Taking the knee

[Monts]

Due to be reduced in England. Only done at significant games/times.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62404611

[Brummie_Hibs]

Only done at significant games/times.
So purely virtue signalling for when a lot of people are watching a top 4 game on TV.

[CropleyWasGod]

So purely virtue signalling for when a lot of people are watching a top 4 game on TV.

Or those with the biggest audiences to ensure maximum effect?

[Brummie_Hibs]

Or those with the biggest audiences to ensure maximum effect?
Does sitting on your knee for 10 seconds cost so much money that they have to ration it only for big occasions?

[WhileTheChief..]

Thought folk stopped doing this yonks ago.

[SquashedFrogg]

Thought folk stopped doing this yonks ago.

We done it on Saturday.

[RIP]

Outright racism at fitba has all but disappeared since the welcome demise of the rat Yaxley-Lennon and his kiddie fiddling EDL/SDL supporters.

Even SEVCO who used to have a link to the Far Right have been supporting their black players by speaking out publicly, banning supporters and even a whole bus guilty of abuse and by supporting Show Racism the Red Card. The backlash against the English players was also resounding from all sections of society.

So whilst racism still exists in society, happily for now at least, it seems less prominent in the game of football, does it not?

[CropleyWasGod]

Does sitting on your knee for 10 seconds cost so much money that they have to ration it only for big occasions?

Is it a money thing?

For me, it's more of an effect thing. Do it all the time and people stop noticing it. Do it now and again, with a big audience, and they do notice it..

[Ringothedog]

Thought folk stopped doing this yonks ago.

You are either late going into games or it has lost its impact on you. Happens at near enough every game.

[Coco Bryce]

You are either late going into games or it has lost its impact on you. Happens at near enough every game.

For about a second now.

Blink and you'll miss it.

[worcesterhibby]

with the number of black players now in the Scottish game, I can only see the small amount of "blatant" racism that still exists diminishing. I'm not going to do some sort of poor taste head count, but I'm pretty sure there are more black players at Hibs and in the SPL in general than ever before. Most, if not all, teams will have black players on the park and therefore it normalises what was once an unusual sight. We've come a long way since Kevin Harper made his debut for Hibs in 1992 age 17

[bigwheel]

with the number of black players now in the Scottish game, I can only see the small amount of "blatant" racism that still exists diminishing. I'm not going to do some sort of poor taste head count, but I'm pretty sure there are more black players at Hibs and in the SPL in general than ever before. Most, if not all, teams will have black players on the park and therefore it normalises what was once an unusual sight. We've come a long way since Kevin Harper made his debut for Hibs in 1992 age 17

“More black players will diminish racism” “unusual can only assume this is a bad parody post …the 50M and growing strong black Population in the USA will be delighted it’s increase has helped reduce racism there …

[wookie70]

“More black players will diminish racism” “unusual can only assume this is a bad parody post …the 50M and growing strong black Population in the USA will be delighted it’s increase has helped reduce racism there …

I get your point but I think the growing diversity in Scottish football may help reduce racism within our football. Most teams at the top end of Scottish Football have a mix of players from all over the world and that has probably stopped the abuse of players due to skin colour as you would be essentially abusing your own players too.

[bigwheel]

I get your point but I think the growing diversity in Scottish football may help reduce racism within our football. Most teams at the top end of Scottish Football have a mix of players from all over the world and that has probably stopped the abuse of players due to skin colour as you would be essentially abusing your own players too.

I’d love if that were true, but has racism reduced in the UK in recent years as the population diversifies?? I’d say extreme views have perhaps never been more evident . There are social and political effects at play that are driving division across the UK and beyond . we’ve had a number of black players at Hibs and it hasn’t stopped racist instances on occasion in recent times.

[vercol36]

I’ve got no problem with it, and to suggest rationing of a political gesture is farcical.

Would also love to see players take more of a proactive role against homophobia. Already some initiatives in place, but the fact that so few players have felt comfortable coming out is not great

[Mcbizz1998]

So purely virtue signalling for when a lot of people are watching a top 4 game on TV.

As opposed to virtue signalling every game.

[Eyrie]

Is it a money thing?

For me, it's more of an effect thing. Do it all the time and people stop noticing it. Do it now and again, with a big audience, and they do notice it..

Correct.

[Dmas]

Is it a money thing?

For me, it's more of an effect thing. Do it all the time and people stop noticing it. Do it now and again, with a big audience, and they do notice it..

It lost its meaning the minute it was an agreed upon and whistle controlled part of football for me, I totally agree with the message that’s being attempted to put across with it, but the original taking the knee was done at a time where it made an effect on a whole nation grabbed headlines I think it was then hugely diluted by how football carried it good intentions or not.

All my opinion of course I have seen any black players criticise it up here so maybe I’m way off the mark

[FilipinoHibs]

Outright racism at fitba has all but disappeared since the welcome demise of the rat Yaxley-Lennon and his kiddie fiddling EDL/SDL supporters.

