Would you stop supporting Hibs if a Saudi business took over?

[Hibbyradge]

Lots of criticism of Newcastle, Man City and Man United (potentially) on this forum, but if it happened to Hibs, would you really walk away?

[Stuart93]

Aye I’d walk away, challenging Celtic for the league would be rubbish 😉

[Edina Street]

Lots of criticism of Newcastle, Man City and Man United (potentially) on this forum, but if it happened to Hibs, would you really walk away?

No. I take cruiseship holidays knowing damn fine that the friendly Thai people and Filipinos that work on those ships for six months non stop are being used for cheap slave labour. But I still like the Thais and Filipinos, and I think they still like me, and I would totally support them if they began complaining about it. But what can I do about it? Sorry, but I love cruising, I'm not stopping. Would not stop watching Hibernian either, even if we are being used for sportswashing and reputation laundering purposes.

[HoboHarry]

I'd start wearing a keffiyeh in support of the new owners. As long as it was green and white and not that horrid red and white version obviously.

[Greencore]

Not at all.

[JohnM1875]

Being honest I probably wouldn't stop supporting Hibs, nah. At least not at first. But I do think it would get boring cruising to victory in the league most weeks.

[Hibbyradge]

But I do think it would get boring cruising to victory in the league most weeks.

It's a strange phenomenon that the most successful clubs, attract the most fans.

There must be a lot of people out there who enjoy being bored with success. :wink:

[Wilson]

I don't like to think of our club as a billionaires plaything. It would be different that's for sure.

I think we're aiming for what my idea of the best version of our club would be. Youth development. Players sales reinvested in the team. Doing things the right (hard) way.

Being a hibby has always been a grind. The quick fix isn't for me.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I don't like to think of our club as a billionaires plaything. It would be different that's for sure.

I think we're aiming for what my idea of the best version of our club would be. Youth development. Players sales reinvested in the team. Doing things the right (hard) way.

Being a hibby has always been a grind. The quick fix isn't for me.

Here's the truth mate. No club of our size, not a single one, can develop enough players through the youth system to make them contenders for the league. If you get two a year, not a season a year, fit for regular first team football you are doing bloody well and if they are even half decent you will be lucky to keep them for more than two seasons.

Yeh you might get 2 or 3 million for one of them, but that's peanuts compared to what the likes of Celtic or Rangers can get for a player, Rangers recently got 12 million for a right back with a handful of first team games under his belt, whereas we got offered 2.5 million for a striker on red hot form and 8 Scotland caps. Until our league gets to the level of Holland or Belgium ( some chance ) that is the sort of money we will always be able to ask for players. Yes that money can go back into the team, but even then you have to invest it wisely and as we have shown with the Doig money that doesn't always happen.

The way folk go on you would think trying to develop our own players to sell on with a view to putting that money into the squad is some new thing Ron Gordon just thought of ... the fact is Hibs and everybody else have been doing it for years and getting exactly nowhere with it. The one good idea Ron Gordon has come up with is trying to up the clubs income so we can pay higher wages, in the long run that might pay off.

The fact is we have been doing the 'no quick fix' thing for decades because we have no choice and until that mythical billionaire looking for a new plaything turns up that's exactly what we will keep doing and almost certainly with the same massive mixed bag of results, which will not, not ever, include winning the league.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It's a tough one because if you actually start applying morals based on international goings on to your day to day life exactly where do you draw the line? A poster further up the page makes a good point talking about his love of cruise holidays.

How many of us holiday in Turkey ... a country run by a guy who arrests journalists and puts teachers and minor officials out of work who don't agree with his politics and whose treatment of the Kurds is at best questionable.

Half the clothes sold on the high street are made by folk working in conditions you wouldn't keep your dog in for 'western' companies who outsource to these places because that allows them to pay poverty wages to folk, sometimes just kids, working 12 hour days and to use factories whose pollution output would land them in court in a western country ..... how many folk does that stop buying products made in these countries?

Half the stuff in practically all of our homes is made in China, including a whole pile of Covid testing kits I still have in my house ..... you would need 10 pages just to list how much their world view and the way they apply it internally is at odds with what we would consider acceptable, their execution rate of around 8,000 every year makes the Saudis look like rank amateurs and lets not even talk about their treatment of the Uyghur Muslims. How many of us see 'made in the PRC marked on a product and put it back on the shelf?

How many of us have happily flown with airlines owned by the very countries we all of a sudden wouldn't want owning our football club?

In the end you could make a moral case against practically any country owning a football club, not to mention a whole pile of individuals out there with enormous wealth and dodgy morals. But unless you are a person who applies that moral case to everything you do in life binning your football club because its been bought by some Saudi based company or businessman is of little use in the grand scheme of things.

Having said that, if anybody was to do it I certainly wouldn't condemn them for it, nor would I ever use the expression 'virtue signalling' it's a nonsense expression popularised by the right wing media in their attempts to mock and belittle folks genuine and perfectly reasonably held views .... it is about as creditable as the nonsense phrase 'haters gonna' hate' used by people too stupid to express themselves coherently in an argument.
If people make a decision based on their firmly held moral and ethical beliefs who the hell am I to tell them they are wrong to do so, for all I have said here.

[MWHIBBIES]

Probably yes.

[OldEast]

Not a chance. I refuse to let politics influence every facet of my life.

[Pretty Boy]

I didn't renew my Newcastle membership after the Saudi takeover. I'd probably do likewise with my ST at Hibs if we became the plaything of a similar regime.

It might depend on the circumstances, a businessman of Saudi origin is one thing, actually being under the control of the ruling bodies is another. Sportswashing is sportswashing and however you try to rationalise it, because it's Hibs, you are ultimately being used to attempt to legitimise humans rights abuses, oppression of women etc etc.

[MWHIBBIES]

Not a chance. I refuse to let politics influence every facet of my life.

Do you think getting beaten and locked up for being gay is a subjective, political matter?

[MWHIBBIES]

I didn't renew my Newcastle membership after the Saudi takeover. I'd probably do likewise with my ST at Hibs if we became the plaything of a similar regime.

It might depend on the circumstances, a businessman of Saudi origin is one thing, actually being under the control of the ruling bodies is another. Sportswashing is sportswashing and however you try to rationalise it, because it's Hibs, you are ultimately being used to attempt to legitimise humans rights abuses, oppression of women etc etc.

Correct.

[Since90+2]

Eh, nah.

Hibs isn't about who has their name on the ownership papers.

It's the fans, it's Easter Road, it's the green and white, it's Sunshine on Leith. None of that would change regardless if we were owned by someone from Restalrig or from Riyad.

[OldEast]

Do you think getting beaten and locked up for being gay is a subjective, political matter?

Wow, I'm struggling to know even how to reply to this whataboutery bollocks. All I can say is, if you let every bad, nasty, inhuman, unfair situation affect how you live your life then just stay home, switch the tv off and delete all your social media accounts. Go into politics or become a monk. I could go on but posts like this ****ing annoy me.

[Gmack7]

Let me think, NO

[Since452]

No

[hibsbollah]

Since it’s never going to happen, I can smugly feel morally superior while having a club to pass on to my kids and watch signings such as Ewan Henderson pass it thoughtfully straight out of play. Meanwhile the Geordies are classlessly dressing up in jubbahs up on the seventh tier of SJP and watching Guimaraes trap the ball out of the sky.

Win-win.

[vercol36]

Yes

[Glory Lurker]

Yes.

