Hibs v Livi, is it a must win game ?

[greenpaper55]

Lose this and it’s one win in god knows how many ? Real pressure on the manager to get a result against a team with far fewer resources than us.

[CapitalGreen]

Lose this and it’s one win in god knows how many ? Real pressure on the manager to get a result against a team with far fewer resources than us.

What competitive games aren’t must win? Do we regularly go into other mid season games thinking we don’t need to win them?

[bingo70]

Lose this and it’s one win in god knows how many ? Real pressure on the manager to get a result against a team with far fewer resources than us.

Yes, I think it is.

Clearly from a mathematical perspective nothing will be decided either way tomorrow but from a momentum point of view and for LJ keeping his job, we really need a win tomorrow.

[B.H.F.C]

What competitive games aren’t must win? Do we regularly go into other mid season games thinking we don’t need to win them?

There are games that take on extra significance though, depending on circumstances. This is definitely one. There’s always some kind of breaking point and LJ, in particular, is very close to it without a win tomorrow given current form and the two games to follow.

[Brightside]

15/4 Livi.

[Johnny_Leith]

15/4 Livi.

I think they've beaten us the last 4 times we've played? So they're great odds, never even mind the run we are on.

[Since452]

It's a gigantic game. If we lose with Celtic and Hearts next it could be hard to come back from for the manager and he'll be fully aware of that. I can see another defeat sadly. Honking record against them. Martindale has us sussed.

[Stubbsy90+2]

It's a gigantic game. If we lose with Celtic and Hearts next it could be hard to come back from for the manager and he'll be fully aware of that. I can see another defeat sadly. Honking record against them. Martindale has us sussed.

It’s Celtic next.

[Scotty Leither]

Imagine Livingston beating us 4 times in a row.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Imagine Livingston beating us 4 times in a row.

Ok - I’ve done that. What do I do now?

[HH81]

Ok - I’ve done that. What do I do now?

Pray it's not 5.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Pray it's not 5.

I’ve decided to skip a step and pray it’s not 4.

[Key West]

With players coming back the performance as much as the result will be a big factor in wether we are heading in the right or wrong direction. A must win just heaps more pressure on everyone.

[Carheenlea]

Looking at the next few fixtures tomorrow is one that nothing less than a win should be desired.

Score first, get the fans onside and I reckon we will win tomorrow quite comfortably. Well overdue a decent outing and don’t have any evidence to support that view other than the law of averages at some point seeing us win a game in the midst of this awful run.

If we do lose it’s one that might not attract as much scrutiny as it may otherwise see given Christmas and family taking centre stage over weekend. The biggest danger is fans just starting to lose interest.

[DIXIHIBS]

Looking at the next few fixtures tomorrow is one that nothing less than a win should be desired.

Score first, get the fans onside and I reckon we will win tomorrow quite comfortably. Well overdue a decent outing and don’t have any evidence to support that view other than the law of averages at some point seeing us win a game in the midst of this awful run.

If we do lose it’s one that might not attract as much scrutiny as it may otherwise see given Christmas and family taking centre stage over weekend. The biggest danger is fans just starting to lose interest.


Seems like the fans are already losing interest. When you see as many season ticket holders not turning up as seems to be the case right now, we have a problem. Huge disconnect with fans/club at the moment.

[coldingham hibs]

It's a gigantic game. If we lose with Celtic and Hearts next it could be hard to come back from for the manager and he'll be fully aware of that. I can see another defeat sadly. Honking record against them. Martindale has us sussed.

Everyone has us sussed, just cross a ball into our box.

[Hibees1973]

Must win...why?

If we lose what would happen. Very little I expect in the short term.

If given the choice to lose the game which would result in Ron accepting an offer for the club from a competent and coherent owner, his son squirming back to the USA and us appointing a qualified Chief of Recruitment and also Kensall going, I would take the hit and lose 3 points tomorrow.

The likelihood tomorrow it will be another disjointed performance with us picking up a maximum 1 point, then stumbling on blindly to the next game against Celtic.

