Hate to say it but…

[Dashing Bob S]

… this is the most ludicrous, ridiculous, frustrating set up we’ve ever had in my experience of watching Hibs. Almost better when we were just rubbish.

[Sgt. Hartman]

3 CB’s and a holding midfielder at home to Ross county in a game we have to be winning. It’s disgraceful!

[HibbyAndy]

3 CB’s and a holding midfielder at home to Ross county in a game we have to be winning. It’s disgraceful!

Dinnae ken where you have been for 4 years with very few posts but you are absolutely bang on my friend !!

[McGruber]

3 CB’s and a holding midfielder at home to Ross county in a game we have to be winning. It’s disgraceful!

Absolutely. And at half time, one down - take off our only goalscoring striker and leave the 3 centre backs where they are. Awful.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Dinnae ken where you have been for 4 years with very few posts but you are absolutely bang on my friend !!

Just need somewhere to vent in times of crisis mate.

It’s scary that we looked more solid at the back with a flat 4… purely playing with this 3-5-2 p!sh so he doesn’t need to drop one of the CB’s.

[KeithTheHibby]

3 CB’s and a holding midfielder at home to Ross county in a game we have to be winning. It’s disgraceful!

Correct, that is on the manager.

[SickBoy32]

The 3 centre halves was baffling no other word for it

The squad is very poor particularly going forward, but LJ really no helping himself with setups like that

[Unseen work]

I don’t mind playing a 352 with a sitting midfielder in Kenneh.

It’s a formation that gives balance.

The issue for me is we don’t have the wingbacks, attacking mid and striker to play it. They’re just not creative enough or intelligent enough.

There’s never a wee slip pass to the man in space, beating a man or dropping a shoulder, near 1-2’s in and around the area or through balls.

It’s overload the right side with Cadden, Porteous and one other. Cadden gets into an area and puts in a pointless cross.

Our shots for stat always looks good but in reality half of them never trouble the keeper or aren’t even a proper chance.

Look at us with 352 under Lennon. We created proper chances and played through teams.

[sesoim]

Look at us with 352 under Lennon. We created proper chances and played through teams.

We were only really good under Lennon for the last four months of 2017/18, and that was because we had Allan on loan.

[Hermit Crab]

Absolutely. And at half time, one down - take off our only goalscoring striker and leave the 3 centre backs where they are. Awful.


In fairness to that he was only another foul away from 2nd booking. The right call imo.

[MacBean]

I don’t mind playing a 352 with a sitting midfielder in Kenneh.

It’s a formation that gives balance.

The issue for me is we don’t have the wingbacks, attacking mid and striker to play it. They’re just not creative enough or intelligent enough.

There’s never a wee slip pass to the man in space, beating a man or dropping a shoulder, near 1-2’s in and around the area or through balls.

It’s overload the right side with Cadden, Porteous and one other. Cadden gets into an area and puts in a pointless cross.

Our shots for stat always looks good but in reality half of them never trouble the keeper or aren’t even a proper chance.

Look at us with 352 under Lennon. We created proper chances and played through teams.
Exactly the comments I made to my brother last night.
The words we used to sum it up were ‘ineffective’ and ‘passive’

[Real Emerald]

I don’t mind playing a 352 with a sitting midfielder in Kenneh.

It’s a formation that gives balance.

The issue for me is we don’t have the wingbacks, attacking mid and striker to play it. They’re just not creative enough or intelligent enough.

There’s never a wee slip pass to the man in space, beating a man or dropping a shoulder, near 1-2’s in and around the area or through balls.

It’s overload the right side with Cadden, Porteous and one other. Cadden gets into an area and puts in a pointless cross.

Our shots for stat always looks good but in reality half of them never trouble the keeper or aren’t even a proper chance.

Look at us with 352 under Lennon. We created proper chances and played through teams.

Agree, we constantly get the ball out wide, have a rubbish cross in or even a good cross to no one in the middle., we’re so easy to defend against. The games are full of opportunities to pass a ball through the centre to a runner but they very rarely try it. They either hold on to the ball too long and the chance is gone or it’s passed straight back to where it came from. It then gets recycled out wide and back to another awful cross or a decent cross to no one again. Rinse and repeat, we’re never scoring from these tactics.

