The Gulf

[Frazerbob]

Since the mid 80's the Old Firm have been miles ahead of the rest budget wise, which manifests itself on the pitch. In recent years that gap has grown massively year on year. Recent years have seen Celtic earning £40-50m from champions league qualification, that's before gate receipts, sponsorship, TV money etc. The gap has never been greater. We've all known for decades that there's no chance of a non Old Firm team winning the league. My fear is that we're not far away from the same being said about the cups. It's no longer a fair competition.

[Stokesy's on fire]

It also time to cut their allocation in the away end.

[Carheenlea]

The one-off ties always give you a sense that you can maybe pull a surprise, and sporting nature will always throw up some unexpected results. Drawing the old firm now does have more a feeling of foreboding about it, but I don’t think we are quite at that stage yet where the cups are guaranteed to be housed in old firm trophy cabinets.

The leagues long gone, and will be for my lifetime. Have seen nothing to suggest that anything will change that outcome other than an Old Firm departure, but where are they going to go? Not England.
An amalgamated Euro league of sorts maybe in a shake up of Champions/Europa league which effectively takes over European football for the financial benefit of biggest clubs?

Maybe one day and the rest of us fight for financial scraps at a level maybe lower than we enjoy at present, but one that night see a title win of sorts, but I just don’t see it happening any time soon.

[Carheenlea]

It also time to cut their allocation in the away end.

Because they keep beating us?

[Unseen work]

The gulf is unbelievable.

Celtic are so far ahead of everyone in the league and I wouldn’t be surprised if they put 3 or 4 past rangers on Monday.

Tonight the brought on Jota, Forrest, Giamakous and Bernabei as SUBS.

Turnbull was suspended and Haksabanovic not in the squad

[judas]

Since the mid 80's the Old Firm have been miles ahead of the rest budget wise, which manifests itself on the pitch. In recent years that gap has grown massively year on year. Recent years have seen Celtic earning £40-50m from champions league qualification, that's before gate receipts, sponsorship, TV money etc. The gap has never been greater. We've all known for decades that there's no chance of a non Old Firm team winning the league. My fear is that we're not far away from the same being said about the cups. It's no longer a fair competition.

The system is broken

My fear is that we see a reduction in support numbers across Scottish football or a domestic marginalising of old firm success.

No one really expects to beat the OF anymore.

[WestStandWillie]

Didn’t bother going tonight. Saw the outcome a mile off.

I’m fast losing interest in Scottish football. There’s genuinely nothing left for us to win. The league is beyond reach and it’s only getting further with each passing season. No one will invest heavily into a non OF team because they ain’t making any returns from it.

Paying a few hundred quid each year to watch us battle for a top half finish is getting long in the tooth.

I wholeheartedly agree with cutting allocation to 500 tickets. Try and get some leverage back. Sadly it would see the opposition fans getting into home end via Hibs mates.

[Donegal Hibby]

It also time to cut their allocation in the away end.
Which in turn will effect Hibs more financially and further increasing the Gulf not only with the old firm but with our rivals Aberdeen and hertz

[He's here!]

It also time to cut their allocation in the away end.

What would be the point of that? We were miles off selling out our own stands tonight so we'd make even less money on these games. Sad truth is if we'd opened up another stand to Celtic fans they'd have sold that out too and we'd at least have some more cash in the bank to compensate for the mis-match on the pitch.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

The gulf has always been there,always in my life. Yet in one off games we can beat them with belief and desire. Sadly that wasn't there tonight.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Which in turn will effect Hibs more financially and further increasing the Gulf not only with the old firm but with our rivals Aberdeen and hertz

Hearts have cut their allocation because their fans are turning up to support them while many of ours are staying away. Shame really.

[lyonhibs]

At least The Gulf is warm. Baltic wind tonight

[Donegal Hibby]

Hearts have cut their allocation because their fans are turning up to support them while many of ours are staying away. Shame really.
Maybe there fans are sticking with there team more when they hit a sticky patch , on here it's like the weather in Donegal , all sunny and cheerful one day and the next dark , gloomy and utterly depressing or maybe it's just they have a smaller stadium than us :greengrin

[MKHIBEE]

It also time to cut their allocation in the away end.


That will only make the gap bigger than it already is.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Didn’t bother going tonight. Saw the outcome a mile off.

I’m fast losing interest in Scottish football. There’s genuinely nothing left for us to win. The league is beyond reach and it’s only getting further with each passing season. No one will invest heavily into a non OF team because they ain’t making any returns from it.

Paying a few hundred quid each year to watch us battle for a top half finish is getting long in the tooth.

I wholeheartedly agree with cutting allocation to 500 tickets. Try and get some leverage back. Sadly it would see the opposition fans getting into home end via Hibs mates.

Pretty much where I am.

Even the wins hardly matter a **** now. I seen a tweet and it essentially said ‘Harry Kane has scored 300 career goals and not one of them has mattered’.

Whilst I think that’s a stretch, it makes sense and I think watching Hibs just now is the same. Even wins like Livi on Christmas Eve have a feel of hardly mattering as it’s a win to keep us in 8th ****ing place that we know is going to be followed up by numerous crap results and the season culminating in a whole load of nothing.

I’ve never felt less enthusiastic or more apathetic to watching Hibs than I do now and I include relegation in that. I watched us not lay a glove on Celtic last night and almost look like we weren’t trying hard enough at times and couldn’t even be arsed to shout about it at the game. When you read the posts on here, there’s clearly quite a lot of folk feel that way. Our club has been run into the ground.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Which in turn will effect Hibs more financially and further increasing the Gulf not only with the old firm but with our rivals Aberdeen and hertz

If our own fans turned up we wouldn't need to worry about that.

[hibsbollah]

Pretty much where I am.

Even the wins hardly matter a **** now. I seen a tweet and it essentially said ‘Harry Kane has scored 300 career goals and not one of them has mattered’.

Whilst I think that’s a stretch, it makes sense and I think watching Hibs just now is the same. Even wins like Livi on Christmas Eve have a feel of hardly mattering as it’s a win to keep us in 8th ****ing place that we know is going to be followed up by numerous crap results and the season culminating in a whole load of nothing.

I’ve never felt less enthusiastic or more apathetic to watching Hibs than I do now and I include relegation in that. I watched us not lay a glove on Celtic last night and almost look like we weren’t trying hard enough at times and couldn’t even be arsed to shout about it at the game. When you read the posts on here, there’s clearly quite a lot of folk feel that way. Our club has been run into the ground.

But are you complaining about The Gulf in Scottish football or the decisions that Gordon is taking at Hibs? Because whatever decisions he made or route he decided to go down would have made no difference to Celtics £40-60million financial windfall.

If you were choosing a random sport or league to follow you’d never ever choose Scottish football.

[superfurryhibby]

Didn’t bother going tonight. Saw the outcome a mile off.

I’m fast losing interest in Scottish football. There’s genuinely nothing left for us to win. The league is beyond reach and it’s only getting further with each passing season. No one will invest heavily into a non OF team because they ain’t making any returns from it.

Paying a few hundred quid each year to watch us battle for a top half finish is getting long in the tooth.

I wholeheartedly agree with cutting allocation to 500 tickets. Try and get some leverage back. Sadly it would see the opposition fans getting into home end via Hibs mates.

Nothing left for us to win , right enough if you except the Scottish Cup and League Cup, both of which gave me enormous pleasure when seeing us win them.

Some perspective required I think.

[Ozyhibby]

More worried about the gulf developing between us and hearts right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alfred E Newman]

It also time to cut their allocation in the away end.

