtroom should be absolutely hammering the men who do make it that far and are found guilty. I'm all for rehabilitation and I accept it's better for society if a rapist is given help to emerge from the experience as a better and less dangerous person but there has to be a punishment element as well. Community service for raping a 13 year old on more than one occasion is a scandal.

[Kato]

Going by previous instances like this the guilty party is usually either a toff, a mason or his friends in high places.

Not saying this is the case here but that is a disgrace.

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[hibsbollah]

Donald Findlay defended the case. That is really infuriating, what hope have we got in protecting our young women when this **** happens. I’ve sat with my young family in that park many a time. Outrageous.

[Hibbyradge]

Donald Findlay defended the case. That is really infuriating, what hope have we got in protecting our young women when this **** happens. I’ve sat with my young family in that park many a time. Outrageous.

Findlay says they will appeal the sentence! WTF?

[H18 SFR]

Findlay says they will appeal the sentence! WTF?

When I read that I wondered if there were concerns regarding the Jury’s verdict? Clutching at straws but why such leniency? There simply has to be more to this than meets the eye?

[Paulie Walnuts]

How much weight gets put behind the fact he was 16 himself?

If you’d have asked me without telling me the crime I’d have said I’d suspect 16 year olds would be treated differently to adults, I’ve no idea if that is how it works though?

[Stairway 2 7]

How much weight gets put behind the fact he was 16 himself?

If you’d have asked me without telling me the crime I’d have said I’d suspect 16 year olds would be treated differently to adults, I’ve no idea if that is how it works though?

He was 17. Scottish government has just spent the last few months saying 16 years old is an age to make informed choices. Absolutely brutal that 17 year olds can now think they can rape kids and the punishment if convicted would be community service

The parents of the wee girl must be apoplectic

[wookie70]

That seems a ridiculous sentence. Like others I wonder if there is something not been reported but on the face of it this just adds to the sorry stats around rapes and convictions. ON a separate not it is ludicrous that it takes 4 years to bring this to court

[Pretty Boy]

I also find the judges comment that had the defendant been 25 he could have expected a sentence of 4 or 5 years troubling.

If it was the former then it is highly likely such a person would be back on the streets after 2 years. I know judges are bound by sentencing guidelines but I can't help but think the guidelines could be a whole lot tougher.

I generally believe that we should do what we can to keep people out of prison, in a lot of instances there are far more productive ways of dealing with an individual, particularly if they are not a habitual or long term offender. Rape is such a grave offence and the impact so devastating on so many people that I just can't hold the same view. It's such a violation that I can't accept that a couple of years in jail is punishment enough (or time enough for rehabilitation).

[wookie70]

I also find the judges comment that had the defendant been 25 he could have expected a sentence of 4 or 5 years troubling.

If it was the former then it is highly likely such a person would be back on the streets after 2 years. I know judges are bound by sentencing guidelines but I can't help but think the guidelines could be a whole lot tougher.

I generally believe that we should do what we can to keep people out of prison, in a lot of instances there are far more productive ways of dealing with an individual, particularly if they are not a habitual or long term offender. Rape is such a grave offence and the impact so devastating on so many people that I just can't hold the same view. It's such a violation that I can't accept that a couple of years in jail is punishment enough (or time enough for rehabilitation).

I hold similar views. The sentencing needs looked at and crimes against people, particularly those that are rarely fully recovered from for the victim or survivors should be more severely punished. Crimes against property seem to attract higher sentences and crimes that are against the Establishment and punished at the highest level. If the rapist had stolen a bottle of water during a riot he would have got 6 months. That is simply ridiculous but that is what comes from the establishment writing and applying the law.
https://www.thejournal.ie/student-jailed-for-six-months-for-looting-a-case-of-water-in-london-199256-Aug2011/

[Santa Cruz]

I also find the judges comment that had the defendant been 25 he could have expected a sentence of 4 or 5 years troubling.

If it was the former then it is highly likely such a person would be back on the streets after 2 years. I know judges are bound by sentencing guidelines but I can't help but think the guidelines could be a whole lot tougher.

I generally believe that we should do what we can to keep people out of prison, in a lot of instances there are far more productive ways of dealing with an individual, particularly if they are not a habitual or long term offender. Rape is such a grave offence and the impact so devastating on so many people that I just can't hold the same view. It's such a violation that I can't accept that a couple of years in jail is punishment enough (or time enough for rehabilitation).

New sentencing guidelines for young people. Lady Dorrian video at the bottom explains. Can't begin to understand how this translates into the sentence recieved. Heartbreaking for the girl, her family and all other victims out there suffering in silence, who now will no doubt be put off coming forward to report similar crimes.

https://www.scottishsentencingcouncil.org.uk/sentencing-guidelines/guidelines-in-development/sentencing-young-people-guideline/

[Smartie]

The headline facts / stats sound horrendous, so you’d have to expect that there will be a bit of devil in the detail. We’re not party to an awful lot of the minor details of the case (thankfully).

[Stairway 2 7]

Seems the only mitigating circumstances are he's under 25. Public pressure might win like with Isla Bryson as rape charities among others are furious today.

Notice this article from 2020 saying the push will be for under 25s to stay out prison. Gives young rapists carte balance
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-courts-urged-not-jail-21596669.amp

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/aameranwar/status/1643186972414951426?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Explanation from Anwer.
Sounds like judge has got this wrong and it will be appealed.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

So many questions about this, but apart from everything else, how the hell did he get a KC lawyer to defend him? and why did Donald Finlay defend him? Does he go about doing pro bono work for rapists just for the craic?

Also find it baffling that a 25 year old would only be sentenced to 4-5 years...this must be terrifying for survivors, especially when one bears in mind that folk usually only serve half or two thirds of their sentence.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but the mental well-being of victims must surely be taken into account as well.