[truehibernian]

The sooner Ron Gordon goes the better 👍 total disconnect between the support and players (and owner), product on the park has been allowed to diminish to below mediocre, managers who promise lots but deliver nothing meaningful. Players still here who should have been gone a couple of seasons ago. Players who have no desire, no fighting qualities, and look like they don’t hurt after defeats.

I’ll accept defeats when we play with fight and bravery, but you ain’t getting that with this side. Too many soft players who are pretty spineless when the going gets tough.

Comes from the top down, and we need to get RG as far from this club as possible. And don’t want to hear about off the park and fancy suites, screens and deals with VPN companies.

I want good, exciting, but more importantly passionate football and footballers at Hibs - not bloody a la carte prawn terrines and big tellys 👍

[Smartie]

352 with Fenwick, Sauzee and Smith at the back with Matty Jack as a defensive midfielder in front of them was certainly effective and attacking enough.

The problem with the current version is that the back 3 are collectively much leakier than that 3, our defensive midfielder is a rookie who is finding his feet relative to Jack, and I don't know where to start with the rest of the team relative to the Sauzee Latapy team.

[raeburnhibs]

In fairness to that he was only another foul away from 2nd booking. The right call imo.

Is this another new thing; taking off someone on a booking to save a sending off? or is he a complete hothead? because players play on bookings all the time and this situation is managed. He is a striker, the only one who looks remotely likely to score. To take him off and replace with Youan who is much more comfortable drifting and going wide was 100% the wrong call, we lost the focus of the team straight away, the shape went and it went even further downhill from there

[hibby rae]

I don’t mind playing a 352 with a sitting midfielder in Kenneh.

It’s a formation that gives balance.

The issue for me is we don’t have the wingbacks, attacking mid and striker to play it. They’re just not creative enough or intelligent enough.

There’s never a wee slip pass to the man in space, beating a man or dropping a shoulder, near 1-2’s in and around the area or through balls.

It’s overload the right side with Cadden, Porteous and one other. Cadden gets into an area and puts in a pointless cross.

Our shots for stat always looks good but in reality half of them never trouble the keeper or aren’t even a proper chance.

Look at us with 352 under Lennon. We created proper chances and played through teams.

Spot on. Nothing negative at all about a 352. We played one in 2016 as well.

Really hope Nisbet can hit the ground running and Magennis can stay fit. We'll also need to add (and add well) in the upper areas in January.

[WestStandWillie]

Insipid, dull as dishwater and brutal to watch.

Lost count of the amount of times the ball was over or under hit and possession was lost. We've got a guy playing DM making the same mistakes he made in pre season games, the defence have zero confidence in him.

Starting Mitchell when there 2 better options on the bench was criminal.

If we lost that whilst actually having a go i'd be annoyed but more understanding. There was nae fight last night, nae urgency - could easily loan 5 or 6 them out to lower league sides and they wouldn't be guaranteed starters. It speaks volumes when the only positive play last night was a decent cross from Stevenson and nae takers in the box.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Is this another new thing; taking off someone on a booking to save a sending off? or is he a complete hothead? because players play on bookings all the time and this situation is managed. He is a striker, the only one who looks remotely likely to score. To take him off and replace with Youan who is much more comfortable drifting and going wide was 100% the wrong call, we lost the focus of the team straight away, the shape went and it went even further downhill from there

:agree:

That’s two games recently where he’s been taking off presumably to stop him being sent off. It’s a load of *****.

[LaMotta]

Spot on. Nothing negative at all about a 352. We played one in 2016 as well.

Really hope Nisbet can hit the ground running and Magennis can stay fit. We'll also need to add (and add well) in the upper areas in January.


352 with Fenwick, Sauzee and Smith at the back with Matty Jack as a defensive midfielder in front of them was certainly effective and attacking enough.

The problem with the current version is that the back 3 are collectively much leakier than that 3, our defensive midfielder is a rookie who is finding his feet relative to Jack, and I don't know where to start with the rest of the team relative to the Sauzee Latapy team.


