Where does this experiment end?

[hibsforeurope]

What will be the outcome of the current direction (experiment) the club is taking?

It seems to be any glimmer of light is quickly snuffed out by terrible results and performances.

[Hibees1973]

Experiment.

i would use another word. Hibs are the Gordons' TOY.

They have fired almost all the senior staff at Hibs over the last couple of years and appointed their own people. Ron's son is like the spoilt daddy's boy spending cash on crap while Ron stands back and says everything is great.

Club is a mess from top to bottom with a revolving door at the front.

Will take years to clear up the mess created by the Gordon's.

[BH Hibs]

Next Tuesday probably

[LunasBoots]

Exactly why the model they are running needs changed or as far as I'm concerned they can all go, we can't continue being run as a experiment, fans turn up to watch us win/compete in big games, not be run as a bottom six club on the field

[Greencore]

When Ron sells us to a billionaire.

[blackpoolhibs]

When we are relegated.

[Gatecrasher]

I always thought it was weird when folk would say they wouldn't set foot inside ER with Petrie there I'm getting closer to understanding their mindset now. A defeat to Hearts and then what? We can't carry on like this.

[GreenCastle]

Seriously fed up with the club.

Sacking LJ won’t make us better but I think it would help.

We are a mess and the fans deserve better.

[madhatter]

Says a lot that Ron Gordon and Ben Kensell aren't in the media as much as they were a while back.

I think they may be aware their work on a senior football front is not good enough and that's been a few years now. Senior player recruitment is scandalous. Rocky looks to be the only one that is holding down a position from recent signings. That and Marshall. Rest are squad players at best.

Our recruitment policy is shocking.

Celtic haven't got that strong because they've signed duds. Almost every signing they are making is showing up well. Coached to a high level and incredibly fit. All bought into the vision and each player signed with a purpose. Our recruitment? Scattergun, neglecting weak core of the team. Buying 4-5 attacking players that we would never class as guaranteed starters.

[mca]

Probably Ends with a Office / Gym / Shops / Housing development of some kind.. roughly 20 - 30 years from now

[The Captain....]

**** knows but it's depressing as ****.

Hibs are a chore these days and have been for too long.

***** players, ***** manager, ***** recruitment.

No sign of it ending anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

[truehibernian]

When Ron sells us to a billionaire.

Sooner fans wake up to the fact he’s awful for this club of ours the better 👍

[tamig]

What will be the outcome of the current direction (experiment) the club is taking?

It seems to be any glimmer of light is quickly snuffed into it by terrible results and performances.

What experiment? We were beaten by a team who are on a different level to every other team in this league tonight. £8m players coming off the bench. Get real.

[B.H.F.C]

What experiment? We were beaten by a team who are on a different level to every other team in this league tonight. £8m players coming off the bench. Get real.

It’s not about tonight in isolation though, is it?

We are in a complete mess on the park with a manager who looks like he has little idea of how to fix it.

[NC1875]

When we’re relegated at the end of the season. Then we can give Hanlon and Stevenson new contracts for the 3 years we’ll be in the championship

[hibsforeurope]

What experiment? We were beaten by a team who are on a different level to every other team in this league tonight. £8m players coming off the bench. Get real.

We have also been beaten in competitive games by Falkirk, Morton, Ross county, Kilmarnock, Livingston who don’t have 2 pennies to rub together. This isn’t just on tonight game.

[Greencore]

Sooner fans wake up to the fact he’s awful for this club of ours the better 👍

I certainly have, backed him from the start, but the appointment of his son = strange, no DOF = worrying, silence very worried. We need to move forward I don't see his team doing it. We are moving backwards. The club stinks

[Jones28]

What are the club supposed to do with an experimental transfer policy when the transfer window is shut?

[IberianHibernian]

What will be the outcome of the current direction (experiment) the club is taking?

It seems to be any glimmer of light is quickly snuffed into it by terrible results and performances.Is it not games like tonight`s which have made club think a different approach has to be taken if we`re ever to improve significantly in next 5 or so years and actually challenge at the top of the league ? Hibs and all other non OF teams don`t have cash to outbid third tier English clubs let alone sign players who`ll make a real impact in our league hence threads here about McKirdy and other signings who aren`t making an impact and veterans like Hanlon who are probably past their best but still better than what we can afford as alternatives . Anyway is experiment really happening ? We spent a lot on getting Boyle back instead of signing more promising youngsters , aren`t playing English clubs at devt team level and are back to relying on Lewis , Hanlon etc .

[Steve20]

What experiment? We were beaten by a team who are on a different level to every other team in this league tonight. £8m players coming off the bench. Get real.

Head out the sand please. We were disgraceful. And it’s nothing to do with the money Celtic spend how bad we’ve been this season. Look where we are in the league.

The club under Ron Gordon is an absolute shambles on the pitch. The people he has put in running the football side are clueless and the recruitment of players is a disgrace. They’re mostly awful and there’s no thought into where they’d fit in. I mean, we brought in about 16 players in the summer and still reduced to playing garbage like Newell in midfield and moving Porteous to midfield too. It’s no way to run a football side.

But eventually Lee Johnson, who I don’t particularly rate, will take the blame for other’s incompetence and another manager will come in to a job that you’re not going to be able to do properly with the clowns above making dud signings.

[B.H.F.C]

What are the club supposed to do with an experimental transfer policy when the transfer window is shut?

It’s not just about buying players for me. They need to restructure / recruit some proper competent people in to the senior roles at the club. If we don’t get that big right, the recruitment of players will continue to be an issue IMO.

[Jones28]

It’s not just about buying players for me. They need to restructure / recruit some proper competent people in to the senior roles at the club. If we don’t get that big right, the recruitment of players will continue to be an issue IMO.

Well they still need and open transfer window to do that.