Unless we can fill it with our own fans it would be financial lunacy.

[weecounty hibby]

Didn't post on here last night after the game as I knew what it would be like and I also wanted to digest what had happened and think rationally about it.

Celtic had approx 30m worth if talent on their bench last night. We had McKirdy, Henderson etc. Celtic can and will spend millions on a player safe in the knowledge that they will likely make a profit. We cant. The gulf between us and celtic is huge and won't ever be reduced unless something drastic is done, not just in Scottish football but world football. We can't get near celtic, they can't get near the big European teams. Its all about finance and/or having backers who have multi billions to throw away on their plaything. I actually thought we did OK last night. Celtic are a very good side and it would be no surprise to see them take 3 or 4 off the hun at Ibrox, lets not hide the fact that thereis a gulf between celtic and the hun as well at the moment. On and off the park the hun are mikes behind them.

No amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth will change any of the above. We need to be more competitive against the tarts and the sheep rather than look at the old firm and wish we could challenge them. One off games and cup competitions perhaps but sadly Scottish football has been stale and stagnantfor 40 years now since the bigot twins started properly using their financial muscle. Celtic have won 112 major honours and the hun 116 major honours in Scotland. The best of the rest has won 17!!!! Scottish football has always been pretty one sided when you take the bigots as one but it has never been less competitive than it is now. Drastic change is required and not just at Hibs

[Stubbsy90+2]

But are you complaining about The Gulf in Scottish football or the decisions that Gordon is taking at Hibs? Because whatever decisions he made or route he decided to go down would have made no difference to Celtics £40-60million financial windfall.

If you were choosing a random sport or league to follow you’d never ever choose Scottish football.

A bit of both.

A few years ago I would say every non Old Firm top flight team in Scotland had no chance of winning the league but near enough everyone had a chance of a cup. I’d say that’s now been reduced to anyone in the top 4 at a push and that chance is slowly diminishing to almost 0 as well.

Looking at us though, we’ve so woefully mismanaged ourselves over that period that we’re not in that conversation anymore imo. We’re a mid table/bottom six club who have no real prospect of a decent European run or a cup win anymore. We’re getting to the point where we’re playing for nothing every season.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Didn't post on here last night after the game as I knew what it would be like and I also wanted to digest what had happened and think rationally about it.

Celtic had approx 30m worth if talent on their bench last night. We had McKirdy, Henderson etc. Celtic can and will spend millions on a player safe in the knowledge that they will likely make a profit. We cant. The gulf between us and celtic is huge and won't ever be reduced unless something drastic is done, not just in Scottish football but world football. We can't get near celtic, they can't get near the big European teams. Its all about finance and/or having backers who have multi billions to throw away on their plaything. I actually thought we did OK last night. Celtic are a very good side and it would be no surprise to see them take 3 or 4 off the hun at Ibrox, lets not hide the fact that thereis a gulf between celtic and the hun as well at the moment. On and off the park the hun are mikes behind them.

No amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth will change any of the above. We need to be more competitive against the tarts and the sheep rather than look at the old firm and wish we could challenge them. One off games and cup competitions perhaps but sadly Scottish football has been stale and stagnantfor 40 years now since the bigot twins started properly using their financial muscle. Celtic have won 112 major honours and the hun 116 major honours in Scotland. The best of the rest has won 17!!!! Scottish football has always been pretty one sided when you take the bigots as one but it has never been less competitive than it is now. Drastic change is required and not just at Hibs

Why have other teams been able to push them close recently then?

[weecounty hibby]

Why have other teams been able to push them close recently then?

Close on what? League wins? Cup wins? Or one off games? Celtic have lost only one of their last 51 league games. Won a quadruple treble. Nine in a row. No one is pushing them code at all

[Stokesy's on fire]

Why have other teams been able to push them close recently then?

Who?

[Frazerbob]

Celtic have won their last 12 league games.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Close on what? League wins? Cup wins? Or one off games? Celtic have lost only one of their last 51 league games. Won a quadruple treble. Nine in a row. No one is pushing them code at all

They’ve won 4 of their last 6 by 1 goal and 1 of them by 2 goals that they scored in added time.

Why have these teams (a lot of them with smaller budgets than us) been able to push them closer whilst we’ve been rogered 6-1 and 4-0 whilst looking like we aren’t even trying?

Teams are able to give them a game, their recent results show that yet you’re using their wealth as an excuse as to why we couldn’t give them a game.

[hibeesjoe]

Hearts made a few million from the conference league and if they spend it wisely then they will probably pull away from the best of the rest, finish 3rd again and qualify for either the conference or the Europa League and it keeps on going. That's what Hibs should be aiming for.

No one outside the old firm will win the league so the occasional upset to celebrate, cup runs, 3rd and Europe if the best you can do and I'm sure most fans would happily take that every year.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[Frazerbob]

They’ve won 4 of their last 6 by 1 goal and 1 of them by 2 goals that they scored in added time.

Why have these teams (a lot of them with smaller budgets than us) been able to push them closer whilst we’ve been rogered 6-1 and 4-0 whilst looking like we aren’t even trying?

Teams are able to give them a game, their recent results show that yet you’re using their wealth as an excuse as to why we couldn’t give them a game.

Even close results were miss-matches on the pitch. Procession stats around 20-80 at Aberdeen for example.

[weecounty hibby]

They’ve won 4 of their last 6 by 1 goal and 1 of them by 2 goals that they scored in added time.

Why have these teams (a lot of them with smaller budgets than us) been able to push them closer whilst we’ve been rogered 6-1 and 4-0 whilst looking like we aren’t even trying?

Teams are able to give them a game, their recent results show that yet you’re using their wealth as an excuse as to why we couldn’t give them a game.

So how many more points did these teams pick up than we did? No one is pushing them close. Aberdeen lost 1 0 but had 19% possession, zero shots on target, zero shots on goal and zero corners. I can only imagine how you'd react to that at ER. Last night we had a goal disallowed, hit the post and had a number of other half decent chances. I'd say we ran them every bit as close as aberdeen

[Chorley Hibee]

Who?

Livingston, Aberdeen, Ross County, Dundee Utd and Hearts have all given them a damn sight harder game in the last couple of months than we have.

Take out the first 15/20 minutes from last night and it was yet another spineless show from the cowards masquerading as a football team.

Folk cracking one off over a Celtic side that was given the freedom of ER to waltz around unchallenged and barely out of 1st gear for 70 minutes. They weren't anything special last night, an ability to apply the basic requirements of football is all that's needed to roll Hibs over right now.

On another note, our record at ER for years now is atrocious. We really need to be making the place difficult to come to, a place teams don't enjoy visiting. Sadly, it's anything but that.

[Stubbsy90+2]

So how many more points did these teams pick up than we did? No one is pushing them close. Aberdeen lost 1 0 but had 19% possession, zero shots on target, zero shots on goal and zero corners. I can only imagine how you'd react to that at ER. Last night we had a goal disallowed, hit the post and had a number of other half decent chances. I'd say we ran them every bit as close as aberdeen

If you’re trying to argue we ran them as close as Aberdeen who lost 1-0 with an 87th min goal compared to us losing 4-0 then there’s no point in carrying on the conversation.

We allowed celtic to stroll through that game in second gear and skelp us. Aberdeen battled like **** and almost got a result.

[Chorley Hibee]

So how many more points did these teams pick up than we did? No one is pushing them close. Aberdeen lost 1 0 but had 19% possession, zero shots on target, zero shots on goal and zero corners. I can only imagine how you'd react to that at ER. Last night we had a goal disallowed, hit the post and had a number of other half decent chances. I'd say we ran them every bit as close as aberdeen

Celtic had the 3 points in the bag within 58 minutes last night.

