What would your preferred future be for the Scottish top flight?

[He's here!]

Thoughts?

[Jones28]

I’d like the ugly sisters to **** off and never return. I’d rather we were a league that had 10 potential champions and no old firm than 2 definite champions and everyone else a hanger on.

[Glory Lurker]

Can't vote on the phone but the wegies in the sea please.

If the story is that Scottish fitba only functions because of the money that pair bring in then everyone else is a bigger zombie than Sevco. It's not sport. Aye, them going would bring some horrible pain but there would still be a league and there would at least be competition.

Not that it's going to happen though because nobody will have them. Can only hope that the frustration continuous failures in Europe that they wouldn't suffer if they had EPL cash causes them ultimately drives them both insane and they chuck fitba for selling painted sticks on etsy

[NAE NOOKIE]

The OF pissing off elsewhere would make no difference, within 20 years practically every kid in the country will be supporting one or the other as they take on Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etc, and with the finance to enable them to do it. EPL stadiums are full every week with fans whose clubs have absolutely no hope of winning their league, but it's a league full of the best players in the world and a glamorous image we can only dream about and that in itself is a massive part of the attraction.

As for handicapping ..... I'm sure Spanish fans who don't support their version of the uglies would love that as well, as would fans in Germany, Portugal, Holland and anywhere else where a handful of teams have dominated for decades ... Bayern Munich have won the Bundesliga in every one of the last 10 seasons FFS and that's a country full of huge clubs with massive fan bases. Handicapping will simply never happen.

The only hope is that some middle east or far east individual or even country with bottomless pockets realises just how many headlines it would make in the sporting world if they were to take over a Scottish club and break a near 40 year long duopoly by putting in the required finances. Compared to buying a Spanish or EPL club the money required would be peanuts, but the kudos would be massive ..... Hibs winning the Scottish cup was noticed far beyond these shores, imagine the worldwide publicity to be gained by a club who could stop the uglies for one or more seasons.

[Wilson]

Status quo please.

This league is nothing without the Old Firm. They bring in the money. They are the draw.

I don't care to see Livi or St Johnstone as champions of a no money league. Who would?

We just have to focus on winning our league within the league. Get third. Get Europe. Grow our own brand with our own level of success.

A lack of building for the future or being able to sustain any success has been our downfall. Crying because there are bigger fish in the pond won't help.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I despise the old firm with every fibre of my being but a Scottish ‘top flight’ without them would be utterly meaningless.

you couldn’t seriously call yourselves champions of Scotland when the biggest clubs in Scotland aren’t in it. And yes, I’m fully aware we will never call ourselves champions of Scotland while they’re in it either.

[where'stheslope]

Back to playing each other twice, we all know that the Uglies will never be allowed to leave Scotland!
Its only them that want to get out, but no other league wants them!!
So, a league of 18 teams playing each other twice.
That way international games don't mean crammed in fixtures, and the same for call offs due to weather.
May not help other teams to win the league, but at least we may get closer to them!!!!

[DIXIHIBS]

The problem we have is that our big 2 are huge in comparison to the size of Scotland. Spain Germany Italy etc all have problems with the same teams winning the trophies but they are big countries and there are other clubs that are well supported and could do well. Old firm must have 75% of all fans in scotland while rest of us stuggle to fill our grounds. I would love to see them go and give other clubs a chance but our league would lose the majority of sponsorship/tv coverage etc. Lets be honest, who do we most want to see hibs play.... old firm or livi/county. I think we all know the answer.

[Sir David Gray]

I'd gladly see the back of the pair of them.

We managed just fine when Rangers were out of the league for 4 years despite the predictions of armageddon and we would manage just fine if the pair of them buggered off for good.

[A Hi-Bee]

Going back to 18 or 22 teams would only dilute the cash available, I still remember many, many meaningless games with around 5,000 of a crowd at E.R. In my humble we need to look at some type of handicapping system to raise the level of the clubs outside of the 2 weedgie clubs.

[Pretty Boy]

Whenever ourselves, Hearts or Aberdeen qualify for European competition we are also rans. Rangers and Celtic pissing off would probably make that more acute as a lot of money would go with them.

What's the point in carrying on like this though? We all know that no one else is ever winning the league again without seriously dodgy money being ploughed in. The gap is growing at such a rate that cups even look like they will be harder to come by as well soon enough.

I genuinely didn't care about that game tody. I'd wager almost no one truly believed we were going to take anything from it and watching such a lopsided contest can't be much fun for the home fans either.

[ScottB]

Ultimately, whatever setup that has them in it, will have them winning it, unless there’s some sort of budget cap / income split that levels the playing field, which just isn’t going to happen, as that ultimately means them handing over heaps of their income to everyone else.

In the current setup, Scottish football will probably go through cycles where the Old Firm do well enough in qualifying / EC / EL games to raise the coefficient high enough for Champions League games, where they likely get hosed till the coefficient returns them to the games they can win. For the rest of us it will shift between entering in the god knows what qualifying round to getting battered in a random group stage.

The only big change ever likely to come would be some form of tiered European league. Until then we’ll be stuck with the Old Firm because the English will never, ever take them.

