How does HTC compare to these £100m premier league training acedemy's?

[Antifa Hibs]

Obviously not like for like as something that costs £100m is going to be far superior than something that cost £5m - 15 years ago.

Think it would be fair to say football has changed in the last 15 years. A lot more emphasis on strength, diet, conditioning and technology...? Watching these amazon and netflix football documentaries and you get a good insight into clubs facilities. Full on computer suites so players can watch team and individual performances with coaching staff, swimming pool/plunge pool/sauna/steam rooms, gyms that would put David Lloyd to shame, these deep freeze chambers (cryo chambers) that apparently helped Leicester on winning their league etc.

Does East Mains offer this type of thing or likely to in the future, or are these reserved for the elites?

PS this aint a dig at STF, RP or RG, never been, no idea what its like.

[Jones28]

It’s nothing like these facilities at the moment but there’s plenty of space to expand. The gym is class.

[Dmas]

I know a young lad who used to play for Celtic, and he’s adamant HTC is better than what Celtic have at lennoxtown….only issue is how windy it is, how much of that is lip service to impress an older chap I don’t know but I think we have a decent facility it looks good on the videos released by the club, pitches look great outside the indoor pitches the same.

Thibk the club have done well to get what they have, yeah it’s not up to scratch If you compare to Leicester new thing but for the money and size of club we’ve done alright I think

[HH81]

I know an ex pro who played in England and ended up at Killie.

This was few years back and he said Hibs one of the best training facilities he had seen in football.

Think played a friendly there once or twice.

[Keith_M]

It's much better than anything Hearts own.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's much better than anything Hearts own.

Done a few weeks there with my work and that's true. Whilst ricarton is a great place they clearly are guests.

Hearts have a small corridor down stairs with a changing room, boot room, medical room and a really poor gym. Upstairs about 6 offices. This is in miles of offices and lecture room, uni physio rooms ect.

They have a slot each day on the big pitch, so does the uni teams. Cowdenbeath, Edin City and others train on it a few times a week.

There is a big gym they can use which is good which is mobbed with other athletes. They are constantly mingling with the students in almost every area.

They have a slot at the big old staff canteen for their food, no chill out areas or privacy we have.

They have a pitch they use outside also.

I seen an under say 15 group and coaches waiting about, as I swear a sport Frisbee session had booked the small indoor pitch when they thought they had it. They just had to wait.

[KeithTheHibby]

Done a few weeks there with my work and that's true. Whilst ricarton is a great place they clearly are guests.

Hearts have a small corridor down stairs with a changing room, boot room, medical room and a really poor gym. Upstairs about 6 offices. This is in miles of offices and lecture room, uni physio rooms ect.

They have a slot each day on the big pitch, so does the uni teams. Cowdenbeath, Edin City and others train on it a few times a week.

There is a big gym they can use which is good which is mobbed with other athletes. They are constantly mingling with the students in almost every area.

They have a slot at the big old staff canteen for their food, no chill out areas or privacy we have.

They have a pitch they use outside also.

I seen an under say 15 group and coaches waiting about, as I swear a sport Frisbee session had booked the small indoor pitch when they thought they had it. They just had to wait.


Doesn’t seem to affect them much on the park though all these interruptions.
It’s all very well having a top notch training centre but if it’s not utilised correctly and your structure is wrong you’d be as well back training on public parks.

[Stairway 2 7]

Doesn’t seem to affect them much on the park though all these interruptions.
It’s all very well having a top notch training centre but if it’s not utilised correctly and your structure is wrong you’d be as well back training on public parks.

Did you say the same the reason they got relegated when they clearly had the 3rd biggest budget or are you just reactionary when they do well. It helps having good facilities but it's one piece. The 2 million a year their fans give them is obviously a much bigger factor

[Bridge hibs]

Doesn’t seem to affect them much on the park though all these interruptions.
It’s all very well having a top notch training centre but if it’s not utilised correctly and your structure is wrong you’d be as well back training on public parks.There was something in the press a few days ago saying hearts are wanting to build a £20m state of the art training ground and are looking for land owners to offer them the land.

They say they need a dedicated training centre of their own as they have to constantly book slots for sessions. They also have to kick fat pot noodle munching student Quidich players off the pitches

Chief executive Andrew McKinlay spoke to the Evening News today about potential long-term plans to move away from the Heriot-Watt University campus at Riccarton, where Hearts teams of all ages have trained since 2004.

The Oriam Scotland National Performance Complex opened on the same site in 2016 and the Tynecastle side must book some facilities in advance, including the indoor astroturf pitch, in order to use them.

[green day]

There was something in the press a few days ago saying hearts are wanting to build a £20m state of the art training ground and are looking for land owners to offer them the land.

They say they need a dedicated training centre of their own as they have to constantly book slots for sessions. They also have to kick fat pot noodle munching student Quidich players off the pitches

Chief executive Andrew McKinlay spoke to the Evening News today about potential long-term plans to move away from the Heriot-Watt University campus at Riccarton, where Hearts teams of all ages have trained since 2004.

The Oriam Scotland National Performance Complex opened on the same site in 2016 and the Tynecastle side must book some facilities in advance, including the indoor astroturf pitch, in order to use them.

I understand that Hearts are looking to buy land next to the Riccarton facilities, allowing them to continue to use the Oriam etc but have a base that they own.

No idea how that will play out, but they still have a few years on the lease there.

