Accepting mediocrity

[OldEast]

Question for the many who use this phrase when things aren't going well. What does NOT accepting mediocrity mean to you?

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Not buying a pie at match knowing it's going to be ****.

[Smartie]

It's a phrase I absolutely hate to hear and I'm not coming at this from the position of someone who uses the phrase, however...

Is there a place for a mindset relating to a player who is maybe inconsistent, has a serious weakness in their game not quite balanced out by a fantastically strong attribute, someone who is old, someone who loses concentration at vital times, someone who is totally one-footed, has "potential" that they're clearly not delivering on or someone who clearly has a problem with fitness or injury etc etc...

And deciding that instead of "they'll do" or constantly making excuses for them, that they are the players we need to be replacing in order for us to progress?

You can make a positive case for keeping almost everyone at our club. If we do that though, we will continue our decline.

[OldEast]

It's a phrase I absolutely hate to hear and I'm not coming at this from the position of someone who uses the phrase, however...

Is there a place for a mindset relating to a player who is maybe inconsistent, has a serious weakness in their game not quite balanced out by a fantastically strong attribute, someone who is old, someone who loses concentration at vital times, someone who is totally one-footed, has "potential" that they're clearly not delivering on or someone who clearly has a problem with fitness or injury etc etc...

And deciding that instead of "they'll do" or constantly making excuses for them, that they are the players we need to be replacing in order for us to progress?

You can make a positive case for keeping almost everyone at our club. If we do that though, we will continue our decline.

I hate the phrase too. Keeping players at the club past their sell by date isn't a fans choice though. I want to know, from someone who uses the phrase, usually whilst having a go at other fans, what would not accepting mediocrity by the fans actually mean.

[Jones28]

I hate the phrase too. Keeping players at the club past their sell by date isn't a fans choice though. I want to know, from someone who uses the phrase, usually whilst having a go at other fans, what would not accepting mediocrity by the fans actually mean.

If I were to use it, and I wouldn’t because I detest the phrase, I would say that not accepting mediocrity means not going to games/protesting en mass/actively campaigning for massive change.

When we got relegated there were protests after the game and in the following days. That is what not accepting mediocrity looks like, not just chucking the phrase out there to try and strengthen whatever point about Joe Newall it is you’re trying to make.

[OldEast]

If I were to use it, and I wouldn’t because I detest the phrase, I would say that not accepting mediocrity means not going to games/protesting en mass/actively campaigning for massive change.

When we got relegated there were protests after the game and in the following days. That is what not accepting mediocrity looks like, not just chucking the phrase out there to try and strengthen whatever point about Joe Newall it is you’re trying to make.

Exactly what I thought. Still like to see a reply from a user though. Would their actions back up their words or is it as you say just an easy phrase to chuck in.

[He's here!]

Question for the many who use this phrase when things aren't going well. What does NOT accepting mediocrity mean to you?

It means not just moaning about how c***p Hibs are on here or in the pub. The near relentless substandard dross we've been served up for the last year (and on countless previous occasions) deserves a boycott/demo/march on the training ground/white hankies waved at games a la Barca/players, dugout and directors box pelted with soft tomatoes etc. That gets a message across. A bit of booing is nothing new to the players so they'll just shrug it off.

Such things are unlikely to happen because most of us resignedly accept it's only football and we've saddled ourselves with a club where underachievement is the norm.

I noticed that the Everton players had to be ushered away from their irate fans when they tried to applaud them after getting cuffed yesterday. Maybe that level of anger would at least be a start in getting the message across to RG etc that what we're seeing is 'unacceptable'.

LJ's claims that the fans were booing the result not the performance yesterday were laughable. If he honestly believes that then dream on Lee...

[NAE NOOKIE]

What isn't and never should be taken as a sign of 'accepting mediocrity' is continuing to turn up and support the team when it's rubbish ... that for me is the definition of what being a supporter is all about and the true measure of the quality of a club's support.

That does not mean you don't have the right to complain and bitch about how pish the team is and moan about how whoever owns the club is making a dug's dinner out of it, that is the right paying to watch the team gives you.

