Jerry Sadowitz

[judas]

I see his second show was cancelled due to it’s content last night.

Anyone here seen him?

If so, what’s the deal?

[speedy_gonzales]

By all accounts he laid in to Rishi Sunak on Fridays show, rather than going for the relatively low hanging jokes based on his height, or even his political leanings, he went for the uber lazy attack on his colour/heritage and how "those" people are running this country.

[He's here!]

Already being discussed on the 'time of year' thread further down.

[hibby rae]

By all accounts he laid in to Rishi Sunak on Fridays show, rather than going for the relatively low hanging jokes based on his height, or even his political leanings, he went for the uber lazy attack on his colour/heritage and how "those" people are running this country.

I was under the impression he did it in the context of stating that's what Conservative party members think about Sunak?

[judas]

Already being discussed on the 'time of year' thread further down.

Apologies. Mods please delete thread. I’ll go to the other one 👍

[DH1875]

I was under the impression he did it in the context of stating that's what Conservative party members think about Sunak?

He is supposed to have used the P word though and said a few other controversial things and got his knob out on stage.

[degenerated]

He is supposed to have used the P word though and said a few other controversial things and got his knob out on stage.I wasn't there but I believe he was challenging the perceived views of the people that are electing the next PM. I've seen him do the same before with stuff about sections of American society and their views on black people.

He has also got his walloper out on stage previously and it hasn't been an issue. I'm surprised that either the venue or the attendees are surprised by either of these things.

[Moulin Yarns]

He isn't who I would choose to see, but I think he has a point about the pleasance knowing what he is like.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62546551


You don't book an act for a 600 seat venue on a whim.

[hibby rae]

I wasn't there but I believe he was challenging the perceived views of the people that are electing the next PM. I've seen him do the same before with stuff about sections of American society and their views on black people.

He has also got his walloper out on stage previously and it hasn't been an issue. I'm surprised that either the venue or the attendees are surprised by either of these things.

That was my understanding, he wasn't going down a Jim Davidson route but making a point about discriminatory views of others.

[hibby rae]

He isn't who I would choose to see, but I think he has a point about the pleasance knowing what he is like.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62546551


You don't book an act for a 600 seat venue on a whim.

It's possible Sadowitz booked the venue himself, Pleasance operates both ways.

I know the BBC article says Pleasance booked him, bit their actual statement doesn't say that.

[Colr]

I was under the impression he did it in the context of stating that's what Conservative party members think about Sunak?

Which is reinforced by the 5th most popular reason that members give for voting Truss - that she’s white and English!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/13/poll-of-tory-members-gives-liz-truss-22-point-lead-to-be-next-prime-minister

[bigwheel]

It's possible Sadowitz booked the venue himself, Pleasance operates both ways.

I know the BBC article says Pleasance booked him, bit their actual statement doesn't say that.

He’s a 30 year fringe veteran isn’t he - so find it hard to comprehend any venue who wouldn’t know the tone of his act when agreeing to host his show.

[Pretty Boy]

I've commented on the other thread about this but it's probably more appropriate to discuss the merits of Jerry Sadowitz on here rather than clog up a more generic Fringe thread.

I have been to see him once and it was an evening that was both very funny but also excruciatingly uncomfortable. His shows absolutely require context because without it individual actions and lines can look horrendous. The night I went he had a table full of hats at the back of the stage. He started by saying 'when I put a hat on I'm a character and when a character speaks that's not me'. Everyone was immediately nervous as they knew something bad was coming. He then went to the table and selected a hat. 'Now remember whatever comes next is a character speaking and nothing to do with me'. Increasing tension from the audience as they wonder what comes next. He then walked to the front of the stage in an SS hat and said 'so what are we going to do about those Jews?' A quick perusal of Twitter suggests that is a central part of his repertoire.

