Is it too early to mention the R word?

[truehibernian]

Definitely in trouble - no leaders on the park (again) and a naive inexperienced manager who’s not learned from his predecessors failings. That midfield today, as we and those managers before have seen time and time and time again, is as good as three men down (as a unit). How he even contemplated that selection today has me even more worried about Gray’s ability to manage.

[cabbageandribs1875]

yes far too early, today was a free hit we were never getting anything today

give the new dudes a chance to settle in

[The Tubs]

Definitely in trouble - no leaders on the park (again) and a naive inexperienced manager who’s not learned from his predecessors failings. That midfield today, as we and those managers before have seen time and time and time again, is as good as three men down (as a unit). How he even contemplated that selection today has me even more worried about Gray’s ability to manage.

I actually thought Bowie, Miller and the centre halves seemed to be players who were driving others on. For the level of football we play at, I’d say formations and even selections are secondary to getting the psychological bit right. If he can do that, we’ll be all right.

[DarlingtonHibee]

We will be absolutely nowhere near relegation this season.

Agreed. But nowhere near top six

[The Captain....]

A team that concedes goals at the rate we do, can't score and has a midfield that are as timid as a new born lambs..it's a blueprint for a poor season. I still think we'll have a similar finish to last season but anyone ruling out a relegation fight is mad as it stands.

[thebausburst]

0 shots on target today, 5 conceded first 2 games, all areas of pitch look poor, looks like the season is going to be a real slog to stay up.

[B.H.F.C]

We will be absolutely nowhere near relegation this season.

I don’t think we’ve shown anything to suggest we’ll be nowhere near it.

There isn’t any area of the team that looks like it functions properly. On top of that, there is a complete lack of leadership on the park.

We’re going to be reliant on individual players doing something here and there.

[ShetlandHibby]

Quite concerned after two games. Midfield is poor and the defence looks very vulnerable. This combined with what would appear to be a lack of goals is very worrying. Dundee and Kilmarnock to come could see us bottom with one or zero points

[Since452]

Will get a better indication when we play Dundee. If they scud us then yes, unfortunately its a real possibility. Against Celtic it's hard to tell.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I don’t think we’ve shown anything to suggest we’ll be nowhere near it.

There isn’t any area of the team that looks like it functions properly. On top of that, there is a complete lack of leadership on the park.

We’re going to be reliant on individual players doing something here and there.

We don't look particularly fit either, they looked knackered not long into the 2nd half.

[BoomtownHibees]

We don't look particularly fit either, they looked knackered not long into the 2nd half.

Cos they had been chasing shadows for 45 minutes

[Pretty Boy]

Cos they had been chasing shadows for 45 minutes

Actually chasing the shadows would have been a significant upgrade in effort levels in the 1st half.

[Gordy M]

I don’t think we’ve shown anything to suggest we’ll be nowhere near it.

There isn’t any area of the team that looks like it functions properly. On top of that, there is a complete lack of leadership on the park.

We’re going to be reliant on individual players doing something here and there.

We have played 2 league games, and one being Celtic. I actually thought the first half vs St Mirren we were decent and should have been ahead, 2nd half was poor but again we had chances. We have a habit on here of talking up other teams and making them out to be better than they are. Lets just see how the next few games go before damming the season. Interesting that this OP was for last season.....we were nowhere near it......stupid post then as it is now.

[Jim44]

Killie now down to 10 men and 0-2. We storm off the bottom position. We seem to do better in the league when we’re not playing.:greengrin

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

The problem will be the longer we go without a win. Next 2 league games are huge, Dundee at home and Killie away. We certainly don't want to be cut adrift early in the season. Epathy can set in too quickly, even if we are playing ok.

[blackpoolhibs]

Killie now down to 10 men and 0-2. We storm off the bottom position. We seem to do better in the league when we’re not playing.:greengrin
:faf::top marks

[He's here!]

We will be absolutely nowhere near relegation this season.

Based on what evidence? There's not a team in the league I'd be confident we'd beat right now. I did think maybe St Johnstone but even they're winning today.

If anything I'm struggling even more to see what our game plan under Gray is than under Monty. If the second half collapse at St Mirren was 'unacceptable' why did we see an even more lifeless first half display today? We look a very poor side I'm afraid.

[Gordy M]

Based on what evidence? There's not a team in the league I'd be confident we'd beat right now. I did think maybe St Johnstone but even they're winning today.

If anything I'm struggling even more to see what our game plan under Gray is than under Monty. If the second half collapse at St Mirren was 'unacceptable' why did we see an even more lifeless first half display today? We look a very poor side I'm afraid.

You started the original thread.....how did that work out? We have good players at this level, and will sign more. Thats why we wont be relegated or anywhere near it. Let me ask you, are Hearts a good team? Their fixtures so far kinda mirror ours, though based on last season id suggest ours were more difficult? They have 1 point, so relegation candidates? I mean thats how it works after 2 games?

[Jones28]

Based on what evidence? There's not a team in the league I'd be confident we'd beat right now. I did think maybe St Johnstone but even they're winning today.

If anything I'm struggling even more to see what our game plan under Gray is than under Monty. If the second half collapse at St Mirren was 'unacceptable' why did we see an even more lifeless first half display today? We look a very poor side I'm afraid.

I think this season is going to be a bit mad, with everyone outwith Celtic capable of beating everyone else.

Dundee at home will be a test of metal and quality, and what we can add to the squad in that time. Getting a midfielder in the door will be huge for us this season, someone dynamic who can turn and move the ball forward.

Relegation is a bit of a stretch, I’m not expecting anything other than a middle of the road finish this season with a big turnaround in players next summer.

I hate to mention it, but a transitional season is what was hinted at by MM, and I think he’s right. We will do enough to stay out of trouble before clearing the decks next summer.

[Iain G]

Will SDG last until September?

[BoomtownHibees]

Will SDG last until September?

Not if he continues playing the likes of Josh Campbell

[Iain G]

Not if he continues playing the likes of Josh Campbell

Impact player off the bench at best, has a nack of getting into good goalscoring positions...and that's really about it!

[BoomtownHibees]

Impact player off the bench at best, has a nack of getting into good goalscoring positions...and that's really about it!

Wouldn’t even have him on the bench tbh

[H18 SFR]

Anyone know how long David Gray’s new contract is?

[B.H.F.C]

We have played 2 league games, and one being Celtic. I actually thought the first half vs St Mirren we were decent and should have been ahead, 2nd half was poor but again we had chances. We have a habit on here of talking up other teams and making them out to be better than they are. Lets just see how the next few games go before damming the season. Interesting that this OP was for last season.....we were nowhere near it......stupid post then as it is now.

I’m not fussed for many/any other teams. For us, it’s been a disaster of a start for Gray though, between losing to Kelty and the start in the league. You can lack quality but we completely folded last week and failed to compete until it was far too late in our first home game of the season today. We look like a collection of individuals rather than a team, with a lot of the individuals being poor as well. It’s not a good place to be.

[Iain G]

Anyone know how long David Gray’s new contract is?

Hopefully for the next 2 weeks or so 🤣

[Gordy M]

I’m not fussed for many/any other teams. For us, it’s been a disaster of a start for Gray though, between losing to Kelty and the start in the league. You can lack quality but we completely folded last week and failed to compete until it was far too late in our first home game of the season today. We look like a collection of individuals rather than a team, with a lot of the individuals being poor as well. It’s not a good place to be.

But its other teams we play against? Surely if they arent as good as us, it makes a difference as to how we are able to play? If posted this before but teams 3-12 can all beat each other on any given day. Lets just see where we are in the next couple of weeks. Im confident it will look a lot better than currently. Contrary to whats posted on here on a daily basis, we do have good players at this level.

[H18 SFR]

I’m not fussed for many/any other teams. For us, it’s been a disaster of a start for Gray though, between losing to Kelty and the start in the league. You can lack quality but we completely folded last week and failed to compete until it was far too late in our first home game of the season today. We look like a collection of individuals rather than a team, with a lot of the individuals being poor as well. It’s not a good place to be.

I think Gray will soon realise the job is too big for a rookie and he will seek a mutual termination- aka resign. Looking at tr fixtures, I’d say October international break.

[NC1875]

But its other teams we play against? Surely if they arent as good as us, it makes a difference as to how we are able to play? If posted this before but teams 3-12 can all beat each other on any given day. Lets just see where we are in the next couple of weeks. Im confident it will look a lot better than currently. Contrary to whats posted on here on a daily basis, we do have good players at this level.

Who are these good players at this level ? Are these so called good players better than players at the majority of other teams ? Dundees midfield is certainly far better than ours.

I don’t think we’ll be anywhere near relegation but we also won’t be anywhere near where we should be given the money we spend.

That in itself is still failure.

Unless we get 2 starting midfielders in we’ll struggle against most teams, just like last season.

[wookie70]

If we don't find our way into the middle of the pack after the first round of fixtures I'll be worried. We lack any sense of urgency, very little energy and have no leadership or bit in the team. The Dundee game is turning into a far bigger game than it really should be. On the plus side Bowie looks a decent signing, Myko will surely improve and get fitter(he looks weeks away from that at the moment) and our other signing get fit enough to be considered. What we need is some runners in midfield with an ability to play too.

[Gordy M]

Who are these good players at this level ? Are these so called good players better than players at the majority of other teams ? Dundees midfield is certainly far better than ours.

I don’t think we’ll be anywhere near relegation but we also won’t be anywhere near where we should be given the money we spend.

That in itself is still failure.

Unless we get 2 starting midfielders in we’ll struggle against most teams, just like last season.

Sorry read that as Dundee Utd.......lets see if Dundee beat us next week. Of course they have good midfielders, thats why we are trying to sign one.

[A Hi-Bee]

If we don't find our way into the middle of the pack after the first round of fixtures I'll be worried. We lack any sense of urgency, very little energy and have no leadership or bit in the team. The Dundee game is turning into a far bigger game than it really should be. On the plus side Bowie looks a decent signing, Myko will surely improve and get fitter(he looks weeks away from that at the moment) and our other signing get fit enough to be considered. What we need is some runners in midfield with an ability to play too.

Celtic while way better than us, just moved the ball so much faster from defence to middle to attack, we was so pedestrian when we did manage to get the ball for longer than a minute. What is it with Hibs that we just want to give the other side the ball so much.

[He's here!]

You started the original thread.....how did that work out? We have good players at this level, and will sign more. Thats why we wont be relegated or anywhere near it. Let me ask you, are Hearts a good team? Their fixtures so far kinda mirror ours, though based on last season id suggest ours were more difficult? They have 1 point, so relegation candidates? I mean thats how it works after 2 games?

