View Full Version : Cabraja own goal and Shankland red card?
McGruber
08-08-2022, 07:05 AM
Being pedantic here but...
Cabraja plays the ball - it doesn't hit off him and wasn't a deflection. No blame on Cabraja who I thought was excellent again.
Our goal at St J is reported as an own goal - an effort on target that goes in off the defender, not played by the defender.
Pedantic I know but I would be taking it off the dirty pr!ck.
Red card? Stonewall booking, studs up and late on Campbell. Right under the ref and not interested. Twice, end of 1st half stoppage time and again 2nd half when Rocky went down injured - Shankland has eyes on the defender not the ball backing in both times. Both easily spotted fouls at that point. Then proceeds both times to throw his arm back and in to Rockys face, catching him both times. Neither were for leverage, he never jumped either time.
Both obvious fouls - the second one highlighted because Rocky went down but for me 1st one end of first half worse and a booking.... result though, 1st one a foul FOR Shankland, 2nd one play on.
Rocky and Shankland again later on, Rocky slides in taking the ball clean as a nut and is then on the ground. Shankland clambers over his head a few times as he is grounded... another free kick FOR Shankland!
There was a couple bookings in there for the forehead but as ref was in tow he was never in danger so could continue being a dirty rat.
Not to mention the deliberate handball!
Shankland rant over (& yes, dirty but a good player)
CapitalGreen
08-08-2022, 07:07 AM
Campbell’s header wasn’t going on target, Shankland’s shot was.
H18 SFR
08-08-2022, 07:26 AM
To be honest with you OP you suggest you’re being pedantic - you are.
Shankland gets the goal. He also should have got a yellow but the key factor here is the ref was Beaton.
Sadly Beaton is relatively young in referee terms so we will be talking about him for at least a decade if not more. Won’t surprise me if his compliance officer issue from the Livi game is brushed under the carpet.
McGruber
08-08-2022, 07:30 AM
Campbell’s header wasn’t going on target, Shankland’s shot was.
Was Campbell's not on target? Sorry, I missed that - thought it was. Own goal then!
That description of our goal against St Johnstone is inaccurate. Agree that it wasn’t initially going in.
Rocky deflected Josh’s header in with his right elbow. McPherson was behind Rocky and the ball went nowhere near him.
https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ
Slow down at 3.37 in this video and it’s there for all to see 😀.. Well done Rocky!
BILLYHIBS
08-08-2022, 07:42 AM
Brother Beaton only had eyes for Hearts players who went down as if hit by a sniper at every turn
Booking 3 Hibs players and 1 Hearts player
Hibs should do a Celtic and say they no longer want him to officiate at any of their games or future Derbies and ( The Rangers) at least
Yes Shankland should have been booked and red carded but the guy is quality took his goal well and will only improve as he gets fitter and playing off Boyce
Did not understand the booking of our new left back as he appeared to play the ball every time during that passage of play
Very good player
That description of our goal against St Johnstone is inaccurate. Agree that it wasn’t initially going in.
Rocky deflected Josh’s header in with his right elbow. McPherson was behind Rocky and the ball went nowhere near him.
https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ
Slow down at 3.37 in this video and it’s there for all to see 😀.. Well done Rocky!
There's a video from a different angle where you can see it goes in off the St Johnstone player.
Cat Stanton
08-08-2022, 07:43 AM
That description of our goal against St Johnstone is inaccurate. Agree that it wasn’t initially going in.
Rocky deflected Josh’s header in with his right elbow. McPherson was behind Rocky and the ball went nowhere near him.
https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ
Slow down at 3.37 in this video and it’s there for all to see 😀.. Well done Rocky!
Jings - hadn't noticed that. Clear handball. Thank God we don't have VAR yet....
superfurryhibby
08-08-2022, 08:28 AM
There's a video from a different angle where you can see it goes in off the St Johnstone player.
Most clips seem to show the ball hitting the St J player. There is one from a totally different angle which shows unequivocally that it was Rocky that elbowed the ball home.
Shankland needs claiming next time we play them, he was a dirty , sneaky , bassa today.
