Do we just keep moving along thinking everything will get better

[Tully]

When do us the fans let the owners know that what we're watching and where we're heading is the championship, lets be honest everyone is entitled to there opinion ,but can anyone see a turning point in the so called plan in place just now, players constantly signed with no improvement, someone must take responsibility and I'll bet it won't be the main culprits for the mess we are in

[MWHIBBIES]

Not really worried about relegation this season. We'll win enough points to be safe, probably by 10 or so.

Next season without Porteous, Nisbet, Myko etc? Yeah, probably in trouble.

[Pretty Boy]

The Hibs fanbase is largely a passive one. It took until we were already relegated last time before the 1st 'Butcher get to ****' chant was heard. A couple of hundred behind the stand after that game then everyone just sort of walked home. Even the organised protest a week or so later didn't attract the numbers it should have given what we had witnessed.

Last night was the same. The last 20 minutes was played in front of about 1500 Hibs fans, FT whistle went, a few boos then everyone just walked out mumbling away to themselves.

You only have to look at what the Celtic board and players were faced with a couple of seasons ago to see what the Hibs board and players could be dealing with. A bit name calling online is pretty tame really and given what they are serving up they should be thankful we are as passive and accepting as we are.

[Gatecrasher]

The Hibs fanbase is largely a passive one. It took until we were already relegated last time before the 1st 'Butcher get to ****' chant was heard. A couple of hundred behind the stand after that game then everyone just sort of walked home. Even the organised protest a week or so later didn't attract the numbers it should have given what we had witnessed.

Last night was the same. The last 20 minutes was played in front of about 1500 Hibs fans, FT whistle went, a few boos then everyone just walked out mumbling away to themselves.

You only have to look at what the Celtic board and players were faced with a couple of seasons ago to see what the Hibs board and players could be dealing with. A bit name calling online is pretty tame really and given what they are serving up they should be thankful we are as passive and accepting as we are.

:agree: - The Gordons need to be telt, but we won't.

[WhileTheChief..]

^^ Agree with this.

We're just bumbling along aimlessly, hoping things will improve.

You can sense the feeling on here. Nobody is really raging about things or demanding LJ be sacked.

It's weird. We're as bad as we were under Butcher, Calderwood or Maloney but just seem to be accepting it. From my own point of view, I find that I just don't care as much this season.

Someone posted that even the wins barely matter these days as you know the defeats will follow straight away. I feel the same.

I'm hoping we can do enough to stay up this season but if we go down, I doubt I'll care too much. A couple of years ago I was hoping we'd qualify for Europe.

[He's here!]

Not really worried about relegation this season. We'll win enough points to be safe, probably by 10 or so.

Next season without Porteous, Nisbet, Myko etc? Yeah, probably in trouble.

The games v Motherwell and United between the two derbies will be telling. Both have a game in hand on us. Assuming we lose at Tynecastle (almost certain I think we'd all acknowledge) then defeat in those two games would make a relegation battle a very real prospect.

[DIXIHIBS]

Apart from the first few minutes, last night was awful. Yes there is a big gulf in class between the teams but i doubt Celtic have had an easier 2 games this season....10 goals ffs. "Lesser" teams at least seem to be set up better, try harder and attempt to make things more difficult. 50 years watching hibs and there has been plenty poor teams but the apathy from this lot is staring us in the face and its spreading to the support. How many were actually there for the final 10 minutes? At what point do the owners think this isnt good enough or at what point do the owners think they dont really understand running a football club. This isnt a kneejerk reaction...things have been going downhill for a few years now. I dont think we will go down this season but it is a possibility. Lose against hertz on monday and i think the fans will really turn on the owners/ manager. We could be back to 7/8000 seasons next year if things dont improve. Rant over...merry f%#£÷n xmas.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

The Hibs fanbase is largely a passive one. It took until we were already relegated last time before the 1st 'Butcher get to ****' chant was heard. A couple of hundred behind the stand after that game then everyone just sort of walked home. Even the organised protest a week or so later didn't attract the numbers it should have given what we had witnessed.

Last night was the same. The last 20 minutes was played in front of about 1500 Hibs fans, FT whistle went, a few boos then everyone just walked out mumbling away to themselves.

You only have to look at what the Celtic board and players were faced with a couple of seasons ago to see what the Hibs board and players could be dealing with. A bit name calling online is pretty tame really and given what they are serving up they should be thankful we are as passive and accepting as we are.

Sadly, acceptance of mediocrity is the Hibs way, there should be a genuine rage at how badly the club is being mismanaged, but instead the support is divided, & apathetic, with incredibly still apologists who can’t accept how bad things are.

[flash]

Sadly, acceptance of mediocrity is the Hibs way, there should be a genuine rage at how badly the club is being mismanaged, but instead the support is divided, & apathetic, with incredibly still apologists who can’t accept how bad things are.

"Acceptance of mediocrity"

The clarion call of the halfwit.

[He's here!]

The Hibs fanbase is largely a passive one. It took until we were already relegated last time before the 1st 'Butcher get to ****' chant was heard. A couple of hundred behind the stand after that game then everyone just sort of walked home. Even the organised protest a week or so later didn't attract the numbers it should have given what we had witnessed.

Last night was the same. The last 20 minutes was played in front of about 1500 Hibs fans, FT whistle went, a few boos then everyone just walked out mumbling away to themselves.

You only have to look at what the Celtic board and players were faced with a couple of seasons ago to see what the Hibs board and players could be dealing with. A bit name calling online is pretty tame really and given what they are serving up they should be thankful we are as passive and accepting as we are.

We could point to the Hands Off Hibs campaign as the stand-out example of the fan base being roused into action, but I guess it also shows that it took the prospect of the club ceasing to exist to spark that kind of response.

[He's here!]

When do us the fans let the owners know that what we're watching and where we're heading is the championship, lets be honest everyone is entitled to there opinion ,but can anyone see a turning point in the so called plan in place just now, players constantly signed with no improvement, someone must take responsibility and I'll bet it won't be the main culprits for the mess we are in

In answer to your question, yes I think that by and large we do just keep moving along hoping things will get better. That's been the way of it for as long as I've supported Hibs (since the 1970s). We have shortish spells when we have a decent team on the pitch, win the odd trophy and the fans turn out in numbers, but these are regularly followed by lengthy spells of mediocrity during which a sizeable number of fans simply stay away before returning when the product on the pitch improves. Those who keep attending do so thanks to a mix of loyalty/force of habit but, as Pretty Boy points out, no matter how woeful the performances there's little more than a bit of booing and grumbling afterwards and no prospect of, say, a mass protest outside the main stand. I guess that may happen if/when we get turfed out the cup by Hearts, but because Ron Gordon is only occasionally at ER who would we be targeting our anger at?

The difficulty is, I think, that when you have a club like Hibs where the infrastructure appears sound, the potential fan base large and transfer budget strong in comparison to most, then it's hard to comprehend why we continually fail to exploit those assets and end up scrabbling around among teams with a lot less going for them. I'm guessing that's why at present there's little sense of collective/direct action from the fans ie there remains a hope that surely we can't keep getting things so wrong when we have so much going for us.

[.Sean.]

I am completely and utterly dejected with it now, apathy has set in to the point I’ve missed games out of choice - this for me personally was unthinkable even under Calderwood/ Butcher. There’s usually 2 or 3 season tickets up for grabs amongst my group - couldn’t give a few away last night.

We’re boring, passive, passionless, characterless, insipid, uninspiring, just generally pish from top to bottom. I’m genuinely dreading Monday as if Hearts score first and they’re on top of us it’ll be a humping as we don’t have the players to pick us up and battle.

[Pretty Boy]

I am completely and utterly dejected with it now, apathy has set in to the point I’ve missed games out of choice - this for me personally was unthinkable even under Calderwood/ Butcher. There’s usually 2 or 3 season tickets up for grabs amongst my group - couldn’t give a few away last night.

We’re boring, passive, passionless, characterless, insipid, uninspiring, just generally pish from top to bottom. I’m genuinely dreading Monday as if Hearts score first and they’re on top of us it’ll be a humping as we don’t have the players to pick us up and battle.

I said as much last night.

I've missed 3 home games already this season and frankly now if I get a better offer then the Hibs game doesn't even enter my considerations.

I'm not some sap who can't take a bad spell. Had a ST for 30+ years and was home and away throughout Williamson, Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc. The issue is twofold for me. First I really don't like this Hibs team or the club in general right now and secondly so many of those I used to go to games with, particularly away games, just won't go anymore. We used to always go by the mantra that the day out mattered more than the football but now that's gone all that is left is the depressing spectacle that is this Hibs side.

I'm seriously considering giving up my ST at the end of this season. I'm too old with too many other responsibilities to be allowing a football team to dictate my mood for an entire weekend. I largely fell out of love with football years ago, Hibs were the exception and now I am quite happy to actively do other things on a Saturday rather than watch us as well.

[B.H.F.C]

I said as much last night.

I've missed 3 home games already this season and frankly now if I get a better offer then the Hibs game doesn't even enter my considerations.

