Pat Stanton's Hibernian Dream Team

[Edina Street]

Has anyone else read Pat Stanton's book? Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed reading about what a great team the Turnbull's Tornadoes actually were, I was very disappointed with Pat's selection, and can understand why he ended up resigning from his Hibernian managerial post in 1984.

I won't reveal what his selection was, due to not wanting to infringe upon his copyright, and negatively effect his booksales. But after reading his book, I feel compelled to do my own Hibernian Dream Team, and also ask everyone on this forum what "your" Hibernian Dream Team would be?

Mine is as follows: 3-5-2

(1) Andy Goram (age 27) - Goalkeeper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Goram

(2) Jock Govan (age 24) - Right sided centre-back
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Govan

(3) Davie Shaw (age 29) - Left sided centre-back
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davie_Shaw

(4) Pat Stanton (age 28) - Centre-back/Defensive midfielder (Interchangable with Franck Sauzee)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Stanton

(5) Franck Sauzee (age 34) - Defensive midfielder/Centre back (Interchangable with Pat Stanton)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck_Sauz%C3%A9e

(6) Eddie Turnbull (age 25)- Box to box midfielder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Turnbull

(7) Gordon Smith (age 26) - Right winger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Smith_(footballer,_born_1924)

(8) Bobby Johnstone (age 25) - Attacking midfielder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Johnstone

(9) Lawrie Reilly (age 23) - Striker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrie_Reilly

(10) Joe Baker (age 21) - Striker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Baker

(11) Willie Ormond (age 27) - Left winger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Ormond

Subs

(12) Jim Leighton (age 35)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leighton

(13) John Blackley (age 25) - Can cover for any of the centre-backs.

(14) John Collins (age 22) - Can cover for anyone in the midfield apart from Gordon Smith, and could probably cover at left-back if switched to 4-4-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Collins_(footballer,_born_1968)

(15) John Cuthbertson (age N/A) - Can cover for Lawrie Reilly or Joe Baker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cuthbertson_(footballer,_fl._1939%E2%80%93195 6)

(16) John Brownlie (age 22) - Can cover for Gordon Smith, or fill in at right-back by switching to 4-4-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brownlie

(17) Russell Latapy (age 30) - Can cover for Bobby Johnstone, or either of the two strikers if switching to 4-5-1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Latapy

(18) Leigh Griffiths (age 22) - Can cover for Lawrie Reilly or Joe Baker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Griffiths

So, what changes would you make? Leighton instead of Goram? Jimmy O'Rourke instead of Leigh Griffiths maybe? What about Peter Cormack? He must have been a good player given his success at Liverpool? How would he fit in? Arthur Duncan instead of Ormond perhaps?

What would "your" Hibernian Dream Team be?

[BILLYHIBS]

Good post

I think you have pretty much nailed it but there is always room for improvement

The Little Magician was an excellent player for us gave us a whole new dimension in midfield and was 33rd best player in the world for a reason and could change a game in the blink of an eye

I never saw the Famous Five but you are correct by all accounts Bobby Johnstone was an early day Latapy with his vision and passing ability and probably even better going on reports from Citee and Oldham fans in his excellent biography

My personal favourite is Gordon Smith with the most games and goals but also feel I would have a place for The Flyer Arthur Duncan with the most League and Cup appearances and was totally outstanding for us and a tremendous servant to our great club who played with great pace and enthusiasm

I agree with The Goalie who was by far the best goalkeeper I have seen play for HIBS

Early Hibees Darling Willie Groves Bobby Atherton and Andy McGeachan must also rate a mention

I also remember feeling non plussed with Pat Stanton’s Dream Team and felt at the time it was a tactical diplomatic selection from a total gentleman club legend and another fantastic Hibernian player


Goram Brownlie Murphy Stanton Sauzee Blackley Smith Johnstone Reilly Cropley and Duncan

Subs Leighton Latapy Griffiths Cormack Ormond McGinlay and McNamee

Edit:

I cannot believe I left out my Dad’s favourite Joe Baker who was electric in his first spell at the club and Mr Hibs Eddie Turnbull

Too many great players to choose from

Oh and Eric Stevenson

[StarryPloughHSC]

Leighton, gray, stanton, sauzee, murphy, smith, broony, thomson, duncan, baker, reilly (4-4-2). Subs - Logan, L stevenson, orourke, turnbull, sproule, riordan, jones. Haven't seen pats line up so illbe purchasing the book hes one of the all time greats. Players i had to leave out but deserve a shout out are as follows - ormond, johnstone, cormack, e stevenson, willie hamilton, cropley, brownlie, ally mcleod, archibald, weir, wright, budgie, latapy, john oneill, boozy, john mcginn, henderson, stokes, cummings.

[Brightside]

Not a fan of people putting themselves in their dream team. 😂.

[WeeRussell]

You’re able to go back a fair bit further than me… but We MUST be able to do better on the bench than Gary Caldwell?

I’d also definitely have Riordan ahead of Griffiths, and would have to find a place for Latapy.

[superfurryhibby]

Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager :confused:

[WeeRussell]

Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager :confused:

… and then put Gary Caldwell in their improved offering 😁

[DIXIHIBS]

Its very difficult to choose a greatest ever 11. You cant really compare say bobby johnstone with latapy as these players are from completely different eras. The famous five should be in everyones greatest 11 as they won titles for hibs but most people have never even seen them play. Would be interesting to hear people best teams from 40s/50s....60s/70s....80s/90s....2000 to present day.

[BSEJVT]

Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager :confused:

100%

Like the OP’s selection, it was his idea of his best team

We all have our biases of formation and favourite players whom others may not rate or some will have seen players others have not

With respect to the OP I will take SAF’s view of Pat’s managerial credentials before his.

Hibs were an absolute basket case of a club during Pat’s reign as manager and he had to play the cards he was dealt

[Edina Street]

Good post

I think you have pretty much nailed it but there is always room for improvement

The Little Magician was an excellent player for us gave us a whole new dimension in midfield and was 33rd best player in the world for a reason and could change a game in the blink of an eye

I never saw the Famous Five but you are correct by all accounts Bobby Johnstone was an early day Latapy with his vision and passing ability and probably even better going on reports from Citee and Oldham fans in his excellent biography

I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.


