Part of the solution or part of the problem?

[matty_f]

Listening to the press conference with Ron Gordon and Lee Johnson, and in particular to Ron’s comments about the challenge/learn of fickle fans, and I can understand his frustration.

Since virtually the first day he arrived there has been a significant section of the support who have been happy to cast doubt on his intentions - “Ron the Con”, rumours of lending money to secure assets, house building and so on…

It must make things significantly harder when, on top of the mistakes that Ron and his team have undoubtedly made, to have to deal with the stuff that isn’t justified as well.

Do these fans know that they are effectively slowly the progress that could be made (notwithstanding the bigger issue of how bad the football has been for so long now)?

I think it’s really important that the support hold the owner to account and that we have a healthy cynicism to make sure that the club is safe but I think (and it’s just my view) that we now have a really destructive section of the support who go significantly beyond that.

The people who are all over the social media posts like a rash, the constant digs about big screens from people who (imho) undoubtedly understand the concept of them being an investment to support the first team, the “Ron the Con” label, shouting about going for cheap options whilst ignoring significant spend in the team, or holding the club to random over arbitrary demands like who is high profile enough a manager or signing etc.

I totally understand Gordon’s point. If you put yourself in his shoes and consider what he’s laid out that he’s trying to do - which is fundamentally to give us a successful team - the biggest barriers come from the people who should want that the most.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t criticise, of course they should where it’s warranted, and we absolutely should do what we can to keep Gordon and co honest, but there is a point where the digging in off heels and refusal to accept that there’s a solid plan in place to drive that success, is genuinely harming the progress of the club.

There are already people with the knives out for the manager - again arbitrary targets are applied - win his first few games/the derby/etc or he’ll be in trouble. That’s not supporting, not constructive, and not at all helpful.

This isn’t a “it’s the fans’ fault “ post and i’m certainly not going to pretend that the owner hasn’t made mistakes (some he’s admitted to, some not so much). I think we would get where we want to be quicker though if people properly got behind the club rather than creating narratives that fundamentally do harm.

[matty_f]

Also, too long, didn’t read.

[Onion]

This isn't a social media problem. RG's biggest issue is very real and nothing to do with name-calling or doubts over his intentions. Apathy has started to set in with many fans are voting with their feet. This has everything to do with Ron Gordon's performance as Owner, his poor management decisions which translates into awful football on the pitch.

RG getting frustrated means nothing, He now needs to rebuild trust, confidence and direction for the club. That's his job. No point in blaming or getting brassed off at the customers :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

This isn't a social media problem. RG's biggest issue is very real and nothing to do with name-calling or doubts over his intentions. Apathy has started to set in with many fans are voting with their feet. This has everything to do with Ron Gordon's performance as Owner, his poor management decisions which translates into awful football on the pitch.

RG getting frustrated means nothing, He now needs to rebuild trust, confidence and direction for the club. That's his job. No point in blaming or getting brassed off at the customers :rolleyes:

It’s neither all of one out all of the other, imho. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that there are folk in the support who have made Ron’s life harder than it needs to be since he arrived.

That opinion doesn’t absolve Ron of blame or responsibility, it simply acknowledges his point that his job has been made harder by some (and by no means all) supporters.

[Onion]

It’s neither all of one out all of the other, imho. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that there are folk in the support who have made Ron’s life harder than it needs to be since he arrived.

That opinion doesn’t absolve Ron of blame or responsibility, it simply acknowledges his point that his job has been made harder by some (and by no means all) supporters.

Agree, no question there is a section of fans who would like to see RG fail or admit that he made a huge error with JR sacking etc etc. Personally have zero sympathy for him or his hurt feelings when trying to make good business decisions. It's a tough world and tougher still in football.

If RG is even close to bleating about a section of fans' criticism, then maybe he's not suited to owning a club. Hibs is currently chock full of soft characters who wilt under the pressure, lack resolve, drive, determination and ambition. If that includes the owner, then we're ****ed. RG needs to lead from the front, ignore the noise and doubters and prove he's the right man to lead this club forward.

[bigwheel]

Agree, no question there is a section of fans who would like to see RG fail or admit that he made a huge error with JR sacking etc etc. Personally have zero sympathy for him or his hurt feelings when trying to make good business decisions. It's a tough world and tougher still in football.

If RG is even close to bleating about a section of fans' criticism, then maybe he's not suited to owning a club. Hibs is currently chock full of soft characters who wilt under the pressure, lack resolve, drive, determination and ambition. If that includes the owner, then we're ****ed. RG needs to lead from the front, ignore the noise and doubters and prove he's the right man to lead this club forward.

I’m with you on this..he sets the whole tone and engagement approach with supporters. His leadership comes over as controlling and he’s struggled with what the fans care about - a winning team on the park …he will need to be more resilient if he wants to get it right here.

There will always be fans who are cynical about an owners performance and intent. STF always had detractors too. I think RG has read the room wrong on a few important things and has not built trust in a way he could have . As a result it appears he is finding it harder than he expected, and likely less fun too. Honestly, i think if he could get his money back, he would sell tomorrow..I hope though he digs in a gets it right , for the club , us and him .

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Viewing things through the lens of social media can be a toughie. And I think it’s influence wider culture. Things feel more divisive. But in amongst the carnage of pile-ons and counter pile-ons achieving little (I recently read - thing it was from. Hibby on Twitter roughly “I have never been convinced to change my mind by another argument on Twitter”).

Yet somewhere in there are golden nuggets (or is it tagnuts?)

algorithms (Twitter will make there’s available after the Musk purchase) would appear to promote controversy. This perhaps feeds online content to skew towards this - even creating controversy for controversy’s sake. And was that Everton fan filming his goading in the hope for it to go viral (how mad and pathetic)

That’s not to dismiss valid concerns.

He has made mistakes - and somewhat refreshingly has admitted (did we see that in previous regimes. I can’t really recall). But I do think he was right to talk of the successes - unfortunately for him and us, in a COVID ravaged time who knows the difference having fans there could have made? It was an odd one to extend then sack Jack. Maloney I can only imagine that there was also word from behind the scenes that it was unlikely to turn around. I still feel he was given an impossible task.

let’s give Lee a chance.

[May21/05/216]

Listening to the press conference with Ron Gordon and Lee Johnson, and in particular to Ron’s comments about the challenge/learn of fickle fans, and I can understand his frustration.

Since virtually the first day he arrived there has been a significant section of the support who have been happy to cast doubt on his intentions - “Ron the Con”, rumours of lending money to secure assets, house building and so on…

It must make things significantly harder when, on top of the mistakes that Ron and his team have undoubtedly made, to have to deal with the stuff that isn’t justified as well.

Do these fans know that they are effectively slowly the progress that could be made (notwithstanding the bigger issue of how bad the football has been for so long now)?

I think it’s really important that the support hold the owner to account and that we have a healthy cynicism to make sure that the club is safe but I think (and it’s just my view) that we now have a really destructive section of the support who go significantly beyond that.

The people who are all over the social media posts like a rash, the constant digs about big screens from people who (imho) undoubtedly understand the concept of them being an investment to support the first team, the “Ron the Con” label, shouting about going for cheap options whilst ignoring significant spend in the team, or holding the club to random over arbitrary demands like who is high profile enough a manager or signing etc.

I totally understand Gordon’s point. If you put yourself in his shoes and consider what he’s laid out that he’s trying to do - which is fundamentally to give us a successful team - the biggest barriers come from the people who should want that the most.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t criticise, of course they should where it’s warranted, and we absolutely should do what we can to keep Gordon and co honest, but there is a point where the digging in off heels and refusal to accept that there’s a solid plan in place to drive that success, is genuinely harming the progress of the club.

There are already people with the knives out for the manager - again arbitrary targets are applied - win his first few games/the derby/etc or he’ll be in trouble. That’s not supporting, not constructive, and not at all helpful.

This isn’t a “it’s the fans’ fault “ post and i’m certainly not going to pretend that the owner hasn’t made mistakes (some he’s admitted to, some not so much). I think we would get where we want to be quicker though if people properly got behind the club rather than creating narratives that fundamentally do harm.I agree wholeheartedly with your post
But the doubters will keep posting negative comments
About Ron just like the ones that shouted about hsl is a ponzi scheme for the previous owner


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[hibee-boys]

I can’t recall disagreeing with much Ron Gordon has said in interviews. I actually think he’s refreshingly straight talking, prepared to put his hands up to admit where the club has fallen short of his expectations but defends his position when he thinks it appropriate, irrespective of putting some fans noses out of joint. I’ve no doubt whatsoever that he has the clubs best interests at heart and I’m happy that we’ve got this type of character running our club.

[cocteautwin]

Do Hibs fans refer to him as Ron the Con? I’ve only ever heard this from Hearts fans.

[erin go bragh]

Ron the con is pure Jamboness behaviour and not something that should ever be said by a Hibs fan( I’ve never heard any Hibs fan utter such nonsense)

[hibee1875]

Good post and I fully agree. There’s a right toxicity amongst our support that I don’t think will go away until one of

- he gives us his own money to make a marquee signing
- we win the Scottish cup, pumping hearts in the process
- he leaves

The Ron the con, pony up, employing is son chat for me will never go away. We just need to try and drown it out with actual support from the majority of others

[Libby Hibby]

Agree with all off the above.

Ron is trying. He might not get all things right but he’s trying.

He should appoint a stronger character, a more experienced leader than Ben Kensall to act as a buffer between him and the fans.

Can anyone tell me what BK is good at? Not a dig, just a question?

