How do you turn it around?

[Greenio]

I think most of us know that it's too early to sack another manager and that, given the contracts in place and limited opportunities for transfers in and out, overhauling the tea with new players isn't feasible in the short term.

So, my question is, how do we stop the rot with what we've got?

How have teams that have been on the decline turned it around?

The break is coming at a good time for us .

What would you do with the team in those 4ish weeks - training wise, team building, tactics, man management etc, so that were not the same team come December?

[HibeeHibernia]

I think most of us know that it's too early to sack another manager and that, given the contracts in place and limited opportunities for transfers in and out, overhauling the tea with new players isn't feasible in the short term.

So, my question is, how do we stop the rot with what we've got?

How have teams that have been on the decline turned it around?

The break is coming at a good time for us .

What would you do with the team in those 4ish weeks - training wise, team building, tactics, man management etc, so that were not the same team come December?


we will be lucky to stay up with this current crop, we are just lucky the rest are just as bad as us lol i wouldn't know what to do with this current crop of players only a few of them are good enough to wear our top.

[Brightside]

The decline is short term. It wasn’t that long ago we were on 4 wins on the bounce. Just need to find some consistency. The panic is mental

[Northernhibee]

The way we turn it around involves Ron putting someone different in charge of the recruitment department and someone stronger than Kensell in place, and as such it'll never happen.

Director of football, a genuine, proper head scout to work alongside. Both qualified and experienced.

[Smartie]

We badly need the injured players back. There is some decent quality missing for us right now.

In terms of what we do with what we available - no idea. We're pitifully short of the standard required so the break has come at a good time for us.

We then need to scrape what we can around Christmas and get wheeling and dealing again in January.

I've not yet posted on the "team for Killie" thread but I reckon we'll need to call on at least 4 players at the weekend who I wouldn't have near a matchday squad come February or so.

[Ozyhibby]

Sign a couple of centre mids.


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[Tambo]

Sign a couple of centre mids.


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I agree with that but we already have a good few, who could we realistically let leave? I honestly think we could get some kind of deal for JDH.

I have not seen these midweek games but it sounded like we had a non-existent midfield who couldn't take the game by the scruff of the neck?

Maybe some more attacking coach's 🤔

[tonyrougier123]

It’s a hard question but we’ve rarely looked the team we’ve been promised by Johnson.
Do you give him the season based on how tight it is in both directions 3rd to 12th?
Or you do rip it up and start again?
Some players are having absolute shockers at the moment.
I feel no connection with the managers ideas,same monotonous stuff spoken then never translated to games.
We are struggling against the strugglers and it’s just not looking great at all.

[MWHIBBIES]

Really support the side. That's all we can do. Get behind them, don't start groaning when they make a square pass.

Need to clear out a few in January and bring in ones who compliment the quality players like Newell and Boyle that we have.

[JimBHibees]

The decline is short term. It wasn’t that long ago we were on 4 wins on the bounce. Just need to find some consistency. The panic is mental

Totally agree of course we are on a poor run but the hysterical reaction to it is ridiculous imo.

[GonzoReturns]

We are easy to play against, to predictable teams know that if they defend deep against us we run out of ideas. He needs to change approach make us stronger defensively - a boring nil nil at this stage wouldn’t be a bad thing. We know we have quality out injured/World Cup - big players for us in key positions. The key priority has to be a decent midfielder and centre half if they aren’t going to play Fish and move on some of the summer experiments.

[The Spaceman]

Our recent losses against Celtic, Aberdeen and Ross County really stick in the throat.

However, outside of those performances, we’ve actually been generally good this league season/unlucky to pick up losses elsewhere and still remain in the race for Europe as things stand.

We show a lot of threat but without that final cutting edge/an inability to convert the stats into results. Nisbet I think will work well in our new system, but I’m gutted Magennis looks like he’s out as he was our main missing piece. McGeady might be able to fill that gap between the midfield and the strikers/wingers, but I’m not 100% convinced. A top CAM should be our priority in January.

[Trinity Hibee]

Really support the side. That's all we can do. Get behind them, don't start groaning when they make a square pass.

Need to clear out a few in January and bring in ones who compliment the quality players like Newell and Boyle that we have.

Folk will groan when what they are witnessing is below expectations so yet again don’t put any of this on the fans. It’s strictly on players and management

[chippy]

Sign a couple of centre mids.


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You’ve been proved right again. Major error made by last 4 managers and cost 3 their jobs

[GreenCastle]

Sign a Devlin type midfielder and a number 10.

Someone who runs non stop and wins the ball back for us.

A play maker to unlock teams that sit deep.

Also we need experience, leadership and a left footed winger.

Myko has shown how important he can be when he’s not on the pitch so either get a similar player or hope Nisbet is back but if we are getting crosses into the box we need someone good in air. We need a finisher in the box.

In reality we may move a few out and get a couple loans in who aren’t getting a game somewhere else.

[MWHIBBIES]

Folk will groan when what they are witnessing is below expectations so yet again don’t put any of this on the fans. It’s strictly on players and management

Foak should learn how football actually works before groaning. Maintaining possession and looking for an opening and something all sides so.

Fans are gearing up to hound out another manager. It's pathetic.

[blackpoolhibs]

Foak should learn how football actually works before groaning. Maintaining possession and looking for an opening and something all sides so.

Fans are gearing up to hound out another manager. It's pathetic.

Yip, fans no nothing, and i include you in that.

[jeffers]

Foak should learn how football actually works before groaning. Maintaining possession and looking for an opening and something all sides so.

Fans are gearing up to hound out another manager. It's pathetic.

How often do managers we sack go on to better things ? Heckingbottom is doing well at Sheffield Utd, but few were disappointed when he left us. Maybe if we appointed better managers in the first place we’d not hound them out. What we are now seeing from Johnson is exactly the same things fans of his other clubs warned us about.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yip, fans no nothing, and i include you in that.

Was this supposed to hurt me? Compared to players and management, of course I know nothing. I don't pretend otherwise.

[LeithMike]

Sign a couple of centre mids.


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Short-term - absolutely this. Some mobile midfielders who can do a bit of everything, run and break the lines and help both the defence and attack out in transition.

Quite possibly the best option is bringing back Delferriere and Tait and giving them a run in conjunction with Magennis and Campbell. Not sure we would be otherwise signing the right players.

Long-term - not sure. Don’t think the manager should be replaced but given the lack of direction from those at the top, I think we really need a really strong manager to take control of the club and bring everything together. Don’t see that happening though.


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[flash]

How often do managers we sack go on to better things ? Heckingbottom is doing well at Sheffield Utd, but few were disappointed when he left us. Maybe if we appointed better managers in the first place we’d not hound them out. What we are now seeing from Johnson is exactly the same things fans of his other clubs warned us about.

The problem is we aren't going to get a manager who is doing really well at his current club unless we look down the way and folk don't want that either.

[Smartie]

Totally agree of course we are on a poor run but the hysterical reaction to it is ridiculous imo.

Tuesday may have tipped a balance.

It was an abject performance, devoid of anything really to be optimistic about (maybe apart from Rocky continuing his recent run of good performances).

Prior to that I think it was quite easy to point at positives and produce reasons why we’re a decent team having a poor run rather than a poor team who had a lucky streak.

It’ll probably continue to be a bit dramatic until we play well again - hopefully Saturday.

[Smartie]

Sign a Devlin type midfielder and a number 10.

Someone who runs non stop and wins the ball back for us.

A play maker to unlock teams that sit deep.

Also we need experience, leadership and a left footed winger.

Myko has shown how important he can be when he’s not on the pitch so either get a similar player or hope Nisbet is back but if we are getting crosses into the box we need someone good in air. We need a finisher in the box.

In reality we may move a few out and get a couple loans in who aren’t getting a game somewhere else.

Is Kenneh not the guy who runs non stop and wins the ball back for us?

When I watch him I’m surprised how sloppy he can be at times but often genuinely impressed by how often he makes up for his mistakes.


Totally accept the number 10 part though. You’d like to think Magennis could be that guy but I can’t see him ever being anything other than unpredictable. We’re badly missing some quality in that position and I’m afraid Henderson just doesn’t have the required quality.

And if we’re to play 433 I think we need more quality on the left and more depth on the right of Myko. With Boyle and McGeady out we’re very weak in these positions and I don’t think a team with our aspirations can afford to be as weak as we are in potentially 3 of our 4 predominantly attacking positions.

[jeffers]

The problem is we aren't going to get a manager who is doing really well at his current club unless we look down the way and folk don't want that either.

Let’s face it, with maybe the odd exception we have zero say in it as fans who the club appoint. It’s up to those in charge to get it right and if that manager does a good job we will get behind them.

[Key West]

In my humble opinion in order to turn it around LJ has to review the situation sooner rather than later, in the short space of time he's been in charge I don't think there's been a massive improvement, he needs to find a formation and style that gets us results and create a template for progress, this is not a slur but most of the players are average, this could be applicable to most of the teams in the SPL and until we see an upgrade in quality things will remain the same, I do think he needs time to figure things out though and hopefully that will be the case, there'd nothing wrong with his ideology or philosophy, in the meantime he has to get the very best out of what he has got.

[MWHIBBIES]

Let’s face it, with maybe the odd exception we have zero say in it as fans who the club appoint. It’s up to those in charge to get it right and if that manager does a good job we will get behind them.

So he must prove himself able, consistently, for us to get behind him? If he has a bad run, he is then unable and must go?

[Trinity Hibee]

So he must prove himself able, consistently, for us to get behind him? If he has a bad run, he is then unable and must go?

Attendances this season have been very good as have ST sales which suggest people are backing the manager or were up until recently and that’s after a really poor league cup showing. The last month it has started to turn as the results have got worse. I can fully understand why folk felt/feel the way the do this week but once the WC break comes and it allows us to take stock I think it may help calm the panic down.

[jeffers]

So he must prove himself able, consistently, for us to get behind him? If he has a bad run, he is then unable and must go?

Pretty much every manager goes on bad runs, it’s all about context. Some will think there have been significant improvement under Johnson and believe he deserves the chance to turn things round. Others will look at his record under us, his baffling decisions, the pish he comes out with and think he doesn’t. His record isn’t much better than Maloney’s and he’s had Boyle available to him the majority of games, something Maloney never had.

[Paulie Walnuts]

With this squad of players I’m not sure you can.

So to turn it round we need 2 or 3 good signings, guys who will walk into the starting 11. I don’t have any confidence in that happening.

[BoomtownHibees]

Was this supposed to hurt me? Compared to players and management, of course I know nothing. I don't pretend otherwise.

Self reflection not a strong point?

[Hibee Daft]

I noticed on my FM23 save Kenneh can play centerback.

Kenneh and Rocky at the back would be some foundation.

Maybe he cant play there tho as fm23 is just a game 😆

[marinello59]

Personally?
I may dig out the lucky pants I wore during the 2016 cup run. You can all thank me when we qualify for Europe this season.

[number9dream]

With this squad of players I’m not sure you can.

So to turn it round we need 2 or 3 good signings, guys who will walk into the starting 11. I don’t have any confidence in that happening.

Aye. We really need to clear out about 7-8 from our bloated squad and bring in 3, but that’s going to be very difficult given the current situation with so many long contracts for so many average players.

[Pretty Boy]

3 things jump out for me.

The 1st is we need to sign 2 or 3 players proven at this level in January. The league is a mire of mediocrity, with the exception of 2 teams no one is too good to get dragged into a dogfight at the wrong end of the table, on the flip side with a couple of exceptions again no one is out of the race for 3rd or 4th either. A couple of above average players could see us not only put any talk or relegation battles to bed but also kick on and take advantage of the group stage opportunities available. January isn't a good window to sign players but if we have to pay a bit over the odds then fine or if we have to look at pre contracts then forcing a teams hand then also fine. I always find there to be a certain irony when people trot out the 'I'd rather take a punt than sign more dross from St Mirren or League 1' line. Firstly our most successful signing in terms of impact on the park, value for money and sell on value in about 3 decades came fromn St Mirren. Secondly the 4 players we want to see fit and are investing all our hopes in were signed from St Mirren, Dunfermilne, Dundee and Sunderland respectively. The only indisputable success from our summer activity came from QPR (who meet none of the criteria mentioned but were bang in the middle of the sludge of a Championship). We've done the punts, none of them have really hit the ground running, a couple look like there might be reason to persist with them and some look totally out their depth. It's time for a bit of pragmatism and that means proven players.