[B.H.F.C]

Is it not games like tonight`s which have made club think a different approach has to be taken if we`re ever to improve significantly in next 5 or so years and actually challenge at the top of the league ? Hibs and all other non OF teams don`t have cash to outbid third tier English clubs let alone sign players who`ll make a real impact in our league hence threads here about McKirdy and other signings who aren`t making an impact and veterans like Hanlon who are probably past their best but still better than what we can afford as alternatives . Anyway is experiment really happening ? We spent a lot on getting Boyle back instead of signing more promising youngsters , aren`t playing English clubs at devt team level and are back to relying on Lewis , Hanlon etc .

Boyle contributed more than all the ‘promising youngsters’ put together. And that was just in his dozen or so games this season. Instead of stocking up on loads of potential and spreading the money so thin, it would be much better spent on quality that can actually impact the team even in lesser numbers.

[hibsforeurope]

Well they still need and open transfer window to do that.

We could have admitted the structure was wrong and addressed that in time for the window opening. We’ve not, which suggests the powers that be think there’s no issue.

[B.H.F.C]

Well they still need and open transfer window to do that.

I think you’re totally missing my point. We don’t need the transfer window to be open to restructure / replace the non playing people who are in charge of the football side. Whilst those people remain, the same things are going to keep happening.

[Paul1642]

We are going through a bad patch. It’s happened countless of times in my years of watching Hibs and will undoubtedly happen countless more times in my lifetime.

Our level is simply a top 6 SPL club who occasionally enjoy a little bit of success and occasionally suffer entirely unpleasant spells of finishing lower.

Ultimately we are only two points behind 4th and one derby win (not holding my breath) away from being 2 points behind 3rd, which is our ultimate goal.

We have a decent squad, a decent manager, a decent run of fixtures after the derby and a decent finances going into the transfer window.

Other than Boyles injury things aren’t so bad and I’m not going to look too deeply into a defeat form an excellent Celtic team. Look throughout all of Europe’s leagues (and the rest of the world for that matter) and it’s the same story. Teams with big budget beat teams with smaller budgets. Unlike the 80s and prior the pecking order isn’t going to change dramatically.

[Vault Boy]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.

[Stubbsy90+2]

When we are relegated.

Yup. That’s exactly where we’re headed.

[GreenGray]

I’m just going to echo much of the above to be honest. Beginning to become utterly Scunnered, although I think that’s a mix of the club, the officiating in this country, VAR and the ever growing gap with the old firm.

Just a few years back it felt like teams outwith the old firm had a chance of winning cups, I hope I’m proven wrong but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

We desperately need an experienced director of football to sort out the utter mess we find ourselves in.


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[hibsforeurope]

Yup. That’s exactly where we’re headed.

Only plus point is Ron may well jump ship when we’re relegated. He likes cash, he won’t make any of that in the championship.

[Paul1642]

Boyle contributed more than all the ‘promising youngsters’ put together. And that was just in his dozen or so games this season. Instead of stocking up on loads of potential and spreading the money so thin, it would be much better spent on quality that can actually impact the team even in lesser numbers.

The only way we will progress as a club long term is a mixture of both which I think we are attempting, all be it without great success right now.

The only way we finance buying proven quality players is by making money from selling players we bought as prospects for profit.

The only way we ever get to see a proper quality player at Hibs again is by signing someone unproven with potential and getting a bit of luck. We simply can’t afford the millions of pounds that a proven top player would cost us.

Players like Boyle generally aren’t within our budget. We only got him the first time because he was an average Dundee player.

We only got him back because of his Hibs connection and things not working out for him in Saudi. Had he gone to the championship we would never have seen him back.

Now he’s out for the season and the decision to spend a huge chunk of our budget on one good player isn’t looking so smart short term.

[Jones28]

Only plus point is Ron may well jump ship when we’re relegated. He likes cash, he won’t make any of that in the championship.

And sell to who?

[GreenCastle]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.

I don’t think you are alone sadly.

The other bad thing happening right now is he’s splitting the fan base and messageboards like this turn into nasty places as fans argue.

We all just want a club we can all get behind and have some consistency with players and performances.

[easty]

I certainly have, backed him from the start, but the appointment of his son = strange, no DOF = worrying, silence very worried. We need to move forward I don't see his team doing it. We are moving backwards. The club stinks

All hinges on poor recruitment.

If we could just go out and find players who are ready to come in and make a difference, in the positions we’ve been crying out for, then we’d be in a far better position. It’s not rocket science.

We desperately needed to improve the centre of the park, we have done for ages. What we got was one young laddie, Kenneh, with nae first team experience.

We need to improve the defence…we bring in one young laddie, McLelland, with nae first team experience.

Stop wasting money filling the squad with “punts”. Get the first team right, and then look to the future. Get us players who’ll play, straight away, and supplement that with developmental squad players. Once we can get that part right, then piss about with the next generation of player.

Get us European football, and cup finals, and a first team that supporters actually want to come and watch. That’s got to be the goal. There’s nae point buying curtains when you’ve no even built the walls and got any windows yet!

[IberianHibernian]

Boyle contributed more than all the ‘promising youngsters’ put together. And that was just in his dozen or so games this season. Instead of stocking up on loads of potential and spreading the money so thin, it would be much better spent on quality that can actually impact the team even in lesser numbers.Don`t think many of the promising youngsters we`d be hoping to sign have been identified let alone signed yet . Inevitable given ages we`re talking about . If they have been signed , then would expect to see the best of them in 2 or 3 years`time . Meanwhile , up to older players to do their part . As for Boyle , rightly or wrongly , club took decision to resign him and delay or limit investment in younger players . I understand why they took that decision even though his injury means we`re not benefitting in short term from Boyle`s ability and have much less money to invest on future players .