I think another problem with the 3-5-2 is that you need an attacking CM in there who can create things. When 3-5-2 worked its best for us ( 2000/2001 and 2017/18) we had Russell Latapy and a fully firing Scott Allan.

Right now we don't have one creative midfielder available.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I think another problem with the 3-5-2 is that you need an attacking CM in there who can create things. When 3-5-2 worked its best for us ( 2000/2001 and 2017/18) we had Russell Latapy and a fully firing Scott Allan.

Right now we don't have one creative midfielder available.

Russel Latapy
Scott Allan
Ewan Henderson

And we wonder why 3-5-2 can’t work this time round.

[Unseen work]

Agree, we constantly get the ball out wide, have a rubbish cross in or even a good cross to no one in the middle., we’re so easy to defend against. The games are full of opportunities to pass a ball through the centre to a runner but they very rarely try it. They either hold on to the ball too long and the chance is gone or it’s passed straight back to where it came from. It then gets recycled out wide and back to another awful cross or a decent cross to no one again. Rinse and repeat, we’re never scoring from these tactics.

There was the perfect example of what you’re referring to about holding on to the ball too long.

In the first half Henderson got the ball in the centre circle with an obvious and relatively easy pass on to the feet of Melkersen and Kuharevych who were nothing showing for it.

Henderson delayed and delayed and delayed before playing the pass to Kuharevych who miscontrolled it, not an excuse for a poor touch but I imagine the delay in the pass played a part.

We just need to play those passes to the strikers much quicker and more often, we done it for 10 minutes last night to good effect and Melkersen looked sharp and then it wasn’t done again.

[I'm Spartacus]

There was the perfect example of what you’re referring to about holding on to the ball too long.

In the first half Henderson got the ball in the centre circle with an obvious and relatively easy pass on to the feet of Melkersen and Kuharevych who were nothing showing for it.

Henderson delayed and delayed and delayed before playing the pass to Kuharevych who miscontrolled it, not an excuse for a poor touch but I imagine the delay in the pass played a part.

We just need to play those passes to the strikers much quicker and more often, we done it for 10 minutes last night to good effect and Melkersen looked sharp and then it wasn’t done again.

The bit you mention was like there was a glitch in the system, how long do we have to wait for a pass to not become so obvious, then the hesitation effects the players waiting to take the pass FFS. Shambolic.

[Hermit Crab]

Russel Latapy
Scott Allan
Ewan Henderson

And we wonder why 3-5-2 can’t work this time round.

He is not good enough, can't control a ball, can't pass, can't beat a man. A lot of our attacks break down with him and then we are immediately under pressure as a result.

[Bostonhibby]

And we seem to be spending more money than usual to achieve this baffling level of mediocrity.

Still, we have big tellies and the option of improved hospitality to enjoy whilst admiring the sheer skill, game management and kicking the round thing accurately towards the in - goal zone, of the likes of Ross County, Livingston and St Johnstone when their road show rolls into Easter Road to collect their 3 points.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Viva_Palmeiras]

3 CB’s and a holding midfielder at home to Ross county in a game we have to be winning. It’s disgraceful!

Weveseen this movie before - maybe it’s managerial code for ****** if I know ?!
how many games does LJ supposedly have “under his belt”?

[loanheadhibby]

Weveseen this movie before - maybe it’s managerial code for ****** if I know ?!
how many games does LJ supposedly have “under his belt”?

Do you not think we play 3 centre backs as LJ wants to pick all 3 of them? Maybe he’s putting square pegs in round holes. I just can’t fathom any other reasons for 3 centre halves and a holding midfielder at home to Ross County.

[WeeRussell]

Russel Latapy
Scott Allan
Ewan Henderson

And we wonder why 3-5-2 can’t work this time round.

Worked no too bad in 2016 with none of those players.

[SaulGoodman]

Worked no too bad in 2016 with none of those players.

I mean we did have Mcginn.. and Mcgeouch… and Fyvie..

