Stability

[Hibs4185]

I wrote a few comments saying LD had been the best thing to happen to the club before she left.

I could write a few examples of what she said that had happened to the club since she took over and which brought stability.

I don’t think LJ is a bad manager and I’m generally optimistic of the club. Commercially we are fine and RG and BK are doing better than I could ever envisage.

We need stability on the football side. I noticed Goerhe Craig hasn’t got a new job and whilst I don’t advocate going back, it wouldn’t be the worst idea for not a lot of money.

We need a new DOF or similar.

[DH1875]

LJ said we need another 3 to 4 transfer windows. Yeah like that's gonna happen.

[Basildon Hibs]

LJ said we need another 3 to 4 transfer windows. Yeah like that's gonna happen.

He'll be lucky to get the next one ...😃😉

[madhatter]

He'll be lucky to get the next one ...����

He deserves to. Doesn't really matter what manager we get in at the moment. We need to be much stronger on our recruitment and until that happens we could honestly have Klopp or Pep in charge and we'd still lose. Can't work miracles with garbage. Look at how many signings Celtic have made since Ange took over. They've been getting them right more than not but look at how many they've brought in that clearly match the manager's philosophy.

Hibs need to get a philosophy and sign players that match it. Style of play is critical when recruiting, Hibs seem to have forgotten that. Terrible mistake to make.

[GreenCastle]

LJ’s been here since 19th May. Surely he would have known what was needed before he applied for the job at Hibs?

He’s already not fixed central midfield in 1st window.

How many of his players played tonight?

Hibs go by stats when recruiting. We need to look at character and leadership also as the current group are so soft especially when losing.

[madhatter]

LJ’s been here since 19th May. Surely he would have known what was needed before he applied for the job at Hibs?

He’s already not fixed central midfield in 1st window.

How many of his players played tonight?

No idea - recruitment side of the club is a big mystery. Seems it is a committee but no idea how that functions. Who are our scouts or do we just rely on agents and contacts now? Then watch videos...honestly have no idea how a committee would work for this especially as I don't think we really have much of a scouting department.

[Silky]

He'll be lucky to get the next one ...😃😉

I think he said something like that as well when he first came in. One of biggest problems is that every manager we seem to hire "will be lucky to get the next one". With every new management team comes a transition. One, or even two windows doesn't really cut it. Short termism is not always the answer.

[Pretty Boy]

LJ said we need another 3 to 4 transfer windows. Yeah like that's gonna happen.

Any manager who thinks they are going to get 3 or 4 transfer windows to make a team competitive in Scotland should just be sacked on the spot.

It shows a total lack of understanding of the league and no grasp of reality. You'll get a couple and if you are stagnating or regressing you'll be gone unless you have substantial credit in the bank. That's across the league, not just Hibs.

[madhatter]

Any manager who thinks they are going to get 3 or 4 transfer windows to make a team competitive in Scotland should just be sacked on the spot.

It shows a total lack of understanding of the league and no grasp of reality. You'll get a couple and if you are stagnating or regressing you'll be gone unless you have substantial credit in the bank. That's across the league, not just Hibs.

I suppose in recent times that is perhaps why no team has really managed to properly close the gap on Celtic and Rangers. Unfortunately, you only build on stability. McInnes had his time at Aberdeen and molded a team he wanted. I hated his Aberdeen teams as it usually had 4 massive CBs that pushed us about and then hard working midfielders that just kicked us off the park. It worked for them though, I guess to a point.

We will need to get a structure in place to be successful. Celtic have been working on that for years and it's starting to come really good. People keep talking about spending power and budget difference. Yes, it helps but it also helps if you don't piss it all away. They've routinely hit the correct players at the right time and sold for profit and replaced with suitable players. Us? Nothing like that, we've got a succession plan for Porteous supposedly, this should be a laugh...

[Pretty Boy]

I suppose in recent times that is perhaps why no team has really managed to properly close the gap on Celtic and Rangers. Unfortunately, you only build on stability. McInnes had his time at Aberdeen and molded a team he wanted. I hated his Aberdeen teams as it usually had 4 massive CBs that pushed us about and then hard working midfielders that just kicked us off the park. It worked for them though, I guess to a point.

