Is it time to introduce some kind of handicap in the Scottish Game

[A Hi-Bee]

Clubs outside of the two in Glasgow, can never compete the way football is set up in Scotland. Yes it has happened on occasion but I am speaking about the norm which is way unbalanced. So is it time we introduced some form of handicap system to spread the wealth and make for a more even playing field.
Or get the two erse cheeks out of Scotland. On the grounds of sporting equality something should happen.

[supershotmo]

It's not just our league now.

[Wilson]

No.

[tamig]

No chance. Makes it all the sweeter when we do get something off them.

[AL-Qaholik]

Playoffs or a wage cap - but neither will happen.
We have a completely broken league with people actively working to make sure it stays that way.

[Helensburghhibs]

Get this chat in the bin. A success for us in the league is 3rd. Theres nothing wrong with that. Every team plays the same opponents lets get on with it

[Steven1985]

I'm going for "get the two erse cheeks out of Scotland". Have been for years. People say Scottish football would die if that happened. I disagree. Attendances would go through the roof and the competition would be fantastic. The league for most of my life could easily be decided by Rangers/Celtic playing home and away. A decider at Hampden with extra time/pens if needed. Get rid

[Carheenlea]

“Spread the wealth” is an admiral mindset. Unfortunately Celtic, the kings of charity as they would have you believe, have no interest in sharing any wealth whatsoever other than with their friends in blue across the city.

Two utterly rancid football clubs.

[Pretty Boy]

12/13 - Celtic
13/14 - Celtic
14/15 - Celtic
15/16 - Celtic
16/17 - Celtic
17/18 - Celtic
18/19 - Celtic
19/20 - Celtic
20/21 - Rangers
21/22 - Celtic

12/13 - Juventus
13/14 - Juventus
14/15 - Juventus
15/16 - Juventus
16/17 - Juventus
17/18 - Juventus
18/19 - Juventus
19/20 - Juventus
20/21 - Inter
21/22 - AC Milan

12/13 - Bayern Munich
13/14 - Bayern Munich
14/15 - Bayern Munich
15/16 - Bayern Munich
16/17 - Bayern Munich
17/18 - Bayern Munich
18/19 - Bayern Munich
19/20 - Bayern Munich
20/21 - Bayern Munich
21/22 - Bayern Munich

12/13 - Barcelona
13/14 - Atletico Madrid
14/15 - Barcelona
15/16 - Barcelona
16/17 - Real Madrid
17/18 - Barcelona
18/19 - Barcelona
19/20 - Real Madrid
20/21 - Atletico Madrid
21/22 - Real Madrid

12/13 - PSG
13/14 - PSG
14/15 - PSG
15/16 - PSG
16/17 - Monaco
17/18 - PSG
18/19 - PSG
19/20 - PSG
20/21 - Lille
21/22 - PSG

12/13 - Porto
13/14 - Benfica
14/15 - Benfica
15/16 - Benfica
16/17 - Benfica
17/18 - Porto
18/19 - Benfica
19/20 - Porto
20/21 - Sporting
21/22 - Porto


12/13 - Elfsborg
13/14 - Malmo
14/15 - Malmo
15/16 - Norkopping
16/17 - Malmo
17/18 - Malmo
18/19 - AIK
19/20 - Djugardens
20/21 - Malmo
21/22 - Malmo

12/13 - Man Utd
13/14 - Man City
14/15 - Chelsea
15/16 - Leicester
16/17 - Chelsea
17/18 - Man City
18/19 - Man City
19/20 - Liverpool
20/21 - Man City
21/22 - Man City

This isn't an exclusively Scottish thing. A handful of teams dominate in some leagues, in others it's all but a monopoly. None of these teams are going to accept salary caps or handicapping in the name of competition. When you look at the attempts to make the Champions League more exclusive and more of a closed shop then most appear to want to do the exact opposite to protect their status.

Any change is going to come about with a series of continental leagues with the elite playing the elite and the fodder playing the fodder. I'm not sure there is apetite for that among fans regardless of where your team sits in the pecking order though so it's the status quo for the foreseeable.

[OsiersHibs]

Moving to a bigger league playing each other twice would reduce the gap straight away and make the league more competitive.

The current setup is a flawed model.

[Eyrie]

Moving to a bigger league playing each other twice would reduce the gap straight away and make the league more competitive.

The current setup is a flawed model.

The gap at the top will increase as the Ugly Sisters steamroller Partick, Inverness, Ayr and Dundee whilst Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen drop points against them.

I don't see that as being more competitive.