They needed a goal with a couple of minutes to go to beat Aberdeen.

Regardless of the tactics involved, Aberdeen were still in with a shout of something from the game to the final kick of the ball. How you can say we gave them as much of a game as Aberdeen did (when our game was done and dusted after less than an hour) is beyond me.

[makaveli1875]

The gulf is not as bad as it was when I was a youngster . Rangers had world class players like Gazza , Laudrup etc and Celtic had world class players like Di canio and van hooijdonk . They can't get players of that calibre any more so it doesnt really matter how much extra cash they have . They're both beatable at the moment and that's something you couldn't say in the 90s

[weecounty hibby]

FFS now Aberdeen are Barcelona. They had zero corners, zero shots on target and Zero shots on goal at all but aye they didn't half give celtic a game.

[weecounty hibby]

The gulf is not as bad as it was when I was a youngster . Rangers had world class players like Gazza , Laudrup etc and Celtic had world class players like Di canio and van hooijdonk . They can't get players of that calibre any more so it doesnt really matter how much extra cash they have . They're both beatable at the moment and that's something you couldn't say in the 90s

Where is the evidence that celtic are beatable? They have lost one game in the league in their last 50

[Chorley Hibee]

The gulf is not as bad as it was when I was a youngster . Rangers had world class players like Gazza , Laudrup etc and Celtic had world class players like Di canio and van hooijdonk . They can't get players of that calibre any more so it doesnt really matter how much extra cash they have . They're both beatable at the moment and that's something you couldn't say in the 90s

Agreed, and Hibs still managed to get a lot nearer to those sides than we are managing against the current Celtic/Rangers teams.

I agree Celtic are the best there is at this level, but our unwillingness to even get near them, and the cowardly manner in which we have almost lay down to them of recent, is a disgrace and shouldn't be accepted at a club of our stature.

It's saddening to see just how many fans seem to find it acceptable now too.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Where is the evidence that celtic are beatable? They have lost one game in the league in their last 50

They lost about 11 games ago. I’m not sure what more evidence you need.

[GreenCastle]

Said for years Celtic and Rangers will continue to win the league.

Everyone else is playing for mighty 3rd and a fortunate cup run.

That’s why it’s so annoying when we get pumped out league cup early on. Draws can be tough but it was feeble.

The gulf is obvious and fans aren’t delusional thinking we should beat the old firm but like Derbies there is a certain level of pride expected when we play them. Annoying we play them x3 or more times a season and often x2 are away from home.

I said on another thread though..part time teams (Falkirk / Morton) have beaten Hibs this season and given us a game like Bonnyrigg so it’s not impossible.

[Chorley Hibee]

FFS now Aberdeen are Barcelona. They had zero corners, zero shots on target and Zero shots on goal at all but aye they didn't half give celtic a game.

Who said they were Barcelona? The argument was who gave them the harder game.

If you think we gave them as difficult a game as Aberdeen did then I don't understand your logic behind such a statement.

I wouldn't be a fan of approaching the game in the manner Aberdeen did, but they worked a damn sight harder than we did last night, that's for certain.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Who said they were Barcelona? The argument was who gave them the harder game.

If you think we gave them as difficult a game as Aberdeen did then I don't understand your logic behind such a statement.

I wouldn't be a fan of approaching the game in the manner Aberdeen did, but they worked a damn sight harder than we did last night, that's for certain.

:agree:

It’s almost unfathomable that anyone could argue otherwise.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Livingston, Aberdeen, Ross County, Dundee Utd and Hearts have all given them a damn sight harder game in the last couple of months than we have.

Take out the first 15/20 minutes from last night and it was yet another spineless show from the cowards masquerading as a football team.

Folk cracking one off over a Celtic side that was given the freedom of ER to waltz around unchallenged and barely out of 1st gear for 70 minutes. They weren't anything special last night, an ability to apply the basic requirements of football is all that's needed to roll Hibs over right now.

On another note, our record at ER for years now is atrocious. We really need to be making the place difficult to come to, a place teams don't enjoy visiting. Sadly, it's anything but that.


Doesn't matter who gave them a better game when the end results in 3 points to them.

[B.H.F.C]

Agreed, and Hibs still managed to get a lot nearer to those sides than we are managing against the current Celtic/Rangers teams.

I agree Celtic are the best there is at this level, but our unwillingness to even get near them, and the cowardly manner in which we have almost lay down to them of recent, is a disgrace and shouldn't be accepted at a club of our stature.

It's saddening to see just how many fans seem to find it acceptable now too.

Totally agree. We all appreciate that Celtic are miles in front and they can do what they did to you last night. But the acceptance from the players as soon as we lost the first goal was (again) sickening for me.

I thought two players kept going, Rocky and Campbell. I don’t think they’re particularly good players but they were the only two who wanted to at least get about them and be physical. There was a point with about 10 minutes to go where Rocky went absolutely ballistic at Newell for not making any attempt to track a runner and that just sums our team up. Not willing to do the hard work required. Contrast that to Celtic, Mooy at 4-0 sprinted 40 yards to pressure Cadden, forced him to go back the way, ball kicked long, they had it back. We maybe can’t match their ability but we should always be able to match their attitude and work rate.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Doesn't matter who gave them a better game when the end results in 3 points to them.

It does though because people expect us to do the bare minimum and compete with Celtic whilst maybe not winning. We didn’t do that, we gave them the freedom of Easter Road.

Aberdeen didn’t do that, hence why it took Celtic until the 87th minute to break them down. They at least showed effort, application and were difficult to break down.

[Chorley Hibee]

Doesn't matter who gave them a better game when the end results in 3 points to them.

It does matter in some sense, because I'd much rather lose, whilst having made them work hard for it, than watch us lie down to them in the manner we do.

There is no excuse for our lack of fitness, or unwillingness to close down, track a runner or put in a challenge.

These are the very basic requirements I expect to see, particularly in a game of such magnitude as last night.

We don't even have that though.

[WhileTheChief..]

St J won the cup double with a tiny budget. Celtic's millions didn't help them that season.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

St J won the cup double with a tiny budget. Celtic's millions didn't help them that season.

Correct, the past decade has seen the trophies spread around more than at any time in my lifetime.

[Stokesy's on fire]

It does matter in some sense, because I'd much rather lose, whilst having made them work hard for it, than watch us lie down to them in the manner we do.

There is no excuse for our lack of fitness, or unwillingness to close down, track a runner or put in a challenge.

These are the very basic requirements I expect to see, particularly in a game of such magnitude as last night.

We don't even have that though.


We didn't lie down last night we just turned crap after the 15 minute mark

[GreenCastle]

We didn't lie down last night we just turned crap after the 15 minute mark

I don’t think we turned crap we just are pretty crap.

We have shown in glimpses this season we can be competitive but rarely that’s a 90 minute performance against 11 players.

Aberdeen away first half
Ibrox recently 1st 35 mins

We are back to lose the 1st goal and rarely seeing us turning it around getting back into a game.

[superfurryhibby]

A bit of both.

A few years ago I would say every non Old Firm top flight team in Scotland had no chance of winning the league but near enough everyone had a chance of a cup. I’d say that’s now been reduced to anyone in the top 4 at a push and that chance is slowly diminishing to almost 0 as well.

Looking at us though, we’ve so woefully mismanaged ourselves over that period that we’re not in that conversation anymore imo. We’re a mid table/bottom six club who have no real prospect of a decent European run or a cup win anymore. We’re getting to the point where we’re playing for nothing every season.

