Stevie Clarke - best Scotland Manager since...............

[theonlywayisup]

What a brilliant job Stevie Clarke has done with Scotland! Qualified for first major competition in over 20 years, promotion to the Nations League Group A and now just beaten one of the top sides at Hampden last night.

So the question is who would you compare him against and has yet to surpass.

My thoughts were Alex McCleish, who had a win record of 2.1 points per game, 70% win rate in his 10 games managing Scotland, including defeating France in Paris. He's just behind Alex in my opinion.

Excluding those who were only manager for 1-2 games and the "selection committee", only Ian McColl (1.93 PPG between 1960-1965) and Tommy Docherty (1.92 PPG during 1971/1972) have better records. Just behind Clarke are Gordon Strachan, Walter Smith, Willie Ormond, Craig Brown and Ally MacLeod (all between 1.65-1.61 PPG, apart from Ally at 1.53 PPG). Jock Stein was 1.48 PPG.

NOTE: all PPG based on 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw.

[SteveHFC]

Best Scotland manager and squad I've seen in my lifetime.

[jacomo]

He’s doing a brilliant job.

Fortunately the knee jerk voices asking for him to be sacked have been ignored. Equally fortunately, he seems happy where he is and resistant to wealthy clubs batting their eyelashes at him.

[Big_Franck]

What a brilliant job Stevie Clarke has done with Scotland! Qualified for first major competition in over 20 years, promotion to the Nations League Group A and now just beaten one of the top sides at Hampden last night.

So the question is who would you compare him against and has yet to surpass.

My thoughts were Alex McCleish, who had a win record of 2.1 points per game, 70% win rate in his 10 games managing Scotland, including defeating France in Paris. He's just behind Alex in my opinion.

Excluding those who were only manager for 1-2 games and the "selection committee", only Ian McColl (1.93 PPG between 1960-1965) and Tommy Docherty (1.92 PPG during 1971/1972) have better records. Just behind Clarke are Gordon Strachan, Walter Smith, Willie Ormond, Craig Brown and Ally MacLeod (all between 1.65-1.61 PPG, apart from Ally at 1.53 PPG). Jock Stein was 1.48 PPG.

NOTE: all PPG based on 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw.

I'd have him ahead of McLeish as Clarke took us to a major tournament. I'd much rather have a slightly lower average points tally and actually qualify than the other way around.

[Just_Jimmy]

Better than anything since Craig Brown.

The bench mark is qualifying, nothing else.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Gordon Strachan was starting to get it right before he left imo


1.80 PPG 10 games WC Qualifiers 16-18, lost our last game in (insert name)?




Craig Brown didn't do too badly iirc, unllike lots of others on here i do like listening to him talking about the game :)

[ekhibee]

I hope he does get us to successive tournaments, he's been a breath of fresh air, and for me a much more appealing manager than Craig Brown who frequently comes across as somebody who for some reason doesn't seem to like Hibs. Just my opinion, listening to his comments over the years.

[Pretty Boy]

Craig Brown.

At our level in international football qualification is both the aim and also success. Smith and McLeish both had big results but ultimately both failed to get us to a major tournament and both had really bad defeats (Belarus and Georgia respectively) that contributed to that. Brown got us to 2 successive tournaments and got pretty close to a 3rd. If Clarke achieves the same then he will have done exceptionally well.

[Lago]

He’s doing a brilliant job.

Fortunately the knee jerk voices asking for him to be sacked have been ignored. Equally fortunately, he seems happy where he is and resistant to wealthy clubs batting their eyelashes at him.
Think it suits him perfectly, not quite the same short termisim of club management, decent salary and can live happily down south, what's not to like.

[Broken Gnome]

He's roughly on a par with McLeish. Tiebreaker is whether we can finally stop grimacing about Georgia 2007.

The Smith/McLeish era gets a slightly raw deal, think we overrate the quality we had. Maybe it was a hangover from Vogts where it was heard to look anything but world-beaters, but for all we had the core of a really good team they still got a tune out of guys who were pretty modest.

[Scouse Hibee]

Sliced bread.

[greenlex]

He’s 3 poor results from getting hounded out.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I think he'll go down as the best ever once he's done. We're still seeing a work in progress, though it's starting to bear real fruit.

worth noting as well that our squad is probably as good as it's been since the 80s.

[where'stheslope]

He’s 3 poor results from getting hounded out.
I think that goes for every manager these days!
Just ask L J, he's been on the same footing, as has Robbie Neilson!!!