My ire would not be pointed a Johnson if we do not win tomorrow, even though I think he is clueless.

[HFC93]

Yes.

Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Billy Whizz]

Strangely looking forward to the game tomorrow. Seems like ages since I’ve been to a league game at ER

[bigwheel]

Strangely looking forward to the game tomorrow. Seems like ages since I’ve been to a league game at ER

So am I Bill. Seeing friends , game of football..great Xmas Eve activity ..

[B.H.F.C]

Must win...why?

If we lose what would happen. Very little I expect in the short term.

If given the choice to lose the game which would result in Ron accepting an offer for the club from a competent and coherent owner, his son squirming back to the USA and us appointing a qualified Chief of Recruitment and also Kensall going, I would take the hit and lose 3 points tomorrow.

The likelihood tomorrow it will be another disjointed performance with us picking up a maximum 1 point, then stumbling on blindly to the next game against Celtic.

My ire would not be pointed a Johnson if we do not win tomorrow, even though I think he is clueless.

On the basis that none of your wishes are going to come true on the back of tomorrow, surely you’d have to acknowledge that this is a massive game for us. Not because it’s going to spark some kind of monumental change at the club, but from the point of view that we need to put some points on the board. This is our best chance of doing so over the festive period.

[GreenCastle]

If we lose tomorrow we don’t get relegated but the 2nd loss to Livi and the 5th loss in a row would be unacceptable.

Add in the current poor run of form we are on and Celtic and Hearts next then we are seriously failing.

Xmas eve game or not I would expect fans to be seriously pissed off if they attend tomorrow and Hibs lose.

[JamesHFC]

I'm not sure how LJ survives another defeat tomorrow. Here's hoping it's a win and we can have a happy hibee Christmas.

[Pretty Boy]

I just can't see it being a pretty game regardless of the result. A win would be welcome but I'm sceptical a scrappy 1-0 really does much for Johnson, lose to Celtic and Hearts and a win v Livi isn't going to be particularly persuasive mitigation. You can't fault the job Martindale has done but Livingston are a really hard watch. I can see frustrations from players and fans alike creeping in early doors.

It is a must win (in practice if not mathematicaly) but I almost think it's bordering on a 'must win with a good performance'.

[Basildon Hibs]

I just can't see it being a pretty game regardless of the result. A win would be welcome but I'm sceptical a scrappy 1-0 really does much for Johnson, lose to Celtic and Hearts and a win v Livi isn't going to be particularly persuasive mitigation. You can't fault the job Martindale has done but Livingston are a really hard watch. I can see frustrations from players and fans alike creeping in early doors.

It is a must win (in practice if not mathematicaly) but I almost think it's bordering on a 'must win with a good performance'.

Deffo a must win for LJ or I reckon he'll be sacked.

[B.H.F.C]

I just can't see it being a pretty game regardless of the result. A win would be welcome but I'm sceptical a scrappy 1-0 really does much for Johnson, lose to Celtic and Hearts and a win v Livi isn't going to be particularly persuasive mitigation. You can't fault the job Martindale has done but Livingston are a really hard watch. I can see frustrations from players and fans alike creeping in early doors.

It is a must win (in practice if not mathematicaly) but I almost think it's bordering on a 'must win with a good performance'.

Longer term I agree in that I don’t think it does much for Johnson. I don’t think a win is going to transform our fortunes dramatically. I just think we really need the points to get a bit more breathing space on the sides below us. Realistically, I don’t see us picking much up in the two games to follow so no win tomorrow would have us right in the relegation mix early in the new year.

[JimBHibees]

I just can't see it being a pretty game regardless of the result. A win would be welcome but I'm sceptical a scrappy 1-0 really does much for Johnson, lose to Celtic and Hearts and a win v Livi isn't going to be particularly persuasive mitigation. You can't fault the job Martindale has done but Livingston are a really hard watch. I can see frustrations from players and fans alike creeping in early doors.

It is a must win (in practice if not mathematicaly) but I almost think it's bordering on a 'must win with a good performance'.

