Champions League

[Scouse Hibee]

You have your opinions, I have mine. No need to make it personal.

Chuck in Heysel and more recently the Man City team bus attack and there does appear to be an element of the Liverpool support that think they can do what they want and claim it was someone else’s fault after the event.

Because your opinion is an ill thought out dig blaming Liverpool fans for every event that happens, a dig that started doing the rounds after Hillsborough because of what had happened at Heysel. So yes I am being personal when I say you are talking pish if you are going to use that generalisation which is pathetic.

[Paulie Walnuts]

FFS. Have you read the reports, and listened to peoples stories?

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Yes, I have read the reports - https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/30/liverpool-fans-caused-initial-problems-in-paris-says-french-sports-minister

Yes I have read peoples stories and I absolutely have sympathy for the fans who done nothing wrong and were treated appallingly by the police.

Yes I have watched the videos which clearly show fans who are not in the midst of a crush breaking through a barrier and running into the stadium and yes, they’re most definitely misbehaving while doing that.

[WeeRussell]

Isn’t it possible that there was some degree of wrongdoing (with evidence) on every side mentioned by various posters on this thread?

[kaimendhibs]

Yes, I have read the reports - https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/30/liverpool-fans-caused-initial-problems-in-paris-says-french-sports-minister

Yes I have read peoples stories. Yes I have watched the videos which clearly show fans who are not in the midst of a crush breaking through a barrier and running into the stadium.Wow. You hate Liverpool dont you?


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[Paulie Walnuts]

Wow. You hate Liverpool dont you?


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I have no real feelings on Liverpool either way, whether that’s the football team, the city or the people.

[kaimendhibs]

I have no real feelings on Liverpool either way, whether that’s the football team, the city or the people.Hmmmm. Not so sure.

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[CropleyWasGod]

Isn’t it possible that there was some degree of wrongdoing (with evidence) on every side mentioned by various posters on this thread?

That kind of balanced thinking has no place on here.🙂

[Paulie Walnuts]

Isn’t it possible that there was some degree of wrongdoing (with evidence) on every side mentioned by various posters on this thread?

Absolutely. I’ve said as much a few times, the police are clearly not covered in glory here either.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hmmmm. Not so sure.

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That’s nice. I’m sure I know more about myself than you do thankfully.

[Stairway 2 7]

Good in depth report, wouldn't read if mind already made up though

https://www.goal.com/en/news/robbed-attacked-armed-police-liverpool-fans-champions-league/blt70097926d35c604d

[Hibernia&Alba]

That kind of balanced thinking has no place on here.🙂

Aye, waiting for the findings of a proper inquiry would seem logical.

[hibsbollah]

Isn’t it possible that there was some degree of wrongdoing (with evidence) on every side mentioned by various posters on this thread?

In a group of 80,000 people there’s going to be a fair concentration of ne’er do wells scattered about you can film acting like an erse. It’s spectacularly missing the point though…kettling thousands of people in confined spaces , setting tear gas off on whole groups because of the actions of one or two and having inoperable broken turnstiles in the first place is the ACTUAL reason there was trouble, it’s bizarre this thread has gone on for so long.

[hibsbollah]

Good in depth report, wouldn't read if mind already made up though

https://www.goal.com/en/news/robbed-attacked-armed-police-liverpool-fans-champions-league/blt70097926d35c604d

That’s a shocking read. Some serious issues in French society just now.

[Libby Hibby]

Because your opinion is an ill thought out dig blaming Liverpool fans for every event that happens, a dig that started doing the rounds after Hillsborough because of what had happened at Heysel. So yes I am being personal when I say you are talking pish if you are going to use that generalisation which is pathetic.

And the Man City bus incident, did that not happen? I’m not generalising anything. My point is that any unsavoury incident that involves Liverpool, the narrative is that it is never their fault. That might well be true in some instances but the narrative before confirmation is all very predictable.

[Scouse Hibee]

And the Man City bus incident, did that not happen? I’m not generalising anything. My point is that any unsavoury incident that involves Liverpool, the narrative is that it is never their fault. That might well be true in some instances but the narrative before confirmation is all very predictable.

Yes you are, you posted
“It’s always someone else’s fault when Liverpool fans are involved.”

[Libby Hibby]

Yes you are, you posted
“It’s always someone else’s fault when Liverpool fans are involved.”