I think that is quite a clever and nuanced joke on a number of levels. It's worth remembering Sadowitz was raised in a Jewish family. It absolutely won't be for everyone and if a tabloid headline read 'comedian makes despicable holocaust gag' then it would read shockingly without the context. From what i understand his 'paki' joke about Rishi Sunak was along broadly similar lines. He was playing the character of a stereotypical Tory party member and their views on Sunak. It wasn't lowest common denominator 'Sunak is a brown person' comedy.

I doubt I would go and see him again. It was very intense and despite the fact I found much of his material clever, I was very uncomfortable. Sadowitz makes it no secret that is what he sets out to do. He hates everyone, including himself, and almost no group is safe from his ire.

I refuse to believe dozens of people could go and see him unwittingly and expect to be anything other than shocked. He's a well known comedian, his act is infamous and he's very much respected among other stand ups for his mastery of the craft. As I said on the other thread to go and see him should see you appalled by everything he says, not only a single joke. A few years back I went to see Jim Davidson at the Fringe. I didn't really want to but someone offered me a ticket at short notice and I was out anyway so off I went. His show was surprisingly touching in parts as he discussed the impact the, ultimately unproven, allegations of sexual abuse had on his life. However there were other things he said that I didn't like, largely because they punched down and were said without a hint of irony. I knew what I was getting when I went to see Davidson though so I didn't laugh at what I didn't like and wouldn't go and see him again. The idea that I should complain and have him removed from the venue moving forward never entered my head. I knew what he was like, I put myself in that position.

Comedy has to be almost without boundaries. Of course no one has to like or laugh at absolutely everything but I don't see how demanding people are no platformed or setting limits on comedy, particularly character based comedy, is productive. If you don't like something don't watch it and don't pay to see it. Ricky Gervais has openly said The Office wouldn't get made today. He's not bitter about it, he's too big to have to be. Likewise I've seen The Inbetweeners panned for being misogynistic and sexist. That misses the point. Yes there is language that is both of those things but the joke is on the core group of characters, their ignorance and inability to see women as anything other than sexual objects is the cause of their repeated disasters. I've even seen the bland, beige, dull but inexplicably popular Friends retrospectively critiqued as being homophobic and transphobic. Firstly it was a show first made 30 years ago, secondly it hasn't been hidden in a vault all that time, thirdly some people are transphobic and homophobic. To have comedies populated by vanilla characters who are all perfect and never display even a hint of prejudice is to lose all grip on reality.

[lapsedhibee]

I've commented on the other thread about this but it's probably more appropriate to discuss the merits of Jerry Sadowitz on here rather than clog up a more generic Fringe thread.

I have been to see him once and it was an evening that was both very funny but also excruciatingly uncomfortable. His shows absolutely require context because without it individual actions and lines can look horrendous. The night I went he had a table full of hats at the back of the stage. He started by saying 'when I put a hat on I'm a character and when a character speaks that's not me'. Everyone was immediately nervous as they knew something bad was coming. He then went to the table and selected a hat. 'Now remember whatever comes next is a character speaking and nothing to do with me'. Increasing tension from the audience as they wonder what comes next. He then walked to the front of the stage in an SS hat and said 'so what are we going to do about those Jews?' A quick perusal of Twitter suggests that is a central part of his repertoire.

I think that is quite a clever and nuanced joke on a number of levels. It's worth remembering Sadowitz was raised in a Jewish family. It absolutely won't be for everyone and if a tabloid headline read 'comedian makes despicable holocaust gag' then it would read shockingly without the context. From what i understand his 'paki' joke about Rishi Sunak was along broadly similar lines. He was playing the character of a stereotypical Tory party member and their views on Sunak. It wasn't lowest common denominator 'Sunak is a brown person' comedy.

I doubt I would go and see him again. It was very intense and despite the fact I found much of his material clever, I was very uncomfortable. Sadowitz makes it no secret that is what he sets out to do. He hates everyone, including himself, and almost no group is safe from his ire.