Even SEVCO who used to have a link to the Far Right have been supporting their black players by speaking out publicly, banning supporters and even a whole bus guilty of abuse and by supporting Show Racism the Red Card. The backlash against the English players was also resounding from all sections of society.

So whilst racism still exists in society, happily for now at least, it seems less prominent in the game of football, does it not?

Wow remember a lot of the England fans booing during the Euros when the knee was taken last year? Certainly worth taken in internationals with so many countries still having large racist elements in their support.

[hibsbollah]

As opposed to virtue signalling every game.

More virtue please.

[RIP]

Wow remember a lot of the England fans booing during the Euros when the knee was taken last year? Certainly worth taken in internationals with so many countries still having large racist elements in their support.

I remember very well. I wouldn’t say the element was large but it was noisy. I’ve no doubt that there are some English nationalists that hold racist views.

I don’t think we would ever witness that behaviour in this country.

[Keith_M]

I remember very well. I wouldn’t say the element was large but it was noisy. I’ve no doubt that there are some English nationalists that hold racist views.

I don’t think we would ever witness that behaviour in this country.


Sadly racism is quite prevalent in this country, but the scale of it is totally overshadowed by the level of sectarianism, especially at football games.

The hypocrisy of clubs like The Rangers condemning racism (after an unacceptable slur on one of their players)... well, to use one of their own phrases, "beggars belief"

[SlickShoes]

I remember very well. I wouldn’t say the element was large but it was noisy. I’ve no doubt that there are some English nationalists that hold racist views.

I don’t think we would ever witness that behaviour in this country.

May I present to you The Rangers

[Brightside]

Leave it to the playing staff. They should decide as a group what they want to do. But lets not kid on that having more ethnic players in the league will make it less of an issue. Its a much bigger issue in England which as a country is far more multi cultural than Scotland ever well be.

Btw I also will never understand why white guys watching football have such an issue with it.

[worcesterhibby]

“More black players will diminish racism” “unusual can only assume this is a bad parody post …the 50M and growing strong black Population in the USA will be delighted it’s increase has helped reduce racism there …

No it wasn't a bad parody post, and to suggest it was is both aggressive, counter productive and slanderous. I didn't for one second suggest that racism doesn't still exist. And using quotes marks to suggest I said something specific that I didn't is also very poor form.

I was talking about "blatant" racism within football grounds, where black players receive concerted racist abuse both verbally and via thrown objects etc. In my experience that has pretty much stopped now in Scotland. It's certainly nothing like the level it was 20 years ago. That is a good thing, I believe the fact that almost every top flight club have cult heroes and club legends who are black will have had an positive impact on the slow but obvious progress that has been made in reducing racism in our Scottish football culture.

Note the word "reducing" not "removing".

To suggest that by pointing this out I was suggesting it had any bearing on race politics in America is both antagonistic and quite simply stupid.

By suggesting my post was a "bad parody" you are suggesting I am racist. Any further hint of that and I will report you to admins for abuse.

feel free to apologise

[jacomo]

So purely virtue signalling for when a lot of people are watching a top 4 game on TV.


Pathetic comment.

If you are more offended by people taking the knee briefly than you are about racist abuse then I suggest you reconsider your priorities.

[jacomo]

I’d love if that were true, but has racism reduced in the UK in recent years as the population diversifies?? I’d say extreme views have perhaps never been more evident . There are social and political effects at play that are driving division across the UK and beyond . we’ve had a number of black players at Hibs and it hasn’t stopped racist instances on occasion in recent times.


The Brexit vote saw a noticeable and sustained increase in overt racism. That is a matter of fact.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Pathetic comment.

If you are more offended by people taking the knee briefly than you are about racist abuse then I suggest you reconsider your priorities.

Thanks - I will file your suggestions in my big folder called 'go ****** off'.

Have a nice day!

[OldEast]

Thanks - I will file your suggestions in my big folder called 'go ****** off'.

Have a nice day!

I understood your post and tend to agree.

[RIP]

Sadly racism is quite prevalent in this country, but the scale of it is totally overshadowed by the level of sectarianism, especially at football games.

The hypocrisy of clubs like The Rangers condemning racism (after an unacceptable slur on one of their players)... well, to use one of their own phrases, "beggars belief"

Can you give me some examples of racism displayed at football grounds North of the Border? I’m aware that it exists in society as witnessed by the SDL backlash against the BLM rallies in 2020.

I know a few Rangers lads who are active in anti racist movements in Glasgow and at a UK level with Football Lads and Lassies Against Fascism. Rangers supporters are also solidly behind the Show Racism The Red Card campaign.

We can easily beat them with a stick for a lack of progress on Sectarianism but I’m in solidarity with their activism against racism. They have all but stamped it out within their club.