We will need to get a structure in place to be successful. Celtic have been working on that for years and it's starting to come really good. People keep talking about spending power and budget difference. Yes, it helps but it also helps if you don't piss it all away. They've routinely hit the correct players at the right time and sold for profit and replaced with suitable players. Us? Nothing like that, we've got a succession plan for Porteous supposedly, this should be a laugh...

McIness got years at Aberdeen because he transformed a team in 1 or 2 windows from one that finished 9th to 3rd and a LC win. He then consistently maintained that in the league for years.

Had he said 'I need 3 or 4 windows' and limped along in 7th or 8th in his 1st season he would have been gone, just as Johnson will.

[Stubbsy90+2]

McIness got years at Aberdeen because he transformed a team in 1 or 2 windows from one that finished 9th to 3rd and a LC win. He then consistently maintained that in the league for years.

Had he said 'I need 3 or 4 windows' and limped along in 7th or 8th in his 1st season he would have been gone, just as Johnson will.

:agree:

[GreenCastle]

Any manager who thinks they are going to get 3 or 4 transfer windows to make a team competitive in Scotland should just be sacked on the spot.

It shows a total lack of understanding of the league and no grasp of reality. You'll get a couple and if you are stagnating or regressing you'll be gone unless you have substantial credit in the bank. That's across the league, not just Hibs.

This is true.

Neilson still in a job as Hearts have mostly recruited in areas that are needed.

Hibs sign several attackers and don’t play them. Sign a CDM and then we play Porto in midfield.

A lot of it doesn’t make sense and we wonder why we struggle.

[madhatter]

McIness got years at Aberdeen because he transformed a team in 1 or 2 windows from one that finished 9th to 3rd and a LC win. He then consistently maintained that in the league for years.

Had he said 'I need 3 or 4 windows' and limped along in 7th or 8th in his 1st season he would have been gone, just as Johnson will.

I may be wrong but I don't think McInnes walked into such a bad squad. This isn't to save Johnson. I am personally not too bothered who manages Hibs at the moment as I genuinely think virtually all will fail with the current recruitment, it is merely stating that the balance of our squad is scandalous. We're still calling on players that should be backups. We are still relying on players that should have been cleared out and improvements brought in for.

Johnson or someone needs to backed - if Johnson doesn't recognise the need to strengthen the defence and midfield then he should go. A non-football person would be able to notice our glaring frailties after watching a couple of matches, that's how obvious it is.

Either way, if our recruitment doesn't improve Johnson will be sacked, we'll move onto our next manager and we'll repeat over and over.

[WhileTheChief..]

The strongest reason for keeping LJ is that we shouldn’t change managers so often. In fact, it’s the only reason being offered up. Not because he’s good at his job or getting results or anything mind.

Total mental way to look at things.

We’re going to stick with someone who can’t get our team to win games purely because we don’t want change?

Get him out now and give someone else a shot. Whoever it is, literally can’t do any worse than LJ.

[dp00]

You can look at a few teams recently which are seeing result having stuck by the manager and his playing style which I also think shows the players they either need to get on board or it’s them who are shipped out

Arsenal - They were near the bottom a few years ago

St Johnstone - stuck by Davidson and are back to a decent level they expect to be

I’m sure there are loads , I’m not convinced by LJ however the answer can’t be to keep sacking managers. The message that sends out especially to the players is if you hold out long enough the manager will be gone before you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrSmith]

Apart from our fans, I cannot find anything positive nor that I like about Hibs right now! This whole episode is embarrassing if not tragic.

[Alfred E Newman]

I may be wrong but I don't think McInnes walked into such a bad squad. This isn't to save Johnson. I am personally not too bothered who manages Hibs at the moment as I genuinely think virtually all will fail with the current recruitment, it is merely stating that the balance of our squad is scandalous. We're still calling on players that should be backups. We are still relying on players that should have been cleared out and improvements brought in for.