[cameronw-hfc]

Agree we've got it wrong last few, don't agree with the 3 centre backs vs county at home" comments insinuating 3 at the back is defensive.
3 at the back formations can actually some of the most gung-ho and attacking formations, some are defensive and some in between.

Same as 4 at the back. Can play boring low blocks with 4 at the back, not necessarily a more attacking formation

I also think we're setting up to attack, our players just can't handle the instructions. Kenneh is in there to provide cover for Porto/Hanlon who have licence to make those underlapping runs, but positional play like you're 2 wide CBs going forward, DM dropping in, wing backs giving width and helping create overloads and the inside players getting to the edge of the box... It's great to have an idea like that, it's beautiful to watch when properly working, but it's very complex and takes a while for players of our level to fully understand, and evidently, they're not.

[SaulGoodman]

It’s not hard. Keep the wingbacks on come back on defence. Keep the CDM on stay back while attacking and cover centre, have the strikers on stay forward and get in behind. I do it all the time on FIFA.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Agree we've got it wrong last few, don't agree with the 3 centre backs vs county at home" comments insinuating 3 at the back is defensive.
3 at the back formations can actually some of the most gung-ho and attacking formations, some are defensive and some in between.

Same as 4 at the back. Can play boring low blocks with 4 at the back, not necessarily a more attacking formation

I also think we're setting up to attack, our players just can't handle the instructions. Kenneh is in there to provide cover for Porto/Hanlon who have licence to make those underlapping runs, but positional play like you're 2 wide CBs going forward, DM dropping in, wing backs giving width and helping create overloads and the inside players getting to the edge of the box... It's great to have an idea like that, it's beautiful to watch when properly working, but it's very complex and takes a while for players of our level to fully understand, and evidently, they're not.

3 at the back is defensive when there’s 5 defenders and a holding midfielder on the pitch playing it.

[JohnM1875]

3 at the back is defensive when there’s 5 defenders and a holding midfielder on the pitch playing it.

Exactly. No one, or not many are saying it's too defensive a formation in general, but it absolutely is with the personnel we're using it with.

[Pretty Boy]

I genuinely laughed when the 2nd goal went in last night, there was just such an inevitability about it and even the manner in which we conceded it was predictable. Not because I found it funny, it was a bit like inappropriate laughing at a funeral.

I genuinely envy the handful of posters who still feel we are on the right track and heading in the right direction (it may be more than a handful but they are the only ones brave enough to put their heads above the parapet so good on them). All I see is a club that is an absolute unmitigated shambles on the football side. There are about 3 players in our entire squad I would be genuinely upset to lose. Not a single one of the young players looks like even close to being the gem that is going to turn it on for a couple of years then earn us a lot of money; as it stands Melkerson, Tavares, Henderson, Hague, Kenneh etc etc look like being a huge net loss when you consider fees, wages and other associated costs.

I've had plenty great times watching Hibs when we were crap, now it's just depressing. My biggest worry is I don't think we are at rock bottom yet.

[One Day Soon]

I genuinely laughed when the 2nd goal went in last night, there was just such an inevitability about and even the manner we conceded it was predictable. Not because I found it funny, it was a bit like inappropriate laughing at a funeral.

I genuinely envy the handful of posters who still feel we are on the right track and heading in the right direction (it may be more than a handful but they are the only ones brave enough to put their heads above the parapet so good on them). All I see is a club that is an absolute unmitigated shambles on the football side. There are about 3 players in our entire squad I would be genuinely upset to lose. Not a single one of the young players looks like even close to being the gem that is going to turn it on for a couple of years then earn us a lot of money; as it stands Melkerson, Tavares, Henderson, Hague, Kenneh etc etc look like being a huge net loss when you consider fees, wages and other associated costs.

I've had plenty great times watching Hibs when we were crap, now it's just depressing. My biggest worry is I don't think we are at rock bottom yet.

Yep. Rock bottom will come if we slide much further because at that point you are in a street fight for survival and I'm afraid the mediocre players we have do not have the spine or the wits to see us through that.

