Players all have to start somewhere

[dastardly8]

All players have to start somewhere , I remember Ronaldo going to Man Utd as a youngster and all the chat was too greedy with the ball not good enough for the premiership etc didn’t turn out too bad , not saying Tavares is in the same mould but the Portuguese have a knack of producing gems let’s see what happens.

[Keepthefaith]

All players have to start somewhere , I remember Ronaldo going to Man Utd as a youngster and all the chat was too greedy with the ball not good enough for the premiership etc didn’t turn out too bad , not saying Tavares is in the same mould but the Portuguese have a knack of producing gems let’s see what happens.

Totally agree but you do realise you're setting yourself up to be shot down on here with such sense! We've been crying out for pacey, direct attacking players, looks like we're getting the players in to fit with Johnson's style. Going to be exciting I think, maybe remind me of watching Newcastle under Keegan when I was a lad!

[Unseen work]

I don’t think anyone has any issue with signing Tavares, in fact I think most are quite excited.

I think what concerns some is the lack of known quality and experience in the first team to help them develop.

You look at the team man United Ronaldo went into, there was quality and experience all over the pitch to help him. That’s what, imo, our squad is missing to help get the best out of the youngsters we’ve signed.

Plenty of time left to correct it though so I remain optimistic.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I don’t think anyone has any issue with signing Tavares, in fact I think most are quite excited.

I think what concerns some is the lack of known quality and experience in the first team to help them develop.

You look at the team man United Ronaldo went into, there was quality and experience all over the pitch to help him. That’s what, imo, our squad is missing to help get the best out of the youngsters we’ve signed.

Plenty of time left to correct it though so I remain optimistic.

Totally this. We are getting a few folk on here and especially other social media having a go at folk voicing concern about our signings for being too negative. But it's a fact we cant get away from that our outfield signings lately lack experience of first team or top league football.

Melkersen .... Norwegian 2nd division
Kenneh ....... English reserve league football
Hauge ......... Norwegian 2nd division
Bushiri ........ Loaned to about 4 clubs before us with just a handful of appearances for all of them and AFAIK barely kicked a ball for Norwich.
Miller .......... Yes first team football, but it's hard to say how tough a league the 'A' league is compared to what he'll face in Scotland.
Tavares ....... Portuguese 2nd division.

I'm not having a go at the players or the leagues they played in as such, but that is 6 players with very limited experience between them and it would seem a bit remiss of us not to sign some experience to go with them. As I said on another thread, it's not exactly panic stations, but if our next two signings are in the same vein as that group we would have to ask exactly what the club expects from next season with such an inexperienced bunch of signings.

[matty_f]

there was a saying that used to be used in football, “if you’re good enough, you’re old enough”. Interesting concept.

[Forza Fred]

Totally this. We are getting a few folk on here and especially other social media having a go at folk voicing concern about our signings for being too negative. But it's a fact we cant get away from that our outfield signings lately lack experience of first team or top league football.

Melkersen .... Norwegian 2nd division
Kenneh ....... English reserve league football
Hauge ......... Norwegian 2nd division
Bushiri ........ Loaned to about 4 clubs before us with just a handful of appearances for all of them and AFAIK barely kicked a ball for Norwich.
Miller .......... Yes first team football, but it's hard to say how tough a league the 'A' league is compared to what he'll face in Scotland.
Tavares ....... Portuguese 2nd division.

I'm not having a go at the players or the leagues they played in as such, but that is 6 players with very limited experience between them and it would seem a bit remiss of us not to sign some experience to go with them. As I said on another thread, it's not exactly panic stations, but if our next two signings are in the same vein as that group we would have to ask exactly what the club expects from next season with such an inexperienced bunch of signings.

Interesting.

Definition of ‘top league’ experience is surely a matter of opinion though.

Many I know certainly don’t consider the SPFL to be a ‘top league’.

And how many first team games makes a player ‘experienced’?

Again, not necessarily disagreeing with you just seeking clarification.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Interesting.

Definition of ‘top league’ experience is surely a matter of opinion though.

Many I know certainly don’t consider the SPFL to be a ‘top league’.

And how many first team games makes a player ‘experienced’?

Again, not necessarily disagreeing with you just seeking clarification.

