VAR : Friend or Foe

[hibby6270]

Thread title - not my words - but the title of a programme on BBC iPlayer, on the lead up and training for officials ahead of VAR being introduced in Scotland.
Reading the VAR thread, it’s obvious the concept is very much “Marmite” - you’re for it OR against it. Love it or hate it.

Maybe watching this will convert some of the doubters! Who knows?
Whatever, it’s on its way. We better get used to it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001dm9v

[EskbankHibby]

VAR = objective technology illustrating events as they happened in real time.

Referees with OF bias = still decision makers.

[gbhibby]

VAR = objective technology illustrating events as they happened in real time.

Referees with OF bias = still decision makers.
We should have refs from outwith Scotland as the refs in the booth but they would never do that.

[McGruber]

Total game ruiner - hate it.

[Hibbyradge]

Total game ruiner - hate it.

Bad decisions ruin games, and results.

[greenlex]

Getting to celebrate goals twice. Celebrating opposition not getting goals. What’s not to like?:greengrin
I think getting more decisions correct however long it takes outweighs not having it.

[HoboHarry]

We should have refs from outwith Scotland as the refs in the booth but they would never do that.
The clubs don't even want the additional expenses of referees travelling from Aberdeen/Inverness etc etc to the central belt far less from abroad.

[Bob1875]

Goals are all about the moment. That moment you look at the linesman then celebrate. That’s now gone. Players and fans will now celebrate at 70% as every goal is checked. Total passion killer.

[Big_Franck]

Total game ruiner - hate it.

Agreed. I can't stand VAR. We'll never be able to celebrate a derby goal in the same way again.

I also don't trust the almost exclusively Glaswegian officials to use it fairly. It'll be used to give Rangers and Celtic more penalties, and when it could be used to help their opponents it'll be judged to not have been a clear and obvious error for VAR to have intervened. We all know how it'll pan out.

[Big_Franck]

Goals are all about the moment. That moment you look at the linesman then celebrate. That’s now gone. Players and fans will now celebrate at 70% as every goal is checked. Total passion killer.

This is the key for me. This is such a negative that it outweighs the positives of VAR for me.

[Jones28]

Bad decisions ruin games, and results.

Exactly this. I think it’s bizarre people would prefer the status quo where decisions have no scrutiny whatsoever.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Friend

fact



:)

[matty_f]

I’ll celebrate a goal as much as i do now. Folk cheer goals that are disallowed already (Dundee United on Tuesday, for example). It’s just something else thrown into the mix.

[Ronniekirk]

Willie Collum is overseeing VAR on Friday night as lead referee
I will decide after that game But been done really poor decisions down south when someone’s big toe or finger nail rules great goal offside

[Hibbyradge]

Willie Collum is overseeing VAR on Friday night as lead referee
I will decide after that game But been done really poor decisions down south when someone’s big toe or finger nail rules great goal offside

How offside should a player be before it's an offence? How far should a ball be over the line before it's out?

It doesn't matter what distance is decided, there will always be the need for a definite measurement.

[wookie70]

How offside should a player be before it's an offence? How far should a ball be over the line before it's out?

It doesn't matter what distance is decided, there will always be the need for a definite measurement.

every system will have a margin for error. As long as that is explained and the margin built in in favour of teh attacking team then I agree. I have only been at one game with VAR. Scotland v Israel where we got to celebrate Lyndon Dykes goal twice. That could have been high feet called and a very memorable night ruined. Less errors will be made and for me that makes it worthwhile. If bias is continued in favour of the Uglies at least they can't blame only seeing it once or being at the wrong angle.

[MWHIBBIES]

Agreed. I can't stand VAR. We'll never be able to celebrate a derby goal in the same way again.

I also don't trust the almost exclusively Glaswegian officials to use it fairly. It'll be used to give Rangers and Celtic more penalties, and when it could be used to help their opponents it'll be judged to not have been a clear and obvious error for VAR to have intervened. We all know how it'll pan out.

You can celebrate derby goals however you like, I'll still be going absolutely mental. VAR is terrific. You'd have been celebrating vs Dundee United had it been installed already.