Hearts have finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd to our 8th, 5th and 8th. We've beaten them once since 2019. It's clear they're a significantly stronger team than us who will most likely finish 3rd again. I suspect we'll be 20 plus points behind them once more.

We've been mostly garbage for a few years now and in hindsight LJ did quite well to get a fifth place finish out of us. We only dodged a relegation battle last season due to a decent stopgap January transfer window. The Kelty defeat set alarm bells ringing and the way we've started the league season irrespective of the opposition marks us down as a team that will only continue to toil.

[Alfred E Newman]

I wouldn't be losing too much sleep over today's result. Yes we were overrun at times and completely outclassed but on their day Celtic will do that to most teams in the league. If we are still bottom after our next couple of league games I will start to worry.

[greenlex]

Hearts have finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd to our 8th, 5th and 8th. We've beaten them once since 2019. It's clear they're a significantly stronger team than us who will most likely finish 3rd again. I suspect we'll be 20 plus points behind them once more.

We've been mostly garbage for a few years now and in hindsight LJ did quite well to get a fifth place finish out of us. We only dodged a relegation battle last season due to a decent stopgap January transfer window. The Kelty defeat set alarm bells ringing and the way we've started the league season irrespective of the opposition marks us down as a team that will only continue to toil.
Absolute garbage.

[B.H.F.C]

But its other teams we play against? Surely if they arent as good as us, it makes a difference as to how we are able to play? If posted this before but teams 3-12 can all beat each other on any given day. Lets just see where we are in the next couple of weeks. Im confident it will look a lot better than currently. Contrary to whats posted on here on a daily basis, we do have good players at this level.

The problem is that we don’t look as good as most of the other teams.

They all have something about them, whether it’s an organisation, a system, or whatever.

What do we have? I’m not saying we’re certainties to get relegated or anything like that. What I am saying is that we have nowhere near enough about us to dismiss it out of hand. Would you back this group of players to scrap our results when you really need them?

[Hibees1973]

Ingredients for relegation.

1. Dodgy goalkeeper
2. Leaky defence
3. Unable to create/take goalscoring chances
4. Inexperienced, naive manager
5. Board/owners who do not have a clue
6. Lack of belief and confidence within the squad
7. Team is fragile, weak and will collapse when the going gets tough

We have all of these. So it's a yes from me, it's not too early to mention the R word.

The next Dundee game at home, it's vital we win or Ian Gordon & Kensell are going to get some serious criticism at the ground.

I'm not going to turn on Gray. But he has been incredibly naive to take the managers job when those around him are not up to it.

[B.H.F.C]

I think Gray will soon realise the job is too big for a rookie and he will seek a mutual termination- aka resign. Looking at tr fixtures, I’d say October international break.

There have been concerning things for me in the first couple of games.

I can’t believe he left things the same at half time today. We eventually competed a bit more once they took their foot off the gas a bit but there was zero reaction immediately after half time and how Celtic didn’t add to their lead at that point, I don’t know .

[He's here!]

I think this season is going to be a bit mad, with everyone outwith Celtic capable of beating everyone else.

Dundee at home will be a test of metal and quality, and what we can add to the squad in that time. Getting a midfielder in the door will be huge for us this season, someone dynamic who can turn and move the ball forward.

Relegation is a bit of a stretch, I’m not expecting anything other than a middle of the road finish this season with a big turnaround in players next summer.

I hate to mention it, but a transitional season is what was hinted at by MM, and I think he’s right. We will do enough to stay out of trouble before clearing the decks next summer.

A big turnaround in players NEXT summer?! We've signed seven or eight this summer (so far). How many more 'transitional' seasons do we need? Its' a meaningless word used to explain the fact that for years now we've signed stacks of players and the vast majority of them haven't been good enough.

[He's here!]

Absolute garbage.

It might not be what you want to read but it's true.

[Cabbage-Patch]

Ingredients for relegation.

1. Dodgy goalkeeper
2. Leaky defence
3. Unable to create/take goalscoring chances
4. Inexperienced, naive manager
5. Board/owners who do not have a clue
6. Lack of belief and confidence within the squad
7. Team is fragile, weak and will collapse when the going gets tough

We have all of these. So it's a yes from me, it's not too early to mention the R word.

The next Dundee game at home, it's vital we win or Ian Gordon & Kensell are going to get some serious criticism at the ground.

I'm not going to turn on Gray. But he has been incredibly naive to take the managers job when those around him are not up to it.

Agree with all of this asides the last comment. What would it have said about Gray had he not backed himself and accepted the job? He would have been unlikely to stay on in his last post. In saying that he shouldn't have been offered the job but I don't think he's naive for taking it.

Dundee game is massive. We lose that I think the tone for the season will be set and we could go down. We need at least 3 quality midfielders in and off the back of th3 1st few games another keeper plus 5 or 6 out the door.

Our board have a lot to answer for

[Since90+2]

Hearts have finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd to our 8th, 5th and 8th. We've beaten them once since 2019. It's clear they're a significantly stronger team than us who will most likely finish 3rd again. I suspect we'll be 20 plus points behind them once more.

We've been mostly garbage for a few years now and in hindsight LJ did quite well to get a fifth place finish out of us. We only dodged a relegation battle last season due to a decent stopgap January transfer window. The Kelty defeat set alarm bells ringing and the way we've started the league season irrespective of the opposition marks us down as a team that will only continue to toil.

You seem obsessed with Hearts. I wonder why.

[greenpaper55]

I think a lot of people need to get a grip, we have lost two games and the knives are out , absolutely pathetic. Seems the manager some were all shouting for Derek Mcinnes is doing even worse than we are , would you all be shouting for him to go after two results ?

[H18 SFR]

I’m not fussed for many/any other teams. For us, it’s been a disaster of a start for Gray though, between losing to Kelty and the start in the league. You can lack quality but we completely folded last week and failed to compete until it was far too late in our first home game of the season today. We look like a collection of individuals rather than a team, with a lot of the individuals being poor as well. It’s not a good place to be.

I think Gray will soon realise the job is too big for a rookie and he will seek a mutual termination- aka resign. Looking at tr fixtures, I’d say October international break.

[He's here!]

You seem obsessed with Hearts. I wonder why.

They're the benchmark we should be measuring ourselves especially against so comparisons are valid. Just because we currently fall short of them in pretty much every department doesn't make it somehow disloyal to Hibs to point it out.

The way they've stolen such a march on us is embarrassing, summed up by the way we've been reduced to trying to get one over on them by bragging about signing a player they may or may not have been interested in.

[Gordy M]

They're the benchmark we should be measuring ourselves especially against so comparisons are valid. Just because we currently fall short of them in pretty much every department doesn't make it somehow disloyal to Hibs to point it out.

The way they've stolen such a march on us is embarrassing, summed up by the way we've been reduced to trying to get one over on them by bragging about signing a player they may or may not have been interested in.

You didnt answer my question, they have one point from 2 games, thumped by Dundee, are they also relegation candidates?

[MWHIBBIES]

I think Gray will soon realise the job is too big for a rookie and he will seek a mutual termination- aka resign. Looking at tr fixtures, I’d say October international break.

No chance.

[He's here!]

I think a lot of people need to get a grip, we have lost two games and the knives are out , absolutely pathetic. Seems the manager some were all shouting for Derek Mcinnes is doing even worse than we are , would you all be shouting for him to go after two results ?

Most observers know McInnes will quickly turn that around. Who can honestly say the same about first-time manager Gray?

I'd dearly love him to prove me utterly wrong but there's a sense at present that no manager, no matter who he signs, can get a tune out of Hibs.

[marleyhib]

if we sort out the midfield i think we'll be fine, if not then i would not be surprised if we are flirting with relegation. I would not fancy us having to scrap to win points to stay up at the moment.

[The Modfather]

I think Gray will soon realise the job is too big for a rookie and he will seek a mutual termination- aka resign. Looking at tr fixtures, I’d say October international break.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mackay step in as manager before the season is finished. Then after a thorough recruitment search Mackay keeps the managers job and Marshall moves into the sporting director role.

[He's here!]

You didnt answer my question, they have one point from 2 games, thumped by Dundee, are they also relegation candidates?

I made it clear why they're a near stick-on to finish third again so obviously they're not relegation candidates.

A good team can get off to a patchy start. There's no evidence we're a good team.

[Gordy M]

I made it clear why they're a near stick-on to finish third again so obviously they're not relegation candidates.

A good team can get off to a patchy start. There's no evidence we're a good team.

Wait so they were a good team last year so not relegation candidates, we were also nowhere near relegation but we are......makes sense. As i said, this was a stupid thread last year, and will prove to be again.

And they are nowhere near stick on for 3rd place. Laughable.

[Jones28]

A big turnaround in players NEXT summer?! We've signed seven or eight this summer (so far). How many more 'transitional' seasons do we need? Its' a meaningless word used to explain the fact that for years now we've signed stacks of players and the vast majority of them haven't been good enough.

It’s not meaningless if it’s the case, as strongly suggested by our sporting director. In the grand scheme of things the 7 incoming players are replacements for guys that have left. Bowie for Maolida, Cadden for Stevenson, 2 goalies out, 2 in, Hanlon for Marv, O’Hora for Fish, Hoilett in all likelihood for Youan. It’s not as big a turnaround as saying “7 players have come in” might lead people to think it is.

In fact your last sentence is the reason this season will be a transitional one: a crap signing policy that has left us with budget blocking players on money that should allow us to sign real quality.

[blackpoolhibs]

We are certainly in worrying times, we need at least 4 better players in if we are to make top 6 in my opinion. 2 midfielders and 2 full backs.

[Hermit Crab]

Maybe not relegation but at the moment are absolutely bottom 6 dross.

[Hiber-nation]

Maybe not relegation but at the moment are absolutely bottom 6 dross.

A bit of positivity :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Yes. Any team thinking they are in relegation trouble after two games deserve to be relegated

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Yes. Any team thinking they are in relegation trouble after two games deserve to be relegated

It has to be said, this is a thread from 2 years ago that has been resurrected

[H18 SFR]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mackay step in as manager before the season is finished. Then after a thorough recruitment search Mackay keeps the managers job and Marshall moves into the sporting director role.

Agreed, there is simply no way David Gray is going to be in post long term. I feel sorry for him but his CV and experience just doesn’t stand up to the scrutiny of the post - full rebuild required, stepping in a caretaker a few times is simply not a foundation for the size of build required upon it.

In some ways the guy has been thrown under a bus, I’m not going to believe that everyone in the decision making process believed he was up to that job. Hope more than expectation.

[Chorley Hibee]

The truth of the matter is that David Gray wouldn't have got the manager's job at any other Premiership club.

The board are trying to hide behind his status as a player.

It's not going to end well.

