Their penalty

[Baader]

Not disputing the overall poor performance and the fact we were second best but that penalty decision was a shocker.

How can a handball be given after an offside? Absolute farce.

[Ozyhibby]

Not disputing the overall poor performance and the fact we were second best but that penalty decision was a shocker.

How can a handball be given after an offside? Absolute farce.

It wasn’t. The offside only occurs when the hearts player moves towards the ball which is after the handball. It’s the correct decision.


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[MelbourneHibees]

Inability to understand the laws of the game holds us back.

[Torto7062]

Inability to understand the laws of the game holds us back.


🤣🤣🤣

Now do you mean the fans or team 🤔

[Baader]

It wasn’t. The offside only occurs when the hearts player moves towards the ball which is after the handball. It’s the correct decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sibbick is offside when the shot comes in before the handball though.

[Dmas]

Sibbick is offside when the shot comes in before the handball though.

Not active until he goes for the ball though, if he was standing in front of Marshall be a diff outcome, my gripe with it tho is why the ref blew for a free kick in the first place linesman didn’t flag he’s surely not called it offside himself so what did he see and why did VAR over rule on field decision

[Alfred E Newman]

Not active until he goes for the ball though, if he was standing in front of Marshall be a diff outcome, my gripe with it tho is why the ref blew for a free kick in the first place linesman didn’t flag he’s surely not called it offside himself so what did he see and why did VAR over rule on field decision

He maybe blew for the soft foul on Newell in the lead up.

[Partyraiser]

He maybe blew for the soft foul on Newell in the lead up.

I thought the referee blew the whistle for a foul before the ball went in, meaning that anything after the whistle should have been irrelevant

[Helensburghhibs]

Newell should have hit the deck when he was pulled back, doesnt excuse the fact we once again cant defend and leave a spare man at the back post though. Although we left men spare wide all match

[Helensburghhibs]

Im sure the whistle went after the handball but before the goal

[MrRobot]

part that confuses me is that the ref have to foul on newell but then overturned thst, but it wasn’t a clear and obvious error was it? what defines a clear and obvious error :dunno:

[ChilliEater]

part that confuses me is that the ref have to foul on newell but then overturned thst, but it wasn’t a clear and obvious error was it? what defines a clear and obvious error :dunno:

Whether or not VARts benefit

[Dublin07]

Newell should have hit the deck when he was pulled back, doesnt excuse the fact we once again cant defend and leave a spare man at the back post though. Although we left men spare wide all match
Spot in mate we did it in both games over the last week and lost 7 goals.

[LaMotta]

It wasn’t. The offside only occurs when the hearts player moves towards the ball which is after the handball. It’s the correct decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sibbick is interfering with play by challenging Rocky for the ball so he is offside as soon as the shot is taken as per laws of the game. This all happens before the handball so should have been free kick Hibs.

[Hibee Mac]

Sibbick is interfering with play by challenging Rocky for the ball so he is offside as soon as the shot is taken as 0er laws of the game. This all happens before the handball so should have been free kick Hibs.Exactly right, yet another scandalous var decision but it won't even be discussed by the media at all

[CL0762]

It was the same against Celtic, they took a quick throw in and the ref stopped the game and gave them it back to check something.

If they’ve taken the throw that’s tough ****.

That the ref has given the free kick to Hibs, IMO, means that VAR can’t get involved.

Also, if Sibbick is deemed to be offside how in the hell can they move onto the handball. he’s directly behind Rocky, influencing Rocky’s decision making which means he’s interfering with play.

[LaMotta]

It was the same against Celtic, they took a quick throw in and the ref stopped the game and gave them it back to check something.

If they’ve taken the throw that’s tough ****.

That the ref has given the free kick to Hibs, IMO, means that VAR can’t get involved.

Also, if Sibbick is deemed to be offside how in the hell can they move onto the handball. he’s directly behind Rocky, influencing Rocky’s decision making which means he’s interfering with play.