Secondly we need someone to oversee the football department. Without raking over old ground about who does what in the recruitment department there is surely near universal agreement that it hasn't been anywhere near good enough. We have signed 20+ players since last January and a handful have made any sort of positive impact in the 1st team. There is plenty of criticism that can be leveled at LJ tactically but looking at what he had available on Tuesday what would anyone really have done differently? Mitchell was a brain fart, a guy just back from injury, just recovering from illness and with a partner on the verge of giving birth sounds about the least ideal person to start a football match imaginable. Beyond that though there was very little on the bench that you can say 'aye they were the answer'. Melkerson was being put forward as the answer last week, this week it's Tavares, it's desperation stuff. I look at the teams put forward on the thread about the Killie game and I wonder how many people would say they were confident of any of them getting a result. There's a real lack of quality, particularly in the attacking areas. That's in spite of us having brought in a rake of nominally attacking options. The litmus test of any squad is surely when you have a couple of options unavailable, football management would be easy if you had your best 11 every week. We don't have that strength in depth and there's plenty evidence to prove it. Nothing Hibs are doing is radical or new. 'Players pathways', 'structured loans' etc have been done at other clubs and indeed Hibs for years. An experienced Director of Football or whatever you want to call it isn't being asked to reinvent the wheel. It needs someone to manage it and someone to ensure there is a structure and a balance to our signings. The last part is quite clearly lacking.

The 3rd point is we need to stick with the manager. He's up against it just now but I'm not convinced he's in a fair fight right now. He's working with a poor squad further impacted by injury. I'd even be willing to write off the rest of the season if he doesn't get the players he needs and we are comfortably clear of real trouble. I'd rather not of course for the reasons in my 1st paragraph but I'm not sure i see that happening, I like Johnson and I'd hope another bottom 6 finish would finally focus some minds in the summer and give him a fresh start next year. I'm not pinning too much hope on Nisbet, he's been out a long time and we saw with Doidge how that can impact a striker (or any player really). If we get half a dozen starts and 2 or 3 goals from him I think we'll have done well. This season hasn't been a complete transformation when compared to last season but until fairly recently it was better. Johnson is a manager who seems to at least acknowledge football is a form of entertainment, which is an upgrade on his 2 predecessors. As it stands I think he deserves time in a way that someone like Maloney didn't.

I'm aware that I'm moaning all the time lately but it isn't borne of a desire to be negative. There's been a general downward trend since we finished 3rd and there has to be a reason for that. We can't just say it's bad luck or say we should just shut up and support. Questioning and criticising those running the club is healthy imo when done in a broadly respectful manner. The club feels listless and maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't see it being a game or a 4 week break away from clicking. If anything we have regressed a bit since the heady heights of my optimism in August and September. This is a bad run but bad runs have characterised us for too long in recent times. In terms of league form LLLLLWLDL saw Ross sacked, WWLDLDLLWDDDLDL was the entirety of Maloney's reign and Johnson had had a DLDL and a LLLWLL already. That isn't coincidence. We need an overhaul, we need someone heading up the football side with real power and a pragmatic, even boring approach to signings to get things stabilised and slowly turning in the right direction.

[Unseen work]

Back to basics.

433.

Win the ball back quickly in their half and play with a high intensity on the ball.

[Brightside]

Folk will groan when what they are witnessing is below expectations so yet again don’t put any of this on the fans. It’s strictly on players and management

Maybe the expectations are too high. We are really no different to any other season.

[Key West]

3 things jump out for me.

The 1st is we need to sign 2 or 3 players proven at this level in January. The league is a mire of mediocrity, with the exception of 2 teams no one is too good to get dragged into a dogfight at the wrong end of the table, on the flip side with a couple of exceptions again no one is out of the race for 3rd or 4th either. A couple of above average players could see us not only put any talk or relegation battles to bed but also kick on and take advantage of the group stage opportunities available. January isn't a good window to sign players but if we have to pay a bit over the odds then fine or if we have to look at pre contracts then forcing a teams hand then also fine. I always find there to be a certain irony when people trot out the 'I'd rather take a punt than sign more dross from St Mirren or League 1' line. Firstly our most successful signing in terms of impact on the park, value for money and sell on value in about 3 decades came fromn St Mirren. Secondly the 4 players we want to see fit and are investing all our hopes in were signed from St Mirren, Dunfermilne, Dundee and Sunderland respectively. The only indisputable success from our summer activity came from QPR (who meet none of the criteria mentioned but were bang in the middle of the sludge of a Championship). We've done the punts, none of them have really hit the ground running, a couple look like there might be reason to persist with them and some look totally out their depth. It's time for a bit of pragmatism and that means proven players.

Secondly we need someone to oversee the football department. Without raking over old ground about who does what in the recruitment department there is surely near universal agreement that it hasn't been anywhere near good enough. We have signed 20+ players since last January and a handful have made any sort of positive impact in the 1st team. There is plenty of criticism that can be leveled at LJ tactically but looking at what he had available on Tuesday what would anyone really have done differently? Mitchell was a brain fart, a guy just back from injury, just recovering from illness and with a partner on the verge of giving birth sounds about the least ideal person to start a football match imaginable. Beyond that though there was very little on the bench that you can say 'aye they were the answer'. Melkerson was being put forward as the answer last week, this week it's Tavares, it's desperation stuff. I look at the teams put forward on the thread about the Killie game and I wonder how many people would say they were confident of any of them getting a result. There's a real lack of quality, particularly in the attacking areas. That's in spite of us having brought in a rake of nominally attacking options. The litmus test of any squad is surely when you have a couple of options unavailable, football management would be easy if you had your best 11 every week. We don't have that strength in depth and there's plenty evidence to prove it. Nothing Hibs are doing is radical or new. 'Players pathways', 'structured loans' etc have been done at other clubs and indeed Hibs for years. An experienced Director of Football or whatever you want to call it isn't being asked to reinvent the wheel. It needs someone to manage it and someone to ensure there is a structure and a balance to our signings. The last part is quite clearly lacking.

The 3rd point is we need to stick with the manager. He's up against it just now but I'm not convinced he's in a fair fight right now. He's working with a poor squad further impacted by injury. I'd even be willing to write off the rest of the season if he doesn't get the players he needs and we are comfortably clear of real trouble. I'd rather not of course for the reasons in my 1st paragraph but I'm not sure i see that happening, I like Johnson and I'd hope another bottom 6 finish would finally focus some minds in the summer and give him a fresh start next year. I'm not pinning too much hope on Nisbet, he's been out a long time and we saw with Doidge how that can impact a striker (or any player really). If we get half a dozen starts and 2 or 3 goals from him I think we'll have done well. This season hasn't been a complete transformation when compared to last season but until fairly recently it was better. Johnson is a manager who seems to at least acknowledge football is a form of entertainment, which is an upgrade on his 2 predecessors.

I'm aware that I'm moaning all the time lately but it isn't borne of a desire to be negative. There's been a general downward trend since we finished 3rd and there has to be a reason for that. The club feels listless and maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't see it being a game or a 4 week break away from clicking. If anything we have regressed a bit since the heady heights of my optimism in August and September. This is a bad run but bad runs have characterised us for too long in recent times. In terms of league form LLLLLWLDL saw Ross sacked, WWLDLDLLWDDDLDL was the entirety of Maloney's reign and Johnson had had a DLDL and a LLLWLL already. That isn't coincidence. We need an overhaul, we need someone heading up the football side with real power and a pragmatic, even boring approach to signings to get things stabilised and slowly turning in the right direction.

Brilliant post, just about covers everything from a fan point of view. Since the SPL started our average top 6 finish is 6th, the problems in maintaining any kind of consistency have been around that long.In relative terms Motherwell, St Johnstone and Dundee United have fated better.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Secondly we need someone to oversee the football department. Without raking over old ground about who does what in the recruitment department there is surely near universal agreement that it hasn't been anywhere near good enough. We have signed 20+ players since last January and a handful have made any sort of positive impact in the 1st team. There is plenty of criticism that can be leveled at LJ tactically but looking at what he had available on Tuesday what would anyone really have done differently? Mitchell was a brain fart, a guy just back from injury, just recovering from illness and with a partner on the verge of giving birth sounds about the least ideal person to start a football match imaginable. Beyond that though there was very little on the bench that you can say 'aye they were the answer'. Melkerson was being put forward as the answer last week, this week it's Tavares, it's desperation stuff. I look at the teams put forward on the thread about the Killie game and I wonder how many people would say they were confident of any of them getting a result. There's a real lack of quality, particularly in the attacking areas. That's in spite of us having brought in a rake of nominally attacking options. The litmus test of any squad is surely when you have a couple of options unavailable, football management would be easy if you had your best 11 every week. We don't have that strength in depth and there's plenty evidence to prove it. Nothing Hibs are doing is radical or new. 'Players pathways', 'structured loans' etc have been done at other clubs and indeed Hibs for years. An experienced Director of Football or whatever you want to call it isn't being asked to reinvent the wheel. It needs someone to manage it and someone to ensure there is a structure and a balance to our signings. The last part is quite clearly lacking.


I’ve mentioned this point a few times and I mentioned it last season under Maloney as well.

For all the criticism of Johnson and previously Maloney, I always feel like nobody ever had a viable alternative as to what they should have been doing differently

The threads before games where people are picking teams just now aren’t any better than what’s out on the pitch, which also isn’t good enough, simply because there isn’t enough talent within the club.

It was the same last season under Maloney. People absolutely slaughtered him, slaughtered his team selections and then came on here and posted that they’d play a team with James Scott through the middle, Jasper and Melkersen out wide and Henderson in the 10 with Stevenson centre mid. Again, these teams were horrific and it’s because the talent wasn’t there.

For the last year or so there simply hasn’t been a really good starting 11 available because we don’t have the players at the club to do it and haven’t for a while now.

I typed out my team for the Killie game (I can’t actually remember if I posted it) and when I actually looked at it I seen about 4 or 5 players who in reality I don’t think are nearly good enough to play for a Hibs side wanting 3rd place. That says it all about what our managers are being given to work with.

[Key West]

Fared not fated! Bloody texting.

[hibsforeurope]

Under the current set up i don't think we do/can turn things around. reading the comments it suggests new, better quality players are needed. we've signed the best part of 30 players since Mathie was sacked and apart form Marshall have we really signed anyone of the required standard that we can build upon? the first change we need is structural behind the scenes, until that happens it will be groundhog day.

[Fergus52]

Back to basics.

433.

Win the ball back quickly in their half and play with a high intensity on the ball.

Do this, get Nisbet fit and sharp over the break, sign a creative player with a bit of unpredictability and flair (doesn't matter if its a no. 10 or a winger), and sign a proven quality CB if Porteous leaves.

Couple of big IFs there, but if we can do all that we should still be competing for third come the end of the season. We've been poor recently but Aberdeen and Hearts are no great shakes.

[B.H.F.C]

Short term, get back to what has worked this season. Manager needs to be stronger and make some big decisions on who starts, I don’t think he’s done that with his last two team selections.

Longer term, fix the very apparent issues that continue to hinder us. Until we do that, it’ll be more of the same.

[Chorley Hibee]

Maybe the expectations are too high. We are really no different to any other season.

That's not an indication that expectations are too high, it's a sad indictment of how long we've been underachieving.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That's not an indication that expectations are too high, it's a sad indictment of how long we've been underachieving.

:agree:

The day that being better than the majority of the ***** in our league means our expectations are too high will be the day we should just pack it in.

[Brightside]

:agree:

The day that being better than the majority of the ***** in our league means our expectations are too high will be the day we should just pack it in.

Or just realism. We are just the same as we’ve ever been. A few weeks good a few weeks ****.

[One Day Soon]

3 things jump out for me.

The 1st is we need to sign 2 or 3 players proven at this level in January. The league is a mire of mediocrity, with the exception of 2 teams no one is too good to get dragged into a dogfight at the wrong end of the table, on the flip side with a couple of exceptions again no one is out of the race for 3rd or 4th either. A couple of above average players could see us not only put any talk or relegation battles to bed but also kick on and take advantage of the group stage opportunities available. January isn't a good window to sign players but if we have to pay a bit over the odds then fine or if we have to look at pre contracts then forcing a teams hand then also fine. I always find there to be a certain irony when people trot out the 'I'd rather take a punt than sign more dross from St Mirren or League 1' line. Firstly our most successful signing in terms of impact on the park, value for money and sell on value in about 3 decades came fromn St Mirren. Secondly the 4 players we want to see fit and are investing all our hopes in were signed from St Mirren, Dunfermilne, Dundee and Sunderland respectively. The only indisputable success from our summer activity came from QPR (who meet none of the criteria mentioned but were bang in the middle of the sludge of a Championship). We've done the punts, none of them have really hit the ground running, a couple look like there might be reason to persist with them and some look totally out their depth. It's time for a bit of pragmatism and that means proven players.