[Pretty Boy]

If the players have decided on taking a new stance then that's what should happen. Hibs made a decision to stop taking the knee and 'stand against racism' instead last year. It looks like we have gone back to taking a knee this year. Both absolutely fine with me as it's a grown up decision made after a discussion between players. As is this decision in England.

I would argue if these actions become either mandated or just another part of the match day routine then they lose their significance. I'm sure we can all think of things in life that are just so commonplace that we stop noticing them in any meaningful way. Taking the knee has arguably hit that point, it's become like the pre match handshake or the coin toss, it's just 'something' that happens. Restricting it's usage to 5 or 6 games a season arguably brings back that impact and allows it to be delivered with a stronger accompanying message.

Ultimately it's up to the players as both a collective and as individuals what they want to do. This doesn't seem to be a decision they have taken lightly.

[jacomo]

Thanks - I will file your suggestions in my big folder called 'go ****** off'.

Have a nice day!


This response is both predictable and pathetic.

You must be so proud of yourself!

[Brummie_Hibs]

This response is both predictable and pathetic.

You must be so proud of yourself!
I was

[jacomo]

I was


Sorry to hear that.

[hibby rae]

Can you give me some examples of racism displayed at football grounds North of the Border? I’m aware that it exists in society as witnessed by the SDL backlash against the BLM rallies in 2020.

I know a few Rangers lads who are active in anti racist movements in Glasgow and at a UK level with Football Lads and Lassies Against Fascism. Rangers supporters are also solidly behind the Show Racism The Red Card campaign.

We can easily beat them with a stick for a lack of progress on Sectarianism but I’m in solidarity with their activism against racism. They have all but stamped it out within their club.

Off the top of my head Regan Charles Cooke, Marvin Bartley, and Rice Quitongo jave all experienced it in recent years.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Sorry to hear that.
I accept your sorrows - I will feast on your tears.

Anyway, this thread is going to be closed down by admins at this rate....

[jacomo]

I accept your sorrows - I will feast on your tears.

Anyway, this thread is going to be closed down by admins at this rate....


150 years ago our club was formed in response to discrimination and racism. Presumably you dismiss that as virtue signalling as well?

[hibby rae]

More virtue please.

The term "virtue signalling" really winds me up. By being members of this board we are signalling our virtue as Hibs supporters.

Everyone signals virtue in some ways. But people use the term to try and justify their reason for not liking something quite reasonable and fair in modern society

[hibby rae]

Leave it to the playing staff. They should decide as a group what they want to do. But lets not kid on that having more ethnic players in the league will make it less of an issue. Its a much bigger issue in England which as a country is far more multi cultural than Scotland ever well be.

Btw I also will never understand why white guys watching football have such an issue with it.

I think we know why they have an issue with it!

[jacomo]

The term "virtue signalling" really winds me up. By being members of this board we are signalling our virtue as Hibs supporters.

Everyone signals virtue in some ways. But people use the term to try and justify their reason for not liking something quite reasonable and fair in modern society


It’s simply a way of dismissing someone else’s opinion and telling them to shut up.

Ironically, it’s used by people who claim to be concerned about free speech and ‘cancel culture’. Turns out the only free speech they support is opinions they agree with.

[Brummie_Hibs]

It’s simply a way of dismissing someone else’s opinion and telling them to shut up.

Ironically, it’s used by people who claim to be concerned about free speech and ‘cancel culture’. Turns out the only free speech they support is opinions they agree with.
The real irony is that you appear to have a very myopic view of society - a social sheep happily being told how you should think and live. When to be happy, when to be sad, when to bang a kettle outside a window, when to wear a blue and white emblem. What is right, what is wrong. To be seen doing it - get it on Facebook, get it on Instagram, Tweet it - get your likes, feel good in yourself and the whole world is a happy place as you get to live another day free in one's privileged life. BULL***T!

People like you have been so brainwashed, that you attack anybody slightly different. (Do you see the irony yet?) You don't understand that there are some people out there who have evolved their own thoughts on life, instead of being spoon fed by the media/sport/social media.

Now you'll come out with some nonsense about me being racist and supporting racism, but this ain't anything to do with that. It is the right to be able to express views different to what is being peddled as the new normal.

[hibby rae]

The real irony is that you appear to have a very myopic view of society - a social sheep happily being told how you should think and live. When to be happy, when to be sad, when to bang a kettle outside a window, when to wear a blue and white emblem. What is right, what is wrong. To be seen doing it - get it on Facebook, get it on Instagram, Tweet it - get your likes, feel good in yourself and the whole world is a happy place as you get to live another day free in one's privileged life. BULL***T!

People like you have been so brainwashed, that you attack anybody slightly different. (Do you see the irony yet?) You don't understand that there are some people out there who have evolved their own thoughts on life, instead of being spoon fed by the media/sport/social media.

Now you'll come out with some nonsense about me being racist and supporting racism, but this ain't anything to do with that. It is the right to be able to express views different to what is being peddled as the new normal.

Wow, there's a lot going on there.