[cocteautwin]

Ron the con is pure Jamboness behaviour and not something that should ever be said by a Hibs fan( I’ve never heard any Hibs fan utter such nonsense)

The only time I hear him called Ron the con is from Jambos on message boards or from my Jambo mates when I point out to them that Budge has ploughed through £40m+ of Anderson and FoH cash . . . . but but but what about Ron the con, as if that’s an equivalent.

[Bostonhibby]

Agree with all off the above.

Ron is trying. He might not get all things right but he’s trying.

He should appoint a stronger character, a more experienced leader than Ben Kensall to act as a buffer between him and the fans.

Can anyone tell me what BK is good at? Not a dig, just a question?Been thinking about this a lot recently, reflecting on my recent disillusionment with the club. I think I'm in the same boat as you on this one now.

I think Johnson should be a massive upgrade on Maloney / Caldwell, but so is my couch.



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[Steve20]

Ron the Con is awful and no Hibs fan should use it. He's not conning anyone, he's just struggled so far to get to grips with the Football side of things. Some things he said about the past transfer window are worrying as it was not good and calling 'getting to semi finals' a success is concerning, as we should be aiming for more than that. I don't doubt he's trying, I just think he needs to learn that Football supporters are interested in the Football side of things. Other parts of the business might be doing well, but he can't expect praise for that if the Football on the pitch is as god awful as it's been.

I dispute the 'significant spend' part. We sold Boyle and brought in a loan player as his replacement. If what we've seen the past few transfer windows is what's coming up, then Ron Gordon should expect major criticism as it's been shambolic.

Fix the Football side Ron and there won't be a need for anyone to question you.

[Bostonhibby]

The only time I hear him called Ron the con is from Jambos on message boards or from my Jambo mates when I point out to them that Budge has ploughed through £40m+ of Anderson and FoH cash . . . . but but but what about Ron the con, as if that’s an equivalent.Do they ever mention their very own colossal creditors list and some of those charities and public bodies unlucky enough to have been on it?

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[JimBHibees]

I think we definitely have a very peculiar element of our support who actively try and undermine it for what reason I have no clue e.g ponzi with Hsl and previous cynical interpretations of Farmers intentions. Small but noisy would be how I would describe them. Their arguments only get traction when the team on the park are struggling especially when Hearts are doing better. I think Ron has been good for the club and to me has our best interests at heart however he has made mistakes imo no getting away from how poorly the football side became during the season two poor windows poor managerial appointment. His sons position should have been explained as they started on the defensive re that. The ultimate bottom line is that fix football side many of the moans go away however we really have become a very demanding fan base in general and not in a good way. The new manager is in the door and yet some seem determined to question every aspect of his career. He is imo a good fit for us and think he will do well if given a fair chance. Support the team and the club that is our role in this and what makes everything stronger.

[Since452]

I don't know if it's a social media thing but we seem to have some fans that absolutely hate the club. Crucifying the new manager before he's even in the door and criticising everything. I agreed with Ron when he said the most disappointing thing since he arrived were the fans. It wasn't nice to hear but its true. It's not even because of Ron's poor calls either. It was happening when Ross was here. Ron the con was definitely trotted out on here a few times early on.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ron the Con is awful and no Hibs fan should use it. He's not conning anyone, he's just struggled so far to get to grips with the Football side of things. Some things he said about the past transfer window are worrying as it was not good and calling 'getting to semi finals' a success is concerning, as we should be aiming for more than that. I don't doubt he's trying, I just think he needs to learn that Football supporters are interested in the Football side of things. Other parts of the business might be doing well, but he can't expect praise for that if the Football on the pitch is as god awful as it's been.

I dispute the 'significant spend' part. We sold Boyle and brought in a loan player as his replacement. If what we've seen the past few transfer windows is what's coming up, then Ron Gordon should expect major criticism as it's been shambolic.

Fix the Football side Ron and there won't be a need for anyone to question you.

Very good post. There is valid criticism which RG must accept as part of the job. He always talks a good game, but the outcomes on the pitch are not matching the rhetoric. It will take time for him to learn the intricacies of running a football club, and mistakes will happen, but fans are rightly worried about the current trajectory of the team. There are some fans who will never be satisfied, true, but most are just saying the team isn't what we hoped, given RG's stated aspirations. In fact, the team has badly regressed. We must see a big improvement next season.

[Golden Bear]

There will always be some supporters who for political, (or other reasons, ) simply don't like wealthy business men/women who have been successful in their careers.

Just my humble opinion of course.

[superfurryhibby]

Most of us are fairly simple creatures in respect of our demands from an owner. Deliver the goods on the pitch and we will turn up in numbers.

**** the fans off by appointing a rookie manager, selling your best player and not coming close to adequately replacing him, sign a raft of players not good enough for the first team, giving your son and your stooge vital roles at the club etc, etc Nft, blah, blah. We know where it takes us, right down the league table and into the fear zone.

Ron better toughen up and develop a thicker skin, because he will remain under scrutiny and the fans will continue to vote with their feet.

[Hibernia&Alba]

There will always be some supporters who for political, (or other reasons, ) simply don't like wealthy business men/women who have been successful in their careers.

Just my humble opinion of course.

It might be because, specifically, RG is a wealthy foreigner with no connection to Hibs. He also tried to buy a couple of other clubs beforehand. All football fans are very protective of their respective clubs, which is only natural. I think most don't mind, provided an owner respects the club and does a decent job. If RG delivers on his promises, he will be fine.

[hibee-boys]

Granted this league season has been a disaster but another cup semi and final? We don’t need to back that far in our past where that would’ve been a tremendous season. 3rd in the league last season with more great cup runs. Strip out the last 6 months in the league and I’d suggest that during Ron’s tenure we’ve had much to enjoy on the footballing side. Usual attention seeking bans on social media, and occasionally on here unfortunately, seem to take joy in knocking the club at the very first opportunity!

[WhileTheChief..]

Just watched the press conference again and I'm not sure what part the OP is referring to?

RG accepts that his biggest challenge since coming to the club is that they haven't got things right with the fans, that there will be bumps along the road and that sometimes fans are critical of what they're doing. He accepts that's the nature of the game and didn't seem worried at all by it.

There is absolutely zero suggestion that fans are somehow slowing the progress of the club.

If anything, the message I took from it was that RG understands they have more work to do to try and convince us that the cub are on the right track.

To suggest that Hibs fans are somehow a barrier to our own clubs' success is just weird.

[Golden Bear]

It might be because, specifically, RG is a wealthy foreigner with no connection to Hibs. He also tried to buy a couple of other clubs beforehand. All football fans are very protective of their respective clubs, which is only natural. I think most don't mind, provided an owner respects the club and does a decent job. If RG delivers on his promises, he will be fine.

I'd hope that this is the case but look at the abuse Sir Tom Farmer occasionally suffered despite what he did for the Club?

[WhileTheChief..]

Most of us are fairly simple creatures in respect of our demands from an owner. Deliver the goods on the pitch and we will turn up in numbers.

**** the fans off by appointing a rookie manager, selling your best player and not coming close to adequately replacing him, sign a raft of players not good enough for the first team, giving your son and your stooge vital roles at the club etc, etc Nft, blah, blah. We know where it takes us, right down the league table and into the fear zone.

Ron better toughen up and develop a thicker skin, because he will remain under scrutiny and the fans will continue to vote with their feet.

The OP has basically suggested that RG is weak and you've picked up on it here.

RG hasn't complained about the fans at all, it's only the OPs take on things.

This thread will end up being about RG complaining about us when he's done nothing of the sort!!!

[matty_f]

Ron the Con is awful and no Hibs fan should use it. He's not conning anyone, he's just struggled so far to get to grips with the Football side of things. Some things he said about the past transfer window are worrying as it was not good and calling 'getting to semi finals' a success is concerning, as we should be aiming for more than that. I don't doubt he's trying, I just think he needs to learn that Football supporters are interested in the Football side of things. Other parts of the business might be doing well, but he can't expect praise for that if the Football on the pitch is as god awful as it's been.

I dispute the 'significant spend' part. We sold Boyle and brought in a loan player as his replacement. If what we've seen the past few transfer windows is what's coming up, then Ron Gordon should expect major criticism as it's been shambolic.

Fix the Football side Ron and there won't be a need for anyone to question you.

With the spend - we shelled out significant (relative to us) fees for Mackay, Hauge, Melkersen, Nisbet, Magennis just off the top of my head.

That can’t be ignored. Also significant cost to hire Maloney and his backroom team and then replace them.

[matty_f]

The OP has basically suggested that RG is weak and you've picked up on it here.

RG hasn't complained about the fans at all, it's only the OPs take on things.

This thread will end up being about RG complaining about us when he's done nothing of the sort!!!

Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to infer that Gordon was weak at all, apologies if it’s come across like that.

[WhileTheChief..]

Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to infer that Gordon was weak at all, apologies if it’s come across like that.

It's cool, but I can see this growing arms and legs.

The worst RG had to say about us was that fans are fickle and there will always be naysayers. Can't really argue with that!

He seemed totally chilled when saying it though.

[blackpoolhibs]

It does not matter if it's here or all the social media sites there are, lots of noisy folk have no patience, if we dont win it is abuse for the players the management or the owner.

Nobody is allowed a bad spell, and good spells are downplayed because we never won anything, or the league was weak.

Now i'm as bad as anyone for being critical of the last windows strategy, i will never understand why we bought players yes bought players for an awfull lot of money, when they were not ready for the team now.

But that's gone, we have a new manager again, he needs backed, but i'm sure people will be on critical of him not winning big games, getting humped 6-0 by Bolton and just downplaying everything he's done in his carreer so far, because some folk are just ****in miserable and dont want to back the club and are more happy when slaughtering those involved and the team are losing.