[bingo70]

Are all Saudi people/businesses bad?

Doesn’t seem to sit right with me to lump a whole nation of people together as bad guys. If they are though and I’m wrong, what other countries should we be beware of buyers from?

I’m no expert on the matter though so I’m not wanting to cause offence to those that feel strongly about it.

[Cat Stanton]

Not a chance. I refuse to let politics influence every facet of my life.

It already does really, if you think about it.

[OldEast]

It already does really, if you think about it.

Of course it does. From birth to death we have little choice or influence. That's why, given the choice, I wouldn't let it stop me supporting my childhood team.

[One Day]

NO

[blackpoolhibs]

I wouldnt give a toss if a consortium of Harold Shipman Adol Hitler and Kevin Thomson bought us, and we were winning the league and cups every season.

[OldEast]

I wouldnt give a toss if a consortium of Harold Shipman Adol Hitler and Kevin Thomson bought us, and we were winning the league and cups every season.

😂😂😂😂👍👍👍

[hibsbollah]

I wouldnt give a toss if a consortium of Harold Shipman Adol Hitler and Kevin Thomson bought us, and we were winning the league and cups every season.

Thomson? I can stomach the other two but you’ve gone too far with that one

[Glory Lurker]

I've said yes but see the question is if a Saudi business took over rather than the Saudi government, which is effectively what's happened in Newcastle.

I'd have no problem with a Saudi business that was nowhere near the government, clean, and otherwise could be shown to be clean of the extremism that prevails in that part of the world, and that continued to support our engagement with women's football and our support for the gay and trans community.

I'd apply that to any owner from wherever.

[Big_Franck]

I couldn't care less who the owners were if we were winning every derby and winning trophies.

[hibsbollah]

I've said yes but see the question is if a Saudi business took over rather than the Saudi government, which is effectively what's happened in Newcastle.

I'd have no problem with a Saudi business that was nowhere near the government, clean, and otherwise could be shown to be clean of the extremism that prevails in that part of the world, and that continued to support our engagement with women's football and our support for the gay and trans community.

I'd apply that to any owner from wherever.

The Saudi Crown Prince, and the country’s Deputy PM, is Chair of the owners of Newcastle. It’s beyond naive to think it’s not that country’s government running the club.

[CockneyRebel]

Here's the truth mate. No club of our size, not a single one, can develop enough players through the youth system to make them contenders for the league. If you get two a year, not a season a year, fit for regular first team football you are doing bloody well and if they are even half decent you will be lucky to keep them for more than two seasons.

Yeh you might get 2 or 3 million for one of them, but that's peanuts compared to what the likes of Celtic or Rangers can get for a player, Rangers recently got 12 million for a right back with a handful of first team games under his belt, whereas we got offered 2.5 million for a striker on red hot form and 8 Scotland caps. Until our league gets to the level of Holland or Belgium ( some chance ) that is the sort of money we will always be able to ask for players. Yes that money can go back into the team, but even then you have to invest it wisely and as we have shown with the Doig money that doesn't always happen.

The way folk go on you would think trying to develop our own players to sell on with a view to putting that money into the squad is some new thing Ron Gordon just thought of ... the fact is Hibs and everybody else have been doing it for years and getting exactly nowhere with it. The one good idea Ron Gordon has come up with is trying to up the clubs income so we can pay higher wages, in the long run that might pay off.

The fact is we have been doing the 'no quick fix' thing for decades because we have no choice and until that mythical billionaire looking for a new plaything turns up that's exactly what we will keep doing and almost certainly with the same massive mixed bag of results, which will not, not ever, include winning the league.


:aok: Sad but true.

[CockneyRebel]

It's a tough one because if you actually start applying morals based on international goings on to your day to day life exactly where do you draw the line? A poster further up the page makes a good point talking about his love of cruise holidays.

How many of us holiday in Turkey ... a country run by a guy who arrests journalists and puts teachers and minor officials out of work who don't agree with his politics and whose treatment of the Kurds is at best questionable.

Half the clothes sold on the high street are made by folk working in conditions you wouldn't keep your dog in for 'western' companies who outsource to these places because that allows them to pay poverty wages to folk, sometimes just kids, working 12 hour days and to use factories whose pollution output would land them in court in a western country ..... how many folk does that stop buying products made in these countries?

Half the stuff in practically all of our homes is made in China, including a whole pile of Covid testing kits I still have in my house ..... you would need 10 pages just to list how much their world view and the way they apply it internally is at odds with what we would consider acceptable, their execution rate of around 8,000 every year makes the Saudis look like rank amateurs and lets not even talk about their treatment of the Uyghur Muslims. How many of us see 'made in the PRC marked on a product and put it back on the shelf?

How many of us have happily flown with airlines owned by the very countries we all of a sudden wouldn't want owning our football club?

In the end you could make a moral case against practically any country owning a football club, not to mention a whole pile of individuals out there with enormous wealth and dodgy morals. But unless you are a person who applies that moral case to everything you do in life binning your football club because its been bought by some Saudi based company or businessman is of little use in the grand scheme of things.

Having said that, if anybody was to do it I certainly wouldn't condemn them for it, nor would I ever use the expression 'virtue signalling' it's a nonsense expression popularised by the right wing media in their attempts to mock and belittle folks genuine and perfectly reasonably held views .... it is about as creditable as the nonsense phrase 'haters gonna' hate' used by people too stupid to express themselves coherently in an argument.
If people make a decision based on their firmly held moral and ethical beliefs who the hell am I to tell them they are wrong to do so, for all I have said here.


:aok::aok: Very insightful.

[Pretty Boy]

I've said yes but see the question is if a Saudi business took over rather than the Saudi government, which is effectively what's happened in Newcastle.

I'd have no problem with a Saudi business that was nowhere near the government, clean, and otherwise could be shown to be clean of the extremism that prevails in that part of the world, and that continued to support our engagement with women's football and our support for the gay and trans community.

I'd apply that to any owner from wherever.

I'm not sure how easy it is to separate the two in somewhere like Saudi. That's not a racial or cultural stereotype, it's probably not all that different from the UK in that inherited status, privilege and family lineage plays a huge part in dictating who is successful both there and here.

As an example one of the biggest horse racing and breeding operations in the world is Juddmonte Farms. Nominally headquartered in Newmarket and Kentucky and operated, until his death 2 years ago, by Prince Khalid bin Abdulah Al Saud. He was a son of a half brother of the founder of Saudi Arabia but the company is a private company. However dig a bit deeper and it's parent company is Mawarid Holdings, registered in Riyadh and also formerly headed up by the aforementioned Prince. Since his death control has been taken by Fahd bin Khaled bin Abdullah bin Rahman Al Saud. Member of the House of Saud, former military officer, former Saudi Defence Minister and grandson of King Saud himself. Degrees of separation but ultimately the sporting operation is inextricably linked to the ruling family.

That repeats across the business world in Saudi. Again not all that different from here there is marriage between cousins with the added complication of men often having multiple wives and children to each. Somewhere down the line almost everyone running one of the big hitting businesses with transformational wealth will be linked by birth or marriage to the ruling family. It's almost impossible to completely separate the two.

I think it's impossible to have any ownership that is squeaky clean but I would argue being directly or indirectly owned by a state, any state really, is fundamentally different from the often unavoidable consumer choices we make to buy products produced in other countries governed by dubious regimes.

