Are We Buying Lee’s Pitch?

[Dashing Bob S]

The post match comments suggested that he was doing his best but had little faith in the club hierarchy. It was always going to come down to a managers v owners affair in light of our recent record.

So how much blame do we apportion to managers or owners?

This isn’t as cut and dried as it seems. I’d like to think Johnson would thrive outside the obviously dodgy Hibs environment, but I believed Ross would, so more fool me.

[MWHIBBIES]

About 95% owners fault.

[King conrad]

I honestly think Johnson will get it right given time. He's right on alot of things.

We have far too big a squad with alot of average players,We could easily let go a dozen players and no one would be bothered.
We would be saving on 12 players wages and put that towards wages on 3/4 quality players which would improve us massively.

Think of the wages we are throwing at this development squad aswell, yes they won't be on big money but it all adds up with a bloated squad.

Ron Gordon needs to accept this strategy of picking up young players and neglecting the first team squad isn't working.

Trim the squad right down and bring in quality and we will see a different Hibs

[Pretty Boy]

The manager works as part of a structure. Surely even those who believe the manager has to shoulder a fair bit of responsibility for the current situation (myself included) are also able to see the structure is flawed.

You can't bring in 20 something players in such a short time period, already have moved some of them on, largely rely on guys who predate these new signings and still be losing a hell of a lot of football matches and blame it on bad luck or it be 'just one of those things'.

We need to get back to the director of football, head of recruitment & head coach model. We need to sort out this development team and either get them playing games or look at the Lowland League route and we need someone overseeing the whole thing. As it stands we have a football manager and a CEO with a glaring hole in the middle and no one shouldering overall responsibility for the football operation. That's failed so far and it's doomed to further failure unless whoever put this current shambles in place is willing to swallow their pride and make the change.

[Sir David Gray]

I don't think Johnson has helped but I put the ultimate blame solely at Ron Gordon's door.

[Northernhibee]

Yeah, I am. What he’s saying seems to link up with what we can see with our eyes.

I realise I may very well be wrong on this but he’s a long way from the main person to blame for where we are just now.

[Torto7062]

What's the dimensions of his pitch ?
I've only got room for a 5 aside pitch in my garden 😳😉

[andrew70]

No chance. He’s the problem.

[Golden Bear]

Crap professionals with poor attitudes is where the main blame lies. How they arrived at Hibs in the first place is something which should be subjected to scrutiny.

[jeffers]

95% on him. He’s not a rookie like Maloney. He came in told everyone he’d watched us beforehand, told us to give him 12 games, now it’s a number of windows he’s telling us. Was told the importance of the LC to the club but was so arrogant he thought he knew best, treated the group stage like pre season training matches and we all know what happened. I could go on, but for me any experienced manager who comes in and accepts the bs about our recruitment is entirely accountable. Not for a minute suggesting we bring him back but I can’t see Lennon working under those conditions, nor McInnes.

[Real Emerald]

The structure, owner and recruitment policy is definitely responsible for the shambles in my view. We have signed so many duds which leaves the manager with the same players that got the last 2 managers sacked. That needs to change but how much blame LJ should take is anyone’s guess. He’s definitely played a part in the failure but he can only work with the squad he’s got and it’s not very good. His days are numbered rightly or wrongly.

[lyonhibs]

He's swinging punches like a well beaten boxer going on a desperate late flurry. 1 or 2 are going to land.

9 *losses* in 11 is one of the worst runs I can remember, it's not only 2 wins in 11 and a few draws sprinkled on top.

He's got to go IMO

[Scorrie]

Not for me. Shocking lineup yesterday and his tactics are awful.

[Cod Boy]

As I’ve posted on another thread lose to Motherwell on Sunday and the whole league will have recorded a victory against Hibs

[ScottB]

Don’t rate him as a manager, but the recruitment has been poor.

A better manager might at least play folk in position in a system that suited them, instead of getting repeated doings before moaning about a lack of football IQ.