I'm not some sap who can't take a bad spell. Had a ST for 30+ years and was home and away throughout Williamson, Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc. The issue is twofold for me. First I really don't like this Hibs team or the club in general right now and secondly so many of those I used to go to games with, particularly away games, just won't go anymore. We used to always go by the mantra that the day out mattered more than the football but now that's gone all that is left is the depressing spectacle that is this Hibs side.

I'm seriously considering giving up my ST at the end of this season. I'm too old with too many other responsibilities to be allowing a football team to dictate my mood for an entire weekend. I largely fell out of love with football years ago, Hibs were the exception and now I am quite happy to actively do other things on a Saturday rather than watch us as well.

I couldn’t believe that ST sales held up to the level they did this season. Couple that with the backing away from home (our numbers are unquestionably up when you see us selling out various allocations, taking 1500 up to Aberdeen on a Friday night, similar down to Kilmarnock when we’re on a really poor run and so on). That’s what makes me laugh when I read things about people showing a lack of support because they write something negative online. The support has been outstanding this season and been given very little in return.

Guess the point I’m trying to make is that people want/wanted to get behind things this season. There are a lot of people who are going to be in a similar boat to you unless something dramatic happens.

[LunasBoots]

When do us the fans let the owners know that what we're watching and where we're heading is the championship, lets be honest everyone is entitled to there opinion ,but can anyone see a turning point in the so called plan in place just now, players constantly signed with no improvement, someone must take responsibility and I'll bet it won't be the main culprits for the mess we are in

The only way to tell them is to hit season ticket sales, we where told 'we've learnt lessons' by Gordon, doesn't look like it to me, we as a fan base are too passive and when protests do occur it's just not enough people to really ram home the message these days.

[JeMeSouviens]

The Hibs fanbase is largely a passive one. It took until we were already relegated last time before the 1st 'Butcher get to ****' chant was heard. A couple of hundred behind the stand after that game then everyone just sort of walked home. Even the organised protest a week or so later didn't attract the numbers it should have given what we had witnessed.

Last night was the same. The last 20 minutes was played in front of about 1500 Hibs fans, FT whistle went, a few boos then everyone just walked out mumbling away to themselves.

You only have to look at what the Celtic board and players were faced with a couple of seasons ago to see what the Hibs board and players could be dealing with. A bit name calling online is pretty tame really and given what they are serving up they should be thankful we are as passive and accepting as we are.

I'm not sure we're that different to other Scottish clubs? The other "big" non-OF clubs: Aberdeen, United and Hearts have all been similarly *****, suffered relegations (or been saved by dubious means in the Sheep's case). They all pretty much just moaned a bit but largely sucked it up. We've all collectively been beaten down to live with the odd scrap that falls between the baying wolves that are Celtc and Sevco.

We're ***** and Scottish football is *****.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's quite depressing that it's come to this but, backing against Hibs has been a decent money making scheme this season.

[PolmontHibby]

I said as much last night.

I've missed 3 home games already this season and frankly now if I get a better offer then the Hibs game doesn't even enter my considerations.

I'm not some sap who can't take a bad spell. Had a ST for 30+ years and was home and away throughout Williamson, Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc. The issue is twofold for me. First I really don't like this Hibs team or the club in general right now and secondly so many of those I used to go to games with, particularly away games, just won't go anymore. We used to always go by the mantra that the day out mattered more than the football but now that's gone all that is left is the depressing spectacle that is this Hibs side.

I'm seriously considering giving up my ST at the end of this season. I'm too old with too many other responsibilities to be allowing a football team to dictate my mood for an entire weekend. I largely fell out of love with football years ago, Hibs were the exception and now I am quite happy to actively do other things on a Saturday rather than watch us as well.

I could have written this myself as it echoes how long I have had a season ticket and also how I feel.
The only difference is that I have not missed 3 home games......I have only been to two or three which reflects the level of disconnect that has never been there before despite all the ups and downs.

[JeMeSouviens]

I am completely and utterly dejected with it now, apathy has set in to the point I’ve missed games out of choice - this for me personally was unthinkable even under Calderwood/ Butcher. There’s usually 2 or 3 season tickets up for grabs amongst my group - couldn’t give a few away last night.

We’re boring, passive, passionless, characterless, insipid, uninspiring, just generally pish from top to bottom. I’m genuinely dreading Monday as if Hearts score first and they’re on top of us it’ll be a humping as we don’t have the players to pick us up and battle.

Probably an age thing - Butcher did the same to me having just been too young for the early 70s but then lived through the mostly drab decades with occasional bright spells that followed. I enjoyed 2016 and the aftermath but I never thought it would end anywhere other than another slump.

[He's here!]

I said as much last night.

I've missed 3 home games already this season and frankly now if I get a better offer then the Hibs game doesn't even enter my considerations.

I'm not some sap who can't take a bad spell. Had a ST for 30+ years and was home and away throughout Williamson, Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc. The issue is twofold for me. First I really don't like this Hibs team or the club in general right now and secondly so many of those I used to go to games with, particularly away games, just won't go anymore. We used to always go by the mantra that the day out mattered more than the football but now that's gone all that is left is the depressing spectacle that is this Hibs side.

I'm seriously considering giving up my ST at the end of this season. I'm too old with too many other responsibilities to be allowing a football team to dictate my mood for an entire weekend. I largely fell out of love with football years ago, Hibs were the exception and now I am quite happy to actively do other things on a Saturday rather than watch us as well.

Couldn't have put it better. I got to that stage a while back and no longer watch any football other than Hibs matches, but even those are now few and far between. I finally realised after decades of investing too much time, money and (above all) emotion in the club that for all my banging on to anyone who would listen about how we were potentially one of the biggest clubs in the country we are never actually going to be anything other than a middle of the road club which enjoys occasional bursts of showing what we COULD be (most recently under Stubbs/Lennon) but will for the most part just plod along. There are, as you say, better ways to spend your time.

[Donegal Hibby]

When do us the fans let the owners know that what we're watching and where we're heading is the championship, lets be honest everyone is entitled to there opinion ,but can anyone see a turning point in the so called plan in place just now, players constantly signed with no improvement, someone must take responsibility and I'll bet it won't be the main culprits for the mess we are in
You think we are heading to the championship ? Really?

[loanheadhibby]

You think we are heading to the championship ? Really?

I think we have to be careful.
I'm not so sure we have many if any players prepared to battle if we get sucked in to a survival battle.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

You think we are heading to the championship ? Really?

The warning signs are certainly there.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I said as much last night.

I've missed 3 home games already this season and frankly now if I get a better offer then the Hibs game doesn't even enter my considerations.

I'm not some sap who can't take a bad spell. Had a ST for 30+ years and was home and away throughout Williamson, Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc. The issue is twofold for me. First I really don't like this Hibs team or the club in general right now and secondly so many of those I used to go to games with, particularly away games, just won't go anymore. We used to always go by the mantra that the day out mattered more than the football but now that's gone all that is left is the depressing spectacle that is this Hibs side.

I'm seriously considering giving up my ST at the end of this season. I'm too old with too many other responsibilities to be allowing a football team to dictate my mood for an entire weekend. I largely fell out of love with football years ago, Hibs were the exception and now I am quite happy to actively do other things on a Saturday rather than watch us as well.

Exactly where I am.

I came very close to not renewing this season but ended up doing so. I’ve not enjoyed going to watch Hibs for years now and to put it simply, there’s numerous things I could be doing that I now consider missing games for, whether that’s working overtime, playing golf, seeing friends or simply spending time with my dog and the mrs which I don’t get to do enough of due to work. Like you, I’ve also got a good few mates who don’t go anymore.

I’ve missed 2 games this season but I’d suspect I’ll be missing plenty more before the end of the season. I’ve never felt this apathetic about Hibs in my life and there’s not a chance it’s changing any time soon with the way we’re being run so I fully expect next season will be my first season not going to watch Hibs for 25 years since I was 7 years old. And the sad thing is I know i won’t miss it one bit, so I’m not sure when I’d end up going back.

[Broken Gnome]

If I had the kids on a Saturday I'd previously gone to any lengths to find childcare or even take them with me. If I was working I'd have found a replacement for the afternoon or wangled a few hours off.

I've consigned myself to not going too many times this season for it not to be symbolic of something pretty worrying. Still love them to bits and a decent team winning more often than not would please me no end, but it's not worth the mad dashes and infringing on other's time to fit in two hours of Hibs which in all likelihood will be a waste of time and effort.

Haven't seen us win a league game since February, and I'm totally out of the habit of everything but the disappointment of being let down. That's all I expect from Hibs at the moment. Totally get the apathy others are feeling - feels like it could get an awful lot worse before it gets better, or at least a lot more difficult to recover from.

[BH Hibs]

You think we are heading to the championship ? Really?

It’s worse than that we’re heading for bottom 6 mediocrity where apathy is breeding. Maybe a relegation fight would galvanise the support but right now more and more fans are saying they can’t be arsed going to games and that’s more dangerous in the long run.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think we have to be careful.
I'm not so sure we have many if any players prepared to battle if we get sucked in to a survival battle.