In short there isn't a single Hibs fan out there who 'accepts' mediocrity, the very phrase is idiotic and insulting. Do we endure it and often have to put up with it as our club continually fails to realise it's undoubted potential in the context of it's status as one of the top 5 clubs in Scotland? .... absolutely! But accept it .... nah, no we don't.

[Hibbyradge]

Question for the many who use this phrase when things aren't going well. What does NOT accepting mediocrity mean to you?

Posting at least 90 times over the weekend saying that it's not good enough.

[WhileTheChief..]

Been answered already but i'd also add not to take it literally, it's only a throwaway line really.

One example of it, is people seeing everything through green tinted specs.... every signing is great, tipping Hibs to win every game, backing the manager when it's clear he needs to go etc etc etc.

Never thinking anything negative about the club when it's staring you in the face, that kinda thing. That's my take on it anyways.

[He's here!]

What isn't and never should be taken as a sign of 'accepting mediocrity' is continuing to turn up and support the team when it's rubbish ... that for me is the definition of what being a supporter is all about and the true measure of the quality of a club's support.

That does not mean you don't have the right to complain and bitch about how pish the team is and moan about how whoever owns the club is making a dug's dinner out of it, that is the right paying to watch the team gives you.

In short there isn't a single Hibs fan out there who 'accepts' mediocrity, the very phrase is idiotic and insulting. Do we endure it and often have to put up with it as our club continually fails to realise it's undoubted potential in the context of it's status as one of the top 5 clubs in Scotland? .... absolutely! But accept it .... nah, no we don't.

I agree with most of that but my take on it is that if the 'non acceptance' only extends as far as exercising our right as fans to complain and bitch about how poor we are then it's not going to achieve anything more than a sense of slight discomfort for the owner/manager/players. Direct action would put the frighteners on but how likely is that ever to happen? How much do we REALLY care about the rubbish we seem to be stuck with?

[Pagan Hibernia]

I hate the phrase because it implies that I have some influence over how Hibs do. And that really isn’t true.

if Hibs results were based on how much we want them to do well they’d win every week. Not one of us want Hibs to be mediocre.

[OstKurve Hibs]

More than Half the players in the squad should answer this question cos they have clearly accepted mediocrity.
Very little drive or enthusiasm with a lot of this squad, zero effort at times, especially when we goal behind and they all just collapse.
But as said by a previous poster, the fans have also accepted it and booing achieves nothing.

[He's here!]

I hate the phrase because it implies that I have some influence over how Hibs do. And that really isn’t true.

if Hibs results were based on how much we want them to do well they’d win every week. Not one of us want Hibs to be mediocre.

Is it really true we have zero influence? You don't think a more proactive demonstration of anger from the fans would put pressure on the club to come up with something more palatable than the current shambles?

[OstKurve Hibs]

Is it really true we have zero influence? You don't think a more proactive demonstration of anger from the fans would put pressure on the club to come up with something more palatable than the current shambles?

100% it would.

[Brightside]

Is it really true we have zero influence? You don't think a more proactive demonstration of anger from the fans would put pressure on the club to come up with something more palatable than the current shambles?

So you want to go and demonstrate. Really. Did you do that every other season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Been answered already but i'd also add not to take it literally, it's only a throwaway line really.

One example of it, is people seeing everything through green tinted specs.... every signing is great, tipping Hibs to win every game, backing the manager when it's clear he needs to go etc etc etc.

Never thinking anything negative about the club when it's staring you in the face, that kinda thing. That's my take on it anyways.

:agree:

And to some extent, that is accepting mediocrity.

[He's here!]

So you want to go and demonstrate. Really. Did you do that every other season.

That's not what I said. I'm saying that's what I would regard as not accepting mediocrity. At present it could be argued we're accepting worse than mediocrity, we're accepting utter rubbish.

If you don't accept something I think it's implied you would do something of note to register your non acceptance. How bad do things have to get before fans do more than just boo and moan?

[Hibiza]

Is. " accepting mediocrity" the same as a" mediocre acceptance " ?

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree with most of that but my take on it is that if the 'non acceptance' only extends as far as exercising our right as fans to complain and bitch about how poor we are then it's not going to achieve anything more than a sense of slight discomfort for the owner/manager/players. Direct action would put the frighteners on but how likely is that ever to happen? How much do we REALLY care about the rubbish we seem to be stuck with?

