New job for Tactics Jack

[Winston Ingram]

Head of Youth at Newcastle
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/jack-ross-lands-newcastle-gig-26602406

[Jones28]

Wow, thats a brilliant job for him.

[Lago]

Right on his doorstep, no long distance travelling required.

[Iain G]

Head of Youth at Newcastle
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/jack-ross-lands-newcastle-gig-26602406

Isn't he a built long in the tooth for this? :greengrin

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not all that surprising he’s ended up in a role like this.

He was unlikely to get a 1st team gig at anyone half decent so this is probably a decent route to go down.

[Brightside]

"Tactics Jack". What's all that about?

[blackpoolhibs]

A good manager who's taking a step back, he will come back in a year or two and get another chance at a decent club easily.

[Tyler Durden]

It’s a job to manage and develop coaches. It’s not “Head of Youth”.

And it’s only temporary

[jacomo]

A good manager who's taking a step back, he will come back in a year or two and get another chance at a decent club easily.


His family home is in Northumberland. I wonder if this job works out he may decide to stick at it long term. I imagine the pay will be decent.

[blackpoolhibs]

His family home is in Northumberland. I wonder if this job works out he may decide to stick at it long term. I imagine the pay will be decent.

When they sack Howe, i wonder if Jack would take temporary charge? :greengrin

[jacomo]

It’s a job to manage and develop coaches. It’s not “Head of Youth”.

And it’s only temporary


You’re right! The OP misled us.

Anyway, hopefully it works out for him. If the Saudis follow the Man City model then they will be investing heavily in youth teams and coaching at all levels, so maybe there’s an opportunity to turn this into something more permanent.

[jacomo]

When they sack Howe, i wonder if Jack would take temporary charge? :greengrin


Sheffield Utd get promoted and Heckingbottom and Ross face off against each other in the EPL…

[blackpoolhibs]

Sheffield Utd get promoted and Heckingbottom and Ross face off against each other in the EPL…
:greengrin

[Northernhibee]

Very pleased for him. Let down by Dundee United and deserved better.

[AugustaHibs]

Very pleased for him. Let down by Dundee United and deserved better.

In what way was he let down? They seemed to spend a few quid and have a decent squad on paper.

[Brightside]

It’s a job to manage and develop coaches. It’s not “Head of Youth”.

And it’s only temporary

Yeh - coach education. Something that he is fantastic at.

[Northernhibee]

In what way was he let down? They seemed to spend a few quid and have a decent squad on paper.
If it’s true that a couple of influential players had taken the huff with him, then they should have not played for the club again. It’s not their place to decide how the club is run.

[greenlex]

In what way was he let down? They seemed to spend a few quid and have a decent squad on paper.
Sacked far too early. Just like at Hibs. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Sacked far too early. Just like at Hibs. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

His terrible start looks like being the difference between them being relegated and staying up. I’m not sure that says sacked too early at all.

[B.H.F.C]

Sacked far too early. Just like at Hibs. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

Nae manager is surviving 7-0 and 9-0 in the space of a few weeks

Especially when they’d no won any other league games.

[JimBHibees]

His terrible start looks like being the difference between them being relegated and staying up. I’m not sure that says sacked too early at all.

Only in charge for a handful of games ridiculous decision imo

[MWHIBBIES]

Only in charge for a handful of games ridiculous decision imo

Wouldn't bother. Stubbsy despises Ross.

[Whelahan 1875]

JR was kept in the Hibs job far longer than he should have been, mainly due to the exceptional form of Martin Boyle.

He was unacceptably risk averse and was tactically undone in two major cup games against a one dimensional St Johnstone team.

Hibs were eye bleeding and brutal to watch during much of his tenure.

Dundee Utd. are not the worst team to visit ER this season but they suffered what now appear to have been some mortal blows early in the season, with Jack in charge. Some senior players obviously saw straight through him from the start.

I can't believe any Hibs fan can still be bothered to defend him. We've moved on and for the better.

Aside from all that I wish JR every success in his new role and must admit I found my first ever post to be very therapeutic :agree:

[Brightside]

He got us 3rd. Ergo best manager we have had in recent history.

[MWHIBBIES]

JR was kept in the Hibs job far longer than he should have been, mainly due to the exceptional form of Martin Boyle.

He was unacceptably risk averse and was tactically undone in two major cup games against a one dimensional St Johnstone team.

Hibs were eye bleeding and brutal to watch during much of his tenure.

Dundee Utd. are not the worst team to visit ER this season but they suffered what now appear to have been some mortal blows early in the season, with Jack in charge. Some senior players obviously saw straight through him from the start.

I can't believe any Hibs fan can still be bothered to defend him. We've moved on and for the better.

Aside from all that I wish JR every success in his new role and must admit I found my first ever post to be very therapeutic :agree:

Don't forget the great form of Hanlon, Porteous, Marciano, Nisbet etc. If half the team is keeping him in a job, maybe he's doing something right.

We've moved on to Lee Johnson, who I don't mind actually, but I think I'd take Jack Rosses cup record. Ridiculous to say we've moved on for the better really and use the cups as a reason.

Football really wasn't that bad. Could've been better. I'd happily finish 3rd playing like that though. Plenty great goals and performances.

I can't believe any Hibs fan would be so desperate to **** on a guy who had us 3rd, 4 semis, 2 finals in 2 years as boss.

[MWHIBBIES]

He got us 3rd. Ergo best manager we have had in recent history.

No. While he done well and I liked him, Stubbs is our best manager in recent history by a million billion miles.

[Whelahan 1875]

Don't forget the great form of Hanlon, Porteous, Marciano, Nisbet etc. If half the team is keeping him in a job, maybe he's doing something right.

We've moved on to Lee Johnson, who I don't mind actually, but I think I'd take Jack Rosses cup record. Ridiculous to say we've moved on for the better really and use the cups as a reason.

Football really wasn't that bad. Could've been better. I'd happily finish 3rd playing like that though. Plenty great goals and performances.

I can't believe any Hibs fan would be so desperate to **** on a guy who had us 3rd, 4 semis, 2 finals in 2 years as boss.

I must say, it's a real pleasure being welcomed on to the forum by being told my views are "ridiculous".

I am not ****ing on anyone, just giving an opinion.

[H18 SFR]

What does tactics jack mean?

[bingo70]

Sacked far too early. Just like at Hibs. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

Always annoys me when people give opinions as if they were facts.

I understand why people like Ross, His record on paper was good. I’m on the other side of the argument though and I’m still delighted he left. We were on a downward spiral when he left and even when we were winning season ticket holders weren’t turning up, never mind attracting new paying punters.