They really dont know the harm they cause by their constant negativity.

[Jones28]

We had 25+ years with STF who saved the club from extinction, I think it’s only natural that people are skeptical of a new owner.

I would definitely say there’s been some unwarranted criticism, and Ron the Con might as well get you a hearts shirt if that’s your level of “banter”.

[brog]

There have been numerous occasions of posters on here using Ron the Con to describe our owner. I called someone out on it recently, I find it ludicrous. I also find it ludicrous that Hibs fans who (rightly) laugh at our neighbours for their failure to complete stadium upgrades then berate our owner for, em, successfully performng stadium upgrades!

[Dmas]

Listening to the press conference with Ron Gordon and Lee Johnson, and in particular to Ron’s comments about the challenge/learn of fickle fans, and I can understand his frustration.

Since virtually the first day he arrived there has been a significant section of the support who have been happy to cast doubt on his intentions - “Ron the Con”, rumours of lending money to secure assets, house building and so on…

It must make things significantly harder when, on top of the mistakes that Ron and his team have undoubtedly made, to have to deal with the stuff that isn’t justified as well.

Do these fans know that they are effectively slowly the progress that could be made (notwithstanding the bigger issue of how bad the football has been for so long now)?

I think it’s really important that the support hold the owner to account and that we have a healthy cynicism to make sure that the club is safe but I think (and it’s just my view) that we now have a really destructive section of the support who go significantly beyond that.

The people who are all over the social media posts like a rash, the constant digs about big screens from people who (imho) undoubtedly understand the concept of them being an investment to support the first team, the “Ron the Con” label, shouting about going for cheap options whilst ignoring significant spend in the team, or holding the club to random over arbitrary demands like who is high profile enough a manager or signing etc.

I totally understand Gordon’s point. If you put yourself in his shoes and consider what he’s laid out that he’s trying to do - which is fundamentally to give us a successful team - the biggest barriers come from the people who should want that the most.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t criticise, of course they should where it’s warranted, and we absolutely should do what we can to keep Gordon and co honest, but there is a point where the digging in off heels and refusal to accept that there’s a solid plan in place to drive that success, is genuinely harming the progress of the club.

There are already people with the knives out for the manager - again arbitrary targets are applied - win his first few games/the derby/etc or he’ll be in trouble. That’s not supporting, not constructive, and not at all helpful.

This isn’t a “it’s the fans’ fault “ post and i’m certainly not going to pretend that the owner hasn’t made mistakes (some he’s admitted to, some not so much). I think we would get where we want to be quicker though if people properly got behind the club rather than creating narratives that fundamentally do harm.

Totally agree I could write all day in reply to this each time I try it comes over in a rant type I can’t get to sound sentence like.

It’s exhausting, I actually think it’s worse now than when we went down under butcher fan wise, except this time I think it’s a section of fans driving the wedge rather than the petrie farmer combo of the past.

No patience unwilling to give anyone or anything a chance and can’t see the good in anything, if it was my money with no sentimental attachment to the club I’d be away

[chippy]

I’m with you on this..he sets the whole tone and engagement approach with supporters. His leadership comes over as controlling and he’s struggled with what the fans care about - a winning team on the park …he will need to be more resilient if he wants to get it right here.

There will always be fans who are cynical about an owners performance and intent. STF always had detractors too. I think RG has read the room wrong on a few important things and has not built trust in a way he could have . As a result it appears he is finding it harder than he expected, and likely less fun too. Honestly, i think if he could get his money back, he would sell tomorrow..I hope though he digs in a gets it right , for the club , us and him .

Is it just speculation you think he’d sell up if he could recoup his money , or do you know anything that suggests that. Not criticising just curious cos it’s what I think too

[Shrekko]

Having such fickle fans makes it impossible IMO to have any sustained success. There are too many who just aren’t prepared to ride out bad spells and when they disappear it must make everything so much more difficult for obvious reasons.

In the recent past we have had 17,000- 18,000 of our fans at games and I’d guess there was a lot less than half that for many of our games this season. That’s a scary differential and I can’t think of anywhere else this is the case, although no doubt people will claim otherwise. The level of moaning, leaving early and general toxicity is on another level and don’t get me started on the social media etc.

There can’t be many fan bases who have such high demands in terms of when they are prepared to turn up and support the team and I can see why any owner would be somewhat surprised at this. We often talk about what a “passionate” fan base we have but not sure the supposed passion is of the right kind.

[degenerated]

Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to infer that Gordon was weak at all, apologies if it’s come across like that.I'm not sure how that could be taken from your post?

I think you are bang on with that post, there is a tiresome and noisy element within our support that feel the need to have a go about every single thing the club do, and if the facts don't support their negativity they present their own alternative facts.

It's mind numbing, tedious and soul destroying having to wade through the utter attention seeking drivel on almost every thread these days.

[Dmas]

Is it just speculation you think he’d sell up if he could recoup his money , or do you know anything that suggests that. Not criticising just curious cos it’s what I think too

What makes you think that? Only a few weeks ago he said himself to Brian McLaughlin from bbc ‘if someone who has more drive and ambition to move the club forward than him wants to buy he’d sell however I doubt there’s anyone that meets that target’ it sounds pretty convincing to me that he sees himself here long term

[Bridge hibs]

I'm not sure how that could be taken from your post?

I think you are bang on with that post, there is a tiresome and noisy element within our support that feel the need to have a go about every single thing the club do, and if the facts don't support their negativity they present their own alternative facts.

It's mind numbing, tedious and soul destroying having to wade through the utter attention seeking drivel on almost every thread these days.Same, I couldnt see that in Mattys post either, I also agree with your post too, the constant negativity from the doom and gloom mongers is ****ing soul destroying at times

[Keith_M]

Sorry, I wasn’t meaning to infer that Gordon was weak at all, apologies if it’s come across like that.


You didn't, Matty.

I think anybody suggesting that has maybe misinterpreted your post, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Having such fickle fans makes it impossible IMO to have any sustained success. There are too many who just aren’t prepared to ride out bad spells and when they disappear it must make everything so much more difficult for obvious reasons.

In the recent past we have had 17,000- 18,000 of our fans at games and I’d guess there was a lot less than half that for many of our games this season. That’s a scary differential and I can’t think of anywhere else this is the case, although no doubt people will claim otherwise. The level of moaning, leaving early and general toxicity is on another level and don’t get me started on the social media etc.

There can’t be many fan bases who have such high demands in terms of when they are prepared to turn up and support the team and I can see why any owner would be somewhat surprised at this. We often talk about what a “passionate” fan base we have but not sure the supposed passion is of the right kind.

So maybe our fanbase is actually around the 10k mark? Anything on top of this should be seen as a bonus?

What’s becoming clear is that a lot of you on here want every Hibs fan to feel and act the same as yourselves.

Leaving early is an issue? That’s been going on as long as the game itself!

We’re all Hibs, but we’re all different.

[WhileTheChief..]

You didn't, Matty.

I think anybody suggesting that has maybe misinterpreted your post, so I wouldn't worry about it.

The post I quoted did exactly that.

[SlickShoes]

What makes you think that? Only a few weeks ago he said himself to Brian McLaughlin from bbc ‘if someone who has more drive and ambition to move the club forward than him wants to buy he’d sell however I doubt there’s anyone that meets that target’ it sounds pretty convincing to me that he sees himself here long term

As soon as he said that you knew people would spin as him wanting to sell up, even though it was clearly obvious he was using it to make a point of how dedicated he is to hibs.

[LeithMike]

I think original post is a bit one-sided. Its obvious from .net that our support is always polarised on a number of issues with some tending to lambast things and others prepared to defend them to the hilt. We still see that over Jack Ross.

For me, there are significant questions about the owners and the increasing erosion of fan involvement. The owners are stewards of the club and its not like a normal business that they can simply do as they please. American sport with its franchises (which owners can uproot and move) is very different to football here.

For me, the bigger danger, is our support giving the owners a free role to do as they please. Even when things are going well we should be looking to safeguard the future of the club. I really hope Hibernian Supporters can find a role to do this.

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[degenerated]

The post I quoted did exactly that.That was someone else's post you quoted

[WhileTheChief..]

You didn't, Matty.

I think anybody suggesting that has maybe misinterpreted your post, so I wouldn't worry about it.

What harm are Hibs fans causing for the club? That’s word for word what Matty said.

What have a I missed? I don’t do social media other than here so happy to accept I could be way off the mark.

[WhileTheChief..]

That was someone else's post you quoted

Yeah, that was my point. That folk would pick up Matty’s post and run with the line that RG is weak.

[Shrekko]

So maybe our fanbase is actually around the 10k mark? Anything on top of this should be seen as a bonus?

What’s becoming clear is that a lot of you on here want every Hibs fan to feel and act the same as yourselves.

Leaving early is an issue? That’s been going on as long as the game itself!

We’re all Hibs, but we’re all different.

Nah it’s entirely up to any fan what they want to do - if we are a club with such a small fan base though then we need to be a bit more realistic about the demands some people have.

That’s actually the point I’m making - if we were an Everton or Newcastle type fan base where the grounds generally packed regardless week on week, year on year, by all means we’re entitled to be going nuts about how bad we are, but that’s not the case.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Listening to the press conference with Ron Gordon and Lee Johnson, and in particular to Ron’s comments about the challenge/learn of fickle fans, and I can understand his frustration.