By top league I simply meant the top league in the country they came from to us, EG Norway and Portugal ... very limited in every case apart from Miller, don't worry mate, I'm not expecting us to be signing guys from Europe's so called 'top 5' leagues :greengrin I would guess a player would have to have a full season of first team football under his belt to be considered reasonably experienced, mind some learn quicker than others.

Put it this way, 20 year old Josh Doig's 60 odd first team games for Hibs would probably be more than the whole of that group of 6 players put together if you took out Millers 50 odd games for his last club and nobody is saying he's anywhere near the finished article.

As I said I'm not pre judging these players will to succeed or ability ... but it's a long shot that they will all make a dent in the first team just going by past experience and given that it seems to me prudent to sign two or three known quantities to go along with them.

Put it this way. If we don't and 4 of these players and Marshall become regulars in a team that has a great season everybody will be calling everybody at Hibs from the owner to the manager geniuses. If they put 3 or 4 of them into the team and its a car crash we will end up with another 2,000 strong 'gathering' in the car park at the end of the season.

Fans aren't very forgiving of a club that signs known players and gets it wrong ... they will be even less forgiving of a club that signs a bunch of untried kids and gets it wrong, especially when fans can point to a pile of posts on here pre season suggesting signing some experience might be a good idea.

[Forza Fred]

By top league I simply meant the top league in the country they came from to us, EG Norway and Portugal ... very limited in every case apart from Miller, don't worry mate, I'm not expecting us to be signing guys from Europe's so called 'top 5' leagues :greengrin I would guess a player would have to have a full season of first team football under his belt to be considered reasonably experienced, mind some learn quicker than others.

Put it this way, 20 year old Josh Doig's 60 odd first team games for Hibs would probably be more than the whole of that group of 6 players put together if you took out Millers 50 odd games for his last club and nobody is saying he's anywhere near the finished article.

As I said I'm not pre judging these players will to succeed or ability ... but it's a long shot that they will all make a dent in the first team just going by past experience and given that it seems to me prudent to sign two or three known quantities to go along with them.

Put it this way. If we don't and 4 of these players and Marshall become regulars in a team that has a great season everybody will be calling everybody at Hibs from the owner to the manager geniuses. If they put 3 or 4 of them into the team and its a car crash we will end up with another 2,000 strong 'gathering' in the car park at the end of the season.

Fans aren't very forgiving of a club that signs known players and gets it wrong ... they will be even less forgiving of a club that signs a bunch of untried kids and gets it wrong.

Nae bother, agree with nearly all of the above.

I may be considered a nervous Nellie, and all these apparently inexperienced players may turn out to play like superstars…but to an armchair observer like me it too seems that we are still putting the building blocks in the team for the FUTURE, when I want players. , or at least some players for NOW

I’m concerned, but not critical….as I said they may all be undiscovered gems…and I won’t judge them until I have seen them play.

[J-C]

Totally this. We are getting a few folk on here and especially other social media having a go at folk voicing concern about our signings for being too negative. But it's a fact we cant get away from that our outfield signings lately lack experience of first team or top league football.

Melkersen .... Norwegian 2nd division
Kenneh ....... English reserve league football
Hauge ......... Norwegian 2nd division
Bushiri ........ Loaned to about 4 clubs before us with just a handful of appearances for all of them and AFAIK barely kicked a ball for Norwich.
Miller .......... Yes first team football, but it's hard to say how tough a league the 'A' league is compared to what he'll face in Scotland.
Tavares ....... Portuguese 2nd division.

I'm not having a go at the players or the leagues they played in as such, but that is 6 players with very limited experience between them and it would seem a bit remiss of us not to sign some experience to go with them. As I said on another thread, it's not exactly panic stations, but if our next two signings are in the same vein as that group we would have to ask exactly what the club expects from next season with such an inexperienced bunch of signings.


A week into the window with around 11 weeks to go and the bed wetting is getting ridiculous now, get a grip ffs man, you're better that this sort of pish post.

[Dalianwanda]

Marshall, McGinn, Hanlon, Stevenson, Newell, Nesbit, Doidge

Just off the top on my head a fair bit of experience there. We only have so many spaces in the team. We’ve still more to come in and the managers stated he wants a central midfielder & a striker at least.

I can’t wait to see how our young bucks are going to perform. Exciting times though i do understand the concern. Just wish it wasn’t brought up every time we bring a player in.

[Since452]

I'm very, very excited about this season. This may come back to haunt me but i have a feeling we are going to be very entertained.

[Iain G]

A week into the window with around 11 weeks to go and the bed wetting is getting ridiculous now, get a grip ffs man, you're better that this sort of pish post.

It's been a great start to the transfer window, we are never this active so early! 11 weeks to go to get the balance of the team right

[B.H.F.C]

It's been a great start to the transfer window, we are never this active so early! 11 weeks to go to get the balance of the team right

Not 11 weeks. Season starts in three, league in six, and a derby in seven.

I get that there may be tweaks to the squad right up to the window closing but we’ve got a tough start, we need to be ready to go right from the off.

[Iain G]

Not 11 weeks. Season starts in three, league in six, and a derby in seven.

I get that there may be tweaks to the squad right up to the window closing but we’ve got a tough start, we need to be ready to go right from the off.

Loads of time still 😁

[superfurryhibby]

Totally this. We are getting a few folk on here and especially other social media having a go at folk voicing concern about our signings for being too negative. But it's a fact we cant get away from that our outfield signings lately lack experience of first team or top league football.

Melkersen .... Norwegian 2nd division
Kenneh ....... English reserve league football
Hauge ......... Norwegian 2nd division
Bushiri ........ Loaned to about 4 clubs before us with just a handful of appearances for all of them and AFAIK barely kicked a ball for Norwich.
Miller .......... Yes first team football, but it's hard to say how tough a league the 'A' league is compared to what he'll face in Scotland.
Tavares ....... Portuguese 2nd division.

I'm not having a go at the players or the leagues they played in as such, but that is 6 players with very limited experience between them and it would seem a bit remiss of us not to sign some experience to go with them. As I said on another thread, it's not exactly panic stations, but if our next two signings are in the same vein as that group we would have to ask exactly what the club expects from next season with such an inexperienced bunch of signings.

You can add Delferriere, Tait and Mckay to that list, as well as the laddie we signed from the USA. Clarke and Henderson are hardly veterans either.

After the farce of last season and the nature of some of our early business (Bushiri...FFS) people are rightly expressing concern around the direction the club is heading. We just have to wait and see wait and see what happens, in the meantime I think it's fair enough for folk to express their views. Your post was hardly bed wetting, it probably reflect the views of a great many of us and, call me fickle, but I reserve the right to remain sceptical.

[matty_f]

Hibs are playing the long game a bit here, and we won’t know necessarily if it’s paid off for a couple of seasons, really - ideally the players that have been brought in and those still to be brought in hit the ground running and the conversation is more positive.

I’m less bothered about age than i am ability. Tait and Mackay were both very highly rated and regarded when we signed them and, for me, are examples of the sort of moves we should be making in the market -Nisbet, (John) McGinn and Magennis are/were similar - doing well at smaller clubs and in the early stages of their careers. SJM was good in his first season but had developed massively by the time he left.

We are fairly impatient though, JDH has been written off by some at 22/23, Rocky at 22 is already written off by some.

Hibs need to find the balance though, jam tomorrow won’t cut it with much of the support, however good that jam might end up being.

I do think experience is important, but it’s not the be all and end all, the most important thing is we sign the best players we can regardless of their age or background, and the manager turns them all into a winning team.

[superfurryhibby]

Hibs are playing the long game a bit here, and we won’t know necessarily if it’s paid off for a couple of seasons, really - ideally the players that have been brought in and those still to be brought in hit the ground running and the conversation is more positive.

I’m less bothered about age than i am ability. Tait and Mackay were both very highly rated and regarded when we signed them and, for me, are examples of the sort of moves we should be making in the market -Nisbet, (John) McGinn and Magennis are/were similar - doing well at smaller clubs and in the early stages of their careers. SJM was good in his first season but had developed massively by the time he left.

We are fairly impatient though, JDH has been written off by some at 22/23, Rocky at 22 is already written off by some.

Hibs need to find the balance though, jam tomorrow won’t cut it with much of the support, however good that jam might end up being.

I do think experience is important, but it’s not the be all and end all, the most important thing is we sign the best players we can regardless of their age or background, and the manager turns them all into a winning team.