[JohnM1875]

12/13 - Celtic
13/14 - Celtic
14/15 - Celtic
15/16 - Celtic
16/17 - Celtic
17/18 - Celtic
18/19 - Celtic
19/20 - Celtic
20/21 - Rangers
21/22 - Celtic

12/13 - Juventus
13/14 - Juventus
14/15 - Juventus
15/16 - Juventus
16/17 - Juventus
17/18 - Juventus
18/19 - Juventus
19/20 - Juventus
20/21 - Inter
21/22 - AC Milan

12/13 - Bayern Munich
13/14 - Bayern Munich
14/15 - Bayern Munich
15/16 - Bayern Munich
16/17 - Bayern Munich
17/18 - Bayern Munich
18/19 - Bayern Munich
19/20 - Bayern Munich
20/21 - Bayern Munich
21/22 - Bayern Munich

12/13 - Barcelona
13/14 - Atletico Madrid
14/15 - Barcelona
15/16 - Barcelona
16/17 - Real Madrid
17/18 - Barcelona
18/19 - Barcelona
19/20 - Real Madrid
20/21 - Atletico Madrid
21/22 - Real Madrid

12/13 - PSG
13/14 - PSG
14/15 - PSG
15/16 - PSG
16/17 - Monaco
17/18 - PSG
18/19 - PSG
19/20 - PSG
20/21 - Lille
21/22 - PSG

12/13 - Porto
13/14 - Benfica
14/15 - Benfica
15/16 - Benfica
16/17 - Benfica
17/18 - Porto
18/19 - Benfica
19/20 - Porto
20/21 - Sporting
21/22 - Porto


12/13 - Elfsborg
13/14 - Malmo
14/15 - Malmo
15/16 - Norkopping
16/17 - Malmo
17/18 - Malmo
18/19 - AIK
19/20 - Djugardens
20/21 - Malmo
21/22 - Malmo

12/13 - Man Utd
13/14 - Man City
14/15 - Chelsea
15/16 - Leicester
16/17 - Chelsea
17/18 - Man City
18/19 - Man City
19/20 - Liverpool
20/21 - Man City
21/22 - Man City

This isn't an exclusively Scottish thing. A handful of teams dominate in some leagues, in others it's all but a monopoly. None of these teams are going to accept salary caps or handicapping in the name of competition. When you look at the attempts to make the Champions League more exclusive and more of a closed shop then most appear to want to do the exact opposite to protect their status.

Any change is going to come about with a series of continental leagues with the elite playing the elite and the fodder playing the fodder. I'm not sure there is apetite for that among fans regardless of where your team sits in the pecking order though so it's the status quo for the foreseeable.

That really is depressing stuff looking at the winners eh?

Have to admit I can't really remember a time before the Champions League
and Sky Sports etc. Think the first champions league was early 90's, so I was about five or six.

Were leagues more competitive before that?

[Sir David Gray]

That really is depressing stuff looking at the winners eh?

Have to admit I can't really remember a time before the Champions League
and Sky Sports etc. Think the first champions league was early 90's, so I was about five or six.

Were leagues more competitive before that?

The Champions League was started in 92/93 in the 10 years before that the winners of the leagues mentioned were;

Scotland

82-83 - Dundee Utd
83-84 - Aberdeen
84-85 - Aberdeen
85-86 - Celtic
86-87 - Rangers
87-88 - Celtic
88-89 - Rangers
89-90 - Rangers
90-91 - Rangers
91-92 - Rangers

Italy

82-83 - Roma
83-84 - Juventus
84-85 - Hellas Verona
85-86 - Juventus
86-87 - Napoli
87-88 - AC Milan
88-89 - Inter Milan
89-90 - Napoli
90-91 - Sampdoria
91-92 - AC Milan

Germany

82-83 - Hamburger SV
83-84 - VfB Stuttgart
84-85 - Bayern Munich
85-86 - Bayern Munich
86-87 - Bayern Munich
87-88 - Werder Bremen
88-89 - Bayern Munich
89-90 - Bayern Munich
90-91 - 1. FC Kaiserslautern
91-92 - VfB Stuttgart

Spain

82-83 - Athletic Bilbao
83-84 - Athletic Bilbao
84-85 - Barcelona
85-86 - Real Madrid
86-87 - Real Madrid
87-88 - Real Madrid
88-89 - Real Madrid
89-90 - Real Madrid
90-91 - Barcelona
91-92 - Barcelona

France

82-83 - Nantes
83-84 - Bordeaux
84-85 - Bordeaux
85-86 - Paris Saint-Germain
86-87 - Bordeaux
87-88 - Monaco
88-89 - Marseille
89-90 - Marseille
90-91 - Marseille
91-92 - Marseille