Anyway this is one of those debates in which no one is going to change their minds so probably best for me to leave it here. Everyone will have their own moral compass on this one and being spoken at or lectured isn't going to win any hearts and minds.

[nonshinyfinish]

I didn't renew my Newcastle membership after the Saudi takeover. I'd probably do likewise with my ST at Hibs if we became the plaything of a similar regime.

It might depend on the circumstances, a businessman of Saudi origin is one thing, actually being under the control of the ruling bodies is another. Sportswashing is sportswashing and however you try to rationalise it, because it's Hibs, you are ultimately being used to attempt to legitimise humans rights abuses, oppression of women etc etc.


Are all Saudi people/businesses bad?

Doesn’t seem to sit right with me to lump a whole nation of people together as bad guys. If they are though and I’m wrong, what other countries should we be beware of buyers from?

I’m no expert on the matter though so I’m not wanting to cause offence to those that feel strongly about it.

Yep, this distinction is important. The premise of this thread and some of the replies suggest that some people think the objection to Newcastle's ownership is just 'Saudis = bad'. It's not just some Saudi business, it's the Saudi government, so there's a direct connection to chopping up journalists and all the oppression that goes on.

That's also why it's a false equivalence to talk about holidays in Turkey or owning a Chinese fridge.

[Bostonhibby]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]I draw the line at having a sevconian owner but otherwise I do agree with Blackpoolhibs that being dead shouldn't be a bar to being in the wheelhouse at Easter road.

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[Winston Ingram]

I think it's different if Saudi or Qatari's buy us.

They buy PL clubs for the global publicity it gives them. That publicity enables them to sportswash them and helps show them across the world in a good light.

Dunno why they'd buy a Scottish Club. They'd get hardly any publicity whatsoever.

[Pretty Boy]

I think it's different if Saudi or Qatari's buy us.

They buy PL clubs for the global publicity it gives them. That publicity enables them to sportswash them and helps show them across the world in a good light.

Dunno why they'd buy a Scottish Club. They'd get hardly any publicity whatsoever.

The only reason I think you could come up with is that it's cheaper. That doesn't stand up to much scrutiny though.

Buying Man Utd is going to cost between £4bn and 6bn then you have to spend hundreds of millions to cement them as a top 4 side and as genuine title contenders again, then significantly more again to keep them competing at the business end of the Champions League. You can pick up Hibs for sweetie money and could fast track access to the Champions League by breaking the duopoly at a cost of high tens of millions rather than hundreds of millions. That's a saving of billions before the real spending has to start.

As I said it stands up to no scrutiny though as money is no object for the people we are talking about and sporting success is secondary to the prestige, gravitas and diplomacy owning one of the big guns brings.

[Up-the-slope]

Lots of criticism of Newcastle, Man City and Man United (potentially) on this forum, but if it happened to Hibs, would you really walk away?
No. Not necessarily if it were a Saudi (or Qatari) business...

However the examples given are clubs where its the investment vehicle for Saudi & Qatari Sate which is a different question

[eastmainsmsh]

As Sean Connery would say I’d be Sheikh as ****

[Winston Ingram]

The only reason I think you could come up with is that it's cheaper. That doesn't stand up to much scrutiny though.

Buying Man Utd is going to cost between £4bn and 6bn then you have to spend hundreds of millions to cement them as a top 4 side and as genuine title contenders again, then significantly more again to keep them competing at the business end of the Champions League. You can pick up Hibs for sweetie money and could fast track access to the Champions League by breaking the duopoly at a cost of high tens of millions rather than hundreds of millions. That's a saving of billions before the real spending has to start.

As I said it stands up to no scrutiny though as money is no object for the people we are talking about and sporting success is secondary to the prestige, gravitas and diplomacy owning one of the big guns brings.

It is cheaper, but buying us wouldn't help them meet any of their objectives. Their aim is to use football to promote their reputation on a global stage and deflect attention away from their other dubious activities.

The global reach of the PL gives them the exposure to do that. The SPFL doesn't.

[SHODAN]

I'd think about it tbh.

[Just_Jimmy]

No doubt we'd get the only crown Prince who's crown was a burger king one... and didn't have two pennies to rub together.

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[Greencore]

I wouldnt give a toss if a consortium of Harold Shipman Adol Hitler and Kevin Thomson bought us, and we were winning the league and cups every season.

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[neil7908]

I didn't renew my Newcastle membership after the Saudi takeover. I'd probably do likewise with my ST at Hibs if we became the plaything of a similar regime.

It might depend on the circumstances, a businessman of Saudi origin is one thing, actually being under the control of the ruling bodies is another. Sportswashing is sportswashing and however you try to rationalise it, because it's Hibs, you are ultimately being used to attempt to legitimise humans rights abuses, oppression of women etc etc.

This 100%.

[big gogs]

This 100%.
What about human rights in this country,people are going hungry ,there are reports of people dying of the cold,kids going without a meal.our own football club are catering for the hungry and cold.serving Christmas dinners a warm place to sit.polititions of all colours are talking about it ,but are doing nothing.food banks are running short,heating bills are out of control.billions of pounds are being robbed .the fact we are discussing sport and politics confirm they do mix.

[Ronniekirk]

I am so used to only winning a cup every 10 years or so , not winning derbies as often as our rivals ,turning up for full house against the likes of st Johnstone and then not winning
Not sure my bladder could cope with the excitement of winning the treble and all those European trips
But Hell ,would give it a go just to see Always been a Glory Hunter and Bladder wouldn’t be an issue as would go from a die hard Bedwetter to A joyous Happy Clapper lol

But would need to bring back a loyalty system Home snd Away Am not missing out to the bloody Prawn sandwich brigade in the West whose legions would undoubtedly grow

[Spike Mandela]

Yeah, I think I would be principled enough to walk away from a Saudi Princes’ money or a Putin backed oligarch. I would love to see big money pumped into Hibs, just to see what could happen, but not at any cost.

[A Hi-Bee]

Fantasy stuff, but it would not stop me going, only thing that stops me going is a sheity football team, sheeps eyes would make a nice change at the food stalls. I see the Qatar Gov has donated 40,000 accommodation containers to Turkey & Syria.
Money in football we just cannot get away from.

[Kato]

I am so conditioned to Hibsing it

Away you go with that rubbish.

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[Donegal Hibby]

I still follow Newcastle United even with there takeover and would be the same with Hibs and think our attendance's would be lot bigger when we were winning cups and leagues though does that make it right , probably not though it would be hard to stop following and supporting something that was a massive part of your life for year's too , wouldn't it ?

[neil7908]

What about human rights in this country,people are going hungry ,there are reports of people dying of the cold,kids going without a meal.our own football club are catering for the hungry and cold.serving Christmas dinners a warm place to sit.polititions of all colours are talking about it ,but are doing nothing.food banks are running short,heating bills are out of control.billions of pounds are being robbed .the fact we are discussing sport and politics confirm they do mix.

And if a Rishi Sunak led consortium took over Hibs my feelings would be the same.

The older I get the more distaste I feel with elite football. I used to watch loads of EPL and Champions League when I was a bit younger. Now I cant be bothered as the top end of the game isn't football anymore.

I don't want my club to be part of that world and any 'success' would be completely hollow and hold no joy for me.

It's probably not a shock to say I, like most Hibs fans, don't follow us because of my desperate desire for 'success'. I have a deep, decades long connection to the club and the community around it.