[Pretty Boy]

I remember Alan Stubbs was asked at a .net visit to HTC how it compared to the facilities at Everton. He said there was obviously an element of comparing oranges and apples but there was nothing he really needed at Hibs that wasn't there. He did say a swimming pool would be nice but wasn't really an essential.

HTC has been improved a lot in recent years and a lot of that is thanks to the fans. The gym was originally set up to a spec designed for John Collins, who ironically enough never used it. It remained unchanged for the best part of a decade. It was funding from an individual fan and this site that paid for a chunk of the refurb. Same with the 'black room' video analysis, a lot of that was paid for by the site. Calvin Charlton explained how beneficial that is and said whilst it's smaller scale the tech compares to what EPL clubs are using.

It's a very good facility. I think a full size indoor pitch would be one of the final pieces in the jigsaw to taking up to another level.

[Billy Whizz]

A few years ago there was talk of “sponsoring” a tree in the right hand side of the 1st pitch! Was to protect the games from the wind!

What happened to the plans for the full size indoor pitch, gone quiet on this, or maybe not being considered now

[JimBHibees]

I remember Alan Stubbs was asked at a .net visit to HTC how it compared to the facilities at Everton. He said there was obviously an element of comparing oranges and apples but there was nothing he really needed at Hibs that wasn't there. He did say a swimming pool would be nice but wasn't really an essential.

HTC has been improved a lot in recent years and a lot of that is thanks to the fans. The gym was originally set up to a spec designed for John Collins, who ironically enough never used it. It remained unchanged for the best part of a decade. It was funding from an individual fan and this site that paid for a chunk of the refurb. Same with the 'black room' video analysis, a lot of that was paid for by the site. Calvin Charlton explained how beneficial that is and said whilst it's smaller scale the tech compares to what EPL clubs are using.

It's a very good facility. I think a full size indoor pitch would be one of the final pieces in the jigsaw to taking up to another level.

Totally agree that would be a huge and vital addition being able to use a full sized indoor pitch especially when weather is poor and outdoor pitches are unplayable.

[JimBHibees]

A few years ago there was talk of “sponsoring” a tree in the right hand side of the 1st pitch! Was to protect the games from the wind!

What happened to the plans for the full size indoor pitch, gone quiet on this, or maybe not being considered now

Assume covid has delayed it however to me a full indoor pitch would be a huge asset and brilliant addition hopefully still planned to do it.

[Dmas]

Assume covid has delayed it however to me a full indoor pitch would be a huge asset and brilliant addition hopefully still planned to do it.

Was it priced around £1m when Leann Dempster introduced the idea or am I making it up? think it was said at the time if we got the indoor facility we would reach gold standard?

[J-C]

Got to wonder why Hearts never invested into the building of the Oriam Complex making them part owners and hence not have the problems they have now.

[JohnM1875]

Got to wonder why Hearts never invested into the building of the Oriam Complex making them part owners and hence not have the problems they have now.

Are they not looking to build a new training complex? Sure I read about it not long ago somewhere. Going to cost them a fair amount though.

[CapitalGreen]

Got to wonder why Hearts never invested into the building of the Oriam Complex making them part owners and hence not have the problems they have now.

The planning and funding for Oriam was occurring 2012-2014 when they were going through admin etc. They couldn’t even pay their rent for Riccarton let alone think about paying millions for a place they would actually (part) own.

[Smartie]

I remember Alan Stubbs was asked at a .net visit to HTC how it compared to the facilities at Everton. He said there was obviously an element of comparing oranges and apples but there was nothing he really needed at Hibs that wasn't there. He did say a swimming pool would be nice but wasn't really an essential.

HTC has been improved a lot in recent years and a lot of that is thanks to the fans. The gym was originally set up to a spec designed for John Collins, who ironically enough never used it. It remained unchanged for the best part of a decade. It was funding from an individual fan and this site that paid for a chunk of the refurb. Same with the 'black room' video analysis, a lot of that was paid for by the site. Calvin Charlton explained how beneficial that is and said whilst it's smaller scale the tech compares to what EPL clubs are using.

It's a very good facility. I think a full size indoor pitch would be one of the final pieces in the jigsaw to taking up to another level.

This isn’t necessarily that relevant to your post but I’ve heard that swimming pools in the current energy price environment are an absolute money pit right now and many of the places currently having to heat the buildings and water required to have a swimming pool are currently looking at their numbers very closely - particularly with how much costs are currently expected to increase further this winter.

Obviously this won’t be an issue for the biggest clubs with the biggest income, but it might end up being yet another compounding factor in problems facing a club with a big wage bill that finds itself outside a top league with a huge tv deal.

Or to put it another way - it mightn’t be a bad time to rent like Hearts, or have moderate facilities like our own that shouldn’t see an insane leap in running costs?

[Renfrew_Hibby]

The training grounds that Spurs and Chelsea have out in the hinterlands of the home counties are off the scale and the Man City complex is like a whole new district in the city.
We don't need anything on that scale but I would list the following...

A full scale deso ( or what ever they're called) to match the new pitch when it's installed at Easter Road next summer.
Some sort of pool for hydrotherapy - this is a must for elite footballers nowadays.
An enlarged indoor facility.

[The dalmeny]

Totally agree that would be a huge and vital addition being able to use a full sized indoor pitch especially when weather is poor and outdoor pitches are unplayable.

No surprise the a gym speced by Collins is still up to scratch today.

Agree on the indoor pitch. Just want to avoid the 3/4 sized effort at Lennoxtown or the one with a low roof in dundee

[The dalmeny]

The training grounds that Spurs and Chelsea have out in the hinterlands of the home counties are off the scale and the Man City complex is like a whole new district in the city.
We don't need anything on that scale but I would list the following...