[Jim44]

VAR is only as good as the idiots who make the final decision. I’m cynical enough to believe that the Ugly Sisters will thrive against all competition but will have to live with Old Firm derby match decisions. However, I’m sure that the authorities will work out a system which is fair to the only two teams who matter in Scottish football. I would rather stick with the bias and incompetence of the present system rather than go over to a ‘license to consolidate the Glasgow domination’. In matches between non old firm games, VAR is meaningless. I can hardly contain my indifference.

[MWHIBBIES]

VAR is only as good as the idiots who make the final decision. I’m cynical enough to believe that the Ugly Sisters will thrive against all competition but will have to live with Old Firm derby match decisions. However, I’m sure that the authorities will work out a system which is fair to the only two teams who matter in Scottish football. I would rather stick with the bias and incompetence of the present system rather than go over to a ‘license to consolidate the Glasgow domination’. In matches between non old firm games, VAR is meaningless. I can hardly contain my indifference.

You'd rather see them stick with the current bias and incompetence than introduce a system which literally cannot fail to make it better?

They cannot go and look at a video of a clear offside and then give the goal. That will not happen.

[Jim44]

You'd rather see them stick with the current bias and incompetence than introduce a system which literally cannot fail to make it better?

They cannot go and look at a video of a clear offside and then give the goal. That will not happen.

I agree, but when the decision is not clear cut, they will make the decision that favours their agenda…….. and don’t even begin to suggest they don’t have an agenda. I think your perception of the virtue of VAR is a bit naive.

Ps. It seems to me that VAR is the ultimate in terms of decisions. There will undoubtedly be occasions where the VAR humans wil get it wrong ……. will they be answerable to a higher judge. I don’t think so.

[Eyrie]

I agree, but when the decision is not clear cut, they will make the decision that favours their agenda…….. and don’t even begin to suggest they don’t have an agenda. I think your perception of the virtue of VAR is a bit naive.

Ps. It seems to me that VAR is the ultimate in terms of decisions. There will undoubtedly be occasions where the VAR humans wil get it wrong ……. will they be answerable to a higher judge. I don’t think so.

Sometimes that wrong decision will be to not review the incident.

And they will be answerable to the two lowest judges - the Ugly Sisters.

[Onion]

I thought initially it might be just another reason to get frustrated and annoyed with the game, but in Scotland where there is so much blatant bias (dressed up as incompetence), I feel that Hibs and the game generally can only benefit from VAR.

The only teams that will be net losers from VAR will be Celtic and Rangers - just as they would be if they brought in foreign referees.

[gbhibby]

I thought initially it might be just another reason to get frustrated and annoyed with the game, but in Scotland where there is so much blatant bias (dressed up as incompetence), I feel that Hibs and the game generally can only benefit from VAR.

The only teams that will be net losers from VAR will be Celtic and Rangers - just as they would be if they brought in foreign referees.
Agree, after watching the programme they seem to have got things in place and being later in introducing it will be a better system. Players will have to adapt. My wife asked me what time the game will finish on Friday, I said probably midnight😁.

[Forza Fred]

every system will have a margin for error. As long as that is explained and the margin built in in favour of teh attacking team then I agree. I have only been at one game with VAR. Scotland v Israel where we got to celebrate Lyndon Dykes goal twice. That could have been high feet called and a very memorable night ruined. Less errors will be made and for me that makes it worthwhile. If bias is continued in favour of the Uglies at least they can't blame only seeing it once or being at the wrong angle.

When a line is drawn along the pitch it’s either offside or onside, irrespective of margin.

No, ‘well it was JUST offside, but we’ll give the goal’

[erin go bragh]

Getting to celebrate goals twice. Celebrating opposition not getting goals. What’s not to like?:greengrin
I think getting more decisions correct however long it takes outweighs not having it.

Celebrating a goal only for it to get chalked off when your player is the proverbial baw hair offside.
But yes hopefully it stops all the stinking decisions the old firm and Hearts to a lesser extent.

[lyonhibs]

Will be an excellent idea in principle,executed dreadfully in reality.

[S4uzee]

Goals are all about the moment. That moment you look at the linesman then celebrate. That’s now gone. Players and fans will now celebrate at 70% as every goal is checked. Total passion killer.