That statement is true.

[Scouse Hibee]

That statement is true.

🤡

[He's here!]

BBC: 'Ticket fraud at Champions League final on massive, industrial scale - France'

Champions League final: France hits out at ticket fraud as policing row rages - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61630201)

[WeeRussell]

In a group of 80,000 people there’s going to be a fair concentration of ne’er do wells scattered about you can film acting like an erse. It’s spectacularly missing the point though…kettling thousands of people in confined spaces , setting tear gas off on whole groups because of the actions of one or two and having inoperable broken turnstiles in the first place is the ACTUAL reason there was trouble, it’s bizarre this thread has gone on for so long.

I’m not missing the point HB (realise you may have been referring to those posting videos of fans and not me), in fact I was alluding to exactly what you’ve just said re the thread still going on.

[Chorley Hibee]

And the Man City bus incident, did that not happen? I’m not generalising anything. My point is that any unsavoury incident that involves Liverpool, the narrative is that it is never their fault. That might well be true in some instances but the narrative before confirmation is all very predictable.

When did Liverpool not take responsibility for the Man City bus attack then?

[WeeRussell]

Absolutely. I’ve said as much a few times, the police are clearly not covered in glory here either.

I know mate 👍

[hibsbollah]

I’m not missing the point HB (realise you may have been referring to those posting videos of fans and not me), in fact I was alluding to exactly what you’ve just said re the thread still going on.

Yes I know mate :aok:

[He's here!]

In a group of 80,000 people there’s going to be a fair concentration of ne’er do wells scattered about you can film acting like an erse. It’s spectacularly missing the point though…kettling thousands of people in confined spaces , setting tear gas off on whole groups because of the actions of one or two and having inoperable broken turnstiles in the first place is the ACTUAL reason there was trouble, it’s bizarre this thread has gone on for so long.

Has this been confirmed? If so, the fault must have occurred close to the time the turnstiles were due to be opened as it's surely inconceivable they wouldn't have tested them prior to the event - and even less imaginable that they would decide just to wing it with minimal turnstiles open. If turnstile malfunction was the case why didn't they announce this at the time rather than claiming counterfeit tickets had caused the turnstile issues?

A lot of unanswered questions to be addressed.

[Stairway 2 7]

Has this been confirmed? If so, the fault must have occurred close to the time the turnstiles were due to be opened as it's surely inconceivable they wouldn't have tested them prior to the event - and even less imaginable that they would decide just to wing it with minimal turnstiles open. If turnstile malfunction was the case why didn't they announce this at the time rather than claiming counterfeit tickets had caused the turnstile issues?

A lot of unanswered questions to be addressed.

Why would they take the blame for the obvious **** show of a final they organised. The dozens of press reports from both sides and independents means they won't get it again any time soon

[A Hi-Bee]

Has this been confirmed? If so, the fault must have occurred close to the time the turnstiles were due to be opened as it's surely inconceivable they wouldn't have tested them prior to the event - and even less imaginable that they would decide just to wing it with minimal turnstiles open. If turnstile malfunction was the case why didn't they announce this at the time rather than claiming counterfeit tickets had caused the turnstile issues?

A lot of unanswered questions to be addressed.

Hey its a French thing, they dont do well with answering difficult questions.

[kaimendhibs]

Stubbsy 90+2. Any comment?

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[kaimendhibs]

Any chance of a pic of a forged ticket? Surely if so many were going around?

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[Lago]

I have no real feelings on Liverpool either way, whether that’s the football team, the city or the people.
Reading what your posting I find that hard to believe. You seem to have an agenda.

[hibsbollah]

Reading what your posting I find that hard to believe. You seem to have an agenda.

To be fair, the boy clearly wasn’t following the story as it developed and ended up arguing a case that didn’t stand up to scrutiny like it maybe did this morning. Sometimes it’s good to just say you were wrong, happens to us all.

[kaimendhibs]

To be fair, the boy clearly wasn’t following the story as it developed and ended up arguing a case that didn’t stand up to scrutiny like it maybe did this morning. Sometimes it’s good to just say you were wrong, happens to us all.Vociferous in condemnation of Liverpool fans. Wont entertain a counter argument.
Gone now it seems.
Good

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[heretoday]

How come there weren't any problems at the Madrid end? Are they just naturally better behaved and organised?
I do think that LFC should take more interest in the fans' welfare by warning them not to travel without valid tickets.