Livingston dont do pretty games however only lost 2 1 to Celtic including an own goal so definitely a difficult game. Get ahead of them and it opens up the match.

[Broken Gnome]

I just can't see it being a pretty game regardless of the result. A win would be welcome but I'm sceptical a scrappy 1-0 really does much for Johnson, lose to Celtic and Hearts and a win v Livi isn't going to be particularly persuasive mitigation. You can't fault the job Martindale has done but Livingston are a really hard watch. I can see frustrations from players and fans alike creeping in early doors.

It is a must win (in practice if not mathematicaly) but I almost think it's bordering on a 'must win with a good performance'.

I think we need a bit of pragmatism, and folk should be wise enough of Livingston now to be realistic about things. It is pretty rare for Hibs to play well against Livingston,home or away, and the odds don't really suggest tomorrow will be one of the better displays.

I think 1-0/2-1 coming out on top after a battle would be a brilliant result, all things considered. Fans need to suck that up a bit, it's likely going to be a struggle. Don't care about how demeaning or unpalatable that might be, it's where we are.

He gets away with a point - stopping the rot if nothing else - if we play well and pick up either two or three points from Celtic/Hearts.

[judas]

Lose this and it’s one win in god knows how many ? Real pressure on the manager to get a result against a team with far fewer resources than us.

For Hibs, no. For LJ, yes.

[CMac1988]

Yes. But so were the games against the bottom three before the world cup. Win or lose **** needs to change and fast.

[bingo70]

Livingston dont do pretty games however only lost 2 1 to Celtic including an own goal so definitely a difficult game. Get ahead of them and it opens up the match.

I watched the second half of their game against Celtic the other night and they looked a nightmare to play against.

They’ll defend deep, giving no space to work with, they’ll scrap for every ball, work harder than most teams and make it very very difficult for the footballers to play (not that we’ve got many of them just now to be honest), at the other end they never offered anything against Celtic in the second half but we know how it works against us. They’ll be physical, direct and ruthless with the chances they do get.

Not going to be a pretty game at all and I fear it’s a pretty horrible fixture for us to get just now as they’ll take advantage of any vulnerabilities.

I think it’ll be a draw.

[Billy Whizz]

Has LJ done his presser yet? Haven’t seen/read any pre match comments from him or the players

[Tarrahib]

Strangely looking forward to the game tomorrow. Seems like ages since I’ve been to a league game at ER
We have decided to travel down for the game. Get the bus home at 5 pm.VAR permitting.

[Diclonius]

If we don't win tomorrow then it isn't unthinkable that we could be bottom come the end of January.

[leith lynx]

Has LJ done his presser yet? Haven’t seen/read any pre match comments from him or the players

Quite unusual this, as of now nothing on BBC or EEN.

[bingo70]

Quite unusual this, as of now nothing on BBC or EEN.

Have other teams done their pre-match interviews?

[ancient hibee]

Quite unusual this, as of now nothing on BBC or EEN.

Summary on BBC Sport since 14.53 :greengrin

[Keith_M]

When somebody asks if a game is a 'must win', my feeling is that they need to be a bit more specific with the consequence if we don't.


e.g. 1) Must win OR we'll be relegated... 2) must win OR the manager will be sacked... 3) must win OR Santa won't deliver any presents, etc.


Anyway, here's my answers

1) Not necessarily

2) Possibly, but don;t think it's likely

3) Not sure, but I'd cry if that happens.

[leith lynx]

Summary on BBC Sport since 14.53 :greengrin

Horse, bolt, stable door!😡

[danhibees1875]

15/4 Livi.

No chance we'll score 4.

[WhileTheChief..]

Nothing will change.

If we lose, it just gets added to the long list of consecutive defeats. If we win, it will likely just be a reprieve until the Celtic game!!
Would be nice going into Xmas day with the 3pts mind :snowman

[MWHIBBIES]

No. Happy to lose this and win the next 10.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes it's a must win game for me.

We are currently in freefall and have two of the top four teams to play after tomorrow.

