Hibernian Supporters / HSL - Transfer window

[IberianHibernian]

Can anyone from HSL ( Hibernian Supporters ) clarify present situation ? Transfer window has just opened , most STHs seem to have renewed , more people will renew or buy new STs before league starts in August , folk will buy League Cup tickets and buy new shirts and lottery tickets .
Until a few months ago , club was receiving nearly 20k per month but think that was stopped till club plans became clearer . Is it still the case that HS is not handing over money to club ? Can`t see anything on HS website but seem to remember reading about change to use of donations . Still a long time in transfer window to go , so suppose any donations would be useful .
Also is there an option to pay by transfer if Paypal not preferred ?
Apologies for starting new thread but thought with transfer window just having started it might be better .

[Daniel 1875]

Following the recent AGM the decision was made to stop handing over monthly contributions.

With the changes to the articles of association members can now guide the direction we take, but it was decided at the AGM that handing over money every month for nothing in return wasn’t the way the membership wanted to continue.

We don’t take payments by PayPal unfortunately but GoCardless (bank account payments) and Stripe (credit/debit card payments) both work in similar ways.

The AGM reiterated the commitment to supporting the club in various ways going forward and we’ll consult with members before any further decisions are made.

Any questions please let me/us know.

[Allant1981]

Wnat do you mean handing over money with nothing in return, shares?

[Big_Franck]

Following the recent AGM the decision was made to stop handing over monthly contributions.

With the changes to the articles of association members can now guide the direction we take, but it was decided at the AGM that handing over money every month for nothing in return wasn’t the way the membership wanted to continue.

We don’t take payments by PayPal unfortunately but GoCardless (bank account payments) and Stripe (credit/debit card payments) both work in similar ways.

The AGM reiterated the commitment to supporting the club in various ways going forward and we’ll consult with members before any further decisions are made.

Any questions please let me/us know.

I'm a full member but I've not received anything querying how I want the money to be spent going forward. I'd be quite happy to give the money to the club every month, otherwise what am I paying money to HSL every month for? If they've not been handing over the money for several months there must be a decent amount of money sitting there.

[CentreLine]

Wnat do you mean handing over money with nothing in return, shares?

I guess it would not be unreasonable for the largest “sponsor” and second largest shareholder to have a place on the board?

[Allant1981]

I guess it would not be unreasonable for the largest “sponsor” and second largest shareholder to have a place on the board?

Do we have other sponsors on the board? Do we let the 3rd and 4th biggest shareholder have a seat? Im all for fan engagement but where does it stop

[Daniel 1875]

Wnat do you mean handing over money with nothing in return, shares?

For the last two years all Hibernian Supporters contributions were passed to the club by way of donation. This was a temporary change in response to the Covid pandemic and members asking for HS to use its platform to support the club through the difficult period with no fans at games.

The recent AGM made it clear this was not the route members wanted to continue to go down and the decision was made to stop passing funds to the club every month for the time being.

There is some work to do to consult with the wider membership, and the club, to forge a path forward which will satisfy as many people as possible. It’s important we allow members to decide where their money goes and as much as possible make it clear what it’s being spent on.

Prior to the AGM we were unable to hold any funds, making Hibernian Supporters’ 15.4% shareholding in the club potentially vulnerable in the event of a future share issue (some members will remember we have already had our shareholding reduced from around 20% to 15.4% following the 2019 change of ownership). With the changes voted in at the AGM this is now less of a risk.

We need to sit down with the club again and consult the membership as to how members would like to move forward. As ever any communication will come via email to all members.

[superfurryhibby]

For the last two years all Hibernian Supporters contributions were passed to the club by way of donation. This was a temporary change in response to the Covid pandemic and members asking for HS to use its platform to support the club through the difficult period with no fans at games.

The recent AGM made it clear this was not the route members wanted to continue to go down and the decision was made to stop passing funds to the club every month for the time being.

There is some work to do to consult with the wider membership, and the club, to forge a path forward which will satisfy as many people as possible. It’s important we allow members to decide where their money goes and as much as possible make it clear what it’s being spent on.

Prior to the AGM we were unable to hold any funds, making Hibernian Supporters’ 15.4% shareholding in the club potentially vulnerable in the event of a future share issue (some members will remember we have already had our shareholding reduced from around 20% to 15.4% following the 2019 change of ownership). With the changes voted in at the AGM this is now less of a risk.

We need to sit down with the club again and consult the membership as to how members would like to move forward. As ever any communication will come via email to all members.

I was never happy with the dilution in the value of the HSL shareholding or that of the small private shareholders (like myself) at the time of the sale of the club. I don't really understand why this had to happen, but it wasn't part of the deal I entered into whilst handing over my cash to the old board.

If the club want our additional money, they need to recognise and support HSL in a way that is appropriate for what I assume is the second largest shareholding at Hibs. It's a bit of a shame that the rift continues.

[Bostonhibby]

For the last two years all Hibernian Supporters contributions were passed to the club by way of donation. This was a temporary change in response to the Covid pandemic and members asking for HS to use its platform to support the club through the difficult period with no fans at games.

The recent AGM made it clear this was not the route members wanted to continue to go down and the decision was made to stop passing funds to the club every month for the time being.

There is some work to do to consult with the wider membership, and the club, to forge a path forward which will satisfy as many people as possible. It’s important we allow members to decide where their money goes and as much as possible make it clear what it’s being spent on.

Prior to the AGM we were unable to hold any funds, making Hibernian Supporters’ 15.4% shareholding in the club potentially vulnerable in the event of a future share issue (some members will remember we have already had our shareholding reduced from around 20% to 15.4% following the 2019 change of ownership). With the changes voted in at the AGM this is now less of a risk.

We need to sit down with the club again and consult the membership as to how members would like to move forward. As ever any communication will come via email to all members.All makes perfect sense to this member and shareholder, keep up the good work.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Dmas]

I'm a full member but I've not received anything querying how I want the money to be spent going forward. I'd be quite happy to give the money to the club every month, otherwise what am I paying money to HSL every month for? If they've not been handing over the money for several months there must be a decent amount of money sitting there.


I've paused my contributions for this reason, I don't understand what's expected, just going to accumulate members money in case one day there's an opportunity to purchase shares?

during the pandemic I think it was around 20k a month we where passing over so around abouts 140k sitting in HSL now doing no help whatsoever whilst that lot have FoH and dons have their DNA thing all helping the club run.

I understand its a vote and members have decided this is the route to go down but surely we can think of a way we can support the club with these donations, are the club closed off to receiving money from fans?

[Pagan Hibernia]

Do we have other sponsors on the board? Do we let the 3rd and 4th biggest shareholder have a seat? Im all for fan engagement but where does it stop

it shouldn’t stop. The more the better.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I’ve paused my donations because with the cost of living and inflation and the rest of it, that £18.75 per month really is better in my pocket than sitting in HSL’s account waiting for a rainy day.

I’ll no doubt jump back on board when circumstances allow, I always do.

[Rick Rude]

I didn't realise that the payments were not now going to the club (that's on me for not reading my emails). If that's going to continue for long then I'll be stopping my payments as well. I pay £300 a year because I want it going to help improve the club not to sit in a bank account somewhere unused.

[CentreLine]

Do we have other sponsors on the board? Do we let the 3rd and 4th biggest shareholder have a seat? Im all for fan engagement but where does it stop

You can argue with yourself on that one. I only suggest it would not be unreasonable. I am not on the committee of HSL, I am a member, I do own shares in the club but have no axe to grind either way. All I did was offer an answer the the question by a previous poster. If you want an argument, Monty Python used to have a very good solution

[weecounty hibby]

If the club are not seeing any money from my donation at the moment then I'm not sure that I'll continue. I don't want shares for myself and I am content that the fans own enough that we should be OK into the future. If we have stopped passing money onto the club then I don't see why I should continue to contribute to HSL for no benefit to Hibs at the moment. I wanted another route for funds to the club and these donations seemed the best way as no tax is paid on them.

[Stairway 2 7]

Might stop too, as didn't realise it was going to the club. I'm not interested in shares, I just want it to go to the club

Hearts are putting in almost 2 million a year. If we don't start, they will be favourites for 3rd and European group football every year. The huge amount that brings could bring a spiral where we are left behind

[Daniel 1875]

I should clarify, fans have contributed in excess of £250,000 since the start of the pandemic and have gone over and above to ensure the club remains financially strong.

Hibernian Supporters is first and foremost a shareholder, there’s no plan to chase after a load of shares, but after two years of keeping almost none of the funds we have a responsibility to ensure the current shareholding is protected.

Lots of people have worked far harder than me to ensure supporters can collectively own 15.4% of our club and it’s important to make sure that work can’t just be undone with the business in a vulnerable position with a bank balance of £0. It could leave us scrambling to ask supporters for large sums of money in the event of a share issue to protect the 15.4% we currently hold - as mentioned above we’ve already had our fingers burnt with the reduction of our previous holding of nearly 20% being diluted down to the current 15.4%.

The decision was taken at the AGM to temporarily pause contributions to the club. I hope we can get to a position where our website allows members to decide exactly where their £X a month goes.

We are a broad church with supporters with a range of views; some are happy for their money to be passed to the club and for it to be spent how the club see fit, some would prefer to know it was being spent on X or Y, some are passionate about the 15.4% shareholding and protecting that.

No decisions will ever be made without the say so of the members and that’s a principle we have been committed to since day one.

As directors it’s our responsibility to communicate with the club and members to ensure a new, post-Covid and post-share purchase, way forward supports the club and benefits the membership.

[CapitalGreen]

The timing of this seems like a petty response to a difficult season to me. With the post-covid inflationary environment the club are operating which has seen costs increase sharply, the club will arguably still be feeling the effects of the pandemic. It’s nonsensical to me that following a season where Hearts have just boosted their income by about £3m we’ve decided to help them by increasing the gap further by an extra quarter million. What a wasted opportunity HSL has been from start to finish.

[Daniel 1875]

The timing of this seems like a petty response to a difficult season to me. With the post-covid inflationary environment the club are operating which has seen costs increase sharply, the club will arguably still be feeling the effects of the pandemic. It’s nonsensical to me that following a season where Hearts have just boosted their income by about £3m we’ve decided to help them by increasing the gap further by an extra quarter million. What a wasted opportunity HSL has been from start to finish.

I’d really strongly contend your characterisation that anything Hibernian Supporters has done in the last 2.5 years has been petty. Fans committed £250,000 throughout the pandemic, we then had a formal, pre-planned AGM where the decision was taken that it was time to take a step back and reflect on the relationship going forward.

‘From start to finish’ also suggests this is the end of the road or something - that’s certainly not the case.

[chippy]

The timing of this seems like a petty response to a difficult season to me. With the post-covid inflationary environment the club are operating which has seen costs increase sharply, the club will arguably still be feeling the effects of the pandemic. It’s nonsensical to me that following a season where Hearts have just boosted their income by about £3m we’ve decided to help them by increasing the gap further by an extra quarter million. What a wasted opportunity HSL has been from start to finish.

I don’t get your view on HS being petty. These guys are voluntarily giving their time and energy to a Hibs fans group and I for one fully respect and appreciate that. Pausing contributions to the club makes sense to me at this point in time. The owner doesn’t seem that interested in HS and we’ve already had our shareholding diluted. I like the idea of building up a fund because none of us can predict how long our owners will be with us nor how successful they may be. Hopefully they are extremely successful. Comparison with FoH and Hearts are way off the mark. FoH own Hearts, our owner will not offer HS a seat at the table. I think HS are being prudent with our funds. In 2 years we could have in the region of 500k or in 4 years a million. That puts HS in the position of being a player in the future of Hibs.
Thinking more laterally, potentially HS could use some funds to purchase 1) Season tickets for disadvantaged fans unable to afford it 2) Places in one of the Hospitality packages that could be offered to members on a rota basis.

