Wales national team changing official name to Cymru

[AgentDaleCooper]

Really good move, IMO. I'm there'd be too much pushback for us to change ours to Alba from those that get their knickers in a twist about roadsigns, but good for Wales/Cymru for asserting their cultural heritage.

[Since90+2]

Really good move, IMO. I'm there'd be too much pushback for us to change ours to Alba from those that get their knickers in a twist about roadsigns, but good for Wales/Cymru for asserting their cultural heritage.

Why would we call ourselves Alba? Scotland is the name of our country.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Why would we call ourselves Alba? Scotland is the name of our country.

So is Alba :wink:

[green day]

The Welsh are a funny lot - they pretend to be uber nationalistic, but are basically just another county of England (in everything except sport).

That pretence continues with the welsh languange - if you believed what some of those in the media said, the entire country is going round speaking some unintelligible gibberish, when the truth is that 70% of them dont actually speak Welsh.

[Since90+2]

So is Alba :wink:

To who? What percentage of people in Scotland would say they were from Alba if asked? 0.2%, 0.5%?

[Juniper Greens]

I think historically Gaelic was only spoken in the area of Scotland West of the A9 and north of Cumbernauld?
I have zero issues with it being reintroduced to communities, but I think changing the name of the national team would be a bit odd, given all of the population centres in Scotland spoke Scots or Northumbrian English.

[gbhibby]

So is Alba :wink:
And the Name of Salmonds political party.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

There's certainly been a real cultural awakening in Wales in the last 5 or so years, not unlike Scotland in the mid to late 90s.

Good for them.

[A Hi-Bee]

We could change oor name to Irn Bru, yea,
or Caladonia an drink lots of Irn Bru or McEwans but no say sure even that, is Scottish anymore.

:saltireflag

[Donegal Hibby]

You do know what that means my country will be ? :smug:

[AgentDaleCooper]

I think historically Gaelic was only spoken in the area of Scotland West of the A9 and north of Cumbernauld?
I have zero issues with it being reintroduced to communities, but I think changing the name of the national team would be a bit odd, given all of the population centres in Scotland spoke Scots or Northumbrian English.

Not true, actually - Gaelic placenames can be found all over the south of Scotland. The 'inner' part of 'innerleithen' is the same root as the 'inver' of inverness. 'Garvald' is and anglification of 'Garbh Allt'...these are just examples off the top of my head. The name 'Edinburgh' is Celtic in origin, I think, as is Penicuik, ableit Cumbric, a Celtic language closer to Welsh.

I agree that it's the traditional Gaidhealtachd, north and west of Perth, basically, where Gaelic should be re-introduced.

As a native speaker, however, i do feel a bit envious of the Welsh attitude twards their language. Country, state, nation and culture are all different types of entities, and even though Wales doesn't necessaily have the same appetite for administrative independence, they seem to me to have a much healthier relationship with their own history and culture. As someone else stated - good for them!

[AgentDaleCooper]

And the Name of Salmonds political party.

Yes, and most Gaels resent him for it!

[A Hi-Bee]

You do know what that means my country will be ? :smug:

I have no idea DH, I is trying hard not to be un-PC like, are we going for the Roman name or the many other new and old names of the Emerald Isle. Just out of interest have a wee quick look see at the wikie entry here

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Uniform_and_colonel%E2%80%99s_flag_of_the_Hib ernia_Regiment.jpg

Nice bit o history I never knew about,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiment_of_Hibernia

[dunfyhibby]

You do know what that means my country will be ? :smug:

Hibernia!!! 💚

[Mcbizz1998]

What a piece of nonsense. Welsh people don’t call their country Cymru ffs.

[Donegal Hibby]

I have no idea DH, I is trying hard not to be un-PC like, are we going for the Roman name or the many other new and old names of the Emerald Isle. Just out of interest have a wee quick look see at the wikie entry here

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Uniform_and_colonel%E2%80%99s_flag_of_the_Hib ernia_Regiment.jpg

Nice bit o history I never knew about,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiment_of_Hibernia
Hibernia , now that's a cool name if I ever heard one. :wink:

[Ringothedog]

What a piece of nonsense. Welsh people don’t call their country Cymru ffs.

Surely it’s up to the Welsh FA what they call their football team. If they want to call themselves Cymru who are we to argue? If the people of Wales or Cymru are not happy with the change I am sure they will make their opinion known

[Mcbizz1998]

Surely it’s up to the Welsh FA what they call their football team. If they want to call themselves Cymru who are we to argue? If the people of Wales or Cymru are not happy with the change I am sure they will make their opinion known

No arguments, just opinion. Everyone will continue to call them Wales regardless so yeah, let them crack on with it I suppose [emoji106]

[Donegal Hibby]

I have no idea DH, I is trying hard not to be un-PC like, are we going for the Roman name or the many other new and old names of the Emerald Isle. Just out of interest have a wee quick look see at the wikie entry here

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Uniform_and_colonel%E2%80%99s_flag_of_the_Hib ernia_Regiment.jpg

Nice bit o history I never knew about,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiment_of_Hibernia
Roman name I like the best though we have had lots over the centuries .
https://www.irishpost.com/life-style/irelands-many-names-and-their-meanings-90875

[Musselbound]

The Welsh are a funny lot - they pretend to be uber nationalistic, but are basically just another county of England (in everything except sport).