Spot on

[OldEast]

For me a rule change is required. If ANY part of the attackers body is onside then your onside. This still protects the defending team from blatant poachers but helps the attacking team too.

[GreenGray]

Goals are all about the moment. That moment you look at the linesman then celebrate. That’s now gone. Players and fans will now celebrate at 70% as every goal is checked. Total passion killer.

Exactly, and quite frankly I can deal with the occasional wrong decision if it means the game isn’t ruined by this.

Wrong decisions never used to be as scrutinised as much as they have in recent years, now it’s the pundits favourite topic, and all they talk about most the time, it is exhausting.

All that scrutiny over decisions has lead to VAR which ironically will not stop the scrutiny as we have seen in England, whilst also ruining the experience of going to the game for the fans, bloody brilliant.


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[wookie70]

When a line is drawn along the pitch it’s either offside or onside, irrespective of margin.

No, ‘well it was JUST offside, but we’ll give the goal’

Has that line been drawn taking into account any margin for error or will the error be the same for each player so evened out. I have never heard a proper explanation of how it works and how accurate it is. Are there sensors or does it use maths to work out relative position based on known points. Are the lines we see illustrative and the actual numbers dictate offside. If it is accurate then a computer should make the decision assuming the computer is clever enough to identify what part of the body qualifies for offside

[HendoDelivered]

Goals are all about the moment. That moment you look at the linesman then celebrate. That’s now gone. Players and fans will now celebrate at 70% as every goal is checked. Total passion killer.

Yep

[CentreLine]

For me a rule change is required. If ANY part of the attackers body is onside then your onside. This still protects the defending team from blatant poachers but helps the attacking team too.

Oh I like that 👏

[neil7908]

I'm all for VAR. It changes the dynamic of the game a bit but overall its a huge positive and should stop some of the really poor decisions from referees.

Yes the Glasgow bias will still be there but its going to be much harder to justify.

It's also the only game in town I'm afraid. What other options are there? We have been complaining about refs for years and nothing has improved. If there was a way for refs to be magically better then it would have happened by now.

[green day]

I'm all for VAR. It changes the dynamic of the game a bit but overall its a huge positive and should stop some of the really poor decisions from referees.

Yes the Glasgow bias will still be there but its going to be much harder to justify.

It's also the only game in town I'm afraid. What other options are there? We have been complaining about refs for years and nothing has improved. If there was a way for refs to be magically better then it would have happened by now.

Its an interesting point, lots of people have suggested that VAR will help the glasgow clubs, but I think they have - for years - hidden behind the media rubbish that "refs need to make an on the spot decision" and "honest mistake".

The oversight from another set of eyes in the VAR office gives their implicit and explicit bias less cover.

I am not a fan of VAR, but decisions that go to review certainly have more chance of being correct than those arbitrarily allocated by some "neutral" referee from darkest Lanarkshire.

If the VAR oversight appears to be in any way biased, the SFA will be in bother.

[blackpoolhibs]

For me a rule change is required. If ANY part of the attackers body is onside then your onside. This still protects the defending team from blatant poachers but helps the attacking team too.


Oh I like that 👏

Me too.:agree: :top marks

[Hibernianinc]

Insane to say an open and scrutinised approach is worse than the current situation.

Whether a ’right’ call is made or not, it cannot be easier to ‘cheat’ in a post VAR environment.

[McGruber]

Insane to say an open and scrutinised approach is worse than the current situation.

Whether a ’right’ call is made or not, it cannot be easier to ‘cheat’ in a post VAR environment.

It's not just the amount of decisions being called correct though. It's the flow of the game, the atmosphere at the ground, the viewing spectacle. There's the times of being more enraged that VAR still calls it wrong even when they have watched the replays for 5 mins.
If it was so insane to be against VAR then how come there are countless surveys of English fans where VAR has been in place where the survey result is the majority would like to see it shoved back up the FA's rectum. All those fans insane?
I've watched EPL games for as long as I can remember - is it a better or worse watch with VAR? It's worse IMO, no question.
Not that it matters, it's here now and be here to stay - some people at least will end up keeping the knee in their jeans as the row infront tumble celebration is reduced to a glove clap a minute later

[GreenGray]

I'm all for VAR. It changes the dynamic of the game a bit but overall its a huge positive and should stop some of the really poor decisions from referees.