Ref didnt blow for free kick until after ball was in net, so no problem with checking VAR incidents.

Your last paragraph is bang on though.

[MelbourneHibees]

part that confuses me is that the ref have to foul on newell but then overturned thst, but it wasn’t a clear and obvious error was it? what defines a clear and obvious error :dunno:

Clear and obvious isn't used for VAR it's a misconception that lots of people still believe.

[bigwheel]

Clear and obvious isn't used for VAR it's a misconception that lots of people still believe.

From the VAR handbook


“VAR can be used to review four types of decision: goals and the violations that precede them, red cards, penalties, and mistaken identity when awarding a card. In some cases, a decision made by the main referee can be overturned; however, it must be a “clear error” for this to happen.”

[MelbourneHibees]

From the VAR handbook


“VAR can be used to review four types of decision: goals and the violations that precede them, red cards, penalties, and mistaken identity when awarding a card. In some cases, a decision made by the main referee can be overturned; however, it must be a “clear error” for this to happen.”
Yep. So not clear and obvious.
The error wasn't obvious, but upon review was clear (subjective or course) and so it can be overturned.

[LaMotta]

Nick Walsh in the VAR hotseat has made a clear and obvious error by deeming the offside happened after the handball.

[bigwheel]

Yep. So not clear and obvious.
The error wasn't obvious, but upon review was clear (subjective or course) and so it can be overturned.

What’s the difference , in this context , between clear and obvious ?

[Tyler Durden]

Nick Walsh in the VAR hotseat has made a clear and obvious error by deeming the offside happened after the handball.

Sibbicks role is not really relevant, he didn’t impact Rocky blocking the shot

If Rocky blocks it with his chest and Sibbick scores, then he would have been given offside

[wookie70]

Sibbicks role is not really relevant, he didn’t impact Rocky blocking the shot

If Rocky blocks it with his chest and Sibbick scores, then he would have been given offside

Here are the two parts of the offside rule that could be argued Sibbick could be penalised. As the shot comes in he is actually making contact with Rocky. The word clearly is probably where the decision rests and why the ref gave the pen. There is nothing clear and obvious about it as the 6 minutes to decide would suggest.


challenging an opponent for the ball or

making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

[Callum_62]

Has the ref actually given the goal rather than the FK?

His action looks like awarding the goal but literally no one moves back towards the halfway line

Its all a bit odd - even worse if you were at the game

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[Tyler Durden]

Here are the two parts of the offside rule that could be argued Sibbick could be penalised. As the shot comes in he is actually making contact with Rocky. The word clearly is probably where the decision rests and why the ref gave the pen. There is nothing clear and obvious about it as the 6 minutes to decide would suggest.


challenging an opponent for the ball or

making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball


Sibbick is doing neither of those things. He is not in contact with Rocky when the shot comes in

[LaMotta]

Sibbick is doing neither of those things. He is not in contact with Rocky when the shot comes in

He is challenging Rocky, right up his arse. He doesnt have to be in direct contact. His mere presence influences Rocky's behaviour.

[wookie70]

Sibbick is doing neither of those things. He is not in contact with Rocky when the shot comes in He is definitely in contact with Rocky as the ball is struck. He is also making Rocky have to move his body because of teh threat he is posing. Not sure how that can be deemed inactive. It may be a soft one but I think there is a foul on Newell too the more I look
26363

[Tyler Durden]

He is definitely in contact with Rocky as the ball is struck. He is also making Rocky have to move his body because of teh threat he is posing. Not sure how that can be deemed inactive. It may be a soft one but I think there is a foul on Newell too the more I look
26363

Watch the video again

I agree re Newell. Typically all the usual BBC analysis fails to query what Clancy originally blew for. If for a foul on Newell - as it seemed - why has he overturned it? No need for VAR to intervene at all

[Cod Boy]

I only seen it live at the game but was it a penalty in the second half seem to hit sibbicks arm?