[heid the baw]

I think a step back is sensible as the matter needs a wider discussion and members need suggestions to consider. It is the lack of information to members/clear timescale on this that bothers me.
A 15% shareholder who can also bring a regular stream of extra revenue to the club has to be in a position of strength. The donations during the pandemic will have been invaluable and the owners need to acknowledge that.
HSL are correct to revisit the relationship between the organisation and the board. Personally I favour the money going directly to the club, but we need a voice as well

[hhibs]

I’d really strongly contend your characterisation that anything Hibernian Supporters has done in the last 2.5 years has been petty. Fans committed £250,000 throughout the pandemic, we then had a formal, pre-planned AGM where the decision was taken that it was time to take a step back and reflect on the relationship going forward.

‘From start to finish’ also suggests this is the end of the road or something - that’s certainly not the case.



Just reading some of the posts on this ,HSL is in grave danger of losing ground and goodwill here.

You may not like it but it is pretty clear that to many HSL members the communication and marketing of the scheme ,including the purpose and the timing of the use funds is unclear.

Sadly, I do think has been a problem from the outset and that,I believe,held back many fans from joining HSL.
The worry now,is present members are saying they have or will suspend payments.

I will say I continue to contribute but I am concerned that fellow members are ,if you pardon the expression ,losing heart

Please, do not think this is any kind of personal attack on the work HSL does but a genuine note of real concern.

[CapitalGreen]

I don’t get your view on HS being petty. These guys are voluntarily giving their time and energy to a Hibs fans group and I for one fully respect and appreciate that. Pausing contributions to the club makes sense to me at this point in time. The owner doesn’t seem that interested in HS and we’ve already had our shareholding diluted. I like the idea of building up a fund because none of us can predict how long our owners will be with us nor how successful they may be. Hopefully they are extremely successful. Comparison with FoH and Hearts are way off the mark. FoH own Hearts, our owner will not offer HS a seat at the table. I think HS are being prudent with our funds. In 2 years we could have in the region of 500k or in 4 years a million. That puts HS in the position of being a player in the future of Hibs.
Thinking more laterally, potentially HS could use some funds to purchase 1) Season tickets for disadvantaged fans unable to afford it 2) Places in one of the Hospitality packages that could be offered to members on a rota basis.

In which time our neighbours could have £7-14m in extra income from consistent European qualification.

[CapitalGreen]

I’d really strongly contend your characterisation that anything Hibernian Supporters has done in the last 2.5 years has been petty. Fans committed £250,000 throughout the pandemic, we then had a formal, pre-planned AGM where the decision was taken that it was time to take a step back and reflect on the relationship going forward.

‘From start to finish’ also suggests this is the end of the road or something - that’s certainly not the case.

How many new/renewed donators have signed up post-takeover in the knowledge that no shares would be purchased and the money was to fund the playing budget? In an email dated July 31st 2020, it was stated that there were in excess of 1000 new/renewed donators just in a 6 week period from June 15th, 2020.

If you’ve read any of my previous posts on HSL you will know that I have felt engagement with members has been poor from the outset. Can you confirm what percentage of the membership voted on the resolution to amend the articles?

[brog]

For the last two years all Hibernian Supporters contributions were passed to the club by way of donation. This was a temporary change in response to the Covid pandemic and members asking for HS to use its platform to support the club through the difficult period with no fans at games.

The recent AGM made it clear this was not the route members wanted to continue to go down and the decision was made to stop passing funds to the club every month for the time being.

There is some work to do to consult with the wider membership, and the club, to forge a path forward which will satisfy as many people as possible. It’s important we allow members to decide where their money goes and as much as possible make it clear what it’s being spent on.

Prior to the AGM we were unable to hold any funds, making Hibernian Supporters’ 15.4% shareholding in the club potentially vulnerable in the event of a future share issue (some members will remember we have already had our shareholding reduced from around 20% to 15.4% following the 2019 change of ownership). With the changes voted in at the AGM this is now less of a risk.

We need to sit down with the club again and consult the membership as to how members would like to move forward. As ever any communication will come via email to all members.


Daniel thanks for this information and for your continuing efforts on behalf of HSL and our Club. My caveat is I've been a member of HSL since inception, originally with a one off donation and in last few years by monthly DD. I have not received anything from HSL in years, certainly nothing about the AGM to which you refer. I think there's some membership housekeeping required and like others I would urge you to revisit how best to improve relations with the Club as a matter of urgency. I'll be happy to help in any way.

[PaulSmith]

HSL - why don’t you speak to the club, surely two bodies that have Hibs interests at heart cannot be that far apart in simply agreeing what the right thing to do is for then benefit of all?

When was the last time you sat down with Chris Gaunt?

[May21/05/16]

Daniel I would just like to say that you and other board members are doing a great job and I agreed with the decision to withhold payments to the club


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[PaulSmith]

Daniel I would just like to say that you and other board members are doing a great job and I agreed with the decision to withhold payments to the club


Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

To build up a slush fund should the current owner decide to issue more shares and dilute the current shareholding?

[Daniel 1875]

How many new/renewed donators have signed up post-takeover in the knowledge that no shares would be purchased and the money was to fund the playing budget? In an email dated July 31st 2020, it was stated that there were in excess of 1000 new/renewed donators just in a 6 week period from June 15th, 2020.

If you’ve read any of my previous posts on HSL you will know that I have felt engagement with members has been poor from the outset. Can you confirm what percentage of the membership voted on the resolution to amend the articles?

There was a big surge in contributions following a statement from the club in June 2020 which laid out the implications of the pandemic and the season being curtailed.

At that point the decision was made to hand (almost) all contributions to the club by way of donation - stepping up to act as a responsible shareholder throughout. But that was only ever a temporary change of direction, in the five years prior to the pandemic Hibernian Supporters was never a cash bucket for the club, handing contributions over for little in return.

In the months following the easing of restrictions we held an overdue AGM with members, who were informed by email, on social media and on fans forums, that they were welcome to attend. At that meeting, as per the previous Articles, there was a unanimous vote in favour of altering the Articles of Association.

Since then members have been informed by email of the outcomes of that meeting and we have met with the club to come together to find the best collaborative way forward.

As above, we have taken a temporary step back and will be guided by the views of members going forward. In my view it would be most beneficial to allow each member to choose where his or her contributions are going, allowing everyone to be satisfied that their intentions are being supported.

[Sauerkraut]

The biggest blow to HSL and us members would be any further dilution of the share value. We don't ever want to be reviving HoH, much as they are revered. That's why an interim policy was agreed to build reserves, so as to be ready to counter any hostile moves. Straiton, anyone? One question may be 'should there be a ceiling to this build up'? That is something members could consider and perhaps vote on. Meanwhile, I beg those thinking of coming out to reconsider; HSL intentions are honourable and I applaud their efforts to manage our donations in the most appropriate fashion. Plus I'm sure they would welcome any other functional suggestions.

[Daniel 1875]

HSL - why don’t you speak to the club, surely two bodies that have Hibs interests at heart cannot be that far apart in simply agreeing what the right thing to do is for then benefit of all?

When was the last time you sat down with Chris Gaunt?

We do speak to the club and we are waiting to confirm a date and time to meet them again soon.

We met with Chris Gaunt, Ron Gordon and Ben Kensell when Ron was in Edinburgh last month and hope to meet with them again as soon as is suitable for the club.

[LeithMike]

I should clarify, fans have contributed in excess of £250,000 since the start of the pandemic and have gone over and above to ensure the club remains financially strong.

Hibernian Supporters is first and foremost a shareholder, there’s no plan to chase after a load of shares, but after two years of keeping almost none of the funds we have a responsibility to ensure the current shareholding is protected.

Lots of people have worked far harder than me to ensure supporters can collectively own 15.4% of our club and it’s important to make sure that work can’t just be undone with the business in a vulnerable position with a bank balance of £0. It could leave us scrambling to ask supporters for large sums of money in the event of a share issue to protect the 15.4% we currently hold - as mentioned above we’ve already had our fingers burnt with the reduction of our previous holding of nearly 20% being diluted down to the current 15.4%.

The decision was taken at the AGM to temporarily pause contributions to the club. I hope we can get to a position where our website allows members to decide exactly where their £X a month goes.

We are a broad church with supporters with a range of views; some are happy for their money to be passed to the club and for it to be spent how the club see fit, some would prefer to know it was being spent on X or Y, some are passionate about the 15.4% shareholding and protecting that.

No decisions will ever be made without the say so of the members and that’s a principle we have been committed to since day one.

As directors it’s our responsibility to communicate with the club and members to ensure a new, post-Covid and post-share purchase, way forward supports the club and benefits the membership.I think this is a really good and measured post and a really sensible approach for HSL.

I appreciate people might just want to give money to the club to get a competitive advantage/reduce disadvantage compared with Aberdeen and Hearts but for me it has always been about protecting the long-term future of the club and the journey towards fans having an input into key decisions taken by the club.

I appreciate the steps taken by HSL to pause and think what is best for the long-term.



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[CapitalGreen]

There was a big surge in contributions following a statement from the club in June 2020 which laid out the implications of the pandemic and the season being curtailed.

At that point the decision was made to hand (almost) all contributions to the club by way of donation - stepping up to act as a responsible shareholder throughout. But that was only ever a temporary change of direction, in the five years prior to the pandemic Hibernian Supporters was never a cash bucket for the club, handing contributions over for little in return.

In the months following the easing of restrictions we held an overdue AGM with members, who were informed by email, on social media and on fans forums, that they were welcome to attend. At that meeting, as per the previous Articles, there was a unanimous vote in favour of altering the Articles of Association.

Since then members have been informed by email of the outcomes of that meeting and we have met with the club to come together to find the best collaborative way forward.

As above, we have taken a temporary step back and will be guided by the views of members going forward. In my view it would be most beneficial to allow each member to choose where his or her contributions are going, allowing everyone to be satisfied that their intentions are being supported.

Can you advise on the percentage of members who voted in favour of this change to the articles?

If you are unable to provide that figure, can you provide a rough number of attendees at the AGM and what that would be as a % of the membership?

[superfurryhibby]

To build up a slush fund should the current owner decide to issue more shares and dilute the current shareholding?

Maybe they could just restore the shareholding of HSL and individuals back to the levels they were at before they diluted it on their purchase of the club?

[Daniel 1875]

Daniel thanks for this information and for your continuing efforts on behalf of HSL and our Club. My caveat is I've been a member of HSL since inception, originally with a one off donation and in last few years by monthly DD. I have not received anything from HSL in years, certainly nothing about the AGM to which you refer. I think there's some membership housekeeping required and like others I would urge you to revisit how best to improve relations with the Club as a matter of urgency. I'll be happy to help in any way.

That shouldn’t happen and we’ll get that sorted.

If you can email [email protected] I’ll make sure you’re on the mailing list.

[Stairway 2 7]

Hsl are to be commended and the guys helping. But there needs to be an option pronto for the choice of your funds going to a fighting fund or to the team.

I've no interest in the shares I want my money going into the team. If hsl isn't going to do this and is about shares, hibs need to set up a different club for people who want their money to go into the squad. We could fund a couple of players contracts a season with the money going in and that could be the difference of getting Europe

[CapitalGreen]

Can you advise on the percentage of members who voted in favour of this change to the articles?

If you are unable to provide that figure, can you provide a rough number of attendees at the AGM and what that would be as a % of the membership?

Not sure if you just missed this one Daniel but are you able to answer my question above?

[Daniel 1875]

Not sure if you just missed this one Daniel but are you able to answer my question above?

Apologies. I’m unable to let you know the % of the membership as I’m not sure of the current numbers who have achieved full membership.

We had around 50 people in attendance either in person or voting by proxy at the AGM which is historically pretty standard for those types of meetings.

As said, the decisions to change the Articles of Association were unanimously agreed and will allow Hibernian Supporters to move forward in a way which is more fitting with the current situation and with no shares available.

The decision to temporarily stop contributions was on the understanding that we’d consult with the wider membership (namely those who weren’t at the meeting) and the club on a way forward. And that’s very much still the plan - we are waiting to hear from the club re a suitable time to meet following our sit down when Ron was over.