Since virtually the first day he arrived there has been a significant section of the support who have been happy to cast doubt on his intentions - “Ron the Con”, rumours of lending money to secure assets, house building and so on…

It must make things significantly harder when, on top of the mistakes that Ron and his team have undoubtedly made, to have to deal with the stuff that isn’t justified as well.

Do these fans know that they are effectively slowly the progress that could be made (notwithstanding the bigger issue of how bad the football has been for so long now)?

I think it’s really important that the support hold the owner to account and that we have a healthy cynicism to make sure that the club is safe but I think (and it’s just my view) that we now have a really destructive section of the support who go significantly beyond that.

The people who are all over the social media posts like a rash, the constant digs about big screens from people who (imho) undoubtedly understand the concept of them being an investment to support the first team, the “Ron the Con” label, shouting about going for cheap options whilst ignoring significant spend in the team, or holding the club to random over arbitrary demands like who is high profile enough a manager or signing etc.

I totally understand Gordon’s point. If you put yourself in his shoes and consider what he’s laid out that he’s trying to do - which is fundamentally to give us a successful team - the biggest barriers come from the people who should want that the most.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t criticise, of course they should where it’s warranted, and we absolutely should do what we can to keep Gordon and co honest, but there is a point where the digging in off heels and refusal to accept that there’s a solid plan in place to drive that success, is genuinely harming the progress of the club.

There are already people with the knives out for the manager - again arbitrary targets are applied - win his first few games/the derby/etc or he’ll be in trouble. That’s not supporting, not constructive, and not at all helpful.

This isn’t a “it’s the fans’ fault “ post and i’m certainly not going to pretend that the owner hasn’t made mistakes (some he’s admitted to, some not so much). I think we would get where we want to be quicker though if people properly got behind the club rather than creating narratives that fundamentally do harm.

The problem with social media is that you can’t get away from the pub slaver. There was always a guy in every pub that talked absolute p***, you just move to another table and never heard from him again. Now they have a multiple platforms that give their views equal weight with everyone else, makes it far more difficult to ignore.


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[wookie70]

I don't question his intensions and he certainly talks a good game. I just think he underestimated the task and has probably done well in what he has experience in(growing a business) but has made some poor decisions on what matters to fans(results and performances). With LD it felt like we were doing it together and the community was a huge part of the ethos. With Ron it feels like it is being done to me and it is all about pound notes, admittedly he thinks that will lead to success. Martin Boyle and John McGinn show home much success and money can be made from the football side. That is really where fans want us to make the best decisions and to grow our investments. Buying young players is part of that but we need to do it in a way they can be supported into the team with experienced players and not as steep a learning curve as Melkerson, Jasper etc had. I think Ron will get it right and the early years are all about him working out how to run a club.

[Mikey]

Do Hibs fans refer to him as Ron the Con? I’ve only ever heard this from Hearts fans.

One of the biggest roasters on here does it regularly.

[Mikey]

To suggest that Hibs fans are somehow a barrier to our own clubs' success is just weird.

No it's not. Look at the damage done to HSL when it launched.

[WhileTheChief..]

No it's not. Look at the damage done to HSL when it launched.

That’s a fair point but you’re going back a while and it’s not really relevant to the chat around RG?!

[Dmas]

So maybe our fanbase is actually around the 10k mark? Anything on top of this should be seen as a bonus?

What’s becoming clear is that a lot of you on here want every Hibs fan to feel and act the same as yourselves.

Leaving early is an issue? That’s been going on as long as the game itself!


We’re all Hibs, but we’re all different.

Don’t think that’s the case all, leaving early isn’t an issue, not going if you don’t want to isn’t an issue either but things like a company joining as the 21st sponsorship deal of the season isn’t a stick to beat the club with it’s necessary to make money, upgraded corporate facilities again an attempt to move the club forward not a stick to beat the club or owner with, a newspaper suggests someone outrageous for managers position isn’t a need to be sending season books back, it’s that OTT behaviour that people are tired of, not actual concerns like the snap decision to sack JR or hasty decision to appoint a rookie that’s all fair game and should be spoken about but not every last bit of effort the club makes.

How long we all thought big screens in the corners would look great at ER 5mins in the door and there slated as Ron’s vanity project ffs so tiring

[WhileTheChief..]

Don’t think that’s the case all, leaving early isn’t an issue, not going if you don’t want to isn’t an issue either but things like a company joining as the 21st sponsorship deal of the season isn’t a stick to beat the club with it’s necessary to make money, upgraded corporate facilities again an attempt to move the club forward not a stick to beat the club or owner with, a newspaper suggests someone outrageous for managers position isn’t a need to be sending season books back, it’s that OTT behaviour that people are tired of, not actual concerns like the snap decision to sack JR or hasty decision to appoint a rookie that’s all fair game and should be spoken about but not every last bit of effort the club makes.

How long we all thought big screens in the corners would look great at ER 5mins in the door and there slated as Ron’s vanity project ffs so tiring

Agree with all of this 👍

[McD]

Don’t think that’s the case all, leaving early isn’t an issue, not going if you don’t want to isn’t an issue either but things like a company joining as the 21st sponsorship deal of the season isn’t a stick to beat the club with it’s necessary to make money, upgraded corporate facilities again an attempt to move the club forward not a stick to beat the club or owner with, a newspaper suggests someone outrageous for managers position isn’t a need to be sending season books back, it’s that OTT behaviour that people are tired of, not actual concerns like the snap decision to sack JR or hasty decision to appoint a rookie that’s all fair game and should be spoken about but not every last bit of effort the club makes.

How long we all thought big screens in the corners would look great at ER 5mins in the door and there slated as Ron’s vanity project ffs so tiring


yep, for some, everything that happens is twisted to beat the club/owner over the head with

vanity project screens, scandalous prices for hospitality, how dare he have a bar that forms part of the hospitality offerings, the shrieking and indignation about BTG not reopening (I’m a bit bemused as to why there’s an expectation to provide a bar when we’re there to watch the team), particularly when it was open there were threads here most weeks complaining about it, manager is the cheap option (I’m sure there were cheaper ones, both after Ross and after Maloney), we’ve not spent money, we’ve spent money on the wrong players, Ron’s not visible/here enough, on and on and on

some of those are valid discussion points, but a lot of the time (not all) those bringing them up are doing so with zero intention of discussion, they just want to keep on having a go at the club

[Hibernia&Alba]

The problem with social media is that you can’t get away from the pub slaver. There was always a guy in every pub that talked absolute p***, you just move to another table and never heard from him again. Now they have a multiple platforms that give their views equal weight with everyone else, makes it far more difficult to ignore.


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Indeed. I don't do social media, not worth the hassle.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I've been sceptical of RG since I first met him. I told him to his face. But I'm a supporter of Hibs and certainly not fickle. I go to games no matter how we are playing or what is going on behind the scenes. I'm allowed to criticise when I think its deserved.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I've been sceptical of RG since I first met him. I told him to his face. But I'm a supporter of Hibs and certainly not fickle. I go to games no matter how we are playing or what is going on behind the scenes. I'm allowed to criticise when I think its deserved.

Of course you are. Think the point is around unwarranted noise about everything - look at the posts last week about the new manager - cancelling ST DDs and all sorts, hijacking every tweet the club make and generally being negative about everything.

[CapitalGreen]

I've been sceptical of RG since I first met him. I told him to his face. But I'm a supporter of Hibs and certainly not fickle. I go to games no matter how we are playing or what is going on behind the scenes. I'm allowed to criticise when I think its deserved.

Sceptical of his intentions or sceptical of his ability to achieve the goals he’s set for the club?

[Radium]

I am sure that the press conference exchange was with Chris MacLaughlan and included a line around Chris being the only one who could please everyone. Think that there was a similarly jaggy exchange when RG spoke to the press having sacked Maloney. That said RG was honest and I have no doubt he knows that unless the team is successful in the eyes of supporters criticism, fair or otherwise, will follow.

Fans have been happy or incandescent with staff changes, have seen the hospitality revamp as good business or somehow offensive to the wider support, expect to invest millions in the squad but want cheap tickets. Not sure we are that different to other supports in this range of opinion, the difference is that we are a big enough story for the MacLaughlins and Phil Gordons to spin the negative story for clicks.

Jack Ross was sacked and Maloney was the wrong replacement. RG is not unique in getting an appointment wrong and the fan criticism is fair. The reaction by some to Johnson’s appointment has been poor: prejudged is the wrong word because for some it has simply been an excuse to lay into the owner. That’s where I think that RGs comments came from.

Another factor is that most of us can share our views when we are at maximum peeve, ultimate rage or in complete meltdown …

… have even heard the occasional podcaster go into ‘on reflection’ mode.


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[CentreLine]

Ron the con is pure Jamboness behaviour and not something that should ever be said by a Hibs fan( I’ve never heard any Hibs fan utter such nonsense)
It was all over these threads in the early days of his take over. But only from two or three posters, who may have other things to do with their time today than troll Hibs supporters on here. At least before 5pm anyway.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Of course you are. Think the point is around unwarranted noise about everything - look at the posts last week about the new manager - cancelling ST DDs and all sorts, hijacking every tweet the club make and generally being negative about everything.


I hear you. I feel sorry for LJ as some fans wanted JDT and as you say those cancelling tickets etc are not helpful. But the point of RG saying the fans are fickle is labelling us all, which is incorrect. Some fans yes, not all

[Baldy Foghorn]

Sceptical of his intentions or sceptical of his ability to achieve the goals he’s set for the club?

I was sceptical of his intentions and what he said when I first met him, and with other exchanges I've had with him. I don't think he will get the amount of ST holders he wanted and spoke about. That might come if things drastically improve on the pitch though.