[hibsforeurope]

And sell to who?

At this moment anyone with half a clue how to run a football club

[chookyembra]

We very rarely beat Celtic, so tonight’s result wasn’t a surprise.
I’m not a fan of LJ but who else is out there that we can realistically get in as manager?
If he goes who do we get?
Nothing will change here whilst Ron and his family are in charge and are playing FM it’s them that need to go.

[tamig]

It’s not about tonight in isolation though, is it?

We are in a complete mess on the park with a manager who looks like he has little idea of how to fix it.

I think he has an idea of how to fix in. January is a huge window for him - if the board are with him.

[heid the baw]

Recruitment should be about buying players who are better than the one currently occupying that position. Obviously when you sell a McGinn, Doig ect, it's not going to be that easy, but in the case of recent signings we seem to go for players who are not just poorer, but poorer by a long way.
Teams like Ross County, Livi, St Johnston maintain a standard on a fraction of the budget. If these clubs with their simple recruitment strategies had the cash that Hibs have at their disposal, they would be entertaining to watch and hard to beat.
Our recruitment is utterly shambolic, a failed experiment carried out by people with no knowledge of how to put together a strong squad

[lyonhibs]

Well they still need and open transfer window to do that.

Errrrr no they don't. Transfer windows only apply to players, not management/office staff.

[tamig]

Only plus point is Ron may well jump ship when we’re relegated. He likes cash, he won’t make any of that in the championship.

Are you implying he doesn’t spend? Or just that the same levels if income won’t be there? Nobody can accuse RG of not spending. Poor comment from you if that’s what you meant.

[GreenCastle]

All hinges on poor recruitment.

If we could just go out and find players who are ready to come in and make a difference, in the positions we’ve been crying out for, then we’d be in a far better position. It’s not rocket science.

We desperately needed to improve the centre of the park, we have done for ages. What we got was one young laddie, Kenneh, with nae first team experience.

We need to improve the defence…we bring in one young laddie, McLelland, with nae first team experience.

Stop wasting money filling the squad with “punts”. Get the first team right, and then look to the future. Get us players who’ll play, straight away, and supplement that with developmental squad players. Once we can get that part right, then piss about with the next generation of player.

Get us European football, and cup finals, and a first team that supporters actually want to come and watch. That’s got to be the goal. There’s nae point buying curtains when you’ve no even built the walls and got any windows yet!

Good post.

[B.H.F.C]

The only way we will progress as a club long term is a mixture of both which I think we are attempting, all be it without great success right now.

The only way we finance buying proven quality players is by making money from selling players we bought as prospects for profit.

The only way we ever get to see a proper quality player at Hibs again is by signing someone unproven with potential and getting a bit of luck. We simply can’t afford the millions of pounds that a proven top player would cost us.

Players like Boyle generally aren’t within our budget. We only got him the first time because he was an average Dundee player.

We only got him back because of his Hibs connection and things not working out for him in Saudi. Had he gone to the championship we would never have seen him back.

Now he’s out for the season and the decision to spend a huge chunk of our budget on one good player isn’t looking so smart short term.

I agree there is a balance to be struck. But I also read about the long term often and that is where I think things fall down. Football, especially at our level, isn’t and won’t ever be long term. If you look at the six months LJ has had in charge it’s been pretty disastrous and he’s going to be very lucky to get to this window (I think might just about scrape through to it).

If you go back 18 months we were in a position of strength, that’s when the first signs of this strategy started coming through. We spent six figure transfer fees on two young players who have hardly kicked a ball for us and spent most of their time out on loan. We didn’t need long term thinking at that point, we needed some tweaks to the squad. We didn’t do it and missed out on millions on offer for playing in Europe. That, for me, would have been a far more sensible way to go about things than signing the volume of players we have since (many of who have made no impact).

[B.H.F.C]

Don`t think many of the promising youngsters we`d be hoping to sign have been identified let alone signed yet . Inevitable given ages we`re talking about . If they have been signed , then would expect to see the best of them in 2 or 3 years`time . Meanwhile , up to older players to do their part . As for Boyle , rightly or wrongly , club took decision to resign him and delay or limit investment in younger players . I understand why they took that decision even though his injury means we`re not benefitting in short term from Boyle`s ability and have much less money to invest on future players .

Two or three years time is no good when you’re asking people to shell out on season tickets in the present. Especially with the risk of dropping a division.

[sean]

I agree there is a balance to be struck. But I also read about the long term often and that is where I think things fall down. Football, especially at our level, isn’t and won’t ever be long term. If you look at the six months LJ has had in charge it’s been pretty disastrous and he’s going to be very lucky to get to this window (I think might just about scrape through to it).

If you go back 18 months we were in a position of strength, that’s when the first signs of this strategy started coming through. We spent six figure transfer fees on two young players who have hardly kicked a ball for us and spent most of their time out on loan. We didn’t need long term thinking at that point, we needed some tweaks to the squad. We didn’t do it and missed out on millions on offer for playing in Europe. That, for me, would have been a far more sensible way to go about things than signing the volume of players we have since (many of who have made no impact).


Spot on

[Silky]

I agree there is a balance to be struck. But I also read about the long term often and that is where I think things fall down. Football, especially at our level, isn’t and won’t ever be long term. If you look at the six months LJ has had in charge it’s been pretty disastrous and he’s going to be very lucky to get to this window (I think might just about scrape through to it).

If you go back 18 months we were in a position of strength, that’s when the first signs of this strategy started coming through. We spent six figure transfer fees on two young players who have hardly kicked a ball for us and spent most of their time out on loan. We didn’t need long term thinking at that point, we needed some tweaks to the squad. We didn’t do it and missed out on millions on offer for playing in Europe. That, for me, would have been a far more sensible way to go about things than signing the volume of players we have since (many of who have made no impact).