So what is your different view?

[Tyler Durden]

The real irony is that you appear to have a very myopic view of society - a social sheep happily being told how you should think and live. When to be happy, when to be sad, when to bang a kettle outside a window, when to wear a blue and white emblem. What is right, what is wrong. To be seen doing it - get it on Facebook, get it on Instagram, Tweet it - get your likes, feel good in yourself and the whole world is a happy place as you get to live another day free in one's privileged life. BULL***T!

People like you have been so brainwashed, that you attack anybody slightly different. (Do you see the irony yet?) You don't understand that there are some people out there who have evolved their own thoughts on life, instead of being spoon fed by the media/sport/social media.

Now you'll come out with some nonsense about me being racist and supporting racism, but this ain't anything to do with that. It is the right to be able to express views different to what is being peddled as the new normal.

What a lot of nonsense. Reads as if you've copied and pasted it to be honest.

Spoon fed by the media.... did you come up with the term "virtue signalling" all on your own? The "new normal" :faf:

Wow what a free thinker you are.

[Pretty Boy]

There's going to be a post about the earth being flat and covid vaccines being part of a Bill Gates plan for world domination soon isn't there? :hilarious

[matty_f]

There's going to be a post about the earth being flat and covid vaccines being part of a Bill Gates plan for world domination soon isn't there? :hilarious

Jet fuel can’t melt iron.

[Brummie_Hibs]

What a lot of nonsense. Reads as if you've copied and pasted it to be honest.
I think I'll take that as a compliment - think I'll apply to become editor of the Daily Mail


Spoon fed by the media.... did you come up with the term "virtue signalling" all on your own? The "new normal" :faf:
I didn't come up with that phrase, but I do think it is quite a good one. Some people don't - fairy enuff, that is life.


Wow what a free thinker you are.
I never said I was. I have flaws. However, I recognise that people have different views, and I respect those views instead of slamming them down.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Jet fuel can’t melt iron.
But Nano-thermite can!

Oh wait....I'll get my coat....

[Mcbizz1998]

The real irony is that you appear to have a very myopic view of society - a social sheep happily being told how you should think and live. When to be happy, when to be sad, when to bang a kettle outside a window, when to wear a blue and white emblem. What is right, what is wrong. To be seen doing it - get it on Facebook, get it on Instagram, Tweet it - get your likes, feel good in yourself and the whole world is a happy place as you get to live another day free in one's privileged life. BULL***T!

People like you have been so brainwashed, that you attack anybody slightly different. (Do you see the irony yet?) You don't understand that there are some people out there who have evolved their own thoughts on life, instead of being spoon fed by the media/sport/social media.

Now you'll come out with some nonsense about me being racist and supporting racism, but this ain't anything to do with that. It is the right to be able to express views different to what is being peddled as the new normal.

Couldn’t agree more.

[Brightside]

Couldn’t agree more.

Well we could have put money on that.

[Mcbizz1998]

Well we could have put money on that.

Wheeeeey! [emoji23]

[Box 17]

The real irony is that you appear to have a very myopic view of society - a social sheep happily being told how you should think and live. When to be happy, when to be sad, when to bang a kettle outside a window, when to wear a blue and white emblem. What is right, what is wrong. To be seen doing it - get it on Facebook, get it on Instagram, Tweet it - get your likes, feel good in yourself and the whole world is a happy place as you get to live another day free in one's privileged life. BULL***T!

People like you have been so brainwashed, that you attack anybody slightly different. (Do you see the irony yet?) You don't understand that there are some people out there who have evolved their own thoughts on life, instead of being spoon fed by the media/sport/social media.

Now you'll come out with some nonsense about me being racist and supporting racism, but this ain't anything to do with that. It is the right to be able to express views different to what is being peddled as the new normal.

Great comment. Totally agree.

[jacomo]

The real irony is that you appear to have a very myopic view of society - a social sheep happily being told how you should think and live. When to be happy, when to be sad, when to bang a kettle outside a window, when to wear a blue and white emblem. What is right, what is wrong. To be seen doing it - get it on Facebook, get it on Instagram, Tweet it - get your likes, feel good in yourself and the whole world is a happy place as you get to live another day free in one's privileged life. BULL***T!

People like you have been so brainwashed, that you attack anybody slightly different. (Do you see the irony yet?) You don't understand that there are some people out there who have evolved their own thoughts on life, instead of being spoon fed by the media/sport/social media.

Now you'll come out with some nonsense about me being racist and supporting racism, but this ain't anything to do with that. It is the right to be able to express views different to what is being peddled as the new normal.


Wait… so you want the right to express your view, yet dismiss footballers expressing their views as virtue signalling?

‘People like you…’ etc… What a lot of utter drivel.

[hibby rae]

Wait… so you want the right to express your view, yet dismiss footballers expressing their views as virtue signalling?

‘People like you…’ etc… What a lot of utter drivel.