[Since452]

Mad how people were wanting him out. Funny old game.

[lugz]

I'm not a fan of the "he got us to a major tournament" he was in the right place at the right time for when nations league started something prior managers never benefited from.
I think he's doing a good job but let's qualify through the front door this time.

[007]

Mad how people were wanting him out. Funny old game.

Mostly Rangers fans IMO because he spoke out after the sectarian chants aimed at him and his "Bye bye Rangers" comment but obviously they won't say that's the reason.

[Mon Dieu4]

Craig Brown.

At our level in international football qualification is both the aim and also success. Smith and McLeish both had big results but ultimately both failed to get us to a major tournament and both had really bad defeats (Belarus and Georgia respectively) that contributed to that. Brown got us to 2 successive tournaments and got pretty close to a 3rd. If Clarke achieves the same then he will have done exceptionally well.

Guy I used to work with sent Craig Brown a letter, round about 99/2000ish explaining all his faults and mentioning certain games, he got about a 10 page hand written letter in reply covering all his points and advising why he made certain decisions in different games, clamped my pal up big time and was a really classy thing for Brown to do

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm not a fan of the "he got us to a major tournament" he was in the right place at the right time for when nations league started something prior managers never benefited from.
I think he's doing a good job but let's qualify through the front door this time.

He got Scotland to a major tournament by succeeding in one of the qualifying routes. Nothing else matters. Doesn't matter one jot how you quality for something.

[B.H.F.C]

I still think Clarke has been a bit up and down. I don’t buy in to the thing about being lucky to qualify for the Euros. Even though it was two penalty shoot outs, we found a way to get the job done and beating Serbia away was big.

There have been a couple of big games where I think he’s got things quite wrong though, Czech game in the Euros and Ukraine playoff.

We need to qualify from this group, from the position we are in. It’s only two games in but it’s only an eight game group so a five point advantage on Norway at this point is huge.

Was at the game last night and though it was brilliant. As soon as the teams were read out I thought we had a right chance though. We’ve got players who are capable of going up against the best, they do it every week. And the other three or four back them up brilliantly.

[Nutmegged]

Best since Craig Brown by a mile, I'd say better than Brown though, from where we where when he took over to where we are now, it's a no brainer from me.

Won the Euro 2020 Play-Offs
Equaled our highest ever qualifications points total (2)
Won us promotion to Group A in the Nations League

There's been some big disappointments along the way, the Czech game at Hampden in the Euros and Ukraine in the World Cup Play-Off being the biggies but we had no devine right to win eithrt of those games, the highs outweigh the lows for me and I see no reason why we can't qualify for major tournaments regularly again under Clarke.

[Forza Fred]

He’s 3 poor results from getting hounded out.

A complete exaggeration!

It’s 4 poor results😂

[lugz]

He got Scotland to a major tournament by succeeding in one of the qualifying routes. Nothing else matters. Doesn't matter one jot how you quality for something.

It does when comparing him to managers who came before him, without the nations league we wouldn't have made the euros. As I said before I think he's doing a good job.

[patlowe]

I'm not a fan of the "he got us to a major tournament" he was in the right place at the right time for when nations league started something prior managers never benefited from.
I think he's doing a good job but let's qualify through the front door this time.

There are loads of caveats you could apply to the successes we had in the past as well of course - I think we have to just give credit where it's due after a long period of failure. Regardless of the Nations League, we outplayed Serbia away and as such deserved to qualify for Euro 2020. We got very close to a world cup which (again if you want to compare with prior achievements) is bloody hard to do these days, though that should change with the expanded format. We're in the top tier of the Nations League, have a greatly improved seeding situation and I'm pretty confident we'll make Euro 2024 - the proof will be in the pudding re the latter of course.

There have been loads of points where Clarke has frustrated me as Scotland manager but taking the above and his club record (record EPL finish with West Brom, 3rd place with Killie) into account, it's hard to argue that he is anything but an excellent football manager.

[MWHIBBIES]

It does when comparing him to managers who came before him, without the nations league we wouldn't have made the euros. As I said before I think he's doing a good job.

Okay. European football is at a much better standard than when we last qualified. Players are faster, fitter, smarter, and better. There are fewer minnows who Scotland can easily beat. The Scottish League is probably poorer.

He's probably done a better job to qualify than his predecessors.

[Edina Street]

Had Maurice Johnston scored here in the 90th minute then Andy Roxburgh would have been the greatest Scotland manager of all time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Viv0AEsAmg

[Bushwoof]

Had Maurice Johnston scored here in the 90th minute then Andy Roxburgh would have been the greatest Scotland manager of all time.