Johnson or someone needs to backed - if Johnson doesn't recognise the need to strengthen the defence and midfield then he should go. A non-football person would be able to notice our glaring frailties after watching a couple of matches, that's how obvious it is.

Either way, if our recruitment doesn't improve Johnson will be sacked, we'll move onto our next manager and we'll repeat over and over.

In my opinion the squad is worse now than when Johnson took over. That was arguably our strongest team last night and 9 of the team were there when he came.

[GreenCastle]

You can look at a few teams recently which are seeing result having stuck by the manager and his playing style which I also think shows the players they either need to get on board or it’s them who are shipped out

Arsenal - They were near the bottom a few years ago

St Johnstone - stuck by Davidson and are back to a decent level they expect to be

I’m sure there are loads , I’m not convinced by LJ however the answer can’t be to keep sacking managers. The message that sends out especially to the players is if you hold out long enough the manager will be gone before you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There aren’t loads.

Football management you need credit in the bank - LJ has very little / if any.

If he loses the derby he probably should go. If he loses both derbies 100% he should go as he has failed.

League cup - knocked out early
League - top 4 won’t happen - lucky if we get top 6 right now. Top 4 will stay same. We are fighting for 5th and 6th with Livi / St Mirren / St J.
Scottish Cup - knocked out early

Would bin him sooner rather than later as this is only going to get worse. He needs an absolute miracle of a transfer window to sort this and that rarely happens in January. My worry is the recruitment and him bring in more dross and waste more money.

Would rather have a better manager who can see we are soft and have no spine - sort that and build.

If LJ does stay the 1st signings he makes we will be able to see if he has a small chance of actually turning this around but I’m not convinced from what I’ve watched regularly.

[scoopyboy]

Our recent managers are lucky if they last half a season, this has to stop at some point or we are going to continue on a downward spiral.

If LJ was to go tomorrow we'd be lucky to get to the end of February before the next one is starting to be hounded.

No manager is going to turn us around in a few months.

[GreenCastle]

Our recent managers are lucky if they last half a season, this has to stop at some point or we are going to continue on a downward spiral.

If LJ was to go tomorrow we'd be lucky to get to the end of February before the next one is starting to be hounded.

No manager is going to turn us around in a few months.


The no manager will turn us around I just don’t agree with sorry.

At least make us hard to beat and score against.

We have tried to become prime Barcelona with some players who couldn’t even dominate part time teams earlier in the season.

Even a half competent manager would sort the spine of the team out.

A decent centre back and decent new centre midfielder should be the 1st signings. LJ failing to improve our midfield as has been said numerous times on here is on him - it’s the engine room of the team.

Fans won’t hound a manager who puts out a team that our loyal fans can get behind. Our starting teams like Johnson are so unpredictable in what they produce each game and that’s a concern. I wish the starting team was more unpredictable with quality but it’s the same players who can’t be dropped or our bench is so poor we are scared to make subs as he doesn’t trust them.

[Stubbsy90+2]

The no manager will turn us around I just don’t agree with sorry.

At least make us hard to beat and score against.

We have tried to become prime Barcelona with some players who couldn’t even dominate part time teams earlier in the season.

Even a half competent manager would sort the spine of the team out.

A decent centre back and decent new centre midfielder should be the 1st signings. LJ failing to improve our midfield as has been said numerous times on here is on him - it’s the engine room of the team.

Fans won’t hound a manager who puts out a team that our loyal fans can get behind. Our starting teams like Johnson are so unpredictable in what they produce each game and that’s a concern. I wish the starting team was more unpredictable with quality but it’s the same players who can’t be dropped or our bench is so poor we are scared to make subs as he doesn’t trust them.

The next manager won’t get to sort the midfield either. They’ll be given the same level of pish and told to work with it, much like the last few managers.

[Pretty Boy]

Our recent managers are lucky if they last half a season, this has to stop at some point or we are going to continue on a downward spiral.

If LJ was to go tomorrow we'd be lucky to get to the end of February before the next one is starting to be hounded.

No manager is going to turn us around in a few months.

I think everyone wants a manager we can get behind and allow to build something. That has to be the right manager rather than just any manager though.