If we don't win tomorrow it's quite possible we'll go into Christmas in 9th place with two of the hardest fixtures of the season up next and in serious danger of becoming embroiled in a relegation battle.

[CMac1988]

Has LJ done his presser yet? Haven’t seen/read any pre match comments from him or the players

Hibs pre match interviews are up. LJ and Youan.

https://youtu.be/dMBb3LDUr3Q

https://youtu.be/3Mnf-Zj5SkY

[Scotty Leither]

Hibs pre match interviews are up. LJ and Youan.

https://youtu.be/dMBb3LDUr3Q

https://youtu.be/3Mnf-Zj5SkY

Any chance of embedding the link?

[Donegal Hibby]

I'd go along with the opinions that 3 points are a must as well though it's one of them games I hate because we all know what there game plan will be , sit in deep and try catch us on the break , I find Livingston awful to watch just the type of football that spoils a game becoming a good spectacle for the neutral , it works for them though . Hopefully we can find the right key to open there defense . Wil be tight game though imo.

[Keith_M]

Any chance of embedding the link?


Hopefully this works for you...

https://youtu.be/dMBb3LDUr3Q

https://youtu.be/3Mnf-Zj5SkY

[blackpoolhibs]

I've put us down for a draw, but Livi are never a 4/1 shot, and i will have a little flutter on them at that price.

[CMac1988]

Any chance of embedding the link?

Sorry was using the mobile site. Sorted now but Keith has reposted also.

[Donegal Hibby]

I've put us down for a draw, but Livi are never a 4/1 shot, and i will have a little flutter on them at that price.
Et Tu , brute ? :greengrin

[Scotty Leither]

Sorry was using the mobile site. Sorted now but Keith has reposted also.

Thanks.

[Donegal Hibby]

Mykola hasn't made it for our game which is a blow , think we could have done with him for his physical presense.

[wookie70]

Everyone has us sussed, just cross a ball into our box.

And we set up to allow teams to get into our third and don't pressure the crosses.

[wookie70]

Has LJ done his presser yet? Haven’t seen/read any pre match comments from him or the players
Press conference was today. Youan and Hanlon were teh players interviewed going by the images.

[Basildon Hibs]

I'm not sure how LJ survives another defeat tomorrow. Here's hoping it's a win and we can have a happy hibee Christmas.

He should be toast if we lose.

[Carheenlea]

Our problems run deeper than LJ, and sacking him if we lose tomorrow doesn’t really change an awful lot regardless of who is brought in to replace him if the same structure behind the scenes remains.

Would be a sacking for sackings sake. There comes a time when you have to ask why managers are continuing to fail.

[Onion]

Our problems run deeper than LJ, and sacking him if we lose tomorrow doesn’t really change an awful lot regardless of who is brought in to replace him if the same structure behind the scenes remains.

Would be a sacking for sackings sake. There comes a time when you have to ask why managers are continuing to fail.

Agreed, which is why LJ is untouchable. Not a chance he'll will be sacked anytime soon, even if we get dragged into another relegation dog-fight. Owner & Board are a cluster-****. Even if they recognise the problems with recruitment, direction, strategy, they have zero collective competence to do anything about it.

A rudderless ship, holed beneath the water line. Otherwise, every thing is fine :greengrin

[Key West]

Our problems run deeper than LJ, and sacking him if we lose tomorrow doesn’t really change an awful lot regardless of who is brought in to replace him if the same structure behind the scenes remains.

Would be a sacking for sackings sake. There comes a time when you have to ask why managers are continuing to fail.

Best post so far.

[LunasBoots]

Yes, we tend to slip in the second half of seasons so for me we are in worrying times

[Eyrie]

Our problems run deeper than LJ, and sacking him if we lose tomorrow doesn’t really change an awful lot regardless of who is brought in to replace him if the same structure behind the scenes remains.

Would be a sacking for sackings sake. There comes a time when you have to ask why managers are continuing to fail.

Correct.