Yes the Glasgow bias will still be there but its going to be much harder to justify.

It's also the only game in town I'm afraid. What other options are there? We have been complaining about refs for years and nothing has improved. If there was a way for refs to be magically better then it would have happened by now.

I’d agree with this if we had evidence that it stopped poor decisions but we have seen that it doesn’t.


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[green day]

I’d agree with this if we had evidence that it stopped poor decisions but we have seen that it doesn’t.


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I would agree with you if we had evidence that it stopped correct decisions, but we havent seen that it does.

:wink:

[Paulie Walnuts]

For me a rule change is required. If ANY part of the attackers body is onside then your onside. This still protects the defending team from blatant poachers but helps the attacking team too.

Agree, I’ve said this for ages.

We want the game to be exciting. If you have a toenail onside, then you should be classed as onside imo.

[basehibby]

VAR = objective technology illustrating events as they happened in real time.

Referees with OF bias = still decision makers.

This is true and there will still be controversy as some incidents are not clear cut even with the benefit of replays. A good example of that is the penalty/sending off vs Aberdeen when even on hibs.net opinions were divided.

Where we/football stand to gain is with clear cut incidents that the ref somehow misses - such as the previous hand ball penalty not given in the same game - or numerous goals not given vs the Yams when the ball was a yard over the line.

[ClermistonGreen]

Foe !

fact !!

[Dashing Bob S]

Willie Collum is overseeing VAR on Friday night as lead referee
I will decide after that game But been done really poor decisions down south when someone’s big toe or finger nail rules great goal offside

Still has to be interpreted by bigots and idiots. I suppose the main benefit is it exposes them more.

[S4uzee]

Where will the monitor be located?

[Bobby's Cinema]

Hibs have made this useful guide
How VAR Will Be Used - Hibernian FC (https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/how-var-will-be-used#:~:text=to%20be%20stopped%3F-,Yes.,scored%20before%20initiating%20the%20review. )

Note that Goal-line technology is NOT being provided alongside VAR.
I'm still not clear on whether they've updated the rules to allow VAR to intervene on goal-line decisions?

You had a few outrageous decisions in early days of VAR where the referee's watch was broken, VAR showed the ball was over the line but was not allowed to make the call.

Also not clear what we'll see on screens in the stadium if we'll see images or not

[CropleyWasGod]

Where will the monitor be located?

Duhhh... the Louden Tavern, obvs. :rolleyes:

[McGruber]

Now we are seeing it in action.. any defectors from one camp to the other?

One thing standing out so far more so than the EPL is the lengthy time in decision making - not withstanding the merits of the verdicts

[Allant1981]

VAR is a good system, but the decision is just another person's opinion on an incident. Personally would keep it and see how it progresses

[Eyrie]

Now we are seeing it in action.. any defectors from one camp to the other?

One thing standing out so far more so than the EPL is the lengthy time in decision making - not withstanding the merits of the verdicts

Still where I was originally which is that VAR is fine if used correctly. That means only for clear and obvious errors which by definition would be immediately identifiable. I'd have a limit of 60 seconds, at which point the referee's decision is final. I doubt we'd even notice a delay at the game give how long players spend celebrating a goal.

But if what we've seen so far is indicative of how it will be used, it has to be scrapped.

The problem is that VAR is instead being used as a substitute for the on field officials who are comfortable choosing not to make a decision on the basis that VAR will sort it out, and VAR is so obsessed with "getting it right" that it will readily delay the game for several minutes before making a decision which, as Friday's penalty demonstrated, is still very subjective or even wrong.

Cricket has the correct approach. Decisions are made quickly and communicated to the crowd at the time. It also helps that the commentators simply observe when a decision is wrong and move on. However Soccerscene would delight in having its pundits criticise a wrong decision after being spoonfed selected angles following an hour's research, instead of explaining what happened.

[Onion]

IMO, VAR should be nowhere near Scottish football. It only works where there is the proper technology and COMPETENT officials overseeing it, and where big money / prestige is at stake.