Secondly we need someone to oversee the football department. Without raking over old ground about who does what in the recruitment department there is surely near universal agreement that it hasn't been anywhere near good enough. We have signed 20+ players since last January and a handful have made any sort of positive impact in the 1st team. There is plenty of criticism that can be leveled at LJ tactically but looking at what he had available on Tuesday what would anyone really have done differently? Mitchell was a brain fart, a guy just back from injury, just recovering from illness and with a partner on the verge of giving birth sounds about the least ideal person to start a football match imaginable. Beyond that though there was very little on the bench that you can say 'aye they were the answer'. Melkerson was being put forward as the answer last week, this week it's Tavares, it's desperation stuff. I look at the teams put forward on the thread about the Killie game and I wonder how many people would say they were confident of any of them getting a result. There's a real lack of quality, particularly in the attacking areas. That's in spite of us having brought in a rake of nominally attacking options. The litmus test of any squad is surely when you have a couple of options unavailable, football management would be easy if you had your best 11 every week. We don't have that strength in depth and there's plenty evidence to prove it. Nothing Hibs are doing is radical or new. 'Players pathways', 'structured loans' etc have been done at other clubs and indeed Hibs for years. An experienced Director of Football or whatever you want to call it isn't being asked to reinvent the wheel. It needs someone to manage it and someone to ensure there is a structure and a balance to our signings. The last part is quite clearly lacking.

The 3rd point is we need to stick with the manager. He's up against it just now but I'm not convinced he's in a fair fight right now. He's working with a poor squad further impacted by injury. I'd even be willing to write off the rest of the season if he doesn't get the players he needs and we are comfortably clear of real trouble. I'd rather not of course for the reasons in my 1st paragraph but I'm not sure i see that happening, I like Johnson and I'd hope another bottom 6 finish would finally focus some minds in the summer and give him a fresh start next year. I'm not pinning too much hope on Nisbet, he's been out a long time and we saw with Doidge how that can impact a striker (or any player really). If we get half a dozen starts and 2 or 3 goals from him I think we'll have done well. This season hasn't been a complete transformation when compared to last season but until fairly recently it was better. Johnson is a manager who seems to at least acknowledge football is a form of entertainment, which is an upgrade on his 2 predecessors. As it stands I think he deserves time in a way that someone like Maloney didn't.

I'm aware that I'm moaning all the time lately but it isn't borne of a desire to be negative. There's been a general downward trend since we finished 3rd and there has to be a reason for that. We can't just say it's bad luck or say we should just shut up and support. Questioning and criticising those running the club is healthy imo when done in a broadly respectful manner. The club feels listless and maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't see it being a game or a 4 week break away from clicking. If anything we have regressed a bit since the heady heights of my optimism in August and September. This is a bad run but bad runs have characterised us for too long in recent times. In terms of league form LLLLLWLDL saw Ross sacked, WWLDLDLLWDDDLDL was the entirety of Maloney's reign and Johnson had had a DLDL and a LLLWLL already. That isn't coincidence. We need an overhaul, we need someone heading up the football side with real power and a pragmatic, even boring approach to signings to get things stabilised and slowly turning in the right direction.


Really excellent post. Getting someone with authority at the club to read it, understand it and implement it is the trick.

In a nutshell, this manager cannot succeed with this squad. To change that we need to start by making some good signings in January and next summer. The only way we can do that is by having experienced people who know what they are doing and how to do it leading the signings strategy. I'm afraid if the present set up and core individuals remain in place with their prevailing approach then we are stuffed.

The OP asked how you turn it around at this point. The manager can do nothing but what he's been doing throughout the season so far - that is to keep his fingers crossed and say his prayers that McGeady, Magennis and Nisbet can firstly get fit, secondly stay fit and thirdly somehow be players at the very top of their potential week in and week out. There is no other option because the rest of what we have is simply either not good enough or not going to be good enough in time for this season.

None of this should be a surprise. Our signings over the summer were scatter gun, intended to make money over the medium term rather than stabilise the team in the short term and plainly ignored our most glaring weaknesses which have been evident for literally years. In football terms I'm not sure the key people could spell the word strategy even if you supplied them with the two vowels and six consonants required.

[matty_f]

The decline is short term. It wasn’t that long ago we were on 4 wins on the bounce. Just need to find some consistency. The panic is mental

And there were folk saying well done to the recruitment team.

[B.H.F.C]

Or just realism. We are just the same as we’ve ever been. A few weeks good a few weeks ****.

We’ve got advantages now that we’ve not always had. We’re spending much more now. We’ve got training facilities that most of the league don’t have. It’s only since we won the cup that we’ve had the number of season ticket holders we do these days (that season we were regularly playing to 8-9k).

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to regularly beat the majority of the teams in the league. Not win every single week, not challenge the big two, not win a trophy every year. Just do what we should do with all those advantages we have over more than half of the league.

[matty_f]

We’ve got advantages now that we’ve not always had. We’re spending much more now. We’ve got training facilities that most of the league don’t have. It’s only since we won the cup that we’ve had the number of season ticket holders we do these days (that season we were regularly playing to 8-9k).

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to regularly beat the majority of the teams in the league. Not win every single week, not challenge the big two, not win a trophy every year. Just do what we should do with all those advantages we have over more than half of the league.

Spot on.

[Trinity Hibee]

We’ve got advantages now that we’ve not always had. We’re spending much more now. We’ve got training facilities that most of the league don’t have. It’s only since we won the cup that we’ve had the number of season ticket holders we do these days (that season we were regularly playing to 8-9k).

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to regularly beat the majority of the teams in the league. Not win every single week, not challenge the big two, not win a trophy every year. Just do what we should do with all those advantages we have over more than half of the league.

That’s it for me. We’ve got financial advantages over many clubs in the league and it’s the same excuse we use for never challenging the OF

[Brightside]

We’ve got advantages now that we’ve not always had. We’re spending much more now. We’ve got training facilities that most of the league don’t have. It’s only since we won the cup that we’ve had the number of season ticket holders we do these days (that season we were regularly playing to 8-9k).

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to regularly beat the majority of the teams in the league. Not win every single week, not challenge the big two, not win a trophy every year. Just do what we should do with all those advantages we have over more than half of the league.

I’d like all that. I’m just not surprised when it doesn’t happen.

[H18 SFR]

I think most of us know that it's too early to sack another manager and that, given the contracts in place and limited opportunities for transfers in and out, overhauling the tea with new players isn't feasible in the short term.

So, my question is, how do we stop the rot with what we've got?

How have teams that have been on the decline turned it around?

The break is coming at a good time for us .

What would you do with the team in those 4ish weeks - training wise, team building, tactics, man management etc, so that were not the same team come December?

Supporters fully back the team.

Players work harder than ever.

Management team learn from the disappointments.

Trim the squad.

[WhileTheChief..]

Bin Kensall and Iain Gordon.

Bring in Lennon or someone else with knowledge of the Scottish game and give them full control over who we sign or sell, then start from scratch .

[WhileTheChief..]

And there were folk saying well done to the recruitment team.

Mental innit.

They were clearly on the wind-up.

[MWHIBBIES]

Bin Kensall and Iain Gordon.

Bring in Lennon or someone else with knowledge of the Scottish game and give them full control over who we sign or sell, then start from scratch .

Lennon is ****ing gash at signing players, surely even his biggest fans can see that?

[Smartie]

A lot is (correctly) made of Ian Gordon having a role but who else is on the recruitment "team"?

Does Kevin Harper not have a scouting role?

I know the manager has a say in players coming in but I'd expect there to be a good few more people involved.

It just seems that Ian Gordon seems to carry the can (again, probably correctly if he is heading it up) for what is probably the work of a few people. And some of us might have a bit more confidence in the whole operation if there were recognised "fitba people" in there.

I'm critical of it (mainly because it clearly isn't bearing fruit and we've had too many recent transfer windows that have failed to address what is actually required) but would probably be lying if I said I knew exactly what was going on.

[Trinity Hibee]

2-3 loans/signings are an absolute must for the 2nd half of season. Not a huge fan of loans but it’s probably the likely option in Jan window. A CB and 2 CMs preferably who will improve the first 11. Gives Johnson time over next summer to really get the deadwood moved on. Will need some of the current squad to leave/ go out on loan in Jan

[Hibbyradge]

Bin Kensall and Iain Gordon.

Bring in Lennon or someone else with knowledge of the Scottish game and give them full control over who we sign or sell, then start from scratch .

The idea that one individual should know every player that's available for us to sign us ridiculous. It's impossible.

How can that be better than a specialist team looking at players around the globe?

It's easy to criticise signings as supposed proof that our current system isn't working, but if identifying players was left to one individual, we'd be criticising just as much, if not more.

The recruitment team look for players in the positions that the manager wants. They identify them and discuss them with the manager. If they suit his plan, they try to recruit them.

Why would employing Lennon, or anyone else, improve, or even change, that process?

Unless we're saying that Lennon would decide on our signings and that the manager has no say in the mstter...

[matty_f]

Mental innit.

They were clearly on the wind-up.

Or perhaps folk should give it time instead of bending their views with the wind and going from one extreme to the other (that’s for those that are able to detach themselves from their day one opinion as the evidence builds to support a solid opinion).

[matty_f]

A lot is (correctly) made of Ian Gordon having a role but who else is on the recruitment "team"?

Does Kevin Harper not have a scouting role?

I know the manager has a say in players coming in but I'd expect there to be a good few more people involved.

It just seems that Ian Gordon seems to carry the can (again, probably correctly if he is heading it up) for what is probably the work of a few people. And some of us might have a bit more confidence in the whole operation if there were recognised "fitba people" in there.

I'm critical of it (mainly because it clearly isn't bearing fruit and we've had too many recent transfer windows that have failed to address what is actually required) but would probably be lying if I said I knew exactly what was going on.
Calvin Charlton is head of performance and recruitment analysis, so i would think he’s heavily involved.

[Hibbyradge]

Or perhaps folk should give it time instead of bending their views with the wind and going from one extreme to the other (that’s for those that are able to detach themselves from their day one opinion as the evidence builds to support a solid opinion).

:faf: :faf:

Man, if that longbangers thing is anywhere as funny as you, I'll be subscribing.

"Give it time" 'kin hilarious.

[Pretty Boy]

A lot is (correctly) made of Ian Gordon having a role but who else is on the recruitment "team"?

Does Kevin Harper not have a scouting role?

I know the manager has a say in players coming in but I'd expect there to be a good few more people involved.

It just seems that Ian Gordon seems to carry the can (again, probably correctly if he is heading it up) for what is probably the work of a few people. And some of us might have a bit more confidence in the whole operation if there were recognised "fitba people" in there.

I'm critical of it (mainly because it clearly isn't bearing fruit and we've had too many recent transfer windows that have failed to address what is actually required) but would probably be lying if I said I knew exactly what was going on.

I think the perceived cloak and dagger nature to the appointment of Gordon Jnr didn't do him any favours. Added to the club directory as Head of Recruitment, a bit of social media noise about it, removed from the directory, Kensell was directly challenged on it at least twice and didn't really give a full answer on his role beyond saying he had been about for a while, added back to the club directory, a PR piece appeared from a friendly journo then Gordon Snr made his comments about his qualities and gave the impression he was viewed, by him at least, as more than just an administrator.

People can call it nepotism, they can say it's dodgy or they can say it's entirely innocent but it's a bit of a bizarre situation. At a club like Hibs recruitment is so, so important as it's the difference between consistency and relative success or disaster, we don't have a huge middle ground at clubs like ourselves, Hearts and Aberdeen. We have a committee (which is fine and all very modern) but heading it up, implementing the structure etc etc is a guy who is a rookie in the business of professional football and more than that has no real knowledge or experience of Scottish football at all. We don't necessarily need someone who has done the same role previously but a broad knowledge of the marketplace and the business is surely a key requirement? If this season continues down the path of the last few games then there will be multiple people to blame but ultimately the head coach/football manager will be the one who pays with his job. If recruitment is failing then there is more than one person responsible but ultimately the man heading the department is going to take a fair amount of the flak and that's fair enough imo.

[matty_f]

:faf: :faf:

Man, if that longbangers thing is anywhere as funny as you, I'll be subscribing.

"Give it time" 'kin hilarious.

I’m here all week :greengrin

[Fergus52]

That’s it for me. We’ve got financial advantages over many clubs in the league and it’s the same excuse we use for never challenging the OF

The financial gap between us and St Mirren is about ten times smaller than the financial gap between us and Celtic.

[matty_f]

The financial gap between us and St Mirren is about ten times smaller than the financial gap between us and Celtic.

But still significant enough that it should be making a consistent difference, imho.

Add in the advantages of an excellent training centre, top end analysis tools etc on top of the bigger playing budget and we should be hammering home that advantage regularly.

[JimBHibees]

A lot is (correctly) made of Ian Gordon having a role but who else is on the recruitment "team"?

Does Kevin Harper not have a scouting role?

I know the manager has a say in players coming in but I'd expect there to be a good few more people involved.

It just seems that Ian Gordon seems to carry the can (again, probably correctly if he is heading it up) for what is probably the work of a few people. And some of us might have a bit more confidence in the whole operation if there were recognised "fitba people" in there.