My personal favourite is Gordon Smith with the most games and goals but also feel I would have a place for The Flyer Arthur Duncan with the most League and Cup appearances and was totally outstanding for us and a tremendous servant to our great club who played with great pace and enthusiasm

Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.


I agree with The Goalie who was by far the best goalkeeper I have seen play for HIBS

It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.


Early Hibees Darling Willie Groves Bobby Atherton and Andy McGeachan must also rate a mention

Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.


I also remember feeling non plussed with Pat Stanton’s Dream Team and felt at the time it was a tactical diplomatic selection from a total gentleman club legend and another fantastic Hibernian player

No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.


Goram Brownlie Murphy Stanton Sauzee Blackley Smith Johnstone Reilly Cropley and Duncan

Subs Leighton Latapy Griffiths Cormack Ormond McGinlay and McNamee

I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.


I cannot believe I left out my Dad’s favourite Joe Baker who was electric in his first spell at the club and Mr Hibs Eddie Turnbull

Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

[BILLYHIBS]

I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormand was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

Been a wee while since I read King Paddy’s book so I can’t really comment on his reasoning behind particular selections

Having a sneak peak at his final selection the two that stand out for me are Alan Rough great goalkeeper and Hall of Fame inductee but Dream Team ? George Best fair to say probably did his best work away from Easter Road

He also includes John Parke who I am told was a great full back and NI international

I remember Pat Stanton’s time as Manager as being a transitional period with no money and having to rely on youngsters but great excitement when Roughie made his debut versus Celtic and probably kept us in the League for a good few years but King Paddy cut a frustrated figure having to Manage with one hand tied behind his back

Cubby I am told by family members that saw him that he had the knack of scoring with every part of his anatomy but as long as the ball goes in that is all that counts

Scored the opener in the 1947 Scottish Cup Final in the first minute versus Aberdeen and we still lost

[Edina Street]

Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager :confused:

Are you sure?

Ok, here is Pat Stanton's dreamteam, as follows:

(1) Alan Rough
(2) John Brownlie
(3) John Parke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Parke_(footballer)
(4) Franck Sauzee
(5) Pat Stanton
(6) Alex Cropley
(7) Gordon Smith
(8) Willie Hamilton
(9) Joe Baker
(10) Lawrie Reilly
(11) George Best

Subs

(12) John Blackley
(13) Bobby Johnstone
(14) Alex Edwards
(15) John Collins
(16) Eric Stevenson
(17) Neil Martin
(18) Jimmy O'Rourke

[ancient hibee]

As someone said you can't really compare players from different eras. What you can do is compare their performances with contemporaries.Here's my take on the best players I've seen in their positions. Not saying they would make a team.

Andy Goram

Jock Govan, John McNamee, John Parke

Gordon Smith,Bobby Johnstone, Eddie Turnbull, Willie Hamilton, Willie Ormond

Lawrie Reilly, Joe Baker

Reserve team

Lawrie Leslie

John Brownlie, George Stewart, David Murphy

Alex Edwards, Pat Stanton, Franck Sauzee, Peter Cormack, Arthur Duncan

Alan Gordon, Joe McBride

[Edina Street]

You’re able to go back a fair bit further than me… but We MUST be able to do better on the bench than Gary Caldwell?

I’d also definitely have Riordan ahead of Griffiths, and would have to find a place for Latapy.

I just felt it was hard to ignore the fifty five caps that Gary went on to win for Scotland. Though admittedly he won those caps in one of Scotland's poorest sides, and I am sure if defenders such as Hugh Howie that had to compete with the Rangers "Iron Curtain", played today, they would probably also win dozens of Scotland caps.

[lapsedhibee]

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.


I just felt it was hard to ignore the fifty five caps Gary went on to win for Scotland.

Would have been very hard for any of these players to have won 50+ caps in any era because none of them played for the old firm.
Caldwell won 50+ caps because he played for the old firm.

[Edina Street]

100%

Hibs were an absolute basket case of a club during Pat’s reign as manager and he had to play the cards he was dealt

Wasn't one of the reasons Hibernian were in such a bad state because Tom Hart was playing football manager and doing silly things like wasting money on thirty three year old alcoholics, and then choosing them over Hibernian legends such as Eddie Turnbull?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEwZ0vpqYik <<<<<< 4 mins 55 secs

Elsewhere in the interview, Eddie also blames Hart for Hibernian not signing Gordon Strachan and John Robertson.

[StarryPloughHSC]

pat picking himself in his own dreamteam is oustanding patter

[JimBHibees]

pat picking himself in his own dreamteam is oustanding patter

Absolutely is :greengrin

[MKHIBEE]

I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.
Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

[BILLYHIBS]

I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

Try www.fitbastats.com for all things Hibs

Always my first point of reference

[BSEJVT]

Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

Met him and his wife Nancy in Banchory on holiday when I was about 13

They were staying in Harrogate at the time

They subsequently became friendly with my folks but Cubby died before they moved back up to Mountcastle

I would place him as being born around start of 1920’s? as I would have placed him mid -late 50’s at that time but could be miles off it

[StarryPloughHSC]

Absolutely is :greengrin

the guy is an absolute legend on and off the pitch jim he is the greatest hibernian there ever has been and will be for me no one else comes close mate

[Mick O'Rourke]

Met him and his wife Nancy in Banchory on holiday when I was about 13

They were staying in Harrogate at the time

They subsequently became friendly with my folks but Cubby died before they moved back up to Mountcastle

I would place him as being born around start of 1920’s? as I would have placed him mid -late 50’s at that time but could be miles off it

Along with Bobby Combe,who i was told from older relatives and Hibs supporters ,was a similar player to Jimmy O'Rourke,Johnny Cuthbertson was talked with great affection and admiration.