I am not discounting the tried and tested post match demo outside the main stand angle mate, but in order to participate in that you have to have actually been at the game.

In the end Hibs have been in a worse state than this, a far worse state in fact. Yes we are currently failing on the pitch, but there's no sign the club is in financial trouble and as long as that remains on an even keel there's always hope that we will start making the right decisions vis a vis player recruitment. It surely doesn't need a fan revolt to show the owner that things aren't working, the results should be doing that and it isn't too late for action to be taken to address things.

Ron Gordon is on his 3rd manager already, if the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results then even he has to recognise that perhaps the managers aren't the issue and what the manager is being given to work with is.

[matty_f]

That's not what I said. I'm saying that's what I would regard as not accepting mediocrity. At present it could be argued we're accepting worse than mediocrity, we're accepting utter rubbish.

If you don't accept something I think it's implied you would do something of note to register your non acceptance. How bad do things have to get before fans do more than just boo and moan?

What if the tantrums and foot stamping was contributing to the mediocrity? That the environment that created isn’t conducive to high performance, that demanding change before things have a chance to be seen through causes a state of permanent transition which in itself brings instability and mediocrity?

[OldEast]

Is. " accepting mediocrity" the same as a" mediocre acceptance " ?

Probably but that's not a phrase regularly churned out here. But you know that.

[Onion]

Question for the many who use this phrase when things aren't going well. What does NOT accepting mediocrity mean to you?

Punching your weight.

[WeeRussell]

That's not what I said. I'm saying that's what I would regard as not accepting mediocrity. At present it could be argued we're accepting worse than mediocrity, we're accepting utter rubbish.

If you don't accept something I think it's implied you would do something of note to register your non acceptance. How bad do things have to get before fans do more than just boo and moan?

What exactly is it you want hibs fans to hold-up signs and throw fruit about?

We can’t just have a protest march against being *****. We’re hardly going to walk about with signs reading “have less involvement in transfers” or “less big screens, more good midfielders.” And boycotting games because we’re on a bad run sounds like Hearts.

There can’t be that many that seriously want to force the Gordons out of hibs? That’s the sort of thing that protesting is about, and it would be foolish if we were anywhere near that right now.

[He's here!]

What exactly is it you want hibs fans to hold-up signs and throw fruit about?

We can’t just have a protest march against being *****. We’re hardly going to walk about with signs reading “have less involvement in transfers” or “less big screens, more good midfielders.” And boycotting games because we’re on a bad run sounds like Hearts.

There can’t be that many that seriously want to force the Gordons out of hibs? That’s the sort of thing that protesting is about, and it would be foolish if we were anywhere near that right now.

I don't WANT any of that. The question was what does not accepting mediocrity look like? I've given a few examples of what I think that would look like.

Re the Gordons I think plenty of fans would be happy if they sold up to someone who looked likely to do a better job when it comes to putting a structure in place that yields a football team worth paying to watch.

[Keith_M]

I agree with most of that but my take on it is that if the 'non acceptance' only extends as far as exercising our right as fans to complain and bitch about how poor we are then it's not going to achieve anything more than a sense of slight discomfort for the owner/manager/players. Direct action would put the frighteners on but how likely is that ever to happen? How much do we REALLY care about the rubbish we seem to be stuck with?


I take it you're going to be the one that starts the actions you mentioned earlier?

[WhileTheChief..]

I take it you're going to be the one that starts the actions you mentioned earlier?

Why? He's not suggesting any of that should happen, he's offering his thoughts to the OPs question.

What do you think when folk post about other Hibs fans accepting mediocrity? Does it really annoy like t does some, or are you not that fussed by it?

[He's here!]

I take it you're going to be the one that starts the actions you mentioned earlier?

See my post above. I'm just giving my answer to the OP's question.

I think the default position of most fans is just to wait it out and hope things finally improve so I doubt anyone would actually take up any of the suggestions I made to demonstrate their non-acceptance of mediocrity.

[Shrekko]

Question for the many who use this phrase when things aren't going well. What does NOT accepting mediocrity mean to you?

