First aiders - would you know what to do…?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Hopefully in the light of recent incidents at ER involving spectators taking ill this can be considered Hibs related…

I wonder if there’s value in the (perhaps Hibs Community foundation ?) in Hibs running first aid courses?

im just not long back from being out and a woman took a turn (to avoid identifying I’ll not say location ). She was on the ground and folks tending to her. Unfortunately as they moved to get up there was a crack. It appeared to be her leg breaking below the knee…

As folks were tending and phoning the abmulance my wife and I went to a couple of places nearby to ask if there was first aiders. Once charity place went with blankets (although admittedly the bloke was not a first aider) and an opticians - they said they couldn’t really offer help but mentioned the blanket.

So I asked myself what would I have done had I been there a few mins earlier? I don’t fault the people who helped and don’t know the background. But did ask myself would I be equippped to help in some way or be a bit of a spare part?

any thoughta would it be worth doing - even knowing when to immobilise people and when to get them into the recovery position? I saw the aftermath of another accident - the woman cyclist on Princes street that was face down prone on the road - she’s gone over on the tram tram and looked like she wa out of it. To move or not to move / get into recovery position or not ? I guess you phone and get guidance and maybe even first aiders would do that. Anyway it made me think…

admins: feel free to move but I thought it may be worthy of discussion…

[wookie70]

Hopefully in the light of recent incidents at ER involving spectators taking ill this can be considered Hibs related…

I wonder if there’s value in the (perhaps Hibs Community foundation ?) in Hibs running first aid courses?

im just not long back from being out and a woman took a turn (to avoid identifying I’ll not say location ). She was on the ground and folks tending to her. Unfortunately as they moved to get up there was a crack. It appeared to be her leg breaking below the knee…

As folks were tending and phoning the abmulance my wife and I went to a couple of places nearby to ask if there was first aiders. Once charity place went with blankets (although admittedly the bloke was not a first aider) and an opticians - they said they couldn’t really offer help but mentioned the blanket.

So I asked myself what would I have done had I been there a few mins earlier? I don’t fault the people who helped and don’t know the background. But did ask myself would I be equippped to help in some way or be a bit of a spare part?

any thoughta would it be worth doing - even knowing when to immobilise people and when to get them into the recovery position? I saw the aftermath of another accident - the woman cyclist on Princes street that was face down prone on the road - she’s gone over on the tram tram and looked like she wa out of it. To move or not to move / get into recovery position or not ? I guess you phone and get guidance and maybe even first aiders would do that. Anyway it made me think…

admins: feel free to move but I thought it may be worthy of discussion…

It is a long while since I was a first aider but the first job is usually to access the scene for safety of you and the injured party and then do an assessment of the injury/condition. Normally that would be verbal but also feeling the legs for any breaks or bumps etc. Lots of people who are injured are more concerned about the embarrassment than the injury but you would be doing your best to make sure they stayed lying down, obviously keep them warm if you can, until you were sure there were no serious injuries.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It is a long while since I was a first aider but the first job is usually to access the scene for safety of you and the injured party and then do an assessment of the injury/condition. Normally that would be verbal but also feeling the legs for any breaks or bumps etc. Lots of people who are injured are more concerned about the embarrassment than the injury but you would be doing your best to make sure they stayed lying down, obviously keep them warm if you can, until you were sure there were no serious injuries.

thanks I do think I’d be trying to keep them still to see if they could explain what happened and getting assistance on the phone. And if they were looking to stand up make sure of adequate support on both sides taking it slowly.

[speedy_gonzales]

I'm lucky that I get regular first aid training at my work, and I've used that training many times, mostly outwith the working environment.
I reckon everyone should receive some sort of first aid overview, even if it was in the senior years at school.
Priority is always on breathing/circulation so knowing how to assess then deliver compressions & rescue breaths is a must.
Then there's assessing injuries, when to move, when to stabilise, recovery position etc.
In my experience, practicing first aid is a bit like herding cats. There's always a moment of panic/chaos but then there's usually (always) other folk around and they just don't know what to do so you need to employ then to best advantage.
For conscious injured parties, sometimes embarrassment is the biggest factor, especially if it's a trip/fall or if they've had a fit followed by an unintended bladder release. Use people to create a shield and cover the person with a blanket/jacket, making then as comfortable as possible.
One big take I got from an early course was, if an IP asks for a cigarette, give one to them, doesn't matter what their injury is but if a single cigarette calms them down, then it makes your life easier.

[Santa Cruz]

On-line free basic first aid course. It's not a replacment for a practical first aid course, but may give some people a bit more knowledge and confidence. It's really important to stress some procedures for adults differ for kids. I just had a quick glance at this, think it's for adults.

https://www.firstaidforfree.com/free-first-aid-course/

[Scouse Hibee]

Was a first aider for ten years, dealt with some particularly nasty falls on escalators, every one was an elderly person and the cuts and injuries were severe. Sadly one particular lady never recovered and we received a lovely letter from her daughter praising us for the care we had shown. Dealt with many other minor incidents and always dreaded when the call came in but once on scene it’s surprising how you cope and remember your training. Not a position I wanted to continue with though so gave it up. I was also first on the scene at a suicide, nothing could be done and it was a horrible thing to view.