[LeithMike]

I've been sceptical of RG since I first met him. I told him to his face. But I'm a supporter of Hibs and certainly not fickle. I go to games no matter how we are playing or what is going on behind the scenes. I'm allowed to criticise when I think its deserved.That sounds a fairly healthy view to be fair.

The counter point to the original post is that anyone who does criticise Hibs can also get subjected to vitriolic abuse equally as bad. If Brian McLaughlin or the BBC asks a difficult question of the owner or criticises the running of Hibs then the abuse on here of the pundits is probably worse than anything the owner gets.

Just shows you that green-tinted specs work both ways. Reason and balance often posted missing.

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[Nitten]

I don't know if it's a social media thing but we seem to have some fans that absolutely hate the club. Crucifying the new manager before he's even in the door and criticising everything. I agreed with Ron when he said the most disappointing thing since he arrived were the fans. It wasn't nice to hear but its true. It's not even because of Ron's poor calls either. It was happening when Ross was here. Ron the con was definitely trotted out on here a few times early on.

Couldn’t agree more with comment regarding a section of our support that actively rubbish the club and are so quick to disparage anything our club hierarchy undertake. There seems to be an element of entitlement rife with the Old Firm that is hard to understand. With the resources available to us we are realistically 5th in the pecking order and have punched above our weight in recent seasons. Ron Gordon imho has done a magnificent job in moving the club forward commercially and in improving the stadium and infrastructure. The man has been big enough to admit his possible mistake with Jack Ross and who hasn’t made mistakes in their life? I for one am more than happy to have Ron on board and in thinking of some of the chancers who previously ran our club… Waugh, Gray et al we have an owner commuted to winning and raising the standards across the whole club. Simple solution to those not happy …. Fek Off and let supporters actually support the club, not snipe and moan consistently.

[blackpoolhibs]

Couldn’t agree more with comment regarding a section of our support that actively rubbish the club and are so quick to disparage anything our club hierarchy undertake. There seems to be an element of entitlement rife with the Old Firm that is hard to understand. With the resources available to us we are realistically 5th in the pecking order and have punched above our weight in recent seasons. Ron Gordon imho has done a magnificent job in moving the club forward commercially and in improving the stadium and infrastructure. The man has been big enough to admit his possible mistake with Jack Ross and who hasn’t made mistakes in their life? I for one am more than happy to have Ron on board and in thinking of some of the chancers who previously ran our club… Waugh, Gray et al we have an owner commuted to winning and raising the standards across the whole club. Simple solution to those not happy …. Fek Off and let supporters actually support the club, not snipe and moan consistently.

Well said. :top marks

[marinello59]

That can’t be ignored. Also significant cost to hire Maloney and his backroom team and then replace them.

I reckon the decision to appoint Maloney in the first place hurt the club much more than any whinging fans. Throw in the costly mistake that was Mueller and the failure to recruit an experienced striker and that error was compounded.
There were normally supportive fans calling out RG’s regime for that and it will take success on the pitch rather then words to right those wrongs. Given the financial backing of our club during covid by thousands of good Hibernian fans I have to admit I feel pretty depressed seeing threads blaming the fans at all. Yes, there is a corrosive element,a very small one which Twitter etc endows with a disproportionately loud voice. There always has been, always will be and RG just needs to accept that is part and parcel of the Scottish game.
The majority of criticism here is fairly balanced, long may healthy questioning continue.

[Pretty Boy]

Ron Gordon needs the fans onside because ultimately if there is to be long term sustained improvement, the fans are going to be the ones who pay for it.

If there was a way to radically improve commercial revenue without calling on the fans to dig deep then someone else would have figured it out by now. Partnerships and sponsorship deals are nice but at our level, STs sold, hospitality paid for and fans through the gate are still the golden ticket. Hearts huge revenue advantage isn't built on anything that's a secret, it's fans ploughing in hundreds of thousands a month. A wealthy benefactor willing to do similar helps too of course. The decision by RG and the board to close the door on a group handing over tens of thousands a month and with the potential to do more was somewhat odd.

I don't think Gordon is up to anything dodgy. I understand the need to improve our offering in a number of areas. Ultimately though the fans will only fully buy in when the product on the park is right and it's not been and I still don't believe the structure is in place for it to be. For all I mentioned Hearts revenue advantage above, until they got an experienced Sporting Director in, it didn't count for much. I think the last couple of years has been a steep learning curve for RG and I understand his frustration. He needs to find a way to work round the fickle and cynical nature of football fans though, we aren't trained seals who applaud on demand and criticism ranging from the measured and justifiable to the venemous and nonsensical is a feature of any football club. A quick glance at an Aberdeen forum suggests Dave Cormack gets if far tighter from a far bigger section of the fanbase than Gordon ever has.

Hibs fans dug deep during covid to do their bit, both in terms of ST sales and increased donations to HSL. ST sales for the season just past were very good at a time when there was still no guarantee we would see many, if any, games. This is the first relatively widespread crisis of confidence RG has faced among the fan base with sluggish ST sales and a questioning of his stewardship. He needs to negotiate that and get people onside. Good signings who are ready to go and winning football games will see all the other stuff fade into the background. Fail to do that and improved hospitality and more commercial partnerships (required and welcome though they are) won't cut it as mitigation.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I reckon the decision to appoint Maloney in the first place hurt the club much more than any whinging fans. Throw in the costly mistake that was Mueller and the failure to recruit an experienced striker and that error was compounded.
There were normally supportive fans calling out RG’s regime for that and it will take success on the pitch rather then words to right those wrongs. Given the financial backing of our club during covid by thousands of good Hibernian fans I have to admit I feel pretty depressed seeing threads blaming the fans at all. Yes, there is a corrosive element,a very small one which Twitter etc endows with a disproportionately loud voice. There always has been, always will be and RG just needs to accept that is part and parcel of the Scottish game.
The majority of criticism here is fairly balanced, long may healthy questioning continue.

Spot on J

[Baldy Foghorn]

Ron Gordon needs the fans onside because ultimately if there is to be long term sustained improvement, the fans are going to be the ones who pay for it.

If there was a way to radically improve commercial revenue without calling on the fans to dig deep then someone else would have figured it out by now. Partnerships and sponsorship deals are nice but at our level, STs sold, hospitality paid for and fans through the gate are still the golden ticket. Hearts huge revenue advantage isn't built on anything that's a secret, it's fans ploughing in hundreds of thousands a month. A wealthy benefactor willing to do similar helps too of course. The decision by RG and the board to close the door on a group handing over tens of thousands a month and with the potential to do more was somewhat odd.

I don't think Gordon is up to anything dodgy. I understand the need to improve our offering in a number of areas. Ultimately though the fans will only fully buy in when the product on the park is right and it's not been and I still don't believe the structure is in place for it to be. For all I mentioned Hearts revenue advantage above, until they got an experienced Sporting Director in, it didn't count for much. I think the last couple of years has been a steep learning curve for RG and I understand his frustration. He needs to find a way to work round the fickle and cynical nature of football fans though, we aren't trained seals who applaud on demand and criticism ranging from the measured and justifiable to the venemous and nonsensical is a feature of any football club. A quick glance at an Aberdeen forum suggests Dave Cormack gets if far tighter from a far bigger section of the fanbase than Gordon ever has.

Hibs fans dug deep during covid to do their bit, both in terms of ST sales and increased donations to HSL. ST sales for the season just past were very good at a time when there was still no guarantee we would see many, if any, games. This is the first relatively widespread crisis of confidence RG has faced among the fan base with sluggish ST sales and a questioning of his stewardship. He needs to negotiate that and get people onside. Good signings who are ready to go and winning football games will see all the other stuff fade into the background. Fail to do that and improved hospitality and more commercial partnerships (required and welcome though they are) won't cut it as mitigation.

Another well balanced post

[Frazerbob]

Also, too long, didn’t read.

That’s a shame, agree or not, you missed a very decent post.

[WhileTheChief..]

I reckon the decision to appoint Maloney in the first place hurt the club much more than any whinging fans. Throw in the costly mistake that was Mueller and the failure to recruit an experienced striker and that error was compounded.
There were normally supportive fans calling out RG’s regime for that and it will take success on the pitch rather then words to right those wrongs. Given the financial backing of our club during covid by thousands of good Hibernian fans I have to admit I feel pretty depressed seeing threads blaming the fans at all. Yes, there is a corrosive element,a very small one which Twitter etc endows with a disproportionately loud voice. There always has been, always will be and RG just needs to accept that is part and parcel of the Scottish game.
The majority of criticism here is fairly balanced, long may healthy questioning continue.

:top marks

[Sir David Gray]

I reckon the decision to appoint Maloney in the first place hurt the club much more than any whinging fans. Throw in the costly mistake that was Mueller and the failure to recruit an experienced striker and that error was compounded.
There were normally supportive fans calling out RG’s regime for that and it will take success on the pitch rather then words to right those wrongs. Given the financial backing of our club during covid by thousands of good Hibernian fans I have to admit I feel pretty depressed seeing threads blaming the fans at all. Yes, there is a corrosive element,a very small one which Twitter etc endows with a disproportionately loud voice. There always has been, always will be and RG just needs to accept that is part and parcel of the Scottish game.
The majority of criticism here is fairly balanced, long may healthy questioning continue.

:top marks Totally agree with all of this, the bit in bold in particular.