The warning signs are certainly there.
Our last game we absolutely battered a team that most other teams struggle with while playing some really good football on top of it ! We are 5 points of 3rd spot and 7 the play- off spot so we are closer to the top than bottom. I go on a lot of football clubs forums and can honestly say the negativity and defeatist mentality is probably the worst on here than any of the others I go on ! We will be nowhere near a relegation battle and loanheadhibby we have some very good players at our club with spirit ,passion and fight in them something I wish you had more of mate(no dig intended) .We played against a much bigger club who have a exceptionally good manager and has went out and spent 7.3 , 7.0 , 4.5 , 3.5 and 4.5 million on players, we can't compete with Celtic now , I think both of you are smart enough fans to realise this fact and that this isn't a match to pass judgement on our team or manager imo.

[DIXIHIBS]

I think both of you are smart enough fans to realise this fact and that this isn't a match to pass judgement on our team or manager imo.[/QUOTE]

I dont think people are basing anything on last night as bad as it was but over the last dozen or so games (realistically over the last couple of years). Last night just brought things into perspective. Of course celtic are better than us all over the park but we should at least compete on effort and commitment if not on quality. We didnt.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Our last game we absolutely battered a team that most other teams struggle with while playing some really good football on top of it ! We are 5 points of 3rd spot and 7 the play- off spot so we are closer to the top than bottom. I go on a lot of football clubs forums and can honestly say the negativity and defeatist mentality is probably the worst on here than any of the others I go on ! We will be nowhere near a relegation battle and loanheadhibby we have some very good players at our club with spirit ,passion and fight in them something I wish you had more of mate(no dig intended) .We played against a much bigger club who have a exceptionally good manager and has went out and spent 7.3 , 7.0 , 4.5 , 3.5 and 4.5 million on players, we can't compete with Celtic now , I think both of you are smart enough fans to realise this fact and that this isn't a match to pass judgement on our team or manager imo.

It's not based on one match, unless we are playing against less than 11 players we are very unlikely to win.

[Sir David Gray]

You think we are heading to the championship ? Really?

I'm still fairly confident that we won't go down but 9 years ago today we beat Kilmarnock at home 3-0 to go into the second half of the season in 7th place and on 24 points, which is one point and one place better off than we find ourselves right now. We were also 13 points above the play off spot whereas tonight we find ourselves just 8 points off the bottom.

Obviously we went on the sort of run in the second half of that season which was quite unimaginable and I don't really see it being as bad this year but any team that goes on a run of 8 defeats in 10 matches, which included 3 of those defeats to teams currently below us in the league, can't really say in December with any great certainty that there's no chance of being relegated.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'm still fairly confident that we won't go down but 9 years ago today we beat Kilmarnock at home 3-0 to go into the second half of the season in 7th place and on 24 points, which is one point and one place better off than we find ourselves right now. We were also 13 points above the play off spot whereas tonight we find ourselves just 8 points off the bottom.

Obviously we went on the sort of run in the second half of that season which was quite unimaginable and I don't really see it being as bad this year but any team that goes on a run of 8 defeats in 10 matches, which included 3 of those defeats to teams currently below us in the league, can't really say in December with any great certainty that there's no chance of being relegated.

That should really have alarm bells ringing.

[One Day Soon]

Our last game we absolutely battered a team that most other teams struggle with while playing some really good football on top of it ! We are 5 points of 3rd spot and 7 the play- off spot so we are closer to the top than bottom. I go on a lot of football clubs forums and can honestly say the negativity and defeatist mentality is probably the worst on here than any of the others I go on ! We will be nowhere near a relegation battle and loanheadhibby we have some very good players at our club with spirit ,passion and fight in them something I wish you had more of mate(no dig intended) .We played against a much bigger club who have a exceptionally good manager and has went out and spent 7.3 , 7.0 , 4.5 , 3.5 and 4.5 million on players, we can't compete with Celtic now , I think both of you are smart enough fans to realise this fact and that this isn't a match to pass judgement on our team or manager imo.


I felt worse when we beat Livingston 4-0 than when we lost 4-0 last night. Why? Because my immediate thought was 'Oh great, there's the excuse needed for the club to yet again not go out during the January window and get the players we have needed in midfield in particular for literally years.' Not that the excuse is needed, they've already serially demonstrated a willingness to completely disregard what is needed on the footballing side.

I now have no faith left in the manager, the squad, or the owners of our club. I say that as a season ticket holder of 36 unbroken years standing. So I've seen all of the lows.

Pretty Boy's post earlier in the thread really does nail it for me. Those currently in charge have somehow managed to perform a slow motion Hibernianectomy on our club. The manager talks Brent-like nonsense, most of the the players look like a mixture of wage collectors and half-finished proto footballers, those running the club exude all the knowledge of the game and passion for the club of bored supermarket checkout staff and the poor, maligned, long-suffering fans are simultaneously treated as idiots while being rinsed for whatever money they'll part with.

I don't know how to treat a serious condition if I develop one, but I certainly know that I've become ill. I also don't need to be a club manager or owner that knows how to fix things in order to be able to see and feel the bad condition my club is in.

We've lost nine of our last eleven games. In the league we have taken just 6 points from a possible 30 in our last ten games and over that period we are - on form - the very bottom of the league. All of this would be just about bearable if over the 19 league games we had played so far (that's more than half the season, never mind the cup games) we had seen some discernible signs of improvement. We haven't.

We look just as shapeless, pace-less, pedestrian, gutless and clueless as we did at the start of the season. The high tempo high-press game we were promised hasn't been delivered, by and large the players we have do not look like they have been improved individually, the players we have signed do not look like they have improved the first team, our defence now leaks goals and in terms of leadership on and off the park that essential element is just posted missing.

In short, we look very much like what I suspect we now are: an institution being managed as a balance sheet by people with little to no grounding in the nature of what we are trying to sell, rather than a football club rooted in the community and the fan base which realises that the most important hour and a half of our business week takes place on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

"Acceptance of mediocrity"

The clarion call of the halfwit.

Faceless name calling & online abuse of strangers - the true marker of intellect in your world.

[ManchesterGreen]

Of course we will sit back and accept it because the culture of failure is engrained in the club.

It took a relegation as pretty boy said earlier for the fans to grow a set and actually make our voices heard. Having said that , it did force the board to react and the appointment of Dempster was made.

There’s a culture of failure at the club I’m afraid and it won’t be eradicated until players who’ve been failing year after year , season and season are binned and new fresh hungry players are brought in.

Paul Hanlon summed this culture up for me during the pre match Covid semi final presser when asked he said that the game was being treated as “ just another game “

A SCOTTISH CUP SEMI AGAINST HEARTS IS JUST ANOTHER GAME.

Here lies the problem within the club I’m afraid. Basically if we lose then it’s ok.

With that attitude , we as a club will never move forward.

[coldingham hibs]

I felt worse when we beat Livingston 4-0 than when we lost 4-0 last night. Why? Because my immediate thought was 'Oh great, there's the excuse needed for the club to yet again not go out during the January window and get the players we have needed in midfield in particular for literally years.' Not that the excuse is needed, they've already serially demonstrated a willingness to completely disregard what is needed on the footballing side.

I now have no faith left in the manager, the squad, or the owners of our club. I say that as a season ticket holder of 36 unbroken years standing. So I've seen all of the lows.

Pretty Boy's post earlier in the thread really does nail it for me. Those currently in charge have somehow managed to perform a slow motion Hibernianectomy on our club. The manager talks Brent-like nonsense, most of the the players look like a mixture of wage collectors and half-finished proto footballers, those running the club exude all the knowledge of the game and passion for the club of bored supermarket checkout staff and the poor, maligned, long-suffering fans are simultaneously treated as idiots while being rinsed for whatever money they'll part with.

I don't know how to treat a serious condition if I develop one, but I certainly know that I've become ill. I also don't need to be a club manager or owner that knows how to fix things in order to be able to see and feel the bad condition my club is in.

We've lost nine of our last eleven games. In the league we have taken just 6 points from a possible 30 in our last ten games and over that period we are - on form - the very bottom of the league. All of this would be just about bearable if over the 19 league games we had played so far (that's more than half the season, never mind the cup games) we had seen some discernible signs of improvement. We haven't.

We look just as shapeless, pace-less, pedestrian, gutless and clueless as we did at the start of the season. The high tempo high-press game we were promised hasn't been delivered, by and large the players we have do not look like they have been improved individually, the players we have signed do not look like they have improved the first team, our defence now leaks goals and in terms of leadership on and off the park that essential element is just posted missing.

In short, we look very much like what I suspect we now are: an institution being managed as a balance sheet by people with little to no grounding in the nature of what we are trying to sell, rather than a football club rooted in the community and the fan base which realises that the most important hour and a half of our business week takes place on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm.


Excellent post.

[Donegal Hibby]

It's not based on one match, unless we are playing against less than 11 players we are very unlikely to win.
Maybe it isn't based on one match with yourself but there's others change there mind on here the way they change there socks (daily) which I don't understand .If you aren't happy with results and the manager that's fine I get that though the remark about we are unlikely to beat 11 men I don't agree with and if a team goes down to ten men that's there lack of discipline which was what happened to Holt of Livingston and imo that could have broke Nisbet's ankle even before the sending off we looked good and much the better team

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Maybe it isn't based on one match with yourself but there's others change there mind on here the way they change there socks (daily) which I don't understand .If you aren't happy with results and the manager that's fine I get that though the remark about we are unlikely to beat 11 men I don't agree with and if a team goes down to ten men that's there lack of discipline which was what happened to Holt of Livingston and imo that could have broke Nisbet's ankle even before the sending off we looked good and much the better team

I believe the stats that SDG posted a day or two ago appear to back up my point, hence why I said highly unlikely to win not won't win.