That pretence continues with the welsh languange - if you believed what some of those in the media said, the entire country is going round speaking some unintelligible gibberish, when the truth is that 70% of them dont actually speak Welsh.

English is also unintelligible gibberish to those who don't understand it.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think historically Gaelic was only spoken in the area of Scotland West of the A9 and north of Cumbernauld?
I have zero issues with it being reintroduced to communities, but I think changing the name of the national team would be a bit odd, given all of the population centres in Scotland spoke Scots or Northumbrian English.

Gaelic was the language of the Highlands, so basically North of a line from Bowling to Stonehaven.


https://images.app.goo.gl/KoxdxdSrM78N1ygV6

[PHeffernan]

After the World Cup they could change their name to Closebutnocigargogogo

As the Proclaimers sang
Bale no more, Ramsay no more, Hennessey no more, Allen no more, Gunter no more

Almost 500 appearances between the 5 of them including the top 3 most capped Welshmen

[Iain G]

I thought Alba made cheap TV's and Radios 😁

[Forza Fred]

No arguments, just opinion. Everyone will continue to call them Wales regardless so yeah, let them crack on with it I suppose [emoji106]

I said the same about Rhodesia, Yugoslavia, Tanganyka, and a few more.

[Since90+2]

I said the same about Rhodesia, Yugoslavia, Tanganyka, and a few more.

They never just changed their football team name though.

[tamig]

Not true, actually - Gaelic placenames can be found all over the south of Scotland. The 'inner' part of 'innerleithen' is the same root as the 'inver' of inverness. 'Garvald' is and anglification of 'Garbh Allt'...these are just examples off the top of my head. The name 'Edinburgh' is Celtic in origin, I think, as is Penicuik, ableit Cumbric, a Celtic language closer to Welsh.

I agree that it's the traditional Gaidhealtachd, north and west of Perth, basically, where Gaelic should be re-introduced.

As a native speaker, however, i do feel a bit envious of the Welsh attitude twards their language. Country, state, nation and culture are all different types of entities, and even though Wales doesn't necessaily have the same appetite for administrative independence, they seem to me to have a much healthier relationship with their own history and culture. As someone else stated - good for them!
What do you mean by it being reintroduced? Why should it be foisted upon anyone? There are gaelic schools across the country so the choice is there for folk who feel that way inclined. Its a bit of a bugbear of mine that gaelic names are now emblazoned on police cars and ambulances. Why?

[green day]

English is also unintelligible gibberish to those who don't understand it.

I would wager that there are no people in Wales who can't speak English though, so that is a bit of a moot point.

[Springbank]

This is the kind of discussion that tends to find people out. Like when the pro-European majority gently ask:

Is it possible that a harmful Nationalist might just be the person who booted you out the world's biggest international Single Market, and removed your kids' international Freedom of Movement?

And is it possible that the people trying to get that all back, via European reunification, is where internationalists like Keir Hardie would be today?

I'm all for Cymru choosing this name. Hardline British Nationalism (call it unionism or loyalism or Hard Brexit Nationalism, its the same thing) is making us all poorer

[Since452]

If the majority of Welsh people want it to change then change it. Good on them. It's their country, their football team etc. Changing it without any feedback or consultation might be a bit of a strange move imo.

[Stairway 2 7]

This is the kind of discussion that tends to find people out. Like when the pro-European majority gently ask:

Is it possible that a harmful Nationalist might just be the person who booted you out the world's biggest international Single Market, and removed your kids' international Freedom of Movement?

And is it possible that the people trying to get that all back, via European reunification, is where internationalists like Keir Hardie would be today?

I'm all for Cymru choosing this name. Hardline British Nationalism (call it unionism or loyalism or Hard Brexit Nationalism, its the same thing) is making us all poorer

My nationalism is good your nationalism is bad ha. All nationalism is a load of pish, get rid of all borders, they are made up.

[Mcbizz1998]

This is the kind of discussion that tends to find people out. Like when the pro-European majority gently ask:

Is it possible that a harmful Nationalist might just be the person who booted you out the world's biggest international Single Market, and removed your kids' international Freedom of Movement?

And is it possible that the people trying to get that all back, via European reunification, is where internationalists like Keir Hardie would be today?

I'm all for Cymru choosing this name. Hardline British Nationalism (call it unionism or loyalism or Hard Brexit Nationalism, its the same thing) is making us all poorer

What pro-European majority is this? It’s certainly not in Cymru!