[matty_f]

Is this another new thing; taking off someone on a booking to save a sending off? or is he a complete hothead? because players play on bookings all the time and this situation is managed. He is a striker, the only one who looks remotely likely to score. To take him off and replace with Youan who is much more comfortable drifting and going wide was 100% the wrong call, we lost the focus of the team straight away, the shape went and it went even further downhill from there

It's a fairly recent thing, came about from it being Maloney's fault for not subbing Newell on a booking at Hampden v Hearts.

[WeeRussell]

I mean we did have Mcginn.. and Mcgeouch… and Fyvie..

Absolutely. Not purely about having a Latapy or Scott Allan instead of someone like Henderson.

[Hermit Crab]

Last night was one of those 'must win' games to get us back on track against arguably the worst team in the league. We made their keeper make one save of note while we conceded 2 shocking goals. Lost to Dundee Utd, St Johnstone and Ross County. Two of those games at home as well. All 3 teams well below us in the league and we are heading that way at an alarming rate. Killy will tuck us away on Saturday and that should be the end of Johnson and the coaching staff.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I genuinely laughed when the 2nd goal went in last night, there was just such an inevitability about it and even the manner in which we conceded it was predictable. Not because I found it funny, it was a bit like inappropriate laughing at a funeral.

I genuinely envy the handful of posters who still feel we are on the right track and heading in the right direction (it may be more than a handful but they are the only ones brave enough to put their heads above the parapet so good on them). All I see is a club that is an absolute unmitigated shambles on the football side. There are about 3 players in our entire squad I would be genuinely upset to lose. Not a single one of the young players looks like even close to being the gem that is going to turn it on for a couple of years then earn us a lot of money; as it stands Melkerson, Tavares, Henderson, Hague, Kenneh etc etc look like being a huge net loss when you consider fees, wages and other associated costs.

I've had plenty great times watching Hibs when we were crap, now it's just depressing. My biggest worry is I don't think we are at rock bottom yet.

Good post unfortunately.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yep. Rock bottom will come if we slide much further because at that point you are in a street fight for survival and I'm afraid the mediocre players we have do not have the spine or the wits to see us through that.

You do know we're already 8 points clear of any relegation spot, right?

Can I ask why we're more worried about an 8 point gap closing than our 2 point gap to 3rd?

[green day]

You do know we're already 8 points clear of any relegation spot, right?

Can I ask why we're more worried about an 8 point gap closing than our 2 point gap to 3rd?

Our form suggests we are going in one direction and it's not closing the gap.

[MWHIBBIES]

Our form suggests we are going in one direction and it's not closing the gap.

Can our form not change?

4 wins in a row didn't make us champions, same as 5 losses in 6 games isn't relegating us. A season is 38 matches long. Its very unlikely we go down.

[green day]

Can our form not change?

4 wins in a row didn't make us champions, same as 5 losses in 6 games isn't relegating us. A season is 38 matches long. Its very unlikely we go down.

We should have enough, but the capitulation v St J is worrying.

The Fenlon / Butcher season tells us that a team in our position at this stage is not safe.........

[MWHIBBIES]

We should have enough, but the capitulation v St J is worrying.

The Fenlon / Butcher season tells us that a team in our position at this stage is not safe.........

The capitulation with 10 men? That is what you're basing this on? Christ, I thought it was something serious

''we should have enough''? We've got more than enough. Folk desperately need to get over the Butcher season. We're ****ing talking about relegation and sacking managers on here after EVERY bad run. Its laughable. There is 23 games to go. 36 points kept you safe last season. We have 20. Do you genuinely think we will not get 16 points in 23 games?

This season is going exactly as it was likely to go. Win some, lose some. Miss important players and suffer for it, win games when they're fit.

[Smartie]

I genuinely laughed when the 2nd goal went in last night, there was just such an inevitability about it and even the manner in which we conceded it was predictable. Not because I found it funny, it was a bit like inappropriate laughing at a funeral.

I genuinely envy the handful of posters who still feel we are on the right track and heading in the right direction (it may be more than a handful but they are the only ones brave enough to put their heads above the parapet so good on them). All I see is a club that is an absolute unmitigated shambles on the football side. There are about 3 players in our entire squad I would be genuinely upset to lose. Not a single one of the young players looks like even close to being the gem that is going to turn it on for a couple of years then earn us a lot of money; as it stands Melkerson, Tavares, Henderson, Hague, Kenneh etc etc look like being a huge net loss when you consider fees, wages and other associated costs.