[theonlywayisup]

We are five games in! Like shops decorated for Christmas, the relegation threads seem to arrive earlier every year.

Too true!

[He's here!]

Wait so they were a good team last year so not relegation candidates, we were also nowhere near relegation but we are......makes sense. As i said, this was a stupid thread last year, and will prove to be again.

And they are nowhere near stick on for 3rd place. Laughable.

Hearts were closer in points to the title than they were to the relegation play-off spot. We finished 11 points above 11th and looked on more than one occasion well capable of being dragged into a battle. Credit to Monty for a couple of good loan deals in January as they almost certainly kept us clear of serious trouble.

Without Livi to prop up the league this time round it's hard to say with any confidence we're too good to go down.

[He's here!]

Agreed, there is simply no way David Gray is going to be in post long term. I feel sorry for him but his CV and experience just doesn’t stand up to the scrutiny of the post - full rebuild required, stepping in a caretaker a few times is simply not a foundation for the size of build required upon it.

In some ways the guy has been thrown under a bus, I’m not going to believe that everyone in the decision making process believed he was up to that job. Hope more than expectation.

Full rebuild required?! What do we call the money we're throwing at things just now?

[Springbank]

Full rebuild required?! What do we call the money we're throwing at things just now?

Until we replace the midfield, you'd have to call it "misplaced" spending

2 keepers neither of which look ready

A defence our current midfielders can't protect
And an attack our current midfielders can't support

[Trinity Hibee]

When did we last start with 2 defeats in a league season?

[Alfred E Newman]

When did we last start with 2 defeats in a league season?

Last season?

[MountcastleHibs]

When did we last start with 2 defeats in a league season?

I asked my mate at the game, when was the first time we’d failed to score in our first 2 opening games?

[WestStandWillie]

Gray’s surrounded by chancers both on the park and off it.

Newell, Miller, Levitt, Campbell, Craig, Samson etc…

The latter two are serial losers.

[Cabbage-Patch]

So this is how I assess our "rebuild" so far

Keepers

Bursik has looked shaky to say the least been at fault for at least 2 of the goals we have conceded so far. Not seen enough of Smith but he was clearly signed as back up to Bursik so not hopeful

Defence

Big Marv has been shocking and looks lost at the pace of the Scottish game. Two shocking pass backs in the opening two games has lost us 2 goals. Rocky has to start next week with Ohora. Hopefully we can punt Harbottle and get another CB in before the window closes


Midfield

Pish, soft centred.We haven't improved it and it shows.Newell and Campbell as our starting centre mids will get us relegated. They are so easy to play through teams must be delighted to see thier names on the team sheet. We need 3 midfielders in minimum. A creative play maker and holding midfielder ideally. Get the likes of Kenneh and JDH off the books

Strikers

Bowie looks like he could be a decent signing but it's very very early days. Myko miles off it and shows he's hardly kicked a ball in a year. Needs minutes but hopefully form will come. Vente bereft of confidence. Saw him smiling to himself after celtic scored thier second whilst he was warming up. I wouldn't be surprised if he's loaned out and we bring another striker in.

2 games in and we are genuinely worried about relegation. Absolute laugh being a hibs fan eh

[He's here!]

Gray’s surrounded by chancers both on the park and off it.

Newell, Miller, Levitt, Campbell, Craig, Samson etc…

The latter two are serial losers.

You mean double cup-winning 'loser' Liam Craig? He's probably the biggest 'winner' at ER.

Pretty sure Samson also won the League Cup with St Mirren.

[He's here!]

Until we replace the midfield, you'd have to call it "misplaced" spending

2 keepers neither of which look ready

A defence our current midfielders can't protect
And an attack our current midfielders can't support

Fair points. I'm just staggered at the number of new players who've come through the doors at ER over the last few years yet we seem to be eternally 'rebuilding'.

[He's here!]

So this is how I assess our "rebuild" so far

Keepers

Bursik has looked shaky to say the least been at fault for at least 2 of the goals we have conceded so far. Not seen enough of Smith but he was clearly signed as back up to Bursik so not hopeful

Defence

Big Marv has been shocking and looks lost at the pace of the Scottish game. Two shocking pass backs in the opening two games has lost us 2 goals. Rocky has to start next week with Ohora. Hopefully we can punt Harbottle and get another CB in before the window closes


Midfield

Pish, soft centred.We haven't improved it and it shows.Newell and Campbell as our starting centre mids will get us relegated. They are so easy to play through teams must be delighted to see thier names on the team sheet. We need 3 midfielders in minimum. A creative play maker and holding midfielder ideally. Get the likes of Kenneh and JDH off the books

Strikers

Bowie looks like he could be a decent signing but it's very very early days. Myko miles off it and shows he's hardly kicked a ball in a year. Needs minutes but hopefully form will come. Vente bereft of confidence. Saw him smiling to himself after celtic scored thier second whilst he was warming up. I wouldn't be surprised if he's loaned out and we bring another striker in.

2 games in and we are genuinely worried about relegation. Absolute laugh being a hibs fan eh

So a dud keeper, a dud defender and a hopelessly unfit striker among the faces so far? Sounds promising. No wonder it's hard to get excited about new signings these days.

[Ringothedog]

So a dud keeper, a dud defender and a hopelessly unfit striker among the faces so far? Sounds promising. No wonder it's hard to get excited about new signings these days.

Some players take a little time to settle but you obviously know better and have already labelled them “duds”. WOW

[He's here!]

Some players take a little time to settle but you obviously know better and have already labelled them “duds”. WOW

I don't know better. I'm just summing up how that poster's assessment of the signings so far reads.

[Trinity Hibee]

Last season?

You’re right actually. Lost the first 3 games last season

[Heisenberg]

If we don’t recruit properly in midfield we will 100% be involved in a relegation battle. Given we’ve failed to sort it over a number of years my confidence in us getting it spot on now isn’t high.

[Lago]

You seem obsessed with Hearts. I wonder why.
He's made valid points, you may not agree but your inference is unnecessary.

[Ringothedog]

I don't know better. I'm just summing up how that poster's assessment of the signings so far reads.

You are summing up the way you think he has posted.Again you have absolutely nothing positive to say about a club you allegedly support

[hibsboy69]

Gray’s surrounded by chancers both on the park and off it.

Newell, Miller, Levitt, Campbell, Craig, Samson etc…

The latter two are serial losers.

Craig and Samson were appointed by Gray……….as was Eddie May. Serial losers😱😂

This isn’t going to end well !

[He's here!]

You are summing up the way you think he has posted.Again you have absolutely nothing positive to say about a club you allegedly support

After such a sustained period of underachievement/garbage it's hard to find many positives in the way we've started the season.

[MWHIBBIES]

The truth of the matter is that David Gray wouldn't have got the manager's job at any other Premiership club.

The board are trying to hide behind his status as a player.

It's not going to end well.


How is Gray getting the job any different from Naismith getting the job?

It's just nonsense to say that.

Same with Gerrard at the Huns. Both zero professional games, both got jobs in the Scottish top flight.

[B.H.F.C]

If we don’t recruit properly in midfield we will 100% be involved in a relegation battle. Given we’ve failed to sort it over a number of years my confidence in us getting it spot on now isn’t high.

My concern is that it now goes well beyond a couple of players fixing things.

The culture and attitude at the club is terrible. That is reflected on the park. That first half today was lacking in a plan, lacking in belief and lacking in leadership. We might occasionally pull a performance out, but there isn’t enough character and will to win in that team.

[stantonhibby]

Ingredients for relegation.

1. Dodgy goalkeeper
2. Leaky defence
3. Unable to create/take goalscoring chances
4. Inexperienced, naive manager
5. Board/owners who do not have a clue
6. Lack of belief and confidence within the squad
7. Team is fragile, weak and will collapse when the going gets tough

We have all of these. So it's a yes from me, it's not too early to mention the R word.

The next Dundee game at home, it's vital we win or Ian Gordon & Kensell are going to get some serious criticism at the ground.

I'm not going to turn on Gray. But he has been incredibly naive to take the managers job when those around him are not up to it.

Thought you were off here for a few weeks? Another attention seeking sabbatical not followed through. Look forward to your next announcement

[Ringothedog]

Thought you were off here for a few weeks? Another attention seeking sabbatical not followed through. Look forward to your next announcement

The amount of attention seekers on this site at the moment is really demoralising

[marinello59]

Let’s try and do this without throwing insults at each other. No need.

[DIXIHIBS]

The amount of attention seekers on this site at the moment is really demoralising

Spot on. Hopefully we will get a few points on the board soon and keep them quiet for a while.

[Ringothedog]

I am out, it’s obvious if you are not negative about The Hibs then you are given warnings. I will leave this site to the doom merchants.

[neil7908]

I think we need to see how the new signings settle in and anyone else we bring in in the next few weeks but we need to start picking up points now.

This is always the risk in starting the season with half a team and hoping better becomes available later - by the time the window closes we could find ourselves practically out of contention for 3rd if results don't go our way, and potentially already in a relegation scrap.

When you see us losing 3-0 to Saint Mirren one week, and then them getting beat by St Johnstone the next its entirely reasonable to be worried.

[B.H.F.C]

I think we need to see how the new signings settle in and anyone else we bring in in the next few weeks but we need to start picking up points now.

This is always the risk in starting the season with half a team and hoping better becomes available later - by the time the window closes we could find ourselves practically out of contention for 3rd if results don't go our way, and potentially already in a relegation scrap.

When you see us losing 3-0 to Saint Mirren one week, and then them getting beat by St Johnstone the next its entirely reasonable to be worried.

We need the new players in and we need to settle on a team quickly. My concern is how we fit them all together. I hope they’ve been brought in with some kind of idea on who plays where, how we set up and how we play.

I know Gray has spoken about being flexible and having a plan A, B and C. Problem today was that we didn’t even look like we had a plan A, never mind anything else.

[Stuart93]

I asked my mate at the game, when was the first time we’d failed to score in our first 2 opening games?

Not just fail to score, fail to have a single shot on target

[Stuart93]

Spot on. Hopefully we will get a few points on the board soon and keep them quiet for a while.

Why do you think “they” aren’t quiet currently?

Is it because we’ve been absolute pish? Or because people aren’t just happy to bury their heads in the sand anymore and be strung along?

[He's here!]

I think we need to see how the new signings settle in and anyone else we bring in in the next few weeks but we need to start picking up points now.

This is always the risk in starting the season with half a team and hoping better becomes available later - by the time the window closes we could find ourselves practically out of contention for 3rd if results don't go our way, and potentially already in a relegation scrap.

When you see us losing 3-0 to Saint Mirren one week, and then them getting beat by St Johnstone the next its entirely reasonable to be worried.

We were out of contention for third before the season even started.