SquashedFrogg
08-08-2022, 08:37 AM
There's a video from a different angle where you can see it goes in off the St Johnstone player.
This. Saw it last week. Defo comes off saints player.
LaMotta
08-08-2022, 08:38 AM
That description of our goal against St Johnstone is inaccurate. Agree that it wasn’t initially going in.
Rocky deflected Josh’s header in with his right elbow. McPherson was behind Rocky and the ball went nowhere near him.
https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ
Slow down at 3.37 in this video and it’s there for all to see ��.. Well done Rocky!
Jings - hadn't noticed that. Clear handball. Thank God we don't have VAR yet....
Most clips seem to show the ball hitting the St J player. There is one from a totally different angle which shows unequivocally that it was Rocky that elbowed the ball home.
Shankland needs claiming next time we play them, he was a dirty , sneaky , bassa today.
It doesn't hit off Rocky. It hits off the St Johnstone players chest.
I can see why people think it does from the video above but If you slow the video right down you see it hit the saints player.
26108
Rocky lifts his arm at the same time, look closely though at that pic and Rockys arm is behind the saints player. As other videos from better angles prove it doesnt touch Rocky.:cb
Partyraiser
08-08-2022, 08:41 AM
Being pedantic here but...
Cabraja plays the ball - it doesn't hit off him and wasn't a deflection. No blame on Cabraja who I thought was excellent again.
Our goal at St J is reported as an own goal - an effort on target that goes in off the defender, not played by the defender.
Pedantic I know but I would be taking it off the dirty pr!ck.
Red card? Stonewall booking, studs up and late on Campbell. Right under the ref and not interested. Twice, end of 1st half stoppage time and again 2nd half when Rocky went down injured - Shankland has eyes on the defender not the ball backing in both times. Both easily spotted fouls at that point. Then proceeds both times to throw his arm back and in to Rockys face, catching him both times. Neither were for leverage, he never jumped either time.
Both obvious fouls - the second one highlighted because Rocky went down but for me 1st one end of first half worse and a booking.... result though, 1st one a foul FOR Shankland, 2nd one play on.
Rocky and Shankland again later on, Rocky slides in taking the ball clean as a nut and is then on the ground. Shankland clambers over his head a few times as he is grounded... another free kick FOR Shankland!
There was a couple bookings in there for the forehead but as ref was in tow he was never in danger so could continue being a dirty rat.
Not to mention the deliberate handball!
Shankland rant over (& yes, dirty but a good player)
Far too big to be a forehead, it's definitely a five head
superfurryhibby
08-08-2022, 09:52 AM
It doesn't hit off Rocky. It hits off the St Johnstone players chest.
I can see why people think it does from the video above but If you slow the video right down you see it hit the saints player.
26108
Rocky lifts his arm at the same time, look closely though at that pic and Rockys arm is behind the saints player. As other videos from better angles prove it doesnt touch Rocky.:cb
You’ve not seen the video in question, taken from a completely different angle. It hits Rocky’s elbow, end of. And no, posting stills etc doesn’t change my mind . The video evidence is conclusive. The ball did not touch the St J player at all.
LaMotta
08-08-2022, 09:56 AM
You’ve not seen the video in question, taken from a completely different angle. It hits Rocky’s elbow, end of. And no, posting stills etc doesn’t change my mind . The video evidence is conclusive. The ball did not touch the St J player at all.
Can you show us the video?
This one from behind the goals again shows it hitting the Saints player on the chest.
https://twitter.com/cabbage0762/status/1553505107156893697?t=GLhY641vfwc7T8zQx9DJhA&s=19
CapitalGreen
08-08-2022, 09:57 AM
Can you show us the video?
This one from behind the goals again shows it hitting the Saints player on the chest.
https://twitter.com/cabbage0762/status/1553505107156893697?t=GLhY641vfwc7T8zQx9DJhA&s=19
It clearly goes in off the Saints player.
BILLYHIBS
08-08-2022, 10:00 AM
Shankland admitted on Sportscene the ball hit him top of the shoulder upper arm when trying to control it but definitely not a hand ball
🤔
LaMotta
08-08-2022, 10:04 AM
It clearly goes in off the Saints player.