Found a Scotsman archive report on a Derby game at the outset of WW2.. 1940
Cubby plays a big role in a game that must have been a sight to see ...If you could :greengrin
Surreal and fascinating game, going by match report.
Read on


https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/classic-match-hibs-v-hearts-new-years-day-1940-1549078

[MKHIBEE]

I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.
Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

[Edina Street]

Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

This must be an error. John Cuthbertson signed for Hibernian in 1939, and left Hibernian in 1949. So he must have been born earlier than 1927.

He scored 41 official post-war goals in 54 games, and 83 wartime goals in 103 games, totalling 124 goals in 157 games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hibernian_F.C._records_and_statistics#Top_ goalscorers

[Diclonius]

Based purely on players I've actually SEEN play for us at their peak, would probably go with:


Marciano

Whittaker Ambrose Jones Murphy

Allan McGeouch McGinn

Boyle Griffiths Fletcher


Subs: Williams, Gray, Stevenson, Brown, Fyvie, Stokes, Cummings

[Mick O'Rourke]

This must be an error. John Cuthbertson signed for Hibernian in 1939, and left Hibernian in 1949. So he must have been born earlier than 1927.

He scored 41 official post-war goals in 54 games, and 83 wartime goals in 103 games, totalling 124 goals in 157 games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hibernian_F.C._records_and_statistics#Top_ goalscorers


Indeed
My post#23
i include match report from 1940 v Hearts.
John played and scored a hat trick,so i guess he was more than 13 yrs old at the time!!

[cameronw-hfc]

Only in my 20s so not seen some of the names here, but id go with

Rocky

Gray
Ambrose
Jones
Murphy

Mcgeough
Mcginn
Allan

Boyle
Fletch
Derek


Subs- Bogdan, GOC, Whitts, Brown, Stevenson, Zemmama and Sparky

Special mention to Sauzee and Latapy but I don't actually remember them despite seeing them, so don't feel I can put either in despite definitely being better than some in there.

[loanheadhibby]

Has anyone else read Pat Stanton's book? Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed reading about what a great team the Turnbull's Tornadoes actually were, I was very disappointed with Pat's selection, and can understand why he ended up resigning from his Hibernian managerial post in 1984.

I won't reveal what his selection was, due to not wanting to infringe upon his copyright, and negatively effect his booksales. But after reading his book, I feel compelled to do my own Hibernian Dream Team, and also ask everyone on this forum what "your" Hibernian Dream Team would be?

Mine is as follows:

(1) Andy Goram (age 27)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Goram

(2) John Brownlie (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brownlie

(3) Erich Schaedler (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Schaedler

(4) Pat Stanton (age 28)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Stanton

(5) John Blackley (age 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blackley

(6) Franck Sauzee (age 34)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck_Sauz%C3%A9e

(7) Gordon Smith (age 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Smith_(footballer,_born_1924)

(8) Bobby Johnstone (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Johnstone

(9) Lawrie Reilly (age 23)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrie_Reilly

(10) Joe Baker (age 21)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Baker

(11) Willie Ormond (age 27)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Ormond

Subs

(12) Jim Leighton (age 35)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leighton

(13) Jock Govan (age 24)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Govan

(14) Eddie Turnbull (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Turnbull

(15) John Cuthbertson (age N/A)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cuthbertson_(footballer,_fl._1939%E2%80%93195 6)

(16) Gary Caldwell (age 24)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Caldwell

(17) John Collins (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Collins_(footballer,_born_1968)

(18) Leigh Griffiths (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Griffiths

Omission

Yes, I am aware that whilst playing for Hibernian, Russell Latapy was voted 33rd best player in the world alongside Roy Keane and Dennis Bergkamp, but I believe Bobby Johnstone was just about the same as Russell Latapy in every other department except from goalscoring. Bobby Johnstone was by far a more prolific goalscoring attacking midfielder than Russell Latapy. Russell Latapy also loses out to John Collins and Eddie Turnbull on the bench due to Eddie and John being far more versatile and capable of filling in a greater number of positions.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Football%3A+Latapy%27s+SPL%27s+sole+poll+star.-a067912159

So, what changes would you make? Leighton instead of Goram? Govan instead of Brownlie? Should Russell have been included anywhere? at who's expense? Jimmy O'Rourke instead of Leigh Griffiths maybe? What about Peter Cormack? He must have been a good player given his success at Liverpool? How would he fit in? Arthur Duncan instead of Ormond perhaps?

What would "your" Hibernian Dream Team be?
Hard to disagree with your team.
Think I would be pretty much the same.
Loved Shades but John Parke and David Murphy possibly better.

[Allant1981]

Only in my 20s so not seen some of the names here, but id go with

Rocky

Gray
Ambrose
Jones
Murphy

Mcgeough
Mcginn
Allan

Boyle
Fletch
Derek


Subs- Bogdan, GOC, Whitts, Brown, Stevenson, Zemmama and Sparky

Special mention to Sauzee and Latapy but I don't actually remember them despite seeing them, so don't feel I can put either in despite definitely being better than some in there.

Mcgeouch before scott brown, personally theres not a chance that would happen but each to their own

[StarryPloughHSC]

Mcgeouch before scott brown, personally theres not a chance that would happen but each to their own
a still believe we got the very best of broony like he was unplayable with us mcginn and mcgeouch couldn't lace his boots when he was in his prime

[DIXIHIBS]

a still believe we got the very best of broony like he was unplayable with us mcginn and mcgeouch couldn't lace his boots when he was in his prime
Opinions and all that but to say mcginn couldnt lace browns boots...not for me. Both very good players for hibs.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Yves Makalamby
Thierry Gatthuessi
Shelton Martis
Rocky Bushiri
Abderaouff Zarabi
Matt Done
Brian Kerr
Kevin McBride
Alan O’Brian
Amadou Konte
Shefki Kuqi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StarryPloughHSC]

Opinions and all that but to say mcginn couldnt lace browns boots...not for me. Both very good players for hibs. aye thats true mate but if you put a prime broony from 05/07 up against todays mcginn, mcginns chasing shadows

[StarryPloughHSC]

Yves Makalamby
Thierry Gatthuessi
Shelton Martis
Rocky Bushiri
Abderaouff Zarabi
Matt Done
Brian Kerr
Kevin McBride
Alan O’Brian
Amadou Konte
Shefki Kuqi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hahaha canny believe you left out a certain goalkeeper from poland mate

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Only in my 20s so not seen some of the names here, but id go with

Rocky

Gray
Ambrose
Jones
Murphy

Mcgeough
Mcginn
Allan

Boyle
Fletch
Derek


Subs- Bogdan, GOC, Whitts, Brown, Stevenson, Zemmama and Sparky

Special mention to Sauzee and Latapy but I don't actually remember them despite seeing them, so don't feel I can put either in despite definitely being better than some in there.