You can't have it both ways Matty. JDH is being written off after a season where he played a lot and most of us recognised that he just isn't that good, regardless of age. Rocky was absolutely dire, he looked like a non-league standard footballer, again regardless of age.

Tait and McKay, both seem symptomatic of what many of us feel is a bizarre signing policy. tait never even got onto the field, he was punted straight out on loan and McKay was given an opportunity to play after injury.

Hibs fans are backing the team, most of us know that Gordon is spending money, but the strategy seems askew. We want success now, not some promised land that will never materialise. Signing the youngsters is a reasonable part of building toward it, but we need players who can come and improve the side now. The Gordons need to get it right this season or fickleness will be the least of his issues with the fans.

[matty_f]

You can't have it both ways Matty. JDH is being written off after a season where he played a lot and most of us recognised that he just isn't that good, regardless of age. Rocky was absolutely dire, he looked like a non-league standard footballer, again regardless of age.

Tait and McKay, both seem symptomatic of what many of us feel is a bizarre signing policy. tait never even got onto the field, he was punted straight out on loan and McKay was given an opportunity to play after injury.

Hibs fans are backing the team, most of us know that Gordon is spending money, but the strategy seems askew. We want success now, not some promised land that will never materialise. Signing the youngsters is a reasonable part of building toward it, but we need players who can come and improve the side now. The Gordons need to get it right this season or fickleness will be the least of his issues with the fans.

I’m not sure what you mean by not having it both ways? What both ways am I asking for?

[Springbank]

You can't have it both ways Matty. JDH is being written off after a season where he played a lot and most of us recognised that he just isn't that good, regardless of age. Rocky was absolutely dire, he looked like a non-league standard footballer, again regardless of age.

Tait and McKay, both seem symptomatic of what many of us feel is a bizarre signing policy. tait never even got onto the field, he was punted straight out on loan and McKay was given an opportunity to play after injury.

Hibs fans are backing the team, most of us know that Gordon is spending money, but the strategy seems askew. We want success now, not some promised land that will never materialise. Signing the youngsters is a reasonable part of building toward it, but we need players who can come and improve the side now. The Gordons need to get it right this season or fickleness will be the least of his issues with the fans.

I agree with the above

I think the biggest weaknesses the manager faced coming into the club are all down the spine

I like the cut of Johnson's jib & hope he's been saying to JDH "lot of people say I should sell you, that you're too timid for the midfield at a club this,size. Are they right or are you gonna prove them wrong?"

Fwiw I'd sell jdh but would love to be proved wrong. Only jdh can do that, out there, on the pitch

[NAE NOOKIE]

A week into the window with around 11 weeks to go and the bed wetting is getting ridiculous now, get a grip ffs man, you're better that this sort of pish post.

Well, for a guy who seems to be suggesting I'm over reacting aren't you doing the same thing regards my post? All I'm saying is that I have a concern if our signing policy continues in this vein until the window closes and I'm far from alone in that. I've tempered every post on this subject by acknowledging there's plenty of the window to go and we still have time to get in a few players with experience of the Scottish premiership or the likes of the English championship .... Liam Fontain always springs to mind, a pile of experience with Bristol City and did a great job for us, you can chuck Rob Jones into that mix as well.

It's not 'bed wetting' to see a trend developing and be concerned that if it doesn't adapt a bit we could end up with a pile of untried inexperienced kids waiting to be punted into a team that had a terrible season last year without the first clue as to whether or not these kids can turn that team into a far better one.

So far as I can see this is a reasonable debate based on a 'what if' scenario .... nobody is piling into the club over signing promising kids, just expressing a concern as to what the outcome might be if that's all we do before the window closed.

[J-C]

Well, for a guy who seems to be suggesting I'm over reacting aren't you doing the same thing regards my post? All I'm saying is that I have a concern if our signing policy continues in this vein until the window closes and I'm far from alone in that. I've tempered every post on this subject by acknowledging there's plenty of the window to go and we still have time to get in a few players with experience of the Scottish premiership or the likes of the English championship .... Liam Fontain always springs to mind, a pile of experience with Bristol City and did a great job for us, you can chuck Rob Jones into that mix as well.

It's not 'bed wetting' to see a trend developing and be concerned that if it doesn't adapt a bit we could end up with a pile of untried inexperienced kids waiting to be punted into a team that had a terrible season last year without the first clue as to whether or not these kids can turn that team into a far better one.