[Lago]

To be fair, the boy clearly wasn’t following the story as it developed and ended up arguing a case that didn’t stand up to scrutiny like it maybe did this morning. Sometimes it’s good to just say you were wrong, happens to us all.
Sometimes it's best to wait a little, and then look at the issue from more than one source, before making a judgement.

[hibsbollah]

How come there weren't any problems at the Madrid end? Are they just naturally better behaved and organised?
I do think that LFC should take more interest in the fans' welfare by warning them not to travel without valid tickets.

Because they weren’t funnelled into an area where there were no operational turnstiles and left there for over an hour penned in like the Liverpool fans were. Oddly enough, fans enter stadiums from opposite directions and therefore they have different routes to the stadium.

[hibsbollah]

Sometimes it's best to wait a little, and then look at the issue from more than one source, before making a judgement.

True. But I’ve done it myself.

[kaimendhibs]

How come there weren't any problems at the Madrid end? Are they just naturally better behaved and organised?
I do think that LFC should take more interest in the fans' welfare by warning them not to travel without valid tickets.Oh dear

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[SteveHFC]

https://youtu.be/86Bq4FzSSIE

[Paulie Walnuts]

Any chance of a pic of a forged ticket? Surely if so many were going around?

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https://twitter.com/bardengridge/status/1531370048073392129?s=21&t=zb3HzSFvULtgudJVFErG3g

[Paulie Walnuts]

Reading what your posting I find that hard to believe. You seem to have an agenda.

Ah well, don’t believe it then. :dunno:

If you look through my post history you’ll probably find I’ve never really mentioned Liverpool other than if they have a game on (and I’d be discussing the football) despite the fact I regularly contribute on the ‘other games’ thread.

Seeing as there’s plenty Liverpool and Man Utd back and forth on this site I’m sure I’d be heavily involved if I had an agenda against Liverpool.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ah well, don’t believe it then. :dunno:

If you look through my post history you’ll probably find I’ve never really mentioned Liverpool other than if they have a game on (and I’d be discussing the football) despite the fact I regularly contribute on the ‘other games’ thread.

Seeing as there’s plenty Liverpool and Man Utd back and forth on this site I’m sure I’d be heavily involved if I had an agenda against Liverpool.

Do you like man u?

Taking anything the French state as gospel is a bad move. They treat their fans and youth like dirt. Macrons police state are used to battering the yellow vests

[sahpaton]

How come there weren't any problems at the Madrid end? Are they just naturally better behaved and organised?
I do think that LFC should take more interest in the fans' welfare by warning them not to travel without valid tickets.

A lot of the same issues were experienced on the Real Madrid end as reported in both UK and Spanish media.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10869143/amp/PETE-JENSON-Spanish-fans-horror-dismal-policing-stolen-tickets-violent-attacks-thugs.html

https://www.20minutos.es/deportes/noticia/5007262/0/cronica-atracos-pesadilla-aficionados-real-madrid-liverpool-final-champions-league/


"Locals stealing tickets, phones, forcefully taking pics of QR codes, jumping the fences causing chaos"

This was a complete failure of event organisation and crowd control by UEFA and French authorities.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Do you like man u?

Taking anything the French state as gospel is a bad move. They treat their fans and youth like dirt. Macrons police state are used to battering the yellow vests

I don’t really care either way for any English team if I’m honest. Don’t mind watching them in Europe, rarely watch much EPL, don’t support any of them.

If I had to pick one it would be Arsenal because I liked Thierry Henry, Vieira and Highbury when I was younger.

[sahpaton]

Yes, I have read the reports - https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/30/liverpool-fans-caused-initial-problems-in-paris-says-french-sports-minister

Yes I have read peoples stories and I absolutely have sympathy for the fans who done nothing wrong and were treated appallingly by the police.

Yes I have watched the videos which clearly show fans who are not in the midst of a crush breaking through a barrier and running into the stadium and yes, they’re most definitely misbehaving while doing that.

Do you genuinely believe those French figures of 30-40k fake tickets? Seriously?

[norhfc]

Watching the scenes from outside the stadium reminded me of similar scenes (actually worse) from the Euro Final at Wembley. I wonder if this is a trend where fans turn up without tickets and hope to force their way in ?
Looks also like a lack of security from the French at the stadium and surrounding areas. I was there for the Scotland v Brazil game in 1998. St Denis is a no go area for tourists so surely this should have been addressed.

[Stairway 2 7]

Do you genuinely believe those French figures of 30-40k fake tickets? Seriously?

That's clearly a blatant and quite stupid lie. Not sure anyone would use a fake ticket seeing as they need to be scanned, it doesn't make sense. They already had that excuse early. As Andy Robertson said his mate was told his ticket is fake, only he got it from Andy

[brog]

I'm just surprised that after the media garbage that was written about 21/5/16 that anyone on here rushed to condemn fellow fans. As I said a few times on Saturday, let's wait and see.

[sahpaton]

That's clearly a blatant and quite stupid lie. Not sure anyone would use a fake ticket seeing as they need to be scanned, it doesn't make sense. They already had that excuse early. As Andy Robertson said his mate was told his ticket is fake, only he got it from Andy

There have also been numerous reports of genuine tickets failing to scan, resulting in Stewards having to manually operate the turnstiles. Just an utter shambles

[hibsbollah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61685718

It's becoming more and more obvious that there was organised large scale violence directed at Liverpool fans in Paris, probably similar in scale to the Russian mobs in Marseille. French govt and media falling over themselves to backtrack on earlier claims.

[Mcbizz1998]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61685718

It's becoming more and more obvious that there was organised large scale violence directed at Liverpool fans in Paris, probably similar in scale to the Russian mobs in Marseille. French govt and media falling over themselves to backtrack on earlier claims.

Yep. And tbh it’s pretty clear who these people were but it’s probably not PC to point it out.

France, Paris particularly, has a serious problem.

[Stairway 2 7]

As Thierry Herny said St deniz definitely isn't Paris. Its a ghetto created so Macron and his chums can have Paris. Cage people and treat them like animals and they will bite. The problem is created by Macron and le pen. But this is a tangent I suppose

[blackpoolhibs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61685718

It's becoming more and more obvious that there was organised large scale violence directed at Liverpool fans in Paris, probably similar in scale to the Russian mobs in Marseille. French govt and media falling over themselves to backtrack on earlier claims.

I think that blows a huge hole in some earlier posts.:faf:

[hibsbollah]

Yep. And tbh it’s pretty clear who these people were but it’s probably not PC to point it out.

France, Paris particularly, has a serious problem.

If you mean race, the racial demographic follows the demographic of the ghettos that exist.

It's the environment of hopelessness not the race or religion that's the decisive factor. Going into holy ground territory but violent street violence in France isn't confined to black or brown people. St Etienne fans for example.

[Mcbizz1998]

If you mean race, the racial demographic follows the demographic of the ghettos that exist.

It's the environment of hopelessness not the race or religion that's the decisive factor. Going into holy ground territory but violent street violence in France isn't confined to black or brown people. St Etienne fans for example.

I agree. But undoubtedly these people are all of the same race and possibly religion. As you say and Stairway has above, these have become ghetto’s. That’s the fault of the French government.

The acts of violence and criminality are the fault of the people who did it, despite the circumstances they find themselves in.

[hibsbollah]

Of course French police and politicians lied and smeared UK football fans. That’s what they do | Fabrice Arfi | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/06/french-police-politicians-lied-and-smeared-uk-football-fans-champions-league-final)

[MKHIBEE]

Of course French police and politicians lied and smeared UK football fans. That’s what they do | Fabrice Arfi | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/06/french-police-politicians-lied-and-smeared-uk-football-fans-champions-league-final)
Politicians and police lying and covering their own erchies. Sad and totally unacceptable but the French are not alone such wrongdoings

[hibsbollah]

Politicians and police lying and covering their own erchies. Sad and totally unacceptable but the French are not alone such wrongdoings

and an amazing forensic architecture investigation here, not linked to football but still interesting as to what the CRS can get away with.

The Killing Of Zineb Redouane ← Forensic Architecture (forensic-architecture.org) (https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/the-killing-of-zineb-redouane)

[hibsbollah]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64631335.amp

Possibly the most shocking thing wasn’t the failures, which were bad enough, but the post match ‘blame the ticketless fans’ narrative which echoed Hillsborough and which continued from fifa and the French govt days afterwards and echoed by the uk media too.