👏👏 💯

[jacomo]

However, I recognise that people have different views, and I respect those views instead of slamming them down.


So you demonstrate this respect by having no respect for footballers taking the knee?

:confused:

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s simply a way of dismissing someone else’s opinion and telling them to shut up.

Ironically, it’s used by people who claim to be concerned about free speech and ‘cancel culture’. Turns out the only free speech they support is opinions they agree with.

I don’t agree.

We’ve seen it on this thread already. It’s not about dismissing someone’s opinion, it’s about the people that feel the need to ram it down our throats about how anti racist or whatever they claim to be.

Most of us aren’t racist at all and just get on with our lives. We don’t feel the need to tell the world that we aren’t racist at every opportunity. That’s the virtue signalling part.

I don’t need a random poster on here to tell me racism is bad.

[hibby rae]

I don’t agree.

We’ve seen it on this thread already. It’s not about dismissing someone’s opinion, it’s about the people that feel the need to ram it down our throats about how anti racist or whatever they claim to be.

Most of us aren’t racist at all and just get on with our lives. We don’t feel the need to tell the world that we aren’t racist at every opportunity. That’s the virtue signalling part.

I don’t need a random poster on here to tell me racism is bad.

Well that's a new angle on it!

What constitutes ramming? Because that makes it sounfd like a line has been crossed. Where is the line between a gesture of solidarity or an act of silent peaceful protest becomes ramming imo?

There's a reasonable argument to be made that doing nothing and getting on with your lives makes you part of the problem.

[jacomo]

I don’t agree.

We’ve seen it on this thread already. It’s not about dismissing someone’s opinion, it’s about the people that feel the need to ram it down our throats about how anti racist or whatever they claim to be.

Most of us aren’t racist at all and just get on with our lives. We don’t feel the need to tell the world that we aren’t racist at every opportunity. That’s the virtue signalling part.

I don’t need a random poster on here to tell me racism is bad.


You’ve misunderstood the purpose of it the whole initiative then. Taking the knee is and was always about telling the wider world that more still needs to be done to get rid of racism.

If you really think that 22 players taking the knee for 30 seconds before kick off is ‘ramming it down your throat’ then I feel for you… the world must be a very scary place for someone of your very delicate disposition.

What happens if a stranger asks you to sign a petition, or maybe knocks on your door asking you to support a cause? Do you faint?

[Pretty Boy]

I don’t agree.

We’ve seen it on this thread already. It’s not about dismissing someone’s opinion, it’s about the people that feel the need to ram it down our throats about how anti racist or whatever they claim to be.

Most of us aren’t racist at all and just get on with our lives. We don’t feel the need to tell the world that we aren’t racist at every opportunity. That’s the virtue signalling part.

I don’t need a random poster on here to tell me racism is bad.

Why is being actively anti racist virtue signalling?

If people are content to say 'I'm not racist' and go about their lives then fine. Why should someone be belittled, accused of being brainwashed or whatever else for wanting to do a bit more to raise awareness of and actively protest against an issue that is still prevalent in our society?

If people feel uncomfortable or worse if they are genuinely angered by a visible anti racism then that poses a whole load of questions imo.

[OldEast]

I thought the virtue signalling charge arose because football plans to keep taking the knee at internationals in front of a larger audience but binning it at league games. Do it all the time or not at all.

[WhileTheChief..]

You’ve misunderstood the purpose of it the whole initiative then. Taking the knee is and was always about telling the wider world that more still needs to be done to get rid of racism.

If you really think that 22 players taking the knee for 30 seconds before kick off is ‘ramming it down your throat’ then I feel for you… the world must be a very scary place for someone of your very delicate disposition.

What happens if a stranger asks you to sign a petition, or maybe knocks on your door asking you to support a cause? Do you faint?

Ok I'm not talking about taking the knee here, I was responding to your point about virtue signalling in general.

I'm happy to accept that you aren't racist. I'd hope you can extend me the same courtesy.

This next bit is not directed at you..

Virtue signalling, in my mind, is when people try to put their views on to me at every opportunity.( i've watered this down a bit this from ramming down throats to try and avoid causing offence!).

Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling.

Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything. I've never once come close to saying people taking the knee offends me. No idea where you got that from?

[matty_f]

I think the craziest notion is that those that are apparently the ones virtue signalling are the ones who are brainwashed, when the mass media, the bots on social media, and even the UK government are pushing a massive “anti-woke” right wing agenda.

To reach a point where anti-racist people - activists even - are seen as the problem, where taking the knee is one massive Piers Morgan shaped problem that’s “rammed down our throats” and not the racism would be laughable absurd if it wasn’t so depressing.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why is being actively anti racist virtue signalling?

If people are content to say 'I'm not racist' and go about their lives then fine. Why should someone be belittled, accused of being brainwashed or whatever else for wanting to do a bit more to raise awareness of and actively protest against an issue that is still prevalent in our society?

If people feel uncomfortable or worse if they are genuinely angered by a visible anti racism then that poses a whole load of questions imo.

You're not racist are you?

Do you feel the need to tell people this at every opportunity? Do you ever bring the subject of racism up purely so you can tell people how bad it is?

Being against racism is a good thing, of course it is.

Bumping your gums about it every 5 mins and complaining about people who don't feel so strongly about it as you is the issue.

[matty_f]

You're not racist are you?

Do you feel the need to tell people this at every opportunity? Do you ever bring the subject of racism up purely so you can tell people how bad it is?

Being against racism is a good thing, of course it is.

Bumping your gums about it every 5 mins and complaining about people who don't feel so strongly about it as you is the issue.

Why is being anti-racist an issue, even voicing it frequently?

[WhileTheChief..]

I think the craziest notion is that those that are apparently the ones virtue signalling are the ones who are brainwashed, when the mass media, the bots on social media, and even the UK government are pushing a massive “anti-woke” right wing agenda.

To reach a point where anti-racist people - activists even - are seen as the problem, where taking the knee is one massive Piers Morgan shaped problem that’s “rammed down our throats” and not the racism would be laughable absurd if it wasn’t so depressing.

I’ve already explained about the throat ramming. That was nothing to do with taking the knee.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why is being anti-racist an issue, even voicing it frequently?

Ok maybe it’s not an issue but what are you trying to gain? You really think you’re raising awareness?

Just live your life in a decent way and treat people with respect.

[matty_f]

Ok maybe it’s not an issue but what are you trying to gain? You really think you’re raising awareness?

Just live your life in a decent way and treat people with respect.

What do you think people are doing? Stopping folk on the street to say “Sorry to interrupt your day, I’m not a racist you know?”

People talk about it when it’s relevant to do so, to challenge an opinion out a statement, or a physical act, or to raise awareness of, or show support to anti-racism.

[Pretty Boy]

You're not racist are you?

Do you feel the need to tell people this at every opportunity? Do you ever bring the subject of racism up purely so you can tell people how bad it is?

Being against racism is a good thing, of course it is.

Bumping your gums about it every 5 mins and complaining about people who don't feel so strongly about it as you is the issue.

I don't feel the need to tell people I'm not racist randomly.

I will however challenge racism when I see it. often in situations where previously I wouldn't have because of a sense of social awkwardness. As an example I was in a pub last week and someone in the group made an off hand remark about 'sweating like the proverbial n****r'. I felt I had to say something because not doing so is tacit approval and facilitates the behaviour. Of course it was awkward but it wasn't virtue signalling, it was standing up to something that is, by any reasonable standards, wrong. I also made it clear i wasn't amused with the other couple of people in the group who sat in silence whilst I spoke up.

Frankly I don't really understand people who don't feel strongly about racism. It's just so obviously wrong and motivated by ignorance.

[TAHibby]

These issues don't affect me so I would rather I didn't have to hear about them all the time. It makes me very uncomfortable at the mere thought that not everyone has it like I do. Stop ramming it down my throat, I don't want to have to think about it, it's not fair that you push these agendas on me and make me think about them

[Vault Boy]

Ok maybe it’s not an issue but what are you trying to gain? You really think you’re raising awareness?

Just live your life in a decent way and treat people with respect.

This thread is about kneeling in football.

How is that disrespectful? Or pushy? It’s about the most passive and nondisruptive form of anti-racism activism that exists in the mainstream - yet a couple of folk are still on this thread voicing descent about ‘virtue signalling’.

Nothing is being pushed down anyones throat lol.

[CropleyWasGod]

These issues don't affect me so I would rather I didn't have to hear about them all the time. It makes me very uncomfortable at the mere thought that not everyone has it like I do. Stop ramming it down my throat, I don't want to have to think about it, it's not fair that you push these agendas on me and make me think about them

🙂

[hibby rae]

Ok I'm not talking about taking the knee here, I was responding to your point about virtue signalling in general.

I'm happy to accept that you aren't racist. I'd hope you can extend me the same courtesy.

This next bit is not directed at you..

Virtue signalling, in my mind, is when people try to put their views on to me at every opportunity.( i've watered this down a bit this from ramming down throats to try and avoid causing offence!).

Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling.

Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything. I've never once come close to saying people taking the knee offends me. No idea where you got that from?

From your perspective, but you and I both have quite privileged perspectives in society, so it's important to listen, understand, an acknowledge the perspective of those who historically and currently experience discrimination. If a person who has been a victim of racism saw it it might, for a tiny moment, let them know that others support them.

When I said being part of the problem, we all know the adage about not saying anything. Not recognising the issues, but instead complaining about those those acknowledge them etc. Falling for the whole nonsense about woke and culture wars, instead of recognising the actual issues that can affect those in society and not the illusory ones.

Silence can be complicity, it's a sad fact of life.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't feel the need to tell people I'm not racist randomly.