I’m puzzled, St Johnston recently won a cup double and I’m not aware that they were a top four side?

I would guess that there have been as many non OF cup wins in the recent years than any other period in the games history, off the top of my head, Ross County, Hibs, St Johnston, St Mirren, ICT, Aberdeen, Hearts, they’ve been cup winners in fairly recent times.

I don’t have the sense that Hibs are playing for nothing, or anything approaching that. I would stop going to matches if it became a complete duopoly. There’s no evidence that’s happening though, so I think we can try and contain going OTT with the voice of doom.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I’m puzzled, St Johnston recently won a cup double and I’m not aware that they were a top four side?

I would guess that there have been as many non OF cup wins in the recent years than any other period in the games history, off the top of my head, Ross County, Hibs, St Johnston, St Mirren, ICT, Aberdeen, Hearts, they’ve been cup winners in fairly recent times.

I don’t have the sense that Hibs are playing for nothing, or anything approaching that. I would stop going to matches if it became a complete duopoly. There’s no evidence that’s happening though, so I think we can try and contain going OTT with the voice of doom.

Both the Scottish cup and League Cup have had 1 non OF winner in 6 years by the time the finals take place this year. That’s the worst run where both cups were kept by the OF at the same time since the turn of the millennium with those runs going from the late 90s to early 2000s when Hearts won the Scottish but nobody else won anything.

10 years or so ago the trophy’s were spread out a bit. The League Cup for example was won 5 times by non OF teams in 6 seasons about 10 years ago. The Scottish Cup was 4 times in 6 years by non OF teams. So that’s 9 out of 12 won by non OF teams during a 6 year period compared to 2 out of 12 more recently.

Non OF teams winning cups doesn’t happen nearly as much now and imo it’s only going to get worse with at least one of them being back in the Champions League with the riches that come with that.

You said there’s no evidence of it but imo when you look at the cups and who’s been winning them there’s plenty evidence. It’s as bad as it’s been in a generation.

I do believe the majority of us are playing for nothing pretty much. The last decent thing we’ve got to play for us the 3rd place spot with guaranteed European group stage and that’s likely only going to last another 2 or 3 seasons. I’d suggest as well that we’re not playing for that this season due to our woeful recruitment and without a drastic change we’ll not be playing for 3rd until long after the guaranteed group stage spot is gone.

[Stokesy's on fire]

I don’t think we turned crap we just are pretty crap.

We have shown in glimpses this season we can be competitive but rarely that’s a 90 minute performance against 11 players.

Aberdeen away first half
Ibrox recently 1st 35 mins

We are back to lose the 1st goal and rarely seeing us turning it around getting back into a game.

Agree

[Hibernia&Alba]

In all leagues the money is becoming more concentrated with the biggest/richest clubs. Scotland, having only two genuinely 'big' clubs, will experience a more extreme version of this phenomenon. The Old Firm, with their huge support and appeal to advertisers will always have far deeper pockets than the rest of us. In addition, the money now available in European competitions means the wealth gap will grow ever wider. Unless another club is lucky enough to attract a very wealthy owner, the league title won't leave Glasgow for decades, in all likelihood.

[OstKurve Hibs]

They’ve won 4 of their last 6 by 1 goal and 1 of them by 2 goals that they scored in added time.

Why have these teams (a lot of them with smaller budgets than us) been able to push them closer whilst we’ve been rogered 6-1 and 4-0 whilst looking like we aren’t even trying?

Teams are able to give them a game, their recent results show that yet you’re using their wealth as an excuse as to why we couldn’t give them a game.

This is what I was wondering to and all I can come up with is that other teams get in their faces, close down quicker and generally put in more effort and make celtic use their quality to get the win, we just stood there and watched them play for 75 minutes last nite,
Apart from a few players we are a complete namby pampy side with not much desire to get stuck in and fight when we are up against it.
We dont win many games against teams that are more up for it than us on the day, our players go into our shell, it's like half our team Hope's the opposition cant be arsed that day and we will get any easy 3 points, like against livvy on saturday there.

[Frazerbob]

Correct, the past decade has seen the trophies spread around more than at any time in my lifetime.

That was before at least a couple of £40m plus cash injections. Even compared to a few years ago, the financial gap is much bigger.

[JimBHibees]

This is what I was wondering to and all I can come up with is that other teams get in their faces, close down quicker and generally put in more effort and make celtic use their quality to get the win, we just stood there and watched them play for 75 minutes last nite,
Apart from a few players we are a complete namby pampy side with not much desire to get stuck in and fight when we are up against it.
We dont win many games against teams that are more up for it than us on the day, our players go into our shell, it's like half our team Hope's the opposition cant be arsed that day and we will get any easy 3 points, like against livvy on saturday there.

Got to assume these other teams are better organised defensively probably work harder as a team and don't pack in when they lose a goal. Please drop two or three who go missing when the going gets tough.

[Smartie]

It's a very good Celtic side, not an invincible one.

We had 2 main failings - a weak midfield and a naive manager.

I've previously seen Neil Lennon go with a stout gameplan against Celtic involving Danny Swanson stopping Scott Brown having time on the ball to dictate play.

The number of touches Mooy was able to get on the ball last night because we either didn't have the desire, the workrate or the tactical astuteness to realise that letting him do whatever he wanted with it was unforgivable.

Had we done some of these things better we might still have lost, probably would have, but we could come away from the game thinking we'd done our best and made them play well to beat us. Truth is, I don't think we're nearly good enough to force them to play well to beat us. Too many people were either not good enough, having an off night or just not all that arsed because they were beaten before a ball was kicked in their own heads.

[where'stheslope]

EPL clubs are looking at Celtic World Cup fullback, I don't think he will be moving for less than £20 million.
So it means they will be even further ahead of the rest!!!

[superfurryhibby]

Both the Scottish cup and League Cup have had 1 non OF winner in 6 years by the time the finals take place this year. That’s the worst run where both cups were kept by the OF at the same time since the turn of the millennium with those runs going from the late 90s to early 2000s when Hearts won the Scottish but nobody else won anything.

10 years or so ago the trophy’s were spread out a bit. The League Cup for example was won 5 times by non OF teams in 6 seasons about 10 years ago. The Scottish Cup was 4 times in 6 years by non OF teams. So that’s 9 out of 12 won by non OF teams during a 6 year period compared to 2 out of 12 more recently.

Non OF teams winning cups doesn’t happen nearly as much now and imo it’s only going to get worse with at least one of them being back in the Champions League with the riches that come with that.

You said there’s no evidence of it but imo when you look at the cups and who’s been winning them there’s plenty evidence. It’s as bad as it’s been in a generation.

I do believe the majority of us are playing for nothing pretty much. The last decent thing we’ve got to play for us the 3rd place spot with guaranteed European group stage and that’s likely only going to last another 2 or 3 seasons. I’d suggest as well that we’re not playing for that this season due to our woeful recruitment and without a drastic change we’ll not be playing for 3rd until long after the guaranteed group stage spot is gone.

What you’re saying doesn’t reflect the actual reality. Looking at our game decade by decade, only the 80’s have seen non OF win more than 50% of (thanks to Aberdeens run of Scottish Cup wins) one or other cups, that’s going back to WW2.

The game’s lack of competition is much the same as it has been for the past century. Let’s not invent stuff or try and bend figures to suit in order to make it seem worse.

[Stubbsy90+2]

What you’re saying doesn’t reflect the actual reality. Looking at our game decade by decade, only the 80’s have seen non OF win more than 50% of (thanks to Aberdeens run of Scottish Cup wins) one or other cups, that’s going back to WW2.

