A Kick-in at the football

[1875godsgift]

:greengrin

From the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61784848

Rule changes seem be happening more often these days, but is this a backward step?

[Green Reaper]

:greengrin

From the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61784848

Rule changes seem be happening more often these days, but is this a backward step?
Typical, we wait for ever to get a Manager to sort out our throw-ins and now they are looking at changing it 😅

[Since452]

Why not time limit throw-ins instead? Don't know why people want to play around with rules all the time. Couldn't tell you what was offside these days.

[mcohibs]

Why not time limit throw-ins instead? Don't know why people want to play around with rules all the time. Couldn't tell you what was offside these days.

Why? There's absolutely nothing wrong with throw ins

[Tyler Durden]

Arsene Wenger is full of sh*t ideas it seems

[Eyrie]

Why? There's absolutely nothing wrong with throw ins

Other than the ten minutes wait for a throw in to be taken about twenty yards up the pitch from where the ball went out?

Kicks ins will be the same.

[easty]

I actually think it’s a pretty good idea. Should lead to more attacking chances.

[Nicho87]

Stupid idea

There is then the issue that winning a throw in the last 18 is more threatening than a corner.

Keep throw ins

What next

[Since452]

Think Wenger needs to go for a lie down somewhere.

[J-C]

Maybe stop players from stealing yards every throw in and getting away with foul throws all the time.

[JimBHibees]

So nstead of long throws every team will launch it into the box with the big guys up, great idea :rolleyes:

[Brightside]

Kick Ins have been in youth football for years. Unfortunately its ruined by dick head coaches telling the kids to punt it from the sidelines. Its supposed to be a simple pass in.

[Newry Hibs]

Maybe players can only take a 'kick-in' with their 'wrong' foot.

[Carheenlea]

Basically just a hoofers charter. Will suit clubs like Ross County, Airdrie and Hearts.

[Stairway 2 7]

Would need to scrap not being offside from a throw/kick in, as it would be a farce and more dangerous than a corner

[EdinMike]

Surely it would have to be played along the deck though ? Or a throw in basically would become a “free” free-kick !

[Waxy]

Nah just stuff that. Poor idea

[Waxy]

Maybe they’d be better modifying the throw in.
Perhaps allowing one handed throws.
Quick low one handed throw ins would be better than kick ins

[HappyAsHellas]

If I remember correctly the kick in was tried in a youth world cup tournament in the 80's and was never heard of again.

[Kato]

Pele suggested kick-ins 30 odd year ago. Another thing he suggested at the same time was short corners from the 18 yard box line if the ball went out for a corner within that area.

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[Is It On....]

I thought this was a back to 80s thread when I saw the title 😂

[Waxy]

Next thing that needs changed is the penalty kick imo.
Most are given when there’s hardly a threat.
Free kick wherever the foul was commited is what i’d do.

[Frazerbob]

I thought this was a back to 80s thread when I saw the title 😂

Haha me too!

[mcohibs]

Rubbish idea. Teams with wider tracks at the side of their pitch would gain an advantage by having a longer run up

[Pagan Hibernia]

Think Wenger needs to go for a lie down somewhere.

so do I. I was his biggest fan with his wonderful Arsenal teams of 98-04, but he’s lost the plot with some of these ideas.

[easty]

Rubbish idea. Teams with wider tracks at the side of their pitch would gain an advantage by having a longer run up

What would they need a longer run up for?

[easty]

so do I. I was his biggest fan with his wonderful Arsenal teams of 98-04, but he’s lost the plot with some of these ideas.

I’ve never liked him, but I like this idea.

Dunno why anyone has any strong affection for the throw in? It’s a **** part of the game. You’ll occasionally get a guy with a long throw that’s quite exciting, usually not though.

[007]

If it is to combat time wasting they'd be better off playing halves of 30 minutes and stopping the clock when the ball goes dead.

[Mibbes Aye]

If you have any involvement with children's/youth football, you will be well aware that kick-ins are how restarts take place from the outset. When it comes the time to introduce throw-ins it's hard to see it as anything other than anachronistic - it just looks like it belongs in a bygone age, as it bears little relation to any other skills you are hoping to develop.

I hear (or see) the points about what is to stop players from blootering it but to be honest, there is nothing currently to stop a player throwing the ball back a little and their team-mate blootering it up the park. And anyone familiar with the game will surely know fine well that blootering it up the park tends to just give away possession.

So, while it may not be a perfect replacement for a throw-in, is it a better replacement? Almost certainly - if nothing else it makes it easier to keep the ball on the deck. It should also be easier to retain possession, which should be a feature of a forced restart. I would be temted by the time limit notion for restarts but at the same time, I think every regulation that is added (as opposed to replaced) is an extra burden.