[heid the baw]

The way I understand it is that once you have donated £225 then you have membership and full voting rights in perpetuity even if you cancel your direct debit on the day the total is reached and decide never to donate another penny. I doubt many have done this but continued contribution has to be attractive. The pandemic clearly motivated people to help out but new thinking is required to hold onto new members and to grow HSL
I think it makes sense for members who have reached £225 to have a choice as to where their continued donations go eg
Player fund, contingency share fund, 50/50 to each

[Daniel 1875]

The way I understand it is that once you have donated £225 then you have membership and full voting rights in perpetuity even if you cancel your direct debit on the day the total is reached and decide never to donate another penny. I doubt many have done this but continued contribution has to be attractive. The pandemic clearly motivated people to help out but new thinking is required to hold onto new members and to grow HSL
I think it makes sense for members who have reached £225 to have a choice as to where their continued donations go eg
Player fund, contingency share fund, 50/50 to each

Speaking personally, that is where I’d like us to get to - logistically it’s possible and given the range of feeling amongst our members (and evidenced in this thread and others) it feels like the right way to go.

[Golden Bear]

I'm not a regular monthly subscriber to HSL but have made contributions via HSL in the past and quite honestly I'm very surprised that the regular subscribers find it acceptable that their donations are in effect "frozen" in a bank account rather than being channelled to Hibernian FC.

Each to their own though.

[JohnM1875]

I'm not a regular monthly subscriber to HSL but have made contributions via HSL in the past and quite honestly I'm very surprised that the regular subscribers find it acceptable that their donations are in effect "frozen" in a bank account rather than being channelled to Hibernian FC.

Each to their own though.

Exactly why I stopped my monthly payment. Was only doing it to get the money directed to the club and now that it isn't I don't see the point. I have no interest in buying shares (which I know isn't an option). But I suppose that's the complexity of HS and having folk agreeing where the contribution should be spent.

Probably need a completely new entity which exactly matches the Hearts and Aberdeen models. I'd definitely make a monthly contribution to something like that.

[Daniel 1875]

Exactly why I stopped my monthly payment. Was only doing it to get the money directed to the club and now that it isn't I don't see the point. I have no interest in buying shares (which I know isn't an option). But I suppose that's the complexity of HS and having folk agreeing where the contribution should be spent.

Probably need a completely new entity which exactly matches the Hearts and Aberdeen models. I'd definitely make a monthly contribution to something like that.

The Hearts and Aberdeen models are two completely different things. Hearts own the club outright and their 8,000+ contributors were doing so to buy the club - now that it's been bought they're continuing to pay in as it's 'theirs'.

The Aberdeen model is a club-run membership scheme like MyGers where there are discounts, shirts, giveaways up for grabs through the club and run by club staff. Because it's controlled by the club it's marketed and managed by the club's salaried, full-time staff.

[JohnM1875]

The Hearts and Aberdeen models are two completely different things. Hearts own the club outright and their 8,000+ contributors were doing so to buy the club - now that it's been bought they're continuing to pay in as it's 'theirs'.

The Aberdeen model is a club-run membership scheme like MyGers where there are discounts, shirts, giveaways up for grabs through the club and run by club staff. Because it's controlled by the club it's marketed and managed by the club's salaried, full-time staff.

Cheers for the reply.

Like I said I do appreciate it must be difficult for HS to come to a fair decision in how the money is used. But for me I was only ever interested in getting my money to the club. And I understand other members won't have any interest in that.

[Daniel 1875]

Cheers for the reply.

Like I said I do appreciate it must be difficult for HS to come to a fair decision in how the money is used. But for me I was only ever interested in getting my money to the club. And I understand other members won't have any interest in that.

I think we have a bit of a split in the sense there are some who are only interested in helping Hibs financially and others who are keen on the other side of things.

As I say, we are committed to consulting with everyone and if there's a suitable way we can support the club and keep as many people as possible happy then we will do it.

[Allant1981]

You can argue with yourself on that one. I only suggest it would not be unreasonable. I am not on the committee of HSL, I am a member, I do own shares in the club but have no axe to grind either way. All I did was offer an answer the the question by a previous poster. If you want an argument, Monty Python used to have a very good solution


Hardly an argument

[Scotty Leither]

I was at the AGM and fully understand the bind HSL finds itself in. I'm no expert on shares/rights issues, but if the owner doesn't want HSL to buy any more shares that's his prerogative - it impacts on the set-up at HSL as Daniel has explained above though, as that was the original function of HSL to mitigate against the possibility of another Mercer scenario.

I would urge anyone not to stop contributing though, because that's ultimately self-defeating; the club IMO needs to be more forthcoming as to how they now see the role of HSL in the future - we keep hearing about how media-savvy and how driven our commercial team is doing with regard to the new hospitality areas (which look the business, and i'm one of many that have signed up for that too), so it can't be beyond the wit of HSL and the club to find common ground on this, yet the club seem strangely reticent to engage.

Lastly, I think the club could gain themselves a bit of traction and kudos by having one rep from HSL on the Board, they are after all the 2nd biggest shareholder and might bring some fresh ideas to the table, as there appears to be a surfeit of Board members from the old regime still hanging about.

[green day]

I think we have a bit of a split in the sense there are some who are only interested in helping Hibs financially and others who are keen on the other side of things.

As I say, we are committed to consulting with everyone and if there's a suitable way we can support the club and keep as many people as possible happy then we will do it.

I appreciate there is "another side" from my preference which is - just send the cash to the club.

But.............on the basis that we wont be increasing the HSL shareholding (as Ron aint for diluting his) then imo HSL in its current guise has perhaps run its course.

I still contribute monthly, have done since the beginning, but to be honest this feels like we are in purgatory - neither here not there - and its not doing HSL any good.

We really need this to be resolved one way or the other - and if that means that HSL stays as it is with the 15% holding, and another vehicle emerges (with club backing, I would hope) to send money to the club then so be it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Can we have a poll here, I'm sure it will get more votes than the official vote.

As for hearts scheme yes it was brought to save the club but they are in very rich health now. They all want there money to be put into the club now. You can argue if that's right or wrong. But the fact is their budget is getting 2 million a year extra.

Our playing budget is getting zero extra from the fans right now. It's all going to a fund in case of something that may never happen. This needs resolved quickly or the people putting in thinking its going to the clubs budget might stop and be lost forever

[AugustaHibs]

Can we have a poll here, I'm sure it will get more votes than the official vote.

As for hearts scheme yes it was brought to save the club but they are in very rich health now. They all want there money to be put into the club now. You can argue if that's right or wrong. But the fact is their budget is getting 2 million a year extra.

Our playing budget is getting zero extra from the fans right now. It's all going to a fund in case of something that may never happen. This needs resolved quickly or the people putting in thinking its going to the clubs budget might stop and be lost forever

A vote in which people who don’t pay into HSL can vote on doesn’t seem like a good idea.

[Stairway 2 7]

A vote in which people who don’t pay into HSL can vote on doesn’t seem like a good idea.

Just as an illustration. If a large % vote for money going into the team, then there is obviously space for another saving scheme to emerge, or hsl to get the act together and start putting people's funds in to hibs who want it.

[Daniel 1875]

Can we have a poll here, I'm sure it will get more votes than the official vote.

As for hearts scheme yes it was brought to save the club but they are in very rich health now. They all want there money to be put into the club now. You can argue if that's right or wrong. But the fact is their budget is getting 2 million a year extra.

Our playing budget is getting zero extra from the fans right now. It's all going to a fund in case of something that may never happen. This needs resolved quickly or the people putting in thinking its going to the clubs budget might stop and be lost forever

There’s a few reasons why we won’t conduct a poll on .net in relation to the direction of funds from Hibernian Supporters contributors.

As I’ve said, we’re going to consult with the wider membership soon. We are currently waiting for the club to arrange a follow up meeting with us.

[matty_f]

A vote in which people who don’t pay into HSL can vote on doesn’t seem like a good idea.

Totally inappropriate :agree:

[CentreLine]

I appreciate there is "another side" from my preference which is - just send the cash to the club.

But.............on the basis that we wont be increasing the HSL shareholding (as Ron aint for diluting his) then imo HSL in its current guise has perhaps run its course.

I still contribute monthly, have done since the beginning, but to be honest this feels like we are in purgatory - neither here not there - and its not doing HSL any good.

We really need this to be resolved one way or the other - and if that means that HSL stays as it is with the 15% holding, and another vehicle emerges (with club backing, I would hope) to send money to the club then so be it.

My understanding is that if HSL goes out of existence, all of its shares revert to the club, as do it’s finances. I may not be right with that but it does rather seem self defeating if that’s correct. After all the shareholding was supposed to be a safety net to ensure there could never be another aggressive takeover attempt

[Bostonhibby]

A vote in which people who don’t pay into HSL can vote on doesn’t seem like a good idea.Agreed, and there is nothing standing in the way of any fans who want to pay money directly to the club from setting up a vehicle for that very purpose, or indeed for those who are HS members voting to do that with their funds within HS if that's how they'd prefer to see them go now the meaningful shareholding (or more) has stalled.

I suspect and hope HS board are trying to engage with the club along these lines.

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[Daniel 1875]

My understanding is that if HSL goes out of existence, all of its shares revert to the club, as do it’s finances. I may not be right with that but it does rather seem self defeating if that’s correct. After all the shareholding was supposed to be a safety net to ensure there could never be another aggressive takeover attempt

One of the changes from the AGM was to amend the point which said all assets revert to the Hibernian Community Foundation (which is an arms-length charity under the guidance of the club) in the event Hibernian Supporters Ltd ceases to exist.

It’ll now be up to the members to decide where assets go at the time - they could still go to the Foundation if that’s the feeling at the time but it’s no longer pre-determined. Not that Hibernian Supporters will be going anywhere anytime soon.

[heid the baw]

There’s a few reasons why we won’t conduct a poll on .net in relation to the direction of funds from Hibernian Supporters contributors.

As I’ve said, we’re going to consult with the wider membership soon. We are currently waiting for the club to arrange a follow up meeting with us.
I agree Daniel but you also have to consider engaging with all of the current contributers to HSL and not just those of us who have hit £225.
The discussion on here is helpful as a starting point.
I appreciate yours and everyone's hard work and I want to keep contributing that bit extra to the club.
One solution might be to give the club 80% of what is in the account on the first day of both transfer windows. Retain a 20%l contingency fund and if there is any shift in the share issue, re-ballot the contributers at that point.

[green day]

My understanding is that if HSL goes out of existence, all of its shares revert to the club, as do it’s finances. I may not be right with that but it does rather seem self defeating if that’s correct. After all the shareholding was supposed to be a safety net to ensure there could never be another aggressive takeover attempt

Sure, which is why I said HSL stays as is (or as has been suggested, moves to community foundation), with its shareholding etc.............but some other vehicle emerges for monthly contributions, something revamped and engaging more people?

[BSEJVT]

There is absolutely nothing stopping those that want to donate money to the club from doing so, but HSL is not and never was the vehicle for pure donations.

Many folk, myself included, contributed to HSL as a means to having a blocking shareholding to stop a Mercer scenario from rearing its ugly head, the fact that thanks to STF's generosity the monies went to the club rather than him was the icing on the cake.

The minute RG changed the Status Quo, I stopped contributing (although I have grudgingly acquired full membership for my new grandsons) as did all of my family.

If that option for HSL to acquire up to 25% of the shareholding is brought back I will begin contributions again.

I can't believe HSL are getting any flak for retaining contributions, their mandate was not to pass donations to the club and they are now seeking the membership's view as to what they want to happen since their original mandate no longer exists, I know they have difficulty in Hibs engaging with them and and any blame over the current impasse lies solely with Hibs.

If I had not ceased contributing, and in doing so lost the right to any say on what should happen to future contributions being received, I would have argued strongly from the date of the change instigated by RG against passing further funds to the club as IMO they did not have a mandate to do so.

I fully accept why HSL did so, but HSL's remit was never to give money to the club to be pissed away by crap managers as has happened or any short-term project, it was and is to protect the future of the club for our children and grandchildren.

As someone who lived through HOH and nearly lost our team, I will gladly swap any short-term success for ensuring that that can never happen again.

I have absolutely no axe to grind with RG, but our days of having a benevolent benefactor ended when STF sold out and no-one knows what the future holds.

I used to love watching the shareholding HSL had tick up towards the magic 25% and IMO that being reduced unilaterally was a very poor choice and decision by RG, I would definitely want HSL to build a bulwark of funds against any further reduction.

[wallpaperman]

This thread is very interesting as I had been wondering myself what is happening to my modest monthly payment.

I was only ever really interested in getting money to the club, whether it be in the form of buying shares or latterly passed over to be used in the player budget.

I must be a fully paid up member as had my name on the away strip a couple of years ago, but I will also be stopping my contribution until a clear direction is decided upon. This isn’t for a financial reason, I just don’t have a clue what the point of HSL is any more.

Why do Hearts fans always seem to manager to support their club financially without the huge dramas and infighting that we seem to manage?

[Billy Whizz]

This thread is very interesting as I had been wondering myself what is happening to my modest monthly payment.

I was only ever really interested in getting money to the club, whether it be in the form of buying shares or latterly passed over to be used in the player budget.

I must be a fully paid up member as had my name on the away strip a couple of years ago, but I will also be stopping my contribution until a clear direction is decided upon. This isn’t for a financial reason, I just don’t have a clue what the point of HSL is any more.

Why do Hearts fans always seem to manager to support their club financially without the huge dramas and infighting that we seem to manage?

100% agree with all of this

[Daniel 1875]

This thread is very interesting as I had been wondering myself what is happening to my modest monthly payment.

I was only ever really interested in getting money to the club, whether it be in the form of buying shares or latterly passed over to be used in the player budget.

I must be a fully paid up member as had my name on the away strip a couple of years ago, but I will also be stopping my contribution until a clear direction is decided upon. This isn’t for a financial reason, I just don’t have a clue what the point of HSL is any more.

Why do Hearts fans always seem to manager to support their club financially without the huge dramas and infighting that we seem to manage?

The point of HSL is primarily to hold and acquire shares in Hibernian FC on behalf of its members and to support the sporting success of the club.

That is and will always be the point going forward - we just need a little bit of time to get that ironed out in light of the Article changes voted for at the AGM.

Rest assured we are doing our very best, with hours of voluntary work over the years to boot, to make sure both of the primary objectives of Hibernian Supporters continue to be at the forefront of everything we do, but there’s more to the organisation than just funnelling money from A to B forever more.

We have a range of views and ambitions and we’ll do all we can to satisfy as many of those as possible.

[wallpaperman]

The point of HSL is primarily to hold and acquire shares in Hibernian FC on behalf of its members and to support the sporting success of the club.

That is and will always be the point going forward - we just need a little bit of time to get that ironed out in light of the Article changes voted for at the AGM.

Rest assured we are doing our very best, with hours of voluntary work over the years to boot, to make sure both of the primary objectives of Hibernian Supporters continue to be at the forefront of everything we do, but there’s more to the organisation than just funnelling money from A to B forever more.

We have a range of views and ambitions and we’ll do all we can to satisfy as many of those as possible.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Daniel.

I’m happy now to continue paying meantime to see if a way forward can be found that suits almost everyone.

[Stairway 2 7]

With Ron's lad getting heavily involved and the club doing well financially, I can't see him leaving any time soon.

There will be a large kitty saved up

[Mr. Wonderful]

Don't contribute to HSL and haven't ever but the decision seems a sensible one to me. No point handing money over to the club for nothing in return, particularly when they've shown no interest in HSL and clearly don't need the money.

HSL was intended to buy the club for the fans and if that's still the long term ambition then the best avenue to get there is to have funds ready to purchase shares when they do become available.

[Stairway 2 7]

Don't contribute to HSL and haven't ever but the decision seems a sensible one to me. No point handing money over to the club for nothing in return, particularly when they've shown no interest in HSL and clearly don't need the money.

HSL was intended to buy the club for the fans and if that's still the long term ambition then the best avenue to get there is to have funds ready to purchase shares when they do become available.
So build up millions for a day that might never come

[Daniel 1875]

Don't contribute to HSL and haven't ever but the decision seems a sensible one to me. No point handing money over to the club for nothing in return, particularly when they've shown no interest in HSL and clearly don't need the money.

HSL was intended to buy the club for the fans and if that's still the long term ambition then the best avenue to get there is to have funds ready to purchase shares when they do become available.

The ambition wasn’t ever to buy the club outright, in the way it’s happened in Gorgie for instance.

The ambition was and still remains to have a meaningful 25.1% stake in the club which would allow supporters to block anyone with bad intentions. With no shares available that ambition remains an unlikely one in the medium term, so our responsibility is to ensure the current 15.4% shareholding is protected.

As well as that there’s a commitment to make sure we help the club as any responsible shareholder would.

[villager]

I’m happy HSL are holding cash for now. I only make a small monthly contribution but it’s sustainable. Great that we helped out in lockdown and are now considering the long game. I’m a fan of the Gordon’s being at the club and think it’s good HSL exists for whatever happens in the future.

Thanks to all the unpaid volunteers at HSL for their time and effort. It is appreciated.

[Bostonhibby]

There is absolutely nothing stopping those that want to donate money to the club from doing so, but HSL is not and never was the vehicle for pure donations.

Many folk, myself included, contributed to HSL as a means to having a blocking shareholding to stop a Mercer scenario from rearing its ugly head, the fact that thanks to STF's generosity the monies went to the club rather than him was the icing on the cake.

The minute RG changed the Status Quo, I stopped contributing (although I have grudgingly acquired full membership for my new grandsons) as did all of my family.

If that option for HSL to acquire up to 25% of the shareholding is brought back I will begin contributions again.

I can't believe HSL are getting any flak for retaining contributions, their mandate was not to pass donations to the club and they are now seeking the membership's view as to what they want to happen since their original mandate no longer exists, I know they have difficulty in Hibs engaging with them and and any blame over the current impasse lies solely with Hibs.

If I had not ceased contributing, and in doing so lost the right to any say on what should happen to future contributions being received, I would have argued strongly from the date of the change instigated by RG against passing further funds to the club as IMO they did not have a mandate to do so.

I fully accept why HSL did so, but HSL's remit was never to give money to the club to be pissed away by crap managers as has happened or any short-term project, it was and is to protect the future of the club for our children and grandchildren.

As someone who lived through HOH and nearly lost our team, I will gladly swap any short-term success for ensuring that that can never happen again.

I have absolutely no axe to grind with RG, but our days of having a benevolent benefactor ended when STF sold out and no-one knows what the future holds.

I used to love watching the shareholding HSL had tick up towards the magic 25% and IMO that being reduced unilaterally was a very poor choice and decision by RG, I would definitely want HSL to build a bulwark of funds against any further reduction.Well said, virtually mirrors my own family position and our motives for taking part, I know quite a few who thought the same way.

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[IberianHibernian]

Now feel a bit guilty about starting this thread . Was really only wanting to know if HS contributions would be another way to boost transfer window kitty though I did know about AGM vote etc so should have known that at present HS can`t help in that way . Anyway , I certainly don`t want people to stop contributing and would also like to thank those who run HS for their efforts .

At least this thread has shown that there are supporters who would be interested in contributing to a scheme to boost club income outwith usual ways ( match tickets etc ) Whether there are enough people wiling and able to do so is a different question . Likewise there are fans who want to contribute to buy shares when / if available in the future to try to safeguard club from predators .

[bookert]

There is absolutely nothing stopping those that want to donate money to the club from doing so, but HSL is not and never was the vehicle for pure donations.

Many folk, myself included, contributed to HSL as a means to having a blocking shareholding to stop a Mercer scenario from rearing its ugly head, the fact that thanks to STF's generosity the monies went to the club rather than him was the icing on the cake.

The minute RG changed the Status Quo, I stopped contributing (although I have grudgingly acquired full membership for my new grandsons) as did all of my family.

If that option for HSL to acquire up to 25% of the shareholding is brought back I will begin contributions again.

I can't believe HSL are getting any flak for retaining contributions, their mandate was not to pass donations to the club and they are now seeking the membership's view as to what they want to happen since their original mandate no longer exists, I know they have difficulty in Hibs engaging with them and and any blame over the current impasse lies solely with Hibs.

If I had not ceased contributing, and in doing so lost the right to any say on what should happen to future contributions being received, I would have argued strongly from the date of the change instigated by RG against passing further funds to the club as IMO they did not have a mandate to do so.

I fully accept why HSL did so, but HSL's remit was never to give money to the club to be pissed away by crap managers as has happened or any short-term project, it was and is to protect the future of the club for our children and grandchildren.

As someone who lived through HOH and nearly lost our team, I will gladly swap any short-term success for ensuring that that can never happen again.

I have absolutely no axe to grind with RG, but our days of having a benevolent benefactor ended when STF sold out and no-one knows what the future holds.

I used to love watching the shareholding HSL had tick up towards the magic 25% and IMO that being reduced unilaterally was a very poor choice and decision by RG, I would definitely want HSL to build a bulwark of funds against any further reduction.

Well explained and my view exactly.

[hibee_nation]

RG should let HSL get to 25% to secure the club for the fans then all future cash goes to help the club. I stopped and will only resume when this is achievable

[May21/05/16]

There is absolutely nothing stopping those that want to donate money to the club from doing so, but HSL is not and never was the vehicle for pure donations.

Many folk, myself included, contributed to HSL as a means to having a blocking shareholding to stop a Mercer scenario from rearing its ugly head, the fact that thanks to STF's generosity the monies went to the club rather than him was the icing on the cake.

The minute RG changed the Status Quo, I stopped contributing (although I have grudgingly acquired full membership for my new grandsons) as did all of my family.

If that option for HSL to acquire up to 25% of the shareholding is brought back I will begin contributions again.

I can't believe HSL are getting any flak for retaining contributions, their mandate was not to pass donations to the club and they are now seeking the membership's view as to what they want to happen since their original mandate no longer exists, I know they have difficulty in Hibs engaging with them and and any blame over the current impasse lies solely with Hibs.

If I had not ceased contributing, and in doing so lost the right to any say on what should happen to future contributions being received, I would have argued strongly from the date of the change instigated by RG against passing further funds to the club as IMO they did not have a mandate to do so.

I fully accept why HSL did so, but HSL's remit was never to give money to the club to be pissed away by crap managers as has happened or any short-term project, it was and is to protect the future of the club for our children and grandchildren.

As someone who lived through HOH and nearly lost our team, I will gladly swap any short-term success for ensuring that that can never happen again.

I have absolutely no axe to grind with RG, but our days of having a benevolent benefactor ended when STF sold out and no-one knows what the future holds.

I used to love watching the shareholding HSL had tick up towards the magic 25% and IMO that being reduced unilaterally was a very poor choice and decision by RG, I would definitely want HSL to build a bulwark of funds against any further reduction.Agree

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[superfurryhibby]

RG should let HSL get to 25% to secure the club for the fans then all future cash goes to help the club. I stopped and will only resume when this is achievable

Maybe he could return HSL's c5% stake that was diluted when he bought the club , as a gesture of good will and recognition of all the money paid in by donation since then?

I found that to be incredible and very out of keeping with the previous board's rationale for setting up the opportunity for a fans stake in the club.

Ps: I don't care if it was "normal" business practice. Football is about more than pounds and pence, it felt to me like HSL/fan shareholders were shafted

[ahibby]

I didn't realise that the payments were not now going to the club (that's on me for not reading my emails). If that's going to continue for long then I'll be stopping my payments as well. I pay £300 a year because I want it going to help improve the club not to sit in a bank account somewhere unused.

I too stopped paying into HSL. I only wanted to contribute to a player fund so HSL no longer for me.

[Just Alf]

I too stopped paying into HSL. I only wanted to contribute to a player fund so HSL no longer for me.Reading it, that option will be there once set up.

[ahibby]

Reading it, that option will be there once set up.

Not really, thats how it wasbbut stopped. I understand their position so might jump back in.

[Ringothedog]

This must be concerning for HSL, if fans keep on stopping their contributions because they are not going to the club then it becomes doubtful that they will will be able to continue under their current format. I for one will now be stopping my contributions

[chippy]

This must be concerning for HSL, if fans keep on stopping their contributions because they are not going to the club then it becomes doubtful that they will will be able to continue under their current format. I for one will now be stopping my contributions

Are you aware of one of the main reasons for suspending the free flow of HSL cash to the club: Our shareholding was reduced by around 5% during Ron’s purchase. We now have only a 15% stake. Any future share issue will reduce our stake even further unless we have immediate funds to buy a substantial amount of newly released shares. HSL are protecting our stake in this way. RG doesn’t seem bothered about HSL handing over cash. I support this suspension until a way forward is offered

[Stairway 2 7]

Either hsl needs to add the option for you to choose to put your money to the team, or another vehicle for this needs set up and quickly. It's never been so important to get third than it is now with Europe until Christmas. Hearts fans are putting in 2 million a year into their coffers and we are putting in zero

[Juniper Greens]

I hadn't realised that the money was no longer going to the club. I'll pause my donations until things are clearer. As others have said, I clearly haven't read my emails properly, but for such a big decision, I'm disappointed that it's been made directly at the AGM. I was unfortunately away at the time, so couldn't attend

[Stairway 2 7]

Are you aware of one of the main reasons for suspending the free flow of HSL cash to the club: Our shareholding was reduced by around 5% during Ron’s purchase. We now have only a 15% stake. Any future share issue will reduce our stake even further unless we have immediate funds to buy a substantial amount of newly released shares. HSL are protecting our stake in this way. RG doesn’t seem bothered about HSL handing over cash. I support this suspension until a way forward is offered

And if there is no new share issue and Ron is with us in the long hall? I think hsl is admirable and happy they are doing it, but we need a vehicle for the people who want to put money into the team

They are clearly two different things. I'm personally not fussy about the shares and want money to the manager. Many are the opposite to that which is fine

[Juniper Greens]

Does anyone know if any simple alternative donation scheme exists to give a similar amount directly to the club? This is a huge season for us

[Ringothedog]

Are you aware of one of the main reasons for suspending the free flow of HSL cash to the club: Our shareholding was reduced by around 5% during Ron’s purchase. We now have only a 15% stake. Any future share issue will reduce our stake even further unless we have immediate funds to buy a substantial amount of newly released shares. HSL are protecting our stake in this way. RG doesn’t seem bothered about HSL handing over cash. I support this suspension until a way forward is offered

The shareholding was reduced due to the owner putting up £1m into the bank account straight away, but I am sure you know that . I and many others pay into HSL to benefit the team. If this stops then so does my donation, this is not about shares it’s about helping Hibs.

[CapitalGreen]

I hope HSL have thought of a strategy to attract back all the donators who are now cancelling since their donations have stopped going to the club. Over 1000 people donated during the pandemic in the knowledge that their donations wouldn’t be used to purchase shares, that’s a lot of people probably wondering whether it’s worth continuing.

[Golden Bear]

Does anyone know if any simple alternative donation scheme exists to give a similar amount directly to the club? This is a huge season for us

This is when I hope someone from the Club is looking in. A direct contribution scheme is something I too would welcome.

[lucky]

The shareholding was reduced due to the owner putting up £1m into the bank account straight away, but I am sure you know that . I and many others pay into HSL to benefit the team. If this stops then so does my donation, this is not about shares it’s about helping Hibs.

HSL was set up to protect Hibs in the long term. It was never about the putting money into the team. If supporters under the HSL banner get to 25.1% of the shares it’s stops any owner making the big decisions about the future of of our club without supporters agreeing. HSL is not about the playing squad it’s about ensuring there is a Hibernian Football Club now and in the future.

[Blaster]

HSL was set up to protect Hibs in the long term. It was never about the putting money into the team. If supporters under the HSL banner get to 25.1% of the shares it’s stops any owner making the big decisions about the future of of our club without supporters agreeing. HSL is not about the playing squad it’s about ensuring there is a Hibernian Football Club now and in the future.

I think that’s spot on mate, but there will be a decent percentage of fans (like me) solely used it as a means of generating funds for the club to invest in the playing pot. Like others I have recently stopped my modest payment until the funds go to Hibs as before

[Pagan Hibernia]

Well it’s clear there’s two separate and distinct camps when it comes to HSL donors.

surely in this day and age it’s possible for HSL to accommodate both? Even if it just means having two separate accounts, one for contributors to pump money in to help the playing budget which gets sent straight to the club at the end of every month, and another to build cash reserves for those who are passionate about the long term shareholding.

the shares were my concern when I got on board. And it probably still is despite Ron Gordon’s chairmanship. The money going to the team was a bonus.

[Bostonhibby]

HSL was set up to protect Hibs in the long term. It was never about the putting money into the team. If supporters under the HSL banner get to 25.1% of the shares it’s stops any owner making the big decisions about the future of of our club without supporters agreeing. HSL is not about the playing squad it’s about ensuring there is a Hibernian Football Club now and in the future.

It's what the original articles of association said, I think, and in any event was the sole purpose of the original association and in fact all it could do without agreement of the members to change was buy shares.

That ship has probably sailed, or sunk depending on your outlook.

There's a lot to be said for getting funds to the club for the on pitch side for sure but it needs a vehicle for doing it for those who have no interest in why HSL exists or who just want to enhance the playing budget and for that purpose alone.

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[superfurryhibby]

The shareholding was reduced due to the owner putting up £1m into the bank account straight away, but I am sure you know that . I and many others pay into HSL to benefit the team. If this stops then so does my donation, this is not about shares it’s about helping Hibs.

The previous owners and the current one should have protected the HSL investment, it was a a poor way of rewarding fans who thought they were investing in order to protect the future of the club. That was the deal when shares were offered and for me, it was a pretty awful stroke to pull.

[Daniel 1875]

Well it’s clear there’s two separate and distinct camps when it comes to HSL donors.

surely in this day and age it’s possible for HSL to accommodate both? Even if it just means having two separate accounts, one for contributors to pump money in to help the playing budget which gets sent straight to the club at the end of every month, and another to build cash reserves for those who are passionate about the long term shareholding.

the shares were my concern when I got on board. And it probably still is despite Ron Gordon’s chairmanship. The money going to the team was a bonus.

It should (and hopefully will) be possible to accommodate both camps. We’re working on pulling together a suitable solution for all contributors but it will take a bit of time to get it sorted.

I’d ask everyone to bear with us while this is worked out.

[Stairway 2 7]

It should (and hopefully will) be possible to accommodate both camps. We’re working on pulling together a suitable solution for all contributors but it will take a bit of time to get it sorted.

I’d ask everyone to bear with us while this is worked out.

Brilliant great effort. Hopefully it's appreciated by the club if yous manage it

[chippy]

I’m a firm ‘let’s build up a reserve fund to protect our shareholding and perhaps to increase it in the future’.
Regarding the members who wish to donate to the club only, would you be interested in getting something in return for your donation eg. HSL purchase a full season hospitality package for some members to experience on a rota basis ; fund a number of adult season tickets for disadvantaged Hibees. In both circumstances funds go directly to the club?

[Ringothedog]

I’m a firm ‘let’s build up a reserve fund to protect our shareholding and perhaps to increase it in the future’.
Regarding the members who wish to donate to the club only, would you be interested in getting something in return for your donation eg. HSL purchase a full season hospitality package for some members to experience on a rota basis ; fund a number of adult season tickets for disadvantaged Hibees. In both circumstances funds go directly to the club?

I have no interest in getting anything in return for my donation other than helping towards a successful team on the park. If that means we donate 500 season tickets to Kicks for Kids or something along those lines all the better. For me it’s all about getting extra money to the club

[DanishJohn]

I have read this thread with interest and very amazed how fans see things differently.

HSl were set up to buy shares in Hibs. The vision was to protect our club for many years to come. To stop cowboys dead in their tracks. To stop some sleazebag getting us as a plaything. Holding shares in the entity is a way the entity might be protected.(This section is talking about the Romanovs of this world)

I place no blame on the previous owners. They gave HSL and the fans a lot of time to buy up shares to at least get a 25.1% (Safeguard) We reached just over 20%. HSL was on way to achieving the safeguard figure. (The balloons at the start who called it a Ponzi scheme didn't help matters)

Perhaps our present owner doesn't like fan ownership. He might take the view a business should be owned by a rich individual. Is fan ownership a form of socialism ? I don't know. What I do know is HSL used to have approx 20 % holding and now after the change in ownership we only own 15.4%. Why ?

What I do know is that men like Bill Shankley, Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson believed in the man in the street. The wee supporter whose club means the world to them.

Why would I just hand my cash over to a rich individual with nothing in return ? Will the individual give me my money back when he sells ?
I like Ralph Lauren Polo shirts and I might purchase one now and again but I wouldn't walk into their store and say right there's the 75 quid for the shirt and oh by the way here's another 100 quid because I just love your brand ! Bizarre.

Off now to get a haircut. individual gives me a right good cut and I willingly pay my £20. I have never once thought about a separate donation to the couple who own the salon.
Why would I ? They would think I was a right soft lad.

[CapitalGreen]

I place no blame on the previous owners. They gave HSL and the fans a lot of time to buy up shares to at least get a 25.1% (Safeguard) We reached just over 20%. HSL was on way to achieving the safeguard figure. (The balloons at the start who called it a Ponzi scheme didn't help matters)


The previous owners continued to sell shares to HSL in the knowledge that they were in negotiations with a third party to sell the club in a deal that would include a dilution of those same shares.

[Rick Rude]

I have read this thread with interest and very amazed how fans see things differently.

HSl were set up to buy shares in Hibs. The vision was to protect our club for many years to come. To stop cowboys dead in their tracks. To stop some sleazebag getting us as a plaything. Holding shares in the entity is a way the entity might be protected.(This section is talking about the Romanovs of this world)

I place no blame on the previous owners. They gave HSL and the fans a lot of time to buy up shares to at least get a 25.1% (Safeguard) We reached just over 20%. HSL was on way to achieving the safeguard figure. (The balloons at the start who called it a Ponzi scheme didn't help matters)

Perhaps our present owner doesn't like fan ownership. He might take the view a business should be owned by a rich individual. Is fan ownership a form of socialism ? I don't know. What I do know is HSL used to have approx 20 % holding and now after the change in ownership we only own 15.4%. Why ?

What I do know is that men like Bill Shankley, Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson believed in the man in the street. The wee supporter whose club means the world to them.

Why would I just hand my cash over to a rich individual with nothing in return ? Will the individual give me my money back when he sells ?
I like Ralph Lauren Polo shirts and I might purchase one now and again but I wouldn't walk into their store and say right there's the 75 quid for the shirt and oh by the way here's another 100 quid because I just love your brand ! Bizarre.

Off now to get a haircut. individual gives me a right good cut and I willingly pay my £20. I have never once thought about a separate donation to the couple who own the salon.
Why would I ? They would think I was a right soft lad.

Using that explanation would you buy shares in Ralph Lauren or your local hairdressers knowing they are essentially worthless but just to protect those businesses? Or do you want to protect Hibs for the same reason that fans want to put money in - they ain't just another business.

[superfurryhibby]

The previous owners continued to sell shares to HSL in the knowledge that they were in negotiations with a third party to sell the club in a deal that would include a dilution of those same shares.

That was always a disappointing aspect of the sale of the club.

I know that other posters who are more au fait with business finance said at the time that this was common practice. I don't care, football clubs like Hibs aren't a typical commercial enterprise. The dilution of shareholding (which obviously also diluted the stake held by small individual investors, like me) was poor. The monies involved must have represented several hundred thousand pounds worth of fan investment.

Gordon should address this issue. If he did, it would be to his eternal credit and people (like me) would be more than happy to get on board with fan based revenue raising schemes. Until then, nae chance. Give back what you took away Ron, it would be an honourable thing to do.

[RyeSloan]

That was always a disappointing aspect of the sale of the club.

I know that other posters who are more au fait with business finance said at the time that this was common practice. I don't care, football clubs like Hibs aren't a typical commercial enterprise. The dilution of shareholding (which obviously also diluted the stake held by small individual investors, like me) was poor. The monies involved must have represented several hundred thousand pounds worth of fan investment.

Gordon should address this issue. If he did, it would be to his eternal credit and people (like me) would be more than happy to get on board with fan based revenue raising schemes. Until then, nae chance. Give back what you took away Ron, it would be an honourable thing to do.

You could look at it another way and say that it was the sellers who agreed to the dilution by essentially agreeing to the takeover on the terms offered.

It was however beneficial to the club as new shares were issued and funds raised.

We need to accept though that Ron is unlikely to want to issue new shares to HSL and dilute his holding nor is he likely to want to issue new shares to HSL and have to put in fresh capital himself at the same rate to maintain his holding percentage.

Taking that into account I can see why HSL have a problem. One section of their members still see its reason for existing as building (or protecting) its shareholding but it has zero routes to do so. Another section just wants to support the club financially effectively with no strings (or shares!) attached.

You can’t satisfy both at this moment in time.

[superfurryhibby]

You could look at it another way and say that it was the sellers who agreed to the dilution by essentially agreeing to the takeover on the terms offered.

It was however beneficial to the club as new shares were issued and funds raised.

We need to accept though that Ron is unlikely to want to issue new shares to HSL and dilute his holding nor is he likely to want to issue new shares to HSL and have to put in fresh capital himself at the same rate to maintain his holding percentage.

Taking that into account I can see why HSL have a problem. One section of their members still see its reason for existing as building (or protecting) its shareholding but it has zero routes to do so. Another section just wants to support the club financially effectively with no strings (or shares!) attached.

You can’t satisfy both at this moment in time.

Of course, the previous owners are also accountable for agreeing. I suppose the need to sell outweighed the inherent unfairness of asking fans to invest and then diluting their stake holding, just like that.

Either way, it's now Gordon in charge and he knows he is effectively dismissing what is essentially free money by refusing to compromise.

[Gerard]

Of course, the previous owners are also accountable for agreeing. I suppose the need to sell outweighed the inherent unfairness of asking fans to invest and then diluting their stake holding, just like that.

Either way, it's now Gordon in charge and he knows he is effectively dismissing what is essentially free money by refusing to compromise.

I gave money to HSL to allow HSL to own an important level of shares in the club. The current owner will not allow any shareholder to sell or donate their shares to HSL. Mr Gordon is content with his majority shareholding in the club and will not allow any shares to be issued or transferred. Mr Gordon is happy to accept donations from HSL. I think this situation of giving money and not even allowing share holders to donate shares to HSL or even give to their family or friends is not equitable. I fully support HSL in the decisions that were agree unanimously at the AGM.

[May21/05/16]

I gave money to HSL to allow HSL to own an important level of shares in the club. The current owner will not allow any shareholder to sell or donate their shares to HSL. Mr Gordon is content with his majority shareholding in the club and will not allow any shares to be issued or transferred. Mr Gordon is happy to accept donations from HSL. I think this situation of giving money and not even allowing share holders to donate shares to HSL or even give to their family or friends is not equitable. I fully support HSL in the decisions that were agree unanimously at the AGM.Agree

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[hibeg]

I gave money to HSL to allow HSL to own an important level of shares in the club. The current owner will not allow any shareholder to sell or donate their shares to HSL. Mr Gordon is content with his majority shareholding in the club and will not allow any shares to be issued or transferred. Mr Gordon is happy to accept donations from HSL. I think this situation of giving money and not even allowing share holders to donate shares to HSL or even give to their family or friends is not equitable. I fully support HSL in the decisions that were agree unanimously at the AGM.

Yes, that is where i am as well. I want my monthly donations kept to build up funds at this moment in time

[Bostonhibby]

The primary and secondary objectives of the Association of HSL would appear to enable it to accommodate both aspirations so long as members agree?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220630/e1e4e6cfb445d4154c74ad0a427cf540.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220630/e11b90083a212521e1303e158d6da2f8.jpg

[Stairway 2 7]

There is a handful of fan owned clubs the rest are just getting on with it. I just can't see our owner issuing anymore shares whilst he's here. The rights and wrongs of that and the previous sale are immaterial to whether he will dilute his shares

But he seems a smart guy and financially savy. I feel were on a sound footing and just need to get the manager right.

No one is saying people shouldn't build up a fund incase he ever changes his mind and issues shares. But there is a market for people like myself that would put some into a players fund. I don't expect anything in return, just as I know the shares I have are pretty much useless.

Just like the thread on volunteering, you can't compare us to hibs with our attitude to another company.

[Scotty Leither]

If you're a regular donator to HSL, don't stop your donations. Hopefully the club have got eyes on this thread and there's some positive movement soon to find a way forward. As stated by Daniel (who performs a thankless task admirably), the owner doesn't want to further dilute his shareholding - QED HSL can't buy any more shares as they're not allowed to, hence the needful change in the Articles of Association.

Again if my understanding is right, the tweak in the Articles will allow HSL to be more flexible with the donations; FWIW I just want my monthly D/D to go towards augmenting the playing squad, and if the club can't see HSL as the free money scheme that it can become then more fool them, to be honest.

Lastly for those citing our chums across the city, their scheme was initially founded on investing in their club, or their club dying - it was as binary as that. The fact that their scheme couldn't have got off the ground without a £28M CVA being expedited first, where the world and their wife got bumped for money seems to have escaped the attention of some on here, and also within our fawning thick as **** media who seem to think they can do no wrong.

Once again, if you contribute at the moment, DON'T STOP YOUR DONATIONS, and if anyone from the club who has the ear of Ron Gordon is reading this thread, pick up the phone to Daniel, will you?

[RyeSloan]

I gave money to HSL to allow HSL to own an important level of shares in the club. The current owner will not allow any shareholder to sell or donate their shares to HSL. Mr Gordon is content with his majority shareholding in the club and will not allow any shares to be issued or transferred. Mr Gordon is happy to accept donations from HSL. I think this situation of giving money and not even allowing share holders to donate shares to HSL or even give to their family or friends is not equitable. I fully support HSL in the decisions that were agree unanimously at the AGM.

Can Ron actually stop people from selling / donating their shares to anyone including HSL?!?

[Bostonhibby]

If you're a regular donator to HSL, don't stop your donations. Hopefully the club have got eyes on this thread and there's some positive movement soon to find a way forward. As stated by Daniel (who performs a thankless task admirably), the owner doesn't want to further dilute his shareholding - QED HSL can't buy any more shares as they're not allowed to, hence the needful change in the Articles of Association.

Again if my understanding is right, the tweak in the Articles will allow HSL to be more flexible with the donations; FWIW I just want my monthly D/D to go towards augmenting the playing squad, and if the club can't see HSL as the free money scheme that it can become then more fool them, to be honest.

Lastly for those citing our chums across the city, their scheme was initially founded on investing in their club, or their club dying - it was as binary as that. The fact that their scheme couldn't have got off the ground without a £28M CVA being expedited first, where the world and their wife got bumped for money seems to have escaped the attention of some on here, and also within our fawning thick as **** media who seem to think they can do no wrong.

Once again, if you contribute at the moment, DON'T STOP YOUR DONATIONS, and if anyone from the club who has the ear of Ron Gordon is reading this thread, pick up the phone to Daniel, will you?Nail, hammer, heid[emoji106]

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[BSEJVT]

My understanding is yes he can, be he applies that control selectively.

For example I have been able to reduce my personal shareholding in favour of my grandsons, but iirc and I may be mistaken here and quite happy to be corrected he stopped permitting existing shares to be transferred to HSL.

[Stairway 2 7]

A club fund option needs sorted as soon as possible, I understand this is easier said than done. Every week it isn't the club is losing out money, would have been nice to have it sorted for pre season as I'm sure the fans would fund a decent players wages.

Hearts did start with good numbers because the need to survive. But they have been cash rich for years now. Their fans are now putting 2 million a year into the playing squad and we are putting in nothing. We can say so what, but the fact is every player we both go for they should be able to sign.

[Pagan Hibernia]

My understanding is yes he can, be he applies that control selectively.

For example I have been able to reduce my personal shareholding in favour of my grandsons, but iirc and I may be mistaken here and quite happy to be corrected he stopped permitting existing shares to be transferred to HSL.

if that’s the case then I’m even more unhappy about his attitude towards HSL.

[ahibby]

I have read this thread with interest and very amazed how fans see things differently.

HSl were set up to buy shares in Hibs. The vision was to protect our club for many years to come. To stop cowboys dead in their tracks. To stop some sleazebag getting us as a plaything. Holding shares in the entity is a way the entity might be protected.(This section is talking about the Romanovs of this world)

I place no blame on the previous owners. They gave HSL and the fans a lot of time to buy up shares to at least get a 25.1% (Safeguard) We reached just over 20%. HSL was on way to achieving the safeguard figure. (The balloons at the start who called it a Ponzi scheme didn't help matters)

Perhaps our present owner doesn't like fan ownership. He might take the view a business should be owned by a rich individual. Is fan ownership a form of socialism ? I don't know. What I do know is HSL used to have approx 20 % holding and now after the change in ownership we only own 15.4%. Why ?

What I do know is that men like Bill Shankley, Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson believed in the man in the street. The wee supporter whose club means the world to them.

Why would I just hand my cash over to a rich individual with nothing in return ? Will the individual give me my money back when he sells ?
I like Ralph Lauren Polo shirts and I might purchase one now and again but I wouldn't walk into their store and say right there's the 75 quid for the shirt and oh by the way here's another 100 quid because I just love your brand ! Bizarre.

Off now to get a haircut. individual gives me a right good cut and I willingly pay my £20. I have never once thought about a separate donation to the couple who own the salon.
Why would I ? They would think I was a right soft lad.

I think you are showing some disrespect on two fronts. First of all you are questioning fans decisions to contribute towards the players bill. Suggesting we get nothjng in return. You are wide of the mark. Even fans who do not contribute are rewarded because we have given and renewed contracts that otherwise the club would not have afforded. Secondly you suggest that yhe Gordons might sell us to undesirables? Disrespectful.

[chippy]

A club fund option needs sorted as soon as possible, I understand this is easier said than done. Every week it isn't the club is losing out money, would have been nice to have it sorted for pre season as I'm sure the fans would fund a decent players wages.

Hearts did start with good numbers because the need to survive. But they have been cash rich for years now. Their fans are now putting 2 million a year into the playing squad and we are putting in nothing. We can say so what, but the fact is every player we both go for they should be able to sign.

Why not just set up a standing order to Hibernian FC?

[Stairway 2 7]

Why not just set up a standing order to Hibernian FC?

A few people would do that as they do with the brilliant kicks for kids ect. But an easy online direct debit club, I'm sure would bring in a significant amount to the playing side. There is loads on just this thread waiting for one to open.

[ahibby]

A few people would do that as they do with the brilliant kicks for kids ect. But an easy online direct debit club, I'm sure would bring in a significant amount to the playing side. There is loads on just this thread waiting for one to open.

Would that not be taxable income while donations through HSL are not? Maybe someone knows?

[RyeSloan]

My understanding is yes he can, be he applies that control selectively.

For example I have been able to reduce my personal shareholding in favour of my grandsons, but iirc and I may be mistaken here and quite happy to be corrected he stopped permitting existing shares to be transferred to HSL.

Pretty poor show that and surely one to be addressed.

I assume as it’s a limited company the board has some power to agree or not to share transfers / sales.

[BSEJVT]

if that’s the case then I’m even more unhappy about his attitude towards HSL.

I would much prefer someone to confirm my recollection re blocking transfers of shares to HSL is accurate before jumping in here, but supposing it is, then it’s not difficult to see why he would do so.

The absence or minimisation of a strong collective “opposition” makes his control of the business more complete and by extension the value of the business greater.

That for many was the whole point of HSL in the first place, to act as a force for good IF AND I REPEAT IF it was ever so required.