[cocteautwin]

We were out of contention for third before the season even started.

One point behind James Anderson’s Financially Doped Army, the favourites for third place

[stalbanshibby]

Stunningly awful performance today. I would say unbelievably bad but it was sadly all too believable. Another big support in the wake of a feelgood result, another kick in the teeth. Inexcusable, thoroughly depressing and deeply alarming.

The sense that we have progressed not one iota from the dog days of last season was all too prevalent and, if anything, it felt as though we're going backwards.

I tipped us for an 8th or 9th place finish before the league campaign kicked off but now I'm not so sure I wasn't over optimistic.

Based on how we're playing now - absolute shambles, with no confidence, belief, or clue - I struggle to see another SPL side that we could beat. There's far too many players on a nice wage and comfortable life style at Hibs - that's why we're soft, and even a bit of a laughing stock. All the gear and no idea. There's also too many crap players - Josh Campbell was shocking yesterday, Levitt couldn't pass a parcel, let alone a football. and Newell was piss poor. Defence all ball watching

Celtic were awesome first half yesterday - everything we're not: speed of thought, football intelligence, cohesive teamwork, understanding between players, dynamic, accurate, clinical.

David Gray has inherited this. You have to give him time, but yes we could get relegated. Maybe then the Board will f*** off

[zero-seven]

Not funny anymore, sick of the mediocrity and the lack of understanding and communication between players. Need a complete overhaul starting with the common denominators, Kinsell, Campbell, JDH, Levitt and Boyle. Wage thieves everyone of them. Celtic could have scored at will, which shows the gulf in class in massive. I reckon we will be in a relegation dog fight as we don’t have a clue. McGowan won’t make a huge difference with the squad we have

sad

[MountcastleHibs]

Not just fail to score, fail to have a single shot on target

Think we had 2 or 3 on target v St Mirren. Not that that’s much better.

[DIXIHIBS]

Why do you think “they” aren’t quiet currently?

Is it because we’ve been absolute pish? Or because people aren’t just happy to bury their heads in the sand anymore and be strung along?

Because 'they' seem to thrive when we are doing badly but clam up if we are doing well. Don't see anyone burying their heads in the sand but we've made quite a few signings now and like it or not it takes time for them to... hopefully...change things.

[Newhaven]

One point behind James Anderson’s Financially Doped Army, the favourites for third place

That is straw clutching at its finest

You know deep down they will be miles ahead of us come the end of the season.

[Heisenberg]

That is straw clutching at its finest

You know deep down they will be miles ahead of us come the end of the season.

I’m not sure, they looked just as bad against Dundee as we did against St Mirren the week before. That’s with a Thursday/Sunday schedule to come too

[Jones28]

Gray’s surrounded by chancers both on the park and off it.

Newell, Miller, Levitt, Campbell, Craig, Samson etc…

The latter two are serial losers.

Can you define how the latter 2 are serial losers and chancers?

Not a very nice thing to level at two new appointees, one of whom was our captain and won a cup double at our expense 3 years ago.

[WestStandWillie]

Can you define how the latter 2 are serial losers and chancers?

Not a very nice thing to level at two new appointees, one of whom was our captain and won a cup double at our expense 3 years ago.

Liam Craig captained us to relegation. A season of finger pointing and poor performances. Best thing we did was getting rid of that. So far all i've seen him do is sit staring at an ipad all game. Assistant managers should be up and at the players. Samson was at least animated yesterday, i'll give him that.

[Bridge hibs]

Liam Craig captained us to relegation. A season of finger pointing and poor performances. Best thing we did was getting rid of that. So far all i've seen him do is sit staring at an ipad all game. Assistant managers should be up and at the players. Samson was at least animated yesterday, i'll give him that.

How many coaches do you want standing and being animated ? Ffs its not the Maybury amateur leagues 🤣

Craig was probably watching specifics from a coaching point of view with the ipad, he wasnt sitting on his hole watching Netflix

[WestStandWillie]

How many coaches do you want standing and being animated ? Ffs its not the Maybury amateur leagues 🤣

Craig was probably watching specifics from a coaching point of view with the ipad, he wasnt sitting on his hole watching Netflix

"Watching specifics" - so he's sat and watched the midfield do the square root of heehaw for almost the whole match and didn't feel compelled to get instructions to them. He's a former midfielder FFS.

Boys a fraud. Hated him as a player, he's doing nothing to win me over in the coaching role.

[Trinity Hibee]

"Watching specifics" - so he's sat and watched the midfield do the square root of heehaw for almost the whole match and didn't feel compelled to get instructions to them. He's a former midfielder FFS.

Boys a fraud. Hated him as a player, he's doing nothing to win me over in the coaching role.

I find it hard to believe that fans are repeatedly seeing this midfields failing yet none of the staff are seeing it or are choosing to do nothing about it. We haven’t even attempted a different setup.

[Contador]

Joe Newell being the best candidate we have for captaincy is enough for me to suggest that we are relegation candidates. Total lack of leadership throughout the squad.

He is an average player at best and after listening to multiple interviews with him he doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy with personality, charism or intelligence to be a captain.

[Trinity Hibee]

Joe Newell being the best candidate we have for captaincy is enough for me to suggest that we are relegation candidates. Total lack of leadership throughout the squad.

He is an average player at best and after listening to multiple interviews with him he doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy with personality, charism or intelligence to be a captain.

Sadly have to agree

[overdrive]

Liam Craig captained us to relegation. A season of finger pointing and poor performances. Best thing we did was getting rid of that. So far all i've seen him do is sit staring at an ipad all game. Assistant managers should be up and at the players. Samson was at least animated yesterday, i'll give him that.

Possibly not allowed anymore. I'm not sure if the rule change applies up here but they mentioned on the commentary of one of the English Championship matches that the rules have changed so that only one member of staff is allowed to be standing in the technical area at a time, so effectively if the manager is out there, the assistant can't be. They said they'll get away with an assistant getting up and whispering something in the ear of the manager as long as they go and sit down right away but not much more than that.

[MWHIBBIES]

"Watching specifics" - so he's sat and watched the midfield do the square root of heehaw for almost the whole match and didn't feel compelled to get instructions to them. He's a former midfielder FFS.

Boys a fraud. Hated him as a player, he's doing nothing to win me over in the coaching role.

Do you think a coach giving a few instructions is suddenly going to have us beating Celtic in midfield?

[paddy1875]

I find it hard to believe that fans are repeatedly seeing this midfields failing yet none of the staff are seeing it or are choosing to do nothing about it. We haven’t even attempted a different setup.

This is what does my head in at times. When the team was announced yesterday, we all knew there was no possible hope of that midfield doing anything to stop Celtic. They all had absolute stinkers.

I’m not a fan of newell at all but even he couldn’t pass to a Hibs player.

There’s is no midfield players on the books we could have played to stop them or even compete with Celtic. We really need a complete overhaul of the playing staff in that area or we’ll be treading water for entirety of the season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Liam Craig captained us to relegation. A season of finger pointing and poor performances. Best thing we did was getting rid of that. So far all i've seen him do is sit staring at an ipad all game. Assistant managers should be up and at the players. Samson was at least animated yesterday, i'll give him that.

He then went on to win a cup double with St Johnston - mostly at our expense. He captained the worst season of most of our lives, but there were far bigger problems at the club than Liam Craig, the fud of a manager telling most of the squad they were surplus to requirements 5 months before the end of the season.

Anyway thats kind of ancient history, I think it's a really unfair accusation to level at someone who is ultimately doing their best for the club and to hold one season over their heads 10 years later is unfair, especially when they made a positive contribution the following season.

[flash]

Do you think a coach giving a few instructions is suddenly going to have us beating Celtic in midfield?

Maybe he should have been concentrating on sneaking the subs on without taking anybody off as that was the only way we were getting anything from yesterday and even that's doubtful.

[Bridge hibs]

"Watching specifics" - so he's sat and watched the midfield do the square root of heehaw for almost the whole match and didn't feel compelled to get instructions to them. He's a former midfielder FFS.

Boys a fraud. Hated him as a player, he's doing nothing to win me over in the coaching role.He is a coach, what do you want him to do ? Stop being a drama queen ! You hate him I get that

[He's here!]

Liam Craig captained us to relegation. A season of finger pointing and poor performances. Best thing we did was getting rid of that. So far all i've seen him do is sit staring at an ipad all game. Assistant managers should be up and at the players. Samson was at least animated yesterday, i'll give him that.

Relegation was all on Butcher. To be in the top six after the new year derby win (secured by Liam Craig's goal) and end up going down was managerial ineptitude of the highest order.

Craig wasn't anywhere near our poorest player that season and he'd be one of our best in the current team.

[Newhaven]

I’m not sure, they looked just as bad against Dundee as we did against St Mirren the week before. That’s with a Thursday/Sunday schedule to come too

With the squad and momentum they have they’ll be streets ahead of us this season. For us the target has to be avoiding relegation which already looks inevitable.

Nice hospitality though

[Joe6-2]

I find it hard to believe that fans are repeatedly seeing this midfields failing yet none of the staff are seeing it or are choosing to do nothing about it. We haven’t even attempted a different setup.

We have had season upon season with the same problems not being addressed by manager upon manager, defence especially (trying now) and midfield

[He's here!]

We look to have injected a bit of quality up front but nobody can claim that defence is going to inspire confidence. Both Dundee goals entirely avoidable today.

Lose at Killie next week (entirely feasible) and the pressure's really on.

[NC1875]

Better hope Ross County don’t get any better or we’ll be in trouble.

[lyonhibs]

Yes. Months too early in fact

[Pretty Boy]

The ability to self destruct, another 2 disastrous goals to lose today, is something that sees teams relegated.

I think we have just about enough up top though that we will be able to dig ourselves out of any real trouble.

Are we good enough for it to be totally out of the question going into the last 5 games because we are top 6? I'm not close to convinced of that yet. We look like we will need to score 2 or 3 every game to have a chance of 3 points.

[HIBS NUTS]

What a pathetic thread

[He's here!]

The ability to self destruct, another 2 disastrous goals to lose today, is something that sees teams relegated.

I think we have just about enough up top though that we will be able to dig ourselves out of any real trouble.

Are we good enough for it to be totally out of the question going into the last 5 games because we are top 6? I'm not close to convinced of that yet. We look like we will need to score 2 or 3 every game to have a chance of 3 points.

Yep, the managers come and go but conceding soft goals and almost radiating uncertainty when a goal ahead with just minutes to play remains a constant.

[Northernhibee]

It’s not too early, genuinely think it’s between us and Ross County for favourites to go down. Especially when Dundee United look useful after coming up.

