Mindset

[Donegal Hibby]

Lee Johnson has stated in a paper that players have a mental block when playing the old firm as they are use to losing to them also says I think we were beaten before we went into game. Could there be there be something in this btw ? Article is quite interesting I think . Its titled ' you basically come out of the womb and told Celtic and rangers are amazing ' it's in the Scotsman

[HoboHarry]

That's what made Sir Awex so different in Scotland. Didn't give a rats erse who Aberdeen were playing, he expected a win and any player not of that mindset got launched Pronto.

[SJNB Hibby]

Lee Johnson has stated in a paper that players have a mental block when playing the old firm as they are use to losing to them also says I think we were beaten before we went into game. Could there be there be something in this btw ? Article is quite interesting I think . Its titled ' you basically come out of the womb and told Celtic and rangers are amazing ' it's in the Scotsman
I had us down for a 4-1defeat. It's not just the players
I have total admiration for the fans that turn up at parkhead season after season

[Yorkshire HFC]

That's what made Sir Awex so different in Scotland. Didn't give a rats erse who Aberdeen were playing, he expected a win and any player not of that mindset got launched Pronto.

That's one of the reasons I was disappointed that it didn't work out for Jack Ross - I really thought he was trying to change things in this regard.

It makes me wonder (again) what goes on behind the scenes at Hibs - do Hibs employ sports phycologists to try and improve the mindset of the players? The players must have grown up with a must win attitude - I can't believe you get to be a professional footballer without having that inside you. And I can't believe that they lose it when they come to Hibs.

Maybe Hibs should get the Scotland cricket coaches on board - they beat the West Indies in the World Cup a few days ago - and they're a bigger name in sport than Celtic and Rangers.

[Since452]

That's what made Sir Awex so different in Scotland. Didn't give a rats erse who Aberdeen were playing, he expected a win and any player not of that mindset got launched Pronto.

If Sir Alex was managing Aberdeen in his pomp now they'd get ragdolled by the old firm 9 times out of 10. The gap is way bigger than it was back in the 80's.

[oneone73]

Lee Johnson has stated in a paper that players have a mental block when playing the old firm as they are use to losing to them also says I think we were beaten before we went into game. Could there be there be something in this btw ? Article is quite interesting I think . Its titled ' you basically come out of the womb and told Celtic and rangers are amazing ' it's in the Scotsman
How does that excuse the likes of Newell, Kenneh and McKirdy?

[Brightside]

Lee Johnson has stated in a paper that players have a mental block when playing the old firm as they are use to losing to them also says I think we were beaten before we went into game. Could there be there be something in this btw ? Article is quite interesting I think . Its titled ' you basically come out of the womb and told Celtic and rangers are amazing ' it's in the Scotsman

Not for me. We’ve had plenty good results v Rangers recently. Celtic are just very good in the final 3rd right now.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Maybe told that Rangers and Celtc are amazing, but it's a personal choice to believe it or not.

[Sioux]

Maybe told that Rangers and Celtc are amazing, but it's a personal choice to believe it or not.

Not when its drummed into you at age 8.

[Colr]

That's one of the reasons I was disappointed that it didn't work out for Jack Ross - I really thought he was trying to change things in this regard.

It makes me wonder (again) what goes on behind the scenes at Hibs - do Hibs employ sports phycologists to try and improve the mindset of the players? The players must have grown up with a must win attitude - I can't believe you get to be a professional footballer without having that inside you. And I can't believe that they lose it when they come to Hibs.

Maybe Hibs should get the Scotland cricket coaches on board - they beat the West Indies in the World Cup a few days ago - and they're a bigger name in sport than Celtic and Rangers.

Pat Fenlon said there was something soft about Hibs. Used to more evident than it is now but against the OF you see it again.

[Colr]

If Sir Alex was managing Aberdeen in his pomp now they'd get ragdolled by the old firm 9 times out of 10. The gap is way bigger than it was back in the 80's.

Premier league set up from the 70s on handed the OF a massive advantage financially. It was setting in the 80s and is baked in now.