[Crunchie]

Lots of criticism of Newcastle, Man City and Man United (potentially) on this forum, but if it happened to Hibs, would you really walk away?
No.

[brog]

[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;7280127]I wouldnt give a toss if a consortium of Harold Shipman Adol Hitler and Kevin Thomson bought us, and we were winning the league and cups every season.

According to some on here they already own us! :greengrin Love you including KT with the 1st 2, brutal!

[Bostonhibby]

It's Hibs FFS, we will end up with a guitar, and the strings will be broken.....

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[MKHIBEE]

Nah, it would be too much fun listening to Huntic greeting about the financial disparity between us and them.

[Brightside]

Anyone who is saying they'd give up their ST would soon change their mind when we were top of the league.

[scm70nyd1973]

I wouldnt give a toss if a consortium of Harold Shipman Adol Hitler and Kevin Thomson bought us, and we were winning the league and cups every season.

But a bet you would draw the line if Skacel joined that wee syndicate 🤭😁😂

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yep, this distinction is important. The premise of this thread and some of the replies suggest that some people think the objection to Newcastle's ownership is just 'Saudis = bad'. It's not just some Saudi business, it's the Saudi government, so there's a direct connection to chopping up journalists and all the oppression that goes on.

That's also why it's a false equivalence to talk about holidays in Turkey or owning a Chinese fridge.

Is it a false equivalence though? How many folk would choose to buy a Samsung mobile phone rather than a Huawei one simply because they know that the Chinese communist party are in all but name owners of Huawei, a government every bit a match for the people running Saudi Arabia in oppression and punitive punishment of their own citizens.

In reality how many folk would fly to an international destination using a more expensive airline simply to avoid using state owned airlines owned by the likes of Qatar or the UAE ... not many is my guess.

And yet we are discussing here folk withdrawing their support for something that for many of them has been a lifelong passion and far more important to them than what mobile phone they buy or what airline they fly with ..... given that fact it should be far easier to apply the moral case to a one off purchase of a phone or choosing an airline than binning your football club because of who owns it and yet who does it?

If it came to it I wouldn't judge people either way on what they chose to do .... my take on this might be different to other folks, but I would refute that it's based on a false equivalence .... If there was only one mobile phone manufacturer in the world or only one airline or one clothing manufacturer then fine ... but there isn't, is there.

The fact is that folk have this choice in their day to day lives of whether or not to spend on things that will put money into the pockets of oppressive governments and you would be lucky if one in a thousand apply a moral judgment to it.

[OldEast]

Anyone who is saying they'd give up their ST would soon change their mind when we were top of the league.

Of course they would. Even if Malky Mackay was the manager and David Goodwillie was our highest paid player.

[Since452]

I would lap it up. I'm a fickle football fan. I want to see my team winning trophies and lots of them.

[nonshinyfinish]

Is it a false equivalence though? How many folk would choose to buy a Samsung mobile phone rather than a Huawei one simply because they know that the Chinese communist party are in all but name owners of Huawei, a government every bit a match for the people running Saudi Arabia in oppression and punitive punishment of their own citizens.

In reality how many folk would fly to an international destination using a more expensive airline simply to avoid using state owned airlines owned by the likes of Qatar or the UAE ... not many is my guess.

And yet we are discussing here folk withdrawing their support for something that for many of them has been a lifelong passion and far more important to them than what mobile phone they buy or what airline they fly with ..... given that fact it should be far easier to apply the moral case to a one off purchase of a phone or choosing an airline than binning your football club because of who owns it and yet who does it?

If it came to it I wouldn't judge people either way on what they chose to do .... my take on this might be different to other folks, but I would refute that it's based on a false equivalence .... If there was only one mobile phone manufacturer in the world or only one airline or one clothing manufacturer then fine ... but there isn't, is there.

I agree that it's no longer a false equivalence if you narrow it down to only things that are somewhat equivalent. Before you were talking about stuff made in China generally, not specifically about state-controlled companies like Huawei.

[Ronniekirk]

Away you go with that rubbish.

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It was tounge in cheek but we do get accused of it so often thought it was worth including

[Allant1981]

100% would be up for this, make it happen!!

[SlickShoes]

Lots of criticism of Newcastle, Man City and Man United (potentially) on this forum, but if it happened to Hibs, would you really walk away?

There’s a difference between a business or business person from X country and the actual state buying a club. You can’t really hold a business accountable for what the state of their country is but when it’s a state you can and should.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree that it's no longer a false equivalence if you narrow it down to only things that are somewhat equivalent. Before you were talking about stuff made in China generally, not specifically about state-controlled companies like Huawei.

Cheers mate .... Its a massive subject in reality and sometimes hard to be specific as you need to be. Looking at it perhaps its no bad thing that its highly unlikely this will ever be anything but a hypothetical discussion.

Having said that, I will always be of the opinion that all these billionaires looking to invest in fitba are absolutely missing a trick when it comes to Scottish fitba ..... anybody who could come in and break a 40 odd year long duopoly would make headlines all over the fitba world*, especially if that club then went on to be a success in Europe, even if that was only in the Europa league, and it could be done for relative peanuts compared to trying to win the EPL or La Liga. :greengrin

*I recall when Hearts went on that 10 game winning run with George Burley in charge and looked like they might actually seriously challenge for the league ... even at that early stage they were making the papers in Germany and Holland.

[superfurryhibby]

I am so conditioned to Hibsing it ,

No, spare us that pish, even in self -deprecating humour.

[badabing67]

No... the club is forever and owners come and go. imo

[Cat Stanton]

Although I'm no expert on the world of football finance, but at a guess I'd say this must surely be one of the more pointless threads on this forum...

[Brightside]

I'm not sure how easy it is to separate the two in somewhere like Saudi. That's not a racial or cultural stereotype, it's probably not all that different from the UK in that inherited status, privilege and family lineage plays a huge part in dictating who is successful both there and here.

As an example one of the biggest horse racing and breeding operations in the world is Juddmonte Farms. Nominally headquartered in Newmarket and Kentucky and operated, until his death 2 years ago, by Prince Khalid bin Abdulah Al Saud. He was a son of a half brother of the founder of Saudi Arabia but the company is a private company. However dig a bit deeper and it's parent company is Mawarid Holdings, registered in Riyadh and also formerly headed up by the aforementioned Prince. Since his death control has been taken by Fahd bin Khaled bin Abdullah bin Rahman Al Saud. Member of the House of Saud, former military officer, former Saudi Defence Minister and grandson of King Saud himself. Degrees of separation but ultimately the sporting operation is inextricably linked to the ruling family.

That repeats across the business world in Saudi. Again not all that different from here there is marriage between cousins with the added complication of men often having multiple wives and children to each. Somewhere down the line almost everyone running one of the big hitting businesses with transformational wealth will be linked by birth or marriage to the ruling family. It's almost impossible to completely separate the two.

I think it's impossible to have any ownership that is squeaky clean but I would argue being directly or indirectly owned by a state, any state really, is fundamentally different from the often unavoidable consumer choices we make to buy products produced in other countries governed by dubious regimes.

Anyway this is one of those debates in which no one is going to change their minds so probably best for me to leave it here. Everyone will have their own moral compass on this one and being spoken at or lectured isn't going to win any hearts and minds.

But you still follow Horse Racing PB?

[WhileTheChief..]

I didn't renew my Newcastle membership after the Saudi takeover. I'd probably do likewise with my ST at Hibs if we became the plaything of a similar regime.

