Real Madrid's Offside Goal

[The Harp Awakes]

The BT Sport, on air refereeing expert (Walton), claimed tonight that Real Madrid's 'goal' just before HT was rightly chopped off for offside. His reasoning was that a Liverpool player knocked the ball onto another Liverpool player who unintentionally, deflected the ball into Benzema's path who scored but, as he was in an offside position, it was no goal.

If that is correct, does it mean it is offside in the following scenario?:

Attacking player is in an offside position in the opposition 6 yard box. Defending goalkeeper strides forward with the ball at his feet, goes to smash the ball up the park but he hits his defender with the ball, who is standing on the penalty spot. The ball bounces back off the defender (unintentionally) to the 'offside' attacker, who smashes the ball into the net. No goal for offside.

That seems to be what was inferred by Walton. Is that correct? If so, you learn something every day!

[Stairway 2 7]

Difference is real player tried to play a pass last night I think, so you're scenario would be a goal as no other real player

[McGruber]

Difference is real player tried to play a pass last night I think, so you're scenario would be a goal as no other real player

I'm not sure - that's not what they were suggesting in the commentary. Sounds like a change in the rule has come in, one I hadn't heard of. For instance, I've always grew up that the ball needs to be played forward by the attacking team, anyting coming off the defending team, be it pass/deflection etc means it is onside - 'came of the other team'. They said quite clearly last night it is only if the pass back/ball back is deliberate? That's new to me.

If it deflects of the defending team after attacking team plays it first it is offside - but we knew that anyway.

In your example, yes, sounds like that is now offside.

[Callum_62]

The BT Sport, on air refereeing expert (Walton), claimed tonight that Real Madrid's 'goal' just before HT was rightly chopped off for offside. His reasoning was that a Liverpool player knocked the ball onto another Liverpool player who unintentionally, deflected the ball into Benzema's path who scored but, as he was in an offside position, it was no goal.

If that is correct, does it mean it is offside in the following scenario?:

Attacking player is in an offside position in the opposition 6 yard box. Defending goalkeeper strides forward with the ball at his feet, goes to smash the ball up the park but he hits his defender with the ball, who is standing on the penalty spot. The ball bounces back off the defender (unintentionally) to the 'offside' attacker, who smashes the ball into the net. No goal for offside.

That seems to be what was inferred by Walton. Is that correct? If so, you learn something every day!I think there will need to be a touch by the attacking team somewhere in there

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[StarryPloughHSC]

is it no daft that it only has to hit your hand and its a penalty yet you've got to pass it back to the offside player intentionally for him to be deemed onside? The goal should have stood for me like

[Broken Gnome]

The confusing thing is the presence of 'deliberate' in the rules. No one meant to play the ball to Benzema - the Real player deliberately went for goal which is the most obvious forward movement, but the Liverpool defender(s) obviously intended to get something on the ball and likely were trying to knock it out of play.

It's only by chance that the combination of three players sent it to Benzema, so pretty harsh of the rules to declare one touch mattered when the other one/two didn't.

[Caversham Green]

If you're offside when a teammate plays the ball you remain offside whether a defender subsequently touches it or not. Benzema's teammate appears to have played the ball or it wouldn't have gone in the direction it did, so if there was only one player between Benzema and the goal line when his teammate played the ball offside is the correct decision.

Edit: That was the old rule - not the case now apparently - if a defender deliberately plays the ball he becomes onside. That suggests the decision was harsh unless Benzema was offside at the original long cross into the box.

[B.H.F.C]

The confusing thing is the presence of 'deliberate' in the rules. No one meant to play the ball to Benzema - the Real player deliberately went for goal which is the most obvious forward movement, but the Liverpool defender(s) obviously intended to get something on the ball and likely were trying to knock it out of play.

It's only by chance that the combination of three players sent it to Benzema, so pretty harsh of the rules to declare one touch mattered when the other one/two didn't.