[Hibby Bairn]

What do you mean by it being reintroduced? Why should it be foisted upon anyone? There are gaelic schools across the country so the choice is there for folk who feel that way inclined. Its a bit of a bugbear of mine that gaelic names are now emblazoned on police cars and ambulances. Why?

Clearly it's in case you only speak Gaelic and you don't understand what a police car or ambulance looks like especially when you need to with its blue flashing lights on.

Really important that the Gaelic word is emblazoned to help these very people.

#loadapish

[ClermistonGreen]

Has anyone asked the actual Whales 🐳 what they think of this ?

:thumbsup:

[superfurryhibby]

My nationalism is good your nationalism is bad ha. All nationalism is a load of pish, get rid of all borders, they are made up.

Tell that to the Ukrainians.

I can’t really see the logic, but obviously the Welsh FA feel this will appeal to more than the 30% or so that speak Cymric.

Given that rugby is such a big sport in Wales, perhaps this is less about any nationalistic feelings and more about giving the football team an identity that appeals to a broader Welsh audience?

As a wee aside, Gaelic was spoken across a much wider area than some have given credit. Obviously over hundreds of years during the making of the Kingdom, the fortunes of the language ebbed and flowed outside of the heartlands. However, place names give some idea and there is no doubt that areas like Galloway and Ayrshire had Gaelic speaking common folk, as must areas like West Aberdeenshire, Kincardineshire. There are place names in Lothian, the Central belt, Fife, although perhaps associated with social elites rather than suggestive of widespread use. One good example is the parish of Temple in Midlothian. Early records give the name as Ballintradoch, an Anglicised version of a Gaelic name, meaning “stead of the warriors”. Very apt given the parish was owned by the KnightTemplar who had their preceptory there ( which can still be seen today).

[jacomo]

The Welsh are a funny lot - they pretend to be uber nationalistic, but are basically just another county of England (in everything except sport).

That pretence continues with the welsh languange - if you believed what some of those in the media said, the entire country is going round speaking some unintelligible gibberish, when the truth is that 70% of them dont actually speak Welsh.


This is deeply unfair.

Welsh language and culture was deliberately suppressed and indeed punished over generations. It’s great to see Wales regain national pride and confidence.

Kids in school today across wales now learn Welsh, whereas beforehand Welsh speakers were told to speak English.

There is no real comparison with Gaelic, which hasn’t been a widely spoken language for a very long time.

[Rumble de Thump]

This is deeply unfair.

Welsh language and culture was deliberately suppressed and indeed punished over generations. It’s great to see Wales regain national pride and confidence.

Kids in school today across wales now learn Welsh, whereas beforehand Welsh speakers were told to speak English.

There is no real comparison with Gaelic, which hasn’t been a widely spoken language for a very long time.

The Gaelic language was suppressed and outlawed so that would be the comparison.

[superfurryhibby]

The Gaelic language was suppressed and outlawed so that would be the comparison.

I have a pal who is from a Gaelic speaking family from Wester Ross. First language as a child was Gaelic. Went to primary school in the50’s and if bairns used any Gaelic words in class they were belted.

[Stairway 2 7]

Tell that to the Ukrainians.

I can’t really see the logic, but obviously the Welsh FA feel this will appeal to more than the 30% or so that speak Cymric.

Given that rugby is such a big sport in Wales, perhaps this is less about any nationalistic feelings and more about giving the football team an identity that appeals to a broader Welsh audience?

As a wee aside, Gaelic was spoken across a much wider area than some have given credit. Obviously over hundreds of years during the making of the Kingdom, the fortunes of the language ebbed and flowed outside of the heartlands. However, place names give some idea and there is no doubt that areas like Galloway and Ayrshire had Gaelic speaking common folk, as must areas like West Aberdeenshire, Kincardineshire. There are place names in Lothian, the Central belt, Fife, although perhaps associated with social elites rather than suggestive of widespread use. One good example is the parish of Temple in Midlothian. Early records give the name as Ballintradoch, an Anglicised version of a Gaelic name, meaning “stead of the warriors”. Very apt given the parish was owned by the KnightTemplar who had their preceptory there ( which can still be seen today).

Need to tell it to Putin not Ukrainians. He's spoilt it by being nationalistic, bit like the arse hole tories. I'd wished the EU would expand and become stronger and one, I probably still will but without England.

I've more in common with the Spanish and Dutch pals I've got than a private school lad from edin or a hun from airdrie. Gaelic place names are in Edinburgh but it was never predominant. Scots was the main language for over 500 years. Edin has Scots, Gaelic, English, viking and roman place names, maybe we should have our signs in all they languages

[happiehibbie]

Deary Me, That is all.

[Iain G]

Looking forward to visiting New South Cymru next time I am in Aussie 😁

[SlickShoes]

The Welsh are a funny lot - they pretend to be uber nationalistic, but are basically just another county of England (in everything except sport).