[BH Hibs]

No

[Scotty Leither]

The manager works as part of a structure. Surely even those who believe the manager has to shoulder a fair bit of responsibility for the current situation (myself included) are also able to see the structure is flawed.

You can't bring in 20 something players in such a short time period, already have moved some of them on, largely rely on guys who predate these new signings and still be losing a hell of a lot of football matches and blame it on bad luck or it be 'just one of those things'.

We need to get back to the director of football, head of recruitment & head coach model. We need to sort out this development team and either get them playing games or look at the Lowland League route and we need someone overseeing the whole thing. As it stands we have a football manager and a CEO with a glaring hole in the middle and no one shouldering overall responsibility for the football operation. That's failed so far and it's doomed to further failure unless whoever put this current shambles in place is willing to swallow their pride and make the change.

Put this suggestion in writing to the Board, PB, or better still put yourself forward for a job, as this is the most sense I've read on here in a long time.

[BoyledEgg]

At the start of the season he told us to judge him after 11 or 12 games. Those games are past now and he’s blaming everyone else apart from
himself. The performances have got worse since the start of the season, the players might not be up to it but it’s his job as head coach to coach these players and make them better, that’s what good coaches do.

These are professional football players who know how to play the game but LJ has them running around the pitch with no structure or organisation.

If he thinks the players aren’t good enough to play the type of football he wants them to play, then he should be playing a type of football that these players can play to get results, until he gets his own players in.

[CMac1988]

The footballing structure bears a huge amount of responsibility for where we are. Ron removed what was ultimately a better model as recruitment was still subpar and he will have wanted his own people in. This was massively naive and showed a total lack of understanding with regards to what was required in terms of managing football operations. He'd have been better trying to find a way to improve what we had and bring in someone fresh with experience rather than trying to sneak in his son to a role he should be nowhere near. We've got a dreadful squad which is bursting at the seams and nowhere for most of them to play given the cluster **** that is arranging fixtures. Dare I say it but we need to follow what Hearts have done and put a squad in to the lowland league or another competition as we don't seem to be able to arrange fixtures at a level good enough to give players any kinds of development outside of ****ing about at East Mains. These aren't things that have become obvious now. People have been saying the same since the summer.

As for Lee I don't necessarily disagree with what he's now saying but it screams of desperation. You can't spend most of the season saying you'll get better from the players as the quality's there and then turn around and say mediocrity is rife. We've went from him saying he has the final say on signing to him now saying everyone is mediocre. Right now we're worse than mediocre and he doesn't have a clue to fix it. Rather than work with what he's got and be smarter with how he addresses our issues in interviews until he's able to change it he's now put himself in a situation that the squad given its mentality will somehow end up worse as they down tolls no longer wanting to play for him. Someone somewhere despite our quality must be able to get more from this squad. There's a few obvious changes I'd make to shore things up but there's no consistency and him trying to play a style which next to no one is of a quality that they're capable of doing so is why we're struggling more than we should be.

He needs to go but so do a few others. Board needs a shake also. Everyone sitting on their hands bowing yes to Ron is half the problem. Appreciate he put himself forward earlier in the season but he was given an easy time of it when it was plain to see the warning signs. How no one else at the club could see them or do anything about them needs addressed.

[Torto7]

If any of us thought we had the chance of signing Boyle, Marshall and McGeady before the season everyone would cream their drawers. Ron Gordon has invested, he's been let down by a succession of clowns and imposters in the dressing room starting with those who can't be removed Hanlon and Stevenson.

[Iain G]

What's the dimensions of his pitch ?
I've only got room for a 5 aside pitch in my garden 😳😉

You divot!

[Numptie]

Been rumours since day one that Hanlon doesn’t like LJ or his tactics.

[JammyDoidger]

99% boards fault signing all these guys for this 'development team' that don't actually play any games, ludicrous. We have so many players hanging about taking a wage that are nowhere near good enough to play for this football club. Having said that, his team selections are wild. So has to take blame there too. And if he didn't want signings like Tavares, etc then just come out and say that, so everyone knows the score, be straight with the fans.

[B.H.F.C]

Nobody is solely to blame obviously. The decision making of the manager since the break has been horrific.

