The pen

[Johnny_Leith]

I must have watched the penalty incident about 15 times since Friday night.

I humbly suggest that this penalty award is one of the worst VAR call, worldwide, of all time.

To allow such an obvious vaulting of the goalie as a pen is, frankly, hilarious.

It paints Scottish football in such a poor light. It matters not that it happens to Hibs; It could be hearts, aberdeen or Albion rovers who were the recipient of this decision, it somehow beggars belief but is also completely expected that the pen is given from that.

The game here is ****ed until we have accountability from refs and communication for the fans from the spfl and sfa.

[Bridge hibs]

I must have watched the penalty incident about 15 times since Friday night.

I humbly suggest that this penalty award is one of the worst VAR call, worldwide, of all time.

To allow such an obvious vaulting of the goalie as a pen is, frankly, hilarious.

It paints Scottish football in such a poor light. It matters not that it happens to Hibs; It could be hearts, aberdeen or Albion rovers who were the recipient of this decision, it somehow beggars belief but is also completely expected that the pen is given from that.

The game here is ****ed until we have accountability from refs and communication for the fans from the spfl and sfa.VAR is quite brutal, has it been the “leveller” it was intended to be ? Thus far and certainly seeing it since it came into play in Scotland and particularly with the recent shocker of a penalty decision against hibs then I would suggest not

For balance though I think it has proved to have its faults not just here but there have also been a lot of head scratching verdicts in England too. Our biggest issues is not just the VAR, its the shocking level of officiating on a consistent basis from our so called referees, but thats not new. Coupled with VAR its heading for a disaster which may ultimately turn fans away from the game

[Carheenlea]

Football rules decisions are largely subjective. A human being still has to make a call based on technological assistance which often confuses rather than paint accurate evidence of any incident to be dealt with, resulting in being put under even more pressure than before to make what’s deemed to be a correct decision. It’s quite simple really as why it’s unworkable - you can have all the tech in the world but human error will still be at the forefront.

Ultimately, this will discourage more fro taking up refereeing, or at least refereeing at top level. For the betterment of the game and for the betterment of officials, take them out the firing line and let them officiate in a more natural manner.
Help them even more by removing half the cameras at big TV games while you’re at it.

[GreenCastle]

Football rules decisions are largely subjective. A human being still has to make a call based on technological assistance which often confuses rather than paint accurate evidence of any incident to be dealt with, resulting in being put under even more pressure than before to make what’s deemed to be a correct decision. It’s quite simple really as why it’s unworkable - you can have all the tech in the world but human error will still be at the forefront.

Ultimately, this will discourage more fro taking up refereeing, or at least refereeing at top level. For the betterment of the game and for the betterment of officials, take them out the firing line and let them officiate in a more natural manner.
Help them even more by removing half the cameras at big TV games while you’re at it.

I don’t think we should take away the few extra cameras and bury in heads in the sand saying them let them be rubbish.

There aren’t enough refs in Scotland at all levels.

Hence why the crap ones somehow get fast tracked and way out their depth at the pro level.

They need to have a recruitment drive to find more refs. But do folk want to be refs if part time and all the hassle of dealing with Old Firm fans ?

Even full time pay doesn’t guarantee them being better as you could end up paying the bad refs more for the same mistakes.

Friday night was an example of awful reffing and use of VAR. The process and way it was handled was incompetent and wrong.

The best thing they could do for the refs is give them a microphone and fans to hear what they are saying - it would clear up an corruption shouts and let fans know what the reasons behind decisions are.

Obviously Friday they reckon there was contact but even the replay shows Marshall pulled his hands away and Dul chucked himself towards the keeper. Did they even look at it from another angle ? I haven’t seen any other angles so begs the question why haven’t we seen other camera angles ? Scotland has the cheap VAR and less cameras but surely fans , players and coaches deserve to see other angles ?

Having Clydesdale house the home of VAR only 10 minutes away from Ibrox and Celtic Park is a joke too - fans should communicate what’s being said between pitch side ref and the other ref in the studio.

[Moulin Yarns]

Remember that our part time referees get £840 per game. Yes, £840 for 90 minutes, even allowing for the time before a match that is about the same as a professional, like a dentist for example.

[JimBHibees]

Remember that our part time referees get £840 per game. Yes, £840 for 90 minutes, even allowing for the time before a match that is about the same as a professional, like a dentist for example.

Is it not more than that? The issue is that it is completely not fit for purpose the structure and governance of refereeing in this country. Certain refereeing associations dominate and have disproportionate power on who gets games etc. Clancy is one of the heads of one of the refereeing bodies. See the article below which lifted some of the lid on it a few years back.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/16114571.investigation-referees-blow-whistle-unrest/

This line is literally incredible and yet nothing much has changed.

The first Scottish Cup final was in 1873 – and it was 107 years before an Edinburgh referee was appointed to take charge. It is now 145 years since that first final and there has been a total of three. I think that would be reflected in the other associations outwith Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire.”

[LeithMike]

Is it not more than that? The issue is that it is completely not fit for purpose the structure and governance of refereeing in this country. Certain refereeing associations dominate and have disproportionate power on who gets games etc. Clancy is one of the heads of one of the refereeing bodies. See the article below which lifted some of the lid on it a few years back.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/16114571.investigation-referees-blow-whistle-unrest/

This line is literally incredible and yet nothing much has changed.

The first Scottish Cup final was in 1873 – and it was 107 years before an Edinburgh referee was appointed to take charge. It is now 145 years since that first final and there has been a total of three. I think that would be reflected in the other associations outwith Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire.”

I still think it’s astonishing that that article is out there and yet there has not been any accountability for it. It is unarguable that there is bias in the way the top tier referees are selected and if bias pervades in the selection process then it is highly likely it will manifest itself elsewhere along with incompetence.