The game’s lack of competition is much the same as it has been for the past century. Let’s not invent stuff or try and bend figures to suit in order to make it seem worse.

I’m not suggesting 50%. We’re currently in a spell of 11% in terms of the trophies available and with the way it’s going that will be even lower after this season when Celtic and/or rangers inevitably win the lot.

There’s no bending figures. This is the worst spell there’s been for a generation in terms of the Old Firm holding every trophy available for so much of the time. That’s simply a fact. If you’re mid 30s or younger you’ll not really remember a period in Scottish football that has been as dominated by the Old Firm in terms of the trophies as we’re in now. If you’re that age as well you’ll have never seen anyone else win the league.

There’s been 75 League Cup finals. Non OF teams have won 38% of them.

There’s been 135 Scottish Cup finals. Non OF teams have won 46% of them.

Top flight league titles have been won 15% of the time by a non OF team but never in my life time now and I’d imagine there never will be.

Historically non OF teams have fared much better than we all are just now. This is one of the most dominant periods for the OF in memory for the majority of our fan base. Anyone who’s below 50 has only seen one or two spells where this dominance could be matched.

If you look at those figures and think that the majority of teams in our league are actually genuinely competing for something then fair enough. The majority aren’t though imo, we’re just here to make up the numbers. We play in a league we have literally no chance of winning and cups that we will be lucky to see our teams win 4 or 5 times in our life.

[loanheadhibby]

More worried about the gulf developing between us and hearts right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly that's my worry.
If they finally get their act together I feel they may pull away from us.

[Keith_M]

Celtc's league results so far this season are: W-18, D-0, L-1. Goals For - 61, Goals Against - 15.


Kind of puts last night's defeat in perspective.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Celtc's league results so far this season are: W-18, D-0, L-1. Goals For - 61, Goals Against - 15.


Kind of puts last night's defeat in perspective.

It’s not the defeat that gets peoples backs up.

It’s the insipid way we perform yet again. They’ve not been blowing teams away recently yet we sit here and don’t lay a glove on them. That was their biggest league win since the last time we played them and put in another embarrassing performance.

[Islington Hibs]

Given how little chance any side has to break the duopoly I think it extraordinary how strong the support base of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and some of the smaller towns actually is.

That said while for 40 years its always been a two hose race the gap is now widening to an extent where it is becoming really boring and UI suspect all the challengers will gradually see interest decline outside games that really matter like the Derby.

The tragedy is the league would be exciting and really competitive without Celtic and Rangers with perhaps 6-8 sides genuinely capable of success including the likes of Motherwell and St Mirren.

I can't see it happening but I genuinely think the Scottish League would be much better off if both Celtic and Rangers could be found a new home down south or in some European league. If that can't happen I would possibly favour going up the pyramid in England. In time we would be in either the Championship or occasionally better. Hibs are bigger than Burnley, Brentford or Bournemouth to name but three . Leeds Utd or Sheffield Wednesday v Hibs has a better ring around it than playing Ross County.

None of that will happen but if I was Ron Gordon, or even the CEO's of our main rivals, I would be starting discussions in private as the current structure dooms their ownership to long term disappointment. They must be aware.

[Glory Lurker]

The ideal would be a breakaway that excluded Rangers and Celtic. Not a chance of that happening sadly.

[OstKurve Hibs]

Given how little chance any side has to break the duopoly I think it extraordinary how strong the support base of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and some of the smaller towns actually is.

That said while for 40 years its always been a two hose race the gap is now widening to an extent where it is becoming really boring and UI suspect all the challengers will gradually see interest decline outside games that really matter like the Derby.

The tragedy is the league would be exciting and really competitive without Celtic and Rangers with perhaps 6-8 sides genuinely capable of success including the likes of Motherwell and St Mirren.

I can't see it happening but I genuinely think the Scottish League would be much better off if both Celtic and Rangers could be found a new home down south or in some European league. If that can't happen I would possibly favour going up the pyramid in England. In time we would be in either the Championship or occasionally better. Hibs are bigger than Burnley, Brentford or Bournemouth to name but three . Leeds Utd or Sheffield Wednesday v Hibs has a better ring around it than playing Ross County.

None of that will happen but if I was Ron Gordon, or even the CEO's of our main rivals, I would be starting discussions in private as the current structure dooms their ownership to long term disappointment. They must be aware.

I'd definitely vote in favour of going up the pyramids in england if that was a possibility. Bored ****less of this same guff year after year now, playing each other 4 times, possibly 6 or 7 if drawn together in cups. Wouldnt have to listen to the bigotry pish aswell.

[superfurryhibby]

Both the Scottish cup and League Cup have had 1 non OF winner in 6 years by the time the finals take place this year. That’s the worst run where both cups were kept by the OF at the same time since the turn of the millennium with those runs going from the late 90s to early 2000s when Hearts won the Scottish but nobody else won anything.

10 years or so ago the trophy’s were spread out a bit. The League Cup for example was won 5 times by non OF teams in 6 seasons about 10 years ago. The Scottish Cup was 4 times in 6 years by non OF teams. So that’s 9 out of 12 won by non OF teams during a 6 year period compared to 2 out of 12 more recently.

Non OF teams winning cups doesn’t happen nearly as much now and imo it’s only going to get worse with at least one of them being back in the Champions League with the riches that come with that.

You said there’s no evidence of it but imo when you look at the cups and who’s been winning them there’s plenty evidence. It’s as bad as it’s been in a generation.

I do believe the majority of us are playing for nothing pretty much. The last decent thing we’ve got to play for us the 3rd place spot with guaranteed European group stage and that’s likely only going to last another 2 or 3 seasons. I’d suggest as well that we’re not playing for that this season due to our woeful recruitment and without a drastic change we’ll not be playing for 3rd until long after the guaranteed group stage spot is gone.

No, your either not grasping what I’m saying or being deliberately obtuse. I gave an easily relatable time frame, one we can all grasp easily. Going decade by decade since WW2. I don’t relate to your last six years or a generation ( a tad random that is) . What you say is wrong, end of. I’m happy with my overview, decade by decade comparison works for me.

[Stubbsy90+2]

No, you’re either not grasping what I’m saying or being deliberately obtuse. I gave an easily relatable time frame, one we can all grasp easily. Going decade by decade since WW2. I don’t relate to your last six years or a generation ( a tad random that is) . What you say is wrong, end of. I’m happy with my overview, decade by decade comparison works for me.

Ok, well I declare that what you say is wrong and I’m happy with my overview. See how easy that is?

Generational overview and runs where teams are winning trophies work just as well for me as the fact you picked decades works for you. There’s a whole generation of fans who have grown up watching the non Old Firm teams playing in a league where they’ve no chance of competing for a title and know no different.

The fact you seem to think the last 6 years as a time frame or what a generation of fan is isn’t easy to grasp sounds more like your problem, not mine.

[Lago]

Scottish football is broken, the current league format is unattractive and will only become more so as the OF continue to dominate. As someone as pointed out interest from fans will decline and new fans will be attracted to teams down south, you just need to see the number of football tops displayed by youngsters in Scotland, can it be fixed, doubt it.

[Smartie]

Sadly football is just a game of willy waving for rich men with fragile egos.

Those of us who fell in love with the game at a more innocent age are just pawns in their game.

It won't change meaningfully and we just individually need to decide if there's enough in it for us to keep going or whether we'd rather just sack it.

Nights like last night - watching your team getting horsed while being serenaded about the relative merits of joining a terrorist organisation certainly makes you question things.