It might depend on the circumstances, a businessman of Saudi origin is one thing, actually being under the control of the ruling bodies is another. Sportswashing is sportswashing and however you try to rationalise it, because it's Hibs, you are ultimately being used to attempt to legitimise humans rights abuses, oppression of women etc etc.

How does the Saudis owning Newcastle attempt to legitimise anything?

It highlighted the issues in that country and brought lots of condemnation of the regime from the media. The opposite of what you’re suggesting really.

Nobody started thinking Russia was cool just cause Chelsea were owned by a Russian!


EDIt - ok, "i don't think many people started thinking Russia was cool...."

That's better eh. nothing definite about that and I've added more to the discussion. Pleasing.

[grunt]

Nobody started thinking Russia was cool just cause Chelsea were owned by a Russian!Didn't they? I'm not sure you can be so definite about that.

[hibsbollah]

How does the Saudis owning Newcastle attempt to legitimise anything?

It highlighted the issues in that country and brought lots of condemnation of the regime from the media. The opposite of what you’re suggesting really.

Nobody started thinking Russia was cool just cause Chelsea were owned by a Russian!

Why do you think companies bother advertising ? Sportswashing applies the same psychological principles. Connect the brand with something the consumer values.

[HFC93]

No. Hibs fans who say they wouldn't lap it up if we won the league due the funding due from morally dubious owners is kidding themselves on.

[Hibbyradge]

Although I'm no expert on the world of football finance, but at a guess I'd say this must surely be one of the more pointless threads on this forum...

The point of any thread is only to promote discussion.

What's the point of any thread otherwise? Should Lee Johnson be sacked? Pointless.

2023 January transfer window. Pointless.

What's the definition of a Hibs legend? Pointless.

Your post doesn't even promote discussion, so what was the point of it?

[Donegal Hibby]

It's Hibs FFS, we will end up with a guitar, and the strings will be broken.....

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
No we won't mate . Heard that Sheikh Abdul abulabul abulabul is interested in buying us and he wants to carry on the good work by spending millions of Riyal .
https://images.app.goo.gl/GhQQ2ZdV7H9jdSiv5

[ekhibee]

Yes.

[bod]

No

[ekhibee]

I'm not sure how easy it is to separate the two in somewhere like Saudi. That's not a racial or cultural stereotype, it's probably not all that different from the UK in that inherited status, privilege and family lineage plays a huge part in dictating who is successful both there and here.

As an example one of the biggest horse racing and breeding operations in the world is Juddmonte Farms. Nominally headquartered in Newmarket and Kentucky and operated, until his death 2 years ago, by Prince Khalid bin Abdulah Al Saud. He was a son of a half brother of the founder of Saudi Arabia but the company is a private company. However dig a bit deeper and it's parent company is Mawarid Holdings, registered in Riyadh and also formerly headed up by the aforementioned Prince. Since his death control has been taken by Fahd bin Khaled bin Abdullah bin Rahman Al Saud. Member of the House of Saud, former military officer, former Saudi Defence Minister and grandson of King Saud himself. Degrees of separation but ultimately the sporting operation is inextricably linked to the ruling family.

That repeats across the business world in Saudi. Again not all that different from here there is marriage between cousins with the added complication of men often having multiple wives and children to each. Somewhere down the line almost everyone running one of the big hitting businesses with transformational wealth will be linked by birth or marriage to the ruling family. It's almost impossible to completely separate the two.

I think it's impossible to have any ownership that is squeaky clean but I would argue being directly or indirectly owned by a state, any state really, is fundamentally different from the often unavoidable consumer choices we make to buy products produced in other countries governed by dubious regimes.

Anyway this is one of those debates in which no one is going to change their minds so probably best for me to leave it here. Everyone will have their own moral compass on this one and being spoken at or lectured isn't going to win any hearts and minds.
Very true, and also worth remembering that Khaled Abdullah owned some of the greatest horses of all time. Despite his wealth he didn't try to take over horse racing like the Maktoums, he didn't buy over one of the major sporting newspapers and he didn't buy shares in Channel 4 Racing. Their corruption was no reflection on him. You would never end up with ridiculous horse races where every horse was owned by him or another member of his family like the Maktoums. But I'm with MWHibees on this, I definitely would sacrifice my ST rather than have an association with the ugly regime that rules Saudi Arabia. that's just my opinion though.

[Bostonhibby]

No we won't mate . Heard that Sheikh Abdul abulabul abulabul is interested in buying us and he wants to carry on the good work by spending millions of Riyal .
https://images.app.goo.gl/GhQQ2ZdV7H9jdSiv5[emoji23]

I quite like the idea that we might get a camel out of it, another first.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Donegal Hibby]

[emoji23]

I quite like the idea that we might get a camel out of it, another first.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Great idea 👍 we could use it to get to get to the Hibs social club before a match when we are going to get lashed 😂

[Kato]

[emoji23]

I quite like the idea that we might get a camel out of it, another first.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkWe could take the hump a bit more than usual.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

Great idea 👍 we could use it to get to get to the Hibs social club before a match when we are going to get lashed 😂

I've been lashed in a few social clubs in my time, to be fair.

[Cat Stanton]

The point of any thread is only to promote discussion.

What's the point of any thread otherwise? Should Lee Johnson be sacked? Pointless.

2023 January transfer window. Pointless.

What's the definition of a Hibs legend? Pointless.

Your post doesn't even promote discussion, so what was the point of it?

Well i suppose my point (which was obviously intended jocularly and so didn't really need an angry response (!)) was it's a moot point: a Saudi business is never going to take over a team like Hibs in the SPFL (there's obviously no money in the SPFL so it wouldn't be a sensible investment). So what's the point of debating it?

And so it's obviously quite different from the examples you give: given Hibs' recent track record with managers, it's certainly plausible that Johnson could get sacked (discuss); hibs needed players in the window - which ones? (discuss); how do you define a legend (lots to discuss); if the moon was made of cheese, would you fancy a bit on a cracker (nothing to discuss because it's not made of cheese (although there's probably some part of the internet where some people will disagree angrily with that statement)).

But most importantly... it was just a wee joke.

[Donegal Hibby]

I've been lashed in a few social clubs in my time, to be fair.
What was the bar Paul kane ran again ?

[jakedance]

I’m 100% ready to sell out. It would be amazing to watch a great team and get a bit of success after decades watching us being, quite a bit of the time, pretty mediocre.

[whiskyhibby]

Absolutely not, owners are transitory

[Hibbyradge]

Well i suppose my point (which was obviously intended jocularly and so didn't really need an angry response (!)) was it's a moot point: a Saudi business is never going to take over a team like Hibs in the SPFL (there's obviously no money in the SPFL so it wouldn't be a sensible investment). So what's the point of debating it?

And so it's obviously quite different from the examples you give: given Hibs' recent track record with managers, it's certainly plausible that Johnson could get sacked (discuss); hibs needed players in the window - which ones? (discuss); how do you define a legend (lots to discuss); if the moon was made of cheese, would you fancy a bit on a cracker (nothing to discuss because it's not made of cheese (although there's probably some part of the internet where people will disagree).

But most importantly... it was just a wee joke.

My post was hypothetical, obviously.

The point was to find out if people would feel different about Saudi Arabian or Qatari investment in football clubs if it was Hibs.

I wasn't angry, though. Just slightly bemused by your pointless post or joke as you've called it.