[Ozyhibby]

Atlantic league for me but I know the status quo is what people want.


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[A Hi-Bee]

Whenever ourselves, Hearts or Aberdeen qualify for European competition we are also rans. Rangers and Celtic pissing off would probably make that more acute as a lot of money would go with them.

What's the point in carrying on like this though? We all know that no one else is ever winning the league again without seriously dodgy money being ploughed in. The gap is growing at such a rate that cups even look like they will be harder to come by as well soon enough.

I genuinely didn't care about that game today. I'd wager almost no one truly believed we were going to take anything from it and watching such a lopsided contest can't be much fun for the home fans either.

Pretty sure they love it, feeds into the need they have, believing that they are among the real big boys, even Rod the mod was at the game creaming his pants, remember him pissing his pants running down St Clair street after a game at E.R. :faf: the glory hunters will always be there and will always lap up being at the top o the tree at any given time. Perhaps time to cut the tree down so to speak, introduce a handicapping system that would allow the rest of the clubs to rise up and get closer to them and then make it a fairer and more challenging competition for them. That would also improve them as they go for the big money prizes in Europe, so win win in my humble opinion.

[AL-Qaholik]

Playoffs.
Or a wage cap.
Or both.

[weecounty hibby]

18 teams home and away. Some kind of salary cap. No idea how that would or could happen but our game is dying on its arse. If/when any club outside the bigots win any competition it is a major shock. The financial difference between us and the bigots and them and the teams they are playing at the moment is probably more. And they have a cheek to moan when pumped in Europe. Welcome to our world. They can't see that it is them making our league uncompetitive that actually makes it more difficult for them to get better in Eurooe

[GreenCastle]

Get rid of the bigots or since that will never happen as no one wants them or more importantly needs them..and they are stuck in Scotland winning the league but getting pumped in any meaningful euro competition.

Play each other x2 season - would increase crowds and make it more special rather than the potential x6 a season now - (league and both cups).

Would expand the league - Dundee Derbies etc ideally makes it more interesting.

[Pretty Boy]

A wage cap is a no go.

It works in US sports because they are so insular. With continental competition in Europe why would anyone agree to a salary cap in their domestic league? Rangers, Celtic and Hearts are already being humiliated in Europe this season, no one is going to agree to go into those games even further behind the opposition.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Atlantic league for me but I know the status quo is what people want.


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the results so far don’t suggest that

[I_Love_Latapy]

I used to worry that if the OF left then they would just hoover up all Scottish talent and take it with them... However looking at the teams they are putting out just now there's not much Scottish talent in them so let them go ... I know it will take away TV ££ but .... Ideally they could still be in the Scottish Cup?

[Donegal Hibby]

Voted for expand the league ,playing twice . Think playing four or up to six times is choking the life out of the league and becoming boring for fans .Been on about this before ,wont happen with sky owning the league though.

[bigwheel]

Voted for expand the league ,playing twice . Think playing four or up to six times is choking the life out of the league and becoming boring for fans .Been on about this before ,wont happen with sky owning the league though.

And I’m really glad it won’t. I’m old enough to remember it last time ..so many meaningless games - was horrible ..what we’ve got is much much better . Most games are meaningful ..

[He's here!]

Atlantic league for me but I know the status quo is what people want.


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How would that work? I know it was mooted years ago but I can't remember what the proposals were.

I'd certainly be interested in something that widened the scope of our opponents.

[Mcbizz1998]

Wouldn’t mind a play off type system.

Top 4 in league have a play off for the championship every year, old firm would still dominate but at least we would occasionally see another team winning it.

[Eyrie]

Get rid of both Ugly Sisters. Where isn't relevant, although I'd be delighted if it was 500 miles west of Rockall wearing concrete boots.

But since that won't happen, league restructuring is the solution.

However the idea of replacing eight games against Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtc and Sevco with eight games against Morton, Queens Park, Raith and Cove is ridiculous. The gap at the top will increase as the Ugly Sisters steamroller Partick, Inverness, Ayr and Dundee whilst Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen drop points against them, there will be plenty of meaningless games from Christmas onwards as it becomes clear who is safe from relegation but too far behind for Europe, the reduction in TV money and sponsorship will lead to a lower standard of player and the level of interest will drop (see the old 70s First Division) resulting in lower attendances.

Instead I'd go for two leagues of twelve for 22 games, then splitting at the winter break into three leagues of eight for a further 14 and a total of 36 matches. The games would have more meaning, promotion/relegation will be more fluid leading to playing different teams each year and the teams you do face four times will be on a similar level. And if we're good enough to win the league (or Aberdeen, or Hearts etc), then we're good enough to beat the Ugly Sisters regardless of how often we play them.

[Zambernardi1875]

A minimum of 6 or 7 Scottish players per match day squad.