Portugal

82-83 - Benfica
83-84 - Benfica
84-85 - Porto
85-86 - Porto
86-87 - Benfica
87-88 - Porto
88-89 - Benfica
89-90 - Porto
90-91 - Benfica
91-92 - Porto

Sweden

82-83 - IFK Göteborg
83-84 - AIK
84-85 - IFK Göteborg
85-86 - Malmö FF
86-87 - Malmö FF
87-88 - Malmö FF
88-89 - Malmö FF
89-90 - Malmö FF
90-91 - IFK Göteburg
91-92 - IFK Göteborg

England

82-83 - Liverpool
83-84 - Liverpool
84-85 - Everton
85-86 - Liverpool
86-87 - Everton
87-88 - Liverpool
88-89 - Arsenal
89-90 - Liverpool
90-91 - Arsenal
91-92 - Leeds

[stoneyburn hibs]

No and never.
Hibs Will be Hibs whatever, giving those two anything gies me the boak.

[CmoantheHibs]

Nah just stupid. Could never work. Its hardly sporting integrity and how would it work for Europe etc

[beensaidbefore]

The gap at the top will increase as the Ugly Sisters steamroller Partick, Inverness, Ayr and Dundee whilst Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen drop points against them.

I don't see that as being more competitive.

Disagree. Us heart Aberdeen etc would likely pick up more points against other team than we lose each season to the OF. If a maximum of 12 points could be lost to old firm a season it would be a start. Potentially losing 24 a season makes it much tougher.

[donno]

Back to shared gate receipts? Would disadvantage Hibs, hearts and Aberdeen as well though!

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk

[Rumble de Thump]

We could stop pretending Rangers still exists. The football authorities and media won't allow it though. They must ensure Celtic and Rangers win everything, get every favour and get the bulk of the money.

[Alfiembra]

I think the only way you could slightly level the playing field is to re introduce the 3 foreigners rule. That way it would force all clubs to put a higher emphasis on home grown talent. It would dilute the OF but they would still dominate as they would continue to scoop up the best talent. It wouldn’t have as profound an effect on all the other clubs so would make at least splitting the OF a realistic opportunity.

[marinello59]

Clubs outside of the two in Glasgow, can never compete the way football is set up in Scotland. Yes it has happened on occasion but I am speaking about the norm which is way unbalanced. So is it time we introduced some form of handicap system to spread the wealth and make for a more even playing field.
Or get the two erse cheeks out of Scotland. On the grounds of sporting equality something should happen.

No.
Whilst winning at Parkhead is always a big ask yesterdays result was down to our own shortcomings.

[judas]

Playoffs or a wage cap - but neither will happen.
We have a completely broken league with people actively working to make sure it stays that way.

Agree with much of this.

I would like to see Scottish Clubs shun the current model and turn our league into a youth focused set up.

The Old Firm wouldn’t do it and they would look ridiculous fielding their expensive teams against boys.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is thick.

We have to ask ourselves - what are we trying to achieve and who - realistically - are we trying to compete against?

[Carheenlea]

Agree with much of this.

I would like to see Scottish Clubs shun the current model and turn our league into a youth focused set up.

The Old Firm wouldn’t do it and they would look ridiculous fielding their expensive teams against boys.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is thick.

We have to ask ourselves - what are we trying to achieve and who - realistically - are we trying to compete against?

Competing for league titles in top flight has long gone, and only a tiny minority of clubs across Europe enjoy that competition.

A larger minority compete for cups and European spots and that’s where we are. The majority of clubs have no chance of winning anything and survive mainly to make up the numbers.

I’m grateful that we fall into a category where we are realistically in with a shout of silverware and Europe, and we have all enjoyed those successes when they came and our club should continue to do so in the years to come. Most football supporters across the UK don’t enjoy that luxury.

We should always be of the mindset of giving the Old Firm a game and beat them on occasion, which we can do. Yesterday wasn’t one of those days but we’ll beat them again.

[Nicho87]

VAR will help the handicap but they are so far ahead of us (rest) it’s a free hit at both of them.

If anything the old argument of changing to a bigger league of 18 makes sense.

Playing the old firm 8 times a season is just mince.

Home and away.

Problem is greed by the mid to bottom clubs who won’t want to lose the bigot ultra away spenders

[Eyrie]

Disagree. Us heart Aberdeen etc would likely pick up more points against other team than we lose each season to the OF. If a maximum of 12 points could be lost to old firm a season it would be a start. Potentially losing 24 a season makes it much tougher.

If we (or Aberdeen or Hearts) are good enough to challenge for the title then we won't drop 24 points against the Ugly Sisters. We'd be looking to take 7-10 points from each of them which would leave them playing catch up.