[CL0762]

Sibbick is doing neither of those things. He is not in contact with Rocky when the shot comes in

Compare it to the Abada goal that got disallowed for Celtic the other week, he is realistically nowhere near the Livi defender (I think it was them) yet because he’s coming back from an offside position, it influenced the way the defender approached the ball.

It’s the same scenario with Rocky, Rocky’s actions are influenced by the player behind him in an offside position. It’s beyond me how they can rule Sibbick as offside, yet penalise Rocky for what happened when his next action has been directly influenced by Sibbicks presence.

[Tyler Durden]

Compare it to the Abada goal that got disallowed for Celtic the other week, he is realistically nowhere near the Livi defender (I think it was them) yet because he’s coming back from an offside position, it influenced the way the defender approached the ball.

It’s the same scenario with Rocky, Rocky’s actions are influenced by the player behind him in an offside position. It’s beyond me how they can rule Sibbick as offside, yet penalise Rocky for what happened when his next action has been directly influenced by Sibbicks presence.

Maybe I’m in the minority here but Rocky is just trying to block the shot. IMO Sibbick doesn’t influence that at all, he’s just trying to get back on side

[wookie70]

Watch the video again

I agree re Newell. Typically all the usual BBC analysis fails to query what Clancy originally blew for. If for a foul on Newell - as it seemed - why has he overturned it? No need for VAR to intervene at all Why, I have watched it repeatedly. Rocky's position was directly impacted by teh offside player as the ball was struck. He was immediately offside at that point. Sibbick them moves away from Rocky but at that point the offence has already taken place imo. I'm no ref though and am just reading the rules and seeing what fits best. Clancy went for his whistle well before the ball was in the net and there was no flag(unbelievably given how obvious it was). It is a pity our manager never asked Clancy why he blew his whistle as it was a mystery at the game and still is after umpteen replays. There is absolutely no dispute when he blew it though and that is almost immediately after the ball hit Rocky. Here he is whistle in mouth and that is obviously after he saw whatever he saw as he has raised his hand to his mouth already. Given you thought he blew after the goal perhaps you need to watch the video again. I didn't need a TV to know when it was blown as it was very clear at the game.
26365

[Tyler Durden]

Why, I have watched it repeatedly. Rocky's position was directly impacted by teh offside player as the ball was struck. He was immediately offside at that point. Sibbick them moves away from Rocky but at that point the offence has already taken place imo. I'm no ref though and am just reading the rules and seeing what fits best. Clancy went for his whistle well before the ball was in the net and there was no flag(unbelievably given how obvious it was). It is a pity our manager never asked Clancy why he blew his whistle as it was a mystery at the game and still is after umpteen replays. There is absolutely no dispute when he blew it though and that is almost immediately after the ball hit Rocky. Here he is whistle in mouth and that is obviously after he saw whatever he saw as he has raised his hand to his mouth already. Given you thought he blew after the goal perhaps you need to watch the video again. I didn't need a TV to know when it was blown as it was very clear at the game.
26365

I never said anything about him blowing after the goal

I genuinely don’t know how you can see the laws and then come to your conclusion re the offside.

[wookie70]

I never said anything about him blowing after the goal

I genuinely don’t know how you can see the laws and then come to your conclusion re the offside.


Apologies, must have got mixed up with another poster regarding the timing of the whistle.

I feel the same way about your interpretation too though. The law is open to interpretation and we are clearly interpreting it differently. Unfortunately, the ref in the studio 50 miles away had the same thoughts as you and Clancy agreed with him and disagreed with himself. One thing for sure is there was nothing clear and obvious and the game was being refereed in Glasgow at that point. I was a supporter of VAR before it came in but would love to see the back of it now. Absolutely no surprise that the biggest beneficiaries of it have been Hearts and The Rangers, who would have thought. All I can remember in our favour was the goal at Pittodrie after the game was gone and that was a poor decision from the poor linesman in the first place. We have had a few that have been terrible decisions already and that will only continue.