As far as corners go, I think they are somewhat outmoded as well. If I shoot, it's goalbound, and a defender gets the teensiest touch on it to steer it out, then my team gets rewarded by getting a dead ball in the corner of the pitch and the defence gets every chance to regroup and reposition. And some ridiculous amount of corners don't directly lead to goals, can't remember the number but it is huge, so the reward or redress seems relatively low. I cannot think of a better alternative to corners of the top of my head. About the only thing that sounds theoretically fair is a kick-in from the bye-line roughly where the ball crossed it, but I'm not even certain that is fair - it sounds like an indirect free-kick in the box (another nonsense!)

[Stairway 2 7]

If you have any involvement with children's/youth football, you will be well aware that kick-ins are how restarts take place from the outset. When it comes the time to introduce throw-ins it's hard to see it as anything other than anachronistic - it just looks like it belongs in a bygone age, as it bears little relation to any other skills you are hoping to develop.

I hear (or see) the points about what is to stop players from blootering it but to be honest, there is nothing currently to stop a player throwing the ball back a little and their team-mate blootering it up the park. And anyone familiar with the game will surely know fine well that blootering it up the park tends to just give away possession.

So, while it may not be a perfect replacement for a throw-in, is it a better replacement? Almost certainly - if nothing else it makes it easier to keep the ball on the deck. It should also be easier to retain possession, which should be a feature of a forced restart. I would be temted by the time limit notion for restarts but at the same time, I think every regulation that is added (as opposed to replaced) is an extra burden.

As far as corners go, I think they are somewhat outmoded as well. If I shoot, it's goalbound, and a defender gets the teensiest touch on it to steer it out, then my team gets rewarded by getting a dead ball in the corner of the pitch and the defence gets every chance to regroup and reposition. And some ridiculous amount of corners don't directly lead to goals, can't remember the number but it is huge, so the reward or redress seems relatively low. I cannot think of a better alternative to corners of the top of my head. About the only thing that sounds theoretically fair is a kick-in from the bye-line roughly where the ball crossed it, but I'm not even certain that is fair - it sounds like an indirect free-kick in the box (another nonsense!)

Can't compare under 10s to adults who can kick it 80 yards. The reason you can't pass it and play it long from a throw now is, one you need to control it unless you're volleying it with no control and two time you control a player will be on you. Nothing like a dead ball when you can get swing and pace. Any kick in from 18 to 40 yards will be swung to the 6 yard box, as there is no offside.

You'd be as well signing a 6 foot 2 plus stricker to win the battles.

To be fair it will never happen. Can see a stop clock happening though and the talk is around 35 minutes a half

[Mibbes Aye]

Can't compare under 10s to adults who can kick it 80 yards. The reason you can't pass it and play it long from a throw now is, one you need to control it unless you're volleying it with no control and two time you control a player will be on you. Nothing like a dead ball when you can get swing and pace. Any kick in from 18 to 40 yards will be swung to the 6 yard box, as there is no offside.

You'd be as well signing a 6 foot 2 plus stricker to win the battles.

To be fair it will never happen. Can see a stop clock happening though and the talk is around 35 minutes a half

Under 10s play on much smaller pitches than adults.The ball would end up three pitches away if you hit it 80 yards.

The teams have fewer players as well, which is more relevant. That means there is a degree of space to lump the ball into, if so inclined, though few decent coaches would encourage belting it into space to see who was fastest over 20 metres, that would undermine the whole ethos of coaching at that age.

Also, if throw-ins are abandoned then why would you retain the no-offside element in its replacement?

[Stairway 2 7]

Under 10s play on much smaller pitches than adults.The ball would end up three pitches away if you hit it 80 yards.

The teams have fewer players as well, which is more relevant. That means there is a degree of space to lump the ball into, if so inclined, though few decent coaches would encourage belting it into space to see who was fastest over 20 metres, that would undermine the whole ethos of coaching at that age.

Also, if throw-ins are abandoned then why would you retain the no-offside element in its replacement?

Even if offside ended then the line will be about 20 yards. Rather than getting defenders up when there is a free kick at touchline 20 yards from the corner, teams will want taller players as it will happen so often. It will just be a game of long crosses, like dozens of free kicks in the opposition half

[Mibbes Aye]

Even if offside ended then the line will be about 20 yards. Rather than getting defenders up when there is a free kick at touchline 20 yards from the corner, teams will want taller players as it will happen so often. It will just be a game of long crosses, like dozens of free kicks in the opposition half

I think you have answered the opposite of what I asked. My point was about having offside, not scrapping it.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think you have answered the opposite of what I asked. My point was about having offside, not scrapping it.

Sorry I meant keeping it the line will be 20 as it is for free kicks now, scrap it and there will be no line like a corner.