I will however challenge racism when I see it. often in situations where previously I wouldn't have because of a sense of social awkwardness. As an example I was in a pub last week and someone in the group made an off hand remark about 'sweating like the proverbial n****r'. I felt I had to say something because not doing so is tacit approval and facilitates the behaviour. Of course it was awkward but it wasn't virtue signalling, it was standing up to something that is, by any reasonable standards, wrong. I also made it clear i wasn't amused with the other couple of people in the group who sat in silence whilst I spoke up.

Frankly I don't really understand people who don't feel strongly about racism. It's just so obviously wrong and motivated by ignorance.

I agree with every word here.

I’m going to add to it though!!

If, and I’m not saying you would or do do this, but IF you told that same story every week on here, and wrote to the EEN about it, and talked about it every time we got together in the pub, then you’re virtue signalling!!

That’s the only thing I’ve “got an issue” with.

If you don’t do these things then we’re in full agreement.

[Brightside]

These issues don't affect me so I would rather I didn't have to hear about them all the time. It makes me very uncomfortable at the mere thought that not everyone has it like I do. Stop ramming it down my throat, I don't want to have to think about it, it's not fair that you push these agendas on me and make me think about them

Well as long as you are ok. Its not fair?

[JeMeSouviens]

Well as long as you are ok. Its not fair?

Not sure if you've been whooshed or I've been double whooshed at this point? :dunno:

[hibby rae]

I agree with every word here.

I’m going to add to it though!!

If, and I’m not saying you would or do do this, but IF you told that same story every week on here, and wrote to the EEN about it, and talked about it every time we got together in the pub, then you’re virtue signalling!!

That’s the only thing I’ve “got an issue” with.

If you don’t do these things then we’re in full agreement.

I don't think anyone does those that.

So you only seem to have an issue with a hypothetical situation?

[RIP]

Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling. Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

We get it. You're not impressed by people putting a BLM poster up in their window. Are you aware that if you live near Easter Road, putting a poster in your window can actually put your family at risk? https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-author-furious-after-6ft-pole-thrown-through-childs-bedroom-window-2938716


I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything.

For somebody who claims not to take offence easily you seem to have no difficulty reeling off the favourite insults for liberals adopted by right-wing conservatives, Trump fans, Katie Hopkins and EDL-types. How very open-minded.:wink:

[bigwheel]

Ok I'm not talking about taking the knee here, I was responding to your point about virtue signalling in general.

I'm happy to accept that you aren't racist. I'd hope you can extend me the same courtesy.

This next bit is not directed at you..

Virtue signalling, in my mind, is when people try to put their views on to me at every opportunity.( i've watered this down a bit this from ramming down throats to try and avoid causing offence!).

Putting a poster in your bedroom window saying Black Lives Matter for example. This serves zero purpose other than to show people how good you think you are. It does nothing to raise awareness of anything. Hence, virtue signalling.

Going by another poster's response, anyone who doesn't have a Black Lives Matter poster in their window is part of the problem!! I don't, and will never, accept that line of thought.

I'm not a sensitive, woke, snowflake so I rarely take offence at anything. I've never once come close to saying people taking the knee offends me. No idea where you got that from?

It’s interesting your window poster point . And I say that as someone who has never done this …but I see this as brave . Being so public about one’s support for equality can provoke a response against your views . I don’t see it as a “look at how good I am” at all

[WhileTheChief..]

We get it. You're not impressed by people putting a BLM poster up in their window. Are you aware that if you live near Easter Road, putting a poster in your window can actually put your family at risk? https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-author-furious-after-6ft-pole-thrown-through-childs-bedroom-window-2938716



For somebody who claims not to take offence easily you seem to have no difficulty reeling off the favourite insults for liberals adopted by right-wing conservatives, Trump fans, Katie Hopkins and EDL-types. How very open-minded.:wink:

I'm not aware of insulting anyone, but if I have, sorry.

[jacomo]

I had a Black Lives Matter poster in the front window of my house for about a month last year.

It was a hand drawn design by my 13 yr old daughter, who’d been learning about the civil rights movement at school and inspired to show her support. Of course her world view is a bit naive - she’s barely a teenager - but I’m proud of her for showing a wider interest in the world and happy to support her.

Of course I now realise my mistake. I should have put the poster straight in the bin and lectured her about ‘ramming her opinions down peoples throats’.

[WhileTheChief..]

I had a Black Lives Matter poster in the front window of my house for about a month last year.

It was a hand drawn design by my 13 yr old daughter, who’d been learning about the civil rights movement at school and inspired to show her support. Of course her world view is a bit naive - she’s barely a teenager - but I’m proud of her for showing a wider interest in the world and happy to support her.

Of course I now realise my mistake. I should have put the poster straight in the bin and lectured her about ‘ramming her opinions down peoples throats’.

Aw c’mon, you know fine well you did the right thing, why include that last sentence?

Nobody is taking issue with school kids doing school project stuff!!!