My guess is that the ones who "don't accept mediocrity" are the ones who flounce out the ground whenever we lose a late goal, go 2 goals down even when there's plenty of time left, or simply stop going at all whenever the going gets tough and write angrily about it on social media, trying to put the club down for any possible reason i.e. people who doing nothing but add negativity.

They'll then blame "the happy clappers" who dare to continue supporting the club emotionally and financially for the state the clubs in.

[OldEast]

My guess is that the ones who "don't accept mediocrity" are the ones who flounce out the ground whenever we lose a late goal, go 2 goals down even when there's plenty of time left, or simply stop going at all whenever the going gets tough and write angrily about it on social media, trying to put the club down for any possible reason i.e. people who doing nothing but add negativity.

They'll then blame "the happy clappers" who dare to continue supporting the club emotionally and financially for the state the clubs in.

Good post. Well said, thanks.

[oldbutdim]

What isn't and never should be taken as a sign of 'accepting mediocrity' is continuing to turn up and support the team when it's rubbish ... that for me is the definition of what being a supporter is all about and the true measure of the quality of a club's support.

That does not mean you don't have the right to complain and bitch about how pish the team is and moan about how whoever owns the club is making a dug's dinner out of it, that is the right paying to watch the team gives you.

In short there isn't a single Hibs fan out there who 'accepts' mediocrity, the very phrase is idiotic and insulting. Do we endure it and often have to put up with it as our club continually fails to realise it's undoubted potential in the context of it's status as one of the top 5 clubs in Scotland? .... absolutely! But accept it .... nah, no we don't.

Excellent.

[Hibbyradge]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

[WeeRussell]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

See if it wasn’t for your awful opinions on VAR, I think we’d get on like a house on fire 😁

Just away for a bag of otter’s noses for lunch.

[SHODAN]

The absolute minimum that Hibs should finish, based on budget, fanbase and squad strength, is 5th. In my lifetime (31 seasons), us, Aberdeen and Hearts have met that minimum expectation the following number of times:
Hibs: 10 (32%)
Hearts: 19 (61%)
Aberdeen: 16 (52%)

Aberdeen and Hearts meet minimum requirements in the league more often than not. We can't even make 1 in 3. That's mediocrity.

[leith lynx]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

You are 100% right, great post! We should always fight the good fight.

[Hibernian Verse]

The absolute minimum that Hibs should finish, based on budget, fanbase and squad strength, is 5th. In my lifetime (31 seasons), us, Aberdeen and Hearts have met that minimum expectation the following number of times:
Hibs: 10 (32%)
Hearts: 19 (61%)
Aberdeen: 16 (52%)

Aberdeen and Hearts meet minimum requirements in the league more often than not. We can't even make 1 in 3. That's mediocrity.

5/19 of Hearts top 5 finishes in mine and your lifetime were financially doped to be fair. They've also been relegated more.

[Hibbyradge]

See if it wasn’t for your awful opinions on VAR, I think we’d get on like a house on fire 😁

Just away for a bag of otter’s noses for lunch.

:hilarious

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

This :top marks

[Smartie]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

I also think that some folk have perfectionism issues, which they mistake for demanding high standards. Different things.

By that, I mean that I think we have to accept that strikers will miss chances, every player will give the ball away, wingers get tackled and occasionally get a cross wrong, defenders throughout their Hibs careers will constantly give goals away and keepers will make mistakes that lead to us losing goals. Mangers will get starting line ups wrong, make dodgy subs, recruitment teams will make signings that don't work out etc etc

The very best players, managers, backroom staff members in the history of world football have made mistakes like these.

As an example, Paul Hanlon occasionally makes mistakes that lead to goals. That doesn't mean we need to punt Hanlon - when he makes one of these mistakes he will often go months without making another. Those who don't demand his removal from the team are often accused of "accepting mediocrity". If and when the mistakes pile up, the time will come for his removal from the team. If and when we sign a player who makes less of these mistakes and who makes more of a positive contribution then the time will come for his removal from the team. Until then, there is a certain logic in keeping certain senior players together in order to maintain consistency and help breed team understanding.

Which those who constantly demand that we "don't accept mediocrity" would blow to pieces every five minutes.

Demanding high standards also involves knowing how to handle it when those standards aren't met.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

But you’re basing all of this on your perception of what people post, nothing else.