That pretence continues with the welsh languange - if you believed what some of those in the media said, the entire country is going round speaking some unintelligible gibberish, when the truth is that 70% of them dont actually speak Welsh.

Pretty offensive way to talk about another language. No need for it, really; just because you don't understand it doesn't make it gibberish.

[Scotty Leither]

Fair play to them - although it seems to have generated the same discourse on here as a good old “flag debate” does.

On a related note I wish Scotland would drop “Flower of Scotland” as our national anthem. A large number who sing it only want “to be a nation again” until the final whistle.

“90 minute nationalists” the late Ian Archer (I think) used to call them.

[green day]

Pretty offensive way to talk about another language. No need for it, really; just because you don't understand it doesn't make it gibberish.

Its a forum, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

Dyna fywyd............as 70% of Welsh people wouldnt say.:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Fair play to them - although it seems to have generated the same discourse on here as a good old “flag debate” does.

On a related note I wish Scotland would drop “Flower of Scotland” as our national anthem. A large number who sing it only want “to be a nation again” until the final whistle.

“90 minute nationalists” the late Ian Archer (I think) used to call them.

I'd drop it because like God save the queen it's crap and a dirge. Your wanting the French or Italian straight into battle anthems

[hibby rae]

My nationalism is good your nationalism is bad ha. All nationalism is a load of pish, get rid of all borders, they are made up.

Is cultural nationalism a load of pish?

[Stairway 2 7]

Is cultural nationalism a load of pish?

Well my opinion is as good as yours, but in mine yes.

[Mcbizz1998]

Fair play to them - although it seems to have generated the same discourse on here as a good old “flag debate” does.

On a related note I wish Scotland would drop “Flower of Scotland” as our national anthem. A large number who sing it only want “to be a nation again” until the final whistle.

“90 minute nationalists” the late Ian Archer (I think) used to call them.

Good idea.

God Save the King it is then.

[AgentDaleCooper]

This is deeply unfair.

Welsh language and culture was deliberately suppressed and indeed punished over generations. It’s great to see Wales regain national pride and confidence.

Kids in school today across wales now learn Welsh, whereas beforehand Welsh speakers were told to speak English.

There is no real comparison with Gaelic, which hasn’t been a widely spoken language for a very long time.

there is actually a direct comparison with Gaelic there. It has been systematically supressed for hundreds of years, from the Statutes of Iona and before. It's a complex history, and there's a huge amount of class politics to account for its' demise as well, but among historians, it's generally accepted that Gaelic has been subjected to a kind of cultural genocide.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I have a pal who is from a Gaelic speaking family from Wester Ross. First language as a child was Gaelic. Went to primary school in the50’s and if bairns used any Gaelic words in class they were belted.

Exactly my dad's experience.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Clearly it's in case you only speak Gaelic and you don't understand what a police car or ambulance looks like especially when you need to with its blue flashing lights on.

Really important that the Gaelic word is emblazoned to help these very people.

#loadapish

or it might have something to do with promoting an endangered but highly important element of our culture?

i don't actually necessarily think that having Gaelic on police cars and ambulances is necessarily the best way to go about it, mainly because people who know nothing about the language and its history are quite primed to have knee jerk reactions to it :aok:

#snowflake :wink:

[AgentDaleCooper]

What do you mean by it being reintroduced? Why should it be foisted upon anyone? There are gaelic schools across the country so the choice is there for folk who feel that way inclined. Its a bit of a bugbear of mine that gaelic names are now emblazoned on police cars and ambulances. Why?

well, i think it should be taught in schools across the highlands as a subject, as a bare minimum - ideally, Gaelic Medium Education should be available to anyone in the highlands if they should want their children to access it.

R.e. police cars and ambulances, as I posted above, it's to promote an endangered language. I can see that it isn't necessarily the most effective strategy, but it's also completely harmless, and I think peoples' reactions against it are just as daft, if not more so, than their presence in the first place. Definitely more important things to be bothered by.

[Iain G]

Good idea.

God Save the King it is then.

What do we replace it with? 😁

(Places explosive and retreats to safe distance...)

[Lago]

What do we replace it with? 😁

(Places explosive and retreats to safe distance...)
Get Billy Kay to write a new anthem in Scots 😂

[Torto7]

The Brit Nat cringe in all its loathsome quality on full display here by some of the usual suspects. Gaelic due to being associated with Scottish Catholics/Highlanders was deliberately suppressed for sectarian/Anglicisation reasons. Its a stain on this countries history how those people were brutally supressed. Take a wee visit to the famine wall.

Tragic that modern day Scots still loosely display this bigotry but not entirely surprising.

Gaelic as has already been mentioned was spoken in the lowlands as it was the tongue of the Kings court, over time the Monarchs introduced Flemish/Germanic influences which came to be modern day Scots.

Years of government smearing cartoons about barbaric taigs in the highlands were common at the time and the COS was complicit as well.