[Colr]

Not when its drummed into you at age 8.

Well, if that was the case there wouldn’t be any atheists!

[Sioux]

Well, if that was the case there wouldn’t be any atheists!

The big difference being that the kids can see the impact of R & C with their own eyes.

[GreenGray]

He’s not wrong, and it’s refreshing seeing a manager coming out in the press and saying it!

Unfortunately it’s unlikely/almost impossible that we will ever be able to compete with them giving the difference in budgets and the fact the Scottish whole game is set up for them two.


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[Stubbsy90+2]

That's one of the reasons I was disappointed that it didn't work out for Jack Ross - I really thought he was trying to change things in this regard.

It makes me wonder (again) what goes on behind the scenes at Hibs - do Hibs employ sports phycologists to try and improve the mindset of the players? The players must have grown up with a must win attitude - I can't believe you get to be a professional footballer without having that inside you. And I can't believe that they lose it when they come to Hibs.

Maybe Hibs should get the Scotland cricket coaches on board - they beat the West Indies in the World Cup a few days ago - and they're a bigger name in sport than Celtic and Rangers.

Jack Ross’ record against the OF was pretty poor. If he was trying to change the mindset I’m not sure he was doing a very good job of it.

[A Hi-Bee]

Pretty well known, that the game is won in the tunnel before the players even get to the pitch, another good reason to have a good strong captain standing next to them. Many players over the years at Hibs have said we knew we would win before we got onto the pitch.
:flag::flag::flag:

[Hibernian Verse]

Pretty well known, that the game is won in the tunnel before the players even get to the pitch, another good reason to have a good strong captain standing next to them. Many players over the years at Hibs have said we knew we would win before we got onto the pitch.
:flag::flag::flag:

Sorry but that's not the case.

[Hibs4185]

I would hope the club has psychologists etc coaching the players. Imagine it would make a huge difference to professionals in any sport

[Brightside]

So when the old firm get beat in Europe it’s down to finances and when we get beat by the old firm it’s a poor mindset? Right oh. The spend more on one player than we spend on a full squad. They should be miles ahead of us.

[Pretty Boy]

A positive mindset can only take you so far.

There are obvious benefits to positive visualisation, self belief, self trust etc etc. Ultimately though if you are up against a vastly superior opponent you will lose most of the time. Celtic can have as great a mindset as they like going to the Bernabeu, they will still get hammered. I can visualise myself beating Tyson Fury and holding the world championship aloft, I'd still lose.

I think Johnson does have a point in so far as there is a situation in Scotland where people hold the OF in a state of almost awe. It's not the reason they win he vast majority of trophies on offer though. It's because they have better players and better managers and that's because they have a lot more money.

[B.H.F.C]

Johnson not missed the players, publicly, when reacting to the Celtic game. Be interesting to see what reaction he gets. Does he have a group of players who will roll their sleeves up, look to improve, and prove him wrong. Or will they spit the dummy out and not react well to it. I think most of his comments since have been fair, although he made mistakes himself as well.

[Wilson]

So when the old firm get beat in Europe it’s down to finances and when we get beat by the old firm it’s a poor mindset? Right oh. The spend more on one player than we spend on a full squad. They should be miles ahead of us.

Over a season that will prove true.

In a one off game we are looking to upset the odds.

St Mirren did it and they are even further behind financially.

It is no surprise that we lost. It is a surprise that it was six goals and could have been more. Lee Johnson is right to question at what point did the players accept defeat in this one game.

If it is mindset then work in it. No stone unturned.

I hope the players aren't as accepting of humiliation as some of our fans seem to be.

[easty]

If Sir Alex was managing Aberdeen in his pomp now they'd get ragdolled by the old firm 9 times out of 10. The gap is way bigger than it was back in the 80's.

:agree:

[SlickShoes]

Agree to some extent but there are two teams in the league that operate in a different financial and player quality stratosphere than the rest.

We should be doing better, but I don't think it's as simple as belief. Look at the stats for the last 30 years, it's depressing.

[A Hi-Bee]

Sorry but that's not the case.