If they have offside it will be constant attacking free kicks and var checks. Scrap it and testing the keeper jostling and constant var checks

[Mibbes Aye]

Sorry I meant keeping it the line will be 20 as it is for free kicks now, scrap it and there will be no line like a corner.

If they have offside it will be constant attacking free kicks and var checks. Scrap it and testing the keeper jostling and constant var checks

i don't think it would. There are only so many points on the byeline you can genuinely whip it in from to get the angle and elevation you've described. And even if you can, it is far too easy to defend against.

A lot of the time you would be relying on loft to get it where you are describing and then you've lost the pace on the ball and it is even easier still to defend and counter-attack from, which is why you so rarely see it at corners.

If you have possession you need movement and you need to draw the opposition out of shape to create overloads. I struggle to see why one would throw that away, just for a hit and hope into a small pocket on the edge of the box.

[Stairway 2 7]

i don't think it would. There are only so many points on the byeline you can genuinely whip it in from to get the angle and elevation you've described. And even if you can, it is far too easy to defend against.

A lot of the time you would be relying on loft to get it where you are describing and then you've lost the pace on the ball and it is even easier still to defend and counter-attack from, which is why you so rarely see it at corners.

If you have possession you need movement and you need to draw the opposition out of shape to create overloads. I struggle to see why one would throw that away, just for a hit and hope into a small pocket on the edge of the box.

Pretty much every free kick 40 yards from touch just now gets played long, so would kick ins.

Even in the defending half it would change the game. If a defending team gets a throw in near their own touch the attacking team push up and put pressure, now teams could get it out of danger deep into the other half

[J-C]

Simple way to make sure it doesn't become a free kick scenario is to limit the distance the ball can be kicked in, or it maybe has to be played on the deck.

[Brightside]

Simple way to make sure it doesn't become a free kick scenario is to limit the distance the ball can be kicked in, or it maybe has to be played on the deck.

That’s the rule in youth football. But it’s never policed. There is no real benefit. I’d go with some of the other changes before this. The 30 min half is fine based on the ball being in play. That removes all the time wasting rubbish out of play.

[Brightside]

Under 10s play on much smaller pitches than adults.The ball would end up three pitches away if you hit it 80 yards.

The teams have fewer players as well, which is more relevant. That means there is a degree of space to lump the ball into, if so inclined, though few decent coaches would encourage belting it into space to see who was fastest over 20 metres, that would undermine the whole ethos of coaching at that age.

Also, if throw-ins are abandoned then why would you retain the no-offside element in its replacement?

Loads of coaches (even at the so called best teams) encourage or ignore long kick ins.

[Mibbes Aye]

Pretty much every free kick 40 yards from touch just now gets played long, so would kick ins.

Even in the defending half it would change the game. If a defending team gets a throw in near their own touch the attacking team push up and put pressure, now teams could get it out of danger deep into the other half

I doubt pretty much every free kick does. And I think it's a stretch to say kick-ins would, just like freekicks in the middle part of the park don't - unless it's a lay-off for a shor from distance. But most of them don't go in. And most hopeful balls into the box won't lead to a goal and will likely give away possession so why would you?

As for changing the game, surely that's a given, no? By definition, replacing throw-ns with a kick-in is a change and there will be consequences. The history of football is littered with changes and invariably someone comes up with an innovation to gain a marginal edge, then someone else comes up with a way of countering it and so on and so on. I'm sure this wouldn't be any different. I'm also sure that there have been tons of fundamental changes to the game in my time watching football - the passback rule, the offside rule, the substitute rule, VAR etc etc. There's hardly an angry mob, baying for those changes to be reversed, even though some of them had people borderline apoplectic at the time :greengrin

Anyway, getting back to the OP, I think when you are used to seeing kick-ins, drilling them etc and then compare them to throw-ins it's hard not to wonder why we persist with throw-ins, they just seem a bit out-of-date like the penny farthing. As I said I don't think kick-ins are perfect, far from it, but for me they are preferable to throw-ins.

[Mibbes Aye]

Loads of coaches (even at the so called best teams) encourage or ignore long kick ins.

That says more about their merits as a coach than it says about the merits of kick ins.

[Brightside]

That says more about their merits as a coach than it says about the merits of kick ins.

Totally. I just think it probably the last thing that needs changed in pro football.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

That says more about their merits as a coach than it says about the merits of kick ins.

I’m sure Bielsa, Guardiola and Nagelsmann are gutted to hear you think they’re ***** coaches mate


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[Stairway 2 7]

Mirror talking about it yesterday. I'd agree it's far down the list of any problems in football just now. Think a ball on play clock has the potential to stop all time wasting, from subs, injuries, throw ins ect

Lineker isn't convinced. He tweeted on Monday evening: "Not sure it’s a good idea. Will slow the game down as every throw-in in the opponents half becomes a freekick. If you want to change something; allow players to take quick free-kicks, even to themselves. Punish those who foul, not those who are fouled. Would speed the game up too."