[Ozyhibby]

So many questions about this, but apart from everything else, how the hell did he get a KC lawyer to defend him? and why did Donald Finlay defend him? Does he go about doing pro bono work for rapists just for the craic?

Also find it baffling that a 25 year old would only be sentenced to 4-5 years...this must be terrifying for survivors, especially when one bears in mind that folk usually only serve half or two thirds of their sentence.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but the mental well-being of victims must surely be taken into account as well.

This isn’t Donald Finlay’s fault. His job is to defend clients as best he can against the state which wants to imprison them.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Seems the only mitigating circumstances are he's under 25. Public pressure might win like with Isla Bryson as rape charities among others are furious today.

Notice this article from 2020 saying the push will be for under 25s to stay out prison. Gives young rapists carte balance
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-courts-urged-not-jail-21596669.amp

the article doesn't mention rapists specifically...i would have thought it was common sense that perpetrators of serious violent crimes like rape and murder would need to be placed in some kind of secure unit for a significant period, regardless of their age, simply from a public safety point of view.

[AgentDaleCooper]

This isn’t Donald Finlay’s fault. His job is to defend clients as best he can against the state which wants to imprison them.


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he must have cost a fortune though - who is paying for that? was the defendant loaded?

and yes, it's his job, but he can also turn the work down. he's not compelled to defend perpetrators of sexual violence.

[Ozyhibby]

he must have cost a fortune though - who is paying for that? was the defendant loaded?

and yes, it's his job, but he can also turn the work down. he's not compelled to defend perpetrators of sexual violence.

Lawyers judging people guilty before they go to trial? That’s a very slippery slope.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Lawyers judging people guilty before they go to trial? That’s a very slippery slope.


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i get what you're saying, but i'm sure there's plenty of lawyers who have seen a case and gone 'nah, really don't want to try to get that person off'. Donald Findlay probably knows better than anyone, besides the victim and the perpetrator, whether the guy is guilty or not.

what i'm wondering is how the guy was able to get such high level defence, and whether the victim had the same calibre of lawyer arguing their case.

[Ozyhibby]

i get what you're saying, but i'm sure there's plenty of lawyers who have seen a case and gone 'nah, really don't want to try to get that person off'. Donald Findlay probably knows better than anyone, besides the victim and the perpetrator, whether the guy is guilty or not.

what i'm wondering is how the guy was able to get such high level defence, and whether the victim had the same calibre of lawyer arguing their case.

If Findlay behaved like that, juries would then look at high profile defendants and say he must be guilty if Findlay is not defending him?
Everyone is entitled to a defence. Findlay is a defence lawyer. The vast majority of his clients will be guilty. His job is to make very sure the state can prove it before they send them to jail.
As for the victim, she had the full weight of the state behind and it showed because he was convicted.
It’s the judge who has got this wrong. The SG has to take some blame as well. Rapist, murder ours etc should not be part of these new sentencing guidelines, which I’m mostly supportive off. Mostly though, this judge has got it wrong.


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[JeMeSouviens]

So many questions about this, but apart from everything else, how the hell did he get a KC lawyer to defend him? and why did Donald Finlay defend him? Does he go about doing pro bono work for rapists just for the craic?

Also find it baffling that a 25 year old would only be sentenced to 4-5 years...this must be terrifying for survivors, especially when one bears in mind that folk usually only serve half or two thirds of their sentence.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but the mental well-being of victims must surely be taken into account as well.

It won't be pro bono, it'll be legal aid funded.

Every case in the High Court is handled by advocates or solicitor advocates and most of the ones who have been around a while are KCs. I guess most criminal defendants will be on legal aid?

[Paul1642]

Seems the only mitigating circumstances are he's under 25. Public pressure might win like with Isla Bryson as rape charities among others are furious today.

Notice this article from 2020 saying the push will be for under 25s to stay out prison. Gives young rapists carte balance
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-courts-urged-not-jail-21596669.amp

A very frustrating policy for victims of serious crime.

Like many I was a bit daft at times in my late teens and early twenties. Let’s put that down to my “brain being immature”.

I still knew that rape was bloody wrong.

Age is no excuse for me. A 17 who thinks a stranger rape in a park is acceptable is a danger to society and community service is a giant slap in the face for victims of sexual abuse everywhere.

Imagine at 13 years old having the courage to come forward to family and police, provide a statement, having to go through the invasive evidence preserving medicals, stand up in court to testify, experiencing the feeling of relief and justice when a jury find the accused guilty only for the Judge to pull out this disgraceful outcome.

I genuinely can’t think of an example of a more shambolic sentencing in a case where guilt was proved.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He was 17. Scottish government has just spent the last few months saying 16 years old is an age to make informed choices. Absolutely brutal that 17 year olds can now think they can rape kids and the punishment if convicted would be community service

The parents of the wee girl must be apoplectic

Ah ok, I thought he was 16.

As others have said, it seems like an outrageous sentence and it does appear to be age related, I certainly didn’t expect it to be because he was under 25 though, I would have expected it to be because he was under 18.

[Stairway 2 7]

7 years ago but motherwell fan 18 sent to jail for 5 months for setting off a smoke bomb against Hamilton. I read that a lad last year got more community service than Hogg for spitting at the football too

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-soldier-who-sparked-chaos-7294227?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60137866

The 'rehabilitation rather than punishment' approach for under-25s was introduced in Scotland on the basis of 'scientific evidence that the brain is not fully developed below that age'.

[AgentDaleCooper]

It won't be pro bono, it'll be legal aid funded.

Every case in the High Court is handled by advocates or solicitor advocates and most of the ones who have been around a while are KCs. I guess most criminal defendants will be on legal aid?

thanks, that was what i was wondering about :aok: