60 minute stop clock needed?

[Hibbyradge]

The St Johnstone thread got me researching about the time the ball is actually in play during games.

I seem to recall that the Sunday Post used to publish figures for each match and that sometimes it was less than 40 minutes.

I had a quick search and I found a Reddit post saying that a fairly recent Motherwell v Sevco game only had 51 minutes of actual play so I might not be too far off the mark.

The link below takes you to an article listing the average times for each EPL team. In this season's Premier League, the average 'ball in play' time is 55 minutes and three seconds - the lowest it has been in over a decade. with Villa being bottom with only 52 minutes play.

So, as the article asks, should we adopt a timing system like basketball or American Football?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

[.Sean.]

If that’s the case where the hell do referees pluck three minutes of stoppage time from :confused:

[Hibbyradge]

FWIW, I would support that change. It would cut out time wasting immediately and would get a fairer deal for their money.

[Silky]

The St Johnstone thread got me researching about the time the ball is actually in play during games.

I seem to recall that the Sunday Post used to publish figures for each match and that sometimes it was less than 40 minutes.

I had a quick search and I found a Reddit post saying that a fairly recent Motherwell v Sevco game only had 51 minutes of actual play.

The link below takes you to an article listing the average times for each EPL team. In this season's Premier League, the average 'ball in play' time is 55 minutes and three seconds - the lowest it has been in over a decade. with Villa being bottom with only 52 minutes play.

So, as the article asks, should we adopt a timing system like basketball or American Football?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61342349

I've heard some discussions on this before I think it's worth trying. The amount of time wasting is absolutely killing the game and, with referees clearly unwilling to do anything about it then this is probably the way to go. Fans pay to watch football, not some guys lying on the deck every 5 mins.

[Hibbyradge]

If that’s the case where the hell do referees pluck three minutes of stoppage time from :confused:

Exactly.

[Unseen work]

As much as yesterday frustrated me if we’re winning next Sunday against hearts I’ll be wanting us to do the exact same 😅

Think a 60 minute clock would be decent overall though and would see teams actually just playing football and forget about the nonsense

[Hibs4185]

I think football could learn a lot of things from rugby. Stopping the clock for one during injuries etc and allowing the physio on whilst allowing play to continue.

The amount of time wasting with ‘injuries’ is infuriating!

[Keith_M]

How about the referees yellow carding quite obvious play acting?

Let's face it, it's usually the same suspects so can't be too hard to identify.

[JimBHibees]

I've heard some discussions on this before I think it's worth trying. The amount of time wasting is absolutely killing the game and, with referees clearly unwilling to do anything about it then this is probably the way to go. Fans pay to watch football, not some guys lying on the deck every 5 mins.

Totally agree the recent Morton and St Johnstone games both with the same referee showed just how much can be ripped out the clock in a game. Should be stopped immediately a player starts screaming and rolling about. Absolutely no doubt St Johnstone played up because they watched how little Anderson dealt with the play acting in the Morton match.

[Mikey_1875]

I would definitely be interested in seeing it trialled. I think I heard on the Friday night game that refs in the EFL have been instructed to crack down on time wasting so hopefully that will make a difference.

In defence of the refs it will be hard for them to do much about the injury time-wasting side of things as undoubtedly one ref would mistake a genuine injury for a false one and open up another can of worms. They should certainly be booking players for slow play as the full amount of time wasted simply doesn’t get added on at the end.

The second half yesterday was barely a game of football and I would be embarrassed if Hibs were to ever act like that in a similar situation.

[danhibees1875]

If that’s the case where the hell do referees pluck three minutes of stoppage time from :confused:

It's in the rules; unless something peculiar happens you get 1 minute at half time, then 3 at the end - 5 if rangers need a goal.

[Hibbyradge]

How about the referees yellow carding quite obvious play acting?

Let's face it, it's usually the same suspects so can't be too hard to identify.

That's impossible, unfortunately.

I was annoyed at Porteous yesterday for his horizontal triple Salchow yesterday when he got knocked in the face. That was playacting even if he he wasn't time wasting because as soon as it was clear that the referee wasn't going to take any action, he was on his feet, back to normal with no treatment needed.

Now I can't prove that he wasn't badly hurt, and I'm sure some posters will tell me that he wasn't exaggerating, so although I thought he obviously was at it, I wouldn't be able to justify booking him.

Same applies to all the time wasters.

[H18 SFR]

I honestly think until referees start adding 10/15+ mins nothing at all will change.

See to be honest, I don’t think Scottish refs have the appetite to make a stand against time wasters so it’s a pointless discussion.

[OldEast]

As it's difficult for referees to judge if a player is play acting or really injured I fully support stopping the clock. I'd also introduce a sin bin for yellow card infringements.

[AltheHibby]

As it's difficult for referees to judge if a player is play acting or really injured I fully support stopping the clock. I'd also introduce a sin bin for yellow card infringements.

Simple test: is he rolling about squealing? Faking it.

When players are really injured they tend to just lie there.

[Bostonhibby]

If that’s the case where the hell do referees pluck three minutes of stoppage time from :confused:Time added on in these circumstances depends on how sevco are doing at the time.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[brog]

I think football could learn a lot of things from rugby. Stopping the clock for one during injuries etc and allowing the physio on whilst allowing play to continue.

The amount of time wasting with ‘injuries’ is infuriating!

There's some good things about rugby but the clock business has gone way over the top IMO. International games are now lasting nearly 2 hours instead of 80 minutes. That's just about enough time for 2 scrums!

[Eyrie]

The 60 minutes proposal makes sense because we'd see the same amount of football.

However teams would still "timewaste" when the clock is stopped simply to break up the rhythm of the game.

[Eyrie]

There's some good things about rugby but the clock business has gone way over the top IMO. International games are now lasting nearly 2 hours instead of 80 minutes. That's just about enough time for 2 scrums!

Mainly to do with the overuse of the TMO. As I've said before about VAR, if it isn't clear and obvious on the first viewing, then stick with the referee's decision. Maybe restrict the number of times each angle can be reviewed.

I agree that re-set scrums are a separate frustration.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Time wasting on an industrial scale like I’d never seen since Cyprus V Scotland back in the day…

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What was their keeper doing in the second half? Thought it was part of a water break but he or others didn’t take water - farce and when they’re all at it needs a firm hand by the ref. Nowhere to be seen yesterday.

havung said that at the end Marshall threw the ball back asking for another before taking a GK but that was after all their antics.

[007]

As much as yesterday frustrated me if we’re winning next Sunday against hearts I’ll be wanting us to do the exact same 😅

Think a 60 minute clock would be decent overall though and would see teams actually just playing football and forget about the nonsense

If we're winning against Hearts we could just go into Maloney Mode and keep possession in our own half. At least that's a legitimate way of running down the clock.

[Jamesie]

I think football could learn a lot of things from rugby. Stopping the clock for one during injuries etc and allowing the physio on whilst allowing play to continue.

The amount of time wasting with ‘injuries’ is infuriating!

Was coming on to say exactly this. I can’t see any argument against it tbh.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

On this specific aspect, I’m not too sure that stopping the clock would stop break the flow unless there was a restart clock so that play must resume within X seconds. I’d see that being carnage despite seeing the value of the initiative.

[007]

On this specific aspect, I’m not too sure that stopping the clock would stop break the flow unless there was a restart clock so that play must resume within X seconds. I’d see that being carnage despite seeing the value of the initiative.

That would be a play clock like in American Football.

[hibbyfraelibby]

How about a player, treated or not, having to leave the pitch after an injury staying off the pitch for the equivalent amount of time the game was stopped for?

If the injury was as a result of a bookable offence the player booked goes into a sin bin for the same length of time and if a Red Card offence a nominated player from the side serves the binning?

[Hibbyradge]

That's just about enough time for 2 scrums!