[CentreLine]

Couldn’t agree more with comment regarding a section of our support that actively rubbish the club and are so quick to disparage anything our club hierarchy undertake. There seems to be an element of entitlement rife with the Old Firm that is hard to understand. With the resources available to us we are realistically 5th in the pecking order and have punched above our weight in recent seasons. Ron Gordon imho has done a magnificent job in moving the club forward commercially and in improving the stadium and infrastructure. The man has been big enough to admit his possible mistake with Jack Ross and who hasn’t made mistakes in their life? I for one am more than happy to have Ron on board and in thinking of some of the chancers who previously ran our club… Waugh, Gray et al we have an owner commuted to winning and raising the standards across the whole club. Simple solution to those not happy …. Fek Off and let supporters actually support the club, not snipe and moan consistently.

More than anything, it’s that toxic attitude from fans towards the club, it’s players and towards supporters around them, that has left me cold. I do think there is a section within the fanbase that do not support Hibs but have attached themselves to a convenient institution in order to have the opportunity to abuse people and have something to the. It’s almost as if they are seeking relevance for themselves in a world devoid of tolerance or acceptance. I just don’t get it.

[CapitalGreen]

I think too much emphasis is placed on Sporting Directors at clubs of our size. We have an academy director and our CEOs deal with negotiations. An experienced chief scout/head of recruitment is really what is required.

We had a sporting director up until last autumn which didn’t prevent us from having 3 years of awful recruitment. We claimed to have some over-arching philosophy/identity (Hibs DNA) which helped guide recruitment that never actually existed in reality. Had such a thing existed we would never have appointed Hecky and unlikely to have appointed a pragmatic manager such as Ross.

Hearts periods of good performance over the last decade are more closely linked to having Robbie Nielsen as manager IMO rather than anything else. Joe Savage could have sourced the same players but without a manager who knows what he’s doing would they still look like astute signings?

[matty_f]

I reckon the decision to appoint Maloney in the first place hurt the club much more than any whinging fans. Throw in the costly mistake that was Mueller and the failure to recruit an experienced striker and that error was compounded.
There were normally supportive fans calling out RG’s regime for that and it will take success on the pitch rather then words to right those wrongs. Given the financial backing of our club during covid by thousands of good Hibernian fans I have to admit I feel pretty depressed seeing threads blaming the fans at all. Yes, there is a corrosive element,a very small one which Twitter etc endows with a disproportionately loud voice. There always has been, always will be and RG just needs to accept that is part and parcel of the Scottish game.
The majority of criticism here is fairly balanced, long may healthy questioning continue.
Does balance not extend to acknowledging that some fans have a negative impact?
Gordon himself acknowledged his responsibility for the costly mistakes that have been made, I don’t think you’ll find anyone here that would disagree that the blame for that lies with him.

[jacomo]

This isn't a social media problem. RG's biggest issue is very real and nothing to do with name-calling or doubts over his intentions. Apathy has started to set in with many fans are voting with their feet. This has everything to do with Ron Gordon's performance as Owner, his poor management decisions which translates into awful football on the pitch.

RG getting frustrated means nothing, He now needs to rebuild trust, confidence and direction for the club. That's his job. No point in blaming or getting brassed off at the customers :rolleyes:


Social media is absolutely an issue tho.

Too many people think we all need to hear their opinions, despite them being ill-informed garbage.

Social media has given them a platform to reach a global audience.

[matty_f]

I've been sceptical of RG since I first met him. I told him to his face. But I'm a supporter of Hibs and certainly not fickle. I go to games no matter how we are playing or what is going on behind the scenes. I'm allowed to criticise when I think its deserved.

Everyone’s allowed to criticise, I don’t think anyone had said otherwise, and a healthy scepticism is essential for a support so that we keep the owner honest.

it’s the section of the support who go on the attack on everything that the does - mention on the thread already have been criticisms of the commercial side improving, hospitality improvements, the big screens - even though these things are all key to the strategy of getting a better team on the pitch.

Those aren’t fair criticisms, imho. That’s just an unnecessary and unjustified stick to beat the club and owner with.

Saying he’s wasted money on signing or managers is justified, those decisions have slowed our progress as well.

[PaulSmith]

Listening to the press conference with Ron Gordon and Lee Johnson, and in particular to Ron’s comments about the challenge/learn of fickle fans, and I can understand his frustration.

Since virtually the first day he arrived there has been a significant section of the support who have been happy to cast doubt on his intentions - “Ron the Con”, rumours of lending money to secure assets, house building and so on…

It must make things significantly harder when, on top of the mistakes that Ron and his team have undoubtedly made, to have to deal with the stuff that isn’t justified as well.

Do these fans know that they are effectively slowly the progress that could be made (notwithstanding the bigger issue of how bad the football has been for so long now)?

I think it’s really important that the support hold the owner to account and that we have a healthy cynicism to make sure that the club is safe but I think (and it’s just my view) that we now have a really destructive section of the support who go significantly beyond that.

The people who are all over the social media posts like a rash, the constant digs about big screens from people who (imho) undoubtedly understand the concept of them being an investment to support the first team, the “Ron the Con” label, shouting about going for cheap options whilst ignoring significant spend in the team, or holding the club to random over arbitrary demands like who is high profile enough a manager or signing etc.

I totally understand Gordon’s point. If you put yourself in his shoes and consider what he’s laid out that he’s trying to do - which is fundamentally to give us a successful team - the biggest barriers come from the people who should want that the most.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t criticise, of course they should where it’s warranted, and we absolutely should do what we can to keep Gordon and co honest, but there is a point where the digging in off heels and refusal to accept that there’s a solid plan in place to drive that success, is genuinely harming the progress of the club.

There are already people with the knives out for the manager - again arbitrary targets are applied - win his first few games/the derby/etc or he’ll be in trouble. That’s not supporting, not constructive, and not at all helpful.

This isn’t a “it’s the fans’ fault “ post and i’m certainly not going to pretend that the owner hasn’t made mistakes (some he’s admitted to, some not so much). I think we would get where we want to be quicker though if people properly got behind the club rather than creating narratives that fundamentally do harm.

Greta post mate.

Ron could be the most genuine thing to happen to Hibs for 30 years and has certainly put more money into the club than any individual for a long, long time.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Everyone’s allowed to criticise, I don’t think anyone had said otherwise, and a healthy scepticism is essential for a support so that we keep the owner honest.

it’s the section of the support who go on the attack on everything that the does - mention on the thread already have been criticisms of the commercial side improving, hospitality improvements, the big screens - even though these things are all key to the strategy of getting a better team on the pitch.

Those aren’t fair criticisms, imho. That’s just an unnecessary and unjustified stick to beat the club and owner with.

Saying he’s wasted money on signing or managers is justified, those decisions have slowed our progress as well.

On the flip side we are spending millions on screens and fancy bars (£3.5m c) with a fraction of maybe 1/5th (£700k) of that spent on squad. Has to be balancing act, first and foremost the team is the most important part of the Club. That is why he is gaining negativity from some quarters

[CapitalGreen]

On the flip side we are spending millions on screens and fancy bars (£3.5m c) with a fraction of maybe 1/5th (£700k) of that spent on squad. Has to be balancing act, first and foremost the team is the most important part of the Club. That is why he is gaining negativity from some quarters

Are you sure about that £3.5m figure?

The value of the work is listed as £350k on the planning portal website

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/scottishBuildingWarrantDetails.do?activeTab=detail s&keyVal=RA0EAYEWHZX00

So if we spent £700k on players it’s actually double the amount spent in the fit out.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Are you sure about that £3.5m figure?

Bars were at least £1.8m. Screens North of a £1m. £3m at least

[CapitalGreen]

Bars were at least £1.8m. Screens North of a £1m. £3m at least

Your numbers are way off, see the edit to my post.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Your numbers are way off, see the edit to my post.

The figure was quoted by the Club

[Hibbyradge]

Fans are fickle.

RG was answering a loaded question.

[CapitalGreen]

The figure was quoted by the Club

Where was it quoted by the club? I’ve been at each of the presentations to corporate season ticket holders for the new hospitality plans back to first one just before lockdown in 2020 with LD & RG - £3.5m and a those sorts of individual figures were never mentioned.

[matty_f]

On the flip side we are spending millions on screens and fancy bars (£3.5m c) with a fraction of maybe 1/5th (£700k) of that spent on squad. Has to be balancing act, first and foremost the team is the most important part of the Club. That is why he is gaining negativity from some quarters

The reason for that spend though is that it’ll be recouped and more in order to put a better team on the park. It’s not the amount of money that has been spent on the park that is the issue, it’s how it’s been spent.

Spending on the team is a lot more speculative than spending on things that will generate revenue.

[degenerated]

The figure was quoted by the ClubWhere was it quoted?

[bigwheel]

The reason for that spend though is that it’ll be recouped and more in order to put a better team on the park. It’s not the amount of money that has been spent on the park that is the issue, it’s how it’s been spent.

Spending on the team is a lot more speculative than spending on things that will generate revenue.

That’s true. And also why RG is coming under most scrutiny . The footballing decisions look as poor as they’ve done for years . Sacking Ross impatiently without involving the board or having a decent replacement plan . Two poor transfer windows in. Row , where overall we’ve become less than we were before …

I’m trusting him that commercial foundations are improving. Tbh. They seemed to be very weak before so good on him . But we are a football club - he will always be judged on the performance on the pitch . In that area, he has arguably unravelled the good stuff that was in place and now questions are rightly raised . He obviously has had a hard time from the board (hence why he praised their support and involvement in the recent announcements ) I’m hoping LJ is a choice that gets backed and gets us back up in the mix again … Then we can enjoy the fruits of commercial grown and have a decent team …then we can get back to moaning about stadium food , rather than a poor team !