[Bridge hibs]

What a pathetic thread

Its nuts

You do realise its from 2 years ago

[Jim44]

Yes. Months too early in fact

I suppose we have the winter window to shore up the defence and keep our heads above water. So it probably is a bit early. A top six position is out of the question in my opinion.

[hibIBZ]

We already look like a team that is in trouble. The body language of the players is not good. There doesn’t seem to be much of a team spirit, the fans are not happy, recruitment looks terrible again, a club captain people think should be dropped, fundamentally limited players, rookie head coach who was under pressure on his first day in the job.

There is every chance if we don’t get a few wins and we continue in a bad run we will struggle to turn it around, saying that I think we look like a team that will finish 7-9, which really is not acceptable

[Smartie]

We've taken a piss poor defence and made it worse, any team doing that is likely to find themselves in some sort of trouble.

There are new signings who look like they need replaced already.

From midfield to front there were reasons to be optimistic but with that defence there will be huge pressure on them to get enough goals to win games.

You look at the league and it feels easy to talk up other teams but not us. Celtic, Rangers - very good teams. Hearts, Aberdeen - probably pretty good teams. Dundee, St Mirren, Kilmarnock - all good teams relative to resources. You'd be expecting these teams to do better than us. By the time you get down to Motherwell and the unpredictable, newly promoted Dundee United, you're getting to team that you think may be more or less our level.

We're probably hoping Ross County and St Johnstone continue to stink the place out in order to prevent us slipping into a relegation battle.

But if you were to take GK, a back 4 and a DM as a 6 - I think we're between 4 and 6 players short of where we need to be to be challenging for the places immediately below Celtic and Rangers. Our defence is absolutely miles off that, miles and miles off it.

[hibee_girl]

It’s not too early, genuinely think it’s between us and Ross County for favourites to go down. Especially when Dundee United look useful after coming up.

We’re three games in 😆

[HIBS NUTS]

Its nuts

You do realise its from 2 years ago
It was nuts 2 years ago, and it’s nuts now .
I wish I could bet every idiot on this thread, that hibs won’t get relegated this season.
But I just ignore, probably mostly drunken bams anyway .

[Heisenberg]

We’ve been brutal defensively in every league game so far. It definitely looks like a defence and keeper that’ll be involved at the wrong end of the table.

[overdrive]

Not too early. Unless we sign an entire back 4 and new keeper that are all decent unlike the current incumbents imminently, we will be really struggling. Given 3 out of the current starters of those 5 positions (plus the backup goalkeeper) were signed in this window, I have absolutely no faith that we’ll sign those players or if we did that they’d be remotely up to scratch.

[He's here!]

Not too early. Unless we sign an entire back 4 and new keeper that are all decent unlike the current incumbents imminently, we will be really struggling. Given 3 out of the current starters of those 5 positions (plus the backup goalkeeper) were signed in this window, I have absolutely no faith that we’ll sign those players or if we did that they’d be remotely up to scratch.

Yes, unlikely in the extreme we'd sign another two CHs and a keeper having just signed those very players.

The fact we now seem even more fragile defensively than we were isn't encouraging however.

[Nicho87]

What could possibly go wrong

We’ve signed two centre half’s from lower league England

And a young goalie with little experience who nobody has ever heard off

We also have a captain very much of the Liam Craig mould where 1 game game out of ten is deemed acceptable

I’ve accepted bottom 6 already

Staying out the play offs will be a good season

[GreenCastle]

We've taken a piss poor defence and made it worse, any team doing that is likely to find themselves in some sort of trouble.

There are new signings who look like they need replaced already.

From midfield to front there were reasons to be optimistic but with that defence there will be huge pressure on them to get enough goals to win games.

You look at the league and it feels easy to talk up other teams but not us. Celtic, Rangers - very good teams. Hearts, Aberdeen - probably pretty good teams. Dundee, St Mirren, Kilmarnock - all good teams relative to resources. You'd be expecting these teams to do better than us. By the time you get down to Motherwell and the unpredictable, newly promoted Dundee United, you're getting to team that you think may be more or less our level.

We're probably hoping Ross County and St Johnstone continue to stink the place out in order to prevent us slipping into a relegation battle.

But if you were to take GK, a back 4 and a DM as a 6 - I think we're between 4 and 6 players short of where we need to be to be challenging for the places immediately below Celtic and Rangers. Our defence is absolutely miles off that, miles and miles off it.

Good post.

Goals conceded so far in the league..2 -2 - 3

If we don’t add a new keeper or defenders in before closes we will continue to leak goals.

We haven’t kept a clean sheet against a top 6 team for a long time.

Losing goals in never good but losing late goals really makes draws feel like losses.

[Donegal Hibby]

What a pathetic thread


Its nuts

You do realise its from 2 years ago

Glad it’s not just me that thinks it’s ridiculous.

[hibee316]

Hyperbole.net

[Carheenlea]

What a pathetic thread

A lot of fans are still haunted by the Butcher disaster of 2014 and are determined not to see a repeat of that shameful period.

I think fans do have a good sense of when things may start pointing towards an alarming situation with previous experience, and while it is of course just the beginning of season there are already questions being asked of our weaknesses and how damaging our defence might be in achieving success in the upper half of league rather than lower.

Ideally this thread disappears off the front page for good soon, but the fans won’t be sleepwalking into a relegation fight after seeing it all before, and if the form is such that we are getting bogged down at wrong end of table then a thread like this is more than merited.

[Donegal Hibby]

Two years ago it was mentioned we could get relegated, we didn’t. Last season it was mentioned again , we didn’t . This season we WON’T either! .

[Glory Lurker]

Looking at how we ended last season, and how we've started this one, what is it that means we can discount getting relegated, or at least ending up in a scrap down there? What is it folk are seeing that lets them be so dismissive?

[Northernhibee]

We’re three games in 😆

Yeah, but I posted near the end of last season about the alarming similarities between us and the last times both Dundee United and Hearts were relegated. I still see those similarities - a lack of character, a tendency to leak easy goals at the start and end of games, and a squad that is both bloated and lacking in depth of quality.

There’s kind of a formula for a bigger team to get relegated - not enough quality to beat the bigger teams, not enough character to grind out results against smaller teams. We’ve also sacked so many managers recently we’ve painted ourselves into a corner - I’m confident SDG will come good, but if he doesn’t then we either stick with him, or sack him and be spectacularly unappealing for any decent manager given our record.

We’re in a precarious position and it’s foolhardy to pretend otherwise.

[SickBoy32]

Looking at how we ended last season, and how we've started this one, what is it that means we can discount getting relegated, or at least ending up in a scrap down there? What is it folk are seeing that lets them be so dismissive?

They’re trusting the process.

Ultimately the culmination of the Gordon / Kensell / Newell era will be a relegation. Only then will we maybe get the change we require.

[Jones28]

They’re trusting the process.

Ultimately the culmination of the Gordon / Kensell / Newell era will be a relegation. Only then will we maybe get the change we require.

Rank rotten mentioning JN as though he’s as problematic as those two.

Dreadful chat.

[Cabbage-Patch]

This team could definitely get us relegated. It has all the hallmarks already. Dodgy defence and keeper, soft midfield and if Bowie gets injured where's the goals coming from?

We have signed 9 players but somehow look weaker than last season, Particularly in defence. Literally every position needs strengthened. The following must be signed in the next 6 days or it's damage limitation until the January window

GK
CB
CM
Backup striker

[IberianHibernian]

We`re in a league where 10 of the 12 clubs can get relegated . Many of our fans get angry when making top 6 is mentioned as being an objective even if just minimum objective . Will be the same for many Hearts and Aberdeen fans and for fans of other clubs in our division when they`re doing well . But reality is that bad luck with injuries , refereeing decisions , etc etc means that stronger teams can miss out on top 6 maybe only on goal difference and end up in relegation trouble .especially as 11th can lead to relegation as we well know from 10 years ago . Likewise teams scrape into the top 6 despite being rubbish and do relatively well in Europe like us in 2023 . Anyway , on what I saw of Hibs today I don`t think we are going to be in relegation trouble this season . In fact I think we are going to make top 6 and hopefully challenge for top 3 or 4 ( remember we could miss out unluckily on top 6 like in 2022 or 2024 or scrape into top 6 like in 2023 when we should have finished above Hearts and maybe Aberdeen too ) . But that doesn`t mean we won`t be 11th or 12th in league for a few weeks or even months before 2025 .

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think we’ll get relegated. I don’t think the season will be terribly different to last season. We’ll get to the last week pre-split with a chance of scraping in (or not) and it’ll all end up hinging on that.

We’ll have enough goals in us to pick up wins, it’ll just be impossible to do it consistently with how we defend.

[Tyler Durden]

I think today was an example that we’ll always nick a goal, even when playing poorly. We’ve got too many good individuals for that to be a concern.

We need to find a way to keep clean sheets. Which looks unlikely with this keeper

[He's here!]

They’re trusting the process.

Ultimately the culmination of the Gordon / Kensell / Newell era will be a relegation. Only then will we maybe get the change we require.

That's the way I see it. I just don't think 'the process' has any semblance of coherence about it and largely amounts to sanctioning yet another raft of signings and hoping for a better outcome.

There are shades of Everton about us. Big, established club continually struggling to live up to expectations and ultimately destined for the drop if unable to find a way out of a repetitive cycle of utter mediocrity/incompetence.

Simply stating 'we won't go down' doesn't strike me as a valid reason for it not to be a possibility.

As you say, maybe it's a hit worth taking to effect meaningful change.

[we are hibs]

We've won 5 out of our last 24 league games. Abysmal

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Golden Bear]

Different players but the same boring pathetic pedestrian style of play. Best we can hope for is to avoid the play offs.

[Trinity Hibee]

We've won 5 out of our last 24 league games. Abysmal

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

****ing hell that is brutal

[Alfred E Newman]

It’s been said already but there is something just not right about the club. There is no real spark, no passion, no feeling that we are heading in the right direction.
The supporters are weary and their loyalty is being tested to the limit after season upon season watching different players make the same old mistakes and in some cases the same players. Does the frustration in the stands get through to the players and affect their performance? I don’t know, but the difference between the two teams today was like night and day. There was a spirit and togetherness about Dundee both on and of the park, yet for all that we should have won. We had the game won, till yet another moment of madness.
I thought the crowd really got behind the team in the second half and the atmosphere was good for a change but most of us probably had a good idea what was coming.
I worry for David Gray, I really do. The Board took a massive gamble asking a rookie manager to take on the task of turning this club around and I sincerely hope it is not going to backfire.

[Crab apple]

If we don't get the defence and keeper sorted out then bottom 6 is a certainty. Ross County and St Johnstone will struggle badly this year and I suspect they will be in the bottom two positions.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

If we don't get the defence and keeper sorted out then bottom 6 is a certainty. Ross County and St Johnstone will struggle badly this year and I suspect they will be in the bottom two positions.