I don’t hold any grudges towards him and I’m pleased he’s got this new job. I don’t understand the daft nickname on this thread and although it’s clearly a joke, I don’t get it.

We got Ross’s replacement wrong and that IMO is where we went wrong, not the decision to sack him.

[MWHIBBIES]

I must say, it's a real pleasure being welcomed on to the forum by being told my views are "ridiculous".

I am not ****ing on anyone, just giving an opinion.

And I'm giving my opinion. That's all. Don't take it personally.

[Northernhibee]

I must say, it's a real pleasure being welcomed on to the forum by being told my views are "ridiculous".

I am not ****ing on anyone, just giving an opinion.
And they’re just giving their opinion. It’s what happens on a message board.

For what it’s worth, I thought that although the football wasn’t the best we’ve seen, it clearly wasn’t eye bleeding or tortuous. He knew how to develop the likes of Doig and Nisbet too.

He’s a good coach and manager.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wouldn't bother. Stubbsy despises Ross.

Do I? :faf:

That’s news to me. Didn’t enjoy watching his Hibs team at all but I’m not sure why I would despise him and couldn’t care less how he done at DU other than the fact that him doing so badly there probably removed a team that we would have been expecting to be challenging us for top 6 from the equation. If anything I like him for that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Only in charge for a handful of games ridiculous decision imo

He was but it was quite clearly not getting any better, Infact it somehow kept getting worse.

That start to the season will likely see them end up relegated. Their PPG since he left would have them 10th. It’s the start he made to the season that has killed them. That to me says they made the right call not letting it go on any longer or else they’d likely be completely cut adrift.

Their PPG since he left would have them 10th

[blackpoolhibs]

They changed the manager, the new guy/guys have not managed to make them any better, but it was a good decision to get rid. :faf:

[Paulie Walnuts]

They changed the manager, the new guy/guys have not managed to make them any better, but it was a good decision to get rid. :faf:

They have got better. Their PPG is better since he left going from 0.2 to 0.875 with Liam Fox picking up 0.91. They’ve arrested the horrendous goal difference issue they had under JR as well. They were -16 when he left, losing on average by more than 3 goals a game when he left (that’s ignoring the European games). They are now losing on average by 0.3 goals per game. Those stats are being kind to him as they get even worse when you factor in the European games he got.

By pretty much every measure they’ve got better. They’re still crap but they’re significantly better than they were under JR when they were likely the worst side to ever grace the top flight.

[Brightside]

No. While he done well and I liked him, Stubbs is our best manager in recent history by a million billion miles.

Yes. Stubbs had one cup run. Which massively papered over some very poor results.

[oneone73]

Yes. Stubbs had one cup run. Which massively papered over some very poor results.

Two Cup runs.

[JimBHibees]

He was but it was quite clearly not getting any better, Infact it somehow kept getting worse.

That start to the season will likely see them end up relegated. Their PPG since he left would have them 10th. It’s the start he made to the season that has killed them. That to me says they made the right call not letting it go on any longer or else they’d likely be completely cut adrift.

Their PPG since he left would have them 10th

My view would have been the club should have backed him up until Christmas given the job he did at a Hibs and the Buddies. He also imo should have got longer at Hibs.

[JimBHibees]

Two Cup runs.

Two cup finals and other good runs semi final for example.

[overdrive]

What does tactics jack mean?

I’m guessing a play on Cactus Jack :dunno:

[blackpoolhibs]

My view would have been the club should have backed him up until Christmas given the job he did at a Hibs and the Buddies. He also imo should have got longer at Hibs.

Exactly, he's a good manager and deserved time. Every manager has a bad spell, and it all depends on the hands they are delt, but the throwaway mentality is ingrained now in society, jam must be had yesterday.

[Donegal Hibby]

My view would have been the club should have backed him up until Christmas given the job he did at a Hibs and the Buddies. He also imo should have got longer at Hibs.
Agree , should have been backed him after the job he done at St mirren and Hibs .The season we finished third under him was very good and after more or less his first bad run he's sacked which was admitted to be a mistake . Football manager's really don't get enough time at clubs nowadays when they hit a bad run . When you see how lots wanted LJ sacked a few months ago even though the recruitment let him down had me wondering did that side of things let JR down too . Don't understand what the title of this thread means ' tactics jack ' btw , that some kind of nickname he had?

[MWHIBBIES]

Yes. Stubbs had one cup run. Which massively papered over some very poor results.

Some of Stubbs other poor results

Hibs 2 Hearts 0
Hibs 2 Aberdeen 0
Hibs 4 Rangers 0
Hibs 2 Rangers 1
Hibs 3 rangers 2
Rangers 0 Hibs 2
Rangers 1 Hibs 3

Would give anything to be so poor now. When you consider what he inherited and what he achieved, better than Ross by a long long way. And I genuinely liked Ross and thought he did very well.

Stubbs also signed better than any Hibs manager I can remember. Getting Fyvie, Mcginn, McGeouch, McGregor, Fontaine, Allan and Gray in the championship was exceptional. Hibs legend.

[Paulie Walnuts]

My view would have been the club should have backed him up until Christmas given the job he did at a Hibs and the Buddies. He also imo should have got longer at Hibs.

The way it was going they’d have been relegated by Christmas imo.

They weren’t just getting beat, they were getting leathered and Ross already looked devoid of ideas on how to fix it as they limped from one shocking performance to the next somehow getting worse each game.

[blackpoolhibs]

The way it was going they’d have been relegated by Christmas imo.

They weren’t just getting beat, they were getting leathered and Ross already looked devoid of ideas on how to fix it as they limped from one shocking performance to the next somehow getting worse each game.

Like Lee Johnson without the cup runs then.

[supermcginn]

Very pleased for him. Let down by Dundee United and deserved better.

He was only there two months and suffered two of the worst results in their history. They are going down and he's a big part of the reason why. Hopeless

[Since452]

JR was kept in the Hibs job far longer than he should have been, mainly due to the exceptional form of Martin Boyle.

He was unacceptably risk averse and was tactically undone in two major cup games against a one dimensional St Johnstone team.

Hibs were eye bleeding and brutal to watch during much of his tenure.

Dundee Utd. are not the worst team to visit ER this season but they suffered what now appear to have been some mortal blows early in the season, with Jack in charge. Some senior players obviously saw straight through him from the start.

I can't believe any Hibs fan can still be bothered to defend him. We've moved on and for the better.

Aside from all that I wish JR every success in his new role and must admit I found my first ever post to be very therapeutic :agree:

Ironically it was Martin Boyles pathetic attempt at a penalty at Livingston that helped get him the sack.