We emptied the manager who guided us to that "position of strength" and there was a consensus that the style of football played to get us there was not entertaining enough. Did we contribute to our own downfall?

[B.H.F.C]

We emptied the manager who guided us to that "position of strength" and there was a consensus that the style of football played to get us there was not entertaining enough. Did we contribute to our own downfall?

That manager wasn’t sufficiently backed IMO but he did have his faults.

The run that did for him wasn’t as bad as the run we’re currently on though. I think the difference was that it was his squad by the time we got to that point whereas LJ is suffering from some of the ridiculous decisions made prior to his time (although some of the sections since he came in haven’t exactly helped).

[GreenCastle]

We emptied the manager who guided us to that "position of strength" and there was a consensus that the style of football played to get us there was not entertaining enough. Did we contribute to our own downfall?

Jack Ross best result was beating the Huns at Hampden. But he also lost to Livi etc.

If we still had Jack Ross now I think we would still be reasonably stable but we needed to push on with new players after 3rd and getting into Europe and we didn’t.

Feels like Maloney and LJ have been a waste of time and steps backwards frustratingly.

[eastmainsmsh]

Look at Dundee clubs also run by Americans Aberdeen and us putting money in scottish clubs and going nowhere sadly

[madhatter]

Jack Ross best result was beating the Huns at Hampden. But he also lost to Livi etc.

If we still had Jack Ross now I think we would still be reasonably stable but we needed to push on with new players after 3rd and getting into Europe and we didn’t.

Feels like Maloney and LJ have been a waste of time and steps backwards frustratingly.

I genuinely think Jack Ross would have us in the exact same position Johnson has us in. Boyle out, Nisbet out/just returning from injury. Remember what that was like under Ross?

We rely on Nisbet, Boyle and Magennis (lesser extent) because our midfield is rotten. Ross didn't really improve it in his time with us. Gogic ended up very poor. Looks like Doyle-Hayes is gone.

If you don't build a strong defence and midfield you may as well scrap any plan you have. Hibs still haven't realised that.

[Criswell]

Tom Farmer sold out to the first person who actually game up with the cash. He wanted shot of the club and you can't really blame him. Unfortunately there was no wealthy Hibs-minded individual out there ready to step in and we ended up with Ron.

[Scotty Leither]

The amount of hingers-on in club suits, cutting about the Albion Bar after the game almost outnumbered the sparse amount fans in there.

That’s the reality of his “vision” if his laddie and CEO keep serving up the eye-bleeding garbage that we witnessed tonight, and nae amount of shuffling the chairs in the dugout will fix it either, unless we change course with recruitment and get some players in that have been over the course in the SPFL.

We’ll not get it though, and meantime our owner will continue to do his Lord Lucan act, occasionally breaking cover to do one of his delusional podcasts.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Tom Farmer sold out to the first person who actually game up with the cash. He wanted shot of the club and you can't really blame him. Unfortunately there was no wealthy Hibs-minded individual out there ready to step in and we ended up with Ron.

I really hope the ********s who spouted all kinds of malicious lies about HSL, helping to ensure it would be a failure before it even got going, are happy with what they got instead.

[Ozyhibby]

We very rarely beat Celtic, so tonight’s result wasn’t a surprise.
I’m not a fan of LJ but who else is out there that we can realistically get in as manager?
If he goes who do we get?
Nothing will change here whilst Ron and his family are in charge and are playing FM it’s them that need to go.

Are you suggesting we can’t do better than Lee Johnson? A guy who is doing worse than Shaun Maloney? And a lot worse than Jack Ross? No, I’m pretty sure we can do better than that.
I think somewhere out there is a manager who will come in and insist that we sign a new midfield. Immediately that would make him a better manager than Johnson.


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[Is It On....]

I agree there is a balance to be struck. But I also read about the long term often and that is where I think things fall down. Football, especially at our level, isn’t and won’t ever be long term. If you look at the six months LJ has had in charge it’s been pretty disastrous and he’s going to be very lucky to get to this window (I think might just about scrape through to it).

If you go back 18 months we were in a position of strength, that’s when the first signs of this strategy started coming through. We spent six figure transfer fees on two young players who have hardly kicked a ball for us and spent most of their time out on loan. We didn’t need long term thinking at that point, we needed some tweaks to the squad. We didn’t do it and missed out on millions on offer for playing in Europe. That, for me, would have been a far more sensible way to go about things than signing the volume of players we have since (many of who have made no impact).

24 months ago people were complaining about Mathie and wanted more ambition with our recruitment. I was quite happy with our get better slowly policy. The irony is that whilst Hearts had just recruited William Lancefield as Head of Recruitment (somebody Kensall would have known from his time at Norwich) and were embarking on the journey we were on, we sacked Mathie, replaced him with Gordon jnr and went on the sort signing spree so beloved of our neighbours in recent years. It's unarguable the roles have now reversed and they are in a better position than us. The positive is that things can change quickly but the first part of this is our leadership acknowledging that there are major problems with recruitment and replacing the current incumbent. Until this changes, nothing changes and we are relying on luck.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Are you suggesting we can’t do better than Lee Johnson? A guy who is doing worse than Shaun Maloney? And a lot worse than Jack Ross? No, I’m pretty sure we can do better than that.
I think somewhere out there is a manager who will come in and insist that we sign a new midfield. Immediately that would make him a better manager than Johnson.


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he has a better win percentage than Maloney. But loses more games (there were a number of soul destroying draws under Maloney).

it’s just slightly varying levels of crapness though. It is clearly not going well, despite the good win on Christmas Eve.