:hilarious

[BlackSheep]

There’s subtle time wasting and then there’s the blatant ****housery that’s crept into the game in Scotland.

The former needs the officials to start carding players for it… GK’s taking forever to place the ball for free kicks or goal kicks, pretending not to know where the ball is despite ball boys throwing a new one straight at them… these are the nines that really annoy me.

Sometimes I watch the refs at goal kicks and most of them turn their back on the ball during that point in play… to the point that I suspect they do that so they can argue they don’t see the time wasting.

The refs are complicit to this and need to be told to come down hard on it to put a stop to it ruining our game.

[BlackSheep]

Also players standing in front of free kicks… by the latter of the law is a yellow card… very rarely see it these days.

[CL0762]

As much as yesterday frustrated me if we’re winning next Sunday against hearts I’ll be wanting us to do the exact same 😅

Think a 60 minute clock would be decent overall though and would see teams actually just playing football and forget about the nonsense

Not for me, from 85/86 on the clock to manage the game out I understand it.

Not from minute 1, they were at it for the entirety of the game yesterday & it was actually brutal to watch.

[percy veer]

Not for me, from 85/86 on the clock to manage the game out I understand it.

Not from minute 1, they were at it for the entirety of the game yesterday & it was actually brutal to watch.

It was brutal to watch ,my 2 kids were getting bored of it aswell, they are trained to go down at every corner holding their face , just watch every game they play , wouldn't have game them the ball back in the second half it's up to the ref to stop the game

[Northernhibee]

I’d rather see my team relegated than watch that week in, week out. Completely disrespectful to their own fans.

[CL0762]

It was brutal to watch ,my 2 kids were getting bored of it aswell, they are trained to go down at every corner holding their face , just watch every game they play , wouldn't have game them the ball back in the second half it's up to the ref to stop the game

You’d be as well doing away with corners and attacking free kicks, it seems as if all they have to do is hit the deck and the whistle gets blown.

Giving them the ball back pissed me off as well, they kicked it out so we should play on.

[BlackSheep]

Hopefully VAR can sort this out…. A few cards for simulation and time wasting and it should start to curb it.

[madhatter]

Time wasting isn't solely about wasting time though, it is about breaking up the flow of play. So not sure if making the match shorter and stopping the clock when ball is not in play helps with this. Teams will still feign injury when they are under relentless pressure.

Teams will just time waste in other ways as well. Run the ball into corners or just pass it around the back. They'll kick the ball out the stadium if it gives their defence a breather. Stopping clock makes no difference to that.

[Victor]

It makes you wonder what a St.Johnstone training session is like. Is the manager the one who is instructing his players to fall down, do they practice dropping and rolling techniques? Is it something specifically encouraged at St. Johnstone, or do all players have it in them. Personally if I was a manager I would fine or refuse to play players who behaved like the St. Johnstone team yesterday.

[hibee-boys]

Something that last needs sorted is the amount of free kicks awarded to the defensive team at corners/free kicks. To me it seems as easy cop out for a referee when there’s a coming together on the box. How often are penalties awarded to the attacking team, it can be that 90% of fouls committed in these situations are made by the attacking side. Hopefully VAR helps with this but I very much doubt it🤷🏼

[villager]

A specific official solely managing a 2 half 30/35 minute ball in play visible to all clock would be as positive an improvement as eliminating the Goalkeeper back pass. The back pass change for me was the birth of the truly modern era of football.

[Bristolhibby]

If that’s the case where the hell do referees pluck three minutes of stoppage time from :confused:

Suppose goal kicks, corners and throw ins are just part of the game, as are free kicks.

J

[007]

It'll probably take a minnow team St Johnstoning their way to winning a World Cup, Euro Cup or Champions League before FIFA/UEFA do a sensible rule change to deal with blatant time wasting.