I don’t think anyone is in a position to really excel as manager in the current structure but he should be doing better than he is IMO. W7, D2 and L11 in the league is horrific.

The whole development team shambles needs some explaining.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Nope. He rarely picks the best 11 to win the match. His team goes behind far too often. Plays players out of position. Plus his interviews are really starting to bug me.

Just because we have sacked managers too early in the past doesn’t mean we have to stick with this one. Keep him in a job he takes us down

[Spike Mandela]

His comments may be accurate but they are the sort of comments that makes manager lose the dressing room. This is the beginning of the end I fear.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Both are culpable, whole management is failing the club and the fans.
Don't trust either going forward sadly.

[Tarrahib]

His comments may be accurate but they are the sort of comments that makes manager lose the dressing room. This is the beginning of the end I fear.
I think that is what Johnson was looking for. Forcing the board to make a decision.

[Northernhibee]

If any of us thought we had the chance of signing Boyle, Marshall and McGeady before the season everyone would cream their drawers. Ron Gordon has invested, he's been let down by a succession of clowns and imposters in the dressing room starting with those who can't be removed Hanlon and Stevenson.
To blame the clubs state on Paul Hanlon and Lewis Stevenson, and it’s worth noting they’re in the team and aren’t dropped as they’re our best options in those two positions and have the experience of over a thousand games, both capped at international level, and three cup winners medals between them, is disrespectful.

If you think that they should be phased out fair enough, we do need to plan for the future, but that’s Yammish behaviour to blame it on them.

[Iain G]

Been rumours since day one that Hanlon doesn’t like LJ or his tactics.

He can **** off then, has-been, slow, former cup winning legend 😉

[Stokesy's on fire]

Been rumours since day one that Hanlon doesn’t like LJ or his tactics.

I heard a rumour he loves LJ and his tactics

[Leith Green]

He can **** off then, has-been, slow, former cup winning legend 😉


He literally has performed above average for 3 seasons if u are lucky. From about 2015/16 until 2018/2019 .. The rest has been a mix of bang average, piss poor , or rag dolled for the best part of the season. I dont get the sentiment with Hanlon , bang average player and should have disappeared a long time ago.

[BH Hibs]

He’s also quoted in the Sun as saying he loves the Gordons and Kensall is doing a great job. He contradicts himself so many times.

[h1bs4life]

Think he should still go but if he is staying want to see some activity in the transfer market .
Johnson been a manager for a while surely he has some decent contacts to get some players even on loan to fit what his ‘ style ‘ of play is.
Although if Mckirdy is an example then alarm bells are ringing.
He has played in Scotland before and now managed for half a season if he doesn’t know what type of player is needed for the game up here then he will never know .

[Greenwich_Hibby]

No, he's a clueless slaver.

We gave Duffy extended time after a Derby and that resulted in relegation, which I believe is a now a very real threat this season.

[Iain G]

Can I just clarify, is he selling his pitch or his Han-Lawn?

[Leith Green]

No, he's a clueless slaver.

We gave Duffy extended time after a Derby and that resulted in relegation, which I believe is a now a very real threat this season.


At least duffys side had the balls to fight back from 2 down in a derby , against a far better Hearts team. And went onto beat them as we tried to battle relegation and they were going for the title. Dont get me wrong , duffy was a ****ing disaster , and many similarities with the scatter gun transfer policy we currently see. Maybe its the magic formula to relegation 🫣

[Stevie Reid]

Lots of problems above him for sure, but I’m hugely disappointed by his time so far (to state the competely obvious).

Given that he played in Scotland before, his continual underestimations of quality of opposition, the quality we require in the door, and what is needed on the park to succeed in a fiercely combative and competitive league like ours, are unforgivable.

He doesn’t seem to have a great deal of tactical nous and certainly doesn’t strike me as the kind of manager who could inspire his players to run through brick walls for him.

Rather than learning from that laundry list of poor mistakes, his decisions - and our performances and results - are getting much worse, instead of any better.