For folk like me this felt like our doing our bit to prevent another doomsday Mercer scenario visiting our successors.

I am personally against HSL ever straying from its original mandate, there are plenty other ways of giving money to Hibs such as buying an unused season ticket as I have done for years.

It’s good business sense for RG to do what he has done, but sticks in my craw a bit as Hibs is much more than a business interest to me.

I personally applaud HSL for stopping mindlessly handing over cash to Hibs, as if nothing else it has shown them fulfilling their duty of care to their members and will hopefully bring this issue back out into the open for further debate.

What folk do with their money is up to them so I would never say to them don’t stop just giving money to Hibs, but there may be a more effective way to do so whilst securing the future of the club.

That route used to exist, presently doesn’t and if we hand over all the cash we used for nothing in return then there is no impetus for RG to look at this again.

I would encourage folk to keep contributing to HSL until this is resolved without conditioning them to give away their only bargaining tool, the fact that it’s shares for cash or no contributions handed over.

Once that discussion has ended then by all means go with your heart rather than your head, but please don’t hamstrung HSL

If I am wrong re share transfers to HSL the situation is less concerning but still one we should look to prevent by having a fund available to ensure no further dilution of a shareholding built up by the long toil of thousands of our fellow supporters.

I feel so strongly about this that if an opportunity to acquire further shares to take HSL to 25.1% became available I would contribute anew towards making this and only this happen.

I am 60 this year and have seen periods of great football and trophy success, I have also gone to ER on the night the Mercer takeover plan was announced thinking I had lost my beloved Hibs.

The saving of Hibs at that time was worth any success / good football seen since times infinity.

My duty and that of many others who lived through that period is to try and see that never happens again and that is why RG’s treatment of HSL was and is a huge concern to me.

As I say I know why he did it, in itself there is nothing sinister in it, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Sorry for long long post

GGTTH

[LeithMike]

I would much prefer someone to confirm my recollection re blocking transfers of shares to HSL is accurate before jumping in here, but supposing it is, then it’s not difficult to see why he would do so.

The absence or minimisation of a strong collective “opposition” makes his control of the business more complete and by extension the value of the business greater.

That for many was the whole point of HSL in the first place, to act as a force for good IF AND I REPEAT IF it was ever so required.

For folk like me this felt like our doing our bit to prevent another doomsday Mercer scenario visiting our successors.

I am personally against HSL ever straying from its original mandate, there are plenty other ways of giving money to Hibs such as buying an unused season ticket as I have done for years.

It’s good business sense for RG to do what he has done, but sticks in my craw a bit as Hibs is much more than a business interest to me.

I personally applaud HSL for stopping mindlessly handing over cash to Hibs, as if nothing else it has shown them fulfilling their duty of care to their members and will hopefully bring this issue back out into the open for further debate.

What folk do with their money is up to them so I would never say to them don’t stop just giving money to Hibs, but there may be a more effective way to do so whilst securing the future of the club.

That route used to exist, presently doesn’t and if we hand over all the cash we used for nothing in return then there is no impetus for RG to look at this again.

I would encourage folk to keep contributing to HSL until this is resolved without conditioning them to give away their only bargaining tool, the fact that it’s shares for cash or no contributions handed over.

Once that discussion has ended then by all means go with your heart rather than your head, but please don’t hamstrung HSL

If I am wrong re share transfers to HSL the situation is less concerning but still one we should look to prevent by having a fund available to ensure no further dilution of a shareholding built up by the long toil of thousands of our fellow supporters.

I feel so strongly about this that if an opportunity to acquire further shares to take HSL to 25.1% became available I would contribute anew towards making this and only this happen.

I am 60 this year and have seen periods of great football and trophy success, I have also gone to ER on the night the Mercer takeover plan was announced thinking I had lost my beloved Hibs.

The saving of Hibs at that time was worth any success / good football seen since times infinity.

My duty and that of many others who lived through that period is to try and see that never happens again and that is why RG’s treatment of HSL was and is a huge concern to me.

As I say I know why he did it, in itself there is nothing sinister in it, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Sorry for long long post

GGTTHGreat post and your passion for safeguarding the future of the club comes across. I am in complete agreement with you.



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[chippy]

Great post and your passion for safeguarding the future of the club comes across. I am in complete agreement with you.



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I agree with both of you

[Bostonhibby]

Great post and your passion for safeguarding the future of the club comes across. I am in complete agreement with you.



Sent from my SM-N960F using TapatalkCount me in, it's why myself, my family and friends who bought into the original HSL did so. It's why it was set up.

Many of us still do get cash into our club in other ways. I hope those that are seeking other ways to do it find them too.

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[donno]

I have read this thread with interest and very amazed how fans see things differently.

HSl were set up to buy shares in Hibs. The vision was to protect our club for many years to come. To stop cowboys dead in their tracks. To stop some sleazebag getting us as a plaything. Holding shares in the entity is a way the entity might be protected.(This section is talking about the Romanovs of this world)

I place no blame on the previous owners. They gave HSL and the fans a lot of time to buy up shares to at least get a 25.1% (Safeguard) We reached just over 20%. HSL was on way to achieving the safeguard figure. (The balloons at the start who called it a Ponzi scheme didn't help matters)

Perhaps our present owner doesn't like fan ownership. He might take the view a business should be owned by a rich individual. Is fan ownership a form of socialism ? I don't know. What I do know is HSL used to have approx 20 % holding and now after the change in ownership we only own 15.4%. Why ?

What I do know is that men like Bill Shankley, Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson believed in the man in the street. The wee supporter whose club means the world to them.

Why would I just hand my cash over to a rich individual with nothing in return ? Will the individual give me my money back when he sells ?
I like Ralph Lauren Polo shirts and I might purchase one now and again but I wouldn't walk into their store and say right there's the 75 quid for the shirt and oh by the way here's another 100 quid because I just love your brand ! Bizarre.

Off now to get a haircut. individual gives me a right good cut and I willingly pay my £20. I have never once thought about a separate donation to the couple who own the salon.
Why would I ? They would think I was a right soft lad.This!

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[wallpaperman]

It should (and hopefully will) be possible to accommodate both camps. We’re working on pulling together a suitable solution for all contributors but it will take a bit of time to get it sorted.

I’d ask everyone to bear with us while this is worked out.

Can I ask if there has been any progress on this 4 months later? I have continued to pay my monthly contribution, and would be interested to know if funds are still being stockpiled?

I appreciate that money has been spent on the hospitality season ticket and I thought that a great idea, but something else needs to happen, can’t keep putting money away for a day that will probably never happen.

Logged into my account just now for the first time in forever and was surprised to be greeted with the message ‘Your donation is used to support the Football Department and keep improving things on the park’. which as far as I’m aware has not been the case for some considerable time.

My engagement with the club is probably at an all time low, for various reasons, since I first went to see them in 1976 as a 6 year old, I have got much more enjoyment recently watching games much lower down the pyramid.

My November payment has just been paid so I have a few weeks to decide whether to cancel/pause, I just can’t see any reason not to, being quite honest.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Fully paid up HSL member (one of 3 in my household) but unfortunately wouldn't consider putting a penny more in, if it's just a case of handing it over to the current custodians of the club to fritter away, effectively a subsidy to avoid a millionaire needing to waste his own money.

[wallpaperman]

Fully paid up HSL member (one of 3 in my household) but unfortunately wouldn't consider putting a penny more in, if it's just a case of handing it over to the current custodians of the club to fritter away, effectively a subsidy to avoid a millionaire needing to waste his own money.

My understanding is the opposite, that money is being held by HSL these recent months (other than paying for the hospitality table) to build up a war chest or something.

Clarity on this would be useful.

[Daniel 1875]

We’ve not been putting the money into the club for a number of months now, since it was voted at the AGM that the Articles would be changed and that funds would be held - this has been reiterated a number of times since then.

As a result of the wishes of some members to hand their money to the club, we’ve been working on allowing this via the website as a simple donation scheme via Hibernian Supporters and separate from anything else. This work is nearly finished and we’ll update when it is.

For the avoidance of doubt, other than the funds paid for the Pioneers table and the women’s team sponsorship vs Glasgow City, no cash has been passed to the club by way of donation or otherwise since the start of the year.

[wallpaperman]

We’ve not been putting the money into the club for a number of months now, since it was voted at the AGM that the Articles would be changed and that funds would be held - this has been reiterated a number of times since then.

As a result of the wishes of some members to hand their money to the club, we’ve been working on allowing this via the website as a simple donation scheme via Hibernian Supporters and separate from anything else. This work is nearly finished and we’ll update when it is.

For the avoidance of doubt, other than the funds paid for the Pioneers table and the women’s team sponsorship vs Glasgow City, no cash has been passed to the club by way of donation or otherwise since the start of the year.

Thanks for the clarity on the situation Daniel.

It’s definitely a good stopping off point for me and has made up my mind. When this started I had hoped that it would challenge the Hearts fans scheme (though knew it would never quite match their scale due to the circumstances their one was started in) and put real money into the club.

I can see this is never really going to happen. At best we probably have a couple of thousand regular contributors, if a few hundred decide to divert their money to the club it’s not really going to make much difference. I expect the majority will choose that the funds are held, and that’s fine, but for how long?

Anyway, I’ll always treasure the shirt with my name on it. :wink:

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Thanks for clarifying.
As above I had hoped that in addition to building up a significant block of shares to avoid any future risk to the club, it would be an additional income stream as per Hearts scheme. Neither is going to happen sadly.

[Daniel 1875]

We’re not going anywhere. As a collective we have a significant share in our club and we can and will play our part to ensure it’s as successful as possible.

The more people that stay with us or join us on that journey, the stronger we can be for the club.

Whether in good times or bad we’ll still be here, so I’d encourage anyone thinking about stopping payment to stick with us.

Everything we do is guided by members, and as an organisation we are far stronger now than we were 12 months ago. We’ll keep striving to ensure that our organisation is as strong as it possibly can be for the people who collectively own it, while also ensuring we are doing all we can to support the football club.

[Scorrie]

We’re not going anywhere. As a collective we have a significant share in our club and we can and will play our part to ensure it’s as successful as possible.

The more people that stay with us or join us on that journey, the stronger we can be for the club.

Whether in good times or bad we’ll still be here, so I’d encourage anyone thinking about stopping payment to stick with us.

Everything we do is guided by members, and as an organisation we are far stronger now than we were 12 months ago. We’ll keep striving to ensure that our organisation is as strong as it possibly can be for the people who collectively own it, while also ensuring we are doing all we can to support the football club.

Thanks for this. I was thinking of stopping my monthly contribution but will hang on in there.

[MelbourneHibees]

We’re not going anywhere. As a collective we have a significant share in our club and we can and will play our part to ensure it’s as successful as possible.

The more people that stay with us or join us on that journey, the stronger we can be for the club.

Whether in good times or bad we’ll still be here, so I’d encourage anyone thinking about stopping payment to stick with us.

Everything we do is guided by members, and as an organisation we are far stronger now than we were 12 months ago. We’ll keep striving to ensure that our organisation is as strong as it possibly can be for the people who collectively own it, while also ensuring we are doing all we can to support the football club.

Exactly this. I wish there was an appetite amongst the core of the support to buy into HSL.
140k a month Hearts effectively get for free.

Also of this nonsense which should be against SPFL rules if you ask me.

https://twitter.com/jonnyrmcfarlane/status/1592569582166093825?t=K5susuHox2E60JrRdIVruA&s=09

[green day]

Exactly this. I wish there was an appetite amongst the core of the support to buy into HSL.
140k a month Hearts effectively get for free.

Also of this nonsense which should be against SPFL rules if you ask me.

https://twitter.com/jonnyrmcfarlane/status/1592569582166093825?t=K5susuHox2E60JrRdIVruA&s=09

Gifting a club money is fine, its how it is portrayed that is hilarious -

BBC report merely states that they "made a profit of £3m" and later ""Boosted by players sales and ongoing benefactors' support, profit before tax of £1.7m was reported for the financial year,"

Its really poor reporting that they would have been in the crap if it wasnt for £4.5m of Andersons money !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63642577

[Lago]

Exactly this. I wish there was an appetite amongst the core of the support to buy into HSL.
140k a month Hearts effectively get for free.