This for me. Unless we can sort out that defence we have no chance of top 6 and will struggle all season.

The result today was our most common result last season, we had what eight or nine 2-2 draws last season? We simply cannot continue to ship the same number of goals and expect anything this season. Awful recruitment. I had hoped Gray would have at least sorted the defensive frailties this team have had. Obviously not.

[He's here!]

This for me. Unless we can sort out that defence we have no chance of top 6 and will struggle all season.

The result today was our most common result last season, we had what eight or nine 2-2 draws last season? We simply cannot continue to ship the same number of goals and expect anything this season. Awful recruitment. I had hoped Gray would have at least sorted the defensive frailties this team have had. Obviously not.

It feels as though there are more people than ever before involved in the recruitment process yet as you say it seems largely 'awful'. Bowie for sure looks like he's set to justify the price tag but the defensive/GK additions aren't filling anyone with confidence so far.

[MWHIBBIES]

Rank rotten mentioning JN as though he’s as problematic as those two.

Dreadful chat.

The agenda against him is just embarrassing now.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

What would be concerning if we got relegated is whether we could come up the first time of asking

[JimBHibees]

We've won 5 out of our last 24 league games. Abysmal

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Some record that

[blackpoolhibs]

Nothing would surprise me with Hibs.

[Onion]

It’s been said already but there is something just not right about the club. There is no real spark, no passion, no feeling that we are heading in the right direction.
The supporters are weary and their loyalty is being tested to the limit after season upon season watching different players make the same old mistakes and in some cases the same players. Does the frustration in the stands get through to the players and affect their performance? I don’t know, but the difference between the two teams today was like night and day. There was a spirit and togetherness about Dundee both on and of the park, yet for all that we should have won. We had the game won, till yet another moment of madness.
I thought the crowd really got behind the team in the second half and the atmosphere was good for a change but most of us probably had a good idea what was coming.
I worry for David Gray, I really do. The Board took a massive gamble asking a rookie manager to take on the task of turning this club around and I sincerely hope it is not going to backfire.

Wasn't a gamble, it was a coward's appointment. Board went for the easy / cheap / sentimental option in blind hope that somehow, anyhow it might prove a better bet than the previous crap appointments the've made. It smacked of penny-pinching and picking a guy who would be much less demanding in support / funding than someone who brought with them experience, track record and reputation (eg a McIness). There was nothing brave or ambitious about the Board/Owner choosing SDG, and they will soon feel the full wrath of Foley unless SDG / Hibs turn this all around. SDG could get hung out to dry in the process.

[B.H.F.C]

Wasn't a gamble, it was a coward's appointment. Board went for the easy / cheap / sentimental option in blind hope that somehow, anyhow it might prove a better bet than the previous crap appointments the've made. It smacked of penny-pinching and picking a guy who would be much less demanding in support / funding than someone who brought with them experience, track record and reputation (eg a McIness). There was nothing brave or ambitious about the Board/Owner choosing SDG, and they will soon feel the full wrath of Foley unless SDG / Hibs turn this all around. SDG could get hung out to dry in the process.

I don’t think they’ll be worried in the slightest about feeling the wrath of Foley. They’ll just ignore it and we’ll see more of the same.

The early signs are not good for Gray. I badly want him to do well but I worry about him being in a position he shouldn’t be in.

[Callum_62]

Wasn't a gamble, it was a coward's appointment. Board went for the easy / cheap / sentimental option in blind hope that somehow, anyhow it might prove a better bet than the previous crap appointments the've made. It smacked of penny-pinching and picking a guy who would be much less demanding in support / funding than someone who brought with them experience, track record and reputation (eg a McIness). There was nothing brave or ambitious about the Board/Owner choosing SDG, and they will soon feel the full wrath of Foley unless SDG / Hibs turn this all around. SDG could get hung out to dry in the process.I don't buy this hung out to dry chat at all

Gray is getting nearly a full team of new players in including potentially breaking our transfer record

There no excuse for Gray, if he can't make us a cohesive unit that's on him

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[Golden Bear]

I don't buy this hung out to dry chat at all

Gray is getting nearly a full team of new players in including potentially breaking our transfer record

There no excuse for Gray, if he can't make us a cohesive unit that's on him

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

I totally agree.

[WestStandWillie]

I don’t think we’ll get relegated. Another load of bottom 6 games beckons unless we go all out and get McCowan and another keeper.

[Dashing Bob S]

…not if you’re a Jambo

[Smartie]

I don’t think we’ll get relegated. Another load of bottom 6 games beckons unless we go all out and get McCowan and another keeper.

I think we’re at least 3 or 4 players off being top 6 material.

Dunno about relegation, and where we are relative to Ross County and co.

[Springbank]

We will keep conceding goals til we overhaul the midfield

For all his plus points Newell stands many yards off his man when the other side has the ball. He's not the only one.

We don't work as hard as the other teams in the Division & we leave our backline exposed

Was impressive to see how much harder Dundee worked off the ball yesterday

I don't see JN or Josh Campbell reaching those standards

[Gordy M]

All the teams from 3-12 can beat each other on any given day. Its been like that for years and will be again. The team that strings a few results together will finish higher up as everyone will take points of each other. Could be anyone, more likely one of us, Hearts or Aberdeen. Hearts won i think 8 on the bounce over Xmas last year and never looked back. Hopefully we get settled and get a few wins over next games.

[GRA]

Each of the last 3 seasons this thread has been raised too eagerly 😕 Far, far too early to tell, let's give the boys time, if still 2nd bottom come 2025 then we can start to get properly concerned, not 3 games into a season, one of which was against the current champions.

[Scotty Leither]

All the teams from 3-12 can beat each other on any given day. It’s gbeen like that for years and will be again. The team that strings a few results together will finish higher up as everyone will take points of each other. Could be anyone, more likely one of us, Hearts or Aberdeen. Hearts won i think 8 on the bounce over Xmas last year and never looked back. Hopefully we get settled and get a few wins over next games.

I genuinely think second spot is up for grabs from Sevco this year and Aberdeen might be a good bet for it. They’ve brought in a decent manager and don’t give many goals away.

Gray’s substitution yesterday and subsequent set up in the last ten-fifteen minutes was naive and reminded me of Montgomery making subs for the sake of it late on and costing us points.

The goalie is a bag of nerves too and I really wonder why we didn’t get an experienced number 1 in there.

If Gray really wanted to show who’s boss he’d be demanding this laddie’s loan is cancelled and money spent on a proven goalie, but that won’t happen because as someone mentioned previously his appointment smacks of a Board of Directors appointing Davey to cover their own *****, rather than bringing in McInnes.

[B.H.F.C]

I genuinely think second spot is up for grabs from Sevco this year and Aberdeen might be a good bet for it. They’ve brought in a decent manager and don’t give many goals away.

Gray’s substitution yesterday and subsequent set up in the last ten-fifteen minutes was naive and reminded me of Montgomery making subs for the sake of it late on and costing us points.

The goalie is a bag of nerves too and I really wonder why we didn’t get an experienced number 1 in there.

If Gray really wanted to show who’s boss he’d be demanding this laddie’s loan is cancelled and money spent on a proven goalie, but that won’t happen because as someone mentioned previously his appointment smacks of a Board of Directors appointing Davey to cover their own *****, rather than bringing in McInnes.

For all the valid criticism, I don’t think the board have appointed Gray to cover themselves. If anything it covers them less because Gray won’t be turned on the way previous managers have been. It’ll be them that get it.

On the goalie, I don’t think any club would bin him after a handful of games and bring in another either. I don’t think he’s good, but we’re not signing another, yet.

[Callum_62]

I genuinely think second spot is up for grabs from Sevco this year and Aberdeen might be a good bet for it. They’ve brought in a decent manager and don’t give many goals away.

Gray’s substitution yesterday and subsequent set up in the last ten-fifteen minutes was naive and reminded me of Montgomery making subs for the sake of it late on and costing us points.

The goalie is a bag of nerves too and I really wonder why we didn’t get an experienced number 1 in there.

If Gray really wanted to show who’s boss he’d be demanding this laddie’s loan is cancelled and money spent on a proven goalie, but that won’t happen because as someone mentioned previously his appointment smacks of a Board of Directors appointing Davey to cover their own *****, rather than bringing in McInnes.Your saying David Gray is a yes man?

Come off it

Gray certainly won't be walked over

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[Scotty Leither]

For all the valid criticism, I don’t think the board have appointed Gray to cover themselves. If anything it covers them less because Gray won’t be turned on the way previous managers have been. It’ll be them that get it.

On the goalie, I don’t think any club would bin him after a handful of games and bring in another either. I don’t think he’s good, but we’re not signing another, yet.

Ruthless clubs would bin the goalie, but then that would reflect badly on the Golden Quads and that won’t be allowed to happen.

[B.H.F.C]

Ruthless clubs would bin the goalie, but then that would reflect badly on the Golden Quads and that won’t be allowed to happen.

Purely hypothetical that. There are plenty dodgy goalies kicking around that don’t get binned after a handful of games.

[He's here!]

Purely hypothetical that. There are plenty dodgy goalies kicking around that don’t get binned after a handful of games.

You have to assume we've seen something in him that makes us feel he's worth throwing in at the deep end for a season under a new manager where getting off to an awful start wasn't a great option. Otherwise a more experienced keeper was surely the safer bet.

[B.H.F.C]

You have to assume we've seen something in him that makes us feel he's worth throwing in at the deep end for a season under a new manager where getting off to an awful start wasn't a great option. Otherwise a more experienced keeper was surely the safer bet.

Aye the last bit is fairly obvious. I don’t think he looks a good keeper.

The bit I disagree with is folk thinking he will be replaced between now and Friday. It’s not happening. And I don’t think that just because of how we are run or anything like that, I don’t think many clubs would do that after so few games.

[JohnM1875]

You have to assume we've seen something in him that makes us feel he's worth throwing in at the deep end for a season under a new manager where getting off to an awful start wasn't a great option. Otherwise a more experienced keeper was surely the safer bet.

Mitov and Will Dennis the two obvious ones. Genuinely surprised we didn’t go for either.

[Scotty Leither]

Mitov and Will Dennis the two obvious ones. Genuinely surprised we didn’t go for either.

…and the frustrating thing is you’ll never get an answer why we didn’t from those running the club. They’ll never be asked it by anyone in the media.

[Callum_62]

…and the frustrating thing is you’ll never get an answer why we didn’t from those running the club. They’ll never be asked it by anyone in the media.Do the media usually ask managers why they didn't sign a player that went to a rival club?

Don't think I've ever heard it?