It would take an absolute miracle for him to turn things around at this point, and I don’t believe that any other team in the league would keep employing a manager who had a run like we’ve been on (especially after such a poor start).

He’s been a poorer Hibs manager than the one he replaced - who was sacked for his performance in a similar timeframe.

Many changes are required at every level of the club, and sacking the manager won’t be an instant fix by any means - but I just can’t see any justification for LJ not being one of them to lose his job.

[Smartie]

Been rumours since day one that Hanlon doesn’t like LJ or his tactics.

No idea about the accuracy of the rumour, but Johnson did strip the captaincy from Hanlon early on and give it to a new arrival.

Seemed a pretty bold move to make early on and not one you’d expect to pass without any consequence whatsoever.

[Cracker]

No, he's a clueless slaver.

We gave Duffy extended time after a Derby and that resulted in relegation, which I believe is a now a very real threat this season.

Well said , I agree he’s a cross between Duffy and Butcher, it’s was being said at the beginning of LJ stint that when it is going well it’s all about him when wrong he blames everyone else, I hope the suns take on it is wrong and hibs get him out the door now before it’s too late!

[Unseen work]

Been rumours since day one that Hanlon doesn’t like LJ or his tactics.

Is that why he just lets strikers run past him and go clean through on goal or is incapable of defending crosses to the back post?

[Unseen work]

I agree with the vast majority of things Johnson said yesterday but there’s a couple of things I struggle with.

• The Porteous comment was not required in the slightest and his absence to the game yesterday was suspension and no other reason.

• We made loads of signings in the summer, ones he’s all praised. He’s also praised Ian Gordon and said he was very good at his job. Winning 4 games a row everything was grand but since the crash in form everyone is useless? No matter how mad he/fans think the players are there is no excuse for how bad the run has been and we should have taken much more points especially considering a lot of them were below us at the time

[maturehibby]

No go

[gaz1875]

He started the season in a relaxed tempo which has continued all season (league cup embarrassment). He's now blaming everyone else but it's his team selections and his tactics if any. What happened to the bull**** pressing and chasing down the ball. I don't think I've seen it once this season. That fact that we play well against 10 men sums it up. Against 10 we dominate the midfield because we have more time, against 11 we are slow and ponderous. Many on here have been saying since last season our midfield were slow and don't press, nothing has changed. Get rid.

[Greenio]

His comments may be accurate but they are the sort of comments that makes manager lose the dressing room. This is the beginning of the end I fear.

Agree

We all know once you lose the dressing room as a manager you are done

Shame as I just wanted him to do well but I think the path back from here is too hard for him now

[B.H.F.C]

Agree

We all know once you lose the dressing room as a manager you are done

Shame as I just wanted him to do well but I think the path back from here is too hard for him now

This is where I am.

I actually feel quite conflicted, more because we all know there is problems over and above the manager, but I just can’t see how what he had to say yesterday has any positive impact whatsoever. It’s just a matter of when he goes now for me, I just hope there hasn’t been too much more damage has been done by the time he does.

[fiolex1]

I am not falling for this TBH. Has lost confidence of the players and supporters. Ron will wield the axe and is just a matter of time. I want LJ to be successful but his record of late is something I don’t think he can turnaround. If we ship out 10 and bring one class player I can’t see how this will work. The recruitment has been a disaster leaving us to select players that are not good enough or past it. We need several decent players not just the one and that will take 2-3 transfer windows. My opinion we need somebody in to keep us up and a rebuild from the summer.

[Trinity Hibee]

The issue now is he either needs to be sacked now and give someone else a little time to try and get players in this window OR let LJ get some players in and give him until the summer regardless.

Sacking him in 2-3 weeks leave whoever comes in on a hiding to nothing with the same crap squad.

This group of players have a lot to answer for.

[LeithMike]

95% on him. He’s not a rookie like Maloney. He came in told everyone he’d watched us beforehand, told us to give him 12 games, now it’s a number of windows he’s telling us. Was told the importance of the LC to the club but was so arrogant he thought he knew best, treated the group stage like pre season training matches and we all know what happened. I could go on, but for me any experienced manager who comes in and accepts the bs about our recruitment is entirely accountable. Not for a minute suggesting we bring him back but I can’t see Lennon working under those conditions, nor McInnes.