[Donegal Hibby]

And I’m really glad it won’t. I’m old enough to remember it last time ..so many meaningless games - was horrible ..what we’ve got is much much better . Most games are meaningful ..
I also remember the year we played Motherwell 6 times and was bored to death with it too! Still think with proper planning a bigger league could be good . You can have up to 5th in this league worried about getting sucked into relegation trouble too and would be great to get back to a simple fixture schedule off , you play one week at home and the following week away and it keeps going that way .This patter of two weeks home and maybe three away and changes like the weather all year is like a bad joke someone's playing on the league every year imo

[OsiersHibs]

Let's be honest, the current setup is a joke of a setup.

[bigwheel]

I also remember the year we played Motherwell 6 times and was bored to death with it too! Still think with proper planning a bigger league could be good . You can have up to 5th in this league worried about getting sucked into relegation trouble too and would be great to get back to a simple fixture schedule off , you play one week at home and the following week away and it keeps going that way .This patter of two weeks home and maybe three away and changes like the weather all year is like a bad joke someone's playing on the league every year imo

Our set up isn’t perfect for sure , but Having up to 5th worrying about relegation whilst also being able to get into Europe is fantastic in my view.

Almost every game means something. People who want to go to an 18 plus league mustn’t know or recall the depressing nature of 30 percent of the games being absolutely meaningless …such a turn off ..

[Donegal Hibby]

Our set up isn’t perfect for sure , but Having up to 5th worrying about relegation whilst also being able to get into Europe is fantastic in my view.

Almost every game means something. People who want to go to an 18 plus league mustn’t know or recall the depressing nature of 30 percent of the games being absolutely meaningless …such a turn off ..
There's pros and cons with both our views on this I feel .like how you say you find it fantastic a team up to 5th in the league going for a European place could possibly after a bad run get into relegation trouble I sometimes think this makes teams more wary and defensive in there way of playing in our league while a bigger league might just make teams play a more attack minded game . I wouldn't want a 18 plus league btw ,would much prefer 14 or 16 if it could be done .Home and away of course .

[Scotty Leither]

A lot of defeatist talk on here.

We’re one of the few clubs that with a few judicious signings and the building of a team that wins 80% of their home matches would see us mount a challenge to the OF once in a while IMO, coupled with an owner and a manager like Ferguson who wants to ram it up them every time we play them, unlike that meek submission we saw today.

[LancashireHibby]

I despise the old firm with every fibre of my being but a Scottish ‘top flight’ without them would be utterly meaningless.

you couldn’t seriously call yourselves champions of Scotland when the biggest clubs in Scotland aren’t in it. And yes, I’m fully aware we will never call ourselves champions of Scotland while they’re in it either.
That’s where I’m at. My heart wants us to be rid of the gruesome twosome once and for all, but in reality it would leave us little better than the Welsh Premier.

What we need is some way of closing the gap between the two and the rest. Long term that would be hugely beneficial for the two, with increased competition domestically surely leading to better performances in Europe, but sadly there’s more chance of the two of them shedding the sectarian baggage than there is seeing the long term benefits of a closer league.

[lucky]

Why would anyone want the two biggest clubs in our country to leave our league? They generate money for the league. The fault for how uncompetitive our league is lies at the door of those who have run Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen over the years. Each of these clubs should be able to compete if not challenge the OF at least once every 5 years. The money in Scottish football is mostly generated by gate money. Yet the gap between the OF and us is massive compared to the gap between us and Ross County or the likes.

So my vote is the status quo

[Nicho87]

18 team league
Will never happen

Greedy chairmen continue to ruin Scottish football

[Just_Jimmy]

Why would anyone want the two biggest clubs in our country to leave our league? They generate money for the league. The fault for how uncompetitive our league is lies at the door of those who have run Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen over the years. Each of these clubs should be able to compete if not challenge the OF at least once every 5 years. The money in Scottish football is mostly generated by gate money. Yet the gap between the OF and us is massive compared to the gap between us and Ross County or the likes.

So my vote is the status quoThat's a very valid point. Everyone highlights the gap between us and celtic and rangers (myself included) when discussing competition - yet we often fail to highlight we under perform considering how much we dwarf other clubs in our league.

How we turn that into competitive advantage is what RG has tried to do since he started. It's harder than it seems.

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[Eyrie]

18 team league
Will never happen

Greedy chairmen continue to ruin Scottish football

Who are the chairmen getting rich out of Scottish football with big salaries and bigger dividends?

I can't share your enthusiasm for a cold dreich February match against Ayr or Ross County when neither team has anything to play for.

[Sioux]

That's a very valid point. Everyone highlights the gap between us and celtic and rangers (myself included) when discussing competition - yet we often fail to highlight we under perform considering how much we dwarf other clubs in our league.

How we turn that into competitive advantage is what RG has tried to do since he started. It's harder than it seems.

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That's not true though is it?

Hibs paid £2.9m in wages prior to March 2022. If that's covers say 30 players, the average wage is £1,800 per week. Ross County (1.9m) paid around £1,200 on average per week. There's not much difference between players on those wages. Hibs paying an extra £600 per week doesn't dwarf what Ross County pay.

On the other hand Rangers and Celtic coughed up very close to £40m, meaning an average wage of £13,000. That's a hell of a difference between them and the rest. Obviously the top earners at Rangers and Celtic do in fact dwarf the top earners in the rest of the league, much more so that the gap between the other so called 'big clubs' and those in the bottom six.