I want Fife to return to being called Fib, its true Pictish name. Good on Cymru.

[Hibby Bairn]

The Brit Nat cringe in all its loathsome quality on full display here by some of the usual suspects. Gaelic due to being associated with Scottish Catholics/Highlanders was deliberately suppressed for sectarian/Anglicisation reasons. Its a stain on this countries history how those people were brutally supressed. Take a wee visit to the famine wall.

Tragic that modern day Scots still loosely display this bigotry but not entirely surprising.

Gaelic as has already been mentioned was spoken in the lowlands as it was the tongue of the Kings court, over time the Monarchs introduced Flemish/Germanic influences which came to be modern day Scots.

Years of government smearing cartoons about barbaric taigs in the highlands were common at the time and the COS was complicit as well.

I want Fife to return to being called Fib, its true Pictish name. Good on Cymru.

It isn't bigotry or British nationalism. I understand the historical perspective and have learned quite a bit more on this thread this morning.

It's just for some/many folk they just see it as a complete waste of time, effort and money. Putting gaelic on ambulances, police cars, rail stations. Even BBC Alba. Around 1% of the population can speak gaelic (but more likely use English everyday). This is around the same as the numbers who speak Polish. The numbers are actually declining as far as I am aware.

I just can't see the practical point in it at all.

Anyway. Bigger things to worry about. 👍🙃

[AgentDaleCooper]

It isn't bigotry or British nationalism. I understand the historical perspective and have learned quite a bit more on this thread this morning.

It's just for some/many folk they just see it as a complete waste of time, effort and money. Putting gaelic on ambulances, police cars, rail stations. Even BBC Alba. Around 1% of the population can speak gaelic (but more likely use English everyday). This is around the same as the numbers who speak Polish. The numbers are actually declining as far as I am aware.

I just can't see the practical point in it at all.

Anyway. Bigger things to worry about. ����

if you can't see the point in preventing a culture from going out of existence, then I can only assume that you know absolutely nothing about it, and probably very little about any cultures other than mainstream anglo-american culture.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. Cultural homogenisation across the globe is not a good thing.

[AgentDaleCooper]

The Brit Nat cringe in all its loathsome quality on full display here by some of the usual suspects. Gaelic due to being associated with Scottish Catholics/Highlanders was deliberately suppressed for sectarian/Anglicisation reasons. Its a stain on this countries history how those people were brutally supressed. Take a wee visit to the famine wall.

Tragic that modern day Scots still loosely display this bigotry but not entirely surprising.

Gaelic as has already been mentioned was spoken in the lowlands as it was the tongue of the Kings court, over time the Monarchs introduced Flemish/Germanic influences which came to be modern day Scots.

Years of government smearing cartoons about barbaric taigs in the highlands were common at the time and the COS was complicit as well.

I want Fife to return to being called Fib, its true Pictish name. Good on Cymru.

:top marks

[CockneyRebel]

I have a pal who is from a Gaelic speaking family from Wester Ross. First language as a child was Gaelic. Went to primary school in the50’s and if bairns used any Gaelic words in class they were belted.



Quite right. Upstarts! :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

Deh ken what awe the fuss is aboot. It's a bit like if Hibs got the stadium sponsored, who wouldn't still call it Easter Road if they support Hibs?

As for folk speaking Welsh, I have a pal whose husband is from south Cymru, he doesn't speak Welsh, that I'm aware of, but I still can't understand a bloody word he says :greengrin

That aside I can't see the harm in promoting different languages, there's a wee bit of me that would definitely see the funny side if every kid in Scotland could speak Gaelic and used that skill to confuse tourists and the like, not to mention their parents.

On a serious note, I see the we should do away with all borders trope being trotted out. That's a fine sentiment, but then you also have to consider that for it to work it would require the world to be constantly governed by a series of benevolent governments for ever and come the day it wasn't where would the persecuted run to in a world with no national borders?

Borders might be an artificial construct, the never ending ability of human beings to find reasons to persecute each other unfortunately isn't and until the day they find a cure for that perhaps borders and countries might not be such a bad thing.

[Scotty Leither]

Good idea.

God Save the King it is then.

“Cap in Hand” by the Proclaimers would be my choice.

As for “Flower of Scotland” being sung by a Murrayfield rugby crowd, well that’s just another level of irony and collective self-awareness bypass.

[Mcbizz1998]

“Cap in Hand” by the Proclaimers would be my choice.

Oh I’m sure it is [emoji23]

[hibby rae]

Well my opinion is as good as yours, but in mine yes.

It's just that cultural nationalism was integral to the ability to form a black identity in the US, UK etc given there was no shared heritage or history from which they could draw on.

So yeah, that's not pish to me

[NAE NOOKIE]

“Cap in Hand” by the Proclaimers would be my choice.

As for “Flower of Scotland” being sung by a Murrayfield rugby crowd, well that’s just another level of irony and collective self-awareness bypass.