Exactly. But someone just said it hit off Rocky - end of...:hilarious
CapitalGreen
08-08-2022, 10:09 AM
Shankland admitted on Sportscene the ball hit him top of the shoulder upper arm when trying to control it but definitely not a hand ball
🤔
Top of the shoulder/ upper arm is no longer considered handball.
BILLYHIBS
08-08-2022, 10:13 AM
Top of the shoulder/ upper arm is no longer considered handball.
Yip both pundits Kenny Miller and Mickey Stewart said goal should stand
A goal of real quality
hibsbollah
08-08-2022, 10:15 AM
Yip both pundits Kenny Miller and Mickey Stewart said goal should stand
A goal of real quality
They also said Hearts were the better team and deserved to win so they can both GTF.
NAE NOOKIE
08-08-2022, 10:15 AM
Shankland admitted on Sportscene the ball hit him top of the shoulder upper arm when trying to control it but definitely not a hand ball
🤔
The ball hit him on the upper arm below where it joins the shoulder ... in other words it hit his arm which makes it hand ball ... it's a goal VAR would have disallowed, I don't know what position the assistant ref was in, but Beaton can't be blamed for not seeing it, the only leeway he gets from me for what was otherwise an inept performance.
JeMeSouviens
08-08-2022, 10:17 AM
You’ve not seen the video in question, taken from a completely different angle. It hits Rocky’s elbow, end of. And no, posting stills etc doesn’t change my mind . The video evidence is conclusive. The ball did not touch the St J player at all.
This video linked above - https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ?t=215 ?
Slow it down to quarter speed and you can see it's definitely the Saints player. Rocky is innocent! :greengrin
https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ?t=215
WhileTheChief..
08-08-2022, 10:18 AM
Brother Beaton only had eyes for Hearts players who went down as if hit by a sniper at every turn
Booking 3 Hibs players and 1 Hearts player
Hibs should do a Celtic and say they no longer want him to officiate at any of their games or future Derbies and ( The Rangers) at least
Yes Shankland should have been booked and red carded but the guy is quality took his goal well and will only improve as he gets fitter and playing off Boyce
Did not understand the booking of our new left back as he appeared to play the ball every time during that passage of play
Very good player
No, we really shouldn't. We're not run by 5 year olds having a tantrum!!
Besides, it would be pretty weird if the ref is biased in favour of those 3 , against Hibs.
You want to offer any possible reason for this bias or are you, in the nicest possible way, just bumping your gums a little? :greengrin
CapitalGreen
08-08-2022, 10:20 AM
The ball hit him on the upper arm below where it joins the shoulder ... in other words it hit his arm which makes it hand ball ... it's a goal VAR would have disallowed, I don't know what position the assistant ref was in, but Beaton can't be blamed for not seeing it, the only leeway he gets from me for what was otherwise an inept performance.
That’s not correct, the upper arm is no longer hand ball.
https://resources.premierleague.com/photos/2020/09/10/79748731-f836-4d59-8da4-6f4d048d4620/Handball_guidelines_2020.jpg?width=1350&height=759
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1820123
McGruber
08-08-2022, 10:32 AM
That’s not correct, the upper arm is no longer hand ball.
https://resources.premierleague.com/photos/2020/09/10/79748731-f836-4d59-8da4-6f4d048d4620/Handball_guidelines_2020.jpg?width=1350&height=759
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1820123
Even with that, still handball for me - comes off his bicep.
The ball is coming from behind him over his shoulder, he either needs to turn his chest/shoulder round into it or use his arm. He never turned and it came off his arm. Would say however no blame for the officials on that one, was a close call - to the extent people are still calling it differently after replays and different angles
greenlex
08-08-2022, 10:39 AM
The ball hit him on the upper arm below where it joins the shoulder ... in other words it hit his arm which makes it hand ball ... it's a goal VAR would have disallowed, I don't know what position the assistant ref was in, but Beaton can't be blamed for not seeing it, the only leeway he gets from me for what was otherwise an inept performance.