Also in my 20s so I’ll give a shot anaw… last post was a joke, obviously.

Rocky
Whittaker
Jones
McPake
Murphy
Brown
Thomson
McGinn
Boyle
Griffiths
Deek

Subs: Szamoltulski (controversial one but I liked the big fella), Stevenson, Zemamma, Sproule, GOC and Ambrose


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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

hahaha canny believe you left out a certain goalkeeper from poland mate

Leave Zibi out of this, wasn’t nearly as bad as was made out. Had a few shockers against them but so did a certain Simon Brown… doesn’t get half the stick


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[StarryPloughHSC]

Leave Zibi out of this, wasn’t nearly as bad as was made out. Had a few shockers against them but so did a certain Simon Brown… doesn’t get half the stick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

they were aw dreadful equally to be fair haha a still mind mcneils debut at easter road when the first cross came over and he caught it you would have thought we had scored haha they were dark days in goalie dept man

[StarryPloughHSC]

Also in my 20s so I’ll give a shot anaw… last post was a joke, obviously.

Rocky
Whittaker
Jones
McPake
Murphy
Brown
Thomson
McGinn
Boyle
Griffiths
Deek

Subs: Szamoltulski (controversial one but I liked the big fella), Stevenson, Zemamma, Sproule, GOC and Ambrose


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canny disagree with that squad bud that would be mines aswell

[gbhibby]

Only going on players I have seen play.
Goram
Brownlie
John Collins (LWB)
Stanton
Sauzee
Blackley
Best
SJM
Archibald
Baker
Duncan

[BILLYHIBS]

Mcgeouch before scott brown, personally theres not a chance that would happen but each to their own

:agree:

Scott Brown was different gravy as a box to box midfielder

4.4m back in 2007 no way would Dylan go for anywhere near that at his peak in more modern times

[BSEJVT]

Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

Cubby definitely is not still alive

Was friends with my folks

IIRC he died before my mum who died in 1979

[Edina Street]

Based purely on players I've actually SEEN play for us at their peak, would probably go with:


Marciano

Whittaker Ambrose Jones Murphy

Allan McGeouch McGinn

Boyle Griffiths Fletcher


Subs: Williams, Gray, Stevenson, Brown, Fyvie, Stokes, Cummings

As I was not alive to see many of the players I included in my Dream Team, I need to be forgiven for picking my Dream Team by deducing the best team from what I have read on paper.

But my team based upon what I have actually seen: I am actually going to replace Gary Caldwell with Ulrik Laursen, whom I forgot to put in my Dream Team.

(1) Andy Goram (aged 27)
(2) Steven Whittaker (aged 23)
(3) David Murphy (aged 24)
(4) Franck Sauzee (aged 34)
(5) Ulrik Laursen (aged 26)
(6) John Collins (aged 22)
(7) Gordon Durie (aged 23)
(8) Russell Latapy (aged 30)
(9) Kenny Miller (aged 21)
(10) Leigh Griffiths (aged 22)
(11) Michael O'Neill (aged 25)

Subs

(12) Jim Leighton (aged 35)
(13) Gary Caldwell (aged 24)
(14) John McGinn (aged 24)
(15) Darren Jackson (aged 29)
(16) Gordon Hunter (aged 24)
(17) Scott Brown (aged 22)
(18) Anthony Stokes (aged 22)

[Mick O'Rourke]

Cubby definitely is not still alive

Was friends with my folks

IIRC he died before my mum who died in 1979


I certainly believe your recollection on John over other posts,(confused dates/birth etc)
Its strange so little is available online about John after his playing days or an obituary/record of his death.
Such a contribution he made to the club and like many of his peers the war affected football progress..
Anyone here connected to the club or its historians maybe could look into this.

I found a grainy photo of John on an Aberdeen FC Scottish Cup story.

2nd photo on the link
https://www.aberdeenlive.news/special-features/aberdeens-first-scottish-cup-winning-6889366

[merchiston]

Has anyone else read Pat Stanton's book? Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed reading about what a great team the Turnbull's Tornadoes actually were, I was very disappointed with Pat's selection, and can understand why he ended up resigning from his Hibernian managerial post in 1984.

I won't reveal what his selection was, due to not wanting to infringe upon his copyright, and negatively effect his booksales. But after reading his book, I feel compelled to do my own Hibernian Dream Team, and also ask everyone on this forum what "your" Hibernian Dream Team would be?