We keep hearing that Hibs should always beat these diddy teams, but in reality the wages we pay don't get you a far better player than the likes of Ross County.

The Scotsman in January 2020 reported that the average wage at Easter Road was £2,300 per week, whilst Ross County paid £1,100 per week. Celtic paid £17,000!

Celtic certainly dwarf Hibs, but Hibs, by the same margin, do not dwarf Ross County, or anyone else.

I think these figures make it clear that the premier league clubs, other than Rangers and Celtic, are not that far apart in the calibre of player they can employ, but Rangers and Celtic players are in fact miles ahead.

[Ozyhibby]

the results so far don’t suggest that

Apologies, I mean that there is more people interested in adding Falkirk, Dunfermline or Morton to the league than there is in adding Molde, Rosenberg or Brondby.
Most fans don’t actually want to improve, they just want to play easier teams.

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[H18S NX]

I'd gladly see the back of the pair of them.

We managed just fine when Rangers were out of the league for 4 years despite the predictions of armageddon and we would manage just fine if the pair of them buggered off for good..............Totally agree.:aok:

[stuart-farquhar]

A simple tax of 10% on turnover. Collected by the league and redistributed evenly would help. However guess who would object.

[chippy]

Atlantic league for me but I know the status quo is what people want.


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Same for me Oz. Folks are dreaming of they think they’ll get an 16/18/20 team league with only 2 old firm games. A compromise would be a Belgian style 16/18 team league with additional matches after 30/34 games to determine winners, Euro places and relegation/ promotion.
I’d much prefer an Atlantic league though. It would be the only way the old firm could get near biggish money and the only way we , Hearts and Aberdeen would too. I agree it would probably only include the biggest 5 or 6 clubs in Scotland, maybe 7/8 if 2 divisions. I can hear the complaints already but I would rather that than Scottish football never to able to compete. It would give us the basis for an even better national side. Of course it would mean that the remaining Scottish league would be downgraded somewhat - but it could include the bigger clubs B teams. All eyes would be on the Atlantic League but the Huns and Celtic would have to swallow not winning the league by rotation, whilst we might be a yo-yo club if there were 2 divisions whilst now and again seriously competing

[MWHIBBIES]

Apologies, I mean that there is more people interested in adding Falkirk, Dunfermline or Morton to the league than there is in adding Molde, Rosenberg or Brondby.
Most fans don’t actually want to improve, they just want to play easier teams.

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Or they'd like to actually be able to attend away matches?

[ekhibee]

I don't like the OF and never have, but like it or not they have much bigger supports than anybody else, and I can't see how it makes financial sense to let them bugger off elsewhere. Lots of clubs, while not totally reliant on it, would be taking a big hit without the income from their away support.

[Billy McKirdy]

Voted to expand the league but feel that we have to grow our club to become as big as the old firm otherwise what’s the point?

The success of Rangers and Celtic demonstrates there is a blueprint for success, setting third as our target year after year is embarrassing.

[shetlandhibee]

The OF pissing off elsewhere would make no difference, within 20 years practically every kid in the country will be supporting one or the other as they take on Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etc, and with the finance to enable them to do it. EPL stadiums are full every week with fans whose clubs have absolutely no hope of winning their league, but it's a league full of the best players in the world and a glamorous image we can only dream about and that in itself is a massive part of the attraction.

As for handicapping ..... I'm sure Spanish fans who don't support their version of the uglies would love that as well, as would fans in Germany, Portugal, Holland and anywhere else where a handful of teams have dominated for decades ... Bayern Munich have won the Bundesliga in every one of the last 10 seasons FFS and that's a country full of huge clubs with massive fan bases. Handicapping will simply never happen.

The only hope is that some middle east or far east individual or even country with bottomless pockets realises just how many headlines it would make in the sporting world if they were to take over a Scottish club and break a near 40 year long duopoly by putting in the required finances. Compared to buying a Spanish or EPL club the money required would be peanuts, but the kudos would be massive ..... Hibs winning the Scottish cup was noticed far beyond these shores, imagine the worldwide publicity to be gained by a club who could stop the uglies for one or more seasons.
this ,,:top marks:agree:

[Hibby70]

2 leagues of 8 split East and West. Each team plays all other 15 teams twice. Then the top 4 from each league go into a quarters, semi and final. (Top 2 get home advantage and play 3rd/4th from the other league)

Old firm would never go for it mind you.

[Key West]

2 leagues of 8 split East and West. Each team plays all other 15 teams twice. Then the top 4 from each league go into a quarters, semi and final. (Top 2 get home advantage and play 3rd/4th from the other league)

Old firm would never go for it mind you.

That sounds good to me.

[Ozyhibby]

2 leagues of 8 split East and West. Each team plays all other 15 teams twice. Then the top 4 from each league go into a quarters, semi and final. (Top 2 get home advantage and play 3rd/4th from the other league)

Old firm would never go for it mind you.

Scotland is tiny. We surely don’t need geographic splits?


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Let's be honest, the current setup is a joke of a setup.