[Dmas]

That’s true. And also why RG is coming under most scrutiny . The footballing decisions look as poor as they’ve done for years . Sacking Ross impatiently without involving the board or having a decent replacement plan . Two poor transfer windows in. Row , where overall we’ve become less than we were before …

I’m trusting him that commercial foundations are improving. Tbh. They seemed to be very weak before so good on him . But we are a football club - he will always be judged on the performance on the pitch . In that area, he has arguably unravelled the good stuff that was in place and now questions are rightly raised . He obviously has had a hard time from the board (hence why he praised their support and involvement in the recent announcements ) I’m hoping LJ is a choice that gets backed and gets us back up in the mix again … Then we can enjoy the fruits of commercial grown and have a decent team …then we can get back to moaning about stadium food , rather than a poor team !

Part of the problem is it’s easy to pass him the blame of unraveling the good work but it’s also just as easy to ignore his involvement in the building of that good work, without RG we lose Boyle for the 500k min fee clause if not before that’s inserted and he’s gone for free, 200k on Nisbet, new deal for doig, Mathie and Ross backed to build the team that finished 3rd, I think he was pretty let down the summer going into Europe by Mathie it seemed to go frosty fast before he was gone and I think that played a part in his maybe too hasty firing of JR, it was more of a panic that it unravelled so quickly and everything was a rush to save the season rather than a well thought out plan

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just 15 minutes before making this post I went through a Hibby I'm friends with on facebook for posting about 'Ron the con' and comparing him to Romanov ... there actually are Hibs fans coming out with this embarrassing pish on social media.

So far as the fans go it's our right to bitch and moan about the club when it isn't doing well, its what fans do. But there has to be a limit to that stuff and unless you can provide concrete evidence, accusing the owner of being part of a 'con' and comparing him to a guy who was nothing less than a crook is unacceptable.

What Ron Gordon has to accept is that fans will blame him if things don't go well, it's what happens to every owner and you have to suck it up if you want to own a football club, it is never a good idea to suggest they are part of the problem, even in the mildest terms and even if there is a modicum of truth in it, not even if that opinion is shared by some of their fellow fans ..... fans can slag other fans ... owners can't.

I have no problems with fans slagging the club or the owner over on field failures, so long as it's not like the rubbish about cons and stuff. I have no problem with folk slagging the players during the game. I have no real problem with folk who leave games early either, though it's not something I do. The fans who really damage this club ( any club ) are the ones who choose to withdraw their vocal backing from the stands and money from it's budget for no other reason than the style of football pisses them off or the club isn't winning enough to suit them.

[bigwheel]

Part of the problem is it’s easy to pass him the blame of unraveling the good work but it’s also just as easy to ignore his involvement in the building of that good work, without RG we lose Boyle for the 500k min fee clause if not before that’s inserted and he’s gone for free, 200k on Nisbet, new deal for doig, Mathie and Ross backed to build the team that finished 3rd, I think he was pretty let down the summer going into Europe by Mathie it seemed to go frosty fast before he was gone and I think that played a part in his maybe too hasty firing of JR, it was more of a panic that it unravelled so quickly and everything was a rush to save the season rather than a well thought out plan

Some good points there , again underlining some his good commercial decisions …Mathie clearly lost his way …not sure what happened there . There is no maybe about the Ross decision . It was a shocker ..made worse by being his call ..the board only found out via email ..could have been managed if he had a replacement planned, but he didn’t . So it was all about emotion that decision . And the resultant rookie appointment and second poor window in a row cemented those bad decisions .

We are a football club. Most of us will judge them through performances on the pitch , and whilst there is no separating that from a healthy commercial side, it’s the football ill health that is causing the pain in RGs side just now - and rightly so - get that right , and he can plan whatever match day entertainment that takes his fancy …

[Bridge hibs]

Just 15 minutes before making this post I went through a Hibby I'm friends with on facebook for posting about 'Ron the con' and comparing him to Romanov ... there actually are Hibs fans coming out with this embarrassing pish on social media.

So far as the fans go it's our right to bitch and moan about the club when it isn't doing well, its what fans do. But there has to be a limit to that stuff and unless you can provide concrete evidence, accusing the owner of being part of a 'con' and comparing him to a guy who was nothing less than a crook is unacceptable.

What Ron Gordon has to accept is that fans will blame him if things don't go well, it's what happens to every owner and you have to suck it up if you want to own a football club, it is never a good idea to suggest they are part of the problem, even in the mildest terms and even if there is a modicum of truth in it, not even if that opinion is shared by some of their fellow fans ..... fans can slag other fans ... owners can't.

I have no problems with fans slagging the club or the owner over on field failures, so long as it's not like the rubbish about cons and stuff. I have no problem with folk slagging the players during the game. I have no real problem with folk who leave games early either, though it's not something I do. The fans who really damage this club ( any club ) are the ones who choose to withdraw their vocal backing from the stands and money from it's budget for no other reason than the style of football pisses them off or the club isn't winning enough to suit them.Hibs fans news facebook, the black hole of Calcutta, utter cesspit of all thats wrong with social media platforms, cant believe we share the same ****ing club 🤣🤣 I dont do facebook or twitter but my Sister sends me the occasional boak fest from the hibs sites

[matty_f]

That’s true. And also why RG is coming under most scrutiny . The footballing decisions look as poor as they’ve done for years . Sacking Ross impatiently without involving the board or having a decent replacement plan . Two poor transfer windows in. Row , where overall we’ve become less than we were before …

I’m trusting him that commercial foundations are improving. Tbh. They seemed to be very weak before so good on him . But we are a football club - he will always be judged on the performance on the pitch . In that area, he has arguably unravelled the good stuff that was in place and now questions are rightly raised . He obviously has had a hard time from the board (hence why he praised their support and involvement in the recent announcements ) I’m hoping LJ is a choice that gets backed and gets us back up in the mix again … Then we can enjoy the fruits of commercial grown and have a decent team …then we can get back to moaning about stadium food , rather than a poor team !

I agree with most of that, though on the football front, under Ron’s watch we’ve been to at least each semi final that we’ve competed in in the cup competitions, and under Ross we had a third place finish - but that was still not good enough for folk. People are talking about Hearts being well ahead of us, they’ve just had the season we had last year but folk didn’t want to give their own team credit for it and the manager got chased when results went south

This season was a shambles, but there was mitigation for it.

There are some big concerns about Ron’s judgement on who’s doing what at the club, but it’s early days for a lot of the staff that have come in and they probably need to be given time to show what they bring to the table.

[CapitalGreen]

That’s true. And also why RG is coming under most scrutiny . The footballing decisions look as poor as they’ve done for years . Sacking Ross impatiently without involving the board or having a decent replacement plan . Two poor transfer windows in. Row , where overall we’ve become less than we were before …

I’m trusting him that commercial foundations are improving. Tbh. They seemed to be very weak before so good on him . But we are a football club - he will always be judged on the performance on the pitch . In that area, he has arguably unravelled the good stuff that was in place and now questions are rightly raised . He obviously has had a hard time from the board (hence why he praised their support and involvement in the recent announcements ) I’m hoping LJ is a choice that gets backed and gets us back up in the mix again … Then we can enjoy the fruits of commercial grown and have a decent team …then we can get back to moaning about stadium food , rather than a poor team !

I’ve seen a lot of similar posts to these that say RG has undone a lot of the good work built up prior to his arrival but in reality this was unravelling well before he arrived. People compare back to how high the club was riding in the summer of 2018 but when RG took ownership in Summer 2019, the squad and corporate side of the club wasn’t in such a great place.

In the 12 months before RG took ownership:

- We lost McGinn, McGeouch and Allan and replaced them with Milligan, Mallan and Hyndmann in Summer 2018 transfer window. The Winter 2019 transfer window we brought in a load of players on short term deals, 6 of whom made a combined 14 appearances for the club.

- On the managerial front we sacked Lennon in very messy circumstances, the circumstances meant the club weren’t even able to adequately explain to the fans why he’d be sacked. We then replaced him with Heckingbottom after we messed up with our first choice.

- On the corporate side of things we failed to secure a shirt sponsor for the first time in nearly 3 decades. How much of the McGinn transfer fee was squandered by failing to secure a shirt sponsor for 2 years? Some of the hospitality spaces at the club were allowed to fall into such disrepair that they are now out of use.

RG has undoubtedly made bad decisions on the football side of the club, namely appointing Maloney and not having an experienced head involved in player recruitment. However both player and managerial recruitment were already poor prior to his ownership, hopefully he has learnt from these costly mistakes as we move forward. Certainly it would be hard to argue that time and effort hasn’t been put into getting the latest managerial appointment right even if he wasn’t your preferred choice.

[bigwheel]

I agree with most of that, though on the football front, under Ron’s watch we’ve been to at least each semi final that we’ve competed in in the cup competitions, and under Ross we had a third place finish - but that was still not good enough for folk. People are talking about Hearts being well ahead of us, they’ve just had the season we had last year but folk didn’t want to give their own team credit for it and the manager got chased when results went south

This season was a shambles, but there was mitigation for it.

There are some big concerns about Ron’s judgement on who’s doing what at the club, but it’s early days for a lot of the staff that have come in and they probably need to be given time to show what they bring to the table.

It’s the JR stuff (for me ) that he unravelled …still can’t Comprehend it - well I can - it’s was about him , rather than rationale thought .