Also, maybe we did try and mitov rather went to Aberdeen?

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[McD]

Do the media usually ask managers why they didn't sign a player that went to a rival club?

Don't think I've ever heard it?

Also, maybe we did try and mitov rather went to Aberdeen?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk



Wasn’t Naismith asked about them not getting Bowie when we signed him?

[Callum_62]

Wasn’t Naismith asked about them not getting Bowie when we signed him?He asked about the apparent interest

Not why did he not sign him

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[McD]

He asked about the apparent interest

Not why did he not sign him

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Ah, sorry, my mistake :aok:

[Scotty Leither]

Do the media usually ask managers why they didn't sign a player that went to a rival club?

Don't think I've ever heard it?

Also, maybe we did try and mitov rather went to Aberdeen?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Aberdeen paid a fee for Mitov.

We signed two sub standard goalies for nowt when paying a fee for an established goalie would have been the more sensible option. They’ve got a laddie in goals with no presence, poor with the ball and hasn’t made a notable save yet.

We’re too big a club that’s under a lot of scrutiny to make a risky signing that’s going to be allowed to make mistakes in first team games.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t think they’ll be worried in the slightest about feeling the wrath of Foley. They’ll just ignore it and we’ll see more of the same.

The early signs are not good for Gray. I badly want him to do well but I worry about him being in a position he shouldn’t be in.

I’m not convinced that’ll be the case.

I know a lot of people keep going on about Foley only having a minority share etc, but he has plenty leverage on top of that. If he turns round and says ‘I’m not handing over any more money and I’m not sending the best Bournemouth players to Hibs anymore as it’s not in the groups interest to be playing for someone I don’t think should be in the job’ then I’d suggest his ‘minority say’ will quickly become every bit as important to the board as the Gordon’s majority say.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't buy this hung out to dry chat at all

Gray is getting nearly a full team of new players in including potentially breaking our transfer record

There no excuse for Gray, if he can't make us a cohesive unit that's on him

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Applying for the job is on SDG. He chose to apply, so he has to accept responsibility.

I do think the board have seen an opportunity for a bit of a ‘free pass’ though. It’s the only explanation I can think of for them appointing SDG, as it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than they seen the opportunity to appoint someone who the fans might back for absolutely ages.

[He's here!]

Aberdeen paid a fee for Mitov.

We signed two sub standard goalies for nowt when paying a fee for an established goalie would have been the more sensible option. They’ve got a laddie in goals with no presence, poor with the ball and hasn’t made a notable save yet.

We’re too big a club that’s under a lot of scrutiny to make a risky signing that’s going to be allowed to make mistakes in first team games.

I can't believe the thought process was along the lines of 'let's get an inexperienced keeper for nothing rather than pay for someone proven'.

[Scotty Leither]

I can't believe the thought process was along the lines of 'let's get an inexperienced keeper for nothing rather than pay for someone proven'.

We’ve seen this movie before though with all the “project signings”. I can’t fathom it either, unless the Board think they’re smarter than everyone else and Bursik had flew under the radar of other teams, which I severely doubt.

[He's here!]

We’ve seen this movie before though with all the “project signings”. I can’t fathom it either, unless the Board think they’re smarter than everyone else and Bursik had flew under the radar of other teams, which I severely doubt.

Given the decidedly patchy success (and that's being generous) of our signings post-Jack Ross (ie when the Gordon regime assumed control of the process) I also doubt they're capable of spotting an untapped gem. What concerns me is that Mackay must have been at least partly involved in the decision to go with inexperience in a key position. Is he not long enough in the tooth to know where a bit of experience would make sense? The 'project' signings you can at least understand if they're for outfield positions which are already covered by more experienced players. Then you have room to experiment a little. There's no hiding place for a sub-standard keeper who's been signed as first choice. Obviously I hope he turns out be a gem but the early signs aren't encouraging.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Given the decidedly patchy success (and that's being generous) of our signings post-Jack Ross (ie when the Gordon regime assumed control of the process) I also doubt they're capable of spotting an untapped gem. What concerns me is that Mackay must have been at least partly involved in the decision to go with inexperience in a key position. Is he not long enough in the tooth to know where a bit of experience would make sense? The 'project' signings you can at least understand if they're for outfield positions which are already covered by more experienced players. Then you have room to experiment a little. There's no hiding place for a sub-standard keeper who's been signed as first choice. Obviously I hope he turns out be a gem but the early signs aren't encouraging.

there was a fella that commented on the assessment of the first iirc Celtic game and how the keeper had performed. He was a coach and has a son who Is a keeper who has an interest. It was a balanced assessment. I’d be interested in his thoughts now… it’s the most exposed position. Who’d be a goalie indeed. But it’s a key position for us. The importance of that solid foundation can lt be understated. We were blessed with some cracking goalies - Rough, Goram, Leighton. Since then it’s been patchy and we’ve suffered some horrendous keepers of Christmas past [shudder]

[GreenCastle]

Chatting with a few friends today and trying to think of the last time we had a “big” win or even best a team who finished in the top 6 last season ?

It just feels like Hibs haven’t produced a big win for a long time - of course games like yesterday and St Mirren are important but seems the consistency of beating others has been few and far between.

We now have fans accepting a 2-2 draw as a good result after leading 2-1 with only a few mins to go.

The club and its fans need to be aiming higher and on the front foot- not trying to hold on. Do that against a mid table Dundee - can’t imagine putting 5 at the back and sitting in against better players. Luckily we didn’t lose 3-2 (yes I know we nearly won 3-2) but it was a defensive change when midfield or striker coming in would have worked better to crowd middle of the pitch or wide areas.

[B.H.F.C]

Chatting with a few friends today and trying to think of the last time we had a “big” win or even best a team who finished in the top 6 last season ?

It just feels like Hibs haven’t produced a big win for a long time - of course games like yesterday and St Mirren are important but seems the consistency of beating others has been few and far between.

We now have fans accepting a 2-2 draw as a good result after leading 2-1 with only a few mins to go.

The club and its fans need to be aiming higher and on the front foot- not trying to hold on. Do that against a mid table Dundee - can’t imagine putting 5 at the back and sitting in against better players. Luckily we didn’t lose 3-2 (yes I know we nearly won 3-2) but it was a defensive change when midfield or striker coming in would have worked better to crowd middle of the pitch or wide areas.

Against the teams in the top six last season, neither Kilmarnock or Dundee actually beat us. St Mirren took three goals off us a couple of times so no change their going in to this season.

Should have won at least one of the derbies last year, didn’t which was hardly surprising.

You hear Gray or McKay speaking about standards all the time but they are pretty non existent on the park at the moment which is why expectations are at an all time low.

[NAE NOOKIE]

For all that we have had a poor start only Aberdeen have opened anything like a significant gap on us and two of their games have been at home to teams who played in Europe during that week .... as it stands we are only 4 points behind Dundee in 4th place which is nothing at this early stage.

Our next game is away to Killie who have had a worse start than us, you would expect Aberdeen ( Ross County away ) and Hearts ( Dundee Utd home ) to win their games, but if we can get a win at Rugby park before the break it will make a difference in that we will still only be at worst 4 points behind whoever is in 4th.

Yes we need to improve, but if we can get Kwon and Bowie up to speed, sign McCowan ( or similar ) and the defence can screw the nut* IMO it is entirely possible that we could get better, and we still have Youan and Hoilett to come back as well.

* O'Hora, Ekpiteta and Obita are all experienced players, hell even Miller has two seasons behind him, albeit hampered by injury, is it too much to hope that they could gel and become an at least competent defence.

[blackpoolhibs]

Had the keeper played much football before signing for us, as i thought he had not but could be wrong?:confused:

[He's here!]

Had the keeper played much football before signing for us, as i thought he had not but could be wrong?:confused:

Made 50 appearances for Stoke plus a smattering of games on loan so not without experience.

[cubehindthegoal]

Glad it’s not just me that thinks it’s ridiculous.

Yup.

Think someone said “three games in” (sorry playing catch up as ever here), and that’s it in a nutshell. If you do have a DeLorean and have checked next May out, then fair play. But seriously … three games in and first transfer window not yet over …

… the answer to this thread question was a simple yes, if you apply it to this season.

[Cooshed Kid]

Ahh, I thought it was ravioli.

This is why I read these pages. Chapeau, Sloop.

[blackpoolhibs]

Made 50 appearances for Stoke plus a smattering of games on loan so not without experience.

Sorry HH i was meaning recently, i knew he'd played for Stoke with some poor reviews, but he'd gone on loan somewhere abroad and i wondered if he'd actually played much for them?

[Cooshed Kid]

I hope Bursik will prove all doubters wrong. He's not had a brilliant start but things can get much better.

But was it only 3 or 4 years ago we had Marciano and Bogdan? And now, with the BK on board we have inexperienced Bursik on loan and Smith, who frankly is a bit small for a keeper. For a team aspiring to qualify for Europe it doesn't make a lot of sense not to have a Marciano or Bogdan quality of keeper.

[One Day Soon]

I can't believe the thought process was along the lines of 'let's get an inexperienced keeper for nothing rather than pay for someone proven'.

Why not? We brought in huge chunks of money and we largely appear to not be spending it on signings.

[Cooshed Kid]

Why not? We brought in huge chunks of money and we largely appear to not be spending it on signings.

The other odd thing for me about the keeper situation is that our keeper is a loanee. If we qualify for Europe he will return to his club and we will need to find a new number one and get him familiar with his defence before the European games commence. Does that seem sound?

[allezsauzee]

The other odd thing for me about the keeper situation is that our keeper is a loanee. If we qualify for Europe he will return to his club and we will need to find a new number one and get him familiar with his defence before the European games commence. Does that seem sound?

It's good to see at least one poster remaining optimistic :greengrin

[Bronson]

As it stands we are in relegation trouble. St Johnstone, County, Dundee Utd and arguably Motherwell are worse than us on paper but I would argue we are softer and more gutless than all of them.

A CB and 2 CMs needed to get out of danger imo. And that's the bare minimum.

Maybe I'm a drama queen but I share the OP's sentiment.

[Hibernian Verse]

As it stands we are in relegation trouble. St Johnstone, County, Dundee Utd and arguably Motherwell are worse than us on paper but I would argue we are softer and more gutless than all of them.

A CB and 2 CMs needed to get out of danger imo. And that's the bare minimum.

Maybe I'm a drama queen but I share the OP's sentiment.

No one is in relegation trouble after 3 games.

[MWHIBBIES]

No one is in relegation trouble after 3 games.

Correct.

[Bobby's Cinema]

As it stands we are in relegation trouble. St Johnstone, County, Dundee Utd and arguably Motherwell are worse than us on paper but I would argue we are softer and more gutless than all of them.