[Donegal Hibby]

I felt worse when we beat Livingston 4-0 than when we lost 4-0 last night. Why? Because my immediate thought was 'Oh great, there's the excuse needed for the club to yet again not go out during the January window and get the players we have needed in midfield in particular for literally years.' Not that the excuse is needed, they've already serially demonstrated a willingness to completely disregard what is needed on the footballing side.

I now have no faith left in the manager, the squad, or the owners of our club. I say that as a season ticket holder of 36 unbroken years standing. So I've seen all of the lows.

Pretty Boy's post earlier in the thread really does nail it for me. Those currently in charge have somehow managed to perform a slow motion Hibernianectomy on our club. The manager talks Brent-like nonsense, most of the the players look like a mixture of wage collectors and half-finished proto footballers, those running the club exude all the knowledge of the game and passion for the club of bored supermarket checkout staff and the poor, maligned, long-suffering fans are simultaneously treated as idiots while being rinsed for whatever money they'll part with.

I don't know how to treat a serious condition if I develop one, but I certainly know that I've become ill. I also don't need to be a club manager or owner that knows how to fix things in order to be able to see and feel the bad condition my club is in.

We've lost nine of our last eleven games. In the league we have taken just 6 points from a possible 30 in our last ten games and over that period we are - on form - the very bottom of the league. All of this would be just about bearable if over the 19 league games we had played so far (that's more than half the season, never mind the cup games) we had seen some discernible signs of improvement. We haven't.

We look just as shapeless, pace-less, pedestrian, gutless and clueless as we did at the start of the season. The high tempo high-press game we were promised hasn't been delivered, by and large the players we have do not look like they have been improved individually, the players we have signed do not look like they have improved the first team, our defence now leaks goals and in terms of leadership on and off the park that essential element is just posted missing.

In short, we look very much like what I suspect we now are: an institution being managed as a balance sheet by people with little to no grounding in the nature of what we are trying to sell, rather than a football club rooted in the community and the fan base which realises that the most important hour and a half of our business week takes place on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm.
Our form isn't good there's no denying that though I think in certain game's we have looked very good ( not often enough though) lately against Livingston I thought we were excellent not shape-less , pace -less , pedestrian, gutless and clue-less ! Johnson said the Celtic game was a bit like a fiat Punto trying to race a Ferrari which is exactly what it was .I see us like a car at the minute that's needing parts though everyone's wanting a new mechanic before the current ones had chance to either change some parts that's not working and to get a few new ones in as well . I'd like to see him get a window to see what he can do . Biggest thing that fills me with dread isn't Johnson going but some of the names that people have put forward to replace him McInnes , Martindale, Roy Keane . McInnes teams play some of the worst football I've seen and Martindale's team isn't far behind ( sit in deep and lump the ball up ) a one trick manager whos definitely no master tactician , as a Irish man I can tell you honestly Roy Keane would be one of the worst appointments we could make as well as being a ticking time bomb so I'm going to carry on supporting Johnson for now btw you have my respect for being a season ticket holder for that long 👍👏

[Paulie Walnuts]

Maybe it isn't based on one match with yourself but there's others change there mind on here the way they change there socks (daily) which I don't understand .If you aren't happy with results and the manager that's fine I get that though the remark about we are unlikely to beat 11 men I don't agree with and if a team goes down to ten men that's there lack of discipline which was what happened to Holt of Livingston and imo that could have broke Nisbet's ankle even before the sending off we looked good and much the better team

We pretty much never beat 11 men this season. It’s there for us all to see in statistics.

[Sir David Gray]

Maybe it isn't based on one match with yourself but there's others change there mind on here the way they change there socks (daily) which I don't understand .If you aren't happy with results and the manager that's fine I get that though the remark about we are unlikely to beat 11 men I don't agree with and if a team goes down to ten men that's there lack of discipline which was what happened to Holt of Livingston and imo that could have broke Nisbet's ankle even before the sending off we looked good and much the better team

I agree it isn't our fault that opponents are going down to 10 men against us, it's either poor discipline or poor refereeing, either way it's not our fault.

However we have now played 19 league games, 13 of which have been against teams who have finished with 11 men. Our record in those games is;

P - 13
W - 2
D - 1
L - 10
F - 12
A - 27
PTS - 7

Compare that to our games so far where our opponents have failed to finish with a full complement of players;

P - 6
W - 5
D - 1
L - 0
F - 12
A - 3
PTS - 16

It's not hard to realise why people are questioning our ability to beat 11 men. For me it's not the fact that it's our fault that we're playing against 10 men so often it's the fact that when that doesn't happen we struggle to break teams down. There's a definite pattern emerging with us and it's quite concerning to me.

[Potty78]

We pretty much never beat 11 men this season. It’s there for us all to see in statistics.
I get the we ain’t beat 11 men often but surely it’s not hibs fault teams get a man sent off. If it wasn’t for penalties hearts would be about 8 points worse off. That’s football no?

[Paulie Walnuts]

I get the we ain’t beat 11 men often but surely it’s not hibs fault teams get a man sent off. If it wasn’t for penalties hearts would be about 8 points worse off. That’s football no?

As SDG said, it’s not the beating 10 men that’s the issue, nobody is saying it’s Hibs fault when we play against 10 men and despite the fact some on here constantly say it as a way to attempt to dismiss the point, nobody is suggesting that beating 10 men doesn’t count. It’s the not beating 11 men. Our results against 10 are largely irrelevant to the issue we have with beating 11.

Our record against 10 is to be commended. It’s exceptionally good. You won’t get to play against 10 men that often though so our record against 11 is a massive concern. If we get beat the vast majority of times we play against 11 men then we’ll not do well at all overall and that’s pretty much how this season has panned out. Our games where we don’t get to play against 10 are absolutely killing us.

If I was an opposition manager I’d be demanding my players do everything not to get sent off against Hibs. We’ve only won twice when we’ve played 11 men and all the games we’ve won against 10 men we’ve scored the winner whilst playing against 10, it’s not even like we took the lead against 11 which just adds even more weight to the fact we have major issues beating 11 men.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I get the we ain’t beat 11 men often but surely it’s not hibs fault teams get a man sent off. If it wasn’t for penalties hearts would be about 8 points worse off. That’s football no?

Nobody has said that it's our fault, the stats speak for themselves though.

[Potty78]

As SDG said, it’s not the beating 10 men that’s the issue, nobody is saying it’s Hibs fault when we play against 10 men and despite the fact some on here constantly say it as a way to attempt to dismiss the point, nobody is suggesting that beating 10 men doesn’t count. It’s the not beating 11 men. Our results against 10 are largely irrelevant to the issue we have with beating 11.

Our record against 10 is to be commended. It’s exceptionally good. You won’t get to play against 10 men that often though so our record against 11 is a massive concern. If we get beat the vast majority of times we play against 11 men then we’ll not do well at all overall and that’s pretty much how this season has panned out. Our games where we don’t get to play against 10 are absolutely killing us.

If I was an opposition manager I’d be demanding my players do everything not to get sent off against Hibs.
Fair point mate, there has been games that we should have won against 11 mind. Jan will be interesting

[Tyler Durden]

I said as much last night.

I've missed 3 home games already this season and frankly now if I get a better offer then the Hibs game doesn't even enter my considerations.

I'm not some sap who can't take a bad spell. Had a ST for 30+ years and was home and away throughout Williamson, Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc. The issue is twofold for me. First I really don't like this Hibs team or the club in general right now and secondly so many of those I used to go to games with, particularly away games, just won't go anymore. We used to always go by the mantra that the day out mattered more than the football but now that's gone all that is left is the depressing spectacle that is this Hibs side.

I'm seriously considering giving up my ST at the end of this season. I'm too old with too many other responsibilities to be allowing a football team to dictate my mood for an entire weekend. I largely fell out of love with football years ago, Hibs were the exception and now I am quite happy to actively do other things on a Saturday rather than watch us as well.

What you’re describing here is just the aging process. You’re in your late 30s or early 40s and you have kids (I’m assuming).

My group are the same. Im certain we all watched much worse Hibs teams than this one. There will be plenty of groups of lads in their teens/20s who have picked up the mantle of “never miss a game”. Good on them

I think the apathy issue that is unique to this current era post COVID, is that we’ve had 3/4 years with no real “big wins”. The derby record has been poor, we’ve toiled to beat the OF and our great season finishing 3rd was workmanlike and we all watched from home. So it feels like a good few years with limited new meaningful memories

[Fuzzywuzzy]

It will be interesting to hear what came of the fans survey. Most of the fans comments will have likely been ignored though regarding the product on the pitch. Still, we'll get another few random sponsors, so that'll be nice

[Smartie]

I felt worse when we beat Livingston 4-0 than when we lost 4-0 last night. Why? Because my immediate thought was 'Oh great, there's the excuse needed for the club to yet again not go out during the January window and get the players we have needed in midfield in particular for literally years.' Not that the excuse is needed, they've already serially demonstrated a willingness to completely disregard what is needed on the footballing side.