I'm critical of it (mainly because it clearly isn't bearing fruit and we've had too many recent transfer windows that have failed to address what is actually required) but would probably be lying if I said I knew exactly what was going on.

Yep easy target. Sure he was getting praised when we were on our four game winning run. :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

But still significant enough that it should be making a consistent difference, imho.

Add in the advantages of an excellent training centre, top end analysis tools etc on top of the bigger playing budget and we should be hammering home that advantage regularly.
Tbf, it does make a difference. How many times have st mirren finished above us in 20 years. We have a very good record of beating them too.

[matty_f]

Tbf, it does make a difference. How many times have st mirren finished above us in 20 years. We have a very good record of beating them too.

The difference isn’t consistent. St Johnstone are another example. Or Motherwell.

[Hibernian Verse]

The difference isn’t consistent. St Johnstone are another example. Or Motherwell.

Nice edit Matty :greengrin

[matty_f]

Nice edit Matty :greengrin

Cheers. I’m prone to posting without thinking and realised the answer as soon as i posted!!

[Hibernian Verse]

Cheers. I’m prone to posting without thinking and realised the answer as soon as i posted!!

At least you edited your nonsense! 95% goes unchecked on here :wink:

[Since452]

Wasn't so long we were smashing teams with 20 plus shots on goal and four wins on the bounce. Tuesday was a horror show but we'll recover.

[WhileTheChief..]

The idea that one individual should know every player that's available for us to sign us ridiculous. It's impossible.

How can that be better than a specialist team looking at players around the globe?

It's easy to criticise signings as supposed proof that our current system isn't working, but if identifying players was left to one individual, we'd be criticising just as much, if not more.

The recruitment team look for players in the positions that the manager wants. They identify them and discuss them with the manager. If they suit his plan, they try to recruit them.

Why would employing Lennon, or anyone else, improve, or even change, that process?

Unless we're saying that Lennon would decide on our signings and that the manager has no say in the mstter...

Have as many folk as you like as part of the recruitment team doing the scouting and anything else that is required.

All i want is Lennon or LJ or whoever to be able to say 'Nah, he's gash, give me another option'.

If LJ currently has that power, and was happy with all of our signings, I'd bin him immediately.

[Big90inOz]

I’m neither an expert or a fitbaw player however it’s plain to see we are trying to play through teams with the ball. We have almost no one making runs into space ahead of the ball. Playing with 3 centres and a defensive midfielder we should be seeing either wing backs or midfielders making runs, even if the don’t get the ball it will attract defenders to them. Against St J there were huge gaps for the wing backs to attack however nearly every time they were coming back to collect the ball and trying to launch attacks from the half way line. Too slow and ineffective.

[A Hi-Bee]

All we need is just a little patience, whistle, whistle.

GGTTH

[CB Hibs 68]

Wasn't so long we were smashing teams with 20 plus shots on goal and four wins on the bounce. Tuesday was a horror show but we'll recover.

Certainly hope so because the downturn in the Ross County performance compared to the St Mirren one is massive.I actually thought we had turned the corner against St M as we played really well from start to finish and there were lots of candidates for the MOM.Fast forward 10 days or so and we get a turgid lack lustre performance against R C.Tomorrow’s game is massive and sadly I can’t see us winning after Tuesday night’s performance

[Hibees1973]

One thing we cannot say is that we don't have enough players. The problem is that the vast majority of the new players signed are not good enough or are constantly injured.

Can only hope that the likes of Boyle and Nisbet are fully fit and available after the World Cup which would make a difference to the first eleven I saw on Tuesday night.

Problem is that the first four fixtures after the World Cup are very difficult (Rangers, Livingston, Celtic & Hearts). Lose 3 of them, we are likely to be in the bottom three. Based Rons' previous decisions he will then punt Johnson.

[Keith_M]

And there were folk saying well done to the recruitment team.


Not me, I was still moaning.


:greengrin

[Sioux]

But still significant enough that it should be making a consistent difference, imho.

Add in the advantages of an excellent training centre, top end analysis tools etc on top of the bigger playing budget and we should be hammering home that advantage regularly.

A £2,000 per week player is no that much better than one on £1,000 per week. It's not significant when comparing £2,000 to £15,000+.

[Not In The Know]

A £2,000 per week player is no that much better than one on £1,000 per week. It's not significant when comparing £2,000 to £15,000+.

That’s the problem. 2-3 grand a week players up here can be way better than some overpaid mince in the English lower leagues on 10,000 a week.

Clubs get into huge financial difficulties paying journeymen good money.

[Keith_M]

Dump the dross, sign decent players (e.g strikers that can actually score and defenders who can defend) then play them in a setup that suits them.


Or we could just go back to bribing the refs, like we did during our four game winning streak.

[Pretty Boy]

One thing we cannot say is that we don't have enough players. The problem is that the vast majority of the new players signed are not good enough or are constantly injured.

Can only hope that the likes of Boyle and Nisbet are fully fit and available after the World Cup which would make a difference to the first eleven I saw on Tuesday night.

Problem is that the first four fixtures after the World Cup are very difficult (Rangers, Livingston, Celtic & Hearts). Lose 3 of them, we are likely to be in the bottom three. Based Rons' previous decisions he will then punt Johnson.

I don't see anyway we can sack Johnson unless it's part of a bigger plan. You can't have a structure that sees off 3 gaffers in 2 years and say there's no underlying problem.

Of all the chat about easy targets in the last few days, I would argue Johnson is the easiest of them all. He can't disappear out of the limelight, there's no ambiguity about his actual role and ultimately the results on a football park aren't really subjective in the way other matters are.

If he goes then the failure goes deeper than one man.

[matty_f]

A £2,000 per week player is no that much better than one on £1,000 per week. It's not significant when comparing £2,000 to £15,000+.

No, I’ve made this point before and i agree, however a team of £2k/week players - no, a squad of them, should be notably better than a smaller squad of £1k/week players.

If not, why are we paying more for our guys? Just get the £1k players and be done with it. Cut ticket prices accordingly.

[Scotty Leither]

A lot is (correctly) made of Ian Gordon having a role but who else is on the recruitment "team"?

Does Kevin Harper not have a scouting role?

I know the manager has a say in players coming in but I'd expect there to be a good few more people involved.

It just seems that Ian Gordon seems to carry the can (again, probably correctly if he is heading it up) for what is probably the work of a few people. And some of us might have a bit more confidence in the whole operation if there were recognised "fitba people" in there.

I'm critical of it (mainly because it clearly isn't bearing fruit and we've had too many recent transfer windows that have failed to address what is actually required) but would probably be lying if I said I knew exactly what was going on.

I'd like to know who scouted the boy Bojang, and what the process was - did somebody watch him in the flesh for 5/6 games for example. Ditto Meuller...because the signing of players like them are the reason we are justifiably questioning Ian Gordon's role.

I refuse to believe any manager would sign off on players like them, despite the noises coming out of ER that the manager has the final say, and these are the kind of questions that Gordon should be getting asked on his next podcast.

[matty_f]

I'd like to know who scouted the boy Bojang, and what the process was - did somebody watch him in the flesh for 5/6 games for example. Ditto Meuller...because the signing of players like them are the reason we are justifiably questioning Ian Gordon's role.

I refuse to believe any manager would sign off on players like them, despite the noises coming out of ER that the manager has the final say, and these are the kind of questions that Gordon should be getting asked on his next podcast.

Bojang was watched and recommended to Johnson from someone who’d been watching the Portuguese leagues (I think, but might be misremembering, it was the same person who altered us to Tavares’ availability through a contract clause that we took advantage of).

The question about the manager having final say has been asked, that’s how we know the answer.

[Hibees1973]

I don't see anyway we can sack Johnson unless it's part of a bigger plan. You can't have a structure that sees off 3 gaffers in 2 years and say there's no underlying problem.

Of all the chat about easy targets in the last few days, I would argue Johnson is the easiest of them all. He can't disappear out of the limelight, there's no ambiguity about his actual role and ultimately the results on a football park aren't really subjective in the way other matters are.

If he goes then the failure goes deeper than one man.

But at every the club the manager is always the easy target. If things are not going well the players are not sacked, it's the manager that gets punted.

At some clubs when there is an unclear or malfunctioning strategy, such as ours, then it is the owner/directors/recruitment that come under scrutiny.

This is where Ron has the power to hire and fire. He's done plenty of that in his time here. As I've said, the fixtures after the World Cup are really difficult and with the form we are in, how we performed in the last 5 or 6 games we could be in the bottom 3. No one on here would want Johnson to stay if we are in the bottom 3. If this happens and based on the past, Ron would then rightfully sack Johnson.

Where would this leave Ron. Surely he would have to then admit that he cannot appoint decent people, acknowledge the decline on the pitch, put the club up for sale and move on.

[Scotty Leither]

Bojang was watched and recommended to Johnson from someone who’d been watching the Portuguese leagues (I think, but might be misremembering, it was the same person who altered us to Tavares’ availability through a contract clause that we took advantage of).

The question about the manager having final say has been asked, that’s how we know the answer.

If Bojang and Tavares were deemed suitable for Hibs, then I wouldn't take any more recommendations from that particular individual.

I'm not convinced the manager, whoever the current incumbent is, has any veto on signings (see the Meuller deal), but to say he has the "final say" is disingenous as I think his final say is limited to the (mostly dross) that's put in front of him.

The players signed certainly don't fit the "ready-made" type that he has publically said he wanted - that's what driving the mistrust with some of the fans, and the club seemed cloth-eared to it all.

[The Modfather]

No, I’ve made this point before and i agree, however a team of £2k/week players - no, a squad of them, should be notably better than a smaller squad of £1k/week players.

If not, why are we paying more for our guys? Just get the £1k players and be done with it. Cut ticket prices accordingly.

As well as the lack of quality we’ve signed too many players where it’s not clear for what specific role. How much have we spent on Melkerson, McKirdy & Youan, as examples. Where I’m still not sure what their best position is and they seem to just get shunted out wide “to do a job”. Feels that we have too many players up front that can play a number to of positions, but not actually excel in any specific position.

[matty_f]

If Bojang and Tavares were deemed suitable for Hibs, then I wouldn't take any more recommendations from that particular individual.

I'm not convinced the manager, whoever the current incumbent is, has any veto on signings (see the Meuller deal), but to say he has the "final say" is disingenous as I think his final say is limited to the (mostly dross) that's put in front of him.

The players signed certainly don't fit the "ready-made" type that he has publically said he wanted - that's what driving the mistrust with some of the fans, and the club seemed cloth-eared to it all.

He wanted some ready made and others to work with , you can’t just select the bits of what people are saying to suit your view and then ignore the rest. Johnson himself said he’d been tracking Tavares for years and was delighted to sign him. Are we ignoring that because later on he said he wanted some ready made players?

And writing Bojang off after about half an hour of pitch time before he got injured? Tough crowd.

[matty_f]

As well as the lack of quality we’ve signed too many players where it’s not clear for what specific role. How much have we spent on Melkerson, McKirdy & Youan, as examples. Where I’m still not sure what their best position is and they seem to just get shunted out wide “to do a job”. Feels that we have too many players up front that can play a number to of positions, but not actually excel in any specific position.

I think we’re top heavy in some positions as well, i think we expected players to move out in the summer window, which didn’t really happen. McKirdy had been a target for a while and after McGeady’s injury i suspect we wanted someone who was a bit more of a known quantity to come in to give us some depth.

I do agree that it’s resulted in players playing out of their best position on the face of it though (caveat being I couldn’t tell you Youan, McKirdy or Melkersen’s best position having only seen them at Hibs)

[Scotty Leither]

He wanted some ready made and others to work with , you can’t just select the bits of what people are saying to suit your view and then ignore the rest. Johnson himself said he’d been tracking Tavares for years and was delighted to sign him. Are we ignoring that because later on he said he wanted some ready made players?

And writing Bojang off after about half an hour of pitch time before he got injured? Tough crowd.

We should be a "tough crowd" Matty, that's half the problem at Hibs. The minimum bar at Hibernian FC should be European football every season and anything less than that should be classed as failure.

On a general point, I was at the AGM pre-covid when Gordon unveiled his plans for the ground redevelopment which was met with wide approval.

He's followed through on that in spades...we've now got Rolls Royce facilities, but we're watching a spluttering, misfiring, 3rd-hand Rover on the park, and I'm getting kind of edgy at the direction the club's going where he seems to think sacking managers is the way to remedy it, instead of looking closer to home at the level of player we're bringing in.

Anyhoo, suspect we'll not agree on this, but if you see me at Killie tomorrow be sure to say "hi".

[matty_f]

We should be a "tough crowd" Matty, that's half the problem at Hibs. The minimum bar at Hibernian FC should be European football every season and anything less than that should be classed as failure.

On a general point, I was at the AGM pre-covid when Gordon unveiled his plans for the ground redevelopment which was met with wide approval.