Lets just say that you have your take on it and I have mine, if you do know better then care to enlighten us all. I happen to agree with L.J. thinking that he probably knows more about whats going on at Hibs than I do. I would go further to say that this kind of mindset is ingrained in a lot of Scottish culture not just football.
While the mindset will help big time with the fight it has nothing to do with the quality of player on offer. It is just a good starting point. Anything that gets us better in dealing with them has to be a plus in my humble opinion.

:flag::flag::flag:

[Brightside]

Over a season that will prove true.

In a one off game we are looking to upset the odds.

St Mirren did it and they are even further behind financially.

It is no surprise that we lost. It is a surprise that it was six goals and could have been more. Lee Johnson is right to question at what point did the players accept defeat in this one game.

If it is mindset then work in it. No stone unturned.

I hope the players aren't as accepting of humiliation as some of our fans seem to be.

And occasionally we will beat them so thats a one off. I doubt we will get beat 6-1 again under LJ as he will now know he cannot play that open style against Celtic.

[bod]

Pretty well known, that the game is won in the tunnel before the players even get to the pitch, another good reason to have a good strong captain standing next to them. Many players over the years at Hibs have said we knew we would win before we got onto the pitch.
:flag::flag::flag:

Don’t stand in the tunnel,run straight out from the changing room & wait for them on the pitch .The club will only get a warning 1st time

[Yorkshire HFC]

Jack Ross’ record against the OF was pretty poor. If he was trying to change the mindset I’m not sure he was doing a very good job of it.

And that's one of the reasons why he's no longer at Hibs.

[Mcbizz1998]

We didn’t seem to have a mental block v Rangers earlier this season?

Ultimately you can believe you can beat them all you want (and that attitude will help btw) but most of the time you will lose due to the standard of player and depth they have in their squads.
Sad but true.

[Donegal Hibby]

How does that excuse the likes of Newell, Kenneh and McKirdy?
I don't think it should excuse anyone it's after all a team game. My own views on it is maybe we could have been more cautious in our approach to the game rather than trying to match up with them . I'm a LJ fan and had been dreading going there for weeks as I know LJ teams just go out and attack . Felt we should have went maybe 5 at the back ,sat in deep and frustrate the hell out of them while using the speed of Boyle and others on the counter more.As to the mindset of the players you would like to think players going there would have fire in there bellies rather than the thoughts of s***e we are playing Celtic and are going to get beat .The mindsets probably different with every individual in our squad.LJ has now a couple of times spoke about this so he definitely thinks there's a issue here .For me I expect a massive reaction from team on Fridays games . Hell they are due us one.

[ancient hibee]

Celtic had a number of difficult league games including losing one until they walked all over us. We didn't even have a player booked(they had one!)in a 6-1 loss-total capitulation including the common occurrence of an ex OF player going back and in excellent form having a brainstorm-this time Marshall. However LJ should have seen against Dundee United that Cadden was all at sea against a running attacker and given a lot more thought to that.

[Donegal Hibby]

Celtic had a number of difficult league games including losing one until they walked all over us. We didn't even have a player booked(they had one!)in a 6-1 loss-total capitulation including the common occurrence of an ex OF player going back and in excellent form having a brainstorm-this time Marshall. However LJ should have seen against Dundee United that Cadden was all at sea against a running attacker and given a lot more thought to that.
Caddens very good going forward but weak when defending , remember thinking at the time if only we still had Paul Mcginn .Though would Mcginn have made a difference on our right side I think he might have imo.

[Hibs4185]

Believe and achieve.

It might not win us the league, but positivity and confidence can def improve performance levels.

[MWHIBBIES]

Pretty well known, that the game is won in the tunnel before the players even get to the pitch, another good reason to have a good strong captain standing next to them. Many players over the years at Hibs have said we knew we would win before we got onto the pitch.
:flag::flag::flag:
That's just not true. So every losing team ever has wanted it less? Nonsense.