Shocked that nothing has been done in respect of this and even general awareness among fans. Scottish football smells so bad but it’s like your own smell you become so used to it you can’t detect it but you stink to everyone else!

PS - that’s a general point and not so much about the penalty - which never was. This was also a chance for Goodwin to come out and do something about diving but it just shows he’s like everyone else and doesn’t care if he benefits from it. Highlights his tirade against Porteous was about losing rather than any more noble purpose that he claimed. The press should be pointing that out to him.


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[JimBHibees]

I still think it’s astonishing that that article is out there and yet there has not been any accountability for it. It is unarguable that there is bias in the way the top tier referees are selected and if bias pervades in the selection process then it is highly likely it will manifest itself elsewhere along with incompetence.

Shocked that nothing has been done in respect of this and even general awareness among fans. Scottish football smells so bad but it’s like your own smell you become so used to it you can’t detect it but you stink to everyone else!

PS - that’s a general point and not so much about the penalty - which never was. This was also a chance for Goodwin to come out and do something about diving but it just shows he’s like everyone else and doesn’t care if he benefits from it. Highlights his tirade against Porteous was about losing rather than any more noble purpose that he claimed. The press should be pointing that out to him.


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Yep you still see the same faces getting the top games with no accountability over and over again. Just basically a clique who are in charge and have the ball and no one else is allowed to play with it. When appalling referees like Clancy are in charge you know something is wrong. Clubs should kick up about this but as the article suggest the SFA are happy to go with it. The idea of having an organisation meant to protect the interests of referees deciding if you have a complaint and a top ref is chairing would be thrown out of any properly run organisation in the country.

[neil7908]

We need to stop blaming VAR. VAR is just a tool - it doesn't make decisions, refs do. We also need to update the rules of the game.

They were not designed to be subject to detailed video review and are not fit for the level of technological intervention we have now.

[Greenbeard]

I'm no expert on the Laws of the game but common sense suggests to me that if a player makes a movement simply to bring about contact and thereby "win" a foul, the award should go the other way. Move "naturally" to get possession, or to protect the ball, fine, but if all you are doing is leaving a trailing leg or the like so you are then "entitled to go down" it's cheating and should be dealt with as such. Like the hand ball rule, if it's an "un-natural" movement you're penalised for it. VAR wouldn't solve that mind cos it would still be a subjective call.

[BlackSheep]

We need to stop blaming VAR. VAR is just a tool - it doesn't make decisions, refs do. We also need to update the rules of the game.

They were not designed to be subject to detailed video review and are not fit for the level of technological intervention we have now.

Correct… VAR isn’t the problem it’s our poor referees… we need them to be full time professionals and we need transparency in their decisions.

[Callum_62]

The penalty was a clear dive

Shocked that Duk managed an even worse dive at 3-0 and somehow got the free kick [emoji23][emoji23]

That was laughable to be honest

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[LewysGot2]

Correct… VAR isn’t the problem it’s our poor referees… we need them to be full time professionals and we need transparency in their decisions.

The problem isn’t the current lot going full time, it’s there’s not enough people in the pool to start off with so there’s few to choose from ( partly because folk give up early in their referee career and partly because of age restrictions limiting the pathway and partly because the SFA seem to favour professional career people as they think they’ll have the soft skills to progress up to UEFA/FIFA level).

Unless we address the issues further down the pathway we won’t get enough people willing or able to get to the top for there to be a choice of who officiates. They were targeting university students not that long ago I read.

Also, because of the kind of jobs so many of these refs do, they’re not going to be giving up the day job when they can earn a fair amount on top of it as a second job. Bankers, lawyers etc during the week already on good salaries and earning hundreds/thousands a week on top of it from your part time job. These top refs are not financially poor as it is. Think Madden was ready and able to go south for full time refereeing because he was in a more mainstream job. Worth the risk, possibly.

[Smartie]

In principle I still like the idea of VAR.

I do think though that we probably need to tighten up and clarify the rules in view of it being used.

And ultimately, I think we all need to accept the subjectivity that goes with making certain decisions.

I’d love to understand the thought process that led to Friday’s decision - even if only do that if we ever have a similar incident ag the other end, then I can be confident we’d benefit from a similar decision.

A few wrongs will already have been righted, which will be a step in the right direction, even if all the decisions haven’t been right.

I am getting a bit fed up with the over-analysis of VAR though, which I’d almost becoming a sport in itself.

[Shrekko]

The most disturbing thing is that it’s actually rewarding cheating. Almost everyone who has tired to defend the decision has talked about ‘contact’ … and we all know that players dive into contact. But that’s exactly what these idiot refs are looking for on their slow motion replays to justify a decision that everyone impartial can see is just plain wrong.

Genuinely it’ll make things worse in Scotland - the fact that Paranoia FC have suffered 2 really bad hand call decisions early on will just set the tone.

[flash]

I would get rid of it tomorrow if it was up to me.

All we have now is two layers of incompetent clowns making decisions.

The referee on the park doesn't give anything now and waits for VAR to bail him out if necessary.

They also never look at the pictures and stick to their guns.

Worst of all we now get numerous momentum killing stoppages while they try their best to find fault in goals and make ludicrous calls like Tony Watt and Friday's penalty.

It's murder and it needs to get in the bin.

[CentreLine]

So does the Aberdeen player get cited for diving. And if not why not?

[Alfred E Newman]

There is bound to be a large reduction in penalties saved as well. No argument that Marshall was off his line just as most keepers are when they pull off a save but now every saved penalty will be scrutinized and you could find good saves being chalked off if the keeper is only an inch off the line.