[Scotty Leither]

Celtc's league results so far this season are: W-18, D-0, L-1. Goals For - 61, Goals Against - 15.


Kind of puts last night's defeat in perspective.

10 of these goals were against us. Last night’s game one goal short of the five-goal margin at Parkhead, which seemed to be a “plus point” for David Brent is his post-match ramblings.

[matty_f]

They lost about 11 games ago. I’m not sure what more evidence you need.

That's almost never though, going by the logic that says we almost never beat 11 men, which we've done twice.

So almost never if it's us and it's twice, and all the evidence you need when it's Celtic and it's once, 11 games ago.

[Stubbsy90+2]

That's almost never though, going by the logic that says we almost never beat 11 men, which we've done twice.

So almost never if it's us and it's twice, and all the evidence you need when it's Celtic and it's once, 11 games ago.

The poster asked for evidence that they are beatable or something to that effect, implying that they simply cannot be beaten. That’s completely different from saying we ALMOST never beat 11 men because that statement still implies that we do manage to sometimes, which we do.

If someone said there’s no evidence that we can beat 11 men they’d get the same answer as the one about Celtic, that we’ve done it twice so the evidence is there.

So yes, when it’s us it’s almost never and when it’s Celtic it’s almost never. The statement they posted though wasn’t suggesting an ‘almost never’, it was simply suggesting ‘never’.

[matty_f]

The poster asked for evidence that they are beatable or something to that effect, implying that they simply cannot be beaten. That’s completely different from saying we ALMOST never beat 11 men because that statement still implies that we do manage to sometimes, which we do.

If someone said there’s no evidence that we can beat 11 men they’d get the same answer as the one about Celtic. That we’ve done it twice so the evidence is there.

It's semantics though, really. Like choosing to be very picky about the language when it suits.

[Stubbsy90+2]

It's semantics though, really. Like choosing to be very picky about the language when it suits.

No, it’s not semantics at all.

The poster never said evidence they can be beat often, or that they almost never get beat, they asked for evidence they can be beaten at all where as nobody has ever suggested we simply cannot beat 11 men, they’ve suggested we’re crap at it.

[DIXIHIBS]

Exactly that's my worry.
If they finally get their act together I feel they may pull away from us.

Maybe for a couple of seasons but very rarely does a team "pull away" for an extended period. They've been relegated twice in the last ten years alone and that was after they supposedly destroyed us in the cup 2012. Before Wednesdays games they had won the same amount of games as us. Despite how bad we appear to be just now they are not world beaters. Yes i think they will finish above us this season, probably 3rd, but leaving us behind...nah. We will be back.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Maybe for a couple of seasons but very rarely does a team "pull away" for an extended period. They've been relegated twice in the last ten years alone and that was after they supposedly destroyed us in the cup 2012. Before Wednesdays games they had won the same amount of games as us. Despite how bad we appear to be just now they are not world beaters. Yes i think they will finish above us this season, probably 3rd, but leaving us behind...nah. We will be back.

I’m not sure there’s ever been a gulf in finances as there is now though other than under Romanov when they were a basket case.

If they finish third this season they’ll probably have around double our turnover when you consider European money, donations from Anderson and FOH and their larger normal turnover. If that comes to pass then I’d suspect they will start to pull away.

[DIXIHIBS]

I’m not sure there’s ever been a gulf in finances as there is now though other than under Romanov when they were a basket case.

If they finish third this season they’ll probably have around double our turnover when you consider European money, donations from Anderson and FOH and their larger normal turnover. If that comes to pass then I’d suspect they will start to pull away.

I get that but they had a huge financial advantage under romanov and their on pitch superiority was temporary. Very difficult to maintain that over a long period. Time will tell i suppose.

[Glory Lurker]

I was thinking after posting that the ideal would be an OF-free breakaway that maybe it would just be replaced by a new two horse race. I was thinking Hearts and Aberdeen because of their funding superiority.

I do think Hearts have a real chance to pull away from us whatever the league. Their income streams now are very different to the Romanov days. I think there is still a tendency on our side to avoid the reality of that.

[WhileTheChief..]

Get someone that's good with excel to remove the results against the old firm each week and keep a league table of it. Similar to bookies taking bets on league winners excluding the OF.

Next, get a company or loaded individual to put up a prize of £1m for winning that league.

Winners still get to play in Europe as they'd still be finishing 3rd or 4th in the proper league most likely.

Just need to come up with a funky name for it. It would soon catch on, and we'd all be playing for the 'funky named league title' each year with no old firm involved.

We could use games against them to blood our youngsters. The SPFL would then be a de facto league of 2. Everyone's happy.

[Mon Dieu4]

There is a massive gulf when you are talking consistency over a season but I think the one off games against them should be treated like a cup final and not enough of our players treat it like that and are beaten before the game even starts

[DIXIHIBS]

Hibs hearts and aberdeen have a huge financial superiority over the rest of the league (non old firm) but those other teams regularly beat that 3 and regularly get in top 6. No one says that money doesnt make a difference but no team has really pulled away over an extended period. How many thought hearts would pull away from us after 2012? A few years later they were relegated and we won the scottish. The extra money at this level doesnt seem to make that much difference.

[green&left]

Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen should be taking some responsibility for the gulf too. Considering the gap between those 3 clubs and the rest of the league (excluding the OF obviously and maybe Dundee Utd) the lack of consistency is pretty staggering. You can't blame Rangers and Celtic for us, Hertz and the dons yo-yoing all over the place.

Aberdeen had a great chance to cement themselves as a "top 3" club when the huns died and you also had Hibs and Hearts out the league. They finished second 4 times on the bounce I think but never really invested and failed 4 times on the trot to get passed the 3rd round Europa qualifier. Took them until 2019 to invest in training facilities, still playing at a complete hovel and the board has opted for Stephen Glass then Jim Goodwin to take them forward. Large catchment area, wealthy area/city, plenty potential but never invested properly and here they are parking the bus at home infront of barely 9000 of their own fans.

Hearts have literally pissed about a hundred million up the wall between the the Romanov era right upto today with the FoH, Budge and James Anderson money. However out the 3, probably have the best opportunity to grow their finances. The FoH money is still flooding in, Anderson has committed to donations for a few years yet and they've got the Europa price and gate money over us and Aberdeen too. They're hitting near sellouts most weeks aswell. Should they finish 3rd this year and qualify for Europa League or Conference again a gap between them and us/dons could start to appear.

We should've kicked on and but didn't. Scottish Cup win followed by promotion out the championship followed by finishing in a european place. The infrastructure in place, crowds up, finances looking healthy, real feel good factor about the club and well, here we are. Depending on January's results have regressed back to near Terry Butcher levels (but with fancy LED lights in place).

Not for one minute suggesting anyone will challenge for the league or even come close to splitting the OF but the gulf could (and probably should) be smaller if there was any consistency and we had other clubs outside them qualifying for european places and growing their finances along with that on a regular basis.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Hibs hearts and aberdeen have a huge financial superiority over the rest of the league (non old firm) but those other teams regularly beat that 3 and regularly get in top 6. No one says that money doesnt make a difference but no team has really pulled away over an extended period. How many thought hearts would pull away from us after 2012? A few years later they were relegated and we won the scottish. The extra money at this level doesnt seem to make that much difference.

You say that but Hearts have finished in the top four 6 times, finishing third or higher 5 times in the last 18 seasons (I’m using 18 seasons as that’s what TransferMarket website seems to only want to show me).

Aberdeen have managed top four 12 times with third or higher 6 times.

By comparison Motherwell (who I think are the most ‘succesful smaller club’ in recent years have managed it 5 times with all of those being third or higher.