I now have no faith left in the manager, the squad, or the owners of our club. I say that as a season ticket holder of 36 unbroken years standing. So I've seen all of the lows.

Pretty Boy's post earlier in the thread really does nail it for me. Those currently in charge have somehow managed to perform a slow motion Hibernianectomy on our club. The manager talks Brent-like nonsense, most of the the players look like a mixture of wage collectors and half-finished proto footballers, those running the club exude all the knowledge of the game and passion for the club of bored supermarket checkout staff and the poor, maligned, long-suffering fans are simultaneously treated as idiots while being rinsed for whatever money they'll part with.

I don't know how to treat a serious condition if I develop one, but I certainly know that I've become ill. I also don't need to be a club manager or owner that knows how to fix things in order to be able to see and feel the bad condition my club is in.

We've lost nine of our last eleven games. In the league we have taken just 6 points from a possible 30 in our last ten games and over that period we are - on form - the very bottom of the league. All of this would be just about bearable if over the 19 league games we had played so far (that's more than half the season, never mind the cup games) we had seen some discernible signs of improvement. We haven't.

We look just as shapeless, pace-less, pedestrian, gutless and clueless as we did at the start of the season. The high tempo high-press game we were promised hasn't been delivered, by and large the players we have do not look like they have been improved individually, the players we have signed do not look like they have improved the first team, our defence now leaks goals and in terms of leadership on and off the park that essential element is just posted missing.

In short, we look very much like what I suspect we now are: an institution being managed as a balance sheet by people with little to no grounding in the nature of what we are trying to sell, rather than a football club rooted in the community and the fan base which realises that the most important hour and a half of our business week takes place on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm.

I certainly relate to your final paragraph - I don't think I'm on the same page as the club's current incumbents at all, and I do find myself drifting away a bit in a spiritual sense.

My daughter's nearly 5 and everyone I know knows that Hibs are a massive part of my identity, and the question from everywhere is "when are you going to take her to her first Hibs game?"

The truth is, I don't know if I want to get her involved in it. It almost feels like an affliction rather than an enjoyable pastime and I don't think I want to pass that on when there are a million and one other things that she can do with her time that would be more enjoyable.



Having said all of that, I think I'm going to be the one that urges folk to keep the heid and keep the faith - for now anyway. The first 4 games back after the World Cup were always going to be a challenge and so far they've gone pretty much as anyone sensible might have expected. Arguably we were better than expected at Ibrox, we got the job done against Livi and last night was a horsing by a good side who will dole out the odd horsing.

I'm convinced that our first choice XI (or one with minimal injury problems) looks half decent. A realistic improvement in January could see it become quite good and all of our goals for the season are still within reach. It's not like we're 20 points off a good side in 4th and out all the cups - we have everything to play for still.

A point in the derby could be a decent result and then we need to start picking up 3 points against all the other clubs.

A couple of decent arrivals in January could make the world of difference although I don't think I trust the club to make them any more than anyone else appears to trust them.

I'd love to be wrong but I think we look like a club who trades in players for profit with the football on show actually being an afterthought rather than our raison d'être.

So whilst I share some of the doom and gloom thoughts of some, I think we need to hang on in there a wee bit longer.

A pish January window, getting knocked out the cup by Hearts, some more poor form in the league that sees us drop further behind the top 4 and I'll happily join in with the doom and gloomers.

[Donegal Hibby]

I believe the stats that SDG posted a day or two ago appear to back up my point, hence why I said highly unlikely to win not won't win.


We pretty much never beat 11 men this season. It’s there for us all to see in statistics.


I agree it isn't our fault that opponents are going down to 10 men against us, it's either poor discipline or poor refereeing, either way it's not our fault.

However we have now played 19 league games, 13 of which have been against teams who have finished with 11 men. Our record in those games is;

P - 13
W - 2
D - 1
L - 10
F - 12
A - 27
PTS - 7

Compare that to our games so far where our opponents have failed to finish with a full complement of players;

P - 6
W - 5
D - 1
L - 0
F - 12
A - 3
PTS - 16

It's not hard to realise why people are questioning our ability to beat 11 men. For me it's not the fact that it's our fault that we're playing against 10 men so often it's the fact that when that doesn't happen we struggle to break teams down. There's a definite pattern emerging with us and it's quite concerning to me.
Stats do show a pattern that's concerning all right and I see what the other posters are saying , funnily enough I was talking to a guy that does abit of coaching about our Livingston match and he maintained that playing against 10 can be harder than 11 at times , he also said even against 10 men we were very attack - minded with 5 or 6 of our players getting into opposition's box and 1 or 2 floating just outside it as well. I've decided I'm going to carry on backing LJ hoping January he can get a few players in to turn the situation around.

[IberianHibernian]

What you’re describing here is just the aging process. You’re in your late 30s or early 40s and you have kids (I’m assuming).

My group are the same. Im certain we all watched much worse Hibs teams than this one. There will be plenty of groups of lads in their teens/20s who have picked up the mantle of “never miss a game”. Good on them

I think the apathy issue that is unique to this current era post COVID, is that we’ve had 3/4 years with no real “big wins”. The derby record has been poor, we’ve toiled to beat the OF and our great season finishing 3rd was workmanlike and we all watched from home. So it feels like a good few years with limited new meaningful memoriesAll good points . Look how nostalgic fans get about Stubbs era and not just cup win . We often struggled to beat teams , all in a lower division , but also had big wins like 4 v 0 v Rangers , beating Hearts in SC , LC win v Dons with Malonga goal . Second half of 17 / 18 was fantastic with entertaining football , a motivating manager and subsequently big crowds . Obviously we`re not helped that our 2 most exciting or talented players ( Boyle and McGeady ) have missed so many games . Little consolation , but think fans of almost all other non OF teams in our league will be unhappy / bored too with lack of quality . Hearts fans may be a bit less unhappy but that`s because they were in lower division very recently and even then relative success has happened on back of massive donation from one individual which won`t happen for much longer and even then , they were outclassed in the new Intertoto and lost to Killie in LC .

[SHODAN]

We won't protest until we are relegated. Hibs' fans default setting is apathy. We don't get angry, we just don't bother going.

I get it tbh, there's more to life than football. Just don't get too annoyed when we're consistently outspent and outplayed by our immediate rivals. I sure don't any more.

[Scotty Leither]

Do the club take any cognisance of what’s said on here?

Do they care?

[Sir David Gray]

This is another pretty damning statistic - a look at the performance of each team during the 2022 calendar year.

Only Ross County and Motherwell have worse records than us out of the 11 sides who have been in the Premiership throughout 2022. We've also lost almost 50% of the league matches we've played this year and rather embarrassingly we're comfortably behind both Livingston and St Mirren.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64118889

[RIP]

Do the club take any cognisance of what’s said on here?

Do they care?

The supporters are meant to BE the Club. Not the owners and board who are but temporary custodians.

There's only been twice in my lifetime where Hibs supporters have stood up and been counted for the team they supposedly love.

1.Hands off Hibs
2.Petrie Out

Other than those brief interludes, nobody has had the desire to fight for a better Hibs.

I just wish we had a supporters organisation that would step forward and take action. But at Hibs of course, we only have a social club committee.

[Scotty Leither]

The supporters are meant to BE the Club. Not the owners and board who are but temporary custodians.

There's only been twice in my lifetime where Hibs supporters have stood up and been counted for the team they supposedly love.

1.Hands off Hibs
2.Petrie Out

Other than those brief interludes, nobody has had the desire to fight for a better Hibs.

I just wish we had a supporters organisation that would step forward and take action. But at Hibs of course, we only have a social club committee.

I was part of both of these initiatives (for want of a better word) you mentioned and they do eventually gain a bit of traction with the owners at the club, so protests can be effective.

Problem with the current ownership is their remoteness, both geographically and culturally; I think Gordon would look upon any request to meet with him with disdain if his podcasts are anything to go by.

[AL-Qaholik]

I am completely and utterly dejected with it now, apathy has set in to the point I’ve missed games out of choice - this for me personally was unthinkable even under Calderwood/ Butcher. There’s usually 2 or 3 season tickets up for grabs amongst my group - couldn’t give a few away last night.

We’re boring, passive, passionless, characterless, insipid, uninspiring, just generally pish from top to bottom. I’m genuinely dreading Monday as if Hearts score first and they’re on top of us it’ll be a humping as we don’t have the players to pick us up and battle.

I’m trying very hard to believe this isn’t exactly what Ron is going for.
Much easier to sell off the assets of a business with no customers left…

[Donegal Hibby]

This is another pretty damning statistic - a look at the performance of each team during the 2022 calendar year.

Only Ross County and Motherwell have worse records than us out of the 11 sides who have been in the Premiership throughout 2022. We've also lost almost 50% of the league matches we've played this year and rather embarrassingly we're comfortably behind both Livingston and St Mirren.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64118889
I like statistics and normally see the sense in them but I honestly don't believe we are going to finish behind Livingston,St Johnstone, St mirren and Dundee Utd . Time will tell though.