I eventually understood why it was disallowed, because Valverde touched it forward before Fabinho made the tackle. Think it’s a terrible rule though, especially when Valverde’s touch was taking it nowhere near Benzema.

[JimBHibees]

Difference is real player tried to play a pass last night I think, so you're scenario would be a goal as no other real player

Yes the goal last night was offside because Valverde played it forward onto the Liverpool players then onto Benzema

[bigwheel]

One thing for sure - it’s an example where it’s another bonkers change to the laws of the game - they seem to have taken it from simple to complex and made it worse …

[matty_f]

If you're offside when a teammate plays the ball you remain offside whether a defender subsequently touches it or not. Benzema's teammate appears to have played the ball or it wouldn't have gone in the direction it did, so if there was only one player between Benzema and the goal line when his teammate played the ball offside is the correct decision.
:agree: The TV pundits, surprisingly, managed to make a meal of the explanation.

Essentially Benzema is offside when the Real player knocks the ball forward. The Liverpool defender’s touch is discounted because it was not a deliberate pass (had it been, it would be the next phase of play and Benzene would have been onside).

I agree with you that it was the correct decision.

[bigwheel]

:agree: The TV pundits, surprisingly, managed to make a meal of the explanation.

Essentially Benzema is offside when the Real player knocks the ball forward. The Liverpool defender’s touch is discounted because it was not a deliberate pass (had it been, it would be the next phase of play and Benzene would have been onside).

I agree with you that it was the correct decision.

I’ve watched it in slo mo a few times and can’t see Valverde touch it ..seems to come off Konate and then Fabinho…I know why they chose to disallow it, but not sure it’s the right call

Anyway, didn’t affect the outcome ..

[easty]

I’ve watched it in slo mo a few times and can’t see Valverde touch it ..seems to come off Konate and then Fabinho…I know why they chose to disallow it, but not sure it’s the right call

Anyway, didn’t affect the outcome ..

That's my thoughts too. I think they got it wrong last night. Goal should've stood.

[LeithMike]

One thing for sure - it’s an example where it’s another bonkers change to the laws of the game - they seem to have taken it from simple to complex and made it worse …Unbelievably complex. Fair play to the assistant referee for getting it right.

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[Hibbyradge]

:agree: The TV pundits, surprisingly, managed to make a meal of the explanation.

Essentially Benzema is offside when the Real player knocks the ball forward. The Liverpool defender’s touch is discounted because it was not a deliberate pass (had it been, it would be the next phase of play and Benzene would have been onside).

I agree with you that it was the correct decision.


It wasn't a deliberate pass, but it was a deliberate action by the Liverpool defenders which caused the ball to deflect to Benzema.

I thought it was the right decision at the time but I'm now not at all sure.

[Caversham Green]

It wasn't a deliberate pass, but it was a deliberate action by the Liverpool defenders which caused the ball to deflect to Benzema.

I thought it was the right decision at the time but I'm now not at all sure.

That's why I edited my original post - it didn't just hit off the defenders, they made a move to block the shot. Maybe the 'phase of play' is the relevant factor in that it's difficult to argue that the ball reaching Benzema was the result of a new phase of play.

[Eyrie]

:agree: The TV pundits, surprisingly, managed to make a meal of the explanation.

Essentially Benzema is offside when the Real player knocks the ball forward. The Liverpool defender’s touch is discounted because it was not a deliberate pass (had it been, it would be the next phase of play and Benzene would have been onside).

I agree with you that it was the correct decision.

That would make sense and I'd agree with him being offside when his teammate touched it, but the explanation last night was focused on the Liverpool player's touch.