[Tyler Durden]

Apologies, must have got mixed up with another poster regarding the timing of the whistle.

I feel the same way about your interpretation too though. The law is open to interpretation and we are clearly interpreting it differently. Unfortunately, the ref in the studio 50 miles away had the same thoughts as you and Clancy agreed with him and disagreed with himself. One thing for sure is there was nothing clear and obvious and the game was being refereed in Glasgow at that point. I was a supporter of VAR before it came in but would love to see the back of it now. Absolutely no surprise that the biggest beneficiaries of it have been Hearts and The Rangers, who would have thought. All I can remember in our favour was the goal at Pittodrie after the game was gone and that was a poor decision from the poor linesman in the first place. We have had a few that have been terrible decisions already and that will only continue.

👍🏻

[gbhibby]

VAR is a mess. It seems to depend on who is in the VAR hot seat. The decisions made by VAR are worse than some of the on field decisions. We seemed to have suffered more than other clubs. Watched the old firm game and there was a clear hand ball looked at and not given..There are far too many inconsistencies for something that was meant to improve the game.

[Chorley Hibee]

VAR is a mess. It seems to depend on who is in the VAR hot seat. The decisions made by VAR are worse than some of the on field decisions. We seemed to have suffered more than other clubs. Watched the old firm game and there was a clear hand ball looked at and not given..There are far too many inconsistencies for something that was meant to improve the game.

Just watched highlights of the Livingston v Motherwell game where the Motherwell keeper is well off his line when he saves a penalty.

No retake awarded by the VAR officials though, unlike how quick the officials were to punish Marshall for a similar infringement at Aberdeen.

It's becoming farcical and is really turning me off the sport I love

[gbhibby]

Just watched highlights of the Livingston v Motherwell game where the Motherwell keeper is well off his line when he saves a penalty.

No retake awarded by the VAR officials though, unlike how quick the officials were to punish Marshall for a similar infringement at Aberdeen.

It's becoming farcical and is really turning me off the sport I love
Same happened at the World Cup no retakes.

[SaulGoodman]

VAR is a mess. It seems to depend on who is in the VAR hot seat. The decisions made by VAR are worse than some of the on field decisions. We seemed to have suffered more than other clubs. Watched the old firm game and there was a clear hand ball looked at and not given..There are far too many inconsistencies for something that was meant to improve the game.

I said during the Celtic game that it’s amazing that the VAR check for the Celtic penalty manages to get through the offside check and the penalty check in about 30 seconds.

You can bet if it was for us it would take several minutes.

[allmodcons]

Just watched highlights of the Livingston v Motherwell game where the Motherwell keeper is well off his line when he saves a penalty.

No retake awarded by the VAR officials though, unlike how quick the officials were to punish Marshall for a similar infringement at Aberdeen.

It's becoming farcical and is really turning me off the sport I love

This 100%

[wookie70]

Ex ref has his say - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64150636

Please don't tell me they used a clip from behind the goals to see if the ball hit Rocky's arm. From the angle Dougal talks about the ball could have came off his chest and been six inches from the arm heading away from it. That is miles away from clear and obvious and teh foul on Newell was a wee bit more obvious. It is becoming farcical if that is what is being used for proof. Meanwhile The Ranger can have players handling goal bound efforts like a Keeper would and don't even get a pen against them. Same old Scottish football, only there for the benefit of The Establishment clubs

[brydekirk]

Looked like the ref blew the whistle before the hand ball.
VAR decided it was a hand ball.imo

[Allyg69]

Just watched highlights of the Livingston v Motherwell game where the Motherwell keeper is well off his line when he saves a penalty.

No retake awarded by the VAR officials though, unlike how quick the officials were to punish Marshall for a similar infringement at Aberdeen.