[Donegal Hibby]

That's what made Sir Awex so different in Scotland. Didn't give a rats erse who Aberdeen were playing, he expected a win and any player not of that mindset got launched Pronto.
Did he not order his Aberdeen players to walk to through the city or somewhere after a poor game ? And I vaguely remember hearing a long time a go he once fined a player for overtaking him on a public road ? Maybe I'm wrong and my mind's playing tricks on me again :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

If Sir Alex was managing Aberdeen in his pomp now they'd get ragdolled by the old firm 9 times out of 10. The gap is way bigger than it was back in the 80's.

Absolutely true. Not only has champions league money widened the gap to a chasm, but back in Ferguson's time Celtic and Rangers probably averaged about 30,000 at home, now it's more like 50,000 and 45,000 possibly bigger, whereas Aberdeen's crowds probably haven't changed much. Not only that, but for some reason Aberdeen were able to hold onto Strachan for far longer than they would now and they kept arguably the best CH combination since the war together for years ... absolutely no chance that would happen these days.

I get LJ's beaten before we took the field rant as well. Back in the 80s I went to Anfield to watch Liverpool take on top of the league Crystal Palace and I'm not kidding, watching Palace run out of the tunnel you could feel the sense of inferiority coming off them in waves, even from 40 yards away you could see they looked like rabbits caught in the headlights .... they were duly pumped 3 - 1.

Having said that ... nothing excuses a 6 - 1 pumping, it simply cant be acceptable in this league, no matter who the opposition is and where the game is being played. I'm sure our players don't need that pointed out to them.

[Lago]

LJ has a point, I think it extends to supporters as well as players, how many times do you hear, read "we will do well to even get a draw", all too often.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Johnson not missed the players, publicly, when reacting to the Celtic game. Be interesting to see what reaction he gets. Does he have a group of players who will roll their sleeves up, look to improve, and prove him wrong. Or will they spit the dummy out and not react well to it. I think most of his comments since have been fair, although he made mistakes himself as well.
I expect a positive reaction. Under LJ, generally things are coming together most games we are having lots of possession and creating plenty chances. If the manager is creating a style that the players buy into and gets the best out of them there should be a respect there that they want to come out firing for him. (and this is all conveniently ignoring the 6-1 thumping that I did not attend).

[Donegal Hibby]

LJ has a point, I think it extends to supporters as well as players, how many times do you hear, read "we will do well to even get a draw", all too often.
I think you make a very good point there that it's not just the players but fans can also have a negative vibe or mindset as well and maybe the players pick up on this from the stands at times too .One thing I never quite got was booing the team even after a bad performance or result .I always preferred to just be quiet or leave the ground .Always felt the players and manager knew anyway it was poor or a bad result and there was always nothing to be gained by booing.

[Steven1985]

A positive mindset can only take you so far.

There are obvious benefits to positive visualisation, self belief, self trust etc etc. Ultimately though if you are up against a vastly superior opponent you will lose most of the time. Celtic can have as great a mindset as they like going to the Bernabeu, they will still get hammered. I can visualise myself beating Tyson Fury and holding the world championship aloft, I'd still lose.

I think Johnson does have a point in so far as there is a situation in Scotland where people hold the OF in a state of almost awe. It's not the reason they win he vast majority of trophies on offer though. It's because they have better players and better managers and that's because they have a lot more money.. Absolutely spot on. I'm not brown nosing because you're an Admin and I'm new here. I've been saying exactly what you just said for years. My user name is Steven1985 because other years were taken, I'm not 37, I'm 57. Celtic and Rangers have been bleeding Scottish football dry all of my life. On the plus side, no **** outside of Scotland, has ever heard of Hearts.