If Johnson is a failure, then do we really want the people who appointed two failures in a row appointing the next manager? There has to be change higher up first.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Although we badly need a win and points, I think that the performance matters more. Hopefully we get 90 minutes of what we saw in the first 45 at Ibrox. That should see us get the three points.

[Stuart93]

I’m going to be having nightmares tonight of Nouble bullying Hanlon tomorrow

[Ronniekirk]

When I looked at the first four fixtures after the World Cup break my gut feeling was we could loose them all The must win games come after this But anything we can take v Livi would be welcome

[Sir David Gray]

Yes, we tend to slip in the second half of seasons so for me we are in worrying times

I wanted to see how accurate that actually was and sadly it does seem quite true.

With the exception of 19/20, in the seasons where we have been in the top flight we have only had a better second half to the season twice since 2011/12 and in one of these seasons (11/12) we only had 14 points from our first 19 games.

Incidentally if we lose tomorrow we'll have the lowest points tally at the half way stage out of any top flight season since 2011/12.

21/22

first half (26)
second half (19)

20/21

first half (36)
second half (27)

18/19

first half (28)
second half (26)

17/18

first half (30)
second half (37)

13/14

first half (24)
second half (11)

12/13

first half (28)
second half (23)

11/12

first half (14)
second half (19)

[HH81]

Wish Hibs had have put this on PPV. Seems a good idea considering Xmas eve.

[allezsauzee]

We need at least 1 win from the next 3 games I reckon or Lee Johnson is likely to get punted and this is the most winnable. Our recruitment in January is much more important in terms of avoiding relegation but 3 points today would at least give us and LJ a bit of breathing space.

[Alfred E Newman]

Wish Hibs had have put this on PPV. Seems a good idea considering Xmas eve.

I wish the SPL had used common sense and scheduled this weekends fixtures for Boxing Day.

[HH81]

I wish the SPL had used common sense and scheduled this weekends fixtures for Boxing Day.

True. I'd have actually drove up for it.

[GreenCastle]

Is the Derby now a must win for LJ ?

I know many fans will say they would take a draw but he needs an important win for credit in the bank. Some fans think 2 derby games and then judge but do we wait ?!

Lose it and 3rd is gone (it’s gone already in my opinion).
Hearts would be 8 points ahead with a game in hand.

Transfer window opens soon - is he trusted with bringing players in or do we give a new manager a chance to build for next season ?

[WhileTheChief..]

Lose the 2 derbies then make the change is my bet.

[B.H.F.C]

Is the Derby now a must win for LJ ?

I know many fans will say they would take a draw but he needs an important win for credit in the bank. Some fans think 2 derby games and then judge but do we wait ?!

Lose it and 3rd is gone (it’s gone already in my opinion).
Hearts would be 8 points ahead with a game in hand.

Transfer window opens soon - is he trusted with bringing players in or do we give a new manager a chance to build for next season ?

Depends what happens in between the two derbies against Motherwell and Dundee Utd as well. I think he would survive a defeat on Monday (unless it’s a hammering) but things can’t just go on indefinitely, irrespective of how many other issues we have.

[Carheenlea]

Lose the 2 derbies then make the change is my bet.

Needs to win one of them to continue on I think. If we lose the first one we might see the change being made before the next one.

I’d be inclined to look beyond simply the manager for making changes first though.

[B.H.F.C]

Needs to win one of them to continue on I think. If we lose the first one we might see the change being made before the next one.

I’d be inclined to look beyond simply the manager for making changes first though.

Agree with the last sentence but don’t see anything beyond the manager being changed.

[Mikey_1875]

It would probably tip the scales for me personally. Too many undelivered ideas from the start of the season (or even prospect of them being delivered). That has all disappeared now and we are left with a gradually less convincing argument that he knows what is wrong and needs multiple windows to fix it.

Far from the only thing wrong with us currently but needs to take a fair share of the blame.

Not sure how the club will see it but I’d guess it would need to be a heavy defeat and performance for him to be sacked straight away. If we did lose the derby suddenly the two games that follow look pretty big to avoid being dragged in completely.