The concept is fine in a country that only has 20 full time professional clubs mate. What screws it is the imbalance of fixtures before the split.

14 clubs playing home and away before the split would give 26 fixtures ... split the league into 6 and 8 after the split also playing home and away, giving a total of 36 fixtures for the top 6 and 40 for the bottom 8 ...... that's a problem season ticket wise with 2 extra home games for teams in the bottom 8 ... but we're grown ups FFS surely there would be a way past that ... EG £20 maximum charge for the two extra games.

18 teams playing home and away will never be revisited by the SPFL for absolutely obvious reasons, but at least my way the fixtures are properly balanced.

[chippy]

The concept is fine in a country that only has 20 full time professional clubs mate. What screws it is the imbalance of fixtures before the split.

14 clubs playing home and away before the split would give 26 fixtures ... split the league into 6 and 8 after the split also playing home and away, giving a total of 36 fixtures for the top 6 and 40 for the bottom 8 ...... that's a problem season ticket wise with 2 extra home games for teams in the bottom 8 ... but we're grown ups FFS surely there would be a way past that ... EG £20 maximum charge for the two extra games.

18 teams playing home and away will never be revisited by the SPFL for absolutely obvious reasons, but at least my way the fixtures are properly balanced.

I prefer the 16 team Belgian system but as an alternative it’s better than what we have for sure. Mind you almost everybody here were was well against that just 2 years ago. Wonder why?

[chippy]

Apologies, I mean that there is more people interested in adding Falkirk, Dunfermline or Morton to the league than there is in adding Molde, Rosenberg or Brondby.
Most fans don’t actually want to improve, they just want to play easier teams.

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Great point. being in the mix with Bodo Glimt, Malmo, Copenhagen, Rosenborg, Brondby would improve us massively if the funding was right

[B.H.F.C]

Great point. being in the mix with Bodo Glimt, Malmo, Copenhagen, Rosenborg, Brondby would improve us massively if the funding was right

Crap for those of us that actually enjoy going to games week in, week out though.

[chippy]

Crap for those of us that actually enjoy going to games week in, week out though.

Not a problem. Rosyth-Zebrugge ferry starts next year. Can take your new Tesla and drive to Scandinavia

[The Modfather]

A lot of defeatist talk on here.

We’re one of the few clubs that with a few judicious signings and the building of a team that wins 80% of their home matches would see us mount a challenge to the OF once in a while IMO, coupled with an owner and a manager like Ferguson who wants to ram it up them every time we play them, unlike that meek submission we saw today.

The issue is your talking about maybe once a decade of stars aligning like that. Where we, or someone, gets recruitment right and are able to punch well
above our weight over a season. While at the same time both the Old Firm have a big drop off. Even if that did happen it’s a one off event, not something that can be sustained or replicated. If it did happen it wouldn’t change anything in the mid or long term other than a blip in the records, like Leicester.

[Steven1985]

Status quo please.

This league is nothing without the Old Firm. They bring in the money. They are the draw.

I don't care to see Livi or St Johnstone as champions of a no money league. Who would?

We just have to focus on winning our league within the league. Get third. Get Europe. Grow our own brand with our own level of success.

A lack of building for the future or being able to sustain any success has been our downfall. Crying because there are bigger fish in the pond won't help.

And here's me thinking football was about competition and sport. I'm such a fool sometimes.

[Pretty Boy]

The issue is your talking about maybe once a decade of stars aligning like that. Where we, or someone, gets recruitment right and are able to punch well
above our weight over a season. While at the same time both the Old Firm have a big drop off. Even if that did happen it’s a one off event, not something that can be sustained or replicated. If it did happen it wouldn’t change anything in the mid or long term other than a blip in the records, like Leicester.

I always think people underestimate just how much it would cost to close the gap on Celtic and Rangers for a sustained period. Everything Hibs are doing now is to enable us just to consistently finish 3rd or 4th, we haven't even been very good at that in my lifetime. There's no real belief within the club that we can win the league and why would there be?

In the simplest possible terms Celtic paid us in the region of £4.5M for Scott Brown and then paid him £20K a week. So if someone invested north of £5M in Hibs we could get Scott Brown for a season at 2007 prices. Look at the money Hearts ploughed through under Romanov (and for some time before that) and they had a solitary 2nd place and 2 cups to show for it followed by administration and 2 relegations. You are talking tens of millions just to compete with them and you are already starting with a handicap because no one has even a fraction of the fanbase they have so there is an obvious risk of unsustainability.

Defeatists are usually far closer to being realists than the optimist is when it comes to Scottish football.

[Steven1985]

Whenever ourselves, Hearts or Aberdeen qualify for European competition we are also rans. Rangers and Celtic pissing off would probably make that more acute as a lot of money would go with them.

What's the point in carrying on like this though? We all know that no one else is ever winning the league again without seriously dodgy money being ploughed in. The gap is growing at such a rate that cups even look like they will be harder to come by as well soon enough.