Don't. I was at that game, Brazil had no real interest in beating us, and if it wasn't for Roxburgh choosing the hopelessly out of form Leighton (dropped by Fergie at Man U) ahead of the superb Goram, we'd have been through. And that's before we even look at his ignoring Collins for some Rangers has-beens. Roxburgh was a ****.

Clarke's the best manager since Ally MacLeod!

[Since452]

Craig Brown and i thought Brown was pish at the time and we could do better. We were pretty good and quite unlucky with Walter Smith and then McLeish too.

[Pretty Boy]

Don't. I was at that game, Brazil had no real interest in beating us, and if it wasn't for Roxburgh choosing the hopelessly out of form Leighton (dropped by Fergie at Man U) ahead of the superb Goram, we'd have been through. And that's before we even look at his ignoring Collins for some Rangers has-beens. Roxburgh was a ****.

Clarke's the best manager since Ally MacLeod!

I can never get my head around Leighton starting ahead of Goram at Italia 90. I'm too young to remember it at the time and I absolutely love Jim Leighton but looking back at it, it seems it just had to be Goram.

Ferguson was brutal in his ruthlessness with Leighton when he dropped him for Les Sealey. Roxburgh should have been the same.

[chrisski33]

[QUOTE=Mon Dieu4;7315806]Guy I used to work with sent Craig Brown a letter, round about 99/2000ish explaining all his faults and mentioning certain games, he got about a 10 page hand written letter in reply covering all his points and advising why he made certain decisions in different games, clamped my pal up big time and was a really classy thing for Brown to do[/QUOT

Impressive he got that response from Brown tbh. Not many managers would do that even then.

[greenlex]

[QUOTE=Mon Dieu4;7315806]Guy I used to work with sent Craig Brown a letter, round about 99/2000ish explaining all his faults and mentioning certain games, he got about a 10 page hand written letter in reply covering all his points and advising why he made certain decisions in different games, clamped my pal up big time and was a really classy thing for Brown to do[/QUOT

Impressive he got that response from Brown tbh. Not many managers would do that even then.
Bobby Williamson used to phone folk.

[blackpoolhibs]

[QUOTE=chrisski33;7316532]
Bobby Williamson used to phone folk.

I nearly shat myself when he sat down next to me in the Odeon.

[superfurryhibby]

Don't. I was at that game, Brazil had no real interest in beating us, and if it wasn't for Roxburgh choosing the hopelessly out of form Leighton (dropped by Fergie at Man U) ahead of the superb Goram, we'd have been through. And that's before we even look at his ignoring Collins for some Rangers has-beens. Roxburgh was a ****.

Clarke's the best manager since Ally MacLeod!

The only Rangers player who played in midfield was Stuart McCall. Collins wasn't in the squad, based on experience and lack of exposure to top quality football, that was probably about right too. I think Roxburgh did a good job overall.

[Smartie]

I’ve not really had that much of an issue with Scotland managers over the years, Mr 460 excepted.

Largely the dearth of quality of player has been our undoing and the managers have largely done as well as could be expected with what they’ve had available.

Interesting to see McLeod mentioned a few posts up. I’ve read quite a bit about the 1978 World Cup over the years as I’ve seen it as a fairly pivotal event in our nation’s history. There’s a bit of me that just loves and respects a guy who can get Scots to believe in themselves. Sadly the nuts and bolts that were the preparation for that tournament were absolutely criminal. In years to come I think the likes of Craig Brown were able to overachieve through recognising the ability to prepare meticulously and what he could get out of a significantly weaker player pool really was fairly admirable.

[Keith_M]

...Gordon Strachan.

[Is It On....]

Better than anything since Craig Brown.

The bench mark is qualifying, nothing else.

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Steve Clarke is at an altogether different level to Craig Brown and the JGP. And, almost as importantly, he doesn't appear to be using the the Scotland role to get something "bigger". If he was managing Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen then 3rd place would be a certainty for the club lucky enough to have installed him as their manager

[Trinity Hibee]

Steve Clarke is at an altogether different level to Craig Brown and the JGP. And, almost as importantly, he doesn't appear to be using the the Scotland role to get something "bigger". If he was managing Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen then 3rd place would be a certainty for the club lucky enough to have installed him as their manager

And yet we chose not to when we went for Colin calderwood

[Is It On....]

And yet we chose not to when we went for Colin calderwood

He was available when we went for Neil Lennon.