Cap in hand is a great choice mate :aok: ... Mind you, practically anything that replaces FOS would be a good choice, it's a bloody dirge.

[Scotty Leither]

Oh I’m sure it is [emoji23]

“Cap in Hand” has got a bit of everything…a Hibs reference (good for pissing off the Jambos), some introspection about the Scottish psyche, and a wee dig at the Scots self-loathing (as evidenced on this thread).

[Mcbizz1998]

“Cap in Hand” has got a bit of everything…a Hibs reference (good for pissing off the Jambos), some introspection about the Scottish psyche, and a wee dig at the Scots self-loathing (as evidenced on this thread).

Ah yes, anyone who doesn’t agree with you on Scottish independence is self loathing - As well as shouldn’t be singing their own national anthem.

You lost mate, it’s been 8 years.

[Scotty Leither]

Ah yes, anyone who doesn’t agree with you on Scottish independence is self loathing - As well as shouldn’t be singing their own national anthem.

You lost mate, it’s been 8 years.

Aye whatever, pal…

Away and put your heid back in the soup pot.

[Mcbizz1998]

Aye whatever, pal…

Away and put your heid back in the soup pot.

Haha! There we go! [emoji23]

Amazing stuff.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's just that cultural nationalism was integral to the ability to form a black identity in the US, UK etc given there was no shared heritage or history from which they could draw on.

So yeah, that's not pish to me

In how did that work out in America asking for a disenfranchised black youth, doubt a lot of them want to wave the star spangled banner

[Stairway 2 7]

“Cap in Hand” has got a bit of everything…a Hibs reference (good for pissing off the Jambos), some introspection about the Scottish psyche, and a wee dig at the Scots self-loathing (as evidenced on this thread).

A anthem that 50% of the population disagree with is just daft. My one request of a national anthem would be to not mention or insinuate anything about England. Its wee man syndrome. I'd prefer upbeat like the French and lyrics saying how Barry we are, prefer to mention Alexander Fleming or Kenny Dalglish than Wallace and Edward

[superfurryhibby]

Need to tell it to Putin not Ukrainians. He's spoilt it by being nationalistic, bit like the arse hole tories. I'd wished the EU would expand and become stronger and one, I probably still will but without England.

I've more in common with the Spanish and Dutch pals I've got than a private school lad from edin or a hun from airdrie. Gaelic place names are in Edinburgh but it was never predominant. Scots was the main language for over 500 years. Edin has Scots, Gaelic, English, viking and roman place names, maybe we should have our signs in all they languages

I was trying, not very well, to imply that Ukraine became and remain a nation due to their people's sense strong of nationhood.

The same rationale applies to the likes of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia. It's about self determination and the breaking of the last vestiges of imperialism.

Across Europe we have people stiving to regain nationhood, in places like Scotland, Catalonia and there is a huge difference between democratic, civic nationalism and the rampant aggressive imperialist nationalism of the likes Russia.

FWIW, I find the Gaelic ambulance and Police names pretty tokenistic. Road signs in the Highlands and Western Isles etc, fair enough.

Given the SNP's desire to please minority interests (see crazier aspects of proposed gender recognition act) I wouldn't be shocked to find that they would like the national team to be more inclusive and have a dual name. No doubt the SFA would tell them to GTF

[superfurryhibby]

In how did that work out in America asking for a disenfranchised black youth, doubt a lot of them want to wave the star spangled banner

Civil rights movement, Black Power, BLM?

You seem to be confusing legitimate pride and markers of cultural identity with flag waving, right wing lunatics.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It's just that cultural nationalism was integral to the ability to form a black identity in the US, UK etc given there was no shared heritage or history from which they could draw on.

So yeah, that's not pish to me

Indeed. There's a pile of examples from history of people's cultural identity being stifled and oppressed by colonialists and the like in order to impose their version of civilization ..... stuff that was perpetrated by the colonists, lets face it us, in the likes of Canada and Australia right into the latter days of the 20th century was nothing less than cultural and sometimes literal genocide. Attempts to preserve language and cultural identity are always worthwhile. But the word here is preserve, or even promote .... it should however never be impose.

Whenever I see a native American ... first nation American? ..... interviewed on the telly and their name is something like Bob Smith or Brenda Jones I always think if that was me I would be doing the Malcolm X thing and changing my name to something more traditional like 'slight drizzle' or 'falling leaf' that kind of thing :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Civil rights movement, Black Power, BLM?

You seem to be confusing legitimate pride and markers of cultural identity with flag waving, right wing lunatics.
Nah I'm just saying its tokenism. Taking people in boats away from there own nation and then saying your one of us now. Suppose its different for people who have moved somewhere through choice, but most I've met are more internationalist and don't really care for collective nationalism

[weecounty hibby]

I'd drop it because like God save the queen it's crap and a dirge. Your wanting the French or Italian straight into battle anthems

La Marseillaise talks about drenching French fields with impure Prussian blood!! The Italian anthem mentions Austria, Poland and Cossacks. Old nations in Europe are most likely to have verses about victory over others. Even the English anthem with the iften disputed "rebellious Scots to Crush" line, so what? I hope that when, not if, we become independent we choose another anthem. The "newer" nations like Australia and Advance Australia Fair or South Africa post apartheid are good examples.