Mine is as follows:

(1) Andy Goram (age 27)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Goram

(2) John Brownlie (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brownlie

(3) Erich Schaedler (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Schaedler

(4) Pat Stanton (age 28)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Stanton

(5) John Blackley (age 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blackley

(6) Franck Sauzee (age 34)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck_Sauz%C3%A9e

(7) Gordon Smith (age 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Smith_(footballer,_born_1924)

(8) Bobby Johnstone (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Johnstone

(9) Lawrie Reilly (age 23)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrie_Reilly

(10) Joe Baker (age 21)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Baker

(11) Willie Ormond (age 27)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Ormond

Subs

(12) Jim Leighton (age 35)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leighton

(13) Jock Govan (age 24)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Govan

(14) Eddie Turnbull (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Turnbull

(15) John Cuthbertson (age N/A)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cuthbertson_(footballer,_fl._1939%E2%80%93195 6)

(16) Gary Caldwell (age 24)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Caldwell

(17) John Collins (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Collins_(footballer,_born_1968)

(18) Leigh Griffiths (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Griffiths

Omission

Yes, I am aware that whilst playing for Hibernian, Russell Latapy was voted 33rd best player in the world alongside Roy Keane and Dennis Bergkamp, but I believe Bobby Johnstone was just about the same as Russell Latapy in every other department except from goalscoring. Bobby Johnstone was by far a more prolific goalscoring attacking midfielder than Russell Latapy. Russell Latapy also loses out to John Collins and Eddie Turnbull on the bench due to Eddie and John being far more versatile and capable of filling in a greater number of positions.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Football%3A+Latapy%27s+SPL%27s+sole+poll+star.-a067912159

So, what changes would you make? Leighton instead of Goram? Govan instead of Brownlie? Should Russell have been included anywhere? at who's expense? Jimmy O'Rourke instead of Leigh Griffiths maybe? What about Peter Cormack? He must have been a good player given his success at Liverpool? How would he fit in? Arthur Duncan instead of Ormond perhaps?

What would "your" Hibernian Dream Team be?


Giving my age away now but off the top of my head Peter Cormack, Neill Martin, Willie Hamilton, and Pat Quinn would all make the bench well in front of Gary Caldwell even if I had to shuffle the teamn around

[Edina Street]

Giving my age away now but off the top of my head Peter Cormack, Neill Martin, Willie Hamilton, and Pat Quinn would all make the bench well in front of Gary Caldwell even if I had to shuffle the teamn around

I based my bench on one goalkeeper, two defenders, two midfielders, and two forwards. And on reflection, Ulrik Laursen was actually most probably a better (left sided) centre back than Gary Caldwell, though Alex McLeish mostly deployed him as a left back.

Unfortunately Neill Martin, Willie Hamilton (once compared to Kenny Dalglish by Jock Stein), and Pat Quinn are all attacking players.

I did look at Peter Cormack as a possibility for the midfield position instead of Eddie Turnbull. However I would have been basing my decision upon the two league titles, FA cup, and UEFA cup Peter Cormack won with Liverpool, but I decided in Eddie Turnbull's favour because Hibernian were one of the best sides in Britain during the 1950's, and not just in Scotland. They proved this during the 1953 Coronation Cup by defeating Tottenham Hotspur 2-1 in the Quarter-Final, and Newcastle United 4-0 in the Semi-Final. Unfortunately Hibernian lost out to Celtic in the Final 0-2. But the point being, that playing for one of England's most successful sides does not alone warrant inclusion over Eddie Turnbull. Also, Eddie Turnbull would have won more than nine Scotland caps if it were not for the fact that he fell out with the SFA, mixed with the fact that he was unlucky enough to play his football at the same time as 1947 Great Britain XI goalscorer Billy Steel, whom was admittedly probably "even" better than Eddie, and played in the exact same position as Eddie.

If Dundee's Billy Steel was good enough to make a Great Britain XI squad, and score for them against a "rest of Europe XI", then I deduce from this that Eddie Turnbull must have been a world class player himself to feel aggrieved at being left out of a Scotland squad in favour of Billy Steel. I don't think there are many Hibs players today that would feel they are good enough to feel "aggrieved" at being left out of a squad in favour of a player that is good enough to play for the United Kingdom.

[where'stheslope]

Pat just shows how the club has fallen away in recent years, only Leigh Griffiths played for us in the last 10 years???
We are looking to get better players into the club than hard working journeymen who do a job!
Its all down to how much the club can afford!
Come on Ron, open the purse strings!!!

[merchiston]

[QUOTE=Edina Street;6978262]I based my bench on one goalkeeper, two defenders, two midfielders, and two forwards. And on reflection, Ulrik Laursen was actually most probably a better (left sided) centre back than Gary Caldwell, though Alex McLeish mostly deployed him as a left back.

Unfortunately Neill Martin, Willie Hamilton (once compared to Kenny Dalglish by Jock Stein), and Pat Quinn are all attacking players.

I did look at Peter Cormack as a possibility for the midfield position instead of Eddie Turnbull. However I would have been basing my decision upon the two league titles, FA cup, and UEFA cup Peter Cormack won with Liverpool, but I decided in Eddie Turnbull's favour because Hibernian were one of the best sides in Britain during the 1950's, and not just in Scotland. They proved this during the 1953 Coronation Cup by defeating Tottenham Hotspur 2-1 in the Quarter-Final, and Newcastle United 4-0 in the Semi-Final. Unfortunately Hibernian lost out to Celtic in the Final 0-2. But the point being, that playing for one of England's most successful sides does not alone warrant inclusion over Eddie Turnbull. Also, Eddie Turnbull would have won more than nine Scotland caps if it were not for the fact that he fell out with the SFA, mixed with the fact that he was unlucky enough to play his football at the same time as 1947 Great Britain XI goalscorer Billy Steel, whom was admittedly probably "even" better than Eddie, and played in the exact same position as Eddie.

Fair enough but maybe its the nostalgia kicking in but I would replace Garry Caldwell with Jackie Plenderleith (a great servant) or in his abscence Jim Easton

[Edina Street]

Fair enough but maybe its the nostalgia kicking in but I would replace Garry Caldwell with Jackie Plenderleith (a great servant) or in his abscence Jim Easton

I am going to make First and Last, from Jackie Plenderleith, my next Hibs book to read.

[merchiston]

I am going to make First and Last, from Jackie Plenderleith, my next Hibs book to read.


Good shout. A vastly under rated player who I think only got one cap. Would have got a lot more if he hadn't played at the same time as Billy McNeill. Sorry to labour the point but should be considered before Garry Caldwell

[ian cruise]

Yves Makalamby
Thierry Gatthuessi
Shelton Martis
Rocky Bushiri
Abderaouff Zarabi
Matt Done
Brian Kerr
Kevin McBride
Alan O’Brian
Amadou Konte
Shefki Kuqi


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Are you VillaHibs in disguise? ADMINS!