[Squealing pig]

Be good to see the old firm moan about the budget so I’m in

[Alex Trager]

Na. Absolutely not.

Give me the glory.

It’s about time we got bankrolled by a sugar daddy/mummy.

FTH

[Glory Lurker]

Na. Absolutely not.

Give me the glory.

It’s about time we got bankrolled by a sugar daddy/mummy.

FTH

Unlikely to be a sugar mummy

[Hibbyradge]

Na. Absolutely not.

Give me the glory.

It’s about time we got bankrolled by a sugar daddy/mummy.

FTH

Are there Egyptian billionaires too?

[Irish_Steve]

Unlikely to be a sugar mummy

Funded by MILF’s then???

[Donegal Hibby]

Are there Egyptian billionaires too?
One article I read today says Iranian - American billionaire Jahm Majafi is reportedly going to bid 3.1 billion for spurs which won't be enough as spurs owner Joe Lewis wants closer to 4.5 billon !

[Eyrie]

Funded by MILF’s then???

The Monaco Investment Life Fund? :dunno:

[Hibbyradge]

The Monaco Investment Life Fund? :dunno:

Mummies (who) intensely love football.

[percy veer]

the media hate us as it is , lets stick it right up them and go for it, I would love it.

[Hibees1973]

If Ron ever sells to a Saudi owner the Hibs support would have zero influence over it and would be powerless to stop it.

I would not approve, however I could not stop supporting Hibs. I'm a Hibee for life.

Having a Saudi owner, even our current American owner is not what Hibs are. We are an Edinburgh club and an institution within the city and Scottish football. We should be owned and run by local people. Even under a mega wealthy Saudi owner we would never become a global brand. Never. Some would say this is parochial and small minded, but that is my belief.

You could go on a merry, short term ride with a wealthy Suadi owner but it would not end well. If any silverware was won it would be 100% down to having an overseas wealthy owner. For example the Yam, their last 3 Scottish Cup trophies is totally down to Romanov and being able to take advantage of a lack of organisation, competence and guidelines in Scottish Football. Christ, they could not even pay their players at times and managed to get a £40m debt written off. Take away Romanov and they have not won any major silverware in Scottish football for nearly 60 years.

I've already lost a bit of faith and affection for Hibs under Ron. Under a Saudi owner it would be worse.

[O'Rourke3]

If Ron ever sells to a Saudi owner the Hibs support would have zero influence over it and would be powerless to stop it.

I would not approve, however I could not stop supporting Hibs. I'm a Hibee for life.

.
"
I was going to type this bit. I'd probably still support the team but moan about all the new fans that only came after we had money. As Van Morrison once said stated "It's too late to stop now"

[Halmyre Hibee]

I remember a Saudi Arabian national visiting our workplace in the mid 80’s and we got talking about football. I asked him who his favourite football team was and was surprised when he said Hibs. I asked him why and he said they played in the same colours as his national flag.

[stuart-farquhar]

It's a fair question. I support Hibs. Not the people who own or run the club. Inevitably they come and go. It's a lifelong relationship for me. A marriage with no out, except my own inevitable demise of course.

[Dashing Bob S]

No.

[danhibees1875]

Although I'm no expert on the world of football finance, but at a guess I'd say this must surely be one of the more pointless threads on this forum...

I think a little harsh.

There's justifiable criticism over Saudi Arabi and many countries in the ME on account of historical and current human right violations - there has been some (some say a lot) of progress made on many fronts but regardless SA still has problems with the way they treat the LGBT+ community and their use of the death penalty.

That's why there's criticism of people and organisations working with the ME countries - there or here. The recent WC in Qatar for example.

Clearly though, if the general response to this thread is to be believed, that's not as big an issue as - or can be decompartmentalisd from - the thought of winning more football games.

[jacomo]

Not a chance. I refuse to let politics influence every facet of my life.


It’s exactly this attitude which means politics does influence every aspect of your life! Politicians love nothing more than an apathetic, disinterested electorate.

In answer to the original question, yes I’d stop supporting Hibs if we became the plaything of an oil state. It would be a sad day.

[wookie70]

I'd like to think I would walk away because of my principals but then I shop in Amazon etc so I may well keep supporting. It definitely would be something I would ponder

[BILLYHIBS]

Nope

Bring it on

[vercol36]

the media hate us as it is , lets stick it right up them and go for it, I would love it.

Whit?

Same nonsense spouted by every single conspiracy nut at every single club in the country.

I’d like to see the meeting where the journalists got together and decided they hated Hibs. Peter Hitchens and Owen Jones giggling together like schoolgirls as they make fun of Lee Johnson’s cardigans and Martin Boyle’s overbite 🥴

[OldEast]

It’s exactly this attitude which means politics does influence every aspect of your life! Politicians love nothing more than an apathetic, disinterested electorate.

In answer to the original question, yes I’d stop supporting Hibs if we became the plaything of an oil state. It would be a sad day.

Apathetic eh? Like being a Labour party member for 20 years and once I was convinced Independence was a good thing then an SNP party member for the next 26 years. Like being a union member for 46 years? Like being a shop steward? Like standing on picket lines? Like being a Citizens advice volunteer advisor?
No need to tell me what politicians love my friend ok. I've acknowledged further up the thread that politics infiltrates almost every facet of our lives from birth to death. I deal with that how I can. I will not let it stop me from supporting my team.

[theonlywayisup]

If Ron ever sells to a Saudi owner the Hibs support would have zero influence over it and would be powerless to stop it.

I would not approve, however I could not stop supporting Hibs. I'm a Hibee for life.

Having a Saudi owner, even our current American owner is not what Hibs are. We are an Edinburgh club and an institution within the city and Scottish football. We should be owned and run by local people. Even under a mega wealthy Saudi owner we would never become a global brand. Never. Some would say this is parochial and small minded, but that is my belief.

You could go on a merry, short term ride with a wealthy Suadi owner but it would not end well. If any silverware was won it would be 100% down to having an overseas wealthy owner. For example the Yam, their last 3 Scottish Cup trophies is totally down to Romanov and being able to take advantage of a lack of organisation, competence and guidelines in Scottish Football. Christ, they could not even pay their players at times and managed to get a £40m debt written off. Take away Romanov and they have not won any major silverware in Scottish football for nearly 60 years.

I've already lost a bit of faith and affection for Hibs under Ron. Under a Saudi owner it would be worse.

Surely, the win against Rangers in the SC Final in 1998 was pre Romanov.

[theonlywayisup]

Let me get this right, lots of Hibs fans were against the thought of Red Bull taking over Hibs and investing in us, but happily accept Saudi Arabi investment. I'm assuming the former was because we'd be called the RB Hibernian.

If the choice was to stagnate and decline like a Dunfermline or grow and watch better players playing at Easter Road, I know what I'd prefer.

[heretoday]

I'm running out of self-righteousness.
Praise be to Allah!

[Since90+2]

Let me get this right, lots of Hibs fans were against the thought of Red Bull taking over Hibs and investing in us, but happily accept Saudi Arabi investment. I'm assuming the former was because we'd be called the RB Hibernian.

If the choice was to stagnate and decline like a Dunfermline or grow and watch better players playing at Easter Road, I know what I'd prefer.

For me personally, there are a few things which are untouchable. Red Bull clubs are named after their city, so it would likely be RB Edinburgh rather than RB Hibernian.

The clubs name, the club colours and the design of the home top. Those things are what make Hibs the club they are.