Agree. That’s what puts me off the DoF model. How do we know the club just brings in a fairly weak front person and things continue on as they are. My preference is for a strong manager to run the club with some help from a sporting director in terms of implementing the manager’s ideas. I think the best person is McInnes but wouldn’t mind somebody else. I’m not sure Lennon is the answer when our squad is so fragile though.

Despite the failings in the club structure, LJ signed up for it, is praising the Gordons and must have some say on signings. I certainly don’t think he’s done a grand job of coaching the team if that’s what he is but there are mitigating circumstances. If you are giving a manager time though you would want something in their history which shows they can succeed. Man Utd only gave Fergie time because of what he done at Aberdeen. There’s nothing really to suggest that LJ will have us performing above the level we are at and it looks like he was brought in because he bought into the recruitment/stats philosophy that the club was peddling.

If we are going to back a manager through hard times I would hope he could say he’s been through it before and turned a club round. McInnes took over Aberdeen at a very low ebb and got them as close as he could to Celtic. He’s not done amazing with Killie but again he’s got them competitive in the Premiership on a small budget having come from a pretty low ebb. That’s the kind of guy who could turn us around if only the hierarchy at the club could forego a bit control.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

The manager works as part of a structure. Surely even those who believe the manager has to shoulder a fair bit of responsibility for the current situation (myself included) are also able to see the structure is flawed.

You can't bring in 20 something players in such a short time period, already have moved some of them on, largely rely on guys who predate these new signings and still be losing a hell of a lot of football matches and blame it on bad luck or it be 'just one of those things'.

We need to get back to the director of football, head of recruitment & head coach model. We need to sort out this development team and either get them playing games or look at the Lowland League route and we need someone overseeing the whole thing. As it stands we have a football manager and a CEO with a glaring hole in the middle and no one shouldering overall responsibility for the football operation. That's failed so far and it's doomed to further failure unless whoever put this current shambles in place is willing to swallow their pride and make the change.


:agree:

[HerbDailly]

He talks a lot, and he says a lot of sensible things, but it's all a bit stream of consciousness. Nothing wrong with being a thinker, but constantly blurring out those thoughts? That doesn't seem sensible.

The other thing is that there's been a conversation about this for a while - is he some kind of Del boy gob*****, talking his way through life, or is he just a particularly vocal, but good, manager with lots of ideas and passion. It worries me a bit that the players might be having this conversation too, with an equal spread of opinions.

[chrisski33]

LJ full of ***** and slavers away. Only coming out with stuff about recruitment that us fans have known about for ages because he is lining up his excuses for when he is sacked. He picks the team, tactics and apparently had final say in some of the signings. Hes just full of ***** and should leave along with BK and Rons son.

[Keith_M]

His comments may be accurate but they are the sort of comments that makes manager lose the dressing room. This is the beginning of the end I fear.


Yeah, this is currently making me think of the end of the Lennon era, when he was putting the blame on everybody else and fielding some really weird lineups.

Or even worse, the Butcher era, when we 'only needed one win to avoid relegation'.

[Winston Ingram]

He’s not blameless but most of the blame is on the recruitment department.

I don’t think the board will sack him as it will shine a light on their recruitment and put them under more pressure.

[easty]

Agree

We all know once you lose the dressing room as a manager you are done

Shame as I just wanted him to do well but I think the path back from here is too hard for him now

Given the results, what he was saying pre “losing” the dressing room wasn’t working. Some people react well to an arm round the shoulder, some work better getting a bollocking.

The players are making individual errors. He can’t cut those out. If slating the players finally elicits a reaction, then he’ll have done the right thing.

If it doesn’t work, he’s no lost anything as these results have him on the way out anyway.

[mcfly]

Talks a great game - time for more action and less chat.

We shall see his teams reaction on Sunday.

If we lose then I think he will get under huge pressure