We’ve managed top four 4 times with third place 2 times.

Whilst it doesn’t guarantee you top 4 in the same way it guarantees the OF top 2, the money definitely matters as the two that have done it most are the two with the most outside the OF. It probably feels like it doesn’t make much difference for us because we’ve woefully underperformed.

[DIXIHIBS]

You say that but Hearts have finished in the top four 6 times, finishing third or higher 5 times in the last 18 seasons (I’m using 18 seasons as that’s what TransferMarket website seems to only want to show me).

Aberdeen have managed top four 12 times with third or higher 6 times.

By comparison Motherwell (who I think are the most ‘succesful smaller club’ in recent years have managed it 5 times with all of those being third or higher.

We’ve managed top four 4 times with third place 2 times.

Whilst it doesn’t guarantee you top 4 in the same way it guarantees the OF top 2, the money definitely matters as the two that have done it most are the two with the most outside the OF. It probably feels like it doesn’t make much difference for us because we’ve woefully underperformed.

So hearts with easily the 3rd highest budget have failed to get top 4 in 12 out of 18 seasons? That kind of backs up what im saying. We have underperformed the most out of the 3 clubs. Of course money helps but some people seem to think hearts will ride off into the sunset...i dont believe that will happen. Historically no team has established themselves as third best over an extended period.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Given how little chance any side has to break the duopoly I think it extraordinary how strong the support base of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and some of the smaller towns actually is.

That said while for 40 years its always been a two hose race the gap is now widening to an extent where it is becoming really boring and UI suspect all the challengers will gradually see interest decline outside games that really matter like the Derby.

The tragedy is the league would be exciting and really competitive without Celtic and Rangers with perhaps 6-8 sides genuinely capable of success including the likes of Motherwell and St Mirren.

I can't see it happening but I genuinely think the Scottish League would be much better off if both Celtic and Rangers could be found a new home down south or in some European league. If that can't happen I would possibly favour going up the pyramid in England. In time we would be in either the Championship or occasionally better. Hibs are bigger than Burnley, Brentford or Bournemouth to name but three . Leeds Utd or Sheffield Wednesday v Hibs has a better ring around it than playing Ross County.

None of that will happen but if I was Ron Gordon, or even the CEO's of our main rivals, I would be starting discussions in private as the current structure dooms their ownership to long term disappointment. They must be aware.

Right. First things first, I don't think it's ever going to happen, but just to daydream about it for a second here's my take.

To begin with you would have to take the tough decision that what you are about to do would end Scottish domestic professional football overnight, chucking the likes of Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Ross County and Dunfermline under the bus, because what you would be about to do is for the owners of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and a combined Dundee / Dundee United club ( it would have to be ) to get together and submit a joint application to join the English pyramid system.

The public statement explaining the thinking behind this would specifically state that there is no immediate idea that one day any of these 4 clubs would be in the EPL challenging for the top 4, while at the same time citing the likes of AFC Bournemouth and Brentford as examples of the fact that we do not consider such an idea to be utterly impossible in the fullness of time ... we would have the same dreams and ambitions as the likes of Bristol City or Blackburn Rovers and just as importantly a market where we can attract far bigger finance than we currently do in order to eventually become competitive.

We would also state that the idea isn't simply to get away from a league we can never win utterly dominated by two clubs. The basic and fundamental point to it would be that in order to maintain the interest of our supporters, an interest we fear for in our current situation, we can as part of the English system provide them with a new challenge and variety of opposition totally unavailable in Scotland and point to the fact that many clubs already playing in England maintain a large and loyal fanbase because for all it's faults the variety of teams to play against in the 5 national leagues keeps interest high. This after all is a system where the ambition of the majority of clubs isn't to win things, but simply to reach the nirvana of the top league.

A successful application along these lines is about as likely as Hibs winning the champions league in the next 100 years in my opinion. But there is a part of me that can't help thinking it would be worth doing if for no other reason than to simply highlight just how frustrated clubs and fans are becoming with the current situation.

[Glory Lurker]

So hearts with easily the 3rd highest budget have failed to get top 4 in 12 out of 18 seasons? That kind of backs up what im saying. We have underperformed the most out of the 3 clubs. Of course money helps but some people seem to think hearts will ride off into the sunset...i dont believe that will happen. Historically no team has established themselves as third best over an extended period.

It's a mistake to use history as a guide to where hearts are going. They are in an unprecedented financial position and will definitely pull away. We missed the bus completely when HSL wasn't promoted the way it should have been.

[hibstag]

FFS now Aberdeen are Barcelona. They had zero corners, zero shots on target and Zero shots on goal at all but aye they didn't half give celtic a game.

Aye people saying this was ‘a performance’ against Celtic’ would be going to tonto if these were our stats. We stood off Celtic as much as Aberdeen did the big difference is Celtic took the chances this time , deflected cross fell to the free man, a long range shot from space created by a slip from Cadden near half way, penalty, striker doing the job he’s paid for, they also missed a few, Aberdeen were playing five on the 18 yard line and 5 on the6 yard line at times v Celtic with macgregor picking up the clearances at will, I agree it nearby worked for a point but it was a hard watch

[NAE NOOKIE]

Subsequent to my previous incoherent rant I have another idea I've mooted before .... an idea that was shot down in flames at the time as I recall :greengrin

In the MLS they have something called 'the supporters shield' ... because they have a playoff system to determine the MLS champion the shield is awarded by the MLS fans to the team with the best points record over the regular season even if they do not succeed in the playoffs. Defacto league winners by points as it were, and awarded by the fans ... not the league, not the clubs, but the fans.

I think we are at a stage where we all agree that the chances of any club outwith the Glasgow Mafia winning the league are now so far in the rear view mirror it's more or less unthinkable. In view of that we ( the fans ) have an opportunity to make our own statement. Why do the supporters clubs of all of the non ugly teams in, or with ambition to be in, the premiership get together and create a 'supporter's cup' and a flag to go with it for good measure, to be awarded by the fans to the highest finishing non OF club.

If we cant get rid of the Ugly sisters and the massive financial gulf they have created ... a gulf lest we forget that also enables them to steal support from every club in Scotland, as well as monopolise the league ... then why don't we, the fans, do something that sidelines them. Folk might say their fans will laugh at us and deride such a move, but believe me, we have a moral high ground here that no amount of mockery can deny the massively uneven playing field that exists in Scottish football.

If we can't get rid of them and if we can't compete with them because of the massive financial gulf that exists, then why don't we create a league within a league .... one that doesn't need the permission of the SFA, SPFL or even the clubs themselves ... something we create and can be proud of our club winning and **** what anybody else thinks !!!

Hell, if we play it right we could even get it a sponsor to ante up some prize money.

[superfurryhibby]

It's a mistake to use history as a guide to where hearts are going. They are in an unprecedented financial position and will definitely pull away. We missed the bus completely when HSL wasn't promoted the way it should have been.

Hearts have been spending significantly more each season than Hibs since the beginning of the Mercer era, 40 years ago.

I don’t think the current financial differences are particularly without precedent.

They have three Scottish Cups, two relegation and one administration to show for their expenditure in that time. We have two League Cups, two relegations and one administration.

Sorry Oracle, I think you’re swallowing too much of the hype

[DIXIHIBS]

Hearts have been spending significantly more each season than Hibs since the beginning of the Mercer era, 40 years ago.

I don’t think the current financial differences are particularly without precedent.

They have three Scottish Cups, two relegation and one administration to show for their expenditure in that time. We have two League Cups, two relegations and one administration.