Just because you think some folk revel in our defeats doesn’t make it so. You maybe need to take a step back and accept what they are posting at face value.

The only difference between them and you is that they post their negative thoughts after a game, you don’t. But you’ve said yourself you get just as unhappy.

Why the rush from so many of you to have digs at fellow Hibs fans on here? It never used to be like this.

We now have regular posters who never offer their thoughts on anything other than to argue with fellow fans.

[Steve20]

That squad of players can only dream of mediocrity.

[matty_f]

I also think that some folk have perfectionism issues, which they mistake for demanding high standards. Different things.

By that, I mean that I think we have to accept that strikers will miss chances, every player will give the ball away, wingers get tackled and occasionally get a cross wrong, defenders throughout their Hibs careers will constantly give goals away and keepers will make mistakes that lead to us losing goals. Mangers will get starting line ups wrong, make dodgy subs, recruitment teams will make signings that don't work out etc etc

The very best players, managers, backroom staff members in the history of world football have made mistakes like these.

As an example, Paul Hanlon occasionally makes mistakes that lead to goals. That doesn't mean we need to punt Hanlon - when he makes one of these mistakes he will often go months without making another. Those who don't demand his removal from the team are often accused of "accepting mediocrity". If and when the mistakes pile up, the time will come for his removal from the team. If and when we sign a player who makes less of these mistakes and who makes more of a positive contribution then the time will come for his removal from the team. Until then, there is a certain logic in keeping certain senior players together in order to maintain consistency and help breed team understanding.

Which those who constantly demand that we "don't accept mediocrity" would blow to pieces every five minutes.

Demanding high standards also involves knowing how to handle it when those standards aren't met.

Great post, as was Hibbyradge’s. :agree:

[He's here!]

My guess is that the ones who "don't accept mediocrity" are the ones who flounce out the ground whenever we lose a late goal, go 2 goals down even when there's plenty of time left, or simply stop going at all whenever the going gets tough and write angrily about it on social media, trying to put the club down for any possible reason i.e. people who doing nothing but add negativity.

They'll then blame "the happy clappers" who dare to continue supporting the club emotionally and financially for the state the clubs in.

Nobody's demanding we win every week or even play great every week. That's not possible for any club. However, we are not (I hope) being run into the ground by a mad Vlad type or gullible buffoons like Duff and Gray. As far as I'm aware we have the infrastructure and finance in place to be doing much, much better than we are. There's no excuse IMHO for the near constant p**h we've been subjected to since the latter days of Jack Ross and this doesn't strike me as a time for fans to have to 'rally round' the club. The going should NOT be getting tough yet it continues to do so. It's not 'adding negativity' to point that out. The club, from owner down to manager and players deserve a bucketload of flak and while I don't expect pitchforks and burning torches I am quite surprised by how passive quite a lot of posters are about the situation. Continuing to shell out for watching us go down to lame defeats most weeks while simply hoping it'll come good doesn't strike me as a way of proving that as Hibs fans we don't 'accept mediocrity'.

[SHODAN]

5/19 of Hearts top 5 finishes in mine and your lifetime were financially doped to be fair. They've also been relegated more.

There wouldn't be a peep about financial doping on here if ours had been secured the exact same way.

It's in the record books, that's what counts.

[loanheadhibby]

Question for the many who use this phrase when things aren't going well. What does NOT accepting mediocrity mean to you?
I think the phrase is used by many including myself down to frustration.
Season after season we churn out pretty mediocre results.
Take this season for example, we have some tough games after the World Cup and it looks like another season scrambling about the lower end of the table.
As always hope I'm wrong.

[Hibbyradge]

But you’re basing all of this on your perception of what people post, nothing else.

Just because you think some folk revel in our defeats doesn’t make it so. You maybe need to take a step back and accept what they are posting at face value.

The only difference between them and you is that they post their negative thoughts after a game, you don’t. But you’ve said yourself you get just as unhappy.

Why the rush from so many of you to have digs at fellow Hibs fans on here? It never used to be like this.

We now have regular posters who never offer their thoughts on anything other than to argue with fellow fans.

Loads of folk get upset after defeats and sometimes they post negative stuff.

I'm referring to the people who post almost nothing but negatives and criticism.

