The "Throwing players under a bus" cliché

[Hibbyradge]

There's been a lot of criticism on here towards Johnson for this, but I must have missed all those interviews because I haven't heard him do anything of the sort.

I've heard him say that performances weren't good enough and on one occasion say that the players hadn't been good enough but those things were true and the players should just suck it up, imo.

Have I missed something more significant?

Also, I clearly remember managers being heavily criticised and mocked for talking about the positive aspects of performances in games we've been poor and lost, so it seems that whatever they say after a defeat, they're always wrong.

[CockneyRebel]

There's been a lot of criticism on here towards Johnson for this, but I must have missed all those interviews because I haven't heard him do anything of the sort.

I've heard him say that performances weren't good enough and on one occasion say that the players hadn't been good enough but those things were true and the players should just suck it up, imo.

Have I missed something more significant?

Also, I clearly remember managers being heavily criticised and mocked for talking about the positive aspects of performances in games we've been poor and lost, so it seems that whatever they say after a defeat, they're always wrong.

It's mainly folk with an agenda against LJ that jump at every opportunity to dis him. They don't see (or more likely don't want to see) anything remotely positive. It's certainly ok to have an opinion but it gets pretty boring when he gets attacked for both praising and complaining about player performance. It doesn't seem to bother LJ too much right enough.

[Iain G]

There's been a lot of criticism on here towards Johnson for this, but I must have missed all those interviews because I haven't heard him do anything of the sort.

I've heard him say that performances weren't good enough and on one occasion say that the players hadn't been good enough but those things were true and the players should just suck it up, imo.

Have I missed something more significant?

Also, I clearly remember managers being heavily criticised and mocked for talking about the positive aspects of performances in games we've been poor and lost, so it seems that whatever they say after a defeat, they're always wrong.

We know he prefers to thrown them under the tram than a bus :greengrin

[greenlex]

After the defeat at Tynecastle he was very critical of the players. Deadwood being cleared . Sick fed up of the mediocracy. Followed it up by not even going into the dressing room after the game. Not taking any responsibility for starting with the wrong team and tactics. He may have been correct about some of the players but to publicly call them out and not address them after the final whistle is IMO as bad as it gets.

[jeffers]

After the defeat at Tynecastle he was very critical of the players. Deadwood being cleared . Sick fed up of the mediocracy. Followed it up by not even going into the dressing room after the game. Not taking any responsibility for starting with the wrong team and tactics. He may have been correct about some of the players but to publicly call them out and not address them after the final whistle is IMO as bad as it gets.

You clearly have an agenda against Johnson to go quoting facts like that :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

After the defeat at Tynecastle he was very critical of the players. Deadwood being cleared . Sick fed up of the mediocracy. Followed it up by not even going into the dressing room after the game. Not taking any responsibility for starting with the wrong team and tactics. He may have been correct about some of the players but to publicly call them out and not address them after the final whistle is IMO as bad as it gets.

But with that public criticism, plus moving on a few individuals that weren’t helping the team dynamic, you could argue it’s now working?

He’s just a flawed individual trying his best. I’m not convinced he’s the best manager we could get on our budget but now he’s here he has my backing.

[JimBHibees]

But with that public criticism, plus moving on a few individuals that weren’t helping the team dynamic, you could argue it’s now working?

He’s just a flawed individual trying his best. I’m not convinced he’s the best manager we could get on our budget but now he’s here he has my backing.

Kind of where I am he has clearly made mistakes but who hasn't. Give him a proper chance and see where we are at the end of the season.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12780677/hibernian-lee-johnsons-criticism-was-blown-out-of-proportion-says-kyle-magennis

Magennis gives some context to the ten players needing to go, saying that these conversations had already taken place with the individuals concerned.

For anyone needing refreshed as to what he actually said, have a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzZhTkSH2AM

Nothing he says here, I could disagree with.

"I won’t be the first manager not to have gone in the dressing room after a game for the greater good. Sometimes one-on-one conversations are good. I think the manager not being in a dressing room can sometimes be conducive to players being a bit more honest with each other and themselves. There are various ways and different techniques to improve, and we try to use a balance of those techniques. It’s all for the greater good of the team, getting the next result, and ensuring that the confidence from the good elements of our performances remains.”

or here,

We are not a million miles off. One or two or three good players (in) — five, six, seven, eight, 10 outs - it doesn’t matter to me. I’d rather have the quality in the XI and bump up the young players.