[RossScott1991]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/how-lee-johnson-and-hibs-dealt-with-celtic-rout-full-stop-meeting-psychological-evaluation-and-oscar-macintyre-3884935?amp

Link for those wanting to read the interview

[Steven1985]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/how-lee-johnson-and-hibs-dealt-with-celtic-rout-full-stop-meeting-psychological-evaluation-and-oscar-macintyre-3884935?amp

Link for those wanting to read the interview And if you're a bit too tired after work to read.....Take your pick https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=How+Lee+Johnson+and+Hibs+deal t+with+Celtic+rout

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I would hope the club has psychologists etc coaching the players. Imagine it would make a huge difference to professionals in any sport

when we visited HTC courtesy of Hibs.net funding and upgrade of the “sports bras” must have been one of Heckys las public engagements as such. I asked him about it being about more than the stats and he agreed - although first and foremost you need to be an althlete - esp if you wanted to play ( or sell on) Down South - and alluded to the psychology ring important and I think they were looking t if not already had a psychologist working with the team. Reading between the lines I think he was that a lot of performance was/is in the head.

[blackpoolhibs]

When we drew with the huns earlier in the season, he went on about belief and passion, now we are frightened?:confused:

Managers talk sheite, LJ is no different.

[MWHIBBIES]

When we drew with the huns earlier in the season, he went on about belief and passion, now we are frightened?:confused:

Managers talk sheite, LJ is no different.

Do you approach everything you do with exactly the same mindset?

Don't think he's talking *****. Things change. He can only talk about what he's seeing at the time.

[blackpoolhibs]

Do you approach everything you do with exactly the same mindset?

Don't think he's talking *****. Things change. He can only talk about what he's seeing at the time.

Yes i do, and he's a football manager, they all talk sheite.

[Steven1985]

When we drew with the huns earlier in the season, he went on about belief and passion, now we are frightened?:confused:

Managers talk sheite, LJ is no different. Those hun types were down to 9 men Mr Blackpool. We weren't frightened. We got dicked by much more money and much better players. Those twits had to prove a point in Scotland after proving they can't compete (within a million light years) with Europes finest. Or even with Europes' better than average.

I don't think LJ is talking *****e. I think he has a bit to learn. We're still 3rd BTW

[Tyler Durden]

I really like LJ and I’m happy with our progress under him but he’s made a few daft statements now IMO. I’m sure it is said with a purpose in mind but he’d be better moving on and focusing on Friday.

And also I’d blame him and his set up as much as any player for Saturday’s showing.

[1959 Hibby]

There’s one (and only one) manager in the last 20 years who changed our mindset against the old firm: Neil Lennon

[Donegal Hibby]

Yes i do, and he's a football manager, they all talk sheite.
Some more than others though , remember Cathro ? :greengrin

[Lago]

When we drew with the huns earlier in the season, he went on about belief and passion, now we are frightened?:confused:

Managers talk sheite, LJ is no different.
Much like you are

[blackpoolhibs]

Those hun types were down to 9 men Mr Blackpool. We weren't frightened. We got dicked by much more money and much better players. Those twits had to prove a point in Scotland after proving they can't compete (within a million light years) with Europes finest. Or even with Europes' better than average.

I don't think LJ is talking *****e. I think he has a bit to learn. We're still 3rd BTW

Of couse they have much more money than us, and that is the reason they normally win. I love seeing them getting dicked in Europe, but do you hear their managers moan about their players being frightened?

No they moan about them being outspent and how unfair it is, and when players say the games against the bigots are the games they look forward to, are they lying to hide their fear?

Ive just looked at Saturdays team, and i'm struggling to see who was frightened?

[Billy Whizz]

Of couse they have much more money than us, and that is the reason they normally win. I love seeing them getting dicked in Europe, but do you hear their managers moan about their players being frightened?

No they moan about them being outspent and how unfair it is, and when players say the games against the bigots are the games they look forward to, are they lying to hide their fear?

Ive just looked at Saturdays team, and i'm struggling to see who was frightened?

LJ talks so much rubbish at times, should be careful what he says
Watching some of the last 8 in the Premier League Cup tonight, we must have been frightened of Falkirk in the group stages

[KeithTheHibby]

There’s one (and only one) manager in the last 20 years who changed our mindset against the old firm: Neil Lennon

Correct. The majority of the players also bought into it.