[GreenCastle]

I felt worse when we beat Livingston 4-0 than when we lost 4-0 last night. Why? Because my immediate thought was 'Oh great, there's the excuse needed for the club to yet again not go out during the January window and get the players we have needed in midfield in particular for literally years.' Not that the excuse is needed, they've already serially demonstrated a willingness to completely disregard what is needed on the footballing side.

I now have no faith left in the manager, the squad, or the owners of our club. I say that as a season ticket holder of 36 unbroken years standing. So I've seen all of the lows.

Pretty Boy's post earlier in the thread really does nail it for me. Those currently in charge have somehow managed to perform a slow motion Hibernianectomy on our club. The manager talks Brent-like nonsense, most of the the players look like a mixture of wage collectors and half-finished proto footballers, those running the club exude all the knowledge of the game and passion for the club of bored supermarket checkout staff and the poor, maligned, long-suffering fans are simultaneously treated as idiots while being rinsed for whatever money they'll part with.

I don't know how to treat a serious condition if I develop one, but I certainly know that I've become ill. I also don't need to be a club manager or owner that knows how to fix things in order to be able to see and feel the bad condition my club is in.

We've lost nine of our last eleven games. In the league we have taken just 6 points from a possible 30 in our last ten games and over that period we are - on form - the very bottom of the league. All of this would be just about bearable if over the 19 league games we had played so far (that's more than half the season, never mind the cup games) we had seen some discernible signs of improvement. We haven't.

We look just as shapeless, pace-less, pedestrian, gutless and clueless as we did at the start of the season. The high tempo high-press game we were promised hasn't been delivered, by and large the players we have do not look like they have been improved individually, the players we have signed do not look like they have improved the first team, our defence now leaks goals and in terms of leadership on and off the park that essential element is just posted missing.

In short, we look very much like what I suspect we now are: an institution being managed as a balance sheet by people with little to no grounding in the nature of what we are trying to sell, rather than a football club rooted in the community and the fan base which realises that the most important hour and a half of our business week takes place on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm.

Good post.

It wasn’t too long ago we were regularly filling the stadium - fully backing the team and felt like Hibs finally got their act together.

Fast forward just a few years and it’s depressing and the team isn’t enjoyable to watch and fans are questioning about whether to renew next season. Many have decided they won’t already unless something drastically improves and changes.

We have lost our identity that we took so long to to find after relegation. We haven’t been relegated this season (yet) but the same undroppable players makes frustrating watching. Oddly I preferred pre-season games more as was exciting watching new players try impress.

[He's here!]

I certainly relate to your final paragraph - I don't think I'm on the same page as the club's current incumbents at all, and I do find myself drifting away a bit in a spiritual sense.

My daughter's nearly 5 and everyone I know knows that Hibs are a massive part of my identity, and the question from everywhere is "when are you going to take her to her first Hibs game?"

The truth is, I don't know if I want to get her involved in it. It almost feels like an affliction rather than an enjoyable pastime and I don't think I want to pass that on when there are a million and one other things that she can do with her time that would be more enjoyable.



None of my kids go to Hibs games any more. I took all of them at one time or another and at first it just seemed the done thing to continue a family tradition going back to my grandad. When I think of it that way I guess there's a bit of poignancy that the link will be broken, but overall it doesn't really bother me and I'm quite relieved not to have cursed them with the affliction (as you describe it) for the rest of their lives. It actually makes me feel like a more responsible parent! As you say there are far more enjoyable and constructive things for kids to do than sit through mostly c**p football games and while there were obviously some decent days when the game was exciting and Hibs won, more often than not I could sense their boredom and I can see that two of them in particular now much prefer the other activities they take part in at weekends. I also find it a great deal more fulfilling watching them play sport/music than watching Hibs these days. I also realised that personally I wasn't enjoying the matchday experience as much because I had rarely watched Hibs sober before having kids :greengrin

[wookie70]

I like statistics and normally see the sense in them but I honestly don't believe we are going to finish behind Livingston,St Johnstone, St mirren and Dundee Utd . Time will tell though.

It wouldn't surprise me if we finish below them all and I wouldn't be too confident about Killie and Motherwell either. I think this years league is the worst I have seen since I started watching in the late 70s. Hard to know how good Celtc are because the rest are so bad. We probably have better players than the teams you mention but we don't have their work rate, fitness, or organisation and because we try to play some football we are far more vulnerable to losing cheap goals. This season has the feel of the relegation season for me. The players look devoid of confidence and we simply aren't playing as a team. I think what makes it even more infuriating is that this squad probably cost much more than the Cup Winning squad in terms of transfers and wages and would get beat by them 9 times out of 10. We had a plan back then and for whatever reason it was abandoned. Dempster had the right idea and just because she is no longer here it doesn't mean it should have been abandoned.

[B.H.F.C]

It wouldn't surprise me if we finish below them all and I wouldn't be too confident about Killie and Motherwell either. I think this years league is the worst I have seen since I started watching in the late 70s. Hard to know how good Celtc are because the rest are so bad. We probably have better players than the teams you mention but we don't have their work rate, fitness, or organisation and because we try to play some football we are far more vulnerable to losing cheap goals. This season has the feel of the relegation season for me. The players look devoid of confidence and we simply aren't playing as a team. I think what makes it even more infuriating is that this squad probably cost much more than the Cup Winning squad in terms of transfers and wages and would get beat by them 9 times out of 10. We had a plan back then and for whatever reason it was abandoned. Dempster had the right idea and just because she is no longer here it doesn't mean it should have been abandoned.

I think people are mad to dismiss the possibility of finishing behind anyone.

Go back to this time last year and all we needed was January. The last year or so we’ve always been waiting on something. A transfer window. A new manager to get his ideas across. Injured players to come back. Someone to find form. I think there is a lack of realisation from some people of just how bad we’ve been throughout 2022. We’re now at the end of the year and arguably in a worse position than we were at the start.

[SMAXXA]

We won't protest until we are relegated. Hibs' fans default setting is apathy. We don't get angry, we just don't bother going.

I get it tbh, there's more to life than football. Just don't get too annoyed when we're consistently outspent and outplayed by our immediate rivals. I sure don't any more.

Just so I am clear what are we supposed to be protesting? The fact we have made bad appointments of managers and players, fact we are pretty much bang in the middle of a tight league which has more than half a season to run? Genuinely no idea why anyone would suggest any protest at this stage but hopefully you will be able to clarify if I’m missing the obvious?

[Donegal Hibby]

It wouldn't surprise me if we finish below them all and I wouldn't be too confident about Killie and Motherwell either. I think this years league is the worst I have seen since I started watching in the late 70s. Hard to know how good Celtc are because the rest are so bad. We probably have better players than the teams you mention but we don't have their work rate, fitness, or organisation and because we try to play some football we are far more vulnerable to losing cheap goals. This season has the feel of the relegation season for me. The players look devoid of confidence and we simply aren't playing as a team. I think what makes it even more infuriating is that this squad probably cost much more than the Cup Winning squad in terms of transfers and wages and would get beat by them 9 times out of 10. We had a plan back then and for whatever reason it was abandoned. Dempster had the right idea and just because she is no longer here it doesn't mean it should have been abandoned.
I get why fans feel like this with the run we have been on though I don't think we will be anywhere near relegation and predict a 4th or 5th place finish , I started watching Hibs in the early 80's and remember not winning a derby for over 20 games and a 16 game run without a win as well as the takeover and going into receivership ( hardest time in our history and mine too). Think most teams can beat one another and then you have sevco who are slightly better than the rest but miles behind Celtic. This celtic team is as I've said before the .best old firm team I've ever watched much better than Martin O'Neil's side imo . I've never actually thought the Scottish league in my years of watching it one was worse than the other maybe because I love Scottish football to much ( apart from Hibs are doing badly of course). I do have my doubts about our recruitment and questions should be answered on this which LJ has mentioned also the fact we are seemingly trying to shift JDH's out and I hope Henderson as well shows we haven't got the right players in to suit LJ style of football which Ange postecoglou has said too . We will lose cheap goals at times as we are very attack -minded. Livingston game proved this with 5 or 6 players getting into opposition's box when we were attacking them. I seen us get hammered and play badly though I've also seen signs of good attacking football and I've decided to give our manager more time so he can at least have a chance to clear out what he doesn't want and get in what he does .

[WhileTheChief..]

Faceless name calling & online abuse of strangers - the true marker of intellect in your world.

He rarely offers his thoughts on threads anymore, instead he just insults those he disagrees with.

[Donegal Hibby]

He rarely offers his thoughts on threads anymore, instead he just insults those he disagrees with.
Does he belittle people and poke fun out of them when they don't know something as well?

[GreenCastle]

I think people are mad to dismiss the possibility of finishing behind anyone.

Go back to this time last year and all we needed was January. The last year or so we’ve always been waiting on something. A transfer window. A new manager to get his ideas across. Injured players to come back. Someone to find form. I think there is a lack of realisation from some people of just how bad we’ve been throughout 2022. We’re now at the end of the year and arguably in a worse position than we were at the start.

Good post and agree about sense of waiting constantly with Hibs.

Shows the mess we are in with fans desperate for January transfer window to open then realise clubs rarely sign anyone half decent in January.