In the hands of incompetents, it's just another way of them ****ing up the game here in Scotland, removing the spontaneity we value and brassing fans off.

"Better thought a fool/incompetent, than open your mouth and prove it." VAR is simply allowing fans to witness in greater detail how utterly incompetent, biased or useless or refs are. The only next step would be to allow refs to SPEAK during or after the game to explain their decisions. No good can come of that.

[Carheenlea]

Can remember discussions on here with what felt like a majority who advocated the introduction of VAR, how much better things would be and that our game was crying out for it.

I’m not seeing much of a defence now for it. If it was scrapped tomorrow I doubt there would any tears shed.

It was worth a go, but ultimately proven to be unworkable in Scotland.

[easty]

Can remember discussions on here with what felt like a majority who advocated the introduction of VAR, how much better things would be and that our game was crying out for it.

I’m not seeing much of a defence now for it. If it was scrapped tomorrow I doubt there would any tears shed.

It was worth a go, but ultimately proven to be unworkable in Scotland.

I remember it differently, I remember posting on here that we’ve got **** refs and it’d be those same refs in control of var. I thought the consensus agreed on here.

[Callum_62]

Var is a great system

It should (and has already) given goals that would have been incorrectly chopped off and disallowed goals that would have incorrectly stood

They made a mess of Fridays call and I hope they come out and say that and explain

They also apparently made a mess of Tony Watts red card

They need to find the balance between interference and influence on the game against the flow of the game itself

Hopefully they improve that and find the right level

England for the most part seem to get much more wrong than right now although back when it was first introduced they seemed to be weird calls every week




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[CockneyRebel]

Me too.:agree: :top marks



Ditto :aok:

[Just_Jimmy]

I remember it differently, I remember posting on here that we’ve got **** refs and it’d be those same refs in control of var. I thought the consensus agreed on here.Exactly. I've been at so many games down here in England and its an absolute shambles. It's only now marginally better, although the decision to give city a penalty yesterday was questionable. Its a **** show in Scotland and it'll never get any better because the game is set up with bent refs, incompetent refs and for the benefit of two clubs.



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[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly. I've been at so many games down here in England and its an absolute shambles. It's only now marginally better, although the decision to give city a penalty yesterday was questionable. Its a **** show in Scotland and it'll never get any better because the game is set up with bent refs, incompetent refs and for the benefit of two clubs.



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In a nutshell. :top marks

[lyonhibs]

Will be an excellent idea in principle,executed dreadfully in reality.

Not delighted to have been proven so spectacularly right on this one. But it's here to stay now

[Donegal Hibby]

Exactly. I've been at so many games down here in England and its an absolute shambles. It's only now marginally better, although the decision to give city a penalty yesterday was questionable. Its a **** show in Scotland and it'll never get any better because the game is set up with bent refs, incompetent refs and for the benefit of two clubs.



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Totally agree with this :aok:

[marinello59]

I wasn’t in favour of it before it was introduced and it’s certainly doing nothing to win me over now. It’s as much to do with the ruination of the live experience for me as it is with the competence or otherwise of those using it.

[greenlex]

Not against VAR but the decisions contentious or not need to be explained. There’s probably more of us that don’t know the laws of the game than do. Add in interpretation of said laws and it’s not doing the experience of the game any favours.

[WHAM]

I wasn’t in favour of it before it was introduced and it’s certainly doing nothing to win me over now. It’s as much to do with the ruination of the live experience for me as it is with the competence or otherwise of those using it.

100% where I am at with it.

Takes away the special moment when you score as you don’t know whether to celebrate or not.

Also, some of the offside decisions are too accurate IMO. I always thought the advantage was given to the attacker where there are mm’s in it.

Pulling stuff back for the most minor of infringements/contact is ruining the game IMO and taking the excitement away. .

[Wakeyhibee]

More decisions should be called correctly which can only be good. Problem is you can't celebrate a goal the same. It's not a great trade off for me. How it's implemented is crucial to its success.

[brog]

Exactly. I've been at so many games down here in England and its an absolute shambles. It's only now marginally better, although the decision to give city a penalty yesterday was questionable. Its a **** show in Scotland and it'll never get any better because the game is set up with bent refs, incompetent refs and for the benefit of two clubs.