[Unseen work]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

Well said 👏

[He's here!]

I think the phrase is used by many including myself down to frustration.
Season after season we churn out pretty mediocre results.
Take this season for example, we have some tough games after the World Cup and it looks like another season scrambling about the lower end of the table.
As always hope I'm wrong.

I also think there's a lack of identity about the team and has been for a long time now. With the number of mediocre signings floating around, the bond between fans and players is diluted. In short I find it hard to believe some of them are invested enough in playing for Hibs to dig deep and pull us out this latest mess and the more this pattern is repeated the easier it is to just become resigned to mediocrity.

Like you, I hope I'm wrong.

[Smartie]

I also think there's a lack of identity about the team and has been for a long time now. With the number of mediocre signings floating around, the bond between fans and players is diluted. In short I find it hard to believe some of them are invested enough in playing for Hibs to dig deep and pull us out this latest mess and the more this pattern is repeated the easier it is to just become resigned to mediocrity.

Like you, I hope I'm wrong.

I never really understand the "lack of identity" criticism, what does it really mean?

Is it footballing identity, as in our style of play and how we are meant to go out and win games? I'm sure Michael Stewart alluded to this earlier in the season, as if he was trying to get his head around Lee Johnson's style of football, which was arguably fair enough early in Johnson's tenure. For me though, I think it now looks obvious. He's not wedded to one formation, will shake it up from week to week and even several times within a game. He's fairly positive and likes to attack, even if he's not exactly blessed with fit, good players in the attacking department. We get players out wide and get crosses in and don't tend to take many speculative shots from distance. If we're losing he'll gamble to get back into the game, risking a bigger defeat. He's not afraid to make changes early (Rangers game) he's not afraid to stick with a winning team for a bit, he's not afraid to stick with a particular formation through a bad run, he's not afraid to drop a player (Rocky) who looked deserving of a start to change tactical approach.

In short, I think he's a flexible, horses for course manager who has done a bit of experimenting, some of which has worked and some hasn't and he largely plays on the front foot.


Or do you mean that the players lack identity or character? Even with this, does Porteous lack identity, or Boyle? I wouldn't say so. Still got a couple of cup winning legends in and around the team, do they lack character? McKirdy, is he not a bit of a character? The ever-polarising Joe Newell, he's got a bit of character about him. As for our accidental signing/ cult hero/ arguably most consistent player this season, he certainly has a bit of character.

I accept that we're a bit pish, recently we've managed to be totally pish. But I don't really get the "lack of character" criticism - or how exactly Hibs would go about changing that, improving that?

[Shrekko]

Nobody's demanding we win every week or even play great every week. That's not possible for any club. However, we are not (I hope) being run into the ground by a mad Vlad type or gullible buffoons like Duff and Gray. As far as I'm aware we have the infrastructure and finance in place to be doing much, much better than we are. There's no excuse IMHO for the near constant p**h we've been subjected to since the latter days of Jack Ross and this doesn't strike me as a time for fans to have to 'rally round' the club. The going should NOT be getting tough yet it continues to do so. It's not 'adding negativity' to point that out. The club, from owner down to manager and players deserve a bucketload of flak and while I don't expect pitchforks and burning torches I am quite surprised by how passive quite a lot of posters are about the situation. Continuing to shell out for watching us go down to lame defeats most weeks while simply hoping it'll come good doesn't strike me as a way of proving that as Hibs fans we don't 'accept mediocrity'.

So what is the answer- how do you actively prove you don't accept mediocrity?

Reading between the lines you seem to be hinting that what i guessed was right? Don't turn up.... or if you do turn up disappear as soon it looks like we might lose.... aim lots of criticism at Hibs staff?

According to some it's people who accept mediocrity that are at least partly to blame for the club under-achieving. I just want to know exactly what those who don't accept mediocrity do, and how it'll help us achieve what we should?

Mass clear-outs are generally what I see suggested by furious fans... and when has that ever helped?

[Hibbyradge]

So what is the answer- how do you actively prove you don't accept mediocrity?

Reading between the lines you seem to be hinting that what i guessed was right? Don't turn up.... or if you do turn up disappear as soon it looks like we might lose.... aim lots of criticism at Hibs staff?