With Red Bull they'd be changing all 3, in this fantasy scenario it's not been proposed the Saudis would do the same

[hibsbollah]

For me personally, there are a few things which are untouchable. Red Bull clubs are named after their city, so it would likely be RB Edinburgh rather than RB Hibernian.

The clubs name, the club colours and the design of the home top. Those things are what make Hibs the club they are.

With Red Bull they'd be changing all 3, in this fantasy scenario it's not been proposed the Saudis would do the same

…but in this hypothetical scenario, if a Scottish journalist criticized crown prince Al Dismember on the evening news website say, like Khassoghi did,he/she might be a tad concerned next time he goes to an embassy in a foreign country to get his/her passport renewed. That’s not likely to happen with Red Bull. So even if you get to keep your club name club colours and crest and that, you might be losing something more fundamental by taking the Saudi option.

[Since90+2]

…but in this hypothetical scenario, if a Scottish journalist criticized crown prince Al Dismember on the evening news website say, like Khassoghi did,he/she might be a tad concerned next time he goes to an embassy in a foreign country to get his/her passport renewed. That’s not likely to happen with Red Bull. So even if you get to keep your club name club colours and crest and that, you might be losing something more fundamental by taking the Saudi option.

That's a bit of a leap.

It's fairly straightforward for me, Red Bull would change the entire identity of the club, a middle Eastern owner would pump money in but the fundamentals of the club (name, badge, colours, strip) would remain the same.

[danhibees1875]

That's a bit of a leap.

It's fairly straightforward for me, Red Bell would change the entire identity of the club, a middle Eastern owner would pump money in but the fundamentals of the club (name, badge, colours, strip) would remain the same.

That's how I'd framed these two hypothetical scenarios too. :agree:

[Hibbyradge]

Surely, the win against Rangers in the SC Final in 1998 was pre Romanov.

That's a myth.

Like the moon landings.

[grunt]

I'd like to thank the OP for setting in train a really interesting discussion. It has made me think about the nature of being a fan, and the extent to which liking one thing - a lot - allows / enables me to accept other things which otherwise I would perhaps not have accepted.

It has echoes in other parts of my life, for example music, where people I have idolised in my youth have shown themselves to be less than wonderful in their older lives. I'm thinking of Roger Waters, Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, but we will all have examples from our own experiences.

Can you separate your support for a club or band from the political issues surrounding or espoused by that club or artist?

Fascinating discussion, many thanks.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If Ron ever sells to a Saudi owner the Hibs support would have zero influence over it and would be powerless to stop it.

I would not approve, however I could not stop supporting Hibs. I'm a Hibee for life.

Having a Saudi owner, even our current American owner is not what Hibs are. We are an Edinburgh club and an institution within the city and Scottish football. We should be owned and run by local people. Even under a mega wealthy Saudi owner we would never become a global brand. Never. Some would say this is parochial and small minded, but that is my belief.

You could go on a merry, short term ride with a wealthy Suadi owner but it would not end well. If any silverware was won it would be 100% down to having an overseas wealthy owner. For example the Yam, their last 3 Scottish Cup trophies is totally down to Romanov and being able to take advantage of a lack of organisation, competence and guidelines in Scottish Football. Christ, they could not even pay their players at times and managed to get a £40m debt written off. Take away Romanov and they have not won any major silverware in Scottish football for nearly 60 years.

I've already lost a bit of faith and affection for Hibs under Ron. Under a Saudi owner it would be worse.

Jeezo mate. The difference even between a Saudi owner and the likes of Romanov is that at least the Saudi owner's money would have been come by honestly, or at least as honestly as it can be in the murky world of international business .. say what you like about Saudi Arabia but at least nobody can claim they don't own the oil they sell.

As for the rest of it. Football in this country has been in the main utterly dominated by two clubs whose wealth in a large part is based on massive supports attracted to them by a historic sectarian divide and both clubs make fortunes on the back of it.
Even if that isn't the main reason folk choose to follow them these days the fact remains that the other clubs, especially west of Livingston, lose thousands of potential fans to them ... the TV and press coverage they get is double that of all the other clubs put together and that gives them an added advantage in attracting young fans. You don't hear them moaning that their success is achieved in large part through vast spending power achieved at the expense of other clubs ... How many folk do you think leave the Motherwell FC catchment area of Motherwell and Wishaw every weekend to go to Ibrox or Celtic park? Never mind all parts of Ayrshire.

In that football environment Hibs and the others have been forced to live with for over a hundred years, if some billionaire was to rock up at Easter Road and within a few years win us the treble you wouldn't be able to find my regret over how that success was achieved with the worlds most powerful microscope.

[A Hi-Bee]

Bring on the cash, be good to have camel races up and down Easter Rd as well.
:thumbsup:

[Kato]

Surely, the win against Rangers in the SC Final in 1998 was pre Romanov.It was. However the pieman ran £20m of debt up winning that and during subsequent seasons, which Romanov paid off using money he stole from investors in his toy bank.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibees1973]

Surely, the win against Rangers in the SC Final in 1998 was pre Romanov.

Yeah you are right, thanks for correcting me.

As a subsequent poster commented, prior to Romanov taking over The Pieman racked up a debt in excess of £20m through dire management of the Yam and providing stack loads of cash for players and wages for Jeffries. To the point where he accepted an offer from Cala to buy the land their stadium stands on.

There is not any doubt that their last 3 Scottish Cups were bought on a mountain of debt which brought them to their knees.

[jacomo]

Apathetic eh? Like being a Labour party member for 20 years and once I was convinced Independence was a good thing then an SNP party member for the next 26 years. Like being a union member for 46 years? Like being a shop steward? Like standing on picket lines? Like being a Citizens advice volunteer advisor?
No need to tell me what politicians love my friend ok. I've acknowledged further up the thread that politics infiltrates almost every facet of our lives from birth to death. I deal with that how I can. I will not let it stop me from supporting my team.


Not saying it’s easy, but all it takes for them to win is for the likes of us to shrug our shoulders and look the other way.

F*** the takeover of football by petro-states and political actors.

[Glory Lurker]

I was genuinely, and I mean this, genuinely disappointed that there wasn't a backlash in the Hearts support when Romanov bought them. He was obviously dodgy and FCUM had only happened a couple of years before that, which I thought would be an inspiration for some.

If we were ever to become a plaything for a dodgist I'd be like snaw aff a dyke.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It presents an ethical dilemma for sure. I really don't know how I would react. In my heart I would know it's morally wrong to have any kind of relationship with a regime like Saudi Arabia, but it would be difficult to walk away from supporting the club. It would be a difficult moment, and I can't promise I would do what I thought morally right. I hope I would, but I can't promise.

[hibbydog]

I’ve always thought that foreign billionaires buying clubs is vulgar, unfair and I wish they would hurry up and buy Hibs

[OldEast]

Not saying it’s easy, but all it takes for them to win is for the likes of us to shrug our shoulders and look the other way.

F*** the takeover of football by petro-states and political actors.

OK I'm pretty disappointed by your response to my post. Thought you may have had more to offer. Let's discuss... "Them to win" and "the likes of us" your response was to my initial post so knowing what I said who are you talking about? You know you're on a loser with me and you also know I pretty much agree with you so stop digging your ever deepening hole.

[The Baldmans Comb]

At the moment Hibs are under USA ownership which is 24th on the worlds corruption and human rights index and day to day English control who are 18th in the table.