[cameronw-hfc]

Mcgeouch before scott brown, personally theres not a chance that would happen but each to their own

Just think Dylan at Hibs had potential to be better than Mcginn and Allan but injuries got in the way. Boy knew how to look after a football.

[Allant1981]

Just think Dylan at Hibs had potential to be better than Mcginn and Allan but injuries got in the way. Boy knew how to look after a football.

Not disputing he had potential but still cant see how he would get in before scott brown, the guy was cracking when he was here and mcgeouch was no where near as good in my opinion

[BILLYHIBS]

Not disputing he had potential but still cant see how he would get in before scott brown, the guy was cracking when he was here and mcgeouch was no where near as good in my opinion
:agree:

Pretty sure Scott Brown invented the Dylan McGeouch holding midfielder role at Celtic controlling the pace and tempo of games albeit with a wee bit more aggression and intimidation and even finding the time to referee most games :greengrin

Agree cracking player at Hibs

[loanheadhibby]

Not disputing he had potential but still cant see how he would get in before scott brown, the guy was cracking when he was here and mcgeouch was no where near as good in my opinion

Totally agree, Dylan was very good if far too injury prone but as an all round football player Scott Brown was a couple of rungs above.

[flash]

Just think Dylan at Hibs had potential to be better than Mcginn and Allan but injuries got in the way. Boy knew how to look after a football.

It's a game of opinions but that's a pretty incredible one.

[Edina Street]

I have removed Erich Schaedler from my Hibernian Dream Team, and replaced him with Davie Shaw.
I think Davie Shaw being a left-back that captained the Hibernian team to the 1947-48 league championship, and won nine post world war two caps for Scotland, might suggest that he was likely an even better left-back than Erich Schaedler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davie_Shaw

[cameronw-hfc]

It's a game of opinions but that's a pretty incredible one.

I don't think so, inevitably he ended up nowhere near his potential, but the way he controlled the game and tempo for us during his best days was a joy to watch. He allowed Allan and Mcginn that bit more freedom because they knew if they got into a situation, Dylan was usually there to receive it whether he was in trouble or not.

He ended up nowhere near that and injuries have meant he's not even a guaranteed started for Aberdeen, but during his time at us, when fit he was incredible at times.

[BILLYHIBS]

I have removed Erich Schaedler from my Hibernian Dream Team, and replaced him with Davie Shaw.
I think Davie Shaw being a left back that captained the Hibernian team to the 1947-48 league championship, and won nine post ww2 caps for Scotland, might suggest that he was likely an even better left back than Erich Schaedler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davie_Shaw

Funnily enough I was actually looking at a video of Davy Shaw this morning and was thinking the same

https://youtu.be/Mu8T2jQVQAI

Loved Erich Schaedler but he would be the first to admit he wasn’t the best footballer or most naturally gifted often over reaching for the ball but what he lacked in football ability he would make up in fitness physique attitude commitment and a love for our club

Who can forget his crunching tackle in the build up to Alan Gordon’s second goal on 01-01-1973 when he rattled the Hearts defenders bones like a xylophone?

[Edina Street]

Funnily enough I was actually looking at a video of Davy Shaw this morning and was thinking the same

https://youtu.be/Mu8T2jQVQAI

Loved Erich Schaedler but he would be the first to admit he wasn’t the best footballer or most naturally gifted often over reaching for the ball but what he lacked in football ability he would make up in fitness physique attitude commitment and a love for our club

Who can forget his crunching tackle in the build up to Alan Gordon’s second goal on 01-01-1973 when he rattled the Hearts defenders bones like a xylophone?

Thanks for posting that video! Enjoyed watching that!

[BILLYHIBS]

Thanks for posting that video! Enjoyed watching that!

👍

Thought you might like it

[Edina Street]

… and then put Gary Caldwell in their improved offering ��

You might be right to give me stick about my inclusion of Gary Caldwell in a greatest ever Hibernian team. The more I research on paper, the more I become convinced that Hibernian's greatest ever team would work best with a 3-5-2 formation, with Davie Shaw replacing Erich Schaedler before being moved in to the left centre-back position, with Pat Stanton or Franck Sauzee inbetween Davie Shaw and Jock Govan, or, in the defensive midfield position (the two are interchangable). This sadly means John Brownlie makes his way to the bench along with John Blackley, but it does open up an opportunity to throw an extra central-midfielder in to the mix. So I can bring Eddie Turnbull on to the field and give Russell Latapy his rightful place in Hibernian's greatest ever squad, at the expense of Gary Caldwell.

I will update my team now.

[loanheadhibby]

I don't think so, inevitably he ended up nowhere near his potential, but the way he controlled the game and tempo for us during his best days was a joy to watch. He allowed Allan and Mcginn that bit more freedom because they knew if they got into a situation, Dylan was usually there to receive it whether he was in trouble or not.

He ended up nowhere near that and injuries have meant he's not even a guaranteed started for Aberdeen, but during his time at us, when fit he was incredible at times.
Incredible?
He was pretty good to be fair but incredible- hardly.

[JohnM1875]

Incredible?
He was pretty good to be fair but incredible- hardly.

Personally think McGeouch was undoubtedly incredible at what he did for us in that midfield three. There's a reason we've struggled to replace what he offered as much as we've struggled to replace what McGinn offered us.

[cad]

I've never seen them play ,but older heads than mine said that Willie Hamilton and The Baker Boy were our best and George of course .

[BILLYHIBS]

I've never seen them play ,but older heads than mine said that Willie Hamilton and The Baker Boy were our best and George of course .

Jock Stein and King Paddy said Willie Hamilton was the best player they ever worked with

Some compliment

The Baker Boy wisnae a slouch either

George Best still had the fitba brain at Hibs

[Mick O'Rourke]

Jock Stein and King Paddy said Willie Hamilton was the best player they ever worked with

Some compliment

The Baker Boy wisnae a slouch either

George Best still had the fitba brain at Hibs

Willie Hamilton would be first pick if i was to name a dream team.
Willie without doubt in my opinion the most talented,gifted,natural player i saw in a Hibs jersey and that includes Sauzee.