According to some it's people who accept mediocrity that are at least partly to blame for the club under-achieving. I just want to know exactly what those who don't accept mediocrity do, and how it'll help us achieve what we should?

Mass clear-outs are generally what I see suggested by furious fans... and when has that ever helped?

Good points, Shrekko.

You're right, the people who dish out the phrase "accepting mediocrity" are blaming others for Hibs' lack of success and they're holding themselves above that.

I don't think anyone accepts mediocrity, in fact it's a ludicrous assertion.

It's accepting that there is two thirds of bugger all that we can do about it and that it's not worth getting too upset for too long. It's also hoping that things will improve.

If not accepting mediocrity for those fans means not going to games, while understandable, then they have no right to criticise anyone.

[Keith_M]

So what is the answer- how do you actively prove you don't accept mediocrity?

Reading between the lines you seem to be hinting that what i guessed was right? Don't turn up.... or if you do turn up disappear as soon it looks like we might lose.... aim lots of criticism at Hibs staff?

According to some it's people who accept mediocrity that are at least partly to blame for the club under-achieving. I just want to know exactly what those who don't accept mediocrity do, and how it'll help us achieve what we should?

Mass clear-outs are generally what I see suggested by furious fans... and when has that ever helped?



Aside from posting about it on here... sod all.



I attend upwards of 75% of games every season, and I'm not (yet) calling for the manager to be sacked, so presumably that means I'm accepting mediocrity as well.

I'm getting a bit p1ssed off with our lack of goals and subsequent poor results, but literally have no idea what I could possibly suggest to the club to change that... add to that the fact I have no experience of either playing or coaching in professional football, I highly doubt they would take any of my suggestions seriously anyway.

[He's here!]

I never really understand the "lack of identity" criticism, what does it really mean?

Is it footballing identity, as in our style of play and how we are meant to go out and win games? I'm sure Michael Stewart alluded to this earlier in the season, as if he was trying to get his head around Lee Johnson's style of football, which was arguably fair enough early in Johnson's tenure. For me though, I think it now looks obvious. He's not wedded to one formation, will shake it up from week to week and even several times within a game. He's fairly positive and likes to attack, even if he's not exactly blessed with fit, good players in the attacking department. We get players out wide and get crosses in and don't tend to take many speculative shots from distance. If we're losing he'll gamble to get back into the game, risking a bigger defeat. He's not afraid to make changes early (Rangers game) he's not afraid to stick with a winning team for a bit, he's not afraid to stick with a particular formation through a bad run, he's not afraid to drop a player (Rocky) who looked deserving of a start to change tactical approach.

In short, I think he's a flexible, horses for course manager who has done a bit of experimenting, some of which has worked and some hasn't and he largely plays on the front foot.


Or do you mean that the players lack identity or character? Even with this, does Porteous lack identity, or Boyle? I wouldn't say so. Still got a couple of cup winning legends in and around the team, do they lack character? McKirdy, is he not a bit of a character? The ever-polarising Joe Newell, he's got a bit of character about him. As for our accidental signing/ cult hero/ arguably most consistent player this season, he certainly has a bit of character.

I accept that we're a bit pish, recently we've managed to be totally pish. But I don't really get the "lack of character" criticism - or how exactly Hibs would go about changing that, improving that?

Yes. Not so much individual players, because as you say there are a few who have a bit of character about them. It's more the fact they don't (in my view) convey a collective sense of fighting for the cause and build a strong connection with the fans in the way strong Hibs teams do (the Scottish Cup winning team being the most obvious recent example). I think we have too many very average signings who flit in and out of the side, which dilutes a side's identity. Some may be better players than they're currently showing but there's not enough about the team which makes me think they have it in them to dig deep and fight for better results.

[He's here!]

I think there are people who subconsciously crave mediocrity and failure.

I'm sure most of us would indentify the same posters who seem to revel in our defeats and poor performances.

It's almost as if banging on and on about someone else's inadequacy makes them feel superior.

I guess I'm one of the people who get called a happy clapper, but I don't think that's an accurate term (it's certainly a very lame insult).

I get extremely disappointed when Hibs lose and I'm anything but happy when we go on a run of poor performances.