[blackpoolhibs]

I thought the Real player made the first touch with the ball playing it forward, Benzema was in an offside position when that happened. I have no idea what the other touches by the Liverpool players have to do with it now, they have made an easy decision complicated for no apparent reason. 🙄

[bigwheel]

I thought the Real player made the first touch with the ball playing it forward, Benzema was in an offside position when that happened. I have no idea what the other touches by the Liverpool players have to do with it now, they have made an easy decision complicated for no apparent reason. [emoji849]

It’s hard to fully detect , but it doesn’t look like the Madrid player touches it at all…that’s why it’s so controversial for me ..it seems to be Konate hitting it off Fabinho…

[blackpoolhibs]

I thought the Real player touched it first, i could be wrong but that's what I thought, the rest i just don't understand

[WeeRussell]

I thought the goal should have stood. And ironically it would have if it wasn’t for VAR.

[BoomtownHibees]

I thought the goal should have stood. And ironically it would have if it wasn’t for VAR.

I don’t think it would have. I’m sure the flag went up

[Skol]

This was a situation full of ambiguity and you could call it either way and believe it’s right. Tough for the officials

They didn’t focus much on this but I had a strong suspicion benzema was offside with the original ball through but I do t think they looked at that

[Onceinawhile]

I thought the Real player touched it first, i could be wrong but that's what I thought, the rest i just don't understand

Real player touches it first, then comes off konaye, then off fabinho to benzema.

So aye, probably offside under the rules.

The rules seem daft though

[JeMeSouviens]

If you're offside when a teammate plays the ball you remain offside whether a defender subsequently touches it or not. Benzema's teammate appears to have played the ball or it wouldn't have gone in the direction it did, so if there was only one player between Benzema and the goal line when his teammate played the ball offside is the correct decision.

Edit: That was the old rule - not the case now apparently - if a defender deliberately plays the ball he becomes onside. That suggests the decision was harsh unless Benzema was offside at the original long cross into the box.

I’m pretty sure the interpretation of “deliberately plays the ball” is supposed to be is in control and tries to pass to a team mate. Clearances and tackles don’t count. So if the Madrid forward touched the ball (think he did) Benzema is offside and neither Liverpool touch would be deemed to have reset the phase.

[sadtom]

I can’t believe that fitba fans and so called ‘experts’ in the studio don’t know the rules.
It was clearly offside. At the moment the Real player played played the ball forward KB was in an offside position. It does not mater how many players the ball ricochet’s off the ball got to him from the initial ‘pass’. Even the bumbling ‘official’ in the studio didn’t explain it well. He stated it would have had to played deliberately by the Liverpool player after the initial pass, that’s true a deflection or ricochet doesn’t count. But it would also have had to have been a second phase from the moment the original forward pass was made…which it wasn’t. So even if either or both those Liverpool players had deliberately played the ball back after the first pass was made it still should have been chalked off.
Attacking team play the ball forward. Ball reaches striker in offside position who scores. H’s offside no matter who or what it hits en route to the goal scorer. Simple. It’s not rocket science.

[WeeRussell]

I can’t believe that fitba fans and so called ‘experts’ in the studio don’t know the rules.
It was clearly offside. At the moment the Real player played played the ball forward KB was in an offside position. It does not mater how many players the ball ricochet’s off the ball got to him from the initial ‘pass’. Even the bumbling ‘official’ in the studio didn’t explain it well. He stated it would have had to played deliberately by the Liverpool player after the initial pass, that’s true a deflection or ricochet doesn’t count. But it would also have had to have been a second phase from the moment the original forward pass was made…which it wasn’t. So even if either or both those Liverpool players had deliberately played the ball back after the first pass was made it still should have been chalked off.
Attacking team play the ball forward. Ball reaches striker in offside position who scores. H’s offside no matter who or what it hits en route to the goal scorer. Simple. It’s not rocket science.

How did it take you so many words to explain something so simple?

You’d have been quicker typing about rocket science.

[WeeRussell]

I’m pretty sure the interpretation of “deliberately plays the ball” is supposed to be is in control and tries to pass to a team mate. Clearances and tackles don’t count. So if the Madrid forward touched the ball (think he did) Benzema is offside and neither Liverpool touch would be deemed to have reset the phase.