[Since452]

Some of Stubbs other poor results

Hibs 2 Hearts 0
Hibs 2 Aberdeen 0
Hibs 4 Rangers 0
Hibs 2 Rangers 1
Hibs 3 rangers 2
Rangers 0 Hibs 2
Rangers 1 Hibs 3

Would give anything to be so poor now. When you consider what he inherited and what he achieved, better than Ross by a long long way. And I genuinely liked Ross and thought he did very well.

Stubbs also signed better than any Hibs manager I can remember. Getting Fyvie, Mcginn, McGeouch, McGregor, Fontaine, Allan and Gray in the championship was exceptional. Hibs legend.

Fun at the time of course but I'd fancy this Hibs team to beat the Rangers side of the Stubbs era. They finished below Hibs and Hearts in the league.

[Brightside]

Some of Stubbs other poor results

Hibs 2 Hearts 0
Hibs 2 Aberdeen 0
Hibs 4 Rangers 0
Hibs 2 Rangers 1
Hibs 3 rangers 2
Rangers 0 Hibs 2
Rangers 1 Hibs 3

Would give anything to be so poor now. When you consider what he inherited and what he achieved, better than Ross by a long long way. And I genuinely liked Ross and thought he did very well.

Stubbs also signed better than any Hibs manager I can remember. Getting Fyvie, Mcginn, McGeouch, McGregor, Fontaine, Allan and Gray in the championship was exceptional. Hibs legend.

Allan and gray in the championship. Aye great days indeed. Ffs

[Pagan Hibernia]

He got us 3rd. Ergo best manager we have had in recent history.

had he worked out how to play against, and beat, that tedious St Johnstone team he’d have gone down as one of the most successful managers in our history, overseeing one of our greatest seasons. 3rd place and a cup double.

but he didn’t, and he hasn’t.

small margins. He did ok.

[MWHIBBIES]

Allan and gray in the championship. Aye great days indeed. Ffs

?

[BoomtownHibees]

Allan and gray in the championship. Aye great days indeed. Ffs

Weird

[Brightside]

Forgive me if I don't find being in the championship with about 7000 home fans a pleasurable experience. We may have won the cup but the league football was in the main awful.

[MWHIBBIES]

Forgive me if I don't find being in the championship with about 7000 home fans a pleasurable experience. We may have won the cup but the league football was in the main awful.

There is no but after Hibs winning the Scottish cup. One of the greatest moments in our history.

Also, take it from someone who actually went to league games every week in the championship, we definitely weren't awful. Stubbs side played good stuff. Awful teams don't achieve what Hibs did. Wish we were still signing guys that good.

[Since90+2]

There is no but after Hibs winning the Scottish cup. One of the greatest moments in our history.

Also, take it from someone who actually went to league games every week in the championship, we definitely weren't awful. Stubbs side played good stuff. Awful teams don't achieve what Hibs did. Wish we were still signing guys that good.

Totally agree. We always played decent football under Stubbs.

[Brightside]

There is no but after Hibs winning the Scottish cup. One of the greatest moments in our history.

Also, take it from someone who actually went to league games every week in the championship, we definitely weren't awful. Stubbs side played good stuff. Awful teams don't achieve what Hibs did. Wish we were still signing guys that good.

I don't think I missed a home game that season. Struggling against the likes of Dumbarton and Morton was awful. Im sure we actually lost about 4 on the trot against very poor part time teams. In fact even Alloa beat us. It was awful.

[B.H.F.C]

I don't think I missed a home game that season. Struggling against the likes of Dumbarton and Morton was awful. Im sure we actually lost about 4 on the trot against very poor part time teams. In fact even Alloa beat us. It was awful.

Winning against Rangers and Hearts was decent though.

If you can’t see the constant progress we made under Stubbs, from a position where he inherited 8 players including Michael Nelson and Tudor-Jones, to signing the lines of McGinn, McGeough, Allan, Fontaine and more, winning the Scottish Cup, putting good foundations down for us to get back up and not just survive but thrive (initially) and remember the not so good bits along the way instead, I find that pretty mental. And I say that as someone who walked out of Alloa and Dumbarton after defeats.

[cabbageandribs1875]

hope the man does well :agree:

[Hiber-nation]

I don't think I missed a home game that season. Struggling against the likes of Dumbarton and Morton was awful. Im sure we actually lost about 4 on the trot against very poor part time teams. In fact even Alloa beat us. It was awful.

Apart from the first couple of months when we really struggled to break teams down, and the lapse around the Alloa away defeat the football was great. Allan Stubbs gave us our football club back, he gave us John McGinn and gave us the Scottish Cup. The way you're talking you'd think Stubbs had taken us down. He managed to get the best out of some uninspiring players and his signings were in the main better than any other Hibs manager in recent history.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Apart from the first couple of months when we really struggled to break teams down, and the lapse around the Alloa away defeat the football was great. Allan Stubbs gave us our football club back, he gave us John McGinn and gave us the Scottish Cup. The way you're talking you'd think Stubbs had taken us down. He managed to get the best out of some uninspiring players and his signings were in the main better than any other Hibs manager in recent history.

:agree:

[Brightside]

Winning against Rangers and Hearts was decent though.

If you can’t see the constant progress we made under Stubbs, from a position where he inherited 8 players including Michael Nelson and Tudor-Jones, to signing the lines of McGinn, McGeough, Allan, Fontaine and more, winning the Scottish Cup, putting good foundations down for us to get back up and not just survive but thrive (initially) and remember the not so good bits along the way instead, I find that pretty mental. And I say that as someone who walked out of Alloa and Dumbarton after defeats.

I agree with most of that. I’m just not agreeing that we played some sort of exciting football under Stubbs. Some of it was really poor some of it was really good.

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't think I missed a home game that season. Struggling against the likes of Dumbarton and Morton was awful. Im sure we actually lost about 4 on the trot against very poor part time teams. In fact even Alloa beat us. It was awful.

Just glass half empty really.

I'll take a Scottish cup next season for a few defeats to pish teams. Great time to be a Hibs fan. Every game was important

[CapitalGreen]

Apart from the first couple of months when we really struggled to break teams down, and the lapse around the Alloa away defeat the football was great. Allan Stubbs gave us our football club back, he gave us John McGinn and gave us the Scottish Cup. The way you're talking you'd think Stubbs had taken us down. He managed to get the best out of some uninspiring players and his signings were in the main better than any other Hibs manager in recent history.

We actually won more games in Stubbs’ first 20 league games (20) then we did in his final 20 league games (8).

I love Stubbs for winning us the cup and he is a great guy but finishing 3rd in the Championship behind Falkirk with a squad that included McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Cummings, Stokes, McGregor etc is awful.