He's followed through on that in spades...we've now got Rolls Royce facilities, but we're watching a spluttering, misfiring, 3rd-hand Rover on the park, and I'm getting kind of edgy at the direction the club's going where he seems to think sacking managers is the way to remedy it, instead of looking closer to home at the level of player we're bringing in.

Anyhoo, suspect we'll not agree on this, but if you see me at Killie tomorrow be sure to say "hi".
There’s being tough and there’s being tough though.

I’m heading through if my car plays ball in the morning so I’ll come say hello!

[Heisenberg]

Lennon is ****ing gash at signing players, surely even his biggest fans can see that?

Exactly. Leaving a manager to find and sign all players is a mental idea in the first place nevermind if it was Neil Lennon. He signed a whole load of ***** for us from agent pals.

[hibbie02]

Quite possibly the best option is bringing back Delferriere and Tait and giving them a run in conjunction with Magennis and Campbell. Not sure we would be otherwise signing the right players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Totally agree here. Tait in particular was brought back to be a first team player and got lost in the managerial shenanigans. Needs a chance. Delf clearly has something and needs an opportunity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Smartie]

Bojang was watched and recommended to Johnson from someone who’d been watching the Portuguese leagues (I think, but might be misremembering, it was the same person who altered us to Tavares’ availability through a contract clause that we took advantage of).

The question about the manager having final say has been asked, that’s how we know the answer.

Was he actually playing competitive matches in Portugal? I thought they were playing some training/ trial matches there, someone saw Bojang there (who was over from Rainbow trying to win a move) and someone recommended Hibs take a closer look?

I didn’t actually mind the Bojang punt, it’s the kind of move I like. I just have an issue with the number of punts we’ve made, the amount of resource we appear to have allocated to them and the highly speculative nature of them.

The lack of credible options we had to change the game during the second half on Tuesday (and this Saturday) is frightening.

Yes, we have injuries, but we shouldn’t be in this state.

[matty_f]

Was he actually playing competitive matches in Portugal? I thought they were playing some training/ trial matches there, someone saw Bojang there (who was over from Rainbow trying to win a move) and someone recommended Hibs take a closer look?

I didn’t actually mind the Bojang punt, it’s the kind of move I like. I just have an issue with the number of punts we’ve made, the amount of resource we appear to have allocated to them and the highly speculative nature of them.

The lack of credible options we had to change the game during the second half on Tuesday (and this Saturday) is frightening.

Yes, we have injuries, but we shouldn’t be in this state.

Bojang was playing in the Portugese U23s.

[Stuart93]

The decline is short term. It wasn’t that long ago we were on 4 wins on the bounce. Just need to find some consistency. The panic is mental

Think the panic is probably coming from our inability to get out of a rut with the majority of this squad under our past 2 managers

[bingo70]

Think the panic is probably coming from our inability to get out of a rut with the majority of this squad under our past 2 managers

Genuine question this and I’m not wanting to sound a dick about it but at the end of last season, did you think the new manager would turn everything around in one transfer window?

[B.H.F.C]

Genuine question this and I’m not wanting to sound a dick about it but at the end of last season, did you think the new manager would turn everything around in one transfer window?

Based on our recent transfer dealings, it doesn’t matter how many transfer windows we give a manager. We signed a dozen new players in the summer (not including the two who went permanent on the back of being here last season) but hardly any of them have come in and made any impact. Same in January. Same last summer.

Tuesday night was typical of what we saw for much of last season and it wasn’t exactly a surprise when 8 of the starting line up we’re here last season.

[bingo70]

Based on our recent transfer dealings, it doesn’t matter how many transfer windows we give a manager. We signed a dozen new players in the summer (not including the two who went permanent on the back of being here last season) but hardly any of them have come in and made any impact. Same in January. Same last summer.

Tuesday night was typical of what we saw for much of last season and it wasn’t exactly a surprise when 8 of the starting line up we’re here last season.

Sort of does matter though.

Did you expect the new manager to turn it around in one transfer window at the end of last season or did you think it was a bigger job than that?

[HibeeHibernia]

Based on our recent transfer dealings, it doesn’t matter how many transfer windows we give a manager. We signed a dozen new players in the summer (not including the two who went permanent on the back of being here last season) but hardly any of them have come in and made any impact. Same in January. Same last summer.

Tuesday night was typical of what we saw for much of last season and it wasn’t exactly a surprise when 8 of the starting line up we’re here last season.


:top markswell said mate, johnson was never going to make a mark in the summers window because half the squad are on 4 or 5 year deals, anyone could see we needed an overhaul in midfield but it hasn't happened and i doubt it will this window coming up either, that being said though i do think big myko has been some find and i think mckirdy may come good once he has settled in.

[B.H.F.C]

Sort of does matter though.

Did you expect the new manager to turn it around in one transfer window at the end of last season or did you think it was a bigger job than that?

With the number of players we signed I’d have expected more impact than what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t expect to be watching, in the main, the same players that contributed to two managerial sackings last season.

My issue is that I think we’ve regressed as the season has went on. Johnson spoke about it being a dozen or so games before we’d start to see his team coming together but it’s worked the other way round. I saw plenty things I liked in the firs 8 or 9 games but it’s actually went downhill from there.

[Stuart93]

Genuine question this and I’m not wanting to sound a dick about it but at the end of last season, did you think the new manager would turn everything around in one transfer window?

Not really no. But I was expecting us to do a bit better at home against Ross county/st J etc.

I was definitely expecting better than 3 points out of 18 as well. Not a huge ask to try and find some kind of consistency given our budget no?

[The Modfather]

Genuine question this and I’m not wanting to sound a dick about it but at the end of last season, did you think the new manager would turn everything around in one transfer window?

The alarming thing is that after signing however many in the summer we still started with 8 of the team from last season on Tuesday with another two coming on. With Lewis Stevenson being out attacking threat on the left for 55 minutes, in 2022!

We look to be at a crossroads. We might regroup and kick on with the World Cup break and getting Boyle back. However it feels very reminiscent of last season.

I think Johnson is doing a decent enough job, but he’s been dealt a bad hand as was the two managers before him.

[Pretty Boy]

Sort of does matter though.

Did you expect the new manager to turn it around in one transfer window at the end of last season or did you think it was a bigger job than that?

Why is it a bigger job though? We finished 3rd a couple of seasons ago, we aren't building back from relegation or administration.

There seems a bit of confusion in some some of the arguments. We are both on the right track, on course for 3rd or 4th and not far away from clicking but also a team that needs to be built over the course of multiple transfer windows. It can't really be both. If we are another 2 or 3 transfer windows away from being where we want to be then it's nowhere near clicking.

Even if we do accept any manager is going to get multiple windows to build a team in Scotland then the question then becomes is there faith we have the right people in place to achieve that. Given the rapid regression then stagnation in the last year I'm not convinced.

Frankly I do think the worst of our problems could be solved in one window with 2 or 3 really shrewd signings. The league is utter pish and it doesn't take much to elevate a team above the rest. We proved it with Ross and Hearts went from huffing and puffing in the Championship to 3rd with one solid window.

[bingo70]

With the number of players we signed I’d have expected more impact than what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t expect to be watching, in the main, the same players that contributed to two managerial sackings last season.

My issue is that I think we’ve regressed as the season has went on. Johnson spoke about it being a dozen or so games before we’d start to see his team coming together but it’s worked the other way round. I saw plenty things I liked in the firs 8 or 9 games but it’s actually went downhill from there.

Do you not think the games since then could be a bit of a bump in the road then if there were things you liked up until game 8/9?

At the risk of going all politician on you, you’re also still not answering the question about if you felt one transfer window would be enough to fix the mess of last season.

IMO at the end of last season, most fair minded people would be happy with us going into the World Cup still hanging in there with a chance of European football. I think most people would have accepted it might take a couple of windows at least to fix things and I think that’s how it’s panning out.

[B.H.F.C]

Do you not think the games since then could be a bit of a bump in the road then if there were things you liked up until game 8/9?

At the risk of going all politician on you, you’re also still not answering the question about if you felt one transfer window would be enough to fix the mess of last season.

IMO at the end of last season, most fair minded people would be happy with us going into the World Cup still hanging in there with a chance of European football. I think most people would have accepted it might take a couple of windows at least to fix things and I think that’s how it’s panning out.

I’m not dodging the question. One good window and I think we’re sitting clear in third just now. But the window was more of the same and in the current setup I think January will be more of the same. And next summer will be more of the same. There is a fundamental issue with recruitment and until that changes I don’t think anything else changes on a consistent basis. I don’t think we’re giving ourselves the best chance of improving but, equally, I think we’ve thrown away a big opportunity to put ourselves in a really good position in this first part of the season.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sort of does matter though.

Did you expect the new manager to turn it around in one transfer window at the end of last season or did you think it was a bigger job than that?

I think any decent manager could change our fortunes round in one windew given the right tools, spreading the money around as thinly as we have is clearly not the way to go.

Get the first team built as strongly as you can, then do all the other **** once the team is strong, it's not rocket science in my opinion.

[bingo70]

Why is it a bigger job though? We finished 3rd a couple of seasons ago, we aren't building back from relegation or administration.

There seems a bit of confusion in some some of the arguments. We are both on the right track, on course for 3rd or 4th and not far away from clicking but also a team that needs to be built over the course of multiple transfer windows. It can't really be both.

I don’t get your point here.

I think we are heading in the right direction, I think we are still in a relatively decent place to challenge for 3rd or 4th, from where we were last season I think that means we are on the right track. I also think that realistically we may need another transfer window to build on where we are just now.

I don’t see what’s conflicting or contradictory about that?

As for your first point, it’s a bigger job as we were awful last season and were in a rut. The fact we finished 3rd a couple of seasons ago is largely irrelevant.

[B.H.F.C]

I think any decent manager could change our fortunes round in one windew given the right tools, spreading the money around as thinly as we have is clearly not the way to go.

Get the first team built as strongly as you can, then do all the other **** once the team is strong, it's not rocket science in my opinion.

This. Even within the first team squad we’d have been much better signing 3 or 4 less but making sure the 8 or 9 we did sign were capable of playing in the first team. Could have supplemented it with our own youth players if we needed to make numbers up at any point because that all that some of the players brought in are doing.

[bingo70]

I’m not dodging the question. One good window and I think we’re sitting clear in third just now. But the window was more of the same and in the current setup I think January will be more of the same. And next summer will be more of the same. There is a fundamental issue with recruitment and until that changes I don’t think anything else changes on a consistent basis. I don’t think we’re giving ourselves the best chance of improving but, equally, I think we’ve thrown away a big opportunity to put ourselves in a really good position in this first part of the season.

So at the end of last season your expectations were that we would turn round all of our issue and be clear in 3rd after one transfer window of spending less than our direct competitors?

We’ve not thrown away anything IMO, we’re just a work in progress.

The reason we’ve taken a punt on random foreigners was explained and made sense, if we go for tried and tested players we are competing with clubs who pay considerably more than us, whether that’s Hearts, Aberdeen or championship clubs down south. That’s been our strategy that has failed for the most part, with the odd exception over the last however many years.

There’s been times we’ve been good this season, times we’ve been meh and there’s been times we’ve been awful. I do think there’s a foundation to build on now though, I certainly never thought that at the end of last season.

[Hibbyradge]

I think we spent the transfer kitty on bringing Martin Boyle back.

Maybe we should have let him go elsewhere and used the money to strengthen other areas of the team.

People are forgetting that we don't have unlimited resources.

[Pretty Boy]

I think any decent manager could change our fortunes round in one windew given the right tools, spreading the money around as thinly as we have is clearly not the way to go.

Get the first team built as strongly as you can, then do all the other **** once the team is strong, it's not rocket science in my opinion.

The issue I see is if we lose tomorrow and then struggle in the nightmare run of fixtures after the WC Johnson will already be on borrowed time. That's not going to be because of the fans either, no club is going to sit back and watch a team plummet down the league and not at least consider acting.

So then Johnson doesn't get his 3rd window, a new manager comes in and he needs at least X number of windows to turn it around and we start the whole cycle again. That's counter productive but there's really no other option in a league where as little as a couple of points difference in April could mean your last 5 games are either a shot at Europe or a relegation battle.

By it's very nature the Scottish Premiership is short term. McInness got a long time at Aberdeen because he hit the ground running in his 1st season. I struggle to think of another Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen manager in relatively recent times getting window after window to slowly build a team, certainly not one who proved to be ultimately successful. You've got 1 or 2 windows to put your stamp on a team, fail to do so and the P45 is inevitable.

[bingo70]

I think we spent the transfer kitty on bringing Martin Boyle back.

Maybe we should have let him go elsewhere and used the money to strengthen other areas of the team.

People are forgetting that we don't have unlimited resources.

And the teams we are competing with were also trying to get better as well.