However, I live hoping that things will improve. I look for the positives and I believe that improvement and relative success will arrive in due course.

I don't think I could possibly keep following Hibs, or any other organisation/philosophy etc that I believe in, if I thought that there was no hope for them.

Things at Easter Road will definitely get better and we will have success again.

And you know I'm right.

Out of interest, what are the positives you're seeing at present? If there's something I'm missing then hopefully you can flag it up and I might feel more positive myself :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Out of interest, what are the positives you're seeing at present? If there's something I'm missing then hopefully you can flag it up and I might feel more positive myself :wink:

I look for positives doesn't mean I always find many.

However, McKirdy looked lively when he came on, Melkerson is clearly desperate to do well, Kevin Nisbet will be returning soon and we'll have the opportunity to strengthen again in a few weeks.

I hope those wee plusses lift your mood.

[He's here!]

I look for positives doesn't mean I always find many.

However, McKirdy looked lively when he came on, Melkerson is clearly desperate to do well, Kevin Nisbet will be returning soon and we'll have the opportunity to strengthen again in a few weeks.

I hope those wee plusses lift your mood.

Thanks. I live in hope. Just not convinced the 'opportunity to strengthen' has been well utilised in recent transfer windows. We seem to remain a team reliant on Martin Boyle having a good game to be in with a chance of picking up any points.

[Hibbyradge]

Thanks. I live in hope. Just not convinced the 'opportunity to strengthen' has been well utilised in recent transfer windows. We seem to remain a team reliant on Martin Boyle having a good game to be in with a chance of picking up any points.

See? I give you hope and positives, but you immediately look for the negatives.

[Smartie]

See? I give you hope and positives, but you immediately look for the negatives.

The biggest positive I can come up with is negative.

That is, that Lee Johnson can be absolutely under no illusion that this squad of players is good enough to achieve what is being asked of them. If they are to succeed there will need to be changes.

When he made his positive noises about being able to work with our current midfielders over the summer - we all knew he wasn't going to manage, and he's arguably done well to get what he has out of them.

If he has the respect of Ron Gordon he will be able to go to him and spell out exactly what he needs to ensure our second half of the season is much better than the first.

A few players back from injury will certainly help, but we need a few bodies in.

I can actually see something in positive in quite a few players who have arguably not been cutting it so far who may go on, under different circumstances, to offer a whole lot more during the second half of the season.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why is anybody taking this so seriously?

Sub-conscious cravings? Perfectionist issues? Give us a break!

A few folk throw in a phrase which you’ve said yourselves is meaningless, so what is it you’re actually asking?

Nobody has ever pointed the finger at an individual and said “you’re to blame for the mess Hibs are in because you accept mediocrity”. It just doesn’t happen.

Seems more like you guys can’t accept that some people see things, and express themselves, differently to others?

I’ve never met a Hibs fan that doesn’t want the best for the club. I’d be surprised if any of you genuinely know any that don’t feel the same way.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Why is anybody taking this so seriously?

Sub-conscious cravings? Perfectionist issues? Give us a break!

A few folk throw in a phrase which you’ve said yourselves is meaningless, so what is it you’re actually asking?

Nobody has ever pointed the finger at an individual and said “you’re to blame for the mess Hibs are in because you accept mediocrity”. It just doesn’t happen.

Seems more like you guys can’t accept that some people see things, and express themselves, differently to others?

I’ve never met a Hibs fan that doesn’t want the best for the club. I’d be surprised if any of you genuinely know any that don’t feel the same way.

Seems fair enough.

[Hibbyradge]

Why is anybody taking this so seriously?

Sub-conscious cravings? Perfectionist issues? Give us a break!

A few folk throw in a phrase which you’ve said yourselves is meaningless, so what is it you’re actually asking?

Nobody has ever pointed the finger at an individual and said “you’re to blame for the mess Hibs are in because you accept mediocrity”. It just doesn’t happen.

Seems more like you guys can’t accept that some people see things, and express themselves, differently to others?

I’ve never met a Hibs fan that doesn’t want the best for the club. I’d be surprised if any of you genuinely know any that don’t feel the same way.

Why are you taking it so seriously? :hilarious

Someone started a discussion, folk are discussing.

[WhileTheChief..]

Ok, cool. Sorry.