[B.H.F.C]

18 months ago people were complaining about Mathie and wanted more ambition with our recruitment. I was quite happy with our get better slowly policy. The irony is that whilst Hearts had just recruited William Lancefield as Head of Recruitment (somebody Kensall would have known from his time at Norwich) and were embarking on the journey we were on, we sacked Mathie, replaced him with Gordon jnr and went on the sort signing spree so beloved of our neighbours in recent years. It's unarguable the roles have now reversed and they are in a better position than us. The positive is that things can change quickly but the first part of this is our leadership acknowledging that there are major problems with recruitment and replacing the current incumbent. Until this changes, nothing changes and we are relying on luck.

Going back to that point 18 months ago I don’t think we needed to do a lot (not in terms of numbers). I thought most of the criticism of Mathie was down to the apparent inability to get the two or three deals we really needed done, over the line. With what we’ve done since we pretty much need a whole new squad now. I agree that without significant change on the non playing side (over and above the management team) nothing changes.

[hibsforeurope]

Are you implying he doesn’t spend? Or just that the same levels if income won’t be there? Nobody can accuse RG of not spending. Poor comment from you if that’s what you meant.

No, money Is clearly being spent, big screens, advertising boards, new function suites, teenage prospects don’t pay for themselves.

It’s more the things that’s been done away with because it doesn’t make money, like the match day programme ( a big part of the matchday experience for many), getting rid of good hibs people working behind the scenes (sue, tam, Kenny to name a few), getting rid of mathie/the sporting director role to save a wage, getting rid of Leeann Dempster for any reason was a mistake.

Hibs are no longer being run as a football club for the fans it’s purely business and fans are nothing more than disposable customers now.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Are you implying he doesn’t spend? Or just that the same levels if income won’t be there? Nobody can accuse RG of not spending. Poor comment from you if that’s what you meant.

The money being frittered away is our money, the CLUB’s money not the Gordon family’s personal wealth.

[LaMotta]

We very rarely beat Celtic, so tonight’s result wasn’t a surprise.
I’m not a fan of LJ but who else is out there that we can realistically get in as manager?
If he goes who do we get?
Nothing will change here whilst Ron and his family are in charge and are playing FM it’s them that need to go.

Celtic have very rarely beaten hibs at Easter Road over the last decade. They had a 16% win rate before tonight. Tonight was shocking.

[LeithMike]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.

Really good but sad post. All the more concerning from a positive poster like yourself VB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Libby Hibby]

What’s Neil Lennon doing these days?

[Northernhibee]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.
Very well put.

[theonlywayisup]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.

:top marks

I really can't comprehend how badly Hibs have mucked up what should have been a solid base to work from. Large crowds (apart from during Covid), third place in the League etc. The team that got us third place in the league only needed, IMO, a couple of quality players in midfield to reinforce what was a pretty effective team, plus maybe a goal scorer and a central defender. However, this recruitment policy of plucking random players from around Europe and beyond in the hope that they'll be good, plus buying Scottish players to loan them out to Championship teams is totally baffling.

At a time when Hibs should be growing, we're an "experiment" as the OP states. Youan, Melkerson, Tavares etc etc may prove to be good players in the future but we need some top displays now against the better teams. Did someone say we've signed 22 players in 2022 and only two outfield players started last night, one of whom was signed by accident.

We still need those couple of quality players in midfield, but the difference is almost every other position in the team needs strengthened.

[eastmainsmsh]

What’s Neil Lennon doing these days?

Get him back

[WhileTheChief..]

Get him back

It's absolutely what we should do. Would be a massive boost to a huge section of the Hibs support :thumbsup:

(I fully appreciate there would be a small but very loud section of the support totally against it :greengrin)

[Greencore]

Instead of trying to be like Sevilla FC, we should try and be more like Bodo/Glimt, very talented coach, a real togetherness in the team and board from top to bottom, they were the underdogs for years and are now fighting for high league positions. Champions league. players come and go and maybe they will lose some on the cheap but the whole culture and environment of the club is at a level we can only dream of and stays.

IMO the only way hibs or any other club in Scotland can make money is selling low and with a huge sell on fee. Scottish clubs excluding old firm are not respected and teams especially down south feel they can cherry pick any player for half their actual value. If player A does well after his transfer to England then another bigger English team will be willing to pay a higher fee resulting in profit for hibs.

Not really relevant however, I got a call from hibs asking me why I hadn't renewed I simply told them I couldn't afford it. She understood but it's just too expensive in this day and age. I understand higher prices for season tickets results in bigger budget for hibs, but isn't atmosphere, getting the next generation of hibs fans more important ?

IDK, just my 2 cents.

[HendoDelivered]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.

This. 10/10.

[Carheenlea]

The money being frittered away is our money, the CLUB’s money not the Gordon family’s personal wealth.

100%

[Carheenlea]

Where does this experiment end?

I think we’ve found one line of the updated Scottish Cup triumph song should we go on to win it this season and need to tweak the lyrics.

[CentreLine]

Get him back

Director of Football?

How much fun would that be?

[hibsforeurope]

It's absolutely what we should do. Would be a massive boost to a huge section of the Hibs support :thumbsup:

(I fully appreciate there would be a small but very loud section of the support totally against it :greengrin)
It’s the type of appointment we should be making but Ron won’t appoint someone like Lenny. He wants a manager who agrees with his policy and won’t question/object to anything.

We have a Ron Gordon type manager in now, passive, stand offish, someone who is prepared to tow the party line (all that BS about having final say on transfers).

It’s a dictatorship Ron is running and he only wants yes men (women) working for him. This has ripped the soul and passion out the club.

[theonlywayisup]

It's absolutely what we should do. Would be a massive boost to a huge section of the Hibs support :thumbsup:

(I fully appreciate there would be a small but very loud section of the support totally against it :greengrin)

Neil Lennon gave me six months when I was really believing we could become a team to challenge the Old Firm. The brand of football for that six months was the best I've ever seen watching the Hibees (I've been watching them since the 80s).