[Keith_M]

Nah.

[wallpaperman]

I said this on a similar thread a few weeks back, there has to be some sort of wealth redistribution.

The old firm do not hold all the cards, the rest of Scottish football do. Nobody else wants them, the English league don’t want them.

Start playing hard ball with them, and if they don’t like it they can go and set their own 2 team league up.

Never happen though, the rest of Scottish football don’t have the balls.

[JohnM1875]

The Champions League was started in 92/93 in the 10 years before that the winners of the leagues mentioned were;

Scotland

82-83 - Dundee Utd
83-84 - Aberdeen
84-85 - Aberdeen
85-86 - Celtic
86-87 - Rangers
87-88 - Celtic
88-89 - Rangers
89-90 - Rangers
90-91 - Rangers
91-92 - Rangers

Italy

82-83 - Roma
83-84 - Juventus
84-85 - Hellas Verona
85-86 - Juventus
86-87 - Napoli
87-88 - AC Milan
88-89 - Inter Milan
89-90 - Napoli
90-91 - Sampdoria
91-92 - AC Milan

Germany

82-83 - Hamburger SV
83-84 - VfB Stuttgart
84-85 - Bayern Munich
85-86 - Bayern Munich
86-87 - Bayern Munich
87-88 - Werder Bremen
88-89 - Bayern Munich
89-90 - Bayern Munich
90-91 - 1. FC Kaiserslautern
91-92 - VfB Stuttgart

Spain

82-83 - Athletic Bilbao
83-84 - Athletic Bilbao
84-85 - Barcelona
85-86 - Real Madrid
86-87 - Real Madrid
87-88 - Real Madrid
88-89 - Real Madrid
89-90 - Real Madrid
90-91 - Barcelona
91-92 - Barcelona

France

82-83 - Nantes
83-84 - Bordeaux
84-85 - Bordeaux
85-86 - Paris Saint-Germain
86-87 - Bordeaux
87-88 - Monaco
88-89 - Marseille
89-90 - Marseille
90-91 - Marseille
91-92 - Marseille

Portugal

82-83 - Benfica
83-84 - Benfica
84-85 - Porto
85-86 - Porto
86-87 - Benfica
87-88 - Porto
88-89 - Benfica
89-90 - Porto
90-91 - Benfica
91-92 - Porto

Sweden

82-83 - IFK Göteborg
83-84 - AIK
84-85 - IFK Göteborg
85-86 - Malmö FF
86-87 - Malmö FF
87-88 - Malmö FF
88-89 - Malmö FF
89-90 - Malmö FF
90-91 - IFK Göteburg
91-92 - IFK Göteborg

England

82-83 - Liverpool
83-84 - Liverpool
84-85 - Everton
85-86 - Liverpool
86-87 - Everton
87-88 - Liverpool
88-89 - Arsenal
89-90 - Liverpool
90-91 - Arsenal
91-92 - Leeds

Thanks for doing that. I was close, was four when the champions league started.

Definitely more of a spread in some leagues. Nearly 40 years since someone else has won our league. Depressing. Isn't going to change any time soon either.

[beensaidbefore]

If we (or Aberdeen or Hearts) are good enough to challenge for the title then we won't drop 24 points against the Ugly Sisters. We'd be looking to take 7-10 points from each of them which would leave them playing catch up.

I agree with the sentiment, but can't see it as being realistic. Apart from when us and the huns were down, we havent taken that may points off each if them consistently since God knows when.

As other posters have said, there is a constant fear of being dragged into relegation so rather than looking up, we look down to see who will possibly catch us.

If we play the same teams 4x a season they begin to know and understand our players and tactics much easier than if we had one home and one away.

Let's say we get 1 draw and 1 loss against each. They would only have advantage of 3 points each. We could then realistically expext to pick up the same level of points against the so called 'diddy' clubs, maybe even 6 points, same as the OF would. OK it would still add up, but it could help to close the gap. I'm not suggesting that would be that, plenty other things would need to fall into place before anyone else regularly challenges, but I think it would be a positve start to see us not losing 18-24 points a season the them. Hearts and Aberdeen are equally disadvantaged and we would cancel eachother out to an extent with draws etc, but you could also hope they get some points against the OF too to stop it becoming the procession it has in recent years.

In my humble opinion if course. :aok:

[JammyDoidger]

Start the season hoping for third, best case scenario you get what Hearts got that's probably the ceiling and that's a pumping from teams in the group stage of a European competiton, sometimes you wonder what the point is, you really do.

[beensaidbefore]

I said this on a similar thread a few weeks back, there has to be some sort of wealth redistribution.