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I agree entirely but that's the fault of our corrupt refereeing system allied to our completely incompetent referees. If you look at our last 2 games weve had the following examples.
1. An offside goal to us incorrectly awarded, corrected by VAR
2. A penalty to us not originally awarded, corrected by VAR.
3. An offside against an Aberdeen player correctly overturned, resulted in an incorrect penalty, IMO.
4. A goal for us correctly awarded after VAR.

I've not even gone into detail on the Aberdeen ludicrous penalty where originally the ref ironically got it right though possibly for the wrong reason.
To summarise in only 2 games our officials got 4 key decisions, which resulted in goals, wrong! That's a ridiculously high error ratio and I suspect that error count is consistent all over Scotland.
Did I mention, our refs are Sh*te!

[Forza Fred]

100% where I am at with it.

Takes away the special moment when you score as you don’t know whether to celebrate or not.

Also, some of the offside decisions are too accurate IMO. I always thought the advantage was given to the attacker where there are mm’s in it.

Pulling stuff back for the most minor of infringements/contact is ruining the game IMO and taking the excitement away. .

Not sure how a decision is “too accurate”.

You are either offside or you are not.

I think you mean that where there is uncertainty in the linesman’s mind he is more inclined to favour the attacker.

However, for all its faults offside is one area where VAR will get it right 99% of the time.

[HH81]

Not sure how a decision is “too accurate”.

You are either offside or you are not.

I think you mean that where there is uncertainty in the linesman’s mind he is more inclined to favour the attacker.

However, for all its faults offside is one area where VAR will get it right 99% of the time.

The problem is linesman get it right 95% of the time, is it worth 5 mins of zooming into shoulders, knees and noses to make a call?

[MWHIBBIES]

The problem is linesman get it right 95% of the time, is it worth 5 mins of zooming into shoulders, knees and noses to make a call?

So they get 5% wrong? could be a goal every 3 games from them missing offsides? Yes, thats worth it.

[Spike Mandela]

The problem is linesman get it right 95% of the time, is it worth 5 mins of zooming into shoulders, knees and noses to make a call?

I would go as far as to say that the technology
pretty much makes viewed offsides 100% correct. The linesma on good days could match that but on bad days could be a lot worse than your quoted 95%.

The whole offside rule is flawed by human capability anyway. Sometimes it is not humanly possible to be looking at one player exactly when he kicks it and where another player is exactly as it is released. Sometimes it's only best guess.

[ddoc]

So they get 5% wrong? could be a goal every 3 games from them missing offsides? Yes, thats worth it.

The problem with off-side calls is not VAR, it is the rule itself, as many others have said.
It would make for a lot more goals and get rid of so much controversy if the attacking player was on-side as long as any part of his body was in-line with the last defender.
Constantly seeing off-side called for being inches ahead of the defender is one of the things I absolutely hate.

[Jones28]

The delivery of the system is so poor. I was under the impression that in England fans were told what was being checked on the big screens, I wasn’t sure if the replays the referee was looking at were shown or not but now it’s clear they aren’t and they sure as **** aren’t showing the replays up here. But surely for VAR to work properly the fans at least have to be told things are being checked via big screens? So how can grounds without screens communicate that to supporters?

It will have teething problems and I’m prepared to give it the rest of the season to prove that we have officials capable of using the system and getting calls correct. Two shockers at the weekend though.

[matty_f]

So they get 5% wrong? could be a goal every 3 games from them missing offsides? Yes, thats worth it.

Even on Friday night, we'd have lost out on a legitimate goal without VAR and Aberdeen would have lost out on a goal as the linesman didn't see Marshall of his line somehow. Either of those could have been the difference between getting something from the game or not.

The issue, as flagged above, is the competency of those running it. VAR has three big decisions to make on Friday night and got one wrong. That's inexcusable, really. Above that the same linesman got two offside calls wrong that went to VAR and missed Marshall conning off his line to face the first penalty. One linesman with three mistakes that would have prevented goals.

VAR is a good idea, it needs to be run properly though otherwise it's going to dominate discussion every week.