"They are not quite ready yet, that’s just one physical nature, but we do have some quality players in there. That will serve us well in 18 months to two years’ time but senior players have got to step up.

"We can’t keep being average at best. For a club like this it’s just not good enough. Everyone needs to tell themselves some home truths.”
"

[snedzuk]

We know he prefers to thrown them under the tram than a bus :greengrin

So they can wait to death.

[Since452]

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12780677/hibernian-lee-johnsons-criticism-was-blown-out-of-proportion-says-kyle-magennis

Magennis gives some context to the ten players needing to go, saying that these conversations had already taken place with the individuals concerned.

For anyone needing refreshed as to what he actually said, have a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzZhTkSH2AM

Nothing he says here, I could disagree with.

"I won’t be the first manager not to have gone in the dressing room after a game for the greater good. Sometimes one-on-one conversations are good. I think the manager not being in a dressing room can sometimes be conducive to players being a bit more honest with each other and themselves. There are various ways and different techniques to improve, and we try to use a balance of those techniques. It’s all for the greater good of the team, getting the next result, and ensuring that the confidence from the good elements of our performances remains.”

or here,

We are not a million miles off. One or two or three good players (in) — five, six, seven, eight, 10 outs - it doesn’t matter to me. I’d rather have the quality in the XI and bump up the young players.

"They are not quite ready yet, that’s just one physical nature, but we do have some quality players in there. That will serve us well in 18 months to two years’ time but senior players have got to step up.

"We can’t keep being average at best. For a club like this it’s just not good enough. Everyone needs to tell themselves some home truths.”
"

Agree with everything said there.

[greenlex]

Agree with everything said there.
So do I. Saying it publicly is the bit I detest. It’s not good man management. What would happen if those players refused to either leave or go out on loan? We’d be another 6 months to a year behind where we should be. Go about your business. I’d be willing to bet he has never acknowledged his own shortcomings publicly. I’d go as far as to say he won’t have even admitted them privately. He has my backing for now but I’m far from convinced we are on the right horse.

[Hibees1973]

You clearly have an agenda against Johnson to go quoting facts like that :greengrin

Liked that.

greenlex......stand by for getting insults such as 'Must be a Yam', 'Don't be so negative', etc being thrown at you.

[Iain G]

So they can wait to death.

It's a very slow and torturous death

[Hibbyradge]

So do I. Saying it publicly is the bit I detest. It’s not good man management. What would happen if those players refused to either leave or go out on loan? We’d be another 6 months to a year behind where we should be. Go about your business. I’d be willing to bet he has never acknowledged his own shortcomings publicly. I’d go as far as to say he won’t have even admitted them privately. He has my backing for now but I’m far from convinced we are on the right horse.

Sometimes I think players are too mollycoddled and that bad performances or attitudes should be called out in public. It's not as if he caused embarrassment by naming an individual which I usually wouldn't agree with, but generally criticising a group of players after a dreadful performance seems reasonable and might be just what's needed for some.

I remember Alex Ferguson berating his players publicly after they'd beaten Rangers to win the cup, I think, and he was very vocal in criticising his team on several other occasions.

As far as not going into the dressing room is concerned, Ferguson didn't even speak to his players for 2 weeks after they blew the treble one year. I don't think he's ever been criticised for bad management.

Finally, we have no idea if Johnson has admitted his failings privately so using that as ammunition against him is very unfair. However, I also very much doubt that it's true.

[greenlex]

Sometimes I think players are too mollycoddled and that bad performances or attitudes should be called out in public. It's not as if he caused embarrassment by naming an individual which I usually wouldn't agree with, but generally criticising a group of players after a dreadful performance seems reasonable and might be just what's needed for some.

I remember Alex Ferguson berating his players publicly after they'd beaten Rangers to win the cup, I think, and he was very vocal in criticising his team on several other occasions.

As far as not going into the dressing room is concerned, Ferguson didn't even speak to his players for 2 weeks after they blew the treble one year. I don't think he's ever been criticised for bad management.

Finally, we have no idea if Johnson has admitted his failings privately so using that as ammunition against him is very unfair. However, I also very much doubt that it's true.
We’re gonna have to disagree. I’m all for calling them out and giving them the hairdryer treatment but behind closeddoors. (See David Martindale) but not in public straight after a game. Especially when team selection and tactics were as much to blame for the result as player performance.