[WeeRussell]

Aw c’mon, you know fine well you did the right thing, why include that last sentence?

Nobody is taking issue with school kids doing school project stuff!!!

Cool. What is the age limit before these things serve no purpose and become pure virtue signalling?

There’s a lass up the road of me and she’s of driving age, and not sure whether I should continue approving of the BLM sign she’s got in her window or not?

I find it quite encouraging to see younger members of society making an effort and speaking out where others have failed before.

[Hibbyradge]

If it annoys racists, it should be done at every opportunity.

[jacomo]

Aw c’mon, you know fine well you did the right thing, why include that last sentence?

Nobody is taking issue with school kids doing school project stuff!!!


There are of course ‘virtue signallers’ in life - or, rather, people who say or do something primarily to boost their perceived status - but to dismiss everyone who supports a particular cause as such is disrespectful imo.

As a kid, I remember neighbours who made a big show of going to church every Sunday… the virtue signallers of their time. It doesn’t follow that everyone or indeed the majority of people who went to church were self-promoting pricks though.

[hibby rae]

There are of course ‘virtue signallers’ in life - or, rather, people who say or do something primarily to boost their perceived status - but to dismiss everyone who supports a particular cause as such is disrespectful imo.

As a kid, I remember neighbours who made a big show of going to church every Sunday… the virtue signallers of their time. It doesn’t follow that everyone or indeed the majority of people who went to church were self-promoting pricks though.

A good example from recent times is all the Tories etc. whi stood applauding key workers during lockdown. However, when it comes to meaningfully supporting them they go the opposite way and attack them as greedy etc.

The irony of this is they, and their followers, are the ones who complain the most about virtue signalling.

[WhileTheChief..]

There are of course ‘virtue signallers’ in life - or, rather, people who say or do something primarily to boost their perceived status - but to dismiss everyone who supports a particular cause as such is disrespectful imo.

As a kid, I remember neighbours who made a big show of going to church every Sunday… the virtue signallers of their time. It doesn’t follow that everyone or indeed the majority of people who went to church were self-promoting pricks though.

All fair points and fairly made.

Taken on board :aok:

[Kato]

If it annoys racists, it should be done at every opportunity.The only way to turn a racist into a non-racist is education. So every opportunity for me as well, but not "going on" about every 5 minutes helps, that would just be crazy as no one does that.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

The only way to turn a racist into a non-racist is education. So every opportunity for me as well, but not "going on" about every 5 minutes helps, that would just be crazy as no one does that.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Let’s be completely honest here. The proliferation of the term ‘virtue signalling’ is just a device to get anti racists to shut up. If you’re opposed to racism and are active about it (like the examples of the BLM poster in the daughters bedroom or the challenging of the N word in the pub), and you’re accused of VSing, you have a choice. You can argue the toss about whether it’s a good idea to not be a racist until you’re blue in the face, or you can accept the whole thing is meaningless and not a genuine attempt to engage. Ive started to prefer the latter strategy. We all know what’s really going in.

[WhileTheChief..]

Let’s be completely honest here. The proliferation of the term ‘virtue signalling’ is just a device to get anti racists to shut up. If you’re opposed to racism and are active about it (like the examples of the BLM poster in the daughters bedroom or the challenging of the N word in the pub), and you’re accused of VSing, you have a choice. You can argue the toss about whether it’s a good idea to not be a racist until you’re blue in the face, or you can accept the whole thing is meaningless and not a genuine attempt to engage. Ive started to prefer the latter strategy. We all know what’s really going in.

I don't think we do.There's 'nothing going on'. If there is, tell us so we can look out for it.

I'm guessing you mean anyone that talks about the issue of virtue signalling is just using that as an excuse or something to be racist?

Just come out and say it if that's what you think.

For my part, i don't feel strongly enough about the subject. That makes me part of the problem apparently. I'd say i'm the same as the vast majority of the population. A normal, decent person that treats others with respect irrespective of race or religion or anything else.

Nobody is saying 'anti-racists' should shut up either. Or not that i've seen on here.

And absolutely nobody has ever tried to argue that not being a racist is a good idea. You literally made that up. Why? It serves no purpose.

[nonshinyfinish]

And absolutely nobody has ever tried to argue that not being a racist is a good idea.

You might need to re-read that one.

[jacomo]

All fair points and fairly made.

Taken on board :aok:


:aok:

Peace and love mate.

[patlowe]

It’s interesting your window poster point . And I say that as someone who has never done this …but I see this as brave . Being so public about one’s support for equality can provoke a response against your views . I don’t see it as a “look at how good I am” at all

Totally agree with this. I am fully supportive of BLM and many causes that some would describe as "woke" but I would be very wary of making a public show of it due to an increasingly vocal and vociferous section of society that seems intent on quashing or undermining any movement or act of protest seeking to promote equality, sustainability, human rights etc. So yes, I think it is brave to speak up in the face of that and in the current climate, not virtue signalling.