[basehibby]

There's always value in people knowing about basic 1st aid, so a good idea for the club to host 1st aid courses - for the benefit of the wider community as well as at ER.
I'm aware someone had a heart attack in hospitality recently but the OP seems to indicate a general uptick in health emergencies at games - is that really the case?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Great, informative responses - l thanks folks.

[Baader]

I'm a first aider, get my certificate renewed every couple of years through work. It really should be mandatory training in schools and at every place of work.

In a situation like that there isn't a lot a non-medical professional can do. Recovery position should only be used if a person is unconscious but breathing normally. If its a cardiac arrest for example it shouldn't be used. Probably the most important thing I learned was how to use a defibrillator. A guy at my work had a cardiac arrest and his life was saved because someone there (not me!) knew how to use one. The instructions are on them but most folk would probably be too fearful, understandably, of using one without any proper training.

Taking charge of a situation like what you experienced is help enough - just making sure that someone has called 999 for an ambulance and telling them to confirm with you when it's done. It's something that gets easily overlooked in the panic with people thinking someone else has done it.

Not nice seeing stuff like you did today. Well done both of you for helping.

[Smartie]

Knowing “DRS ABC” inside out is what I think everyone should aspire for.

Essentially any member of the public should only be expected to maintain a situation and prevent deterioration until professional help can arrive - which in a busy football stadium should never be long.

Personally I think Hibs are getting a bit off the hook on this one. A football stadium with thousands of people present should be one of the best places for something like this to happen, unlike the side of a mountain where poor Robin Cook had a heart attack. As a society we should expect that by the laws of averages some bystanders should be able to help whilst we summon the appropriate help but in this country we’re not as proactive when it comes to learning first aid or CPR as they are in, say, Norway. I was disappointed to hear that Hibs were found wanting a bit, although I’m not totally surprised.

I may have mentioned this story before but years ago I did a course that involved going down to London for 10 separate days over a year. The guy who ran the course was a season ticket holder at White Hart Lane. This guy always keep very much up to date with advances / changes with CPR and at one home game someone near him suffered cardiac arrest and he was called into action. He said the reaction from those you might expect to be able to help out was lamentable and that poor person passed away. He took it up with the club and told them they needed to buck their ideas up. They did, and lo and behold, the same thing happened shortly after in the same area of the stadium. This time he helped again but the response was better and the person survived. It wasn’t long after that that Fabrice Muamba had a cardiac arrest on the pitch, so this guy had witnessed 3 people suffering cardiac arrest within a fairly short period of time at the same stadium. For Muamba they had fairly robust protocols in place but interestingly I think they threw a lot of them out the window due to a cardiologist being in the crowd who commandeered the situation, insisted he went to a different hospital, a decision that was considered to contribute towards the positive outcome in that case.

So it sounds like this might have been a warning to Hibs and I hope they’ve heeded it. I’d be surprised though, for a number of reasons.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Knowing “DRS ABC” inside out is what I think everyone should aspire for.

Essentially any member of the public should only be expected to maintain a situation and prevent deterioration until professional help can arrive - which in a busy football stadium should never be long.

Personally I think Hibs are getting a bit off the hook on this one. A football stadium with thousands of people present should be one of the best places for something like this to happen, unlike the side of a mountain where poor Robin Cook had a heart attack. As a society we should expect that by the laws of averages some bystanders should be able to help whilst we summon the appropriate help but in this country we’re not as proactive when it comes to learning first aid or CPR as they are in, say, Norway. I was disappointed to hear that Hibs were found wanting a bit, although I’m not totally surprised.

I may have mentioned this story before but years ago I did a course that involved going down to London for 10 separate days over a year. The guy who ran the course was a season ticket holder at White Hart Lane. This guy always keep very much up to date with advances / changes with CPR and at one home game someone near him suffered cardiac arrest and he was called into action. He said the reaction from those you might expect to be able to help out was lamentable and that poor person passed away. He took it up with the club and told them they needed to buck their ideas up. They did, and lo and behold, the same thing happened shortly after in the same area of the stadium. This time he helped again but the response was better and the person survived. It wasn’t long after that that Fabrice Muamba had a cardiac arrest on the pitch, so this guy had witnessed 3 people suffering cardiac arrest within a fairly short period of time at the same stadium. For Muamba they had fairly robust protocols in place but interestingly I think they threw a lot of them out the window due to a cardiologist being in the crowd who commandeered the situation, insisted he went to a different hospital, a decision that was considered to contribute towards the positive outcome in that case.

So it sounds like this might have been a warning to Hibs and I hope they’ve heeded it. I’d be surprised though, for a number of reasons.

Thanks for sharing.

Maybe as fans we should be more demanding esp in the light of recent events.
the club should really communicate better around the steps they have in place and that they have mechanisms in place to learn from events.

I wast aware of that accronym…
https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/first-aid-advice/how-to/how-to-do-the-primary-survey/

If Kieran or the club are reading perhaps they could acknowledge / respond?