A full scale deso ( or what ever they're called) to match the new pitch when it's installed at Easter Road next summer.
Some sort of pool for hydrotherapy - this is a must for elite footballers nowadays.
An enlarged indoor facility.

Been to the City one. Unbelievable really.

[MWHIBBIES]

Doesn’t seem to affect them much on the park though all these interruptions.
It’s all very well having a top notch training centre but if it’s not utilised correctly and your structure is wrong you’d be as well back training on public parks.

They've been relegated twice since they last won a trophy. They're ****ing *****.

[Stairway 2 7]

Wonder if we could stick up a wind turbine there to get our electricity, like some communities up north do

[Kato]

The planning and funding for Oriam was occurring 2012-2014 when they were going through admin etc. They couldn’t even pay their rent for Riccarton let alone think about paying millions for a place they would actually (part) own.Hasn't stopped pretending to own it.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[LeithMike]

They've been relegated twice since they last won a trophy. They're ****ing *****.They've just come 3rd and got to a final after being promoted - are you not recognising that as an achievement? IIRC you were adamant that this was a huge achievement for Hibs under JR.

FWIW, I think the league outside the top two was relatively poor again and while Hearts were the best of the rest they are no more than a functional and certainly not a great side at the moment. Hibs could reel them in quite quickly if we invest wisely in the playing squad. They do seem to have their recruitment side a bit more sorted than us though which is the worry.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

They've just come 3rd and got to a final after being promoted - are you not recognising that as an achievement? IIRC you were adamant that this was a huge achievement for Hibs under JR.

FWIW, I think the league outside the top two was relatively poor again and while Hearts were the best of the rest they are no more than a functional and certainly not a great side at the moment. Hibs could reel them in quite quickly if we invest wisely in the playing squad. They do seem to have their recruitment side a bit more sorted than us though which is the worry.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

There fans give them 2 million a year we do a couple of hundred thousand. They get millions a year from benefactor. If we were both ran the same they should finish above us comfortably each season

[MWHIBBIES]

They've just come 3rd and got to a final after being promoted - are you not recognising that as an achievement? IIRC you were adamant that this was a huge achievement for Hibs under JR.

FWIW, I think the league outside the top two was relatively poor again and while Hearts were the best of the rest they are no more than a functional and certainly not a great side at the moment. Hibs could reel them in quite quickly if we invest wisely in the playing squad. They do seem to have their recruitment side a bit more sorted than us though which is the worry.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Yes, a good season in a poor decade for them. Again, 2 relegations and no cups. Considerably worse last 10 years than us. So maybe a proper training centre would've benefitted them?

[KeithTheHibby]

Did you say the same the reason they got relegated when they clearly had the 3rd biggest budget or are you just reactionary when they do well. It helps having good facilities but it's one piece. The 2 million a year their fans give them is obviously a much bigger factor

I was referring more to us than them. We’ve had that facility for 15 years and imo was only properly getting utilised when Dempster was appointed.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Wonder if we could stick up a wind turbine there to get our electricity, like some communities up north do

We are putting solar panel on the roof of ER so wind turbines at HTC make sense. The sun shines on Leith and the wind bliws a hooley in East Lothian.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I was referring more to us than them. We’ve had that facility for 15 years and imo was only properly getting utilised when Dempster was appointed.

How? You obviously have inside info on the change of utlisation. What are the differences from the Petrie Era, the Dempster Era and the Gordon Era that validate that statememt?

Just interested not wanting an arguement🙂

[Brooster]

Nearly every thread on here ends up talking about hertz,and we call them obsessed.

Back to the original question, I haven’t been to any English training complexes but I can say that East Mains is very impressive from what I've seen.

[hibby rae]

I remember Alan Stubbs was asked at a .net visit to HTC how it compared to the facilities at Everton. He said there was obviously an element of comparing oranges and apples but there was nothing he really needed at Hibs that wasn't there. He did say a swimming pool would be nice but wasn't really an essential.

HTC has been improved a lot in recent years and a lot of that is thanks to the fans. The gym was originally set up to a spec designed for John Collins, who ironically enough never used it. It remained unchanged for the best part of a decade. It was funding from an individual fan and this site that paid for a chunk of the refurb. Same with the 'black room' video analysis, a lot of that was paid for by the site. Calvin Charlton explained how beneficial that is and said whilst it's smaller scale the tech compares to what EPL clubs are using.

It's a very good facility. I think a full size indoor pitch would be one of the final pieces in the jigsaw to taking up to another level.

I thought there was a pool there?

[Stubbsy90+2]

Is East Mains still as impressive as it was when it opened?

Sports science is taken way more seriously now than it was even 15 years ago. Were we ahead of the curve when we opened East Mains and it was stocked with everything all the other clubs have now, or has it aged a bit?

I’ve never been and I’ve never been to any other professional clubs either so have no idea.

[J-C]

The planning and funding for Oriam was occurring 2012-2014 when they were going through admin etc. They couldn’t even pay their rent for Riccarton let alone think about paying millions for a place they would actually (part) own.


I hadn't even thought about the timing of the Oriam and Hearts at the time, that would explain it, cheers.:aok:

[judas]

I think Hibs training facility is top class.

The problem is we have been - on average - Tom Kite since it was built.

So. Has it made any difference?

[Brooster]

I think Hibs training facility is top class.