As much as people say the league is poor this year, there’s also no easy game as all teams are taking points off each other.

[B.H.F.C]

So at the end of last season your expectations were that we would turn round all of our issue and be clear in 3rd after one transfer window of spending less than our direct competitors?

We’ve not thrown away anything IMO, we’re just a work in progress.

The reason we’ve taken a punt on random foreigners was explained and made sense, if we go for tried and tested players we are competing with clubs who pay considerably more than us, whether that’s Hearts, Aberdeen or championship clubs down south. That’s been our strategy that has failed for the most part, with the odd exception over the last however many years.

There’s been times we’ve been good this season, times we’ve been meh and there’s been times we’ve been awful. I do think there’s a foundation to build on now though, I certainly never thought that at the end of last season.

What I thought at the end of last season is irrelevant. My thoughts are based on what transpired over the summer and what I was seeing on the pitch. I thought Johnson had a relatively clean slate to work from and we’ve spent a lot of money, we’ve just not spent it very well.

If I was confident that we were building something then I’d agree with the work in progress thing, but I just can’t see it when there is such a scattergun approach to recruitment. I think we have the financial backing to build something now but we’re just not using it wisely enough.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think we spent the transfer kitty on bringing Martin Boyle back.

Maybe we should have let him go elsewhere and used the money to strengthen other areas of the team.

People are forgetting that we don't have unlimited resources.

There's 9k a week spare if you believe some posters Dave.

[bingo70]

What I thought at the end of last season is irrelevant. My thoughts are based on what transpired over the summer. I thought Johnson had a relatively clean slate to work from and we’ve spent a lot of money, we’ve just not spent it very well.

If I was confident that we were building something then I’d agree with the work in progress thing, but I just can’t see it when there is such a scattergun approach to recruitment. I think we have the financial backing to build something now but we’re just not using it wisely enough.

I respectfully disagree.

I think you’ve got unrealistic expectations expectations. Nobody has run away with 3rd place this year, why you expect us to do it is beyond me in all honesty given where we were last season and the fact other teams have spent more than us or started in a better place than us.

I’m surprised you can’t see progress in performances but I appreciate that’s subjective and not something that can be argued either way. I think we’ve been much better to watch for the most part, even in defeat.

[Hibbyradge]

There's 9k a week spare if you believe some posters Dave.

Not yet, Gary, not yet.

[The Modfather]

So at the end of last season your expectations were that we would turn round all of our issue and be clear in 3rd after one transfer window of spending less than our direct competitors?

We’ve not thrown away anything IMO, we’re just a work in progress.

The reason we’ve taken a punt on random foreigners was explained and made sense, if we go for tried and tested players we are competing with clubs who pay considerably more than us, whether that’s Hearts, Aberdeen or championship clubs down south. That’s been our strategy that has failed for the most part, with the odd exception over the last however many years.

There’s been times we’ve been good this season, times we’ve been meh and there’s been times we’ve been awful. I do think there’s a foundation to build on now though, I certainly never thought that at the end of last season.

Genuine question, what’s the foundation you see to build on? Marshall & Boyle, definitely. Rocky, Kenneh & Newell (although either or, not both IMO) maybe. Cabraja and Cadden not where I’d start the rebuild either, although not Caddens biggest fan.

Nisbet might be an answer up front when he’s back. Then you have Magennis but we essentially have to plan for life without him, and Kuharevic, but we probably won’t be able to sign him. All the others I don’t think we’d notice if any any of them left tomorrow.

[bingo70]

Genuine question, what’s the foundation you see to build on? Marshall & Boyle, definitely. Rocky, Kenneh & Newell (although either or, not both IMO) maybe. Cabraja and Cadden not where I’d start the rebuild either, although not Cadden biggest fan.

Nisbet might be an answer up front when he’s back. Then you have Magennis but we essentially have to plan for life without him, and Kuharevic, but we probably won’t be able to sign him. All the others I don’t think we’d notice if any any of them left tomorrow.

It’s the fact that up until the Celtic game we had the second best defence in the league (I think) and we are still creating chances in most games.

I think with a it more if a cutting edge we are a pretty decent side. As it happens we have Boyle, Nisbet and McGeady to come back after the World Cup and they’d make a massive difference to everyone in the league outside the old firm.

I also think LJ has had time to assess the side first hand now and is in a good position to know what we need to improve is and it won’t be masses.

We’re not brilliant just now, I just don’t think we’re far away from being decent. The Ross county game the other day was a horror show but apart from that I’ve liked how we’ve played for the most part this season.

[B.H.F.C]

I respectfully disagree.

I think you’ve got unrealistic expectations expectations. Nobody has run away with 3rd place this year, why you expect us to do it is beyond me in all honesty given where we were last season and the fact other teams have spent more than us or started in a better place than us.

I’m surprised you can’t see progress in performances but I appreciate that’s subjective and not something that can be argued either way. I think we’ve been much better to watch for the most part, even in defeat.

I did see progress in the performances, initially. But it’s the regression and seeing too much of last season that concerns me

I’ve never said I went in to this season expecting us to run away with third. But with the position we were in at the start of October, and the run of fixtures we had through to the break, that’s where I think we’ve missed a big chance to get points on the board and have ourselves in a really good position. And I think the reason we’ve missed that comes back to what we did in the summer.

[The Modfather]

It’s the fact that up until the Celtic game we had the second best defence in the league (I think) and we are still creating chances in most games.

I think with a it more if a cutting edge we are a pretty decent side. As it happens we have Boyle, Nisbet and McGeady to come back after the World Cup and they’d make a massive difference to everyone in the league outside the old firm.

I also think LJ has had time to assess the side first hand now and is in a good position to know what we need to improve is and it won’t be masses.

We’re not brilliant just now, I just don’t think we’re far away from being decent. The Ross county game the other day was a horror show but apart from that I’ve liked how we’ve played for the most part this season.

That’s fair, and I’ve not seen a lot of Hibs this season so others will be better placed to judge than me.

Boyle, Nisbet & McGeady (although he’s still to prove his worth IMO) will certainly improve our attack. The midfield is still my starting point and where I’d be investing most of my budget on the one or two quality additions I hope we will add in the next window or two. I would essentially pick either Kenneth or Newell, with Kenneth being my preference, to build the midfield around and sign two quality midfielders to specifically compliment them. Fix that, as well as left wing, and we will start to look like a proper team again IMO.

[bingo70]

I did see progress in the performances, initially. But it’s the regression and seeing too much of last season that concerns me

I’ve never said I went in to this season expecting us to run away with third. But with the position we were in at the start of October, and the run of fixtures we had through to the break, that’s where I think we’ve missed a big chance to get points on the board and have ourselves in a really good position. And I think the reason we’ve missed that comes back to what we did in the summer.

So what you’re saying is, we should have just signed better players and we wouldn’t have missed those opportunities?

Do you not think that was the plan in the summer? If it was that easy, would other clubs have not just done that? Remember Hearts and Aberdeen have lots more money than us so if these players were easily available, they would have signed them.

Fact of the matter is we have the 5th biggest budget in the league but expect to be the 3rd best team. That’s before you take into account we were the 8th or 9th best team last season but just expect to be the 3rd best this year?

We never tried to drop the points we did recently, unfortunately it’s just an inevitable consequence sometimes in a very tight league where everyone is taking points off everyone.

IMO hearts are a better team than us this season but so they should be considering the starting position and superior budget to us. I think Aberdeen are probably better than us this season and so they should be considering their budget.

I don’t see any other teams who I think will be better than us over the course of the season.

I also think despite what I said above, we’ve given ourselves a chance of finishing above Hearts and Aberdeen IF we are able to make a good signing or two in January and/or our injured players return and make the impact they’re capable of.

[Smartie]

I think we spent the transfer kitty on bringing Martin Boyle back.

Maybe we should have let him go elsewhere and used the money to strengthen other areas of the team.

People are forgetting that we don't have unlimited resources.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I have wondered if there is a bit of truth in it?

Boyle has come back and been a big player for us, but currently he's out injured.

We're probably going to go into Saturday's game with at least 3 players in our starting line up who simply have no business starting for Hibs at this time.

Times like this make you wonder if that was indeed the best use of that money.

We weren't saying that when he slotted in that equaliser against Hearts though.

[B.H.F.C]

So what you’re saying is, we should have just signed better players and we wouldn’t have missed those opportunities?

Do you not think that was the plan in the summer? If it was that easy, would other clubs have not just done that? Remember Hearts and Aberdeen have lots more money than us so if these players were easily available, they would have signed them.

Fact of the matter is we have the 5th biggest budget in the league but expect to be the 3rd best team. That’s before you take into account we were the 8th or 9th best team last season but just expect to be the 3rd best this year?

We never tried to drop the points we did recently, unfortunately it’s just an inevitable consequence sometimes in a very tight league where everyone is taking points off everyone.

IMO hearts are a better team than us this season but so they should be considering the starting position and superior budget to us. I think Aberdeen are probably better than us this season and so they should be considering their budget.

I don’t see any other teams who I think will be better than us over the course of the season.

I also think despite what I said above, we’ve given ourselves a chance of finishing above Hearts and Aberdeen IF we are able to make a good signing or two in January and/or our injured players return and make the impact they’re capable of.

I’m not having the finance argument. We’ve spent hundreds of thousands on Melkersen, McKirdy and even a 16 year old. If we were getting best value for our budget I’d say fair enough. But we’re getting nowhere near that. Not even a case of signing better players, just players ready to go in to the first team and if we did that, we’d be better off just now.

I think Aberdeen and Hearts with their bigger budgets have underperformed and that’s why I’m so disappointed we haven’t taken advantage in this part of the season.

Forgetting those two, do you think we’ve been spending what we have as best as we could?

[Smartie]

It’s the fact that up until the Celtic game we had the second best defence in the league (I think) and we are still creating chances in most games.

I think with a it more if a cutting edge we are a pretty decent side. As it happens we have Boyle, Nisbet and McGeady to come back after the World Cup and they’d make a massive difference to everyone in the league outside the old firm.

I also think LJ has had time to assess the side first hand now and is in a good position to know what we need to improve is and it won’t be masses.

We’re not brilliant just now, I just don’t think we’re far away from being decent. The Ross county game the other day was a horror show but apart from that I’ve liked how we’ve played for the most part this season.

FWIW I agree with every word of this.

The injuries are killing us right now and I can't pretend not to have been horrified by the Ross County performance.

We've got a tough run of games after the break and if we don't get players back quickly and we sink further I do fear that folk will get even more on LJ's case. simply because I don't think he's anywhere near the biggest part of our problems right now.

Players back from injury, a wee bit of January wheeling and dealing, minimise damage around Christmas - I still think we can have a decent if unspectacular season.

[Sioux]

This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I have wondered if there is a bit of truth in it?

Boyle has come back and been a big player for us, but currently he's out injured.

We're probably going to go into Saturday's game with at least 3 players in our starting line up who simply have no business starting for Hibs at this time.

Times like this make you wonder if that was indeed the best use of that money.

We weren't saying that when he slotted in that equaliser against Hearts though.

So, we shouldn't have brought Boyle back because he might pick up an injury?

[Is It On....]

Bin Kensall and Iain Gordon.

Bring in Lennon or someone else with knowledge of the Scottish game and give them full control over who we sign or sell, then start from scratch .

I agree about Gordon but we should absolutely not go down the old school Chief Scout "eye for a player" model... We need to go back to the George Craig systematic model of player recruitment. Find someone who has worked at Brighton or Brentford to run the analysis and have a strong Director of Football to support him. We were on the right track then sacked Mathie and since then we have massively regressed.

[Smartie]

So, we shouldn't have brought Boyle back because he might pick up an injury?


On balance, I don't think we could really have turned down the opportunity to bring him back, however I think we need to acknowledge that there was a certain risk in ploughing as much of our budget as we have into bringing back one player, as it left less in the kitty for adequate strength throughout the squad. Our transfer activity did slow over the summer after his arrival.

I reckon bringing him back will be part of the reason we'll be miles short in several positions from the start of the game tomorrow and have next to nothing on the bench to change it. That doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have resigned him.

We're unlucky he's got injured but that was the risk we took.

[Sir David Gray]

This isn't a call to get Johnson out by any means as I've already made it clear where I think our real problems lie but I think it's fanciful to think that Johnson might get several transfer windows to sort us out.

In the past 10 years the average lifespan of a Hibs manager has been around 15 months and if you take it from when Ron Gordon took control of the club the time that each manager has got is on average less than 10 months.

If we continue to struggle after the World Cup break he will undoubtedly come under severe pressure and I think he will be away pretty soon afterwards if the poor form does continue. He may get through to the end of the season but I think that unless we see a massive turnaround in our fortunes we will be onto a new manager by this time next year.