I've had plenty great times watching Hibs when we were crap, now it's just depressing. My biggest worry is I don't think we are at rock bottom yet.

I was very much one of those who thought we were on the right track - but last night seriously jolted me to a different position (certainly not as doom and gloom as some but still - it has massively knocked my opinion).

Whilst a lot has been made of the mitigating factors in our recent decent run (opponents going down to 10 on several occasions) I thought there were mitigating factors in the recent poorer results, roughly evening out with us being mid table but with reasons to be looking up the way.

Last night was pitiful and it was one of those terrifying performances that had no redeeming features. It was alarming in the extreme and there was so much wrong that you don't know where to start with the changes. The "team for Killie" thread will be back to wildly differing suggestions when - 6 weeks or so ago - we'd have all agreed upon "same team please".

Marshall

Cadden
Porteous
Hanlon
Cabraja

Kenneh
Newell
Magennis

Boyle
Myko
McGeady

Now I still take some convincing that the above team, fully fit, doesn't have what it takes to be in the hunt for 3rd place, with some quality on the bench to come in if necessary. That's before we get onto adding to the squad in January.

But in terms of what we have to pick from right now and where we go from here, right now? God knows.

And as culpable as I think Johnson has been at times, I don't think another manager gets more out the current players.

What a big difference a week makes though. I was speaking to a mate at 7's last Thursday and we were both still quite positive off the back of the St Mirren game. A couple of bad defeats in only a few days and the conversation tomorrow night becomes very, very different.

[hibsbollah]

I was still willing to look at the positive possibilities but when you look at how spectacularly bad last night was. I mean it was incredibly bad. I doubt Lee Johnson could have done much else tactically when you have Cadden Tavares Henderson passing the ball like that, with no care and attention. It’s a player issue. I just don’t think they’re good enough. And our best player, at least in terms of potential resale value if we had him on a long contract, has a rubbish attitude and half the time plays like he doesn’t want to be here.

[Scotty Leither]

The manager mentioned “quality players” in his interview a fair few times last night. He was referring to the quality that was out injured, Nisbet, Boyle.

He also mentioned the lack of “quality” at his disposal just now, added to him mentioning earlier in the season about wanting “ready made” players brought in.

I think he’s as sick of working with the dross that’s being foisted on him as we are of watching it.

[hibsbollah]

The manager mentioned “quality players” in his interview a fair few times last night. He was referring to the quality that was out injured, Nisbet, Boyle.

He also mentioned the lack of “quality” at his disposal just now, added to him mentioning earlier in the season about wanting “ready made” players brought in.

I think he’s as sick of working with the dross that’s being foisted on him as we are of watching it.

Of course he’s the manager and ultimately accountable for what happens out there but the things that were going wrong were simply basics of technique and care and attention. It’s a player issue. I don’t give Johnson a pass but I also don’t think bringing in a new manager at this point makes anything better.

[Hibiza]

Yep. Rock bottom will come if we slide much further because at that point you are in a street fight for survival and I'm afraid the mediocre players we have do not have the spine or the wits to see us through that.
:top marks

[A Hi-Bee]

Once that downward spiral starts it can be very difficult to stop. L.J says the players show no lack of effort etc, but what I see is many of the same players who gave half decent performances a few games ago, but now are giving nothing, something is not right at Easter Road.
I suspect it is ingrained in some of the players that are playing just now, we need to remember that these same players have seen off 2 or 3 other managers.
As for the Gordon's, they can sure run a business but not a football team, we need a director of football at Hibs.

[matty_f]

Of course he’s the manager and ultimately accountable for what happens out there but the things that were going wrong were simply basics of technique and care and attention. It’s a player issue. I don’t give Johnson a pass but I also don’t think bringing in a new manager at this point makes anything better.

Johnson certainly can't wash his hands of it and I don't think he needed to field the team he did. He said he wanted a young team and set up that way. It was a mistake.