The problem is we have been - on average - Tom Kite since it was built.

So. Has it made any difference?

Another one has popped his head up, that's 3 or 4 in the last couple of days.

[judas]

Another one has popped his head up, that's 3 or 4 in the last couple of days.

?

[ekhibee]

I got a tour of East Mains just after it opened and was very impressed with it. But I'm still waiting to see any great benefits from it in terms of quality young players coming through, unless a lot of the good ones went elsewhere. IMO by far most of the best players we've had since it opened are players we got from elsewhere. Celtic do buy a lot of foreign players but they've got a lot who do come through the academy and go on to play in the 1st team, it'd be interesting to see the comparison between them and us as to how many young players do actually break through.

[Libby Hibby]

I think Hibs training facility is top class.

The problem is we have been - on average - Tom Kite since it was built.

So. Has it made any difference?

It would be interesting to see how many trophy’s won, number of semi-finals and finals, average league positions and relegations we have had since HTC was built compared to the same period prior to it being built.

There must be an improvement in our general stats.

[hibby rae]

It would be interesting to see how many trophy’s won, number of semi-finals and finals, average league positions and relegations we have had since HTC was built compared to the same period prior to it being built.

There must be an improvement in our general stats.

When it comes to Hampden appearances, I don't think we even need to check. There's been a massive improvement.

[JimBHibees]

When it comes to Hampden appearances, I don't think we even need to check. There's been a massive improvement.

Yep our cup record is phenomenal in getting to the later stages

[H18 SFR]

I’ve always felt that 42 pro clubs in a nation endeavouring to build 42 training centres is bonkers.

When I was in Iceland several clubs, often from several different sports built and shared the facility together - totally reduced the cost down of building and running your own facility. As they all jointly owned the building and facility there was no individual group wrecking the place or taking the piss.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I’ve always felt that 42 pro clubs in a nation endeavouring to build 42 training centres is bonkers.

When I was in Iceland several clubs, often from several different sports built and shared the facility together - totally reduced the cost down of building and running your own facility. As they all jointly owned the building and facility there was no individual group wrecking the place or taking the piss.

Iceland has a population half that of Edinburgh. You are basically describing them having a Meadowbank type centre.

[H18 SFR]

Iceland has a population half that of Edinburgh. You are basically describing them having a Meadowbank type centre.

I can understand you saying that but please trust me when I say their facilities are not like Meadowbank centres.

Edit - I just said what you replied with to my wife and her instant response was Scotland isn’t ready for excellence.

[Stairway 2 7]

I can understand you saying that but please trust me when I say their facilities are not like Meadowbank centres.

Edit - I just said what you replied with to my wife and her instant response was Scotland isn’t ready for excellence.

But even if they are like the orium or Murray Park. Iceland population of 350,000 and Reykjavik 250,000 of that makes it obviously different. They aren't going to have 20 full scale training centres in that area. There club teams are also small.

They do do alot right in Iceland. Lots of not training centres but covered astro pitches for the community.

They also do something that I love and they credit with changing their fortunes. They split Reykjavik into a grid and youth teams can only pick players from that grid. Unlike Edinburgh where leith hutchy ect scoop the best players, sometimes players driving a decent distance. It is utterly pathetic these teams blasting away opposition every week, they only learn how to attack. By making them pick players from a grid you have a mix of abilities and close games, you learn attack and defence.

[H18 SFR]

But even if they are like the orium or Murray Park. Iceland population of 350,000 and Reykjavik 250,000 of that makes it obviously different. They aren't going to have 20 full scale training centres in that area. There club teams are also small.

They do do alot right in Iceland. Lots of not training centres but covered astro pitches for the community.

They also do something that I love and they credit with changing their fortunes. They split Reykjavik into a grid and youth teams can only pick players from that grid. Unlike Edinburgh where leith hutchy ect scoop the best players, sometimes players driving a decent distance. It is utterly pathetic these teams blasting away opposition every week, they only learn how to attack. By making them pick players from a grid you have a mix of abilities and close games, you learn attack and defence.

When I was there they had 40 odd youth clubs, every single one had access to the elite facilities used by the pro clubs.

It was so weird training indoors in a heated full size pitch. The halls next to us would have elite basketball and netball etc.

70% of youth coaches were UEFA b licence holders, most of the others level A. Absolutely outstanding setup.

[A Hi-Bee]

I can understand you saying that but please trust me when I say their facilities are not like Meadowbank centres.

Edit - I just said what you replied with to my wife and her instant response was Scotland isn’t ready for excellence.

Your wife has hit the nail right on the head. :top marks

[ahibby]

Was it priced around £1m when Leann Dempster introduced the idea or am I making it up? think it was said at the time if we got the indoor facility we would reach gold standard?

Sounds like something HSL could use our contrubutions towards. The silence from HSL indicates contributions are just sitting there with no decision yet on how they will be used.

[ahibby]

I got a tour of East Mains just after it opened and was very impressed with it. But I'm still waiting to see any great benefits from it in terms of quality young players coming through, unless a lot of the good ones went elsewhere. IMO by far most of the best players we've had since it opened are players we got from elsewhere. Celtic do buy a lot of foreign players but they've got a lot who do come through the academy and go on to play in the 1st team, it'd be interesting to see the comparison between them and us as to how many young players do actually break through.

Hanlon, Stevenson, Porteous, Doig, Campbell .......

[NAE NOOKIE]

It seems a no brainer that a full sized indoor pitch would be of enormous benefit at East Mains, something I've no doubt will eventually be there, but I would imagine a good facility like that would cost around 5 million quid.