[CJHibby]

The sooner we get a better 'mindset' or another term for it against Celtic the better. Lots of our fans over the years have almost had Stockholm Syndrome v Celtic and still come away with the nonsense about Celtic are this and that so let's just forget about it and move on. We compete well against the Rangers yet all too often sit off Celtic and get ran over..it's called an inferiority complex in plain English. The only way for us to beat Celtic is by physically matching up and not running away as so often happens. The performance at the weekend was disgraceful against a presently weakened Celtic team. We didn't even beat Celtic's second string team last year either with a timid performance I recall.

[MWHIBBIES]

There’s one (and only one) manager in the last 20 years who changed our mindset against the old firm: Neil Lennon

Yes, the one who told his assistant to sit down and stop celebrating against Celtic.

Stubbs changed Hibs mindset. Lennon carried on his good work.

[Since90+2]

The sooner we get a better 'mindset' or another term for it against Celtic the better. Lots of our fans over the years have almost had Stockholm Syndrome v Celtic and still come away with the nonsense about Celtic are this and that so let's just forget about it and move on. We compete well against the Rangers yet all too often sit off Celtic and get ran over..it's called an inferiority complex in plain English. The only way for us to beat Celtic is by physically matching up and not running away as so often happens. The performance at the weekend was disgraceful against a presently weakened Celtic team. We didn't even beat Celtic's second string team last year either with a timid performance I recall.

We've competed better against Rangers because for the majority of that time Celtic have been vastly superior to them. Winning 9 leagues out of 10 and 4 consecutive trebles makes that pretty much unarguable.

That's nothing to do with mindset.

Rangers when they were in the Championship, relative to the level they would normally be at, were pretty awful. That's why we were able to consistently give about as good as we got.

[DJ HIBBY]

There’s one (and only one) manager in the last 20 years who changed our mindset against the old firm: Neil Lennon

I’m pretty sure Mowbrays team would have something to say about that.

[Forza Fred]

Not long ago Ron Gordon alluded to a not so winning mentality he was hoping to change.

Even the motto..’persevere’ he said,suggested we were conditioned to defeat rather than victory.

[CJHibby]

90+2, I should have said Rangers for the past 40 odd years (in both guises), as I think it's been clear that we compete much better against them than Celtic regardless of which one was better at the time. I also believe we have a 'mental' problem with Hearts too. All too often over the past few years when we should've given them a serious thrashing we haven't and seemed to 'pull up early' in wins against them.

[Kato]

Not long ago Ron Gordon alluded to a not so winning mentality he was hoping to change.

Even the motto..’persevere’ he said,suggested we were conditioned to defeat rather than victory.It's never really been Hibs' motto until someone (Leanne?) tagged it on recently.

It's Leith's motto. Only the last few years has it been associated with the club.

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[patlowe]

I like LJ and don't actually think he's wrong that the old firm have often won the battle before it's begun. Having said that, I do find it a bit disingenuous to explain away the performance and tactics like that, and a bit patronising (and dare I say it Heckyesque) to act as if it takes an outsider to identify and rectify this - several members of his squad were part of a team under Lennon that took it to the old firm at every possible opportunity, and with no little success. In fact we probably should've beaten Celtic in a cup final when SDG was in charge and the club was in complete turmoil.

[loanheadhibby]

That's one of the reasons I was disappointed that it didn't work out for Jack Ross - I really thought he was trying to change things in this regard.

It makes me wonder (again) what goes on behind the scenes at Hibs - do Hibs employ sports phycologists to try and improve the mindset of the players? The players must have grown up with a must win attitude - I can't believe you get to be a professional footballer without having that inside you. And I can't believe that they lose it when they come to Hibs.

Maybe Hibs should get the Scotland cricket coaches on board - they beat the West Indies in the World Cup a few days ago - and they're a bigger name in sport than Celtic and Rangers.

West Indies trading on their past and no longer a big name in cricket.
That's why they were playing Scotland in the preliminary knock out stage.
It was a slight surprise that Scotland won but not a major shock.

[Forza Fred]

It's never really been Hibs' motto until someone (Leanne?) tagged it on recently.

It's Leith's motto. Only the last few years has it been associated with the club.

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Yep, and Ron Gordon has only been associated with the club for the last few years too.