As you note, there would be a vocal minority totally against him. However, for those against it, tell me who else would get me back to believing that we can challenge the Old Firm, when for the majority of time watching the Hibs it's been top of the bottom six / bottom of the top six has become the norm., with the odd flirtation with the top three/four.

[Auckland Hibs]

I’ve never felt more disillusioned and apathetic towards Hibs than I have in the recent Gordon years. Even in relegation.

The senior leadership have hugely misaligned their priorities and let the core aspect of the club, our football team, fall to a miserable ebb. It’s pure complacency to believe they could overhaul a well established structure, sack talented staff, hire amateurs to fill key positions, and somehow come out of it fine.

I love Hibs, but I don’t really like us anymore. Outside of the obvious, the fans, the tradition, the community - the current custodians are running a tasteless, soulless operation that simply doesn’t feel like the club I know and love. I hate that I feel that way, but it’s been creeping up for a long time now.

When I think about the future, the next manager, new signings and so on; all I can really come back to is the fact we’re being run by a nepotistic gang of blowhards who carelessly sacked a number of long-standing staff in their pursuit of commercial success. That’s not the Hibernian way.

And they’ll still be around no matter who the next manager is to drink from this poisoned chalice.

Great post, I would expect a lot of us are on the same page as these sentiments.

[Scotty Leither]

I honestly think the Gordons probably wonder what all the fuss is about, and I’ll venture they don’t have the capacity to critique the performance of the team either, because they don’t know the first thing about football.

Computer says no/yes is about their strength, especially the hapless recruitment guru.

[Alfred E Newman]

It’s the type of appointment we should be making but Ron won’t appoint someone like Lenny. He wants a manager who agrees with his policy and won’t question/object to anything.

We have a Ron Gordon type manager in now, passive, stand offish, someone who is prepared to tow the party line (all that BS about having final say on transfers).

It’s a dictatorship Ron is running and he only wants yes men (women) working for him. This has ripped the soul and passion out the club.
And to think supporters used to want rid of Farmer and Petrie.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I honestly think the Gordons probably wonder what all the fuss is about, and I’ll venture they don’t have the capacity to critique the performance of the team either, because they don’t know the first thing about football.

Computer says no/yes is about their strength, especially the hapless recruitment guru.

Certainly the impression I get from interviews.

If the stats/numbers/databases add up then everything is going swimmingly seemed to be the theme.

[hibsbollah]

Certainly the impression I get from interviews.

If the stats/numbers/databases add up then everything is going swimmingly seemed to be the theme.

Wait a minute…are we now saying they don’t care if they win or lose? That they haven’t noticed that you get more rewards the higher you get up the table or get far in cups?

Let’s be serious about the criticism or there’s no point even trying.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Wait a minute…are we now saying they don’t care if they win or lose? That they haven’t noticed that you get more rewards the higher you get up the table or get far in cups?

Let’s be serious about the criticism or there’s no point even trying.

In the interviews he’s done it always comes back round to how well the numbers are adding up.

Maybe he does realise it. But he rarely seems all that bothered about it in interviews as he’s too busy trying to get back to telling us about revenue and hospitality and how good a job he’s done increasing/improving the non football things.

[hibsbollah]

In the interviews he’s done it always comes back round to how well the numbers are adding up.

Maybe he does realise it. But he rarely seems all that bothered about it in interviews as he’s too busy trying to get back to telling us about revenue and hospitality and how good a job he’s done increasing/improving the non football things.

Because we’re 8th in the table instead of where he wants us to be? If I was him I’d be emphasizing where he’s succeeding too. I don’t think he’s ignoring our performances on the pitch, quite the opposite, otherwise he wouldn’t have paid off successive managers when results became unacceptable.

[matty_f]

In the interviews he’s done it always comes back round to how well the numbers are adding up.

Maybe he does realise it. But he rarely seems all that bothered about it in interviews as he’s too busy trying to get back to telling us about revenue and hospitality and how good a job he’s done increasing/improving the non football things.
He also said the football side - the important bit, as he called it - hasn't been good enough.

[Pretty Boy]

Wait a minute…are we now saying they don’t care if they win or lose? That they haven’t noticed that you get more rewards the higher you get up the table or get far in cups?

Let’s be serious about the criticism or there’s no point even trying.

A few years back I was lucky enough to meet Leeann Dempster only a week or so after she was appointed. There was a lot of people there but she did her best to get round everyone and I had about 10 minutes with her.

I showed her what had been the ST literature for the season ahead (the horribly misguided TBGAWA campaign). I asked her what she noticed about it and she spotted it right away, as had I as soon as i received it through the post. There were 5 bullet points about why you should buy a ST and every single one was about money. Football wasn't mentioned in 3 of the points at all and in the other 2 it was mentioned but only as a byproduct of the financial aspect.

That's not to say Rod Petrie, who signed off on that campaign, didn't care if we won or lost but it gives some insight into how football was viewed by those in power at that time. I don't think it's all that different now really, winning is a vehicle for making more money but it's not the be all and end all in the same way it is for us fans.

[hibsbollah]

A few years back I was lucky enough to meet Leeann Dempster only a week or so after she was appointed. There was a lot of people there but she did her best to get round everyone and I had about 10 minutes with her.

I showed her what had been the ST literature for the season ahead (the horribly misguided TBGAWA campaign). I asked her what she noticed about it and she spotted it right away, as had I as soon as i received it through the post. There were 5 bullet points about why you should buy a ST and every single one was about money. Football wasn't mentioned in 3 of the points at all and in the other 2 it was mentioned but only as a byproduct of the financial aspect.