Most were quite happy to get behind LJ early in the league season when performances were half decent even after the disaster that was the LC. However we can't just ignore the obvious regression we are seeing. There's the longer term regression of the last 3 years or so but even this season the level of performance has dropped to be almost unrecognisable from the first few weeks and shows little sign of going back in the right direction.

Beyond 'we can't keep sacking managers' I've not seen anyone even attempt to make a proper case for giving Johnson more time. I'm just not sure there is one to be made tbh.

[scoopyboy]

The no manager will turn us around I just don’t agree with sorry.

At least make us hard to beat and score against.

We have tried to become prime Barcelona with some players who couldn’t even dominate part time teams earlier in the season.

Even a half competent manager would sort the spine of the team out.

A decent centre back and decent new centre midfielder should be the 1st signings. LJ failing to improve our midfield as has been said numerous times on here is on him - it’s the engine room of the team.

Fans won’t hound a manager who puts out a team that our loyal fans can get behind. Our starting teams like Johnson are so unpredictable in what they produce each game and that’s a concern. I wish the starting team was more unpredictable with quality but it’s the same players who can’t be dropped or our bench is so poor we are scared to make subs as he doesn’t trust them.

A manager could turn as around I agree with but not quickly, that was my point.

Make us hard to score against sounds easy but look at what we've got to play with, a defence that isn't good enough with back up players that are probably worse. Were not bringing in many in January and ones that we do will probably be stop gaps. A midfield that offers very little protection to the defence.

It's not looking that easy.

[B.H.F.C]

A manager could turn as around I agree with but not quickly, that was my point.

Make us hard to score against sounds easy but look at what we've got to play with, a defence that isn't good enough with back up players that are probably worse. Were not bringing in many in January and ones that we do will probably be stop gaps. A midfield that offers very little protection to the defence.

It's not looking that easy.

I agree that no manager is changing things dramatically and turning us in to a top team. But I do think their are plenty out there who could instil a bit of something in to them short term. IMO, that’s all we really need just now or we’re going to find ourselves in The Championship. I don’t expect much from January so we need someone who can, somehow, get more from the current players.

My biggest concern with Johnson is that he just seems to have lost all enthusiasm. There’s a lot of reasons being trotted out as to why we keep getting beat. But I see little evidence of anything being done to fix them. I think he looks pretty lost at the moment, even during games. Back at the start of the season he had a team who kept going and he wasn’t shy in changing something if he didn’t think it was working (the double sub against Rangers after 20 minutes stands out). I look at us now and with the amount of talking he’s done lately about needing new players and so on, I wonder how the players feel about him and if some of that is reflected in their performances.

[madhatter]

I agree that no manager is changing things dramatically and turning us in to a top team. But I do think their are plenty out there who could instil a bit of something in to them short term. IMO, that’s all we really need just now or we’re going to find ourselves in The Championship. I don’t expect much from January so we need someone who can, somehow, get more from the current players.

My biggest concern with Johnson is that he just seems to have lost all enthusiasm. There’s a lot of reasons being trotted out as to why we keep getting beat. But I see little evidence of anything being done to fix them. I think he looks pretty lost at the moment, even during games. Back at the start of the season he had a team who kept going and he wasn’t shy in changing something if he didn’t think it was working (the double sub against Rangers after 20 minutes stands out). I look at us now and with the amount of talking he’s done lately about needing new players and so on, I wonder how the players feel about him and if some of that is reflected in their performances.

I'm strangely optimistic about Johnson. His routine subbing off of Hanlon and twice having a visible go at him suggests he is starting to see that Hanlon isn't up to much anymore and starting to struggle.

He likes Campbell which suggests he likes hard working midfielders that try to press which is again a good thing. I think he knows Newell won't be able to do that.

We are a far better team when we press and stay on the front foot. As soon as we become passive and sit in a mid block we get rolled over.

Couldn't care less about how the players feel about him. Hope Hanlon and Stevenson get them working hard rather than contributing to another manager being sacked.

[GreenCastle]

A manager could turn as around I agree with but not quickly, that was my point.