[hibsbollah]

Just so I am clear what are we supposed to be protesting? The fact we have made bad appointments of managers and players, fact we are pretty much bang in the middle of a tight league which has more than half a season to run? Genuinely no idea why anyone would suggest any protest at this stage but hopefully you will be able to clarify if I’m missing the obvious?

Agree with that. What specifically are we protesting about and is now the right time? We’re in 8th place but also a mere 5th points off 3rd place and that cash rich European place with a chance to narrow it to 2 points in a couple of days. We’ve been in worse positions going into derbies before and won them. I just wish players management and fans could go into this one with our collective war face on and kick the ****ing ***** out of them :aok:

[WhileTheChief..]

Does he belittle people and poke fun out of them when they don't know something as well?

I don't know, ask him!

[B.H.F.C]

Agree with that. What specifically are we protesting about and is now the right time? We’re in 8th place but also a mere 5th points off 3rd place and that cash rich European place with a chance to narrow it to 2 points in a couple of days. We’ve been in worse positions going into derbies before and won them. I just wish players management and fans could go into this one with our collective war face on and kick the ****ing ***** out of them :aok:

This reminds me of last season. We were never miles away. First it was win our games in hand. Then it was beat such and such to get above them. Then it went right down to the last game before the split at Tynecastle where we had to win to get top six after we had to beat Dundee Utd the week before to catch them. None of it happened and the defeats have just continued to mount up. It sounds really negative but it’s really difficult to see things going any differently in the coming weeks because we simply aren’t very good at winning games.

The league is horrendous and it wouldn’t take much of a run second half of the season to have yourself in the mix, I’m just no sure we are actually capable of it.

We know the crowd will turn up at Tynecastle and get right behind them (as they have on the road all season for little reward). It’s firmly on the players to give us something now.

[Paulie Walnuts]

This reminds me of last season. We were never miles away. First it was win our games in hand. Then it was beat such and such to get above them. Then it went right down to the last game before the split at Tynecastle where we had to win to get top six after we had to beat Dundee Utd the week before to catch them. None of it happened and the defeats have just continued to mount up. It sounds really negative but it’s really difficult to see things going any differently in the coming weeks because we simply aren’t very good at winning games.

The league is horrendous and it wouldn’t take much of a run second half of the season to have yourself in the mix, I’m just no sure we are actually capable of it.

:agree:

Last season there was always something just around the corner that was supposed to fix it. We’re due someone a scudding, we’re due injured players back, the other teams aren’t very good, we’re only a few points behind etc.

It’s the exact same this season. We’ve seen this story before and we know how it’s likely to unfold.

Yes, we might be 5 points off 3rd right now but there’s absolutely no chance that’s where we’re finishing imo.

[SMAXXA]

This reminds me of last season. We were never miles away. First it was win our games in hand. Then it was beat such and such to get above them. Then it went right down to the last game before the split at Tynecastle where we had to win to get top six after we had to beat Dundee Utd the week before to catch them. None of it happened and the defeats have just continued to mount up. It sounds really negative but it’s really difficult to see things going any differently in the coming weeks because we simply aren’t very good at winning games.

The league is horrendous and it wouldn’t take much of a run second half of the season to have yourself in the mix, I’m just no sure we are actually capable of it.

We know the crowd will turn up at Tynecastle and get right behind them (as they have on the road all season for little reward). It’s firmly on the players to give us something now.

I know it was hard last season and you’re right what you say but I can’t help think last season is irrelevant and has no baring on what this season will hold. I may be in the minority aswell but I don’t think we are anywhere as bad as people make us out to be. Last point and I’ve read it a few times, how is the league horrendous I’d argue it’s got the makings of the most competitive league for a long time maybe you need to think about teams being more competitive hence why it’s so tight and no one has run away with it even Hearts who have had a settled squad and not had the changes Us, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St M etc have had this season. I don’t get it, league was ***** when we got third seemingly, ***** last season and folk saying same this year, is it any wonder folk down our game when people here can’t see how competitive it is.

[hibsbollah]

I know it was hard last season and you’re right what you say but I can’t help think last season is irrelevant and has no baring on what this season will hold. I may be in the minority aswell but I don’t think we are anywhere as bad as people make us out to be. Last point and I’ve read it a few times, how is the league horrendous I’d argue it’s got the makings of the most competitive league for a long time maybe you need to think about teams being more competitive hence why it’s so tight and no one even Hearts who have had a settled squad and not had the changes Us, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St M etc have had this season. I don’t get it, league was ***** when we got third seemingly, ***** last season and folk saying same this year, is it any wonder folk down our game when people here can’t see how competitive it is.

I think he means third place is there for the taking but he doesn’t think we have what it takes to do it. Which is fair enough.

[loanheadhibby]

Our last game we absolutely battered a team that most other teams struggle with while playing some really good football on top of it ! We are 5 points of 3rd spot and 7 the play- off spot so we are closer to the top than bottom. I go on a lot of football clubs forums and can honestly say the negativity and defeatist mentality is probably the worst on here than any of the others I go on ! We will be nowhere near a relegation battle and loanheadhibby we have some very good players at our club with spirit ,passion and fight in them something I wish you had more of mate(no dig intended) .We played against a much bigger club who have a exceptionally good manager and has went out and spent 7.3 , 7.0 , 4.5 , 3.5 and 4.5 million on players, we can't compete with Celtic now , I think both of you are smart enough fans to realise this fact and that this isn't a match to pass judgement on our team or manager imo.
You conveniently forget to mention the Livvi red card.
I think most fans would admit it would have been much tougher against 11.
Who are the players you talk about who have the spirit and passion to dig us out of trouble.

[SMAXXA]

I think he means third place is there for the taking but he doesn’t think we have what it takes to do it. Which is fair enough.

Yeah that’s fair and I agree as it stands we don’t post the Jan window we can only hope that changes

[hibsbollah]

:agree:

Last season there was always something just around the corner that was supposed to fix it. We’re due someone a scudding, we’re due injured players back, the other teams aren’t very good, we’re only a few points behind etc.

It’s the exact same this season. We’ve seen this story before and we know how it’s likely to unfold.

Yes, we might be 5 points off 3rd right now but there’s absolutely no chance that’s where we’re finishing imo.

‘Absolutely no chance’. You’ve said that, but I can’t believe you actually mean it. Like zero chance as a percentage?

[SMAXXA]

You conveniently forget to mention the Livvi red card.
I think most fans would admit it would have been much tougher against 11.
Who are the players you talk about who have the spirit and passion to dig us out of trouble.

11v11 there was only 1 team winning that game imo

[B.H.F.C]

I know it was hard last season and you’re right what you say but I can’t help think last season is irrelevant and has no baring on what this season will hold. I may be in the minority aswell but I don’t think we are anywhere as bad as people make us out to be. Last point and I’ve read it a few times, how is the league horrendous I’d argue it’s got the makings of the most competitive league for a long time maybe you need to think about teams being more competitive hence why it’s so tight and no one has run away with it even Hearts who have had a settled squad and not had the changes Us, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St M etc have had this season. I don’t get it, league was ***** when we got third seemingly, ***** last season and folk saying same this year, is it any wonder folk down our game when people here can’t see how competitive it is.

It’s absolutely competitive, no question about that. But quality wise, it’s not good. Look at the Dundee Utd team that got 4th and the Motherwell team that got 5th. They both won something like 3 or 4 games out of their last 20. And they have both regressed this season.

I’ve been at every Hibs game, except one, in 2022 and the quality of our team is as low as I can remember in years. I think that is the case across the league.

[hibsbollah]

11v11 there was only 1 team winning that game imo

Are you judging that on the first 14 minutes play before the red card? Or the fact Livvy are much better than us? Or the fact that we battered them afterwards scoring 4 goals in the process?

It’s baffling so many people seem to think as soon as a team gets reduced to ten men, withdrawing an attacking player and tightening up at the back, the result is a forgone conclusion. It isn’t.

[He's here!]

I know it was hard last season and you’re right what you say but I can’t help think last season is irrelevant and has no baring on what this season will hold. I may be in the minority aswell but I don’t think we are anywhere as bad as people make us out to be. Last point and I’ve read it a few times, how is the league horrendous I’d argue it’s got the makings of the most competitive league for a long time maybe you need to think about teams being more competitive hence why it’s so tight and no one has run away with it even Hearts who have had a settled squad and not had the changes Us, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St M etc have had this season. I don’t get it, league was ***** when we got third seemingly, ***** last season and folk saying same this year, is it any wonder folk down our game when people here can’t see how competitive it is.

Firstly, a league which only two teams can win is not competitive. I get that you're referring to the guddle of teams from third to bottom who are separated by not very many points, but just because they're tightly bunched and could therefore be described as 'competitive' doesn't mean it's a strong or enjoyable league. The fact we can go on such awful runs of form, losing significantly more games than we win, yet still not be mathematically out of the running for a European place is a sorry indictment of the league's quality, not an endorsement of how wonderfully competitive it is.