[The Modfather]

We actually won more games in Stubbs’ first 20 league games (20) then we did in his final 20 league games (8).

I love Stubbs for winning us the cup and he is a great guy but finishing 3rd in the Championship behind Falkirk with a squad that included McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Cummings, Stokes, McGregor etc is awful.

There was some mitigation for that with the two cup runs though. Albeit it doesn’t fully mitigate our failings in the league or playoffs. Falkirk were to Stubbs what St Johnstone were to Ross.

I thought the time was up with Stubbs and we needed freshening up when he left. His cup win is a legendary and an unrivalled legacy. However I wasn’t always a fan of his 442 diamond as we often had no width and struggled to break teams down. Apart from the cup win of course, for me, what sets Stubbs apart from most other managers is the core of a team many managers after him still relied upon.

[MWHIBBIES]

We actually won more games in Stubbs’ first 20 league games (20) then we did in his final 20 league games (8).

I love Stubbs for winning us the cup and he is a great guy but finishing 3rd in the Championship behind Falkirk with a squad that included McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Cummings, Stokes, McGregor etc is awful.

McGeouch and Fyvie missed months. So did Hanlon who was vital. We had a horror run with those guys out. Had they not been, we probably win the league tbh. Stubbs made mistakes but winning the cup erases everything. He gave us Hibs back.

[WeeRussell]

We actually won more games in Stubbs’ first 20 league games (20) then we did in his final 20 league games (8).

I love Stubbs for winning us the cup and he is a great guy but finishing 3rd in the Championship behind Falkirk with a squad that included McGinn, McGeouch, Fyvie, Cummings, Stokes, McGregor etc is awful.

Every one of them bar Cummings signed by Stubbs, by the way.

[Smartie]

There was some mitigation for that with the two cup runs though. Albeit it doesn’t fully mitigate our failings in the league or playoffs. Falkirk were to Stubbs what St Johnstone were to Ross.

I thought the time was up with Stubbs and we needed freshening up when he left. His cup win is a legendary and an unrivalled legacy. However I wasn’t always a fan of his 442 diamond as we often had no width and struggled to break teams down. Apart from the cup win of course, for me, what sets Stubbs apart from most other managers is the core of a team many managers after him still relied upon.

I quite liked his diamond formation.

It wasn’t perfect, for exactly the reason you mention, but it was a solution to a problem. He’d gone 451 early in his first season and it didn’t look great at all with our players. The diamond got 2 strikers on the park and Scott Allan into his best role, as did the 352 he sometimes went for (and sometimes didn’t have the CH’s for).

So whilst it sometimes wasn’t perfect, it was a means to an end. To be quite honest, I’d have reached for it at times since then too. Might even have been a better option on Saturday?

[J-C]

Loved Stubbs and the team generally played well, he just could figure out how to beat a 10 man defence, a bit like Ross couldn't figure out how to beat a stubborn defensive St Johnstone.

[CapitalGreen]

Every one of them bar Cummings signed by Stubbs, by the way.

Which makes it even more frustrating that he couldn’t get them to perform consistently in the league. If he was working with a bunch of players that he’d inherited, the performance in the league during his 2nd season would have been more acceptable.

[MWHIBBIES]

Which makes it even more frustrating that he couldn’t get them to perform consistently in the league. If he was working with a bunch of players that he’d inherited, the performance in the league during his 2nd season would have been more acceptable.

We performed consistently in the league, though. We had a bad run of 5 losses in 6 games. If we'd won those, we won the league. Otherwise we matched Rangers.

Those games coincided with injury and some dreadful moments. Red card and penalty not given Vs Morton. Cummings miss at raith etc. Alloa goal probably not over the line.

A bit of a deeper squad, especially in midfield, and maybe only 1 of Fyvie/McGeouch being out and we're laughing.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

It's only a matter of time before Ross gets another go at being a Manager in the lower reaches of the English leagues. If Gary Caldwell can get a job at Exeter City after what he achieved at Partick, it would seem that job prospects are based on what you say that you will do, more than point out what you have done.

[Brightside]

McGeouch and Fyvie missed months. So did Hanlon who was vital. We had a horror run with those guys out. Had they not been, we probably win the league tbh. Stubbs made mistakes but winning the cup erases everything. He gave us Hibs back.

Hibs never left us. Just some people left Hibs.

[CapitalGreen]

We performed consistently in the league, though. We had a bad run of 5 losses in 6 games. If we'd won those, we won the league. Otherwise we matched Rangers.

Those games coincided with injury and some dreadful moments. Red card and penalty not given Vs Morton. Cummings miss at raith etc. Alloa goal probably not over the line.

A bit of a deeper squad, especially in midfield, and maybe only 1 of Fyvie/McGeouch being out and we're laughing.

26642

This is the squad that lost to Morton 0-3 at home. Losing with that team by that scoreline can’t simply be put down to injuries or bad luck. The fact you are highlighting individual moments that cost us points highlights the key issue with Stubbs league management, we just weren’t ruthless enough. Hearts and Rangers title winning teams had moments go against them too but they were putting several goals past their opponents most weeks so it didn’t cost them. Those teams won the league scoring 96 goals and 88 goals respectively while in the 2nd Championship season we only scored 59, 2 less than Falkirk.

[Brightside]

26642

This is the squad that lost to Morton 0-3 at home. Losing with that team by that scoreline can’t simply be put down to injuries or bad luck. The fact you are highlighting individual moments that cost us points highlights the key issue with Stubbs league management, we just weren’t ruthless enough. Hearts and Rangers title winning teams had moments go against them too but they were putting several goals past their opponents most weeks so it didn’t cost them. Those teams won the league scoring 96 goals and 88 goals respectively while in the 2nd Championship season we only scored 59, 2 less than Falkirk.

Spot on. Everything points to us massively under performing in what was a very poor league. We struggled against 2nd level football teams, and as others have pointed out looks at the players we had in that squad. That's a squad that should be top 4/5 in the prem. I really liked Stubbs as a person, and his back room staff, but the cup win totally covered up poor form in a poor league. Jack Ross was a better manager for us than Stubbs, and I get that some will always disagree with me on that, as some would much rather win a cup than be successful in the league. The league is what sustains us as a club. Cup Wins are just limited injections of fortune that quickly drift away if we go on a poor run in the leagues.

[Hiber-nation]

Spot on. Everything points to us massively under performing in what was a very poor league. We struggled against 2nd level football teams, and as others have pointed out looks at the players we had in that squad. That's a squad that should be top 4/5 in the prem. I really liked Stubbs as a person, and his back room staff, but the cup win totally covered up poor form in a poor league. Jack Ross was a better manager for us than Stubbs, and I get that some will always disagree with me on that, as some would much rather win a cup than be successful in the league. The league is what sustains us as a club. Cup Wins are just limited injections of fortune that quickly drift away if we go on a poor run in the leagues.