Make us hard to score against sounds easy but look at what we've got to play with, a defence that isn't good enough with back up players that are probably worse. Were not bringing in many in January and ones that we do will probably be stop gaps. A midfield that offers very little protection to the defence.

It's not looking that easy.

Even when LJ was hired it was obvious it wasn’t going to be a quick fix.

Quite simply though I think we are worse now than we were with Jack Ross.

Even our pre-season I actually thought against Burton and Hartlepool we looked good but then the league cup was just a disaster.

Some folk saying Livi on Xmas eve was our best performance of season?

I felt Aberdeen home we were really good but again 10 men.

What frustrates me is the staff LJ has also - massive back room staff and surely between them they should be getting us sorted.

[Hibs90]

Stability within the current structure and recruitment strategy is only going to lead to relegation.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm strangely optimistic about Johnson. His routine subbing off of Hanlon and twice having a visible go at him suggests he is starting to see that Hanlon isn't up to much anymore and starting to struggle.

He likes Campbell which suggests he likes hard working midfielders that try to press which is again a good thing. I think he knows Newell won't be able to do that.

We are a far better team when we press and stay on the front foot. As soon as we become passive and sit in a mid block we get rolled over.

Couldn't care less about how the players feel about him. Hope Hanlon and Stevenson get them working hard rather than contributing to another manager being sacked.

Think how the players feel about the manager is really important. If they stop responding to him, you’re not winning many games and he’s done. Not seeing much evidence of Hanlon and Stevenson getting the rest of them working though.

FWIW, I’m not saying the players are against him. I think the single biggest problem is that many of them are just pish. But there’s been a lot of comments lately about bad recruitment, needing this and that generally doesn’t go down well with players (as we’ve seen before).

[The Modfather]

It’s difficult to feel invested in a manager like Johnson when he’s making the same fundamental mistakes as the previous managers. We’re about to move into 2023 and we are back with Stevenson as our left back, Hanlon still playing every week and our only left footed centreback, Newell still playing every week and undroppable, while we play our best midfielder out in the right last night to “do a job”.

What has Johnson done or tried that’s much different to the previous managers? Not a lot IMO, unsurprisingly with the exact same outcomes. Although to give him credit Porteous playing in midfield, as damming as that is in itself, is bold and different but an outlier.

I can understand why no manager is going to bring the U19s through as it’s not him but the next manager that sees the fruits of doing so. For me, if Johnson is the right man I’d give him the following remit. Steady the ship, get a few more wins to stave off relegation, bring in some experienced no nonsense loan players to help achieve this. Decide who are the long term answers (Marshall, Rocky, Magennis, Boyle, Nisbet & to a degree Campbell) and start to build a team/squad containing the U19s and the likes of Melkerson & Delfierre. Then in the summer we can sign 2 or 3 ready made first team players to supplement and improve the youngsters.

I get it’s not great writing a season off, particularly given we are always only a few hypothetical wins away from the being in the mix for Europe and the riches on offer. However to break the cycle we’re in we have to take a step back and try to replicate what Mowbray did. I see a lot of parallels. I don’t think it will happen though and we’re probably as likely to continue to try and spend our way out of this cycle while actually making the situation worse.

[loanheadhibby]

Our recent managers are lucky if they last half a season, this has to stop at some point or we are going to continue on a downward spiral.

If LJ was to go tomorrow we'd be lucky to get to the end of February before the next one is starting to be hounded.

No manager is going to turn us around in a few months.

I don't disagree with the sentiment but LJ has to go. We can't just keep him as we don't want to sack another manager.

His record is worse than Jim Duffy's. We are in complete freefall. We are 2 wins in 10. You would not mind if there were a couple of draws in there but it is constant defeats and the manner of the defeats is frightening. Our players get stuck in but they have no will to win/desire when the going gets tough.

The big issue for the club is the downward spiral that LJ is currently on will ultimately lead to a relegation play off or even worse.

If we stick with LJ and ride out the storm, the likelihood is relegation/play off and giving him the chance to rebuild from the Championship. However, if we do go down or end up in play off he is going to be sacked anyway so get rid now.