Football managers just don't get time these days to go through various sticky patches. I don't think we have spent well in the summer but we have spent a significant amount on those new players and whilst we have a smaller budget than Aberdeen and Hearts I don't think the amount that's been spent was expected to have us still struggling with the likes of St Mirren, Livingston and St Johnstone - clubs that can only dream of spending the sort of money that's at our disposal.

I do think that in answer to the question posed in the thread title the way to turn it around is a root and branch overhaul of the way the club runs its football department. Without that happening we are being set up to fail in my opinion and we will continue to have these conversations.

[Smartie]

This isn't a call to get Johnson out by any means as I've already made it clear where I think our real problems lie but I think it's fanciful to think that Johnson might get several transfer windows to sort us out.

In the past 10 years the average lifespan of a Hibs manager has been around 15 months and if you take it from when Ron Gordon took control of the club the time that each manager has got is on average less than 10 months.

If we continue to struggle after the World Cup break he will undoubtedly come under severe pressure and I think he will be away pretty soon afterwards if the poor form does continue. He may get through to the end of the season but I think that unless we see a massive turnaround in our fortunes we will be onto a new manager by this time next year.

Football managers just don't get time these days to go through various sticky patches. I don't think we have spent well in the summer but we have spent a significant amount on those new players and whilst we have a smaller budget than Aberdeen and Hearts I don't think the amount that's been spent was expected to have us still struggling with the likes of St Mirren, Livingston and St Johnstone - clubs that can only dream of spending the sort of money that's at our disposal.

I do think that in answer to the question posed in the thread title the way to turn it around is a root and branch overhaul of the way the club runs its football department. Without that happening we are being set up to fail in my opinion and we will continue to have these conversations.

Part of my concern is that I don't think any of the past 3 managers ever totally lost the fans - the managers lost Ron Gordon long before they lost the fans. There were murmurings of discontent and empty seats in the ground but there weren't exactly demonstrations out the back of the West stand.

Even on here there have been debates about every manager almost from the minute they've got the job, with robust opinions being exchanged but I've never really got the feeling anyone's been hounded out.

Having an owner with blind, unconditional loyalty to some staff members but a jumpy trigger finger for others doesn't really make for a stable or productive environment.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Sort of does matter though.

Did you expect the new manager to turn it around in one transfer window at the end of last season or did you think it was a bigger job than that?

The problem is that you’re asking people to give us a year and a half - 2 years to fix things with a recruitment team that have dragged us down from 3rd to 8th last season and failed us again this summer (at least in a lot of peoples eyes). Rather than proving themselves good at fixing things, they’ve proven themselves able to take a 3rd place squad, fill it with crap players and drag it down to 8th place.

3-4 windows is fine if we have faith that we’ll be where we want to be at the end of that window. Unfortunately, the recruitment team and RG have shown that that’s unlikely with their signings. So in a lot of peoples eyes you’re effectively asking people to write off a couple of years, £1000ish in season tickets etc to end up where we are now - with a bloated squad with very little talent that’ll still be somewhere between 6th - 8th, maybe even worse.

I personally have no interest in getting rid of LJ as I don’t think he’s where our main problems lie. I’ve absolutely no interest in giving IG and his recruitment team 3-4 windows to fix things though. They’ve had 2 or 3windows now and they’ve been absolutely abysmal. That shouldn’t be stretched out to 5 or 6.

[green day]

I do think that in answer to the question posed in the thread title the way to turn it around is a root and branch overhaul of the way the club runs its football department. Without that happening we are being set up to fail in my opinion and we will continue to have these conversations.

I agree entirely

Ron might also want to reflect that if Hearts get group stage football again this season - even if they are garbage during those stages - they will have pocketed close to £8m more than us in the 2 seasons of their involvement.



Having an owner with blind, unconditional loyalty to some staff members but a jumpy trigger finger for others doesn't really make for a stable or productive environment.


If we dont win today, then i fear that LJ will be sacked, but that doesnt mean that either of your posts above are wrong.

[Sir David Gray]

I agree entirely

Ron might also want to reflect that if Hearts get group stage football again this season - even if they are garbage during those stages - they will have pocketed close to £8m more than us in the 2 seasons of their involvement.




If we dont win today, then i fear that LJ will be sacked, but that doesnt mean that either of your posts above are wrong.

:agree: If we're assuming that the winners of the Scottish Cup are likely to be either Celtic or Rangers that means that the rewards for a 3rd place finish are highly significant for a club like Hibs given that it currently comes with guaranteed group stage European football and several million pounds in the bank it's certainly not to be sniffed at.

If we're also assuming that if we don't get 3rd place then it's highly likely to either go to Hearts (again) or Aberdeen then it means that yet again one out of our two biggest rivals gets a huge advantage over us yet again.

This season is huge for us and we can't afford to be writing off yet another season in the hope that it might be better next season once things magically click into place.

[Brightside]

So what you’re saying is, we should have just signed better players and we wouldn’t have missed those opportunities?

Do you not think that was the plan in the summer? If it was that easy, would other clubs have not just done that? Remember Hearts and Aberdeen have lots more money than us so if these players were easily available, they would have signed them.

Fact of the matter is we have the 5th biggest budget in the league but expect to be the 3rd best team. That’s before you take into account we were the 8th or 9th best team last season but just expect to be the 3rd best this year?

We never tried to drop the points we did recently, unfortunately it’s just an inevitable consequence sometimes in a very tight league where everyone is taking points off everyone.

IMO hearts are a better team than us this season but so they should be considering the starting position and superior budget to us. I think Aberdeen are probably better than us this season and so they should be considering their budget.

I don’t see any other teams who I think will be better than us over the course of the season.

I also think despite what I said above, we’ve given ourselves a chance of finishing above Hearts and Aberdeen IF we are able to make a good signing or two in January and/or our injured players return and make the impact they’re capable of.

On this - i do think we should have invested any available penny for players in the senior squad. Not getting 3rd this year will have a big impact in the following few years. This year wasn’t the time to invest in a Dev squad imo.

[blackpoolhibs]

On this - i do think we should have invested any available penny for players in the senior squad. Not getting 3rd this year will have a big impact in the following few years. This year wasn’t the time to invest in a Dev squad imo.

This 100%. :top marks

[matty_f]

On this - i do think we should have invested any available penny for players in the senior squad. Not getting 3rd this year will have a big impact in the following few years. This year wasn’t the time to invest in a Dev squad imo.

We’d be saying that every year though, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is it just me, but surely getting the best team you possibly can on the park is the 1st thing you do when building a club up, then you add when you are strong?

How can anyone reasonably expect to improve if you are spreading the cash out so thinly as we have?

A winning team surely then brings in the revenue needed to add players later.

[Hibernia&Alba]

3 things jump out for me.

The 1st is we need to sign 2 or 3 players proven at this level in January. The league is a mire of mediocrity, with the exception of 2 teams no one is too good to get dragged into a dogfight at the wrong end of the table, on the flip side with a couple of exceptions again no one is out of the race for 3rd or 4th either. A couple of above average players could see us not only put any talk or relegation battles to bed but also kick on and take advantage of the group stage opportunities available. January isn't a good window to sign players but if we have to pay a bit over the odds then fine or if we have to look at pre contracts then forcing a teams hand then also fine. I always find there to be a certain irony when people trot out the 'I'd rather take a punt than sign more dross from St Mirren or League 1' line. Firstly our most successful signing in terms of impact on the park, value for money and sell on value in about 3 decades came fromn St Mirren. Secondly the 4 players we want to see fit and are investing all our hopes in were signed from St Mirren, Dunfermilne, Dundee and Sunderland respectively. The only indisputable success from our summer activity came from QPR (who meet none of the criteria mentioned but were bang in the middle of the sludge of a Championship). We've done the punts, none of them have really hit the ground running, a couple look like there might be reason to persist with them and some look totally out their depth. It's time for a bit of pragmatism and that means proven players.

Secondly we need someone to oversee the football department. Without raking over old ground about who does what in the recruitment department there is surely near universal agreement that it hasn't been anywhere near good enough. We have signed 20+ players since last January and a handful have made any sort of positive impact in the 1st team. There is plenty of criticism that can be leveled at LJ tactically but looking at what he had available on Tuesday what would anyone really have done differently? Mitchell was a brain fart, a guy just back from injury, just recovering from illness and with a partner on the verge of giving birth sounds about the least ideal person to start a football match imaginable. Beyond that though there was very little on the bench that you can say 'aye they were the answer'. Melkerson was being put forward as the answer last week, this week it's Tavares, it's desperation stuff. I look at the teams put forward on the thread about the Killie game and I wonder how many people would say they were confident of any of them getting a result. There's a real lack of quality, particularly in the attacking areas. That's in spite of us having brought in a rake of nominally attacking options. The litmus test of any squad is surely when you have a couple of options unavailable, football management would be easy if you had your best 11 every week. We don't have that strength in depth and there's plenty evidence to prove it. Nothing Hibs are doing is radical or new. 'Players pathways', 'structured loans' etc have been done at other clubs and indeed Hibs for years. An experienced Director of Football or whatever you want to call it isn't being asked to reinvent the wheel. It needs someone to manage it and someone to ensure there is a structure and a balance to our signings. The last part is quite clearly lacking.

The 3rd point is we need to stick with the manager. He's up against it just now but I'm not convinced he's in a fair fight right now. He's working with a poor squad further impacted by injury. I'd even be willing to write off the rest of the season if he doesn't get the players he needs and we are comfortably clear of real trouble. I'd rather not of course for the reasons in my 1st paragraph but I'm not sure i see that happening, I like Johnson and I'd hope another bottom 6 finish would finally focus some minds in the summer and give him a fresh start next year. I'm not pinning too much hope on Nisbet, he's been out a long time and we saw with Doidge how that can impact a striker (or any player really). If we get half a dozen starts and 2 or 3 goals from him I think we'll have done well. This season hasn't been a complete transformation when compared to last season but until fairly recently it was better. Johnson is a manager who seems to at least acknowledge football is a form of entertainment, which is an upgrade on his 2 predecessors. As it stands I think he deserves time in a way that someone like Maloney didn't.

I'm aware that I'm moaning all the time lately but it isn't borne of a desire to be negative. There's been a general downward trend since we finished 3rd and there has to be a reason for that. We can't just say it's bad luck or say we should just shut up and support. Questioning and criticising those running the club is healthy imo when done in a broadly respectful manner. The club feels listless and maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't see it being a game or a 4 week break away from clicking. If anything we have regressed a bit since the heady heights of my optimism in August and September. This is a bad run but bad runs have characterised us for too long in recent times. In terms of league form LLLLLWLDL saw Ross sacked, WWLDLDLLWDDDLDL was the entirety of Maloney's reign and Johnson had had a DLDL and a LLLWLL already. That isn't coincidence. We need an overhaul, we need someone heading up the football side with real power and a pragmatic, even boring approach to signings to get things stabilised and slowly turning in the right direction.

Superb post, PB :top marks:not worth

You're right, there are a number of areas that need to improve at the club. Obviously, the main thing in turning around our recent slump is the management team and the players on the training ground. Tactics, team selection, fitness, sports psychologists, dieticians - the whole bit. Look at everything to ensure we are doing things properly. Then we need a few good signings during the next couple of transfer windows, particularly in midfield. Next, we need the owner to up his game, remove his son from head of recruitment and ensure the key positions at the club are filled by good people.

Morale is a bit low just now and everyone could do with a kick up the erse. There is room for much improvement at the club.

[green day]

We’d be saying that every year though, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it.

Not investing properly in the first team squad was a (huge) strategic mistake by whoever is in charge of our footballing dept.

The co-efficient for Euro competitions, and rewards of 3rd, were and are well known to anyone that cares to check.

Investing in a top notch development team should have been done off the back of success and finances from the first team, not instead of.

Its like the people running the show didnt realise that 3rd spot last year and this year were so important !

I try to remain positive, but its amateur hour stuff - and at complete odds with everything that Ron tells us he is trying to achieve, I simply cant get my head round it.

[Since452]

Is it just me, but surely getting the best team you possibly can on the park is the 1st thing you do when building a club up, then you add when you are strong?

How can anyone reasonably expect to improve if you are spreading the cash out so thinly as we have?

A winning team surely then brings in the revenue needed to add players later.

I do like LJ but your point is a good one and it should apply to the manager too. I can fathom why he keeps picking Henderson. He doesn't help himself. A fantastic goal against St Mirren doesn't change the fact that it's like playing with 10 men when he's in the team. If he starts today we'll struggle again.

[Brightside]

We’d be saying that every year though, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it.

Not for me. You bite the bullet and gamble on the first team. Then everything else is reward led. You make 3 mill from Europe then you can spend 500k on projects, the rest makes the first team stronger again. 3m extra every year is massive and a missed opportunity. How long will it take for 3m profit to come from the Dev team investment.