Along with his idol,Joe Baker,Willie was also great favourite of Jimmy O'Rourke.

Jimmy could rattle of the 1902 cup winning team...backwards as well ,by the way !
The players at ER when Hammy was around were in awe of his skills and his reading of a game.
Willie could take the baw awe the way up the park,switch one way,then the other,while beating players without loooking at the ball.
Remarkable,truly remarkable.

Having played against Willie Hamilton,the great Real Madrid legend, Ference Puskas stated.
" Willie Hamilton would not have looked out of place in a Real Madrid side"

That was the Real Madrid team who had just won 5 European Cups on the trot.

PS
This name has been mentioned a couple of times.
Jimmy O'Rourke would say that the Irishman John Parke was one of the finest defenders he played alongside.Early 60s.
Remarkable when you note that John only played 20 odd games for us before moving to Sunderland.

Another would be the"The Penalty King",our left back Joe Davis.
Also early 1960s.
Joe scored more than 34 goals from left back !!
Many penalties,of course,hence the nickname.

Josh, pay attention at the back there :greengrin

[SideBurns]

Willie Hamilton would be first pick if i was to name a dream team.
Willie without doubt in my opinion the most talented,gifted,natural player i saw in a Hibs jersey and that includes Sauzee.

Along with his idol,Joe Baker,Willie was also great favourite of Jimmy O'Rourke.

Jimmy could rattle of the 1902 cup winning team...backwards as well ,by the way !
The players at ER when Hammy was around were in awe of his skills and his reading of a game.
Willie could take the baw awe the way up the park,switch one way,then the other,while beating players without loooking at the ball.
Remarkable,truly remarkable.

Having played against Willie Hamilton,the great Real Madrid legend, Ference Puskas stated.
" Willie Hamilton would not have looked out of place in a Real Madrid side"

That was the Real Madrid team who had just won 5 European Cups on the trot.

PS
This name has been mentioned a couple of times.
Jimmy O'Rourke would say that the Irishman John Parke was one of the finest defenders he played alongside.Early 60s.
Remarkable when you note that John only played 20 odd games for us before moving to Sunderland.

Another would be the"The Penalty King",our left back Joe Davis.
Also early 1960s.
Joe scored more than 34 goals from left back !!
Many penalties,of course,hence the nickname.

Josh, pay attention at the back there :greengrin

Funny how times have changed.

Andy Robertson getting criticism as he was spotted with a bottle of beer in his hand 3 days before a Scotland gemme.

Ma auld man used to tell me Willie Hamilton would run onto the park with a big sweat patch on his shirt - presumably from the previous night's bevvy (not one 330ml bottle, we can safely assume)!

[Mick O'Rourke]

Funny how times have changed.

Andy Robertson getting criticism as he was spotted with a bottle of beer in his hand 3 days before a Scotland gemme.

Ma auld man used to tell me Willie Hamilton would run onto the park with a big sweat patch on his shirt - presumably from the previous night's bevvy (not one 330ml bottle, we can safely assume)!


I remember when Jimmy O'Rourke was recovering from his leg break,our manager then Jock Stein,who lived on the Queensferry Road near Barnton would give Jimmy a lift home from training/treatment some days
We stayed not far at Clermiston Park.
(Our mother.. "cup of tea",Mr Stein?!)

Jock shared that duty with goalkeeper Ronnie Simpson,who lived up the road from the Rainbow Lounge (now Spice Kitchen)
Ok ,Sometimes Willie Hamilton would also be in the car .
It was years later that i was told if a very important game on the following day,Willie would stay at Jock's house that evening/night
( Mrs Stein.. "hot water bottle and cocoa,Willie!?)

His good pals i recall were the great Jim Baxter, his old Hearts pal,Norrie Davidson and our very own Eric Stevenson.
What a wonderful group to have met at a party/pub!

Willie's sister,either in a book or magazine article stated that Willie did not drink to the excess that people painted him doing.
Must be some truth there,He was a giant on a football pitch.
A very unique and talented footballer.

PS
Your Dad was correct about the sweat patch sometimes.!

[Stairway 2 7]

https://archive.ph/pMGU

Cracking article about willie

[SideBurns]

I remember when Jimmy O'Rourke was recovering from his leg break,our manager then Jock Stein,who lived on the Queensferry Road near Barnton would give Jimmy a lift home from training/treatment some days
We stayed not far at Clermiston Park.
(Our mother.. "cup of tea",Mr Stein?!)

Jock shared that duty with goalkeeper Ronnie Simpson,who lived up the road from the Rainbow Lounge (now Spice Kitchen)
Ok ,Sometimes Willie Hamilton would also be in the car .
It was years later that i was told if a very important game on the following day,Willie would stay at Jock's house that evening/night
( Mrs Stein.. "hot water bottle and cocoa,Willie!?)

His good pals i recall were the great Jim Baxter, his old Hearts pal,Norrie Davidson and our very own Eric Stevenson.
What a wonderful group to have met at a party/pub!

Willie's sister,either in a book or magazine article stated that Willie did not drink to the excess that people painted him doing.
Must be some truth there,He was a giant on a football pitch.
A very unique and talented footballer.

PS
Your Dad was correct about the sweat patch sometimes.!

Ha ha! Great story, Mick. Magic hearing this kind of stuff.

My dad loved watching Willie Hamilton. Glad to hear his sister put the record straight, although given how good he was on the ball from what I hear, I presume his lifestyle prevented him from going as far in his career as his talent warranted. He's not alone in that though, and we don't have to go back to the 60s to find other examples, sadly.