The old firm do not hold all the cards, the rest of Scottish football do. Nobody else wants them, the English league don’t want them.

Start playing hard ball with them, and if they don’t like it they can go and set their own 2 team league up.

Never happen though, the rest of Scottish football don’t have the balls.

Yes, they are always going ti join forces to keep the rest of is down. That's why the 11-1 voting was the stupidest thing, possibly ever, in Scottish football.

[judas]

12/13 - Celtic
13/14 - Celtic
14/15 - Celtic
15/16 - Celtic
16/17 - Celtic
17/18 - Celtic
18/19 - Celtic
19/20 - Celtic
20/21 - Rangers
21/22 - Celtic

12/13 - Juventus
13/14 - Juventus
14/15 - Juventus
15/16 - Juventus
16/17 - Juventus
17/18 - Juventus
18/19 - Juventus
19/20 - Juventus
20/21 - Inter
21/22 - AC Milan

12/13 - Bayern Munich
13/14 - Bayern Munich
14/15 - Bayern Munich
15/16 - Bayern Munich
16/17 - Bayern Munich
17/18 - Bayern Munich
18/19 - Bayern Munich
19/20 - Bayern Munich
20/21 - Bayern Munich
21/22 - Bayern Munich

12/13 - Barcelona
13/14 - Atletico Madrid
14/15 - Barcelona
15/16 - Barcelona
16/17 - Real Madrid
17/18 - Barcelona
18/19 - Barcelona
19/20 - Real Madrid
20/21 - Atletico Madrid
21/22 - Real Madrid

12/13 - PSG
13/14 - PSG
14/15 - PSG
15/16 - PSG
16/17 - Monaco
17/18 - PSG
18/19 - PSG
19/20 - PSG
20/21 - Lille
21/22 - PSG

12/13 - Porto
13/14 - Benfica
14/15 - Benfica
15/16 - Benfica
16/17 - Benfica
17/18 - Porto
18/19 - Benfica
19/20 - Porto
20/21 - Sporting
21/22 - Porto


12/13 - Elfsborg
13/14 - Malmo
14/15 - Malmo
15/16 - Norkopping
16/17 - Malmo
17/18 - Malmo
18/19 - AIK
19/20 - Djugardens
20/21 - Malmo
21/22 - Malmo

12/13 - Man Utd
13/14 - Man City
14/15 - Chelsea
15/16 - Leicester
16/17 - Chelsea
17/18 - Man City
18/19 - Man City
19/20 - Liverpool
20/21 - Man City
21/22 - Man City

This isn't an exclusively Scottish thing. A handful of teams dominate in some leagues, in others it's all but a monopoly. None of these teams are going to accept salary caps or handicapping in the name of competition. When you look at the attempts to make the Champions League more exclusive and more of a closed shop then most appear to want to do the exact opposite to protect their status.

Any change is going to come about with a series of continental leagues with the elite playing the elite and the fodder playing the fodder. I'm not sure there is apetite for that among fans regardless of where your team sits in the pecking order though so it's the status quo for the foreseeable.

Your post is interesting and I thank you for it. But are you saying that it’s OK because it happens elsewhere?!

For the first time in a long time, why cant we be innovators in Scotland and rework failed conventions?

[seanshow]

It's interesting because if you look at some of the older league tables, it show tv and its income has definitely killed football as an open competition across Europe.

Where as ours has been a dead 2 or (1) team league for 35+ years regardless.

Even in England which has become a cartel at the top. at least 8 teams have won or came very close to winning the league (Newcastle for example).
some sort of rotation and excitement.

.....I can only think of one other team in Scotland who has came very close to winning the league and blowing it at the end. :na na:

[j'adorehibs]

12/13 - Celtic
13/14 - Celtic
14/15 - Celtic
15/16 - Celtic
16/17 - Celtic
17/18 - Celtic
18/19 - Celtic
19/20 - Celtic
20/21 - Rangers
21/22 - Celtic

12/13 - Juventus
13/14 - Juventus
14/15 - Juventus
15/16 - Juventus
16/17 - Juventus
17/18 - Juventus
18/19 - Juventus
19/20 - Juventus
20/21 - Inter
21/22 - AC Milan

12/13 - Bayern Munich
13/14 - Bayern Munich
14/15 - Bayern Munich
15/16 - Bayern Munich
16/17 - Bayern Munich
17/18 - Bayern Munich
18/19 - Bayern Munich
19/20 - Bayern Munich
20/21 - Bayern Munich
21/22 - Bayern Munich