I am happy to question recruitment but how many of Ross County's players are we taking at Hibs? Or St Johnstone's etc.

The manager has final say on players. Bushiri, Henderson and Marshall had deals lined up before he came in so he gets a pass with those, the rest he's said he's either wanted to bring himself, or has signed off on them, so if there's a lack of quality on the pitch and we're to assume that he means the players aren't good enough for Hibs, rather than they lacked quality on the night, then we need to ask why he's signed off on them (those that he signed) and why he's persevering with the ones he inherited?

Johnson, by his own admission, is as accountable and as responsible for the signings on the park as anyone else is. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that he's closer to the process to be able to say that than folk on here who have made up what they think happens.

The players need a long, hard look at themselves for that performance and the complete lack of standards that they're holding each other to, but Johnson got it all wrong last night and washing his hands of it and blaming recruitment is a massive bit of misdirection and a huge cop-out

[Stubbsy90+2]

You do know we're already 8 points clear of any relegation spot, right?

Can I ask why we're more worried about an 8 point gap closing than our 2 point gap to 3rd?

Our record this season is not a kick on the arse off identical to Maloneys.

We don’t have to worry about 3rd place.

[hibsbollah]

Johnson certainly can't wash his hands of it and I don't think he needed to field the team he did. He said he wanted a young team and set up that way. It was a mistake.

I am happy to question recruitment but how many of Ross County's players are we taking at Hibs? Or St Johnstone's etc.

The manager has final say on players. Bushiri, Henderson and Marshall had deals lined up before he came in so he gets a pass with those, the rest he's said he's either wanted to bring himself, or has signed off on them, so if there's a lack of quality on the pitch and we're to assume that he means the players aren't good enough for Hibs, rather than they lacked quality on the night, then we need to ask why he's signed off on them (those that he signed) and why he's persevering with the ones he inherited?

Johnson, by his own admission, is as accountable and as responsible for the signings on the park as anyone else is. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that he's closer to the process to be able to say that than folk on here who have made up what they think happens.

The players need a long, hard look at themselves for that performance and the complete lack of standards that they're holding each other to, but Johnson got it all wrong last night and washing his hands of it and blaming recruitment is a massive bit of misdirection and a huge cop-out

I’d certainly take the rapid #7 on the right wing and the #10 despite being a massive cheat and WUM had the ability to beat a man that our entire eleven seemed to lack. I take some of your points on board but on the other side of the argument LJ wasn’t the one smashing cross after cross over the heads of everyone and out for another throw in that RC took 60 seconds to get back into play. Even if only two or three of those ****ing crosses are on the money we have every chance of getting something from the game.

[Stuart93]

Johnson certainly can't wash his hands of it and I don't think he needed to field the team he did. He said he wanted a young team and set up that way. It was a mistake.

I am happy to question recruitment but how many of Ross County's players are we taking at Hibs? Or St Johnstone's etc.

The manager has final say on players. Bushiri, Henderson and Marshall had deals lined up before he came in so he gets a pass with those, the rest he's said he's either wanted to bring himself, or has signed off on them, so if there's a lack of quality on the pitch and we're to assume that he means the players aren't good enough for Hibs, rather than they lacked quality on the night, then we need to ask why he's signed off on them (those that he signed) and why he's persevering with the ones he inherited?

Johnson, by his own admission, is as accountable and as responsible for the signings on the park as anyone else is. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that he's closer to the process to be able to say that than folk on here who have made up what they think happens.

The players need a long, hard look at themselves for that performance and the complete lack of standards that they're holding each other to, but Johnson got it all wrong last night and washing his hands of it and blaming recruitment is a massive bit of misdirection and a huge cop-out

Some of the players have needed a long hard look at themselves for a while now.

[loanheadhibby]

The capitulation with 10 men? That is what you're basing this on? Christ, I thought it was something serious

''we should have enough''? We've got more than enough. Folk desperately need to get over the Butcher season. We're ****ing talking about relegation and sacking managers on here after EVERY bad run. Its laughable. There is 23 games to go. 36 points kept you safe last season. We have 20. Do you genuinely think we will not get 16 points in 23 games?