I genuinely didn't care about that game tody. I'd wager almost no one truly believed we were going to take anything from it and watching such a lopsided contest can't be much fun for the home fans either. I live in England, I have for most of my life. I used to get beat up as a kid for supporting Hibs and Scotland. I dished out a few beatings myself as I got older. Scottish football isn't even on the radar now. No one I know can even be bothered to take the piss. Sad but true.

[Sir David Gray]

I always think people underestimate just how much it would cost to close the gap on Celtic and Rangers for a sustained period. Everything Hibs are doing now is to enable us just to consistently finish 3rd or 4th, we haven't even been very good at that in my lifetime. There's no real belief within the club that we can win the league and why would there be?

In the simplest possible terms Celtic paid us in the region of £4.5M for Scott Brown and then paid him £20K a week. So if someone invested north of £5M in Hibs we could get Scott Brown for a season at 2007 prices. Look at the money Hearts ploughed through under Romanov (and for some time before that) and they had a solitary 2nd place and 2 cups to show for it followed by administration and 2 relegations. You are talking tens of millions just to compete with them and you are already starting with a handicap because no one has even a fraction of the fanbase they have so there is an obvious risk of unsustainability.

Defeatists are usually far closer to being realists than the optimist is when it comes to Scottish football.

We would need tens of millions of pounds to be ploughed into the club year after year to have any chance of competing with them on a regular basis.

We have no chance of any team other than Celtic or Rangers winning the league in my lifetime as far as I'm concerned.

[Steven1985]

We would need tens of millions of pounds to be ploughed into the club year after year to have any chance of competing with them on a regular basis.

We have no chance of any team other than Celtic or Rangers winning the league in my lifetime as far as I'm concerned. Nail on the head. Just be content to be a Hibee and accept it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Ask the question after we’ve beaten one of the Old Firm and see how different the results would be.

Asking it so close to a 6-1 thumping kinda skews things a tad.

[basehibby]

The OF pissing off elsewhere would make no difference, within 20 years practically every kid in the country will be supporting one or the other as they take on Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etc, and with the finance to enable them to do it. EPL stadiums are full every week with fans whose clubs have absolutely no hope of winning their league, but it's a league full of the best players in the world and a glamorous image we can only dream about and that in itself is a massive part of the attraction.

As for handicapping ..... I'm sure Spanish fans who don't support their version of the uglies would love that as well, as would fans in Germany, Portugal, Holland and anywhere else where a handful of teams have dominated for decades ... Bayern Munich have won the Bundesliga in every one of the last 10 seasons FFS and that's a country full of huge clubs with massive fan bases. Handicapping will simply never happen.

The only hope is that some middle east or far east individual or even country with bottomless pockets realises just how many headlines it would make in the sporting world if they were to take over a Scottish club and break a near 40 year long duopoly by putting in the required finances. Compared to buying a Spanish or EPL club the money required would be peanuts, but the kudos would be massive ..... Hibs winning the Scottish cup was noticed far beyond these shores, imagine the worldwide publicity to be gained by a club who could stop the uglies for one or more seasons.

Having ripped into you somewhat for your bizarre statement on another thread that Hibs remaining 3rd today would take an "absolute miracle", I want to take my hat off to you for the above assessment. I don't think that ditching the OF or introducing any form of handicapping would be helpful - or realistic. What is an under acknowledged fact is that the SPL for all it's faults is well supported and rarely short on drama and talking points and could be a great avenue to kudos for various attention seeking billionaires - more than that though it is clearly undersold in terms of media deals - something that I'm happy to note is curently under review with Oor Ron taking a central role in proceedings.

[Steven1985]

Ask the question after we’ve beaten one of the Old Firm and see how different the results would be.

Asking it so close to a 6-1 thumping kinda skews things a tad. This is also a very valid and fair point. Was there anything sweeter than 21st May 2016. For me in football terms.... NO!. I'd still like to see the pair of them gone though.

[Just_Jimmy]

That's not true though is it?

Hibs paid £2.9m in wages prior to March 2022. If that's covers say 30 players, the average wage is £1,800 per week. Ross County (1.9m) paid around £1,200 on average per week. There's not much difference between players on those wages. Hibs paying an extra £600 per week doesn't dwarf what Ross County pay.

On the other hand Rangers and Celtic coughed up very close to £40m, meaning an average wage of £13,000. That's a hell of a difference between them and the rest. Obviously the top earners at Rangers and Celtic do in fact dwarf the top earners in the rest of the league, much more so that the gap between the other so called 'big clubs' and those in the bottom six.

We keep hearing that Hibs should always beat these diddy teams, but in reality the wages we pay don't get you a far better player than the likes of Ross County.

The Scotsman in January 2020 reported that the average wage at Easter Road was £2,300 per week, whilst Ross County paid £1,100 per week. Celtic paid £17,000!

Celtic certainly dwarf Hibs, but Hibs, by the same margin, do not dwarf Ross County, or anyone else.

I think these figures make it clear that the premier league clubs, other than Rangers and Celtic, are not that far apart in the calibre of player they can employ, but Rangers and Celtic players are in fact miles ahead.That's all true and it's a good post.

However, we play to crowds 3 or 4 times the size of RC so what RG is trying to do is turn that much bigger fan base, and the commercial potential of Hibs and Edinburgh to our advantage.