12/13 - Barcelona
13/14 - Atletico Madrid
14/15 - Barcelona
15/16 - Barcelona
16/17 - Real Madrid
17/18 - Barcelona
18/19 - Barcelona
19/20 - Real Madrid
20/21 - Atletico Madrid
21/22 - Real Madrid

12/13 - PSG
13/14 - PSG
14/15 - PSG
15/16 - PSG
16/17 - Monaco
17/18 - PSG
18/19 - PSG
19/20 - PSG
20/21 - Lille
21/22 - PSG

12/13 - Porto
13/14 - Benfica
14/15 - Benfica
15/16 - Benfica
16/17 - Benfica
17/18 - Porto
18/19 - Benfica
19/20 - Porto
20/21 - Sporting
21/22 - Porto


12/13 - Elfsborg
13/14 - Malmo
14/15 - Malmo
15/16 - Norkopping
16/17 - Malmo
17/18 - Malmo
18/19 - AIK
19/20 - Djugardens
20/21 - Malmo
21/22 - Malmo

12/13 - Man Utd
13/14 - Man City
14/15 - Chelsea
15/16 - Leicester
16/17 - Chelsea
17/18 - Man City
18/19 - Man City
19/20 - Liverpool
20/21 - Man City
21/22 - Man City

This isn't an exclusively Scottish thing. A handful of teams dominate in some leagues, in others it's all but a monopoly. None of these teams are going to accept salary caps or handicapping in the name of competition. When you look at the attempts to make the Champions League more exclusive and more of a closed shop then most appear to want to do the exact opposite to protect their status.

Any change is going to come about with a series of continental leagues with the elite playing the elite and the fodder playing the fodder. I'm not sure there is apetite for that among fans regardless of where your team sits in the pecking order though so it's the status quo for the foreseeable.

spot on...people need to wake up....third is what we aim for ( and good cup runs) , that to me would be winning the league.....no matter what income the ownership can muster we will never challenge the old firm until we had 50k fans every other week......

[MWHIBBIES]

Yes, they are always going ti join forces to keep the rest of is down. That's why the 11-1 voting was the stupidest thing, possibly ever, in Scottish football.

Didn't Aberdeen **** up the chance to change it to 10-2?

[hibby rae]

Didn't Aberdeen **** up the chance to change it to 10-2?

Yep

[scoopyboy]

Start the season hoping for third, best case scenario you get what Hearts got that's probably the ceiling and that's a pumping from teams in the group stage of a European competiton, sometimes you wonder what the point is, you really do.

You could argue that about most teams in any top league.

Brentford and Brighton are having relatively good seasons, how high are they going to finish? They would be over the moon to finish third but their fans know there is no chance.

In Scotland if Arbroath had got promoted how high would their fans have viewed a top three finish.

As has been pointed out in other posts there are teams dominating other countries leagues and we are no different no matter how frustrating it can be.

[Hibees1973]

Most ridiculous thread I've seen in a while.

[Eyrie]

I agree with the sentiment, but can't see it as being realistic. Apart from when us and the huns were down, we havent taken that may points off each if them consistently since God knows when.

As other posters have said, there is a constant fear of being dragged into relegation so rather than looking up, we look down to see who will possibly catch us.

If we play the same teams 4x a season they begin to know and understand our players and tactics much easier than if we had one home and one away.

Let's say we get 1 draw and 1 loss against each. They would only have advantage of 3 points each. We could then realistically expext to pick up the same level of points against the so called 'diddy' clubs, maybe even 6 points, same as the OF would. OK it would still add up, but it could help to close the gap. I'm not suggesting that would be that, plenty other things would need to fall into place before anyone else regularly challenges, but I think it would be a positve start to see us not losing 18-24 points a season the them. Hearts and Aberdeen are equally disadvantaged and we would cancel each other out to an extent with draws etc, but you could also hope they get some points against the OF too to stop it becoming the procession it has in recent years.

If we're good enough to match the Ugly Sister results against the rest of the league then we're good enough to match them when we play them, whether that is twice or four times. Some seasons they'll take more points and some seasons we will and that will determine the title.

If we're not, then we will drop points against the other teams that the Ugly Sisters don't and we won't be challenging them regardless of whether we play them twice or four times.

Fair point about teams getting a tactical insight when meeting four times, but that would still happen with two meetings due to the scouting that goes on now and the flip side is that it makes it harder to adjust if we lose the first meeting.


In my humble opinion if course. :aok:
And it's respected, although I think our amicable disagreement means we've broken .net rules :na na:

[beensaidbefore]

If we're good enough to match the Ugly Sister results against the rest of the league then we're good enough to match them when we play them, whether that is twice or four times. Some seasons they'll take more points and some seasons we will and that will determine the title.