[Mibbes Aye]

If that’s the case where the hell do referees pluck three minutes of stoppage time from :confused:


It's in the rules; unless something peculiar happens you get 1 minute at half time, then 3 at the end - 5 if rangers need a goal.


Suppose goal kicks, corners and throw ins are just part of the game, as are free kicks.

J

I think the first and foremost consideration is offsetting time taken up for substitutions, then everything else.

[Carheenlea]

Players going down feigning fouls/injury is a consequence of going too far in determining what is deemed a foul. The rate it’s going we are heading towards the game being a non contact sport.

Slightest contact and players are down and referees blow the whistle. Hard challenge to win ball - out comes the whistle again.

Maybe need to consider rolling back to allow more physical contact and tackling that is more than just nicking the ball away. As has been pointed out, the amount of corners that are blown up for a “foul” during games now is increasing tenfold.

[number9dream]

Macey was pretty bad for time wasting, which was a bit embarrassing. The Livingston keeper was booked on Saturday after a warning.
I wonder what the difference is with minutes in play in the women's game where there are far fewer fouls?

[matty_f]

Time wasting isn't solely about wasting time though, it is about breaking up the flow of play. So not sure if making the match shorter and stopping the clock when ball is not in play helps with this. Teams will still feign injury when they are under relentless pressure.

Teams will just time waste in other ways as well. Run the ball into corners or just pass it around the back. They'll kick the ball out the stadium if it gives their defence a breather. Stopping clock makes no difference to that.

That’s spot on, they do it to disrupt the flow of the game and they’ll use every trick in the book to do it. A stop clock wouldn’t fix that issue.

I’m not sure what would, though.

[McSwanky]

I think I time clock would help with, but not completely solve, the issue. I'm all for trying it in principle.

I also think that slow substitutions need dealt with - there should be a strict rule that if the player to be substituted isn't off the pitch in 10 seconds, the player coming on gets booked.

Feigning injury would still be a problem, but surely there are ways of minimising that. Remember when players had to go off the pitch if they had received treatment? How about a mandatory 2 minutes off the pitch if you've been 'injured' for more than 1 minute? Could be dressed up as a welfare issue, but also used as a deterrent.

There needs to be a wee bit of creative thinking applied here, I feel like these types of things could be stamped out pretty quickly if strict time limits are applied, with retrospective punishment dealt out if they're not caught on the day.

[seanshow]

The game lasts 90 mins, why are we having a 60 Minute stopwatch and not a 90, let's make these players work for a change, they get paid enough for relatively little effort as it is. :rolleyes:

[007]

That’s spot on, they do it to disrupt the flow of the game and they’ll use every trick in the book to do it. A stop clock wouldn’t fix that issue.

I’m not sure what would, though.

It could be fixed by stronger officials that punish "injured" players that roll back onto the pitch etc. and what happened to the rules like leaving the pitch at the nearest point, the 6 second rule for goalkeepers, bookings for blocking free kicks by standing a foot from the ball, injured players getting treated off the pitch while the match continues?

Official have played a large part in it getting so bad and also for the general standard of the game by turning a blind eye to the dark arts, meaning only 2 or 3 teams actually try to play football properly.

Pundits could help by calling out players for playacting in the same way they love to highlight a dive for a penalty or a red card challenge that was missed. Much of the time wasting antics is embarrassing, players doing it should be made to feel embarrased for their behaviour.

[wookie70]

I would combine a 60 minute play period with a team foul penalty. A clock would stop as soon as the ref blew there whistle for the ball being out of play or play stopped. I would order refs to enforce rules that make the game better such as the already mentioned standing in front of free kicks. I also think there should be a team foul system where either a player is lost for a period of time or a penalty or one on one with the keeper from halfway line is awarded after a certain number of fouls. Football is pretty much worse to watch every year with all the cheating and mind numbing tactics of square passing. Anything that can be done to make it more entertaining would be welcomed by me.

[Purple & Green]

FWIW, I would support that change. It would cut out time wasting immediately and would get a fairer deal for their money.