Remember the tail end of JR's reign? The place was half empty, the football was abysmal, it was absolutely grim. Yeah he maybe deserved another window but you can't just ignore the mess we were in.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Spot on. Everything points to us massively under performing in what was a very poor league. We struggled against 2nd level football teams, and as others have pointed out looks at the players we had in that squad. That's a squad that should be top 4/5 in the prem. I really liked Stubbs as a person, and his back room staff, but the cup win totally covered up poor form in a poor league. Jack Ross was a better manager for us than Stubbs, and I get that some will always disagree with me on that, as some would much rather win a cup than be successful in the league. The league is what sustains us as a club. Cup Wins are just limited injections of fortune that quickly drift away if we go on a poor run in the leagues.

The league sustains us? I’d be willing to bet on our cup win sustaining us more than what a 7th place finish, a 3rd place finish and getting binned in 7th place has sustained us combined.

Winning the cup has put thousands onto our gate every home game for 7 years now so I’m not sure how you can claim it quickly drifts away. We’ve not had anything close to the crowds like we had pre cup win since. Take the Morton game that’s being discussed for example. 8655 fans in attendance for a league game. We regularly had even less than that and pretty much only got into 5 figures for Rangers and Hearts games where we’d get about 14k. Saturdays game V Motherwell had 16598 people at the game.

Finishing third done absolutely nothing other than get us a little bit extra prize money 1 season and a token amount from 1 European game where we were comfortably beaten. His other two seasons the less said about them the better with us being bottom 6 in his first season and him being punted with us again in the bottom 6.

[Weir07]

The Stubbs era was up there with my favourite times watching Hibs, even though we were in the Championship. I've been a regular since about '85 and I'd say Miller's team with Wright, Jackson and O'Neill, McLeish's team with Sauzee, Latapay and co plus Mowbray's side are the only other times that I had a consistently enjoyable time. Which I suppose is a bit of a damning indictment of Hibs!

If people want to pull at threads, then that's up to them but competing with Rangers and Hearts, turning over Premiership sides in cups plus a final and a cup win is good enough for me!

[Smartie]

26642

This is the squad that lost to Morton 0-3 at home. Losing with that team by that scoreline can’t simply be put down to injuries or bad luck. The fact you are highlighting individual moments that cost us points highlights the key issue with Stubbs league management, we just weren’t ruthless enough. Hearts and Rangers title winning teams had moments go against them too but they were putting several goals past their opponents most weeks so it didn’t cost them. Those teams won the league scoring 96 goals and 88 goals respectively while in the 2nd Championship season we only scored 59, 2 less than Falkirk.

Not saying we were great but I remember thinking Duffy and Morton played a great game against us that night.

They defended well when they had to (for much of the game) and used Bobby Barr’s pace out wide to break on us when they got the chance.

It was a cracking counter attacking performance from the away team. They’d sussed that whilst we had some good players and strengths, we also had weaknesses and they beat us all ends up, fair and square.

[Brightside]

The league sustains us? I’d be willing to bet on our cup win sustaining us more than what a 7th place finish, a 3rd place finish and getting binned in 7th place has sustained us combined.

Winning the cup has put thousands onto our gate every home game for 7 years now so I’m not sure how you can claim it quickly drifts away. We’ve not had anything close to the crowds like we had pre cup win since. Finishing third done absolutely nothing other than get us a little bit extra prize money 1 season and a token amount from 1 European game where we were comfortably beaten. His other two seasons the less said about them the better with us being bottom 6 in his first season and him being punted with us again in the bottom 6.

So you think people are going to watch Hibs right now because we won a cup in 2016? You don't think coming 3rd helped that?

[Brightside]

Remember the tail end of JR's reign? The place was half empty, the football was abysmal, it was absolutely grim. Yeah he maybe deserved another window but you can't just ignore the mess we were in.

Less people attended after he left. Just over 15000 when Jack was there, just over 13000 when Maloney was there.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So you think people are going to watch Hibs right now because we won a cup in 2016? You don't think coming 3rd helped that?

Yes, that’s exactly what I think.

The crowds increased after we won the cup. They didn’t really move when we finished third and they haven’t really moved since.

You’re kidding yourself on if you think we get the crowds we do now because of a lockdown 3rd place rather than every Hibs fans greatest moment watching us winning the Scottish Cup.

[Since452]

I liked Stubbs and on the whole i enjoyed his time at the club. Even weirdly enjoyed the championship as it was just a bit different. He had some shocking results though and i can't help but feel he got off pretty lightly compared to Jack Ross and other managers. Is it because expectations were lower under Stubbs?

Imagine the meltdown if Ross lost a cup final to Ross County. He was hounded for losing one to St Johnstone who'd already won a trophy that season and who'd just knocked out a Rangers team that went unbeaten all season, at Ibrox.

They both got us to two cup finals. The Rangers semi under Ross is one of my all time favorite games. Jack wasn't given the chance to lead us in what i think was a winnable final against Celtic. Will never get my head around that decision by Ron.

Stubbs went from zero to hero in 95 minutes in May 2016. Could have easily been emptied had he lost that game. Similarly Ross was 90 minutes away from being arguably the greatest Hibs manager of all time. Very fine margins.

In my opinion both are up there as good Hibs managers. Liked them both.

[Brightside]

Yes, that’s exactly what I think.

The crowds increased after we won the cup. They didn’t really move when we finished third and they haven’t really moved since.

You’re kidding yourself on if you think we get the crowds we do now because of a lockdown 3rd place rather than every Hibs fans greatest moment watching us winning the Scottish Cup.

Crowds are based on current form. Like Maloney if LJ takes us into the bottom 6 again the crowds will drop off once more. I'm confident if we had invested in Jack Ross like we have with LJ we would be comfortable in top 4 and pushing top3.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Crowds are based on current form. Like Maloney if LJ takes us into the bottom 6 again the crowds will drop off once more. I'm confident if we had invested in Jack Ross like we have with LJ we would be comfortable in top 4 and pushing top3.

No, they’re not based on current form, hence why they’ve remained high for several years now whilst we’ve been pish.

You’ve also suggested there was 13k attending under Maloney. That happened once where we had 13227. You’ve failed to point out it happened 3 times under Jack Ross that season with us having 13431, 13501 and 13263 under JR, funnily enough with most of that coming at the start of the season after his third place finish.