I refuse to believe dozens of people could go and see him unwittingly and expect to be anything other than shocked. He's a well known comedian, his act is infamous and he's very much respected among other stand ups for his mastery of the craft. As I said on the other thread to go and see him should see you appalled by everything he says, not only a single joke. A few years back I went to see Jim Davidson at the Fringe. I didn't really want to but someone offered me a ticket at short notice and I was out anyway so off I went. His show was surprisingly touching in parts as he discussed the impact the, ultimately unproven, allegations of sexual abuse had on his life. However there were other things he said that I didn't like, largely because they punched down and were said without a hint of irony. I knew what I was getting when I went to see Davidson though so I didn't laugh at what I didn't like and wouldn't go and see him again. The idea that I should complain and have him removed from the venue moving forward never entered my head. I knew what he was like, I put myself in that position.

Comedy has to be almost without boundaries. Of course no one has to like or laugh at absolutely everything but I don't see how demanding people are no platformed or setting limits on comedy, particularly character based comedy, is productive. If you don't like something don't watch it and don't pay to see it. Ricky Gervais has openly said The Office wouldn't get made today. He's not bitter about it, he's too big to have to be. Likewise I've seen The Inbetweeners panned for being misogynistic and sexist. That misses the point. Yes there is language that is both of those things but the joke is on the core group of characters, their ignorance and inability to see women as anything other than sexual objects is the cause of their repeated disasters. I've even seen the bland, beige, dull but inexplicably popular Friends retrospectively critiqued as being homophobic and transphobic. Firstly it was a show first made 30 years ago, secondly it hasn't been hidden in a vault all that time, thirdly some people are transphobic and homophobic. To have comedies populated by vanilla characters who are all perfect and never display even a hint of prejudice is to lose all grip on reality.

There are people walking the earth, loose, who will say that using the word Paki, even in a discussion about whether it is acceptable to use the word Paki, is racist. There is no hope for them, and they should not be allowed out to The Fringe.

[hibby rae]

He’s a 30 year fringe veteran isn’t he - so find it hard to comprehend any venue who wouldn’t know the tone of his act when agreeing to host his show.

Depends who it is on that team doing that job. Most staff will be temporary, probably coming from elsewhere and might be at the start of their arts careers.

He's been performing at the Fringe a long time, but so have a lot of others and I might be familiar with names but not who they are/what they do, and I've been experiencing it my entire life, especially given the scale of it. So it's not unreasonable to assume someone new to it might not know?

[bigwheel]

Depends who it is on that team doing that job. Most staff will be temporary, probably coming from elsewhere and might be at the start of their arts careers.

He's been performing at the Fringe a long time, but so have a lot of others and I might be familiar with names but not who they are/what they do, and I've been experiencing it my entire life, especially given the scale of it. So it's not unreasonable to assume someone new to it might not know?

There will be lots of people involved in finalising their schedule for the fringe ..would be surprised if they were all newbies ..Sadowitz is a well know figure on the fringe .

You could be right , but much more likely they’ve had a change of heart after complaints ..

[hibby rae]

There will be lots of people involved in finalising their schedule for the fringe ..would be surprised if they were all newbies ..Sadowitz is a well know figure on the fringe .

You could be right , but much more likely they’ve had a change of heart after complaints ..

He's fairly well known, but mostly to locals who'll have been going for a while.

Most folk I know though working at the Fringe probably wouldn't be aware of him if I mentioned him and these will be people who have worked at least 2 or 3 Fringes (well they will now of course!).

The actual size of Pleasance office staff isn't that big. Maybe 10 at most permanent, covering all aspects of running a temporary Fringe venue and a permanent one in Islington, and then they'll get some temps in for a couple months or so at most.

[He's here!]

He’s a 30 year fringe veteran isn’t he - so find it hard to comprehend any venue who wouldn’t know the tone of his act when agreeing to host his show.