What does interest me is how the parents, relatives and friends of kids in the Hibs youth programmes are treated. About 20 years ago my friends kid was in one of the Hibs under age teams and on a number of occasions I drove him up from Galashiels to training at Leith academy and Dreghorn barracks. Much as I loved the kid and Hibs it wasn't always my first choice to freeze my arse off on the touchline watching him train, with the only recourse being to either sit in my car or find a pub for an orange juice.

I have no idea what, if any, facilities exist at East Mains for parents etc, but it's a pretty well known fact that if a club wants to get the pick of local talent the way to do that is through their parents. In my version of a Hibs training centre there would be an area where parents could sit around and relax while the kids were out on the pitch, with comfy chairs and televisions, perhaps even free tea coffee and sandwiches, that sort of thing. Treat the parents as if they matter in the process and you have a better chance of getting the kids you want at the club to sign up and perhaps have a better chance of holding on to them if they do.

Given where the HTC is I presume the kids are picked up at a central point by a minibus or something and taken out there ( it is just a presumption ) but if facilities were available at East Mains for parents who want to go along I still feel it would benefit the club in the long term.

[60yearahibby]

It seems a no brainer that a full sized indoor pitch would be of enormous benefit at East Mains, something I've no doubt will eventually be there, but I would imagine a good facility like that would cost around 5 million quid.

What does interest me is how the parents, relatives and friends of kids in the Hibs youth programmes are treated. About 20 years ago my friends kid was in one of the Hibs under age teams and on a number of occasions I drove him up from Galashiels to training at Leith academy and Dreghorn barracks. Much as I loved the kid and Hibs it wasn't always my first choice to freeze my arse off on the touchline watching him train, with the only recourse being to either sit in my car or find a pub for an orange juice.

I have no idea what, if any, facilities exist at East Mains for parents etc, but it's a pretty well known fact that if a club wants to get the pick of local talent the way to do that is through their parents. In my version of a Hibs training centre there would be an area where parents could sit around and relax while the kids were out on the pitch, with comfy chairs and televisions, perhaps even free tea coffee and sandwiches, that sort of thing. Treat the parents as if they matter in the process and you have a better chance of getting the kids you want at the club to sign up and perhaps have a better chance of holding on to them if they do.

Given where the HTC is I presume the kids are picked up at a central point by a minibus or something and taken out there ( it is just a presumption ) but if facilities were available at East Mains for parents who want to go along I still feel it would benefit the club in the long term.

I think there was an issue with planning regarding the site still being considered agricultural and so existing buildings were adapted and any new builds being suitable for conversion to farming or easily demolished. I'm sure HFC could make a case now for a covered full sized pitch. I was told that when the 3G outdoor pitch was being built a concrete foundation was incorporated around the perimeter so that a lightweight fabric building could be easily erected at some future date without damaging the integrity of the 3G pitch. If true all we need is a rich owner or benefactor.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think there was an issue with planning regarding the site still being considered agricultural and so existing buildings were adapted and any new builds being suitable for conversion to farming or easily demolished. I'm sure HFC could make a case now for a covered full sized pitch. I was told that when the 3G outdoor pitch was being built a concrete foundation was incorporated around the perimeter so that a lightweight fabric building could be easily erected at some future date without damaging the integrity of the 3G pitch. If true all we need is a rich owner or benefactor.

If that's correct it would make it massively cheaper and dempsters 1 million would make more sense

[Is It On....]

Iceland has a population half that of Edinburgh. You are basically describing them having a Meadowbank type centre.

They have alot more than Meadowbank and they have 7 full size indoor football halls

[Brightside]

It seems a no brainer that a full sized indoor pitch would be of enormous benefit at East Mains, something I've no doubt will eventually be there, but I would imagine a good facility like that would cost around 5 million quid.

What does interest me is how the parents, relatives and friends of kids in the Hibs youth programmes are treated. About 20 years ago my friends kid was in one of the Hibs under age teams and on a number of occasions I drove him up from Galashiels to training at Leith academy and Dreghorn barracks. Much as I loved the kid and Hibs it wasn't always my first choice to freeze my arse off on the touchline watching him train, with the only recourse being to either sit in my car or find a pub for an orange juice.

I have no idea what, if any, facilities exist at East Mains for parents etc, but it's a pretty well known fact that if a club wants to get the pick of local talent the way to do that is through their parents. In my version of a Hibs training centre there would be an area where parents could sit around and relax while the kids were out on the pitch, with comfy chairs and televisions, perhaps even free tea coffee and sandwiches, that sort of thing. Treat the parents as if they matter in the process and you have a better chance of getting the kids you want at the club to sign up and perhaps have a better chance of holding on to them if they do.

Given where the HTC is I presume the kids are picked up at a central point by a minibus or something and taken out there ( it is just a presumption ) but if facilities were available at East Mains for parents who want to go along I still feel it would benefit the club in the long term.

There are pretty much no facilities at HTC for parents. Toilets in the barn, not sure if the coffee machine is working again. There are no pick ups for kids. You take them in your car and then either sit in the car or go a walk.

[Hibeesforever]

There are pretty much no facilities at HTC for parents. Toilets in the barn, not sure if the coffee machine is working again. There are no pick ups for kids. You take them in your car and then either sit in the car or go a walk.

The facilities for parents five years ago were an embarrassment in my view. Parents just left to stand around in the barn or in cars. Hope it has changed, definitely think impressing the parents is important.