Maloneys average crowd was almost bang on 16k. JRs that season was 15056 if you take out the games at the start where covid messed with attendances. Maloney didn’t take our crowds down. So yeah, I think it’s safe to say finishing third didn’t put our attendances up at all, never mind up like winning the cup did. Winning the cup put thousands back into the habit/gave them the desire to watch Hibs again. Finishing third didnt.

[Brightside]

Lee Johnson win percentage is 40% this year. Jack Ross was 43% in the year he was fired (54 in the year we were 3rd) Maloney was in the 30s as was David Gray.

[SickBoy32]

Crowds are based on current form. Like Maloney if LJ takes us into the bottom 6 again the crowds will drop off once more. I'm confident if we had invested in Jack Ross like we have with LJ we would be comfortable in top 4 and pushing top3.

Your posts on this thread are some of the most bizarre I've ever read on this site !!!

Trying to dismiss and belittle Stubbs legendary achievement because he never won the league - bash on :aok:

Guy was an outstanding manager for us, and to try and pick holes in his legacy as we got beat from Alloa and Morton - honestly who gives a ****? Nobody will remember them in the years to come, what will be remembered is us being in with a credible shout of a double / treble.

The SC win is also the reason for our current high level of STs - nothing to do with a 3rd place which we watched from the couch (and I liked JR FWIW - got a very raw deal from the Hibs hierarchy)

In fact, after writing the above - I'd give Stubbs the job again once LJ is inevitably sacked ! Was a fantastic time to follow the club :gwa:

[Brightside]

Your posts on this thread are some of the most bizarre I've ever read on this site !!!

Trying to dismiss and belittle Stubbs legendary achievement because he never won the league - bash on :aok:

Guy was an outstanding manager for us, and to try and pick holes in his legacy as we got beat from Alloa and Morton - honestly who gives a ****? Nobody will remember them in the years to come, what will be remembered is us being in with a credible shout of a double / treble.

The SC win is also the reason for our current high level of STs - nothing to do with a 3rd place which we watched from the couch (and I liked JR FWIW - got a very raw deal from the Hibs hierarchy)

In fact, after writing the above - I'd give Stubbs the job again once LJ is inevitably sacked ! Was a fantastic time to follow the club :gwa:

Its not bizarre to use logic, and its not picking holes to say he had bad league campaigns. He DID. He won the cup and that was amazing but he was a poor league manager for us. That's not belittling anyone.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Its not bizarre to use logic, and its not picking holes to say he had bad league campaigns. He DID. He won the cup and that was amazing but he was a poor league manager for us. That's not belittling anyone.

Jack Ross had us bottom six in two of the three seasons he was here. Two poor league campaigns, the latter one lead to him getting sacked.

[Smartie]

I liked Stubbs and on the whole i enjoyed his time at the club. Even weirdly enjoyed the championship as it was just a bit different. He had some shocking results though and i can't help but feel he got off pretty lightly compared to Jack Ross and other managers. Is it because expectations were lower under Stubbs?

Imagine the meltdown if Ross lost a cup final to Ross County. He was hounded for losing one to St Johnstone who'd already won a trophy that season and who'd just knocked out a Rangers team that went unbeaten all season, at Ibrox.

They both got us to two cup finals. The Rangers semi under Ross is one of my all time favorite games. Jack wasn't given the chance to lead us in what i think was a winnable final against Celtic. Will never get my head around that decision by Ron.

In my opinion both are up there as good Hibs managers. Liked them both.

I liked the Championship - in the sense that I was desperate to get out of it.

It felt like every game was important, with little room to drop points if we were to get out of that league, so the wins were sweet and it stung every time we dropped points.

The cup runs were superb under Stubbs.

By comparison it often feels a bit “meh” where we are now. Win, lose or draw we’re not going to win the league or get relegated. European qualification would be great (and I get very into the European games and get pissed off when we’re inevitably nowhere near ready for them) but the edge just isn’t there.

[SickBoy32]

Its not bizarre to use logic, and its not picking holes to say he had bad league campaigns. He DID. He won the cup and that was amazing but he was a poor league manager for us. That's not belittling anyone.

What's your logic like? Didn't win the league, lost a few games = bad manager?

First season he finished above the hun, whilst still getting the squad sorted out from the bare bones he inherited.

Second season, he had us in both domestic cup finals FFS, from the 2nd tier?! Does that not count as a mitigating factor in your analysis as a 'poor league manager'

Geez peace man - a truly bizarre outlook from yourself

We're now lumbered with a poor league manager and a dreadful cup manager, for context.

[SickBoy32]

I liked the Championship - in the sense that I was desperate to get out of it.

It felt like every game was important, with little room to drop points if we were to get out of that league, so the wins were sweet and it stung every time we dropped points.

The cup runs were superb under Stubbs.

By comparison it often feels a bit “meh” where we are now. Win, lose or draw we’re not going to win the league or get relegated. European qualification would be great (and I get very into the European games and get pissed off when we’re inevitably nowhere near ready for them) but the edge just isn’t there.

Agree entirely.

The meh feeling is certainly not helped by us limping out of the only 2 comps we can actually win, a massive black mark against the manager / current squad that I struggle to shake

[Brightside]

What's your logic like? Didn't win the league, lost a few games = bad manager?

First season he finished above the hun, whilst still getting the squad sorted out from the bare bones he inherited.

Second season, he had us in both domestic cup finals FFS, from the 2nd tier?! Does that not count as a mitigating factor in your analysis as a 'poor league manager'

Geez peace man - a truly bizarre outlook from yourself

We're now lumbered with a poor league manager and a dreadful cup manager, for context.

We were in the 2nd tier. Rangers were awful. Any position in the league above is better than 2nd in a Championship.

[Brightside]

Agree entirely.

The meh feeling is certainly not helped by us limping out of the only 2 comps we can actually win, a massive black mark against the manager / current squad that I struggle to shake

Well if we are lucky we might get relegated again. :confused:

[Since452]

Jack Ross had us bottom six in two of the three seasons he was here. Two poor league campaigns, the latter one lead to him getting sacked.

Only bottom six in first season due to PPG when they stopped the season due to Covid. We were sitting 6th at the time.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Only bottom six in first season due to PPG when they stopped the season due to Covid. We were sitting 6th at the time.

Still bottom 6 though, isn’t it?

He took us over in 8th and we finished in 7th despite having 18 league games out of 30 in charge. He had the majority of the season to have us higher up the league but he didn’t and we ended up where we deserved to be.

We all laughed hysterically at Hearts for claiming they were unfairly demoted on a PPG basis. It was the right call at the time and that goes for the whole league, not just Hearts.