This season is going exactly as it was likely to go. Win some, lose some. Miss important players and suffer for it, win games when they're fit.

God points and I agree with most of what you say although losses to Livingston, St Mirren, Dundee U, St Johnstone and Ross C are hard to take.
I think it's the manner of last night's defeat that has people worried.
Do you think LJ can get us out of this mess given time?

[MWHIBBIES]

Our record this season is not a kick on the arse off identical to Maloneys.

We don’t have to worry about 3rd place.

Maybe not, but if we're not in contention for 3rd, we surely cannot be in any relegation trouble?

Maloney got 15 points from 15 matches, winning only 3

Johnson has 20 from 15 matches, winning 6.

Over 38 games, Shaun gets 38 points. Lee gets 50. 50 gets top 6 most of the time, and never gets relegated.

[MWHIBBIES]

God points and I agree with most of what you say although losses to Livingston, St Mirren, Dundee U, St Johnstone and Ross C are hard to take.
I think it's the manner of last night's defeat that has people worried.
Do you think LJ can get us out of this mess given time?

I don't really think we're in a great mess. We're just an inconsistent team. Fans will probably hound him out before he gets any chance to really manage something. He wont recover from anything other than an unbelievable run in our next 5 league games.

Over 38 games, we'll probably do fine. Not good, not *****, just okay.

[green day]

The capitulation with 10 men? That is what you're basing this on? Christ, I thought it was something serious

''we should have enough''? We've got more than enough. Folk desperately need to get over the Butcher season. We're ****ing talking about relegation and sacking managers on here after EVERY bad run. Its laughable. There is 23 games to go. 36 points kept you safe last season. We have 20. Do you genuinely think we will not get 16 points in 23 games?

This season is going exactly as it was likely to go. Win some, lose some. Miss important players and suffer for it, win games when they're fit.

Of course I am not basing it all on the St J match, but it is the manner of that collapse that concerns me - they didnt show enough fight to defend our lead.

Not only the players, but it seemed to me that the management team could have done more, adjusted the shape (maybe bring on Kenneh or Stevenson) to hang on to what we had as it was clear what St J would be doing.

I thought they all just looked like they had no idea what to do.

[Smartie]

Johnson certainly can't wash his hands of it and I don't think he needed to field the team he did. He said he wanted a young team and set up that way. It was a mistake.

I am happy to question recruitment but how many of Ross County's players are we taking at Hibs? Or St Johnstone's etc.

The manager has final say on players. Bushiri, Henderson and Marshall had deals lined up before he came in so he gets a pass with those, the rest he's said he's either wanted to bring himself, or has signed off on them, so if there's a lack of quality on the pitch and we're to assume that he means the players aren't good enough for Hibs, rather than they lacked quality on the night, then we need to ask why he's signed off on them (those that he signed) and why he's persevering with the ones he inherited?

Johnson, by his own admission, is as accountable and as responsible for the signings on the park as anyone else is. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that he's closer to the process to be able to say that than folk on here who have made up what they think happens.

The players need a long, hard look at themselves for that performance and the complete lack of standards that they're holding each other to, but Johnson got it all wrong last night and washing his hands of it and blaming recruitment is a massive bit of misdirection and a huge cop-out

I don't think Johnson can wash his hands of it and he was certainly partly culpable for last night's debacle.

But looking at the players we have available, who is injured and who is badly out of form - it feels like it almost doesn't matter who the manager is on Saturday, we're up against it if the players show anything like they did last night.

I get that it's the manager's job to get the players up for playing and there may be a link between him and some of our biggest players being so poor last night - but sometimes the players have to take responsibility.

I don't think the shelling the crosses out of play was down to Johnson. I thought Melkerson had earned his start - then he forgot how to control a ball or compete for a header. Can Johnson really be blamed for the defending that led to the Ross County goals that changed the game?

Does a new manager coming in manage to form a cohesive attacking unit out of Melkerson, Youan, Campbell, Henderson and the like for Saturday? In my opinion nobody is more or less likely to do so than Johnson as those players collectively will be nowhere near the standard required to be picking up points in this league this season.