[Moulin Yarns]

Scotland's Story by the proclaimers please, if you want an inclusive anthem.

[Stairway 2 7]

La Marseillaise talks about drenching French fields with impure Prussian blood!! The Italian anthem mentions Austria, Poland and Cossacks. Old nations in Europe are most likely to have verses about victory over others. Even the English anthem with the iften disputed "rebellious Scots to Crush" line, so what? I hope that when, not if, we become independent we choose another anthem. The "newer" nations like Australia and Advance Australia Fair or South Africa post apartheid are good examples.

That's why I said uplifting tune like the French, but positive lyrics building up ourselves and not talking about other nations

[Stairway 2 7]

Scotland's Story by the proclaimers please, if you want an inclusive anthem.

I'd be happy with that 👏

[Iain G]

Scotland's Story by the proclaimers please, if you want an inclusive anthem.

Nicola wouldn't like it, it's not anti-English enough for her tastes :greengrin

[Just Alf]

Nicola wouldn't like it, it's not anti-English enough for her tastes :greengrin

:slipper:









:greengrin

[stuart-farquhar]

I'm Cymru watching in the Atlantic right now. Nothing so far. Cymrus can be difficult to spot.

[SaulGoodman]

English is also unintelligible gibberish to those who don't understand it.

Read rhymes with lead, and read rhymes with lead, but read and lead don’t rhyme, and neither do read and lead

[Kato]

if every kid in Scotland could speak Gaelic and used that skill to confuse tourists and the like


To be fair we don't really need Gaelic to do that.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Phil MaGlass]

To who? What percentage of people in Scotland would say they were from Alba if asked? 0.2%, 0.5%?

Ive said it a few times, if that counts.

[chippy]

What if the Republic of Ireland wanted to re name their national football team Hibernia?

[Iain G]

Ive said it a few times, if that counts.

You, and the Fat Jambo with the wandering hands then, so that's 2 🤣 😁

[heretoday]

I'm looking forward to the first mispronounciation of cymru by badly briefed commentators.

[AgentDaleCooper]

What if the Republic of Ireland wanted to re name their national football team Hibernia?

Unlikely unless there's a great big latin revival over there :aok:

[chippy]

Unlikely unless there's a great big latin revival over there :aok:

Nice one

[Donegal Hibby]

Unlikely unless there's a great big latin revival over there :aok:
Im opus in eo . Grandescunt aucta labore :greengrin

[Dalianwanda]

What if the Republic of Ireland wanted to re name their national football team Hibernia?

Was listening to a radio debate on it ,well being renamed Eire. Most seemed in favour without being too bothered.

[chippy]

Im opus in eo . Grandescunt aucta labore :greengrin

Dear Celtic brother, could you translate as i missed out on a classical education

[Donegal Hibby]

Dear Celtic brother, could you translate as i missed out on a classical education
I'm working on it and by hard work all things increase and grow

[Musselbound]

Read rhymes with lead, and read rhymes with lead, but read and lead don’t rhyme, and neither do read and lead

There you go!

[AgentDaleCooper]

Read rhymes with lead, and read rhymes with lead, but read and lead don’t rhyme, and neither do read and lead

Worth noting also that fish fish fish fish fish fish fish, while Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

[tamig]

well, i think it should be taught in schools across the highlands as a subject, as a bare minimum - ideally, Gaelic Medium Education should be available to anyone in the highlands if they should want their children to access it.

R.e. police cars and ambulances, as I posted above, it's to promote an endangered language. I can see that it isn't necessarily the most effective strategy, but it's also completely harmless, and I think peoples' reactions against it are just as daft, if not more so, than their presence in the first place. Definitely more important things to be bothered by.
I just think the police/ambulance thing is an unnecessary waste of cash. Especially when you consider today’s announcements from Holyrood. Sure there are worse things happening at the moment - but its just something that niggles me.

[Phil MaGlass]

https://www.thenational.scot/comment/23097425.fact-checking-myth-busting-scotlands-languages/

[Carheenlea]

My youngest daughter has spells of trying to learn Irish Gaelic with her mum simply as a result of all her cousins learning the language at their schools as part of the curriculum.

My wife’s not what you would call fluent by any stretch, but has the basics simply through learning at primary school. I doubt there’s the appetite for Scottish Gaelic to be taught nationwide in schools (I think there is a difference?) but ultimately learning a new language is no bad thing for childrens education. It may encourage more to learn different languages as they progress through life. I wish I did.