That's not to say Rod Petrie, who signed off on that campaign, didn't care if we won or lost but it gives some insight into how football was viewed by those in power at that time. I don't think it's all that different now really, winning is a vehicle for making more money but it's not the be all and end all in the same way it is for us fans.

Longevity is also important for most fans, at least if they are anything like me it is. In that respect I like the idea of building for the future so that there is a club that my kids can continue to support in future years. So when folk on here complain that the eleven players that are on the pitch RIGHT NOW is the only thing that matters, I don’t totally agree. I like the idea of taking a punt on young talent that you nurture and maybe don’t get instant gratification but you might have a great player AND an investment in future years.

Now I know Bojang Tavares and McKirdy don’t look like they’re going to be that at this point. And if that lack of investment in proven SPL hairy arsed veterans contributes to our relegation of course it’s not worth it. But chucking out the sound principle because the delivery of it has been ***** would also be a mistake.

[matty_f]

Longevity is also important for most fans, at least if they are anything like me it is. In that respect I like the idea of building for the future so that there is a club that my kids can continue to support in future years. So when folk on here complain that the eleven players that are on the pitch RIGHT NOW is the only thing that matters, I don’t totally agree. I like the idea of taking a punt on young talent that you nurture and maybe don’t get instant gratification but you might have a great player AND an investment in future years.

Now I know Bojang Tavares and McKirdy don’t look like they’re going to be that at this point. And if that lack of investment in proven SPL hairy arsed veterans contributes to our relegation of course it’s not worth it. But chucking out the sound principle because the delivery of it has been ***** would also be a mistake.
Cracking post.

[WhileTheChief..]

Neil Lennon gave me six months when I was really believing we could become a team to challenge the Old Firm. The brand of football for that six months was the best I've ever seen watching the Hibees (I've been watching them since the 80s).

As you note, there would be a vocal minority totally against him. However, for those against it, tell me who else would get me back to believing that we can challenge the Old Firm, when for the majority of time watching the Hibs it's been top of the bottom six / bottom of the top six has become the norm., with the odd flirtation with the top three/four.

Same. It was absolutely fantastic going to ER back then.

Remember going into games against the Old Firm and actually believing we would win, and then going out and doing it!! Now we're back to posting things like 'Celtic are loaded, we can't compete".

I can't think of a game at ER since he left that ER was properly bouncing?

Natural Order, Ear Cupping, Aeroplane, 5-3, 5-5.....great times :thumbsup:

[wookie70]

Neil Lennon gave me six months when I was really believing we could become a team to challenge the Old Firm. The brand of football for that six months was the best I've ever seen watching the Hibees (I've been watching them since the 80s).

As you note, there would be a vocal minority totally against him. However, for those against it, tell me who else would get me back to believing that we can challenge the Old Firm, when for the majority of time watching the Hibs it's been top of the bottom six / bottom of the top six has become the norm., with the odd flirtation with the top three/four.

Those 6 months(4 months) were great but to me Lennon was probably where it all started going wrong. We started buying random players, never looked like we had a plan until SDG got injured and Boyle started playing there. Lennon started teh scattergun approach to signings and once the players signed under Stubbs started to leave it all fell apart. You need the players to do what Lennon did and that became less likely when Lennon was here and even less likely now we appear to have another policy for signing players.

[Allant1981]

Lennon inherited a good team, had us playing well for a while then things started going really bad, then worked his ticket as soon as celtic came looking for him(which also turned out bad for him) thanks but no thanks

[Jones28]

Neil Lennon gave me six months when I was really believing we could become a team to challenge the Old Firm. The brand of football for that six months was the best I've ever seen watching the Hibees (I've been watching them since the 80s).

As you note, there would be a vocal minority totally against him. However, for those against it, tell me who else would get me back to believing that we can challenge the Old Firm, when for the majority of time watching the Hibs it's been top of the bottom six / bottom of the top six has become the norm., with the odd flirtation with the top three/four.

I’d be against Lennon coming back.

For all he gave us a brilliant ride in our first season back in the top flight he had a fairly mediocre time in the championship where it was turgid stuff at times. We also had one of the best midfields I’ve seen at Hibs in the second half of that season

That summer recruitment was a real issue. We had an ageing squad and after a decent start things fell away really dramatically. Does no one remember how his time at Hibs ended?

Now ask yourself this, how much shouting and bawling is going to help our current players improve? Is Newell going to turn in to John McGinn because Neil Lennon shouts at him every day? Is Magennis going to have his next injury screamed better by Neil Lennon? Will he give the ball a bollocking so it stays out of our net?

I don’t question Lennons time at Hibs was a success over all. We had balls and bravery and went to Ibrox and park head with no fear, but we also went there with players vastly superior in quality and team chemistry.

I don’t have an alternative to Lennon. Roy Keane was someone I would have liked to see get the job in summer because I thought he’d come with a lot of the qualities Lennon has, he had managed at a decent level and also he’s played at the pinnacle of the game. That ship has sailed clearly.

[Green_one]

I cannot see much evidence to cause confidence that things will get positive. Some brilliant January signings? Unlikely.

The reality is we could be sitting here soon, out of the Scottish Cup, beaten twice in a month by Hearts and edging closer to the very bottom of the league. Then we would be facing ANOTHER managerial change. Things are not working but the end of the current pain is well off.

Pray for an unexpectedly good January window

[Pretty Boy]

Longevity is also important for most fans, at least if they are anything like me it is. In that respect I like the idea of building for the future so that there is a club that my kids can continue to support in future years. So when folk on here complain that the eleven players that are on the pitch RIGHT NOW is the only thing that matters, I don’t totally agree. I like the idea of taking a punt on young talent that you nurture and maybe don’t get instant gratification but you might have a great player AND an investment in future years.