[Edina Street]

There is footage from the highlights of the Hibernian vs Real Madrid game of Willie Hamilton playing. He certainly looks like a very good player. I wonder why he only won one Scotland cap?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFeYSJVaYxk

[BILLYHIBS]

Check out Willie Hamilton’s cracking goal against the Hearts from an impossible angle pure genius

https://youtu.be/l3Z0Qa7sjDg

[Edina Street]

I stick with Bobby Johnstone over Willie Hamilton, due to the 142 goals Bobby scored for Hibs in only 263 appearances. This is an incredible goal return from a playmaker. This is more than one goal every two games, and completely overshadows Willie's 15 goals in 50 games, which is less than one goal every three games.

Here is Bobby Johnstone scoring for Scotland against England in a 1951 Scottish 3-2 win at Wembley.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkzp--eML04

[BILLYHIBS]

I stick with Bobby Johnstone over Willie Hamilton, due to the 142 goals Bobby scored for Hibs in only 263 appearances. This is an incredible goal return from a playmaker. This is more than one goal every two games, and completely overshadows Willie's 15 goals in 50 games, which is less than one goal every three games.

Here is Bobby Johnstone scoring for Scotland against England in a 1951 one-all draw at Wembley.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkzp--eML04

2-3 win to win the Home International Championship

Bobby Johnstone 33 Lawrie Reilly 47 and Billy Liddell 53

[ancient hibee]

You might be right to give me stick about my inclusion of Gary Caldwell in a greatest ever Hibernian team. The more I research on paper, the more I become convinced that Hibernian's greatest ever team would work best with a 3-5-2 formation, with Davie Shaw replacing Erich Schaedler before being moved in to the left centre-back position, with Pat Stanton or Franck Sauzee inbetween Davie Shaw and Jock Govan, or, in the defensive midfield position (the two are interchangable). This sadly means John Brownlie makes his way to the bench along with John Blackley, but it does open up an opportunity to throw an extra central-midfielder in to the mix. So I can bring Eddie Turnbull on to the field and give Russell Latapy his rightful place in Hibernian's greatest ever squad, at the expense of Gary Caldwell.

I will update my team now.

Pat Stanton would be the wrong choice as a central defender in a three man defence. Like John Blackley he was a second ball central defender -neither wanted to be first man up which is why they seldom played together as defenders. Pat played a few games as centre half but was taken to the cleaners a few times.Pat played as an out and out defender long before he went to Celtic(and certainly wasn't turned into one by Stein as you said in one of your posts) but was best as sweeper. When Blackley came along Stanton moved forward and became the complete midfielder-defending,attacking and dictating the tempo of the game. He was much better than the modern defensive midfielder.

Incidentally John MacNamee was our best centre half that I have seen,followed by George Stewart.I'm surprised that not many mention them. Maybe shows how old I'm getting.

Bobby Johnstone was in great form when he left for Manchester City and turned the clock back once he got fit when he returned from Oldham.Along with Willie Hamilton he was in a group of two as the best Hibs midfielders I have seen. Both could be described as "free spirits" off the park.

[Edina Street]

Pat Stanton would be the wrong choice as a central defender in a three man defence. Like John Blackley he was a second ball central defender -neither wanted to be first man up which is why they seldom played together as defenders. Pat played a few games as centre half but was taken to the cleaners a few times.Pat played as an out and out defender long before he went to Celtic(and certainly wasn't turned into one by Stein as you said in one of your posts) but was best as sweeper. When Blackley came along Stanton moved forward and became the complete midfielder-defending,attacking and dictating the tempo of the game. He was much better than the modern defensive midfielder.

Incidentally John MacNamee was our best centre half that I have seen,followed by George Stewart.I'm surprised that not many mention them. Maybe shows how old I'm getting.

Bobby Johnstone was in great form when he left for Manchester City and turned the clock back once he got fit when he returned from Oldham.Along with Willie Hamilton he was in a group of two as the best Hibs midfielders I have seen. Both could be described as "free spirits" off the park.

I actually put Pat Stanton in central defence due to Pat writing in his book that he believed his own best position to be central defence. Though admittedly I don't recall him elaborating on what formation he was best suited to, nor what his best partnership would have been. Though he did pick himself in a back two alongside Franck Sauzee.

[BILLYHIBS]

Pat Stanton was signed by Jock Stein to shore up his leaky defence as a sweeper behind Roddy McDonald and Shuggy Edvaldson


https://www.celticfc.com/news/2021/september/Becoming-a-Bhoy-Pat-Stanton/

[gbhibby]

Pat Stanton was signed by Jock Stein to shore up his leaky defence as a sweeper behind Roddy McDonald and Shuggy Edvaldson


https://www.celticfc.com/news/2021/september/Becoming-a-Bhoy-Pat-Stanton/
Charlie Nicholas had Pat in his Celtic dream team a few years ago and could not believe how good he was.

[Edina Street]

Charlie Nicholas had Pat in his Celtic dream team a few years ago and could not believe how good he was.

Some extended highlights here of Hibernian defeating Liverpool 1-0 at Easter Road during a 1975 UEFA Cup encounter. It is clear to see just how good Hibernian players were in those days, before the decline. (playback has been disabled, but simply click "watch on youtube")


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQJ5Xzw3Qrw

[BILLYHIBS]

Some extended highlights here of Hibernian defeating Liverpool 1-0 at Easter Road during a 1975 UEFA Cup match. It is clear to see just how good Hibernian players were in these days, before the decline. (playback has been disabled, but simply click "watch on youtube")


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQJ5Xzw3Qrw

Attended that game it was like standing fully clothed under a shower in the North Enclosure

[gbhibby]

Attended that game it was like standing fully clothed under a shower in the North Enclosure
Yes but the soaking was worth it. My abiding memory from the game was Sloop up against Keegan and how Sloop kept him quiet. Keegans movement was something else the way he bent his runs but JB was too clever for him that evening.

[BILLYHIBS]

Yes but the soaking was worth it. My abiding memory from the game was Sloop up against Keegan and how Sloop kept him quiet. Keegans movement was something else the way he bent his runs but JB was too clever for him that evening.

Remember singing ‘ Keegan wants his Mammy!’ as he had left the England Training Camp and went home to his Mum and Dad’s :greengrin