Saudi Arabia are ranked 54th so definitely it would be a moral step backwards from not a particularly impressive starting point.

[DIXIHIBS]

Will always support hibs no matter who actually owns them at any given point in time. Clubs change players, managers and owners constantly. The only constant is the fans. Fans a big clubs down south get a hard time for supporting dodgy owners but what are they meant to do? Walk away from the club that they and their families have followed all their lives...no chance. Foreign owners care about a global brand not local, lifelong fans. There are literally billions of potential fans out there who will buy into that brand through shirt, tv etc etc. I hope it never comes near scotland, but if it does hibs is my team, always, no matter who owns them.

[OldEast]

Will always support hibs no matter who actually owns them at any given point in time. Clubs change players, managers and owners constantly. The only constant is the fans. Fans a big clubs down south get a hard time for supporting dodgy owners but what are they meant to do? Walk away from the club that they and their families have followed all their lives...no chance. Foreign owners care about a global brand not local, lifelong fans. There are literally billions of potential fans out there who will buy into that brand through shirt, tv etc etc. I hope it never comes near scotland, but if it does hibs is my team, always, no matter who owns them.

Why would anyone disagree with this?

[vercol36]

Why would anyone disagree with this?

Because if my son, on becoming a teenager, were to ask me “Dad, why do you support a club run by Saudis?”, and I was to respond, “because my dad and grandad and great grandad supported them”, the answer would be, “So what?”

Yes it’s nice to support a club in solidarity with the memory of your forebears, but it’s hard to justify it when your ticket money is being spent on whipping women in Jeddah whose crime was allowing themselves to be raped.

I’d be supporting my local juniors team in a flash. And in three or four generations, my descendants would proudly be talking about their family’s long-time support for Newtongrange Star. Unless they get bought by the Saudis too

[DIXIHIBS]

Because if my son, on becoming a teenager, were to ask me “Dad, why do you support a club run by Saudis?”, and I was to respond, “because my dad and grandad and great grandad supported them”, the answer would be, “So what?”

Yes it’s nice to support a club in solidarity with the memory of your forebears, but it’s hard to justify it when your ticket money is being spent on whipping women in Jeddah whose crime was allowing themselves to be raped.

I’d be supporting my local juniors team in a flash. And in three or four generations, my descendants would proudly be talking about their family’s long-time support for Newtongrange Star. Unless they get bought by the Saudis too

Hope you dont drive a car that uses saudi oil? Hope you dont wear clothes made in china...etc etc. Where does it end.

[OldEast]

Hope you dont drive a car that uses saudi oil? Hope you dont wear clothes made in china...etc etc. Where does it end.

That'll do thanks. I should have answered but I'm losing the will to live here.

[vercol36]

Hope you dont drive a car that uses saudi oil? Hope you dont wear clothes made in china...etc etc. Where does it end.

I try incrementally to do things that fit my moral profile. You’re right, the fuel one is really tricky. I have tried for several years to cut down substantially on using my car at all, for several reasons! However, I don’t see my failure in that space as a reason to fail in another.

I’m sorry lads. Dropping a fitba team is a lot easier than sourcing moral fuel and clothing

[vercol36]

That'll do thanks. I should have answered but I'm losing the will to live here.

A bit unfortunate you’re getting so troubled, I think we can all afford to respect each others opinions here

[HarpOnHibee]

I'd be forever furious towards anyone who hands our great club over to the hands of slave owning tyrants and I wouldn't be back until they're gone.

[DIXIHIBS]

I try incrementally to do things that fit my moral profile. You’re right, the fuel one is really tricky. I have tried for several years to cut down substantially on using my car at all, for several reasons! However, I don’t see my failure in that space as a reason to fail in another.

I’m sorry lads. Dropping a fitba team is a lot easier than sourcing moral fuel and clothing

So if i choose to get rid of my car but still go to the football...thats okay. If everyone done the 'morally right thing' we would be back living in the dark ages...no nuclear, oil,gas...no trading with any morally corrupt countries. Got to live in the real world, not an idealistic one.

[vercol36]

So if i choose to get rid of my car but still go to the football...thats okay. If everyone done the 'morally right thing' we would be back living in the dark ages...no nuclear, oil,gas...no trading with any morally corrupt countries. Got to live in the real world, not an idealistic one.

The world can’t right itself in the blink of an eye. Human progress takes millennia. But if I can make one little change (i.e. not giving my ticket money to a bunch of sinister dictators) during my lifetime then I will do so. I’m not going to say ‘Och I give them money when I buy fuel, I might as well give them even more money with my season ticket’. Incremental change.

I imagine it’s the same reason you separate your rubbish into recycling? You’re not going to save the planet in your lifetime, but it’s part of a wider movement which might eventually do just that

[DIXIHIBS]

The world can’t right itself in the blink of an eye. Human progress takes millennia. But if I can make one little change (i.e. not giving my ticket money to a bunch of sinister dictators) during my lifetime then I will do so. I’m not going to say ‘Och I give them money when I buy fuel, I might as well give them even more money with my season ticket’. Incremental change.

I imagine it’s the same reason you separate your rubbish into recycling? You’re not going to save the planet in your lifetime, but it’s part of a wider movement which might eventually do just that

Fair comment...but im still going to choose the hibees👍

[OldEast]

A bit unfortunate you’re getting so troubled, I think we can all afford to respect each others opinions here

Yes fine. I'm pretty old fashioned and find the self righteous hypocrisy here and other forums laughable. As I said earlier, all in or not at all. You can pick and choose what you're outraged at but unless you're an off grid hermit or a monk it amounts to nothing.

[HarpOnHibee]

Fair comment...but im still going to choose the hibees👍

There wouldn't be a hibees in my opinion. There's so much more to our football club than simply playing football. We're a club with deep rooted values that sets our club apart and shapes our overall identify. That identity would be quickly lost.

[Victor]

What if Hibs were bought by a Scottish person, with money borrowed from the Saudi’s, or earned from a business that trades in oil?

[vercol36]

Fair comment...but im still going to choose the hibees👍

Fair play Dixihibs. I suppose there’s a wider question here around how much a government should be the one guiding these things, so that citizens don’t have to live their lives as if they were Gandhi! In the same way that we are now mandated to recycle, maybe governments should be preventing terrible foreign governments from buying our clubs. Makes this whole thread moot!

[vercol36]

What if Hibs were bought by a Scottish person, with money borrowed from the Saudi’s, or earned from a business that trades in oil?

Good point Victor. If I’d managed to spot it, I’d be against it too! But I’m not sure how much time I’d have put into researching a Scottish owner and their means of cash generation

[Smartie]

Overall I’m fairly principled and I think I’d be against it, but I can’t pretend that spectacular football, crushing Rangers, Celtic and Hearts and the threat of decapitation hanging over Keith Jackson wouldn’t make me think long and hard.

[A Hi-Bee]

What if Hibs were bought by someone who could afford to buy them?
Would it matter what nationality he or she or it was?.

[HarpOnHibee]

What if Hibs were bought by someone who could afford to buy them?
Would it matter what nationality he or she or it was?.

Nationality is never the issue. It's how they've obtained that wealth. It just so happens that the vast majority of obscenely rich Saudi Arabians have built their empire on the backs of foreign workers who are effectively duped into going there, only to be hit by taxes and expenses that ensure they don't actually make any money for years, if at all. Not to mention the deplorable living conditions provided by the employer.