Now I know Bojang Tavares and McKirdy don’t look like they’re going to be that at this point. And if that lack of investment in proven SPL hairy arsed veterans contributes to our relegation of course it’s not worth it. But chucking out the sound principle because the delivery of it has been ***** would also be a mistake.

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

Well said.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

Very good post.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

:top marks

The same applies to home grown talent, there simply isn't any such thing as a conveyor belt of talent at any club, if you get two or three regulars in the first team every 5 years you are doing very well.

But the brutal truth you have highlighted here is that like 38 clubs in this country and countless others elsewhere Hibs life blood is income from bums on seats and messing with it is a fatal mistake ...... What does it profit the club if 5 years from now we sell one of these mythical rough diamonds we are looking to discover for 10 million quid when his silky talents that drew the attention of Real Madrid or Man City have been watched for two seasons by 6,000 paying punters because the price we paid was a first team that flirts with relegation and can't make Hampden or Europe season after season.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

Totally agree with this.

[hibsbollah]

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

I think the only appropriate response is, we’ll see what happens.

[SickBoy32]

I'm just not convinced the principle of it is all that sound. If it was as easy as sign a few young players, a couple will turn out brilliant and then you sell them for millions and repeat the process then I'd suggest someone else would have cracked it before now. It's not some visionary and radical new world idea, clubs at our level have looked to find or develop the odd gem for years. Kevin Nicol, Hakim Sar-Temsouray, Colin Morton, Tom Phillips (who? you ask), Sam Morrow, Chris Hogg, Yves Ma Kalambay, Steven Thicot, Danny Galbraith, Victor Palsson, David Stephens, Fraser Mullen, Aaron Scott, Otso Virtanen.....were all 22 or under when we signed them and many came from big clubs with decent pedigree. How many made any real impact at Hibs? Hogg is the only one I think you can make a really strong case for. A couple have went on to have decent careers elsewhere but not a single one of them made us any money and I don't see that any (Hogg excepted) contributed to much on field success at Hibs either. There just isn't a whole load of undiscovered gems out there, it's needle in a haystack stuff as the big boys hoover up so much talent simply because they can. Your best bet is maybe a young player who just happened to have someone a bit better ahead of him at another club but even then you are as likely to get a Ritchie Towell as a Josh Doig or Andy Robertson.

Everything at Hibs hinges on a successful first team because ticket sales and match day revenue is still a hugely significant part of our income in a way it isn't at someone like Manchester City or even Celtic with their guaranteed Champions League football in the short term. I don't think any Hibs fan can be accused of wanting instant gratification right now, in my lifetime I think we have only ever put 2 decent seasons together back to back once (in the top flight) but we are still pulling in big crowds with ST sales that sit at levels that compare favourably to almost every other period in our history.

I'd love to be wrong because if I am it will mean Melkerson, Tavares, Kenneh and Hague have fired us to 3rd place and the latter stages of cups before moving on for 7 figure fees. My gut instinct though is that Ron Gordon and others involved in formulating this plan are living in a fools paradise. When it comes to young players we are shopping in the bargain basement, same as we are with experienced players. We might get a hit rate of 1 or 2 in a 5 or 10 year period but it's not the foundations to build a successful football team upon.

Excellent post, absolutely bang on the money.

This should be printed off and stuck to the doors at ER / EM before these clowns can do anymore damage in Jan !

[B.H.F.C]

I think the only appropriate response is, we’ll see what happens.

Think the counter argument to that would be that we are seeing (we don’t need to wait). I know the ‘give them time’ argument will be used for many of the players but I think the key point in Pretty Boy’s post is that all these players aren’t giving us the foundation to build a team. Without that, I don’t see how we get the younger ones in to the team to develop them. Melkersen is the prime example for me. He doesn’t look any closer to being a regular player for us than he did when he arrived a year ago.

[hibsbollah]

Think the counter argument to that would be that we are seeing (we don’t need to wait). I know the ‘give them time’ argument will be used for many of the players but I think the key point in Pretty Boy’s post is that all these players aren’t giving us the foundation to build a team. Without that, I don’t see how we get the younger ones in to the team to develop them. Melkersen is the prime example for me. He doesn’t look any closer to being a regular player for us than he did when he arrived a year ago.

It’s not really an ‘argument’, it’s a fact. So you can’t really make a counter argument against the march of time, it’s a fact, We WILL see what happens :greengrin

And anyway, ‘We don’t need to wait’ is a fairly reactionary response though, isn’t it? I’m not predicting the future, I’m just saying that an alternative reality IS possible. I think some of the negativity is becoming contagious and breeding this desire to pretend to KNOW what’s going to happen tomorrow. Personally, I don’t know, because it’s sport and it’s unpredictable.

[B.H.F.C]

‘We don’t need to wait’ is a fairly reactionary response though, isn’t it? I’m not predicting the future, I’m just saying that an alternative reality IS possible. I think some of the negativity is becoming contagious and breeding this desire to pretend to KNOW what’s going to happen tomorrow. Personally, I don’t know, because it’s sport and it’s unpredictable.

As you rightly point out, we can’t see in to the future, so I think we can only really form an opinion based on what we actually have. And if you’re doing that, there’s no way it’s not going to breed negativity.

We can only hope that this window signals the start of things changing.

[hibsbollah]

As you rightly point out, we can’t see in to the future, so I think we can only really form an opinion based on what we actually have. And if you’re doing that, there’s no way it’s not going to breed negativity.

We can only hope that this window signals the start of things changing.

Agreed. And I think moving a few players on to give others a run in the team is almost as important as bringing new ones in.

[RIP]

Agreed. And I think moving a few players on to give others a run in the team is almost as important as bringing new ones in.

And more credible than hoping to sign an 'SPL-Ready' player from the bare bones of the January window.