I think 60 minute game clock would be good, but I don’t think it would fundamentally change a game. The time wasting tactics are about breaking up your opponents flow as well as running down the clock, and I think the tactics would become more nuanced to run down a game clock as well as breaking up the flow. Every team does it when they are ahead, even us.

What I’ve thought we’ve longed needed as a club is coaching specifically geared to overcoming this in the last ten minutes of a game when you are behind and the opponent is trying to keep ball.

Some clubs are really good at chasing a game in the closing minutes - Real Madrid spring to mind, but also Man City and Liverpool.

I think in the recent past we’ve been dull and uninspired when needing a late goal. Hopefully Saturday was a sign things are changing.

[WhileTheChief..]

If this match had been in March or April and we'd seen loads of games with it happening, then I could see the point in having the discussion.

As it is, it's a one off. No other games were like this at the weekend, so to want to change the the entire game feels like a bit of an over reaction.

There will be plenty of games this season where we'll be happy to run down the clock or break up the play.

We just needs the refs to be more aware of it and take the appropriate action.

[WhileTheChief..]

It could be fixed by stronger officials that punish "injured" players that roll back onto the pitch etc. and what happened to the rules like leaving the pitch at the nearest point, the 6 second rule for goalkeepers, bookings for blocking free kicks by standing a foot from the ball, injured players getting treated off the pitch while the match continues?

Official have played a large part in it getting so bad and also for the general standard of the game by turning a blind eye to the dark arts, meaning only 2 or 3 teams actually try to play football properly.

Pundits could help by calling out players for playacting in the same way they love to highlight a dive for a penalty or a red card challenge that was missed. Much of the time wasting antics is embarrassing, players doing it should be made to feel embarrased for their behaviour.

I regularly red that refs are as bad as we've ever had!! Are you meaning that year on year they are getting worse?

I know nobody will agree, but I think refs now are the best they've ever been. When were these halcyon days that folk hark back to when refs were awesome??!!

They're under way more scrutiny than ever before and do a pretty damn fine job, all things considered.

Dark arts?? Only 2 or 3 teams in our league try to play football??

[LewysGot2]

One of my mates is a physio. He can tell from the approach of the so called "injured player's" treatment from team physios if they're at it or not. He'll call bull **** when he sees them pretending to treat an imaginary injury. It happens far too often.


The going down with a pretendy head knock is the worst carry on. They know it has to get the game stopped. I remember one game last season where 3 players from an opposition team all went down with head knocks at the same time. They must've forgotten whose turn it was

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I think 60 minute game clock would be good, but I don’t think it would fundamentally change a game. The time wasting tactics are about breaking up your opponents flow as well as running down the clock, and I think the tactics would become more nuanced to run down a game clock as well as breaking up the flow. Every team does it when they are ahead, even us.

What I’ve thought we’ve longed needed as a club is coaching specifically geared to overcoming this in the last ten minutes of a game when you are behind and the opponent is trying to keep ball.

Some clubs are really good at chasing a game in the closing minutes - Real Madrid spring to mind, but also Man City and Liverpool.

I think in the recent past we’ve been dull and uninspired when needing a late goal. Hopefully Saturday was a sign things are changing.

yup no point in having superior fitness if we’re not gonna use it… hopefully we’ve also got the makings of more creative players to find a way to unlock the blanket defences. St Johnstone deary me!

[jacomo]

Time wasting isn't solely about wasting time though, it is about breaking up the flow of play. So not sure if making the match shorter and stopping the clock when ball is not in play helps with this. Teams will still feign injury when they are under relentless pressure.

Teams will just time waste in other ways as well. Run the ball into corners or just pass it around the back. They'll kick the ball out the stadium if it gives their defence a breather. Stopping clock makes no difference to that.


:confused:

Running down the clock while the ball is in play is totally legitimate though??

That’s what England were doing last night v Germany, holding the ball in the corner. There’s a skill to that and it can be oddly captivating… that’s not the same thing as being discussed here.