[BoomtownHibees]

The problem with off-side calls is not VAR, it is the rule itself, as many others have said.
It would make for a lot more goals and get rid of so much controversy if the attacking player was on-side as long as any part of his body was in-line with the last defender.
Constantly seeing off-side called for being inches ahead of the defender is one of the things I absolutely hate.

Would we no still have the same issue of talking about being inches offside in that case? Just that it would be the back foot of the attacker rather than the front (or head/neck/armpit)

[ddoc]

Would we no still have the same issue of talking about being inches offside in that case? Just that it would be the back foot of the attacker rather than the front (or head/neck/armpit)

Sorry, you have confused me. In my scenario if any part of the attacking player was in line with the last defender he would be on-side.
An off-side call would require his whole body to be in front of any part of the last defender. It will never happen but it would make an off-side call cut and dry.

[BoomtownHibees]

Sorry, you have confused me. In my scenario if any part of the attacking player was in line with the last defender he would be on-side.
An off-side call would require his whole body to be in front of any part of the last defender. It will never happen but it would make an off-side call cut and dry.

Yeah but my point is that we would still be moaning about it if the offside was given for the attacker being an inch offside. This way would definitely give more of an advantage to the striker however I think it would still give us the same issue of talking about marginal decisions

[McGruber]

Even on Friday night, we'd have lost out on a legitimate goal without VAR and Aberdeen would have lost out on a goal as the linesman didn't see Marshall of his line somehow. Either of those could have been the difference between getting something from the game or not.

The issue, as flagged above, is the competency of those running it. VAR has three big decisions to make on Friday night and got one wrong. That's inexcusable, really. Above that the same linesman got two offside calls wrong that went to VAR and missed Marshall conning off his line to face the first penalty. One linesman with three mistakes that would have prevented goals.

VAR is a good idea, it needs to be run properly though otherwise it's going to dominate discussion every week.

To be a little pedantic, Aberdeen wouldn't have lost out on a goal, it's VAR error they got the penalty at all. Marshall was off his line though so they had no choice but to have it re-taken. Wonder how consistently that rule will be applied

Merits of decisions apart, the length of the VAR checks just angered the fans and killed the mood. These checks need to be done so much quicker. What's annoying about Friday was neither of the 3 calls were complicated. Clear dive you can see in 1st replay. Clear offside call you can check 1st viewing (might even have got a cheer) and the penalty retake... Hibs went up the other end and had time to score. Surely they are watching that and see it instantly

[Alfred E Newman]

I wouldn't be surprised if most people that are in favour of VAR are very rarely through a turnstile. It may make entertaining viewing for the armchair brigade but is does little to increase the spectacle for those that attend matches regularly.

[Forza Fred]

The problem is linesman get it right 95% of the time, is it worth 5 mins of zooming into shoulders, knees and noses to make a call?

I agree.

But that’s a different issue to what I was referring too.

[matty_f]

To be a little pedantic, Aberdeen wouldn't have lost out on a goal, it's VAR error they got the penalty at all. Marshall was off his line though so they had no choice but to have it re-taken. Wonder how consistently that rule will be applied

Merits of decisions apart, the length of the VAR checks just angered the fans and killed the mood. These checks need to be done so much quicker. What's annoying about Friday was neither of the 3 calls were complicated. Clear dive you can see in 1st replay. Clear offside call you can check 1st viewing (might even have got a cheer) and the penalty retake... Hibs went up the other end and had time to score. Surely they are watching that and see it instantly

Yeah I was taking it from the view point that once the penalty is awarded then what followed was legitimate.

With the penalty, there's is still an element of subjectivity though, the other two decisions are points of fact that VAR allowed the referee to (ultimately) get right. Significant decisions as well.

[matty_f]

I wouldn't be surprised if most people that are in favour of VAR are very rarely through a turnstile. It may make entertaining viewing for the armchair brigade but is does little to increase the spectacle for those that attend matches regularly.

I don't think anyone is in favour of it taking that long.

I'm in favour of it in principle, I'd rather take a few moments (not the time taken so far) to help get to the right decision.

Not at all in favour of taking an age to get the wrong one, right enough.