If we're not, then we will drop points against the other teams that the Ugly Sisters don't and we won't be challenging them regardless of whether we play them twice or four times.

Fair point about teams getting a tactical insight when meeting four times, but that would still happen with two meetings due to the scouting that goes on now and the flip side is that it makes it harder to adjust if we lose the first meeting.


And it's respected, although I think our amicable disagreement means we've broken .net rules :na na:

:greengrin aye, we're defo not doing this right. I'll try think of something more insulting for next time!:wink:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

12/13 - Celtic
13/14 - Celtic
14/15 - Celtic
15/16 - Celtic
16/17 - Celtic
17/18 - Celtic
18/19 - Celtic
19/20 - Celtic
20/21 - Rangers
21/22 - Celtic

12/13 - Juventus
13/14 - Juventus
14/15 - Juventus
15/16 - Juventus
16/17 - Juventus
17/18 - Juventus
18/19 - Juventus
19/20 - Juventus
20/21 - Inter
21/22 - AC Milan

12/13 - Bayern Munich
13/14 - Bayern Munich
14/15 - Bayern Munich
15/16 - Bayern Munich
16/17 - Bayern Munich
17/18 - Bayern Munich
18/19 - Bayern Munich
19/20 - Bayern Munich
20/21 - Bayern Munich
21/22 - Bayern Munich

12/13 - Barcelona
13/14 - Atletico Madrid
14/15 - Barcelona
15/16 - Barcelona
16/17 - Real Madrid
17/18 - Barcelona
18/19 - Barcelona
19/20 - Real Madrid
20/21 - Atletico Madrid
21/22 - Real Madrid

12/13 - PSG
13/14 - PSG
14/15 - PSG
15/16 - PSG
16/17 - Monaco
17/18 - PSG
18/19 - PSG
19/20 - PSG
20/21 - Lille
21/22 - PSG

12/13 - Porto
13/14 - Benfica
14/15 - Benfica
15/16 - Benfica
16/17 - Benfica
17/18 - Porto
18/19 - Benfica
19/20 - Porto
20/21 - Sporting
21/22 - Porto


12/13 - Elfsborg
13/14 - Malmo
14/15 - Malmo
15/16 - Norkopping
16/17 - Malmo
17/18 - Malmo
18/19 - AIK
19/20 - Djugardens
20/21 - Malmo
21/22 - Malmo

12/13 - Man Utd
13/14 - Man City
14/15 - Chelsea
15/16 - Leicester
16/17 - Chelsea
17/18 - Man City
18/19 - Man City
19/20 - Liverpool
20/21 - Man City
21/22 - Man City

This isn't an exclusively Scottish thing. A handful of teams dominate in some leagues, in others it's all but a monopoly. None of these teams are going to accept salary caps or handicapping in the name of competition. When you look at the attempts to make the Champions League more exclusive and more of a closed shop then most appear to want to do the exact opposite to protect their status.

Any change is going to come about with a series of continental leagues with the elite playing the elite and the fodder playing the fodder. I'm not sure there is apetite for that among fans regardless of where your team sits in the pecking order though so it's the status quo for the foreseeable.

If you could choose only one what should be the main objective of an association / football authority:

A) Sustainability
B) Competitiveness within and across leagues
C) Development of the game (is that the same as d)?)
D) Commercial success



and if you think prioritising one “skews” things what other priority would counter-balance that?

[greenlex]

I agree with the sentiment, but can't see it as being realistic. Apart from when us and the huns were down, we havent taken that may points off each if them consistently since God knows when.

As other posters have said, there is a constant fear of being dragged into relegation so rather than looking up, we look down to see who will possibly catch us.

If we play the same teams 4x a season they begin to know and understand our players and tactics much easier than if we had one home and one away.

Let's say we get 1 draw and 1 loss against each. They would only have advantage of 3 points each. We could then realistically expext to pick up the same level of points against the so called 'diddy' clubs, maybe even 6 points, same as the OF would. OK it would still add up, but it could help to close the gap. I'm not suggesting that would be that, plenty other things would need to fall into place before anyone else regularly challenges, but I think it would be a positve start to see us not losing 18-24 points a season the them. Hearts and Aberdeen are equally disadvantaged and we would cancel eachother out to an extent with draws etc, but you could also hope they get some points against the OF too to stop it becoming the procession it has in recent years.

In my humble opinion if course. :aok: agreed. I’d also advocate going to two points for a win and one for a draw. Chuck in zero points for a goalless draw. Maybe an extra point for 6 goals or more. (Maybe too far) Could get interesting.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

How does the NFL work?