VAR should help but it’s only down to the perception of the person in control of it. I’m not convinced this particular incident would 100% be overturned. Just watched a penalty call during the Man Utd game yesterday. As stonewall a penalty as you’ll see. Not given in real time and the ref not asked to gave a look at it. Makes VAR in this instance a bit of a nonsense.
Killiehibbie
08-08-2022, 10:46 AM
That’s not correct, the upper arm is no longer hand ball.
https://resources.premierleague.com/photos/2020/09/10/79748731-f836-4d59-8da4-6f4d048d4620/Handball_guidelines_2020.jpg?width=1350&height=759
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1820123
The upper part of the upper arm is not a handball. The bicep is part of the upper arm and is a handball
BILLYHIBS
08-08-2022, 10:58 AM
No, we really shouldn't. We're not run by 5 year olds having a tantrum!!
Besides, it would be pretty weird if the ref is biased in favour of those 3 , against Hibs.
You want to offer any possible reason for this bias or are you, in the nicest possible way, just bumping your gums a little? :greengrin
Naw just basically pissed off at Beaton’s obvious bias over the seasons against us
A perfectly fair observation with loads of precedent to back it up
Duh! Just check the Beaton Thread
I take it you think Beaton has been ok in all of those games ?
It is ok for Hearts and The Rangers players to put in a challenge but not Hibs
Never ever seen him pull up an opposition player for blatant time wasting and feigning injury
Booked our left back yesterday for two clean challenges where he clearly won the ball fairly and squarely
As for bumping my gums I thought that was what football forums were for ?
Oh and I only mentioned two Hearts and The Rangers
Sorry but even thinking about him makes my blood boil 😀
Jpdhfc
08-08-2022, 11:04 AM
Top of the shoulder/ upper arm is no longer considered handball.
Only when the ball hits a player
You are still not allowed to use any part of your arm to control the ball
Not In The Know
08-08-2022, 11:07 AM
Boyles injury time shot that was deflected out for a corner came of the Hearts players arm while he was on the ground. Stone wall penalty.
WhileTheChief..
08-08-2022, 11:25 AM
Naw just basically pissed off at Beaton’s obvious bias over the seasons against us
A perfectly fair observation with loads of precedent to back it up
Duh! Just check the Beaton Thread
I take it you think Beaton has been ok in all of those games ?
It is ok for Hearts and The Rangers players to put in a challenge but not Hibs
Never ever seen him pull up an opposition player for blatant time wasting and feigning injury
Booked our left back yesterday for two clean challenges yesterday where he clearly won the ball fairly and squarely
As for bumping my gums I thought that was what football forums were for ?
Oh and I only mentioned two Hearts and The Rangers
Sorry but even thinking about him makes my blood boil 😀
Crikey, it was a light hearted post I made. Never mind :rolleyes:
BILLYHIBS
08-08-2022, 11:29 AM
Crikey, it was a light hearted post I made. Never mind :rolleyes:
👍
Yeah as I said even thinking about him winds me up no end. 😀
Gordy M
08-08-2022, 11:31 AM
There was another incident i noticed watching sportscene, but didnt at the game, was a shot that was on target but Hearts player deflected it by the post with his arm. It was late on in the game.
SChibs
08-08-2022, 11:38 AM
Quite glad we never got it with our penalty record recently
Alfred E Newman
08-08-2022, 11:42 AM
To be honest with you OP you suggest you’re being pedantic - you are.
Shankland gets the goal. He also should have got a yellow but the key factor here is the ref was Beaton.
Sadly Beaton is relatively young in referee terms so we will be talking about him for at least a decade if not more. Won’t surprise me if his compliance officer issue from the Livi game is brushed under the carpet.
The thing is, as with Black in 2012, if he is rightly booked for the bad foul on Campbell he doesn't have a free hand to carry on committing fouls for the rest of the game.