[SickBoy32]

We were in the 2nd tier. Rangers were awful. Any position in the league above is better than 2nd in a Championship.

So if I'm understanding your 'logic' correctly, you prefer this season - and last season, to the 15/16 campaign?

Because a dull as **** 6th / 7th in the SPL is better than the drama, disappointment, excitement and eventually utter glory we witnessed 15/16

:blah: slaver

[SickBoy32]

Well if we are lucky we might get relegated again. :confused:

Nah if we're lucky, our hapless Execs might realise we need to empty our current manager - who incidentally, has a worse cup record than Maloney or even Cathro !

We want our Stubbsy back

[Since452]

Nah if we're lucky, our hapless Execs might realise we need to empty our current manager - who incidentally, has a worse cup record than Maloney or even Cathro !

We want our Stubbsy back

Not sure if you're being serious or not but Stubbs back would be a disaster. It's a different club with different people behind the scenes now. He'd also need Doolan and Taff with him. The Stubbs ship has well and truly sailed. Would rather just keep his final game as a nice memory.

[J-C]

Not saying we were great but I remember thinking Duffy and Morton played a great game against us that night.

They defended well when they had to (for much of the game) and used Bobby Barr’s pace out wide to break on us when they got the chance.

It was a cracking counter attacking performance from the away team. They’d sussed that whilst we had some good players and strengths, we also had weaknesses and they beat us all ends up, fair and square.

The diamond worked well but didn't work against stubborn teams as we had no width to stretch teams, hence we did well against Rangers, Hearts and other Premiership teams as they were more open. Stubbs didn't have a plan B for they defensive teams and why we dropped points regularly against them.

[Brightside]

So if I'm understanding your 'logic' correctly, you prefer this season - and last season, to the 15/16 campaign?

Because a dull as **** 6th / 7th in the SPL is better than the drama, disappointment, excitement and eventually utter glory we witnessed 15/16

:blah: slaver

See now you are just getting personal. Being the top league will always be better than being in the Championship. Winning the Cup was amazing.

[Paulie Walnuts]

See now you are just getting personal. Being the top league will always be better than being in the Championship. Winning the Cup was amazing.

To be fair they have a point regarding your logic.

If it’s as simple as being in the top tier regardless of position instantly makes a season better than being in the Championship you must have preferred last season for example to the 15/16 season when we won the cup, beat Hearts, came back from 2-0 down at Tynecastle with 10 minutes to go, beat Rangers in the league a couple of times, beat Dundee United in a dramatic shootout at Hampden etc.

[Brightside]

To be fair they have a point regarding your logic.

If it’s as simple as being in the top tier regardless of position instantly makes a season better than being in the Championship you must have preferred last season for example to the 15/16 season when we won the cup, beat Hearts, came back from 2-0 down at Tynecastle with 10 minutes to go, beat Rangers in the league a couple of times, beat Dundee United in a dramatic shootout at Hampden etc.


I've already said we had a good cup run. It was amazing. But playing in the Prem is simply much better than playing in the championship.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I've already said we had a good cup run. It was amazing. But playing in the Prem is simply much better than playing in the championship.

Yeah but we didn’t just compete in the Premiership, we also competed in cups going as far as the small matter of actually winning one that we hadn’t won for 114 years.

Give me that over ‘any position in the Premiership is better’ any day of the week.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yeah but we didn’t just compete in the Premiership, we also competed in cups going as far as the small matter of actually winning one that we hadn’t won for 114 years.

Give me that over ‘any position in the Premiership is better’ any day of the week.

Correct.

[Since452]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but the cup runs Stubbs had and the teams we beat suggested he should have done a lot better in the league. Regardless of how many games we had to play, finishing behind Falkirk and losing to them in the playoffs was an embarrassment.

[Brightside]

So you'd rather be in the championship? That's just madness.

[WeeRussell]

Are people genuinely suggesting Stubbs’ team wasn’t good to watch?

We haven’t played near as good football since he left, including the mythical great stuff we displayed under Lennon (okay, we had a few decent games with the midfield he inherited).

The fact it was in the championship doesn’t eliminate that. And it was enjoyable going to Easter road bar a few hiccups along the way.

It’s a shame he didn’t stick around to have a go at the premiership as he was undoubtedly going to get us promoted following the cup win.

[Brightside]

Are people genuinely suggesting Stubbs’ team wasn’t good to watch?

We haven’t played near as good football since he left, including the mythical great stuff we displayed under Lennon (okay, we had a few decent games with the midfield he inherited).

The fact it was in the championship doesn’t eliminate that. And it was enjoyable going to Easter road bar a few hiccups along the way.

It’s a shame he didn’t stick around to have a go at the premiership as he was undoubtedly going to get us promoted following the cup win.

For starts I didn't say they were poor to watch. But we did perform badly over the course of those 2 seasons. If we put the current squad into the championship and we win 70% of our games are we suddenly a much better team?

[bingo70]

For starts I didn't say they were poor to watch. But we did perform badly over the course of those 2 seasons. If we put the current squad into the championship and we win 70% of our games are we suddenly a much better team?

I think people need to recognise there’s no right or wrong answer here. You are perfectly entitled to prefer Ross’s time in charge and others can prefer Stubbs time in the championship because of what we achieved at the end of it.

[CapitalGreen]

Are people genuinely suggesting Stubbs’ team wasn’t good to watch?

We haven’t played near as good football since he left, including the mythical great stuff we displayed under Lennon (okay, we had a few decent games with the midfield he inherited).

The fact it was in the championship doesn’t eliminate that. And it was enjoyable going to Easter road bar a few hiccups along the way.

It’s a shame he didn’t stick around to have a go at the premiership as he was undoubtedly going to get us promoted following the cup win.

No, people are suggesting he wasn’t a good league game manager. We arguably on paper had the 4th best squad in the country but finished 3rd in the Championship behind Falkirk. His tactics worked well against opponents who played expansive football but without Scott Allan he struggled against team’s who sat in and countered.

[Billy Whizz]

Does anyone think we might have won the League Cup final v Celtic, if JR was still in place

[CapitalGreen]

Does anyone think we might have won the League Cup final v Celtic, if JR was still in place

No, Postecoglu’s team tore us apart within half an hour during JR’s final meeting with Celtic.

[Smartie]

So you'd rather be in the championship? That's just madness.

I certainly wouldn't rather be in the Championship.

But there's something about the desperate scrap to get out of it that's engaging.

I probably prefer a relegation scrap to being told I should be excited about "making top six".

Just from an interest point of view.