[ekhibee]

Hanlon, Stevenson, Porteous, Doig, Campbell .......

Doig came through the youth system at Hearts, not Hibs. Hanlon played for Hutchison Vale before coming to Hibs, he was an attacking midfielder for them. Stevenson was in the youth team before East Mains opened, I think he joined Hibs in 2003, three years before East Mains opened.

[NAE NOOKIE]

There are pretty much no facilities at HTC for parents. Toilets in the barn, not sure if the coffee machine is working again. There are no pick ups for kids. You take them in your car and then either sit in the car or go a walk.

Wow mate .... after making my post I was genuinely waiting for a pile of replies laughing at my naivety and telling me that of course Hibs take care of the parents, or at the very least the kids have a central pick up in Edinburgh to save parents, relatives or friends a trip to East Lothian twice a week or whatever it is.

I don't know how this compares to other clubs in the central belt, but if the likes of Celtic, Rangers and Hearts are ahead of us in this department it surely cant be a good thing if we want to attract the best youngsters. If they are no better then us then this is an absolute open goal, how much would it cost to buy a telly some comfy seats, tea and coffee facilities and a few packets of biscuits so that parents of kids we want to turn into players that a few years down the line might earn the club millions feel disposed to bring there kids here in the face of offers from Hearts for example?

There must have been numerous times a promising kid has had the choice between us and Hearts, I would imagine that often it's the parents not the kid you need to persuade and something as simple as this could make the difference, something as simple as freeze your bum off standing around for a couple of hours or have a comfortable room with a telly to watch or that days papers to read as you wait for training to finish ..... Especially given where our training centre is situated I find it more than surprising that Hibs don't seem to have recognised the value there could be in this approach, I'm really surprised it's something Leeann Dempster didn't seem to have thought about.

[Stairway 2 7]

Wow mate .... after making my post I was genuinely waiting for a pile of replies laughing at my naivety and telling me that of course Hibs take care of the parents, or at the very least the kids have a central pick up in Edinburgh to save parents, relatives or friends a trip to East Lothian twice a week or whatever it is.

I don't know how this compares to other clubs in the central belt, but if the likes of Celtic, Rangers and Hearts are ahead of us in this department it surely cant be a good thing if we want to attract the best youngsters. If they are no better then us then this is an absolute open goal, how much would it cost to buy a telly some comfy seats, tea and coffee facilities and a few packets of biscuits so that parents of kids we want to turn into players that a few years down the line might earn the club millions feel disposed to bring there kids here in the face of offers from Hearts for example?

There must have been numerous times a promising kid has had the choice between us and Hearts, I would imagine that often it's the parents not the kid you need to persuade and something as simple as this could make the difference, something as simple as freeze your bum off standing around for a couple of hours or have a comfortable room with a telly to watch or that days papers to read as you wait for training to finish ..... Especially given where our training centre is situated I find it more than surprising that Hibs don't seem to have recognised the value there could be in this approach, I'm really surprised it's something Leeann Dempster didn't seem to have thought about.

Rangers don't, hearts have the cafe at the front of the orium but most parents drop off and come back, celtic have a viewing area although no lounge but that was some years ago. My mate drops his kids off at Rangers training and sits in a pub. Think teams get away with it because the parents are desperate for their boys to to keep getting signed.

Defo something that would cost little and improve things. Although will have been put on hold for two years because covid making parents not able to even watch games

[southern hibby]

I picked up in the taxi a young kid and his dad going to Oriam for training. Dad told me the kid was a Hibs fan but trained with hearts because of the location of East Mains. It was ( apparently ) to much hassle getting there with the lad and easier to get home after training had finished.
So possibly few parent will look at location and transport links and this could be a decider where their kids ends up playing.

GGTTH

[Stairway 2 7]

I picked up in the taxi a young kid and his dad going to Oriam for training. Dad told me the kid was a Hibs fan but trained with hearts because of the location of East Mains. It was ( apparently ) to much hassle getting there with the lad and easier to get home after training had finished.
So possibly few parent will look at location and transport links and this could be a decider where their kids ends up playing.

GGTTH

Definitely. My mates a big jambo unfortunately but his laddie is doing well for hibs, he's in Musselburgh so easier. He was at rangers but left for hibs. It was a rangers satellite, as sadly they have a rangers team from the east too

[Jones28]

Rangers don't, hearts have the cafe at the front of the orium but most parents drop off and come back, celtic have a viewing area although no lounge but that was some years ago. My mate drops his kids off at Rangers training and sits in a pub. Think teams get away with it because the parents are desperate for their boys to to keep getting signed.

Defo something that would cost little and improve things. Although will have been put on hold for two years because covid making parents not able to even watch games

The Oriam has a cafe - surely? It’s not Hearts own cafe that they run.

[Stairway 2 7]

The Oriam has a cafe - surely? It’s not Hearts own cafe that they run.

Sorry badly worded yeah. Meant parents can use the cafe. Like everything there it's the universities. Actually now I think the cafe upstairs closes at 5 or something so they can just use vending machines

[Jones28]

Sorry badly worded yeah. Meant parents can use the cafe. Like everything there it's the universities. Actually now I think the cafe upstairs closes at 5 or something so they can just use vending machines

Thanks for clarifying.

Must be boring as hell for parents having to hoof it up the East Mains and sit in the car for 2 hours - they could at least provide Wifi and a kettle, or even let them use the gym!

How often is the training?