A CB and 2 CMs needed to get out of danger imo. And that's the bare minimum.

Maybe I'm a drama queen but I share the OP's sentiment.
Don't see how we can say that without lining up against any of them yet this season.

There is already evidence from every one of our league goals this season that we have quality players that can grab us something out of nothing. That's something teams that get relegated can't normally count on.

I think we are only going to improve with more time together with the new signings. And with that I hope we will get evidence of improvement in our general play, and plan to get forward and create chances and control the ball in the oppositions half for periods in games.

[Since452]

We look in relegation trouble as much as say Aberdeen look good for top six or Celtic look certs for the title. It isn't too early to form an opinion. We need to improve massively. The first half on Saturday was absolutely honking as was the pitiful way we couldn't hold out for 3 points. Teams get relegated because of things like that.

[Cooshed Kid]

We only need to be capable of doing 2 things well. Being next to impossible to score against and scoring one more goal than the opposition. It's not actually a tough ask. It's not like saying we want to win games by playing free-flowing, attractive football and score 5 or 6 goals every week. It's not about art but about science.

But to achieve that I'd start off by signing a really good keeper at least 28 years old used to marshalling his defence. Our defence is papier-mache and inexperienced. Put a keeper like Bogdan behind it and it can toughen up considerably.

[He's here!]

We only need to be capable of doing 2 things well. Being next to impossible to score against and scoring one more goal than the opposition. It's not actually a tough ask. It's not like saying we want to win games by playing free-flowing, attractive football and score 5 or 6 goals every week. It's not about art but about science.

But to achieve that I'd start off by signing a really good keeper at least 28 years old used to marshalling his defence. Our defence is papier-mache and inexperienced. Put a keeper like Bogdan behind it and it can toughen up considerably.

Bogdan...I remember liking him. Did we not get him back for a second spell but didn't play him? Possibly sustained an injury?

What's he up to these days?

[greenlex]

Bogdan...I remember liking him. Did we not get him back for a second spell but didn't play him? Possibly sustained an injury?

What's he up to these days?
Retired

[Gordy M]

We look in relegation trouble as much as say Aberdeen look good for top six or Celtic look certs for the title. It isn't too early to form an opinion. We need to improve massively. The first half on Saturday was absolutely honking as was the pitiful way we couldn't hold out for 3 points. Teams get relegated because of things like that.
So Hearts are in relegation trouble as well then? Based on form they are almost certs to go down. One draw this season....no wins?

[He's here!]

No one is in relegation trouble after 3 games.

True, but should we lose at Killie and go bottom it's an issue which at least comes to mind.

Quite a lot riding on this game even at such an early stage. If we can show signs of putting together that spell of better form we showed in the second half against Dundee it will lift spirits. Repeat the first half performance (which, bar Boyle's goal, was dreadful) and the game could be dead and buried. I'm always a bit wary of that Rugby Park pitch...or has it finally replaced?! I know there was talk of it.

[He's here!]

Retired

He's listed as a free agent after leaving Ferencvaros in June. I maybe missed that he'd subsequently retired.

I'd have been happy to see him back if he was still available.

[Cooshed Kid]

Retired

Not retired according to transfermarkt. Just without a club. Great keeper when up to speed.

[Bronson]

Don't see how we can say that without lining up against any of them yet this season.

There is already evidence from every one of our league goals this season that we have quality players that can grab us something out of nothing. That's something teams that get relegated can't normally count on.

I think we are only going to improve with more time together with the new signings. And with that I hope we will get evidence of improvement in our general play, and plan to get forward and create chances and control the ball in the oppositions half for periods in games.

You can tell from watching us play we are in trouble. Defence and goalie are calamitous, midfield is so slow and a complete soft touch and I can't see what style we are trying to play. Total recipe for relegation if we don't address the glaring problems before the end of the window.

I'm sure hearts thought they had too many good individuals to go down in 2020 and down they went. Arguably Dundee Utd thought the same back in 2016.

With respect to Dundee and St Mirren, anyone who is outplayed by both of them should be worried about the trap door.

[HoboHarry]

We only need to be capable of doing 2 things well. Being next to impossible to score against and scoring one more goal than the opposition. It's not actually a tough ask. It's not like saying we want to win games by playing free-flowing, attractive football and score 5 or 6 goals every week. It's not about art but about science.

But to achieve that I'd start off by signing a really good keeper at least 28 years old used to marshalling his defence. Our defence is papier-mache and inexperienced. Put a keeper like Bogdan behind it and it can toughen up considerably.
Bogdan did well for us but just like our present keeper is taking pelters for, Bogdan was pretty wobbly in the first couple of games I seem to recall.

[Cooshed Kid]

Bogdan did well for us but just like our present keeper is taking pelters for, Bogdan was pretty wobbly in the first couple of games I seem to recall.

You are correct. Bogdan came good later and would probably have kept Marciano out of the side if it wasn't for his concussions. So, it's too early to give up on Bursik. But, it doesn't alter the fact he is just a loanee and in less than a year's time we'll need to sign someone else. The keeper should always be a "permanent" signing in my book because it's a key, maybe even the key position.

[blackpoolhibs]

You are correct. Bogdan came good later and would probably have kept Marciano out of the side if it wasn't for his concussions. So, it's too early to give up on Bursik. But, it doesn't alter the fact he is just a loanee and in less than a year's time we'll need to sign someone else. The keeper should always be a "permanent" signing in my book because it's a key, maybe even the key position.

Maybe Bursik has concussion?

[BoomtownHibees]

We only need to be capable of doing 2 things well. Being next to impossible to score against and scoring one more goal than the opposition. It's not actually a tough ask

Simple. No idea how we aren’t winning the league every year

[Allant1981]

Are folk seriously talking about relegation already, far to early to be thinking about any team being relegated, a couple of wins in this league and you move half way up the table

[Since452]

Are folk seriously talking about relegation already, far to early to be thinking about any team being relegated, a couple of wins in this league and you move half way up the table

The too early to talk about it thing is a comfort blanket. Discounting the Celtic games we were all over the shop at St Mirren and snatched a draw from the hands of victory at home to Dundee through mistake/bad tactics. It's difficult to see where a win is going to come from doing things like that. Ross County look crap as well. Is it too early to say they could be relegated? Hearts and Killie have had or have Europe so you'd expect them to pick up somewhat. We have a keeper that looks miles off it and a defence that looks like they're playing a level way too high for them. We need to improve massively.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The too early to talk about it thing is a comfort blanket. Discounting the Celtic games we were all over the shop at St Mirren and snatched a draw from the hands of victory at home to Dundee through mistake/bad tactics. It's difficult to see where a win is going to come from doing things like that. Ross County look crap as well. Is it too early to say they could be relegated? Hearts and Killie have had or have Europe so you'd expect them to pick up somewhat. We have a keeper that looks miles off it and a defence that looks like they're playing a level way too high for them. We need to improve massively.

:agree:

We’re not in imminent danger because there’s so long to go. Nobody is.

On current evidence though, we have all the hallmarks of a team that could be down there. Dodgy goalkeeper, dodgy defenders, throwing away comical goals, a midfield where nobody really excels at anything.

[Gordy M]

The too early to talk about it thing is a comfort blanket. Discounting the Celtic games we were all over the shop at St Mirren and snatched a draw from the hands of victory at home to Dundee through mistake/bad tactics. It's difficult to see where a win is going to come from doing things like that. Ross County look crap as well. Is it too early to say they could be relegated? Hearts and Killie have had or have Europe so you'd expect them to pick up somewhat. We have a keeper that looks miles off it and a defence that looks like they're playing a level way too high for them. We need to improve massively.

Hearts have one draw this season.....they have only played one game in Europe so im not sure you can put it down to that so far. Killie have won something like 5 games on grass in the last 2 and a bit seasons. They have been saved by that awful pitch. Why are we in a worse position than them at this time?

[Springbank]

Are folk seriously talking about relegation already, far to early to be thinking about any team being relegated, a couple of wins in this league and you move half way up the table

After this weekend passes though you are stuck with the squad you have until January

And after the January window you only have 9 games til the split

So this week is the critical week for "taking your view" on whether our squad is at the required level for the majority of the season

If they're not at the level, and we don't rectify it, you're looking at the majority of the season with these guys - and that's why this week is exactly the week to be asking "are these guys good enough to avoid relegation"?

[He's here!]

After this weekend passes though you are stuck with the squad you have until January

And after the January window you only have 9 games til the split

So this week is the critical week for "taking your view" on whether our squad is at the required level for the majority of the season

If they're not at the level, and we don't rectify it, you're looking at the majority of the season with these guys - and that's why this week is exactly the week to be asking "are these guys good enough to avoid relegation"?

So, with Triantis the only addition since this was posted, do we feel the squad is at the required level for the majority of the season?

[judas]

My view is that - despite the presence of other poor teams - Hibs will be in the bottom two this season.

The signing of Iredale and Triantis seals it for me.

Relegation players added to relegation level squad.

[Waxy]

My view is that - despite the presence of other poor teams - Hibs will be in the bottom two this season.

The signing of Iredale and Triantis seals it for me.

Relegation players added to relegation level squad.

You’ve been up all night. Its time you went to bed.

[Steve20]

We are not going to finish bottom two. Think St Johnstone and Ross County will be a bit behind the rest of the league.

But we are definitely bottom six.

[Carheenlea]

We are not going to finish bottom two. Think St Johnstone and Ross County will be a bit behind the rest of the league.

But we are definitely bottom six.

As bad as things are looking right now, there is some consolation at least that we shouldn’t be as bad as those two clubs.

[Spike Mandela]

I know it's too early to judge the new signings and being rational I should give the squad time to gel but my inner irrational critic is screaming at me about them being 'mediocre at best'.

My concerns were raised when we signed a young inexperienced goalie as our number one. Surprised SDG went along with that in his first managerial role.

Then MacKay started making signings proclaiming them leaders and men of character, that sounded promising, until we lost to Kelty Hearts. The signings appear to have a good physicality about them, nae wee guys, but it gives me the feeling that MacKay has turned us into...well, err Ross County.

The signings are so beige I'm surprised the new third strip isn't magnolia:greengrin

We might not get relegated but it's going to be a difficult season with injuries to key players perhaps making it more nervy than it needs to be.

[jakedance]

I’m not feeling very hopeful for this season but I don’t see us getting relegated. I see us most likely finishing in 7th or 8th mediocrity. We need to remember we scored a decent amount of goals last season and it wouldn’t take a huge improvement to our defence to go from dropping points in the last few minutes to keeping them and squeezing into the top 6.

Most likely 7 - 9th
Potentially 5th or 6th
Unlikely 4th or 10th
Very unlikely 3rd or relegation