Back to the subject of managers though - as a rule, I'm ridiculously patient with them. They often get the blame when other people are culpable. I'd probably come closer to losing patience with Stubbs during that season than I have come with other much less celebrated Hibs managers. Remember, at the time we didn't know we were going to win the cup and it looked like we were making a pig's ear of ANOTHER attempt to get promoted and facing an unpalatable third year in the Championship.

Obviously the Scottish Cup win changed all of that but I'm not going to rewrite my own opinions retrospectively to make out that I was in some way right. I think it might have been when we'd dropped points at Starks Park and Cummings missed a sitter that I was getting to the "that's enough" stage - a stage that out of all the managers Hibs have had, I've only reached with Miller and Calderwood.

[matty_f]

I think people need to recognise there’s no right or wrong answer here. You are perfectly entitled to prefer Ross’s time in charge and others can prefer Stubbs time in the championship because of what we achieved at the end of it.

Are you new here???

[Brightside]

Are you new here???

It feels like I've just wasted the morning. :greengrin

[B.H.F.C]

Does anyone think we might have won the League Cup final v Celtic, if JR was still in place

Don’t think we would have done too much different with him in charge to what we did. Irrespective of who was in charge, still look at that day as a big missed opportunity. Game went how we needed it to go to win, losing the goal right from kick off was something no manager could have helped prevent.

[bingo70]

Are you new here???

Has anybody mentioned that Jack Ross didn’t win enough big games yet?

[blackpoolhibs]

Of course being in the top league is better than being in the championship, we had 3 years in it and it was mainly sheite bar winning the cup.

We might have won a few games against the huns and mini huns, but in the main it was just boring games against teams with little ability.

Although we made very hard work at times against some of them.

Christ if you think this place was bad on Saturday, have a search for the Alloa game or a few of the other defeats in the champioship. :faf:

[Paulie Walnuts]

Of course being in the top league is better than being in the championship, we had 3 years in it and it was mainly sheite bar winning the cup.

We might have won a few games against the huns and mini huns, but in the main it was just boring games against teams with little ability.

Although we made very hard work at times against some of them.

Christ if you think this place was bad on Saturday, have a search for the Alloa game or a few of the other defeats in the champioship. :faf:

Yeah but the debate really stemmed from this comment:

“ Jack Ross was a better manager for us than Stubbs, and I get that some will always disagree with me on that, as some would much rather win a cup than be successful in the league.”

Which suggests that finishing third was better than winning the cup. Nobody has suggested that the Championship is a better league to be in, people have suggested winning a cup and being in the Championship is better than finishing ‘anywhere in the top flight’ though as was also suggested. It’s even better than third and it would be even better than second.

[Since452]

Does anyone think we might have won the League Cup final v Celtic, if JR was still in place

Yes. We could/should have taken it to extra time with SDG in charge. Celtic were beatable that day. A bizarre decision by Ron that will annoy me forever.

[jacomo]

No, Postecoglu’s team tore us apart within half an hour during JR’s final meeting with Celtic.


Denying him the chance to make amends, having got us to the final, is not a decision I will ever reconcile myself to.

We had a slim chance in that cup final of course, but sacking Jack the week before basically chucked that away.

[Glory Lurker]

Oh God. Not all this again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Does anyone think we might have won the League Cup final v Celtic, if JR was still in place

Nope. They gave us an absolute hiding a few weeks prior at Easter Road in one of the most one sided games I’ve seen. JR also had a really poor record against them. If anything I’d suspect we wouldn’t have been as close.

[bingo70]

Nope. They gave us an absolute hiding a few weeks prior at Easter Road in one of the most one sided games I’ve seen. JR also had a really poor record against them. If anything I’d suspect we wouldn’t have been as close.

Couldn’t agree more.

If he never managed to work out how to lay a glove on St Johnstone in these games I think the idea that he could have turned it around against Celtic is pie in the sky stuff.

I do get the argument that he deserves the chance to find out having got us there, I just disagree with it.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Couldn’t agree more.

If he never managed to work out how to lay a glove on St Johnstone in these games I think the idea that he could have turned it around against Celtic is pie in the sky stuff.

I do get the argument that he deserves the chance to find out having got us there, I just disagree with it.

Could equally argue he turned over rangers in the semi which is a closer challenge to Celtic than St Johnstone the previous season.

[MWHIBBIES]

Couldn’t agree more.

If he never managed to work out how to lay a glove on St Johnstone in these games I think the idea that he could have turned it around against Celtic is pie in the sky stuff.

I do get the argument that he deserves the chance to find out having got us there, I just disagree with it.

We beat Rangers a month before with him in charge with the odds even further stacked against us due to COVID outbreak.

[bingo70]

We beat Rangers a month before with him in charge with the odds even further stacked against us due to COVID outbreak.

I don’t think the odds were further stacked against us then. While it’s easy to lump rangers and Celtic together as two cheeks of the same arse, Celtic were miles better than Rangers. Rangers were also on a poor run at the time and were vulnerable, they’d recently sacked Gerard due to the form they were on.

It was a fantastic night and a great performance so I don’t want to take anything away from that, it would have taken a bigger effort to beat Celtic in the final though.

[Since452]

Jack Ross emptied Rangers in the semi against all the odds. The odds were so heavily against us many Hibs fans didn't bother going. There would have been a belief in the group that we could have done the same to Celtic in the final. As it was we still ran them close with SDG in charge. An opportunity missed!

[Alex Trager]

I don’t think the odds were further stacked against us then. While it’s easy to lump rangers and Celtic together as two cheeks of the same arse, Celtic were miles better than Rangers. Rangers were also on a poor run at the time and were vulnerable, they’d recently sacked Gerard due to the form they were on.

It was a fantastic night and a great performance so I don’t want to take anything away from that, it would have taken a bigger effort to beat Celtic in the final though.

Gerrard left for Villa he wasn’t sacked. I’m also not sure they were on a bad run, could be wrong ofc.

I agree re Celtic though

[MWHIBBIES]

I don’t think the odds were further stacked against us then. While it’s easy to lump rangers and Celtic together as two cheeks of the same arse, Celtic were miles better than Rangers. Rangers were also on a poor run at the time and were vulnerable, they’d recently sacked Gerard due to the form they were on.

It was a fantastic night and a great performance so I don’t want to take anything away from that, it would have taken a bigger effort to beat Celtic in the final though.

Rangers were 4 points clear at the top of the league. Gerrard left for a huge job in England.

[JamesHFC]

We would probably be where Dundee Utd are if he was still in charge. Complete bottle job.

[matty_f]

Has anybody mentioned that Jack Ross didn’t win enough big games yet?

:faf: I hope they do so I can get them to define what a big game is. That'll be a lot of fun.

[Brightside]

Always very well dressed.