Also, Porteous probably doesn't steam into Boyce after the Campbell incident giving Beaton the opportunity to flash the card at him
shetlandhibee
08-08-2022, 11:51 AM
The ball hit him on the upper arm below where it joins the shoulder ... in other words it hit his arm which makes it hand ball ... it's a goal VAR would have disallowed, I don't know what position the assistant ref was in, but Beaton can't be blamed for not seeing it, the only leeway he gets from me for what was otherwise an inept performance.
Completely agree his arm is extended from his chest at the last moment to control the ball hit him on the bicep (arm!) a clear handball not a chance car would have allowed it👌
shetlandhibee
08-08-2022, 11:52 AM
Completely agree his arm is extended from his chest at the last moment to control the ball hit him on the bicep (arm!) a clear handball not a chance car would have allowed it👌
Var 🤣
superfurryhibby
08-08-2022, 12:22 PM
Can you show us the video?
This one from behind the goals again shows it hitting the Saints player on the chest.
https://twitter.com/cabbage0762/status/1553505107156893697?t=GLhY641vfwc7T8zQx9DJhA&s=19
Yep, that one looks like it hits the St J player, there is other footage, not the one posted below this. It gives a clear and unequivocal angle which shows Rocky elbowing the ball and the opposition player makes no contact whatsoever.
I cannae be bothered, but it was quoted plenty on the thread at the time, or the next day anyway. I do agree that the angle of the vid you posted, it looks different.
Helensburghhibs
08-08-2022, 12:30 PM
The best part of the whole shankland elbow incident was the camera cutting to the gaffer who without being a lipreader was telling rocky to "get up add stop being a Dick" 😂🤣
This video linked above - https://youtu.be/VftmTuRmkkQ
Slow it down to quarter speed and you can see it's definitely the Saints player. Rocky is innocent! :greengrin
The GreenGrin is noted JMS :wink:
If you have YouTube on your large screen TV, forward frame by frame.
At 3.35 you can clearly see Rocky moving his right elbow outwards toward the ball and it then suddenly changes direction into the goal. His reaction where he initially pretends he doesn't know what has happened, then when the goal stands, he wildly runs towards Josh celebrating their mutual collaboration in the goal. Says it all - A broad guilty smile lol!:tee hee:
edit: just realised that mcpherson is the player in front of Rocky not behind, so maybe it brushes his shoulder before RB deflects it in with his arm?
But if the Compliance Officer is looking in - it was Defo an own goal!!!
LaMotta
08-08-2022, 01:10 PM
Yep, that one looks like it hits the St J player, there is other footage, not the one posted below this. It gives a clear and unequivocal angle which shows Rocky elbowing the ball and the opposition player makes no contact whatsoever.
I cannae be bothered, but it was quoted plenty on the thread at the time, or the next day anyway. I do agree that the angle of the vid you posted, it looks different.
There is no footage that shows Rocky hitting the ball with his elbow, because he didnt. It hit the St Johnstione players chest. The video you reffered to at the time on the previous thread is the one that has been posted on this thread several times from the pitchside camera, which clearly shows Rockys arm behind the defender, and it hits the defender on the chest.
The GreenGrin is noted JMS :wink:
If you have YouTube on your large screen TV, forward frame by frame.
At 3.35 you can clearly see Rocky moving his right elbow outwards toward the ball and it then suddenly changes direction into the goal. His reaction where he initially pretends he doesn't know what has happened, then when the goal stands, he wildly runs towards Josh celebrating their mutual collaboration in the goal. Says it all - A broad guilty smile lol!:tee hee:
Also look at McPherson's position relative to Rocky and Josh. He's directly behind Rocky and Bushiri has his left arm across the St Johnstone defender's chest. No part of McPherson's body connects with the ball after it leaves Rocky's right elbow.
But if the Compliance Officer is looking in - it was Defo an own goal!!!
You seriously need new glasses my friend, nothing you have described happens!
Helensburghhibs
08-08-2022, 01:37 PM
The best part of the whole shankland elbow incident was the camera cutting to the gaffer who without being a lipreader was telling rocky to "get up add stop being a Dick" 😂🤣
superfurryhibby
08-08-2022, 01:59 PM
There is no footage that shows Rocky hitting the ball with his elbow, because he didnt. It hit the St Johnstione players chest. The video you reffered to at the time on the previous thread is the one that has been posted on this thread several times from the pitchside camera, which clearly shows Rockys arm behind the defender, and it hits the defender on the chest.