[AgentDaleCooper]

https://www.thenational.scot/comment/23097425.fact-checking-myth-busting-scotlands-languages/

subscription required and I'm a scaff...any chance you could paste it on here?

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not sure I'm getting the issue here.

If the Welsh change their name, the English-speaking world will still call them Wales, as that's the English word for the country. We don't use the native words for ( for example) Croatia, Sweden and the Netherlands, so we wouldn't use it for Wales.

[Phil MaGlass]

LANGUAGES
Fact-checking and myth-busting of Scotland's languages
9 hrs ago
By Alasdair Allan MSP




6 Comments
Alasdair Allan MSP was Minister for Science, Learning and Scotland’s Languages from 2011 to 2016
Alasdair Allan MSP was Minister for Science, Learning and Scotland’s Languages from 2011 to 2016
I HAVE long since stopped trying to reason with those troubled souls who have a problem with the fact that we have two indigenous minority languages.

I think, for instance, of the disgraceful trolling to which the distinguished writer and broadcaster Billy Kay was recently subjected for speaking in Scots at the Scottish Parliament’s “time for reflection” slot. I am also aware of the small but zealous online communities dedicated to hunting down and slaying Gaelic road signs.

I realise it is best to ignore some things that you see online, rather than to engage.

Rather than answer this nonsense directly, it’s best just to point out that there is a huge amount that is positive to be said about both Scots and Gaelic.

We should now just get on with continuing to support them. The Scottish Government’s present consultation on a bill on Scotland’s languages provides just such an opportunity to develop these two vital, and still under-appreciated, parts of our national life and culture.

All that said, perhaps a little fact-checking and myth-busting would do no harm, just to get the debate rolling.

Here are a few random examples of what I mean.

Not everyone who writes wholly or partly in Scots is an independence activist. Sir Walter Scott and John Buchan were both Unionists, not that either would probably be welcome in the Scottish Tory party today.

The National: Walter Scott was a firm lover of Scots but not a Nationalist
Walter Scott was a firm lover of Scots but not a Nationalist (Image: -)
Gaelic is not an “island thing”. There were Gaelic speakers in Deeside 60 years ago, and in Galloway 500 years ago.

Scots does not descend from English, or vice-versa – the languages are cousins and if you are all in favour of reading Scotland’s literature, but are against the Scots language, then please stop torturing yourself, as you are not going to square that particular circle.

Public services provided through the medium of Gaelic are still massively overshadowed by services in English – even in the islands. Gaelic-related expenditure, contrary to what some imagine, represents a miniscule share of Scotland’s budget.

People who complain that Gaelic is being “shoved down their throat”, generally because they can’t manage to avert their eyes quickly enough from some offending road sign, need to speak to some of my older neighbours. They will explain how they still recall being belted by teachers on a near-daily basis in primary one, simply because they had been overheard in the playground speaking the only language they knew – Gaelic.

Among the many practical questions that will need to be faced, as we go forward, are whether the existing 2005 legislation around Gaelic is strong enough and whether we need to have differing policies, tailored to the different kinds of Gaelic communities that exist around Scotland.

We also need to ask if Scots needs a degree of corpus planning to allow its wider written use in schools, outside creative writing.

We must consider how we can move beyond assumptions that culture, education, and the media are the only areas of public life to have a role in encouraging the use of Gaelic. What about other parts of the public sector, particularly in the Highlands and Islands?

We need to think about what we can do to make more young Scots aware of the literature that Scotland has produced in Scots, Gaelic and indeed English.

How can we “mainstream” the use of Gaelic in communities which are fragile and how do wider policies, such as housing, impact on the use of both Scots and Gaelic?

We have a long way to go before learning languages is seen as quite that normal in Scotland.

READ MORE: The National is showcasing Scots and Gaelic ahead of Language Bill consultation

I was on a train recently between Luxembourg and Brussels. Whenever required, the man selling sandwiches in the aisle of the train spoke to his customers variously in Luxembourgish, French, English, Dutch and German. He would have been astonished, I am sure, if someone had tried to tell him that he didn’t need Luxembourgish in that mix.

The way we treat our own linguistic inheritance in Scotland will affect our view of the wider language world.

Whatever the views that people feed into the consultation, I hope Scotland emerges as a country where we recognise more fully that speaking multiple languages is not a curiosity or a party trick – it is normal.

However, a good place to start is by continuing to build respect for the languages over which we, as a country, have been given unique custody.

Alasdair Allan is MSP for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (The Western Isles). He has an MA in Scottish Language and Literature, and a PhD in Scots language. He was Minister for Science, Learning and Scotland’s Languages from 2011 to 2016

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Im opus in eo . Grandescunt aucta labore :greengrin

Quite surprised that that got past the swear filter!😀

[nonshinyfinish]

Quite surprised that that got past the swear filter!😀

Presumably it's been tweaked to allow things like Scunthorpe (which in the past wouldn't have made it).