You won't get an argument about celtics size compared to us from me.

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[Steven1985]

Why would anyone want the two biggest clubs in our country to leave our league? They generate money for the league. The fault for how uncompetitive our league is lies at the door of those who have run Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen over the years. Each of these clubs should be able to compete if not challenge the OF at least once every 5 years. The money in Scottish football is mostly generated by gate money. Yet the gap between the OF and us is massive compared to the gap between us and Ross County or the likes.

So my vote is the status quo Utter nonsense. They're a cancer. It's like being married to an abusive / narcissistic partner. You're useless, you're nothing. If it wasn't for me you'd be less than dog ****. If you're happy with that, then good for you. I say **** off to the pair of them. We'll manage.

[1875Sean]

Utter nonsense. They're a cancer. It's like being married to an abusive / narcissistic partner. You're useless, you're nothing. If it wasn't for me you'd be less than dog ****. If you're happy with that, then good for you. I say **** off to the pair of them. We'll manage.

We would be on par with the likes of league or Ireland etc, Sky wouldnt pay anywhere near as much money on tv deals. Its like saying the German league should get rid of Bayer as they keep on winning the league

[Pagan Hibernia]

Voted to expand the league but feel that we have to grow our club to become as big as the old firm otherwise what’s the point?

The success of Rangers and Celtic demonstrates there is a blueprint for success, setting third as our target year after year is embarrassing.

how on earth can we grow to become ‘as big as them’? Ron Gordon is doing everything he can to grow our club but he knows as well as anyone that we’re never going to compete with them financially..

the success of Rangers and Celtic owes everything to historical hatred’s feeding off each other, and football authorities caving in to them at every turn to prevent anyone else getting a share of the pie. And certainly in the case of Rangers spending money they don’t really have. Absolutely nothing they do should be taken as a blueprint for any other club.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Having ripped into you somewhat for your bizarre statement on another thread that Hibs remaining 3rd today would take an "absolute miracle", I want to take my hat off to you for the above assessment. I don't think that ditching the OF or introducing any form of handicapping would be helpful - or realistic. What is an under acknowledged fact is that the SPL for all it's faults is well supported and rarely short on drama and talking points and could be a great avenue to kudos for various attention seeking billionaires - more than that though it is clearly undersold in terms of media deals - something that I'm happy to note is curently under review with Oor Ron taking a central role in proceedings.

To be honest when I made that statement I didn't realise Hearts were away to Aberdeen, I thought they would be at home with us being away. I also thought Aberdeen were closer to us than they were .... that'll teach me to post before I look at the table and fixtures :greengrin .... I still wouldn't have changed my opinion on the chances of us getting a result in Glasgow though ... looks like I was right, though I wish I hadn't been 'that' right.

Even if my opinion is that Hibs are very unlikely to get a result in a particular match and I give that opinion on here that doesn't mean I wont go along and support them in it if I can ... my opinion on the folk who copped out of our semi final v Hearts last season coz they thought we were going to lose was voiced long and loud on here at the time.

The way I look at it is this. At the end of the day I want Hibs to win every game, but like everybody else I know that's never going to happen .... I love it when we win and don't get too down when we lose, for me it's all about supporting Hibs win or lose, some defeats hurt more than others for sure, but I'm long past being bothered that we'll never win the league in my lifetime, there's more to supporting a club than that.

[Libby Hibby]

To be honest when I made that statement I didn't realise Hearts were away to Aberdeen, I thought they would be at home with us being away. I also thought Aberdeen were closer to us than they were .... that'll teach me to post before I look at the table and fixtures :greengrin .... I still wouldn't have changed my opinion on the chances of us getting a result in Glasgow though ... looks like I was right, though I wish I hadn't been 'that' right.

Even if my opinion is that Hibs are very unlikely to get a result in a particular match and I give that opinion on here that doesn't mean I wont go along and support them in it if I can ... my opinion on the folk who copped out of our semi final v Hearts last season coz they thought we were going to lose was voiced long and loud on here at the time.

The way I look at it is this. At the end of the day I want Hibs to win every game, but like everybody else I know that's never going to happen .... I love it when we win and don't get too down when we lose, for me it's all about supporting Hibs win or lose, some defeats hurt more than others for sure, but I'm long past being bothered that we'll never win the league in my lifetime, there's more to supporting a club than that.

Bang on NN.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Who are the chairmen getting rich out of Scottish football with big salaries and bigger dividends?

I can't share your enthusiasm for a cold dreich February match against Ayr or Ross County when neither team has anything to play for.

The way clubs have been heading it wouldn't be inconceivable that the likes if Cove or Kelty could find themselves in an 18 team league. Sponsors and tv companies would NOT be interested in those 2 battling in out for 13th place at the rail end of winter.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Although I wouldn't be an advocate of a UK wide set up as it would seriously compromise our independence as a nation not only in a sporting sense but also in a cultural one too, it would be fascinating to see how we as a club would develop.