A couple of my work colleagues were at the Friday show and enjoyed it. Said circa 25 people left but the vast majority (including them) knew what to expect from a Sadowitz show and they were genuinely surprised to hear Saturday had been cancelled.

[hibsbollah]

I've commented on the other thread about this but it's probably more appropriate to discuss the merits of Jerry Sadowitz on here rather than clog up a more generic Fringe thread.

I have been to see him once and it was an evening that was both very funny but also excruciatingly uncomfortable. His shows absolutely require context because without it individual actions and lines can look horrendous. The night I went he had a table full of hats at the back of the stage. He started by saying 'when I put a hat on I'm a character and when a character speaks that's not me'. Everyone was immediately nervous as they knew something bad was coming. He then went to the table and selected a hat. 'Now remember whatever comes next is a character speaking and nothing to do with me'. Increasing tension from the audience as they wonder what comes next. He then walked to the front of the stage in an SS hat and said 'so what are we going to do about those Jews?' A quick perusal of Twitter suggests that is a central part of his repertoire.

I think that is quite a clever and nuanced joke on a number of levels. It's worth remembering Sadowitz was raised in a Jewish family. It absolutely won't be for everyone and if a tabloid headline read 'comedian makes despicable holocaust gag' then it would read shockingly without the context. From what i understand his 'paki' joke about Rishi Sunak was along broadly similar lines. He was playing the character of a stereotypical Tory party member and their views on Sunak. It wasn't lowest common denominator 'Sunak is a brown person' comedy.

I doubt I would go and see him again. It was very intense and despite the fact I found much of his material clever, I was very uncomfortable. Sadowitz makes it no secret that is what he sets out to do. He hates everyone, including himself, and almost no group is safe from his ire.

I refuse to believe dozens of people could go and see him unwittingly and expect to be anything other than shocked. He's a well known comedian, his act is infamous and he's very much respected among other stand ups for his mastery of the craft. As I said on the other thread to go and see him should see you appalled by everything he says, not only a single joke. A few years back I went to see Jim Davidson at the Fringe. I didn't really want to but someone offered me a ticket at short notice and I was out anyway so off I went. His show was surprisingly touching in parts as he discussed the impact the, ultimately unproven, allegations of sexual abuse had on his life. However there were other things he said that I didn't like, largely because they punched down and were said without a hint of irony. I knew what I was getting when I went to see Davidson though so I didn't laugh at what I didn't like and wouldn't go and see him again. The idea that I should complain and have him removed from the venue moving forward never entered my head. I knew what he was like, I put myself in that position.

Comedy has to be almost without boundaries. Of course no one has to like or laugh at absolutely everything but I don't see how demanding people are no platformed or setting limits on comedy, particularly character based comedy, is productive. If you don't like something don't watch it and don't pay to see it. Ricky Gervais has openly said The Office wouldn't get made today. He's not bitter about it, he's too big to have to be. Likewise I've seen The Inbetweeners panned for being misogynistic and sexist. That misses the point. Yes there is language that is both of those things but the joke is on the core group of characters, their ignorance and inability to see women as anything other than sexual objects is the cause of their repeated disasters. I've even seen the bland, beige, dull but inexplicably popular Friends retrospectively critiqued as being homophobic and transphobic. Firstly it was a show first made 30 years ago, secondly it hasn't been hidden in a vault all that time, thirdly some people are transphobic and homophobic. To have comedies populated by vanilla characters who are all perfect and never display even a hint of prejudice is to lose all grip on reality.

Good post.

Separately, I wasn’t aware there were actual sexual abuse allegations against The Jim Davison creature. A member of my family told me she was groped by him repeatedly when she was a young waitress, I would absolutely love to hear what he’d have to say to her now. Especially as he’s now seemingly making a career out of speaking about how ‘wronged’ he’s been.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62546551

The way this is developing I think it may work in Sadowitz's favour and give his career/ticket sales a boost.