[Sir David Gray]

This reminds me of last season. We were never miles away. First it was win our games in hand. Then it was beat such and such to get above them. Then it went right down to the last game before the split at Tynecastle where we had to win to get top six after we had to beat Dundee Utd the week before to catch them. None of it happened and the defeats have just continued to mount up. It sounds really negative but it’s really difficult to see things going any differently in the coming weeks because we simply aren’t very good at winning games.

The league is horrendous and it wouldn’t take much of a run second half of the season to have yourself in the mix, I’m just no sure we are actually capable of it.

We know the crowd will turn up at Tynecastle and get right behind them (as they have on the road all season for little reward). It’s firmly on the players to give us something now.

It also reminds me a bit of the 13/14 season, if memory serves me correctly we only needed to beat Kilmarnock at home on the last day to stay up and we couldn't even manage that. In fact with the way the league panned out any win from our last 9 games would have been enough but again it didn't happen.

As I said yesterday I don't think we'll be relegated this year but as things stand I personally think we're much more likely to be in the bottom six than the top six.

[Broken Gnome]

‘Absolutely no chance’. You’ve said that, but I can’t believe you actually mean it. Like zero chance as a percentage?

You're in Jim Carrey/Dumb and Dumber 'so you're telling me there's a chance' territory there.

[hibsbollah]

Just as an addition

https://www.sportinglife.com/amp/football/news/man-city-dispel-10-man-myth/113074

Looking at 275 games where a red occurred, the average WDL% for teams reduced to ten men was W21-D20-L59. Or to put it another way, teams reduced to ten get something out of the game more than 40% of the time.

[hibsbollah]

You're in Jim Carrey/Dumb and Dumber 'so you're telling me there's a chance' territory there.

If I see hyperbole, I’ll tell you about it :greengrin

[GreenCastle]

This reminds me of last season. We were never miles away. First it was win our games in hand. Then it was beat such and such to get above them. Then it went right down to the last game before the split at Tynecastle where we had to win to get top six after we had to beat Dundee Utd the week before to catch them. None of it happened and the defeats have just continued to mount up. It sounds really negative but it’s really difficult to see things going any differently in the coming weeks because we simply aren’t very good at winning games.

The league is horrendous and it wouldn’t take much of a run second half of the season to have yourself in the mix, I’m just no sure we are actually capable of it.

We know the crowd will turn up at Tynecastle and get right behind them (as they have on the road all season for little reward). It’s firmly on the players to give us something now.

Agreed - just looked at the fixtures before the split and already feels like every game is really important or we will get dragged into the relegation mix very quickly.

If we want 3rd or 4th we can’t lose this derby - a loss would be 8 points behind 3rd - possibly 11 points as Hearts have a game in hand.

Aberdeen play Ross County at home too - they are on an awful run and a must win for them also.

[SMAXXA]

Firstly, a league which only two teams can win is not competitive. I get that you're referring to the guddle of teams from third to bottom who are separated by not very many points, but just because they're tightly bunched and could therefore be described as 'competitive' doesn't mean it's a strong or enjoyable league. The fact we can go on such awful runs of form, losing significantly more games than we win, yet still not be mathematically out of the running for a European place is a sorry indictment of the league's quality, not an endorsement of how wonderfully competitive it is.

Since the restart there has been 63 goals in 18 games, in 12 of these games both teams have scored in the game which to me means I’d rather talk up the game than down it for being a lack of quality. You can go on a run of bad games and still not be out it as everyone is beating each other which for me is a good thing not to be ridiculed.

[SMAXXA]

Are you judging that on the first 14 minutes play before the red card? Or the fact Livvy are much better than us? Or the fact that we battered them afterwards scoring 4 goals in the process?

It’s baffling so many people seem to think as soon as a team gets reduced to ten men, withdrawing an attacking player and tightening up at the back, the result is a forgone conclusion. It isn’t.

mad your stats state below playing against 10 men isn’t a given and can actually be harder at times when teams sit in so I guess from what I saw from Hibs against the 11 and the 10 we were very much on top and looked at it from the off which is why I think we would have won the game regardless But guess no one will know

[B.H.F.C]

It also reminds me a bit of the 13/14 season, if memory serves me correctly we only needed to beat Kilmarnock at home on the last day to stay up and we couldn't even manage that. In fact with the way the league panned out any win from our last 9 games would have been enough but again it didn't happen.

As I said yesterday I don't think we'll be relegated this year but as things stand I personally think we're much more likely to be in the bottom six than the top six.

We went up to Ross County midweek before that Kilmarnock with the same scenario. I’ve got a feeling a point would have done us with who had to play who. Battered them, lost 1-0 to a penalty and the players looked absolutely done at full time, always remember the sinking feeling.

We’re obviously not in such a dire situation at the moment but I think there are similarities. The lack of wins being one but also a lot of players in the squad who probably know they’re not going to be here long term.

[He's here!]

Since the restart there has been 63 goals in 18 games, in 12 of these games both teams have scored in the game which to me means I’d rather talk up the game than down it for being a lack of quality. You can go on a run of bad games and still not be out it as everyone is beating each other which for me is a good thing not to be ridiculed.

I'm not ridiculing it, just pointing out that watching your team lose most weeks yet still be 'competitive' doesn't equate to a healthy state of affairs - and certainly doesn't provide value for money to those who soldier through such awful runs of form.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don't know, ask him!
Nah thought you knew him , there is a saying that people in glass house's shouldn't throw stone's though!!

[basehibby]

I agree it isn't our fault that opponents are going down to 10 men against us, it's either poor discipline or poor refereeing, either way it's not our fault.

However we have now played 19 league games, 13 of which have been against teams who have finished with 11 men. Our record in those games is;

P - 13
W - 2
D - 1
L - 10
F - 12
A - 27
PTS - 7

Compare that to our games so far where our opponents have failed to finish with a full complement of players;

P - 6
W - 5
D - 1
L - 0
F - 12
A - 3
PTS - 16

It's not hard to realise why people are questioning our ability to beat 11 men. For me it's not the fact that it's our fault that we're playing against 10 men so often it's the fact that when that doesn't happen we struggle to break teams down. There's a definite pattern emerging with us and it's quite concerning to me.

Totally disagree with your initial premise - when players get sent off, 9 times out of 10 it absolutely IS the fault of the team they are playing against for putting them under pressure and forcing the error.
Of course we have been on a pish run and there is plenty room for improvement - no need to ignore reality though, just because it represents a positive that does not align with your gloomy outlook.

[hibsbollah]

mad your stats state below playing against 10 men isn’t a given and can actually be harder at times when teams sit in so I guess from what I saw from Hibs against the 11 and the 10 we were very much on top and looked at it from the off which is why I think we would have won the game regardless But guess no one will know

Sorry, I misunderstood you, I assumed you meant the opposition was the ‘only team’ that were going to win 11 vs 11, not us :greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Totally disagree with your initial premise - when players get sent off, 9 times out of 10 it absolutely IS the fault of the team they are playing against for putting them under pressure and forcing the error.
Of course we have been on a pish run and there is plenty room for improvement - no need to ignore reality though, just because it represents a positive that does not align with your gloomy outlook.

I really don't think that's what SDG meant but, I'm sure he can speak for himself.

[Sir David Gray]

Totally disagree with your initial premise - when players get sent off, 9 times out of 10 it absolutely IS the fault of the team they are playing against for putting them under pressure and forcing the error.
Of course we have been on a pish run and there is plenty room for improvement - no need to ignore reality though, just because it represents a positive that does not align with your gloomy outlook.

Sorry I thought it was obvious that what I was referring to by saying it's not our fault that we've played against 10 men so often was in response to others who have questioned the merit of that particular statistic by saying well it isn't our fault that teams keep losing their discipline and getting red cards against us.

No-one (until now perhaps) has suggested that it's Hibs' fault that this has happened so often this season.

When I and others use this particular statistic we are meaning that it's not something we should be held accountable for in terms of other sides' poor discipline. It's our poor record when we don't play against 10 men which I and others are highlighting when we mention this subject rather than anything to do with whose fault it is when our opponents go down to 10 men.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Sorry I thought it was obvious that what I was referring to by saying it's not our fault that we've played against 10 men so often was in response to others who have questioned the merit of that particular statistic by saying well it isn't our fault that teams keep losing their discipline and getting red cards against us.

No-one (until now perhaps) has suggested that it's Hibs' fault that this has happened so often this season.

When I and others use this particular statistic we are meaning that it's not something we should be held accountable for in terms of other sides' poor discipline. It's our poor record when we don't play against 10 men which I and others are highlighting when we mention this subject rather than anything to do with whose fault it is when our opponents go down to 10 men.

Indeed. 🖒

[Jim44]

In response to the original post, I think we will plod on, in hope that we will improve. Unfortunately, IMHO, we won’t, without a massive clear out of management, hopefully including the owner, and surplus to requirement players. We’ll pick up a few points to keep us clear of relegation, but the present set-up will keep us dyed in the wool bottom six with no prospects of improvement. Totally depressing but, no doubt, a h/c will come along to shake me out of my misery.:greengrin

[SMAXXA]

Sorry, I misunderstood you, I assumed you meant the opposition was the ‘only team’ that were going to win 11 vs 11, not us :greengrin

😂 now I wont blame you for jumping to that conclusion with the amount of negativity on here at times but no it was the opposite 👍