If you were to rewind the clock back 30 years to the dawn of the Sky TV revolution and compare Hibs to any medium English club, say a Burnley or Watford or a Swansea (since they are from outside England) and compare their development to ours.
Imagine three decades worth of the sky money which has made even modest championship teams very wealthy compared to us and I could conceive of a larger Easter Road, hosting larger crowds. That full size indoor pitch would be a reality and not just a pipe dream and so on and so forth.

[Greencore]

Wage cap. Only allowing a certain number of home grown players in the team.

[Keith_M]

The Rangers to move to Belfast and play in the Irish League

Celtc to move to Dublin and play in the League of Ireland



But... like the OP... that's just an emotional overreaction because we got humped at the weekend.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The Rangers to move to Belfast and play in the Irish League

Celtc to move to Dublin and play in the League of Ireland



But... like the OP... that's just an emotional overreaction because we got humped at the weekend.

Belfast already has a Rangers clone, they don’t need the real deal also

[Since452]

Voted for an expanded league because my favoured option wasn't there.

Celtic and Rangers to leave Scottish football, demolish Ibrox and Parkhead brick by brick and rebuild them south of the border. Preferably somewhere near Brighton.

[Steven1985]

We would be on par with the likes of league or Ireland etc, Sky wouldnt pay anywhere near as much money on tv deals. Its like saying the German league should get rid of Bayer as they keep on winning the league. You're actually agreeing with me without knowing it. Drop your pants and try not to arse bleed on the carpet. "Yeah, I want that. Long may it continue". I've got nothing against you, I don't know you, but take a step back and have a think for a minute. Those two *******s have strangled the life out of Scottish football for decades. Their fans might hate each other but there's no way those two clubs don't talk. They've been getting away with murder for years.

Quick question 1875Sean. Is the SPL a complete and utter waste of time or not as a competition in your opinion? Last team outside the OF to win it was Aberdeen in 1985. 1985 FFS

[Steven1985]

The Rangers to move to Belfast and play in the Irish League

Celtc to move to Dublin and play in the League of Ireland



But... like the OP... that's just an emotional overreaction because we got humped at the weekend. Rangers and Celtic to stay in the Champions League. So they can get tw@tted every Tues/Wed

[Ozyhibby]

Any league which did not have Celtic and Rangers would be a financial disaster for Hibs and would likely see us go bust.


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[Eyrie]

Any league which did not have Celtic and Rangers would be a financial disaster for Hibs and would likely see us go bust.


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Why would we go bust?

Why wouldn't we just cut our cloth accordingly?

[Ozyhibby]

Why would we go bust?

Why wouldn't we just cut our cloth accordingly?

That would be very difficult for us. Probably need to get rid of east mains for a start. Player budget would def plummet. We’d be watching a lower standard of football every week. Doesn’t sound like we’d be moving forward as a club?


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[MWHIBBIES]

Any league which did not have Celtic and Rangers would be a financial disaster for Hibs and would likely see us go bust.


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Behave yourself :faf:

You know there are 3 leagues under our one without Celtic and Rangers?

[Ozyhibby]

Behave yourself :faf:

You know there are 3 leagues under our one without Celtic and Rangers?

Are there any clubs in those leagues who operate with Hibs overheads?


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[chippy]

Any league which did not have Celtic and Rangers would be a financial disaster for Hibs and would likely see us go bust.


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Any Scottish League I think you mean. Hibs would do very well in an Atlantic League with or without the old firm ( say we were relegated to a 2nd tier now and again) . Similarly if we were ever in a revamped UK league.

[Since90+2]

Any Scottish League I think you mean. Hibs would do very well in an Atlantic League with or without the old firm ( say we were relegated to a 2nd tier now and again) . Similarly if we were ever in a revamped UK league.

What makes you think we'd do very well in an Atlantic league? For a club of our size we've performed pretty poorly in a Scottish League since the 80s.

[chippy]

What makes you think we'd do very well in an Atlantic league? For a club of our size we've performed pretty poorly in a Scottish League since the 80s.

Yes we’ve performed poorly in the Scottish league since the 80s and the introduction of freedom of contract , Bosman ruling, the reinvention of English football, the TV funding disparity between Scottish football and English / European states. In that same period Rangers and Celtic have dropped down to be 2nd/ 3rd tier European sides who at one time were potential European Cup winners- at least very competitive. The new firm did well in the early- mid 80s until the above reforms stuffed them. Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Motherwell, etc are routinely stuffed in Europe by 3rd, 4th, 5th tier ranked sides. Our direct competitors have more money from TV deals to buy players on the world market and keep their native good ones for a while. Why not throw our lot in with the Scandic leagues if we can get similar money than them why would we not be competitive with them? We are in the higher ranked clubs by attendance as are Jambos and Aberdeen. Of course it rules out away games for fans but I’m pretty sure a model could be developed to keep the Scottish Premier league to run alongside an Atlantic League. The AL doesn’t have to be a 16/18/20:club league playing everybody twice. The European Super league and I think some of the ideas for a revamped Champions league seem to be suggesting models where teams may get a minimum of 8 or 10 matches and only any more of they are successful. Starting off with 36 clubs. Why not Hibs?