It's becoming farcical and is really turning me off the sport I love

Livi had to retake their first penalty. Keeper saved it, players scores the rebound but with his hand, keeper spotted to have been off his his line, retake awarded. Keeper saved the retake

[JimBHibees]

Got to be said thought Clancy was horrific as per. Hearts seemed to avoid some really obvious yellows Devlin and Rowles in particular. The decision by Collum in the old firm game was just corrupt as was ours at ibrox by Muir. Simply bottlers

[JimBHibees]

Livi had to retake their first penalty. Keeper saved it, players scores the rebound but with his hand, keeper spotted to have been off his his line, retake awarded. Keeper saved the retake

Yes correct decision not helped the sport scene commentator not explaining what was going on

[Chorley Hibee]

Livi had to retake their first penalty. Keeper saved it, players scores the rebound but with his hand, keeper spotted to have been off his his line, retake awarded. Keeper saved the retake

He was yards off his line for the retake that he saved though.

[Alfred E Newman]

[QUOTE=wookie70;7215996]Ex ref has his say - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64150636

Please don't tell me they used a clip from behind the goals to see if the ball hit Rocky's arm. From the angle Dougal talks about the ball could have came off his chest and been six inches from the arm heading away from it. That is miles away from clear and obvious and teh foul on Newell was a wee bit more obvious. It is becoming farcical if that is what is being used for proof. Meanwhile The Ranger can have players handling goal bound efforts like a Keeper would and don't even get a pen against them. Same old Scottish football, only there for the benefit of The Establishment clubs[/

They didn’t seem to be bothered about the foul on Newell in the lead up and only Clancy can explain what exactly he was giving a free kick to Hibs for when he blew his whistle prior to the ball hitting Rocky’s arm.

[Allyg69]

He was yards off his line for the retake that he saved though.

If you look closely he has one foot on the line when he saves the ball. In my opinion anyway

[Donegal Hibby]

Scottish clubs penalties.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/10007744/penalties-celtic-rangers-premiership-conceded-won-var-how-many/

[Chorley Hibee]

Scottish clubs penalties.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/10007744/penalties-celtic-rangers-premiership-conceded-won-var-how-many/

Absolutely stunned to see the Huns are the only side that hasn't had a penalty awarded against them. 😂

To think people still say it isn't cheating as well.

[I'm Spartacus]

Many will remember back in the day, a winger miles away offside and nowhere near the ball would have resulted in the flag going up straight away, nowadays it's all about phases of play.

If Newell goes down from the Halliday tug then the game is stopped. I think someone is miles offside when the initial ball comes over but they are not interfering.

[gbhibby]

Ex ref has his say - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64150636

Please don't tell me they used a clip from behind the goals to see if the ball hit Rocky's arm. From the angle Dougal talks about the ball could have came off his chest and been six inches from the arm heading away from it. That is miles away from clear and obvious and teh foul on Newell was a wee bit more obvious. It is becoming farcical if that is what is being used for proof. Meanwhile The Ranger can have players handling goal bound efforts like a Keeper would and don't even get a pen against them. Same old Scottish football, only there for the benefit of The Establishment clubs
Noticed he glossed over the foul on Newell, the same ex ref said the penalty Colak got against us was the correct decision 🤔🤔🤔

[Carheenlea]

Marching into the Wheatfield stand surrounded by braying simpletons, the referee was always going to find something.

[MelbourneHibees]

Just watched highlights of the Livingston v Motherwell game where the Motherwell keeper is well off his line when he saves a penalty.

No retake awarded by the VAR officials though, unlike how quick the officials were to punish Marshall for a similar infringement at Aberdeen.

It's becoming farcical and is really turning me off the sport I love

I just went to watch the highlights to see what happened. From the 2 pens I'm not sure if the keeper was off the line ffor either. The 1st maybe but they scored straight away anyway. The 2nd I'm sure he is on the line anyway.