[Sioux]

On balance, I don't think we could really have turned down the opportunity to bring him back, however I think we need to acknowledge that there was a certain risk in ploughing as much of our budget as we have into bringing back one player, as it left less in the kitty for adequate strength throughout the squad. Our transfer activity did slow over the summer after his arrival.

I reckon bringing him back will be part of the reason we'll be miles short in several positions from the start of the game tomorrow and have next to nothing on the bench to change it. That doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have resigned him.

We're unlucky he's got injured but that was the risk we took.

If Hibs didn't re-sign MB, all hell would have ensued on here and elsewhere. So, whether it hindered the money spent on other areas of the team is really neither here nor there.

[Hibbyradge]

Not investing properly in the first team squad was a (huge) strategic mistake by whoever is in charge of our footballing dept.

The co-efficient for Euro competitions, and rewards of 3rd, were and are well known to anyone that cares to check.

Investing in a top notch development team should have been done off the back of success and finances from the first team, not instead of.

Its like the people running the show didnt realise that 3rd spot last year and this year were so important !

I try to remain positive, but its amateur hour stuff - and at complete odds with everything that Ron tells us he is trying to achieve, I simply cant get my head round it.

To be fair, we invested heavily in the first team squad. Martin Boyle is our most expensive player ever.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not for me. You bite the bullet and gamble on the first team. Then everything else is reward led. You make 3 mill from Europe then you can spend 500k on projects, the rest makes the first team stronger again. 3m extra every year is massive and a missed opportunity. How long will it take for 3m profit to come from the Dev team investment.

:agree:

We also probably would be saying it every year. But it’s got a hell of a lot more merit when Scotland are going to have 3 or 4 seasons of these European places before the coefficient inevitably drops again.

The time to do this as you say is on the back of success but also when the ‘European riches’ are back to being a pishy qualifying spot before getting knocked out which they will be in 2 or 3 years. Not when our two rivals are likely to be coining it in by finishing in these positions ahead of us and their fans getting to enjoy European group stage football. We’re highly unlikely to make £4m or so profit from any of these development players, we would make that by finishing third though.

When this opportunity became available you could almost guarantee Hibs would find some other project to detract from the first team.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not for me. You bite the bullet and gamble on the first team. Then everything else is reward led. You make 3 mill from Europe then you can spend 500k on projects, the rest makes the first team stronger again. 3m extra every year is massive and a missed opportunity. How long will it take for 3m profit to come from the Dev team investment.

Exactly, how hard is that to understand? :confused:

[A Hi-Bee]

Superb post, PB :top marks:not worth

You're right, there are a number of areas that need to improve at the club. Obviously, the main thing in turning around our recent slump is the management team and the players on the training ground. Tactics, team selection, fitness, sports psychologists, dieticians - the whole bit. Look at everything to ensure we are doing things properly. Then we need a few good signings during the next couple of transfer windows, particularly in midfield. Next, we need the owner to up his game, remove his son from head of recruitment and ensure the key positions at the club are filled by good people.

Morale is a bit low just now and everyone could do with a kick up the erse. There is room for much improvement at the club.

I also pretty much agree with PB's post, but will raise the stakes with appointing a Director of Football, someone with real clout and experience to be able to get things done on the football side. I would like to say perhaps Pat Nevin, but he may be unavailable, so I would go for Neil Lennon, like him or not he has managed at the top level for a long time.
GGTTH

[J-C]

There were signs things were improving and the catalyst to our poor run was the Celtic game. he tried to play Celtic at their own game and failed miserably. Rocky was back fit and on the bench but after that game he's tried to accommodate Rocky into a back 3 and it's been horrendous. Get back to the 433 with high press which was working fine and play either Porteous or Rocky.

[bingo70]

Exactly, how hard is that to understand? :confused:

I think the counter argument is we have a very good group of under 18s just now with no progression pathway to the first team however they aren’t quite ready for first team football just yet.

We’re trying to create a structure that benefits them right now as there’s a need for it right now.

I do get the scepticism about the new development team and I wouldn’t even say I’m totally on board with it, I do get why we’re having to try something different though.

“If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got”, there’s two teams with bigger budgets than us competing for third place, we need to try something different and think outside the box a bit. Producing good young players and then finding an alternative to just releasing them at 18 might be a solution?

[chippy]

Is it just me, but surely getting the best team you possibly can on the park is the 1st thing you do when building a club up, then you add when you are strong?

How can anyone reasonably expect to improve if you are spreading the cash out so thinly as we have?

A winning team surely then brings in the revenue needed to add players later.

Much too sensible post

[chippy]

Not for me. You bite the bullet and gamble on the first team. Then everything else is reward led. You make 3 mill from Europe then you can spend 500k on projects, the rest makes the first team stronger again. 3m extra every year is massive and a missed opportunity. How long will it take for 3m profit to come from the Dev team investment.

Exactly

[Pretty Boy]

I think the counter argument is we have a very good group of under 18s just now with no progression pathway to the first team however they aren’t quite ready for first team football just yet.

We’re trying to create a structure that benefits them right now as there’s a need for it right now.

I do get the scepticism about the new development team and I wouldn’t even say I’m totally on board with it, I do get why we’re having to try something different though.

“If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got”, there’s two teams with bigger budgets than us competing for third place, we need to try something different and think outside the box a bit. Producing good young players and then finding an alternative to just releasing them at 18 might be a solution?

The development team isn't new.

We had a team in the under 20s for years which was the pathway, when that was dissolved we had a team in the reserves league that came about. Ourselves along with others then chose to withdraw and arrange our own programme of matches. That was ongoing in the period between withdrawal and what we are doing now (which is essentially the same thing whilst others have went down the Lowland League route).

It's a rebranding but it's not a new concept or a new set up. We didn't previously have to choose 1st team or release for every player at 18. There's always been another rung on the ladder.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the counter argument is we have a very good group of under 18s just now with no progression pathway to the first team however they aren’t quite ready for first team football just yet.

When Jimmy O'Rourke came through at 16 or Joe Baker, or even recently Ryan or Josh, the pathway was there for them.

If you are good enough, you will get a game.

We’re trying to create a structure that benefits them right now as there’s a need for it right now.

Is playing games with the likes of Haugue Jair Melkerson, Henderson and the likes going to make the under 18s better?

I do get the scepticism about the new development team and I wouldn’t even say I’m totally on board with it, I do get why we’re having to try something different though.

Just because it's different does not make it the right way.

“If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got”,

We are making more money than ever, Ron with all his faults is a very good business man, he has the clubs income soaring to new levels.

Doing what we've always done better and with more to spend is what i'd like us to do, but it's obviously not the owners view, still doesnt make it right though, again in my opinion.

there’s two teams with bigger budgets than us competing for third place, we need to try something different and think outside the box a bit. Producing good young players and then finding an alternative to just releasing them at 18 might be a solution?

Good players find their level, however they were brought through, and bringing kids through to the detriment of the first team seems the wrong way round for me.

[bingo70]

Good players find their level, however they were brought through, and bringing kids through to the detriment of the first team seems the wrong way round for me.

Good points, don’t disagree with any of them. I’m just trying to play devils advocate as I think there is a strategy there now which I don’t think there always has been recently.

[Sioux]

Not for me. You bite the bullet and gamble on the first team. Then everything else is reward led. You make 3 mill from Europe then you can spend 500k on projects, the rest makes the first team stronger again. 3m extra every year is massive and a missed opportunity. How long will it take for 3m profit to come from the Dev team investment.

Your analysis depends on Hibs getting to Europe group stages (probably Conference league). There's absolutely no guarantee of that being achieved. Just because that's an aim, doesn't mean it will happen. There are two other clubs with similar ambitions, and have more money with which to fund that aim.

Why do we keep hearing in here that with a bit better spending on the recruitment front, automatic group stage European football is a given?

[blackpoolhibs]

Your analysis depends on Hibs getting to Europe group stages (probably Conference league). There's absolutely no guarantee of that being achieved. Just because that's an aim, doesn't mean it will happen. There are two other clubs with similar ambitions, and have more money with which to fund that aim.

Why do we keep hearing in here that with a bit better spending on the recruitment front, automatic group stage European football is a given?

Nothing is a given, but it's got a much better chance of happening than this way has.

[The Modfather]

Your analysis depends on Hibs getting to Europe group stages (probably Conference league). There's absolutely no guarantee of that being achieved. Just because that's an aim, doesn't mean it will happen. There are two other clubs with similar ambitions, and have more money with which to fund that aim.

Why do we keep hearing in here that with a bit better spending on the recruitment front, automatic group stage European football is a given?

Given how tight the league is and how everyone is much of a muchness spending the money we have spent on the likes of Melkerson, Macallister, Hague, Tait, Mackay etc on first team ready players gives us a better chance of achieving the riches on offer at the movement. Not in a few seasons when those players might develop and we find that we no longer get automatic group stage European football and back to having to win a number of playoffs to get to the group stage riches.

[JohnM1875]

Given how tight the league is and how everyone is much of a muchness spending the money we have spent on the likes of Melkerson, Macallister, Hague, Tait, Mackay etc on first team ready players gives us a better chance of achieving the riches on offer at the movement. Not in a few seasons when those players might develop and we find that we no longer get automatic group stage European football and back to having to win a number of playoffs to get to the group stage riches.

Even if we finish third this year we might not automatically get group stage football right? Everything just fell perfectly into place for Hearts last year, as it typically does for them.

[Brightside]

Your analysis depends on Hibs getting to Europe group stages (probably Conference league). There's absolutely no guarantee of that being achieved. Just because that's an aim, doesn't mean it will happen. There are two other clubs with similar ambitions, and have more money with which to fund that aim.

Why do we keep hearing in here that with a bit better spending on the recruitment front, automatic group stage European football is a given?

It’s not. But you have to be in it to win it.

[Fergus52]

Even if we finish third this year we might not automatically get group stage football right? Everything just fell perfectly into place for Hearts last year, as it typically does for them.

Nah we definitely do this season and next season.

Likely to change the season after that though due to the terrible performances from Scottish clubs this year

[JohnM1875]

Nah we definitely do this season and next season.

Likely to change the season after that though due to the terrible performances from Scottish clubs this year

Ah I see! Thought it was something to do with both teams making the group stages of Champs League meant Hearts got the Europa play off.

[Sir David Gray]

Nah we definitely do this season and next season.

Likely to change the season after that though due to the terrible performances from Scottish clubs this year

3rd place doesn't get automatic group stage football, the Europa League play off spot goes to the Scottish Cup winners but if they have already qualified for the Champions League then that spot goes to 3rd place.

If Forfar win the Scottish Cup this season they'll be guaranteed group stage European football next season and 3rd place goes into the Conference League along with 4th place.

[One Day Soon]

We are not going to either win the Scottish Cup or finish in a European place this season.

Our player recruitment 'strategy' hasn't been a strategy, it has been unstructured impulse buying at development level. We have not recruited for this season with a serious ambition of getting into European group stages, we have recruited with the intention of gold panning a bunch of inexperienced players in the hope that one turns into a big sale asset.

Lee Johnson and the support are locked in the boot of Ron Gordon's car and unfortunately the two people taking turns to drive that car don't know how to drive it, where to go or what its purpose is.

I doubt Johnson will survive the season, that will be not insignificantly his fault but also much, much more substantially the fault of the two people playing Football Manager with our beloved institution.

[Jim44]

We are not going to either win the Scottish Cup or finish in a European place this season.

Our player recruitment 'strategy' hasn't been a strategy, it has been unstructured impulse buying at development level. We have not recruited for this season with a serious ambition of getting into European group stages, we have recruited with the intention of gold panning a bunch of inexperienced players in the hope that one turns into a big sale asset.

Lee Johnson and the support are locked in the boot of Ron Gordon's car and unfortunately the two people taking turns to drive that car don't know how to drive it, where to go or what its purpose is.

I doubt Johnson will survive the season, that will be not insignificantly his fault but also much, much more substantially the fault of the two people playing Football Manager with our beloved institution.


Totally agree. Ron Gordon is not the man for Hibs, in terms of the important issue ……. the football team.

He sometimes talks a good game, gets less important peripheral things right but hasn’t a clue when it comes to the crunch. We’re going nowhere fast.

[James70]

Hibs really are a basket case of a football club these days. It doesn't matter who the manager is or who is in the team. Sack the current manager and get yet another useless article in who is just looking for a generous pay off after a poor season. Target was 3rd place? Don't make me laugh. We'll be lucky to avoid relegation as we are now the worst team in the SPL after losing to all the teams below us. Thanks for the memories Hibs.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

We’ve got advantages now that we’ve not always had. We’re spending much more now. We’ve got training facilities that most of the league don’t have. It’s only since we won the cup that we’ve had the number of season ticket holders we do these days (that season we were regularly playing to 8-9k).

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to regularly beat the majority of the teams in the league. Not win every single week, not challenge the big two, not win a trophy every year. Just do what we should do with all those advantages we have over more than half of the league.

Very much this.