[Hibbyradge]

We’re gonna have to disagree. I’m all for calling them out and giving them the hairdryer treatment but behind closeddoors. (See David Martindale) but not in public straight after a game. Especially when team selection and tactics were as much to blame for the result as player performance.

Yes, I agree, we disagree!:greengrin

By the way, a quick Google gave me this...

"When asked where the finger of blame should be pointed, Johnson continued: “First and foremost it’s 100 per cent me. I sent the team to press in a certain way and got it wrong, it’s as simple as that and I have to take responsibility".

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lee-johnson-lambasts-timid-hibs-questions-psychology-speaks-of-fear-and-points-finger-of-blame-at-himself-after-celtic-loss-3881375

I don't have particularly strong feelings for the guy, but I just think some of the criticism is over the top and unfair.

[WhileTheChief..]

It's mainly folk with an agenda against LJ that jump at every opportunity to dis him. They don't see (or more likely don't want to see) anything remotely positive. It's certainly ok to have an opinion but it gets pretty boring when he gets attacked for both praising and complaining about player performance. It doesn't seem to bother LJ too much right enough.

What do you mean with folk 'having an agenda' against LJ?

Plenty would like to see a new manager if that's what you mean, but an agenda against him? I've not got a clue what that means!

[superfurryhibby]

So do I. Saying it publicly is the bit I detest. It’s not good man management. What would happen if those players refused to either leave or go out on loan? We’d be another 6 months to a year behind where we should be. Go about your business. I’d be willing to bet he has never acknowledged his own shortcomings publicly. I’d go as far as to say he won’t have even admitted them privately. He has my backing for now but I’m far from convinced we are on the right horse.



If that's your backing him, I'd hate to see you vehemently wanting him out the door.
Personally I hope he goes home after a defeat, dons the hair shirt and underpants, having first rubbed his bawz with fresh chilli, before ramming a tube of deep heat up his jacksie.

He then comes on here to read what our fans think of him :-)

[Hibbyradge]

If that's your backing him, I'd hate to see you vehemently wanting him out the door.
Personally I hope he goes home after a defeat, dons the hair shirt and underpants, having first rubbed his bawz with fresh chilli, before ramming a tube of deep heat up his jacksie.



That sounds awesome, tbh.

[jacomo]

You clearly have an agenda against Johnson to go quoting facts like that :greengrin


Yup anyone concerned about the fact our form is inconsistent, we’re out of both cups and can’t get near our city rivals clearly has an agenda. There is no other possible explanation.

[jacomo]

Sometimes I think players are too mollycoddled and that bad performances or attitudes should be called out in public. It's not as if he caused embarrassment by naming an individual which I usually wouldn't agree with, but generally criticising a group of players after a dreadful performance seems reasonable and might be just what's needed for some.

I remember Alex Ferguson berating his players publicly after they'd beaten Rangers to win the cup, I think, and he was very vocal in criticising his team on several other occasions.

As far as not going into the dressing room is concerned, Ferguson didn't even speak to his players for 2 weeks after they blew the treble one year. I don't think he's ever been criticised for bad management.

Finally, we have no idea if Johnson has admitted his failings privately so using that as ammunition against him is very unfair. However, I also very much doubt that it's true.


More to the point, we all remember Terry Butcher.

Publicly calling for a clear out is often the last throw of the dice.

[hibsbollah]

If that's your backing him, I'd hate to see you vehemently wanting him out the door.
Personally I hope he goes home after a defeat, dons the hair shirt and underpants, having first rubbed his bawz with fresh chilli, before ramming a tube of deep heat up his jacksie.



A man needs a hobby.

[Hibbyradge]

More to the point, we all remember Terry Butcher.

Publicly calling for a clear out is often the last throw of the dice.

This is Johnson's interview directly after the hearts game. I don't think he said anything that was wrong or uncalled for. I may have missed another interview, but that's all I can find at the moment.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12778597/hearts-3-0-hibernian-not-good-enough-says-lee-johnson

[KWJ]

So do I. Saying it publicly is the bit I detest. It’s not good man management. What would happen if those players refused to either leave or go out on loan? We’d be another 6 months to a year behind where we should be. Go about your business. I’d be willing to bet he has never acknowledged his own shortcomings publicly. I’d go as far as to say he won’t have even admitted them privately. He has my backing for now but I’m far from convinced we are on the right horse.

He literally says it publicly in the post that you're agreeing with.