[Brightside]

I picked up in the taxi a young kid and his dad going to Oriam for training. Dad told me the kid was a Hibs fan but trained with hearts because of the location of East Mains. It was ( apparently ) to much hassle getting there with the lad and easier to get home after training had finished.
So possibly few parent will look at location and transport links and this could be a decider where their kids ends up playing.

GGTTH

The oriam is only a good location if you live that side of town. Easier for me to get to HTC. Any decent training ground will always be on the outskirts of town tbf.

[The dalmeny]

There are pretty much no facilities at HTC for parents. Toilets in the barn, not sure if the coffee machine is working again. There are no pick ups for kids. You take them in your car and then either sit in the car or go a walk.

Are the parents not allowed to watch training?

[Brightside]

Are the parents not allowed to watch training?

Yeh. You can hang around the cage etc. I think people are more talking about what they do when it’s raining etc. I don’t actually have a huge issue with the lack of facilities for parents. None of the teams have decent facilities. Spartans is probably the best.

[Hibs4185]

A friend of mines laddie was wanted by Hearts, Rangers and Hibs. He chose Rangers because he said they were far more professional. All ages got nutrition advice and a meal after training.

He’s a jambo but hated hearts set up. Said they were far too strict. They liked Hibs but they felt Rangers setup was next level.

[Alfred E Newman]

The Oriam has a cafe - surely? It’s not Hearts own cafe that they run.

Does it sell chips?

[hibbyfraelibby]

Does it sell chips?

Aye...Quinola chips

[scott_hfc1875]

Maybe something Kieran power can take to the club if enough people have mentioned it

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yeh. You can hang around the cage etc. I think people are more talking about what they do when it’s raining etc. I don’t actually have a huge issue with the lack of facilities for parents. None of the teams have decent facilities. Spartans is probably the best.

But isn't this the point? If none of the clubs are on the ball with this then surely a wee bit of effort in the area of catering ( caring ) for parents or other folk willing to bring kids out to East Mains could pay off in the long run .... I have to say that over 20 years since my experience bringing a kid to Hibs training to find nothing has changed astonishes me, especially in view of the fact that our training now takes place in East Lothian.

This is a club where like so many others finding young talent for the first team with a view to hopefully selling them on for millions of pounds after a few years of first team football is an absolutely vital part of it's operation, the club never tires of stating that aim and how important it is. In that context lacking the vision to spend a relatively tiny amount that could make the difference between a kids parents choosing us over other clubs seems short sighted bordering on incompetence in my humble opinion.

[The dalmeny]

In that context lacking the vision to spend a relatively tiny amount that could make the difference between a kids parents choosing us over other clubs seems short sighted bordering on incompetence in my humble opinion.

are you implying that someone would choose one club over another because there was a “coffee shop” for the parents?

[Brooster]

are you implying that someone would choose one club over another because there was a “coffee shop” for the parents?

Incredible, can hardly believe what I'm reading here. I think I'll start taking flasks of tea and midget gems up for the parents to feast on, we will be winning the Champions League in no time. As for picking the lads up at a central point, how would that work? East Mains is 15 minutes and 10 miles from the East side of town.....not on the dark side of the moon!! Hibs have just won the Development League at a canter and will play in the Champions League next season, they must be doing something right.

[Brightside]

But isn't this the point? If none of the clubs are on the ball with this then surely a wee bit of effort in the area of catering ( caring ) for parents or other folk willing to bring kids out to East Mains could pay off in the long run .... I have to say that over 20 years since my experience bringing a kid to Hibs training to find nothing has changed astonishes me, especially in view of the fact that our training now takes place in East Lothian.

This is a club where like so many others finding young talent for the first team with a view to hopefully selling them on for millions of pounds after a few years of first team football is an absolutely vital part of it's operation, the club never tires of stating that aim and how important it is. In that context lacking the vision to spend a relatively tiny amount that could make the difference between a kids parents choosing us over other clubs seems short sighted bordering on incompetence in my humble opinion.

TBH i'd rather we didnt take any kids in till 15 year old. But thats totally an other debate. The HTC facilities for the first team and senior academy teams are great. There can be no complaints about that. All the other kids really just use the barn and outdoor pitches.

[NAE NOOKIE]

are you implying that someone would choose one club over another because there was a “coffee shop” for the parents?

Why is that such an outlandish prospect? There's folk on this very thread saying some folk choose Hearts over us because they live nearer to Riccarton than East Lothian. In other words choosing one club over another simply over the matter of convenience, not for football reasons and another saying a kids parents chose Rangers because of the way the kids were treated after games.

If you were a parent of a promising kid and especially one with zero interest in football, they do exist you know, being courted by both Hibs and Hearts what would be more attractive to you, the club where you freeze on a touchline in the middle of winter or sit in your car for one or two hours, or the club who told you they had a cozy lounge for parents to sit out of the cold and rain with a few basic facilities like free tea and coffee?

Folk have many reasons for choosing the club they do when several are knocking on their door, this could be a simple thing that could give us the slight edge ..... I seem to recall a mantra coming out of Easter Road in the early days of Dempster's tenure about tiny percentages when added together making a big difference. I don't think that's a bad attitude to have and stuff like this is probably exactly what she was talking about, even if she never got round to trying it.

The other thing is of course that we actually do have parents driving their kids to East Mains every week, so even if what I'm proposing had negligible effect on actually attracting new kids to the club would it not be a good idea to treat the folk who are currently bringing their kids out there a lot better than we seem to be doing at the moment?