So far as I can see this is a reasonable debate based on a 'what if' scenario .... nobody is piling into the club over signing promising kids, just expressing a concern as to what the outcome might be if that's all we do before the window closed.

Our biggest problem this past 2-3 seasons is pace and decent young potential. We had pace with Boyle but we added Wright, Murphy, Gogic etc all players with experience but with zero pace a directness, add Newell to that if you want.

I like the look of these young lads but I also acknowledge we need couple of experienced players in to balance, these may come when the English players are back and we'll know better who we can get, McGeady is a decent starter.

This is just the start of a complete overhaul of this squad, give him a bit more time to see exactly who he brings in before I start to worry.

I've been bored to death with the same old one pace Hibs team we've watched this past 2 seasons, let's hope these young lads can show us a lot more than the drivel that was on show last season.

[WhileTheChief..]

There are very few players that we've let go around age 22/23 that have gone on to have successful careers. We're generally pretty good at making that call.

If, by that age, you're not showing something, then the chances are you never will.

Porteous was 18 when he got his chance. It didn't take 4 or 5 years to realise he was a player.

[superfurryhibby]

I’m not sure what you mean by not having it both ways? What both ways am I asking for?

Pm me :wink:

The age and writing players off, like JDH and Rocky. Yes, they’re still young, but in my view age is no barrier to gashness.

[Eyrie]

You can't have it both ways Matty. JDH is being written off after a season where he played a lot and most of us recognised that he just isn't that good, regardless of age. Rocky was absolutely dire, he looked like a non-league standard footballer, again regardless of age.

Tait and McKay, both seem symptomatic of what many of us feel is a bizarre signing policy. tait never even got onto the field, he was punted straight out on loan and McKay was given an opportunity to play after injury.

Hibs fans are backing the team, most of us know that Gordon is spending money, but the strategy seems askew. We want success now, not some promised land that will never materialise. Signing the youngsters is a reasonable part of building toward it, but we need players who can come and improve the side now. The Gordons need to get it right this season or fickleness will be the least of his issues with the fans.

It was a condition of us buying Tait that he went back to Raith on loan until Christmas. And in his defence, the manager who chucked him out on loan was Maloney so I wouldn't use that against him.

[jacomo]

A week into the window with around 11 weeks to go and the bed wetting is getting ridiculous now, get a grip ffs man, you're better that this sort of pish post.


Massively disproportionate response here.

Let people air their views ffs, and if you disagree explain why. no bed wetting I could see.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Our biggest problem this past 2-3 seasons is pace and decent young potential. We had pace with Boyle but we added Wright, Murphy, Gogic etc all players with experience but with zero pace a directness, add Newell to that if you want.

I like the look of these young lads but I also acknowledge we need couple of experienced players in to balance, these may come when the English players are back and we'll know better who we can get, McGeady is a decent starter.

This is just the start of a complete overhaul of this squad, give him a bit more time to see exactly who he brings in before I start to worry.

I've been bored to death with the same old one pace Hibs team we've watched this past 2 seasons, let's hope these young lads can show us a lot more than the drivel that was on show last season.

Well that's a bit more reasoned than just giving my post a doing mate :greengrin

As it is I agree with all of this ...... as you say lack of pace has been a big deal and I would add a lack of athleticism to that. If these kids can add that along with technical ability then I'll be happy to see all of them get a game. What we certainly need is goals from midfield and I would pay a kings ransom for one midfield player who can run ahead of the man in possession to take a pass and a couple who can get into the box ... two areas we have been sadly lacking in for years.

[J-C]

Well that's a bit more reasoned than just giving my post a doing mate :greengrin

As it is I agree with all of this ...... as you say lack of pace has been a big deal and I would add a lack of athleticism to that. If these kids can add that along with technical ability then I'll be happy to see all of them get a game. What we certainly need is goals from midfield and I would pay a kings ransom for one midfield player who can run ahead of the man in possession to take a pass and a couple who can get into the box ... two areas we have been sadly lacking in for years.


A big season for Magennis, he seems the exact player in midfield you're describing but his injury problems have hindered him and his development, I'd hope the manager realises that and brings in someone similar but who can play more than 3 games without being injured again.