All 3 of those involved were challenging in my opinion with none of them deliberately ‘playing’ the ball in any direction. I’m guessing, though, that the deliberate part only applies to defenders ‘changing the phase’?

In which case I think it comes down to whether the madrid boy actually touched the ball, as mentioned above.

[WeeRussell]

I don’t think it would have. I’m sure the flag went up

In that case I stand corrected 👍

I walked back into the room just as VAR were looking at it and wondered if they were checking the original ball upfield to benzema… that’s not why the flag was up was it? Either way you’re right, if linesman flagged it wasn’t counting.

I still despise VAR though 😀

[sadtom]

How did it take you so many words to explain something so simple?

You’d have been quicker typing about rocket science.

I was spelling it out for the hard of thinking…glad it worked.

[StarryPloughHSC]

I can’t believe that fitba fans and so called ‘experts’ in the studio don’t know the rules.
It was clearly offside. At the moment the Real player played played the ball forward KB was in an offside position. It does not mater how many players the ball ricochet’s off the ball got to him from the initial ‘pass’. Even the bumbling ‘official’ in the studio didn’t explain it well. He stated it would have had to played deliberately by the Liverpool player after the initial pass, that’s true a deflection or ricochet doesn’t count. But it would also have had to have been a second phase from the moment the original forward pass was made…which it wasn’t. So even if either or both those Liverpool players had deliberately played the ball back after the first pass was made it still should have been chalked off.
Attacking team play the ball forward. Ball reaches striker in offside position who scores. H’s offside no matter who or what it hits en route to the goal scorer. Simple. It’s not rocket science.

to be fair it is hard to keep up they change them every 5 minutes.

[WeeRussell]

I was spelling it out for the hard of thinking…glad it worked.

Did it? I’m not sure anyone that ‘spells’ or uses grammar the way you do will have read it yet.

[sadtom]

Did it? I’m not sure anyone that ‘spells’ or uses grammar the way you do will have read it yet.

As long as you understood it…my work is done.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Wasn't the offside given for the moment before all the deflections anyway, making what happened afterwards moot?

If not, I wasn't aware that an unintentional deflection off a defender doesn't count in relation to offside.

[ClermistonGreen]

Keeper made an erse of it
chaos and confusion
Stramash and a scramble
Defenders in a panic
attacker blooters it in
Its a goal ! Ya beauty
Game was so much more simpler in the old days

[I'm Spartacus]

The interesting part for me was how long it took for the 'panel' to watch it in slow motion and come to a decision, that is still contentious.

[at last 61]

Onside, offside, they really have to simplify things, and surely Robertson was in between the attacking player and the goalkeeper

[Onceinawhile]

Onside, offside, they really have to simplify things, and surely Robertson was in between the attacking player and the goalkeeper

He was, but Benzema was closer to the goal than the keeper, so there was only one player between Benzema and the goal. There has to be two.

[JeMeSouviens]

Wasn't the offside given for the moment before all the deflections anyway, making what happened afterwards moot?

If not, I wasn't aware that an unintentional deflection off a defender doesn't count in relation to offside.

The moment the RM player plays the ball determines if Benzema is in an offside position. What happens afterwards determines if he "gains an advantage" from that, which is the actual offence.

Who'd be a lino?

[at last 61]

He was, but Benzema was closer to the goal than the keeper, so there was only one player between Benzema and the goal. There has to be two.

When did that change? I wondered why no one else was say that, stupid idea if you ask me

[JeMeSouviens]

When did that change? I wondered why no one else was say that, stupid idea if you ask me

1925 :greengrin

[Onceinawhile]

When did that change? I wondered why no one else was say that, stupid idea if you ask me

That's pretty much always been the rule.

If there isn't two players on the defending team closer to the goal than the attacker, then they are offside.

We are all just so used to it being the goalie +1 that we sometimes forget that he is one of the two.