The Pleasance are looking increasingly foolish IMHO.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1513095484633755648?s=20&t=b8wLsVXjZ3Wx6tChxqFWoQ

@theJeremyVine
Re Savile — remarkably this was 1987, comedian Jerry Sadowitz. Every single word. Incredible

[Kato]

https://mobile.twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1513095484633755648?s=20&t=b8wLsVXjZ3Wx6tChxqFWoQ

@theJeremyVine
Re Savile — remarkably this was 1987, comedian Jerry Sadowitz. Every single word. IncrediblePeople on that thread still talking about Lydon's comments. They weren't broadcast at the time and Lydon was never "banned".

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Steve-O]

That was my understanding, he wasn't going down a Jim Davidson route but making a point about discriminatory views of others.

Correct. Sorry, anyone out there with a clue about Sadowitz’s act knows he is not out there doing truly racist material that he actually believes in.

A whoosh moment for a small number in the audience and the f-ing staff that complained. Young naive people who just didn’t ‘get it’ is the issue here. They’ve seen an old guy on stage shouting “p**i” and made an assumption based on their own little superior view of the world.

[Steve-O]

Depends who it is on that team doing that job. Most staff will be temporary, probably coming from elsewhere and might be at the start of their arts careers.

He's been performing at the Fringe a long time, but so have a lot of others and I might be familiar with names but not who they are/what they do, and I've been experiencing it my entire life, especially given the scale of it. So it's not unreasonable to assume someone new to it might not know?

Yes it is unreasonable because a chimpanzee could find such information in about 3 seconds online.

[hibsbollah]

Yes it is unreasonable because a chimpanzee could find such information in about 3 seconds online.

There's also the possibility that the complainers knew JS was intending to use the racist term to mock the racist, not to be racist, but the use of the term in itself, regardless of intention was deemed offensive.

I get this sometimes at home, I might use the N word or the P word in reported speech, ie-to imply something that's going on in a 3rd party's head, and my children will shriek at me that 'I cant say that'. Its purely a generational thing, the word has become as taboo as the action, or more so sometimes, which seems crazy to me; when i was younger a film like Mississippi Burning would be full of racist portrayals, racist language but everyone knew the movie's intention was to make an anti-racist piece of work, so the use of that language was rightly in my view, considered acceptable. There was also racist terms rampant in mafia movies, even when race wasnt relevant to the story. Dennis Hopper's brilliant speech to Christopher Walken in True Romance before he killed him would never see the screen now. Nowadays, the N word can be used on occasion, in context but its much more carefully applied, and by a white man to a black man out of context, almost never in Hollywood.

[lapsedhibee]

I get this sometimes at home, I might use the N word or the P word in reported speech, ie-to imply something that's going on in a 3rd party's head, and my children will shriek at me that 'I cant say that'. Its purely a generational thing, the word has become as taboo as the action, or more so sometimes, which seems crazy to me.

It is crazy.

[He's here!]

Yes it is unreasonable because a chimpanzee could find such information in about 3 seconds online.

I think Sadowitz is fiercely guarded about allowing his material to appear on YouTube so footage may not be that easy to find. I do think most folk attending his show would have a reasonable idea about what to expect tho.

[hibby rae]

Yes it is unreasonable because a chimpanzee could find such information in about 3 seconds online.

Well that's a slight exaggeration haha, you have to be aware of the sheer number of shows in a tight timeframe they will be handling, and it will take time to vet 100%.

It's not like they're going to sit down and watch his stuff to make sure, they'd be doing that with everyone.

[Steve-O]

Well that's a slight exaggeration haha, you have to be aware of the sheer number of shows in a tight timeframe they will be handling, and it will take time to vet 100%.

It's not like they're going to sit down and watch his stuff to make sure, they'd be doing that with everyone.

You could get a pretty good idea of his material pretty easily without watching or listening to any of it.

They’d also see he’s played the festival for at least two decades, apparently without issue!