You seriously need new glasses my friend, nothing you have described happens!
3.10. Slow it down to half speed and watch as Rocky neatly elbows the ball in to the net.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VftmTuRmkkQ
LaMotta
08-08-2022, 02:55 PM
3.10. Slow it down to half speed and watch as Rocky neatly elbows the ball in to the net.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VftmTuRmkkQ
I just have. I've watched the replay again at 3.35 which is in slow motion also. It def doesnt hit Rocky. It clearly hits the Saints player's chest.
Not only have several Hibs fans spotted Rocky's arm / elbow punch into the net but Garry and Joelle were having a laugh about it on the club Derby build up video too.
Wind it forward to just after 12 minutes then forward to Garry's simulation of what Rocky did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cvmAiHFYNM
Anyway - don't want to highlight it too much other than to say both Campbell and Bushiri know what happened - and they're no tellin' :faf:
LaMotta
08-08-2022, 03:08 PM
Not only have several Hibs fans spotted Rocky's arm / elbow punch into the net but Garry and Joelle were having a laugh about it on the club Derby build up video too.
Wind it forward to just after 12 minutes then forward to Garry's simulation of what Rocky did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cvmAiHFYNM
Anyway - don't want to highlight it too much other than to say both Campbell and Bushiri know what happened - and they're no tellin' :faf:
You've just posted another video of it clearly being chested in by the Saints defender. Using Garry O'Connor as your star witness doesn't strengthen your argument either.:wink:
Anyway this is like trying to convince mad people that the Emperor is actually naked - I'm bowing out on that point.
You've just posted another video of it clearly being chested in by the Saints defender. Using Garry O'Connor as your star witness doesn't strengthen your argument either.:wink:
Anyway this is like trying to convince mad people that the Emperor is actually naked - I'm bowing out on that point.
I'm a Perth-based Hibee and a lad I know is pally with a couple of Saints players. Adam Montgomery was a couple of metres away and spotted the Bushiri handball. Whether it bounced off McPherson's chest wasn't what irked Adam - it was the fact that Rocky then guided the ball into the net with his arm past the Saints goalie.
He saw it right in front of him and immediately claimed handball. But too many of his teammates were facing in different directions and most importantly it happened far too fast for the ref to spot it. So he was a lone voice and was left to bump his gums in the Saints dressing room afterwards.
I wasn't at the match but when I heard of the complaint on the Monday, I decided to watch it back. It looks like Garry O'Connor and Joelle Murray also spotted it along with other fans. But only Rocky knows for sure and he's no tellin'
PS you can see Montgomery claiming for the handball at 5.07 on the following vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM9W0vaGOHc
Some of the Twitter and Pie&Bovril chat was about the punch
https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1553485835634294784
https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/284056-st-johnstone-vs-hibernian-300722-battle-of-the-banter-clubs/page/13/#comment-15368968
Eyrie
08-08-2022, 07:24 PM
Completely agree his arm is extended from his chest at the last moment to control the ball hit him on the bicep (arm!) a clear handball not a chance car would have allowed it👌
Correct.
If Shankland hadn't stuck his arm out then he couldn't have controlled the ball to score.
As I've said elsewhere, if a defender did that then it would be a penalty.
Boyles injury time shot that was deflected out for a corner came of the Hearts players arm while he was on the ground. Stone wall penalty.
Yeah, it looked on target until it hit Halkett's arm. Definitely wasn't deliberate but that doesn't matter these days. I'm surprised there's not been much mention of it anywhere.
3.10. Slow it down to half speed and watch as Rocky neatly elbows the ball in to the net.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VftmTuRmkkQ
I thought so too until someone replied with the link to the other angle. Definitely off the St Jonhstone player.
I notice the other St Johnstone defender has his arms all over/round Rocky from before the corner is taken until the ball goes in the net so St Johnstone should be complaining it should have been a Hibs penalty instead of a goal.
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