Kick-ins have been trialed before. As reported by Football365, leagues in England, Belgium and Hungary all tested the concept during the 1994-95 campaign. The trial failed, with the new-look 'throw-ins' effectively becoming free-kicks when awarded in the opposition half.

"It was a pathetic experiment and it was better when we went back to proper football the following season," a St Albans City player told the club's matchday programme when asked about kick-ins in 1998

And football 365

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-fifa-ideas-kick-ins-kicked-touch-arsene-wenger
FIFA and Wenger ideas of kick-ins should be kicked straight back into touch

[Mibbes Aye]

Mirror talking about it yesterday. I'd agree it's far down the list of any problems in football just now. Think a ball on play clock has the potential to stop all time wasting, from subs, injuries, throw ins ect

Lineker isn't convinced. He tweeted on Monday evening: "Not sure it’s a good idea. Will slow the game down as every throw-in in the opponents half becomes a freekick. If you want to change something; allow players to take quick free-kicks, even to themselves. Punish those who foul, not those who are fouled. Would speed the game up too."

Kick-ins have been trialed before. As reported by Football365, leagues in England, Belgium and Hungary all tested the concept during the 1994-95 campaign. The trial failed, with the new-look 'throw-ins' effectively becoming free-kicks when awarded in the opposition half.

"It was a pathetic experiment and it was better when we went back to proper football the following season," a St Albans City player told the club's matchday programme when asked about kick-ins in 1998

And football 365

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-fifa-ideas-kick-ins-kicked-touch-arsene-wenger
FIFA and Wenger ideas of kick-ins should be kicked straight back into touch

I'm not averse to the notion of quick restarts and basically passing to yourself, it's worth looking at I guess. Anyway, if we go back to my original post I'm merely stating my opinion which is that having been used to coaching with the ball at foot, it felt a bit silly to then introduce this weird way of restarting the game by holding and throwing the ball, with all its own little rules.

And if I was compiling my top ten list of footballing phrases that make my ears bleed, 'he's a long-throw specialist' would make the cut, just behind 'he needs to get his head down and run' and other utterly depressing statements.

Anyway, I know better now, because some St Alban's player who tried it nearly thirty years ago didn't like it, that's me told then :agree: :greengrin

I don't know if you read the piece you linked to but I'm amazed it got past the sub-editor, it is truly awful. Most of it isn't about throw-ins for a start. A lot of it is the writer's opinion being presented as fact (he would fit in comfortably on some threads on here :greengrin). When he does talk about kick-ins/throw-ins he basically relies on the St Alban's manager from thirty years ago, who didn't like the idea either. The funny bit in the article is how keen the writer is to burnish the credentials of the manager - seemingly he is infallible because he played 100 times for Brentford and he does a bit of work for charity :faf:

[Mibbes Aye]

Totally. I just think it probably the last thing that needs changed in pro football.

There's no shortage of things that could or even need to change and there's even some broad agreement on what they are.

My fear is that we don't make the smaller or lower-priority changes because of the 'big things' being seen as more important. That usually means neither gets done.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not averse to the notion of quick restarts and basically passing to yourself, it's worth looking at I guess. Anyway, if we go back to my original post I'm merely stating my opinion which is that having been used to coaching with the ball at foot, it felt a bit silly to then introduce this weird way of restarting the game by holding and throwing the ball, with all its own little rules.

And if I was compiling my top ten list of footballing phrases that make my ears bleed, 'he's a long-throw specialist' would make the cut, just behind 'he needs to get his head down and run' and other utterly depressing statements.

Anyway, I know better now, because some St Alban's player who tried it nearly thirty years ago didn't like it, that's me told then :agree: :greengrin

I don't know if you read the piece you linked to but I'm amazed it got past the sub-editor, it is truly awful. Most of it isn't about throw-ins for a start. A lot of it is the writer's opinion being presented as fact (he would fit in comfortably on some threads on here :greengrin). When he does talk about kick-ins/throw-ins he basically relies on the St Alban's manager from thirty years ago, who didn't like the idea either. The funny bit in the article is how keen the writer is to burnish the credentials of the manager - seemingly he is infallible because he played 100 times for Brentford and he does a bit of work for charity :faf:

Fact is vast majority of free kicks say 40 yard from touch even near the sides get played in. As Lineker says it will just mean every throw in becomes a free kicks. Kick ins from 20 yards out will be much deadlier than a corner, ridiculous

Wengers still reeling from loosing to delaps ability to get it in the box