Sorry Oracle, I think you’re swallowing too much of the hype

Hibs 2 league cups.....have you forgotten anything?

[Glory Lurker]

Hearts have been spending significantly more each season than Hibs since the beginning of the Mercer era, 40 years ago.

I don’t think the current financial differences are particularly without precedent.

They have three Scottish Cups, two relegation and one administration to show for their expenditure in that time. We have two League Cups, two relegations and one administration.

Sorry Oracle, I think you’re swallowing too much of the hype

You're making the mistake of looking back. Mercer accrued debt and every model up to administration did the same. Now they don't. Their fans, unlike ours, are chucking money at the club and to add to that they have spawnily got a billionaire chucking funny money in.

They have a future-foreseeable income stream to that is to be envied.

Too many of our support ducked HSL at the time because it was easier to have a pop at STF than put their hand in their pocket (no idea of your view at the time).

[Since452]

Livingston, Aberdeen, Ross County, Dundee Utd and Hearts have all given them a damn sight harder game in the last couple of months than we have.

Take out the first 15/20 minutes from last night and it was yet another spineless show from the cowards masquerading as a football team.

Folk cracking one off over a Celtic side that was given the freedom of ER to waltz around unchallenged and barely out of 1st gear for 70 minutes. They weren't anything special last night, an ability to apply the basic requirements of football is all that's needed to roll Hibs over right now.

On another note, our record at ER for years now is atrocious. We really need to be making the place difficult to come to, a place teams don't enjoy visiting. Sadly, it's anything but that.

Aberdeen? Parked the bus for 90 minutes and we're absolutely ridiculed for it in the media and by their own fans. At least we had a go. Got pumped but had a go. Teams are trying to find different ways to stop this Celtic team and none are working. Its ignorance to say this isn't a very good Celtic team. 12 wins in a row is it? Glad we didn't choose the Aberdeen way. That was spineless.

[Stuart93]

Aberdeen? Parked the bus for 90 minutes and we're absolutely ridiculed for it in the media and by their own fans. At least we had a go. Got pumped but had a go. Teams are trying to find different ways to stop this Celtic team and none are working. Its ignorance to say this isn't a very good Celtic team. 12 wins in a row is it? Glad we didn't choose the Aberdeen way. That was spineless.

Okay maybe not Aberdeen, what about the rest of the teams you ignored there?

We showed them far too much respect and it doesn’t help when your managers wanking himself off about them in the media. Completely ****ing weird.

[Unseen work]

On Celtic and the gulf in quality, what really struck me on Wednesday was how well they do the basics.

They never had players trying mazy runs every time they got the ball or anything like that.

Played with an intensity, players constantly moving for the ball and running beyond their team mates, moving into space and changing angles, playing the ball accurately to feet and sharply.

Stuff that, in theory, every team should be able to do.

I’d love to see our team move so much off the ball and offer the amount they do, the only one that does this consistently imo is Campbell, although from glimpses I think McKirdy would offer this too

The other huge difference is attitude, not once did Celtic get frustrated at each other if they never got the ball, they simply made another run to try and get on it again.

[B.H.F.C]

On Celtic and the gulf in quality, what really struck me on Wednesday was how well they do the basics.

They never had players trying mazy runs every time they got the ball or anything like that.

Played with an intensity, players constantly moving for the ball and running beyond their team mates, moving into space and changing angles, playing the ball accurately to feet and sharply.

Stuff that, in theory, every team should be able to do.

I’d love to see our team move so much off the ball and offer the amount they do, the only one that does this consistently imo is Campbell, although from glimpses I think McKirdy would offer this too

The other huge difference is attitude, not once did Celtic get frustrated at each other if they never got the ball, they simply made another run to try and get on it again.

They’ve got a team of players who will sprint forward when they have the ball then sprint back when they lose it. The most basic thing you can do in football and not something that should cost a fortune. Just need some players with a bit of willingness to do it.

[matty_f]

On Celtic and the gulf in quality, what really struck me on Wednesday was how well they do the basics.

They never had players trying mazy runs every time they got the ball or anything like that.

Played with an intensity, players constantly moving for the ball and running beyond their team mates, moving into space and changing angles, playing the ball accurately to feet and sharply.

Stuff that, in theory, every team should be able to do.

I’d love to see our team move so much off the ball and offer the amount they do, the only one that does this consistently imo is Campbell, although from glimpses I think McKirdy would offer this too

The other huge difference is attitude, not once did Celtic get frustrated at each other if they never got the ball, they simply made another run to try and get on it again.

Totally agree with this. For all we didn't do basics, Celtic excelled at them, their movement was unbelievable, on the go for the full 90 minutes both attacking and defending.

That stuff is coachable, I'd love to see Hibs work that hard.

[Steven79]

Aberdeen? Parked the bus for 90 minutes and we're absolutely ridiculed for it in the media and by their own fans. At least we had a go. Got pumped but had a go. Teams are trying to find different ways to stop this Celtic team and none are working. Its ignorance to say this isn't a very good Celtic team. 12 wins in a row is it? Glad we didn't choose the Aberdeen way. That was spineless.We were spineless just in a different way...

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

We were spineless just in a different way...

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:agree: Teams have shown recently, if you defend well and work hard you can stop them from skelping your erse and putting you to bed early.

We were under the duvet as soon as the 2nd went in, and it should have been earlier.

There are ways to lose games as well as win them, we lost that game because we are spineless from boardroom to outside left.

[Since452]

Okay maybe not Aberdeen, what about the rest of the teams you ignored there?

We showed them far too much respect and it doesn’t help when your managers wanking himself off about them in the media. Completely ****ing weird.

The other teams I ignored lost to them as well. Didn't analyse their performances because I couldn't really care less. We just beat another team around us in the league 4-0. Celtic are on another level to every other team in this league.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Aberdeen? Parked the bus for 90 minutes and we're absolutely ridiculed for it in the media and by their own fans. At least we had a go. Got pumped but had a go. Teams are trying to find different ways to stop this Celtic team and none are working. Its ignorance to say this isn't a very good Celtic team. 12 wins in a row is it? Glad we didn't choose the Aberdeen way. That was spineless.

Nobody is saying they’re not a very good celtic team.

They didn’t have to perform like one the other night though and yet they still ****ed us.

[Tyler Durden]

Nobody is saying they’re not a very good celtic team.

They didn’t have to perform like one the other night though and yet they still ****ed us.

Celtic didn’t have to perform like a very good team? Hahaha

[Stubbsy90+2]

Celtic didn’t have to perform like a very good team? Hahaha

They absolutely strolled it. They didn’t have to get out of second gear.

[Brightside]

They absolutely strolled it. They didn’t have to get out of second gear.

Agreed. We were very poor and allowed them to play with freedom.

[Since452]

They absolutely strolled it. They didn’t have to get out of second gear.

They raised their game because we were giving them a good one. They went up a gear after the first 15/20 mins as they had to. We could and probably should have been a goal or two up before they scored. We ended up chasing shadows.

[Keith_M]

We need to start a new Gulf War


🙂

[Carheenlea]

Aberdeen? Parked the bus for 90 minutes and we're absolutely ridiculed for it in the media and by their own fans. At least we had a go. Got pumped but had a go. Teams are trying to find different ways to stop this Celtic team and none are working. Its ignorance to say this isn't a very good Celtic team. 12 wins in a row is it? Glad we didn't choose the Aberdeen way. That was spineless.

Inclined to agree with this.

If a Hibs team was ever to be set up like Aberdeen to stifle Celtic then I’d like to think the club would warn us in advance so we didn’t need to go and spare our embarrassment.