[Kato]

Only seen him once, 80's. He used "p*ki" word and a girl in the audience, obviously Scottish/Pakistani started arguing with him. He got her up on stage and they both discussed the word back and forth, can't remember the detail but she went from being visibly pissed off to getting the joke. He then used her in a trick, which involved a prop of mechanical penguins climbing up a plastic mountain or something, - amazed everybody including her. He then said get back in the crowd "ya p*ki *********", which had everyone in stitches, including her. Some kind of messed up genius there.

Very much the Lenny Bruce school although he was waay more confrontational but went further and explained what he was up to, and he was a sh*t magician.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[judas]

I've commented on the other thread about this but it's probably more appropriate to discuss the merits of Jerry Sadowitz on here rather than clog up a more generic Fringe thread.

I have been to see him once and it was an evening that was both very funny but also excruciatingly uncomfortable. His shows absolutely require context because without it individual actions and lines can look horrendous. The night I went he had a table full of hats at the back of the stage. He started by saying 'when I put a hat on I'm a character and when a character speaks that's not me'. Everyone was immediately nervous as they knew something bad was coming. He then went to the table and selected a hat. 'Now remember whatever comes next is a character speaking and nothing to do with me'. Increasing tension from the audience as they wonder what comes next. He then walked to the front of the stage in an SS hat and said 'so what are we going to do about those Jews?' A quick perusal of Twitter suggests that is a central part of his repertoire.

I think that is quite a clever and nuanced joke on a number of levels. It's worth remembering Sadowitz was raised in a Jewish family. It absolutely won't be for everyone and if a tabloid headline read 'comedian makes despicable holocaust gag' then it would read shockingly without the context. From what i understand his 'paki' joke about Rishi Sunak was along broadly similar lines. He was playing the character of a stereotypical Tory party member and their views on Sunak. It wasn't lowest common denominator 'Sunak is a brown person' comedy.

I doubt I would go and see him again. It was very intense and despite the fact I found much of his material clever, I was very uncomfortable. Sadowitz makes it no secret that is what he sets out to do. He hates everyone, including himself, and almost no group is safe from his ire.

I refuse to believe dozens of people could go and see him unwittingly and expect to be anything other than shocked. He's a well known comedian, his act is infamous and he's very much respected among other stand ups for his mastery of the craft. As I said on the other thread to go and see him should see you appalled by everything he says, not only a single joke. A few years back I went to see Jim Davidson at the Fringe. I didn't really want to but someone offered me a ticket at short notice and I was out anyway so off I went. His show was surprisingly touching in parts as he discussed the impact the, ultimately unproven, allegations of sexual abuse had on his life. However there were other things he said that I didn't like, largely because they punched down and were said without a hint of irony. I knew what I was getting when I went to see Davidson though so I didn't laugh at what I didn't like and wouldn't go and see him again. The idea that I should complain and have him removed from the venue moving forward never entered my head. I knew what he was like, I put myself in that position.

Comedy has to be almost without boundaries. Of course no one has to like or laugh at absolutely everything but I don't see how demanding people are no platformed or setting limits on comedy, particularly character based comedy, is productive. If you don't like something don't watch it and don't pay to see it. Ricky Gervais has openly said The Office wouldn't get made today. He's not bitter about it, he's too big to have to be. Likewise I've seen The Inbetweeners panned for being misogynistic and sexist. That misses the point. Yes there is language that is both of those things but the joke is on the core group of characters, their ignorance and inability to see women as anything other than sexual objects is the cause of their repeated disasters. I've even seen the bland, beige, dull but inexplicably popular Friends retrospectively critiqued as being homophobic and transphobic. Firstly it was a show first made 30 years ago, secondly it hasn't been hidden in a vault all that time, thirdly some people are transphobic and homophobic. To have comedies populated by vanilla characters who are all perfect and never display even a hint of prejudice is to lose all grip on reality.

Excellent post and thanks for it 👍