Also of this nonsense which should be against SPFL rules if you ask me.

https://twitter.com/jonnyrmcfarlane/status/1592569582166093825?t=K5susuHox2E60JrRdIVruA&s=09
The Hearts scheme just seems much more attractive to their support than HSL is to the Hibs support, irrespective as to how it's reported Hearts have made a decent profit after a pretty lack lustre European run.

[Stairway 2 7]

The Hearts scheme just seems much more attractive to their support than HSL is to the Hibs support, irrespective as to how it's reported Hearts have made a decent profit after a pretty lack lustre European run.

There's is going towards players, ours is going to a rainy day fund. There was talks months ago that it would be separated so you could choose to put towards team, but nothing happened.

[banchoryhibs]

There's is going towards players, ours is going to a rainy day fund. There was talks months ago that it would be separated so you could choose to put towards team, but nothing happened.

As Daniel has said there will shortly be a facility on the HSL website to allow anyone who wishes to donate funds directly to the club to do so. I believe that the changes are now almost complete.

For various reasons this work has taken a wee while but I expect an announcement to be made very soon.

[chippy]

I’ve contributed to HSL since the beginning and will continue to do so. Purchasing the hospitality tables was a good use of our funds. I won’t be donating directly to the club. I want us to build up a large fund for the future. Who knows how the Gordon’s era will play out. Best to be ready for their eventual departure

[ancient hibee]

The Hearts scheme just seems much more attractive to their support than HSL is to the Hibs support, irrespective as to how it's reported Hearts have made a decent profit after a pretty lack lustre European run.

Their”lacklustre “European run will probably be worth an extra £1.5 million in profit and will not be included until their next accounts.

[Lago]

I’ve contributed to HSL since the beginning and will continue to do so. Purchasing the hospitality tables was a good use of our funds. I won’t be donating directly to the club. I want us to build up a large fund for the future. Who knows how the Gordon’s era will play out. Best to be ready for their eventual departure
And in the mean time Hearts continue to pull further away, while some Hibs fans contribute to a rainy day fund in the hope the Gordon’s will leave. Oh well it's a plan I suppose.

[Ringothedog]

Their”lacklustre “European run will probably be worth an extra £1.5 million in profit and will not be included until their next accounts.

It will be a lot more than £1.5m, it will be at least double that amount. It’s £400k for a win in the group stages and just under £3m for getting to the group stage, then add on gate receipts. Huge amount of money. They also have their FOH and benefactors money which is about £6m a year. They will have an advantage money wise of nearer £10m over us before a ball is kicked next season

[Ringothedog]

Their”lacklustre “European run will probably be worth an extra £1.5 million in profit and will not be included until their next accounts.

It will be a lot more than £1.5m, it will be at least double that amount. It’s £400k for a win in the group stages and just under £3m for getting to the group stage, then add on gate receipts. Huge amount of money. They also have their FOH and benefactors money which is about £6m a year. They will have an advantage money wise of nearer £10m over us before a ball is kicked next season

[MelbourneHibees]

It will be a lot more than £1.5m, it will be at least double that amount. It’s £400k for a win in the group stages and just under £3m for getting to the group stage, then add on gate receipts. Huge amount of money. They also have their FOH and benefactors money which is about £6m a year. They will have an advantage money wise of nearer £10m over us before a ball is kicked next season

Hearts neighbour reckons about 7 to 8 million from everything but also about 4 million or so in travel and stadium alterations they were required to make like new LED lights around the stadium.

[Greencore]

Why isn't there an option to donate to HSL when buying season tickets/tickets? I understand hibernian fc have nothing to do with them. But they could atleast work with then to promote them

[Pagan Hibernia]

Thanks for the clarity on the situation Daniel.

It’s definitely a good stopping off point for me and has made up my mind. When this started I had hoped that it would challenge the Hearts fans scheme (though knew it would never quite match their scale due to the circumstances their one was started in) and put real money into the club.

I can see this is never really going to happen. At best we probably have a couple of thousand regular contributors, if a few hundred decide to divert their money to the club it’s not really going to make much difference. I expect the majority will choose that the funds are held, and that’s fine, but for how long?

Anyway, I’ll always treasure the shirt with my name on it. :wink:

I would have thought the opposite. That many of not most would choose to give it to the club.

i’m in the HSL holding on to the cash camp btw. Gordon and Hibs have not earned my trust with my money.

[ancient hibee]

It will be a lot more than £1.5m, it will be at least double that amount. It’s £400k for a win in the group stages and just under £3m for getting to the group stage, then add on gate receipts. Huge amount of money. They also have their FOH and benefactors money which is about £6m a year. They will have an advantage money wise of nearer £10m over us before a ball is kicked next season

You seem to have missed out all the costs of competing in Europe which will be at least 40/50% of the revenue.

[monarch]

Exactly this. I wish there was an appetite amongst the core of the support to buy into HSL.
140k a month Hearts effectively get for free.

Also of this nonsense which should be against SPFL rules if you ask me.

https://twitter.com/jonnyrmcfarlane/status/1592569582166093825?t=K5susuHox2E60JrRdIVruA&s=09

Not sure why you feel it should be against SFA rules. Anderson’s donations are straightforward gifts, not even a debt for equity arrangement or soft loans. Nice work if you can get it. Wish we had such a benefactor.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not sure why you feel it should be against SFA rules. Anderson’s donations are straightforward gifts, not even a debt for equity arrangement or soft loans. Nice work if you can get it. Wish we had such a benefactor.

Ffp

[monarch]

Ffp
Ffp means what ?
Can’t keep up with these abbreviations.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ffp means what ?
Can’t keep up with these abbreviations.

Sorry he could be talking about fifa financial fair play.

[Hibbyradge]

What's this about hospitality tables?

I've contributed every month since the start and I've heard nothing from the organisers.

[chippy]

What's this about hospitality tables?

I've contributed every month since the start and I've heard nothing from the organisers.

You’ve not heard about the free draw for HSL current contributors that can get you and a friend hospitality places for one game? It’s been going on for a few weeks

[Hibbyradge]

You’ve not heard about the free draw for HSL current contributors that can get you and a friend hospitality places for one game? It’s been going on for a few weeks

News to me, sadly.

Do I need to do something?

[offshorehibby]

News to me, sadly.

Do I need to do something?

HSL have bought a table at one of the hospitality suites. You can go onto the HSL and put your name in the hat for a particular game, if successful and your name is drawn you get 2 places at the table for that game, If you're lucky enough to be drawn that's you out the running for the rest of the season.

Surprised you've not seen it as there's a regular thread on here and the Bounce reminding people when a particular game draw closes.

[Hibbyradge]

HSL have bought a table at one of the hospitality suites. You can go onto the HSL and put your name in the hat for a particular game, if successful and your name is drawn you get 2 places at the table for that game, If you're lucky enough to be drawn that's you out the running for the rest of the season.

Surprised you've not seen it as there's a regular thread on here and the Bounce reminding people when a particular game draw closes.

I'm surprised myself, tbh.

Thanks for the info.

[CentreLine]

I'm surprised myself, tbh.

Thanks for the info.

Offshore Hibby has covered it pretty well. I was one of the lucky winners earlier this year.

It’s the Pioneers Suite experience that the table is situated. The opt-in usually appears about ten days prior to each home league game. Keep an eye on here and Daniel usually puts a message up saying that the draw is open for the next home game.
It’s easy and free to enter. You only need to go in to your HSL account and scroll down to “PIONEERS OPT-IN, click on the box and you’re in.

If you are lucky enough to be drawn out of the hat then you will be notified by email that you have won a place for yourself plus one. The experience is to join a table of ten for the full corporate experience. Pre match meal, drinks included. Corporate seating in the lower west. Half time pie and drinks. And then full time as well. When the bar closes you then have access to the Albion Bar, which is open for you to purchase drinks if you require.

It is a brilliant initiative by HSL that puts money in to the club whilst offering its active members a rare opportunity to access that level of match day experience.

I thoroughly recommend it and would encourage lapsed or non members to activate an HSL account. It is a great way to contribute to the club as well as put this wholly supporter owned association in a position to safeguard the club in the event that shares come up for sale again or that it threaten in future. The more members there are the more that becomes possible.

[monarch]

Sorry he could be talking about fifa financial fair play.

Thanks for that.

Financial fair play was brought in to prevent teams spending more than they earn. Anderson’s donations can be considered as earned income as they’re in the accounts

The above does not ease my pain at seeing them in this position especially as the administration process legally previously enabled them to dodge a £28m debt but that’s financial law for you. 🤬

[nonshinyfinish]

Thanks for that.

Financial fair play was brought in to prevent teams spending more than they earn. Anderson’s donations can be considered as earned income as they’re in the accounts

The above does not ease my pain at seeing them in this position especially as the administration process legally previously enabled them to dodge a £28m debt but that’s financial law for you. 🤬

There is a limit to the amount that owners/backers/benefactors can put in over the course of the FFP period. Anderson's donations are allowed within FFP because they are below that limit.

[Golden Bear]

What's all this to do with the transfer window? (I'm being lazy and can't be bothered to trawl thru the entire thread)

[Hibbyradge]

Offshore Hibby has covered it pretty well. I was one of the lucky winners earlier this year.

It’s the Pioneers Suite experience that the table is situated. The opt-in usually appears about ten days prior to each home league game. Keep an eye on here and Daniel usually puts a message up saying that the draw is open for the next home game.
It’s easy and free to enter. You only need to go in to your HSL account and scroll down to “PIONEERS OPT-IN, click on the box and you’re in.

If you are lucky enough to be drawn out of the hat then you will be notified by email that you have won a place for yourself plus one. The experience is to join a table of ten for the full corporate experience. Pre match meal, drinks included. Corporate seating in the lower west. Half time pie and drinks. And then full time as well. When the bar closes you then have access to the Albion Bar, which is open for you to purchase drinks if you require.

It is a brilliant initiative by HSL that puts money in to the club whilst offering its active members a rare opportunity to access that level of match day experience.

I thoroughly recommend it and would encourage lapsed or non members to activate an HSL account. It is a great way to contribute to the club as well as put this wholly supporter owned association in a position to safeguard the club in the event that shares come up for sale again or that it threaten in future. The more members there are the more that becomes possible.

Thanks 👍

[nonshinyfinish]

What's all this to do with the transfer window? (I'm being lazy and can't be bothered to trawl thru the entire thread)

Only really need to read the first post (from June) – the poster wanted to know whether HSL money was going to the club or not and therefore whether it would boost available funds for the summer transfer window.

[hibsforeurope]

Not sure why you feel it should be against SFA rules. Anderson’s donations are straightforward gifts, not even a debt for equity arrangement or soft loans. Nice work if you can get it. Wish we had such a benefactor.

It does seen a bit wrong to me. The hearts benefactor is allowed to gift money but the owner of man City's friends, for example, aren't allowed to gift them money.

[nonshinyfinish]

It does seen a bit wrong to me. The hearts benefactor is allowed to gift money but the owner of man City's friends, for example, aren't allowed to gift them money.

Man City 'benefactors' can put in money in the same way, up to the same limit. The difference is that money below the limit would be peanuts to City while it's significant to Hearts. I can't remember the exact number but I think it's something like €30m over the three-year FFP period.

[Golden Bear]

Only really need to read the first post (from June) – the poster wanted to know whether HSL money was going to the club or not and therefore whether it would boost available funds for the summer transfer window.

Ah right. 👍

I'm someone who reads the daily newspaper from the back page inwards. 😄

[hibsforeurope]

Man City 'benefactors' can put in money in the same way, up to the same limit. The difference is that money below the limit would be peanuts to City while it's significant to Hearts. I can't remember the exact number but I think it's something like €30m over the three-year FFP period.

thanks. Didn't realise that it was a set figure, a percentage of turnover or profit for each club would be fairer.