[McD]

I thought Hibs ran minibuses to get young lads to HTC and back

Has that changed or am I just wrong entirely hahaha

[Onceinawhile]

I thought Hibs ran minibuses to get young lads to HTC and back

Has that changed or am I just wrong entirely hahaha

There is (or certainly was) a minibus taxi that ran from Broughton JD Performance school. But IIRC, it was organised by and paid for by the parents.

[Kato]

A reminder that East Mains is where it is because Edinburgh Council at the time made it clear they wouldn't do business with Hibs. They interpreted illegally with the Lochend Butterfly, which would have seen our training ground right in our backyard. They refused point blank to allow Tom Farmer to help develop Hunter's Hallanf the Jack Kane centre a traditional place for Hibs to train, into a hub for football training. When asked by Hibs where and what would be suitable within they city we were given short shrift. Hence the deal, planning etc, was with East Lothian Council.

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[RIP]

There is a reason why in fifteen years our academy has failed to produce more than a handful of senior players.

The location.

In the John Park era the academy was based in Lanarkshire and attracted players from Central Scotland. The decision to relocate the academy sixty miles East meant that we were limiting our player catchment to the Lothians.

[Stairway 2 7]

There is a reason why in fifteen years our academy has failed to produce more than a handful of senior players.

The location.

In the John Park era the academy was based in Lanarkshire and attracted players from Central Scotland. The decision to relocate the academy sixty miles East meant that we were limiting our player catchment to the Lothians.

Things have changed. The best young players from Edinburgh go downsouth by 16 now

[cameronw-hfc]

Why is that such an outlandish prospect? There's folk on this very thread saying some folk choose Hearts over us because they live nearer to Riccarton than East Lothian. In other words choosing one club over another simply over the matter of convenience, not for football reasons and another saying a kids parents chose Rangers because of the way the kids were treated after games.

If you were a parent of a promising kid and especially one with zero interest in football, they do exist you know, being courted by both Hibs and Hearts what would be more attractive to you, the club where you freeze on a touchline in the middle of winter or sit in your car for one or two hours, or the club who told you they had a cozy lounge for parents to sit out of the cold and rain with a few basic facilities like free tea and coffee?

Folk have many reasons for choosing the club they do when several are knocking on their door, this could be a simple thing that could give us the slight edge ..... I seem to recall a mantra coming out of Easter Road in the early days of Dempster's tenure about tiny percentages when added together making a big difference. I don't think that's a bad attitude to have and stuff like this is probably exactly what she was talking about, even if she never got round to trying it.

The other thing is of course that we actually do have parents driving their kids to East Mains every week, so even if what I'm proposing had negligible effect on actually attracting new kids to the club would it not be a good idea to treat the folk who are currently bringing their kids out there a lot better than we seem to be doing at the moment?

It's not outlandish. I played with a lad who got offered the chance to go to Liverpool for a few weeks and his dad turned it down because he didn't get to go down as a coach.

Not every kid has rational thinking parents. With the things I've seen, it would not surprise me if some kids get stuck in certain academies because it's more convenient for the parents rather than better for the kid.

[AliboyFC]

Our training ground is definitely better than newcastle training centre thats for sure. Newcastles is getting it done up a bit now though.

[The dalmeny]

It's not outlandish. I played with a lad who got offered the chance to go to Liverpool for a few weeks and his dad turned it down because he didn't get to go down as a coach.

Not every kid has rational thinking parents. With the things I've seen, it would not surprise me if some kids get stuck in certain academies because it's more convenient for the parents rather than better for the kid.


You've used the magic words 'rational thinking'

[Greenworld]

When a big fee is achieved for a player leaving 1 million of that will be spent on HTC....

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[Jones28]

When a big fee is achieved for a player leaving 1 million of that will be spent on HTC....

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...you sure about that?

[ekhibee]

A reminder that East Mains is where it is because Edinburgh Council at the time made it clear they wouldn't do business with Hibs. They interpreted illegally with the Lochend Butterfly, which would have seen our training ground right in our backyard. They refused point blank to allow Tom Farmer to help develop Hunter's Hallanf the Jack Kane centre a traditional place for Hibs to train, into a hub for football training. When asked by Hibs where and what would be suitable within they city we were given short shrift. Hence the deal, planning etc, was with East Lothian Council.

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Yep, the council's been Yam-infested for decades. I remember all the carry on about the Butterfly situation, and the council refusing to give Hibs planning permission.

[JimBHibees]

A reminder that East Mains is where it is because Edinburgh Council at the time made it clear they wouldn't do business with Hibs. They interpreted illegally with the Lochend Butterfly, which would have seen our training ground right in our backyard. They refused point blank to allow Tom Farmer to help develop Hunter's Hallanf the Jack Kane centre a traditional place for Hibs to train, into a hub for football training. When asked by Hibs where and what would be suitable within they city we were given short shrift. Hence the deal, planning etc, was with East Lothian Council.

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Absolutely disgusting all that especially when remembering the favourable treatment the yams have had.

[McD]

Absolutely disgusting all that especially when remembering the favourable treatment the yams have had.


is it the council who are responsible for the classification and reclassification of what the land at Tyne can be used for?

and are the council still paying them a decent wedge for ‘storage’ facilities?

[JimBHibees]

is it the council who are responsible for the classification and reclassification of what the land at Tyne can be used for?

and are the council still paying them a decent wedge for ‘storage’ facilities?

No idea assuming so. Can remember the council doing a report for them and tax payers paying for it? Also allowed them for years not to pay council tax etc?