- all revenues are shared equally amongst the franchises Im told
- wages / spending caps
- draft system with the worst team getting first pick of the top college players

I can’t really see that working here but a handicap system - I get the idea but can’t ever see how that could be addressed and it would be a funny notion in terms of sporting integrity but you could argue that’s out the window anyway with FFP being flagrantly disregarded when it suits.

[matty_f]

We sort of piggy-backed this topic for the podcast this week, one consideration we made was that the teams in position 1 and 2 on a matchday get two points for a win rather than three (would need to adjust for things like having a game in hand etc, and would maybe need to come in once the first round of fixtures is complete) but that would stop it being a specific handicap on Celtic and Rangers and would support closing the gap and increasing competition.

That was just one of a few suggestions we came up with but ultimately none of them are practical because there’s no way Rangers and Celtic would agree to anything that would put their duopoly at risk.

[Steven1985]

No.
Whilst winning at Parkhead is always a big ask yesterdays result was down to our own shortcomings. Ban me if you like but just NO!. Those twits have it in them to do it when needed. They needed a big result at home after their woeful / embarrassing CL showing so they got one.

[matty_f]

Ban me if you like but just NO!. Those twits have it in them to do it when needed. They needed a big result at home after their woeful / embarrassing CL showing so they got one.

What is in your post that you thought you might get banned for?

[Steven1985]

What is in your post that you thought you might get banned for? For saying that I thought an admin was talking bollocks. I didn't like that he said the heavy defeat was down to our shortcomings. We're doing ok and moving in the right direction. Celtic really, really needed that result and we were just unlucky to have to play them after they got their ***** handed to them yet again in Europe. They needed to prove a point.

That was purely out of courtesy because I'm new here. It's the first and last time I shall be answering to you :-)

[evy]

Love how the OP starts an absolute nonsense of a thread then just vanishes :dunno:

[shetlandhibee]

NO imagine playing there 2 string in a cup final>? or beating them in the league that wouldnt give you half the satisfaction beating they cheeks as they are now,,,however rare it may be lately :agree: like as have been posted same more or less for every league .

[Steven1985]

Love how the OP starts an absolute nonsense of a thread then just vanishes :dunno: Hmmmm!. I'm new here. I may have fallen for that

[matty_f]

For saying that I thought an admin was talking bollocks. I didn't like that he said the heavy defeat was down to our shortcomings. We're doing ok and moving in the right direction. Celtic really, really needed that result and we were just unlucky to have to play them after they got their ***** handed to them yet again in Europe. They needed to prove a point.

That was purely out of courtesy because I'm new here. It's the first and last time I shall be answering to you :-)
:greengrin

[A Hi-Bee]

Love how the OP starts an absolute nonsense of a thread then just vanishes :dunno:

Thanks for thinking of me, :greengrin no gone anywhere pal, just no able to spend awe day on forums. your input is appreciated if somewhat unspectacular.
Some interesting answers, for the ones who think about the game, it would also appear that a fair few think the status quo is fine, just keep bending over for the uglies, as long as we do that, nothing will change. I happen to think in my humble opinion that we need some vision in the game along with a fairer way of distributing the cash, just to help some teams along like. Someone else also mentioned something that Pat Nevin spoke about some years ago, that if someone was to think about a team getting into Europe (Champions Cup) every year they would only need to spend at the time around 50mill to make this happen. So until Hibs manage to get some wealthy Arab or such we will just plod along with a few scraps from the table now and then. Although I do think Ron is doing a pretty good job on the cash front we cannot ever get anywhere close to the uglies. The hun and the smellies have run the course and time to get rid.
:thumbsup: Almost forgot to say that just because most other leagues have a couple of heavy hitters win most of the time, dont mean to say that its right or that we could not do something different.

[Sioux]

We sort of piggy-backed this topic for the podcast this week, one consideration we made was that the teams in position 1 and 2 on a matchday get two points for a win rather than three (would need to adjust for things like having a game in hand etc, and would maybe need to come in once the first round of fixtures is complete) but that would stop it being a specific handicap on Celtic and Rangers and would support closing the gap and increasing competition.

That was just one of a few suggestions we came up with but ultimately none of them are practical because there’s no way Rangers and Celtic would agree to anything that would put their duopoly at risk.

This is why podcasts run by amateurs should be banned!! :taxi

[A Hi-Bee]

This is why podcasts run by amateurs should be banned!! :taxi

Everyone has to start somewhere.
:greengrin

[ClermistonGreen]

In answer to the original question :

No !

[matty_f]

This is why podcasts run by amateurs should be banned!! :taxi

:faf: it wasn’t even the worst idea we had.