Hearts have a stable structure in place . And with Anderson, FoH and European money , they have great income levels heading their way this season . Their transfer window will be key - get that right , they will be hard to catch over the season - but I guess people may have been saying some of that about us last year …

I think he is learning that his focus on “excellence “ is fine for those things he can control , but he needs to recruit well and trust the footballing side to others. It took Petrie and Co years to work that out ..l’m going to assume he’s learning that he needs to trust some of the people around him more than he did in the past with this investment …

[bigwheel]

I’ve seen a lot of similar posts to these that say RG has undone a lot of the good work built up prior to his arrival but in reality this was unravelling well before he arrived. People compare back to how high the club was riding in the summer of 2018 but when RG took ownership in Summer 2019, the squad and corporate side of the club wasn’t in such a great place.

In the 12 months before RG took ownership:

- We lost McGinn, McGeouch and Allan and replaced them with Milligan, Mallan and Hyndmann in Summer 2018 transfer window. The Winter 2019 transfer window we brought in a load of players on short term deals, 6 of whom made a combined 14 appearances for the club.

- On the managerial front we sacked Lennon in very messy circumstances, the circumstances meant the club weren’t even able to adequately explain to the fans why he’d be sacked. We then replaced him with Heckingbottom after we messed up with our first choice.

- On the corporate side of things we failed to secure a shirt sponsor for the first time in nearly 3 decades. How much of the McGinn transfer fee was squandered by failing to secure a shirt sponsor for 2 years? Some of the hospitality spaces at the club were allowed to fall into such disrepair that they are now out of use.

RG has undoubtedly made bad decisions on the football side of the club, namely appointing Maloney and not having an experienced head involved in player recruitment. However both player and managerial recruitment were already poor prior to his ownership, hopefully he has learnt from these costly mistakes as we move forward. Certainly it would be hard to argue that time and effort hasn’t been put into getting the latest managerial appointment right even if he wasn’t your preferred choice.

The player recruitment and management was good enough to secure third , get into every semi final and some cup finals and also to get into Europe. It wasn’t as bad as you suggest imo. The big RG decisions destabilised those decent foundations that had been rebuilt , and then moved it backward with poor recruitment at management and player level ..

Tbh, those are the key reasons he is being held to account just now ..the rest of the stuff looks better than it was..he is driving revenue up, and despite some peoples misgivings , that is key for us to sustain and prosper .

Get the football stuff right and we will get back to moaning about cold water in the toilets again …

[Jay]

I think a Chairman who calls the fans fickle,
naysayers and dismisses questions with you can't please 100% of them maybe leaves himself open to criticism.

When asked what was the most disappointing thing about the last 12 months it wasn't poor performances, sacking 2 managers or finishing bottom six , it was that the support was disappointing and challenging despite progress and ambition .

What progress?

Strange way to treat your paying customers

[cameronw-hfc]

I don't know if it's a social media thing but we seem to have some fans that absolutely hate the club. Crucifying the new manager before he's even in the door and criticising everything. I agreed with Ron when he said the most disappointing thing since he arrived were the fans. It wasn't nice to hear but its true. It's not even because of Ron's poor calls either. It was happening when Ross was here. Ron the con was definitely trotted out on here a few times early on.


I've said that before as well. We've got an element of our fans that are desperate for us to fail so they can say "I told you so". Always had them, social media seems to be making their voice louder though.

I remember seeing Ron the Con stuff within a few weeks of him buying the club, some fans just won't be happy regardless.

[brog]

It’s the JR stuff (for me ) that he unravelled …still can’t Comprehend it - well I can - it’s was about him , rather than rationale thought .

Hearts have a stable structure in place . And with Anderson, FoH and European money , they have great income levels heading their way this season . Their transfer window will be key - get that right , they will be hard to catch over the season - but I guess people may have been saying some of that about us last year …

I think he is learning that his focus on “excellence “ is fine for those things he can control , but he needs to recruit well and trust the footballing side to others. It took Petrie and Co years to work that out ..l’m going to assume he’s learning that he needs to trust some of the people around him more than he did in the past with this investment …

You say Hearts have a stable structure in place. I'm not sure that's true. Take away Anderson's donations over last few years and they would have made major losses. Those losses would have seriously impacted on their ability to perform at a high level. The European money coming in means they've got away with it this season but they need to do that consistently to avoid more losses.

[bigwheel]

You say Hearts have a stable structure in place. I'm not sure that's true. Take away Anderson's donations over last few years and they would have made major losses. Those losses would have seriously impacted on their ability to perform at a high level. The European money coming in means they've got away with it this season but they need to do that consistently to avoid more losses.

Anderson’s money isn’t going away ..he’s in for the long haul and the FoH money gives them circa 1.5M a year extra revenue ….their income to cost ratio is bette than ours already …they are in good financial shape and the euro money this year will trounce our income levels …that is a strong foundation if you ask me ..

[Lancs Harp]

Anderson’s money isn’t going away ..he’s in for the long haul and the FoH money gives them circa 1.5M a year extra revenue ….their income to cost ratio is bette than ours already …they are in good financial shape and the euro money this year will trounce our income levels …that is a strong foundation if you ask me ..

You have to invest and spend it wisely though and they havent got a great track record on that score.

[matty_f]

I think a Chairman who calls the fans fickle,
naysayers and dismisses questions with you can't please 100% of them maybe leaves himself open to criticism.

When asked what was the most disappointing thing about the last 12 months it wasn't poor performances, sacking 2 managers or finishing bottom six , it was that the support was disappointing and challenging despite progress and ambition .

What progress?

Strange way to treat your paying customers

AFAIK, he wasn’t asked what the most disappointing thing was, it was what he’d learned. Puts a totally different context on the answer.

[bigwheel]

You have to invest and spend it wisely though and they havent got a great track record on that score.

Yep, they’ve wasted so much money over recent years that’s true. They got it much more right in the last 18 months…let’s hope they return to form next season !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

Anderson’s money isn’t going away ..he’s in for the long haul and the FoH money gives them circa 1.5M a year extra revenue ….their income to cost ratio is bette than ours already …they are in good financial shape and the euro money this year will trounce our income levels …that is a strong foundation if you ask me ..The HSL money might have been a lot more if there hadn't been folk shouting about it being a Ponzi scheme.

[degenerated]

It’s the JR stuff (for me ) that he unravelled …still can’t Comprehend it - well I can - it’s was about him , rather than rationale thought .

Hearts have a stable structure in place . And with Anderson, FoH and European money , they have great income levels heading their way this season . Their transfer window will be key - get that right , they will be hard to catch over the season - but I guess people may have been saying some of that about us last year …

I think he is learning that his focus on “excellence “ is fine for those things he can control , but he needs to recruit well and trust the footballing side to others. It took Petrie and Co years to work that out ..l’m going to assume he’s learning that he needs to trust some of the people around him more than he did in the past with this investment …A large element of the support wanted Jack Ross sacked as well

[Jay]

AFAIK, he wasn’t asked what the most disappointing thing was, it was what he’d learned. Puts a totally different context on the answer.

Your correct in that he was asked what he'd learned, I apologise for picking that up wrong but it's still an incredibly disappointing answer . As a business alone I'd expect them to thank us for still backing them financially and leave the criticism at the door.

Add his continued line of not liking the word Persevered doesn't really make me think he's embracing us or even gets us. He should be using it to his advantage instead of putting it down.

[bigwheel]

The HSL money might have been a lot more if there hadn't been folk shouting about it being a Ponzi scheme.

The biggest detractor now is how RG has cut the relationship between HSL and a route to representation on the Hibs Board….that ponzi scheme nonsense has long since largely disappeared…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bigwheel]

A large element of the support wanted Jack Ross sacked as well

Not sure how large it was…but regardless , to sack him , and To do it without having a decent replacement plan hurt us badly.

It also unsettled the board, as they saw RG act on his own, without engaging the board, in such a big decision…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

The biggest detractor now is how RG has cut the relationship between HSL and a route to representation on the Hibs Board….that ponzi scheme nonsense has long since largely disappeared…


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkThe point is though, the HSL was hindered when it was declared a Ponzi scheme to line Petrie and Farmers pockets. Perhaps if it was generating a more worthwhile amount then Ron Gordon would have been more interested in embracing it.

[degenerated]

Not sure how large it was…but regardless , to sack him , and To do it without having a decent replacement plan hurt us badly.

It also unsettled the board, as they saw RG act on his own, without engaging the board, in such a big decision…


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkHow do you know it unsettled the board ?

[bigwheel]

The point is though, the HSL was hindered when it was declared a Ponzi scheme to line Petrie and Farmers pockets. Perhaps if it was generating a more worthwhile amount then Ron Gordon would have been more interested in embracing it.

he wants to ensure he has full shareholder control….would have been problematic for him if it had secured 25 percent equity or more already…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bigwheel]

How do you know it unsettled the board ?

Well I’m not just making it up, so go figure….I’m glad to say he learned the lesson though and it’s not happened since….a good sign of learning I’d say….


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

he wants to ensure he has full shareholder control….would have been problematic for him if it had secured 25 percent equity or more already…


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkYou seem to be missing the thrust of my point, regardless of Ron Gordon the HSL was negatively impacted because a number of supporters went on a crusade to portray it as a Ponzi scheme.

[bigwheel]

You seem to be missing the thrust of my point, regardless of Ron Gordon the HSL was negatively impacted because a number of supporters went on a crusade to portray it as a Ponzi scheme.

I heard that the first time you posted it…..and yes it’s true….but it is not the factor affecting it now….and RG was happy they had not secured a seat on the board through their share ownership. .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[The Harp Awakes]

I've said that before as well. We've got an element of our fans that are desperate for us to fail so they can say "I told you so". Always had them, social media seems to be making their voice louder though.

I remember seeing Ron the Con stuff within a few weeks of him buying the club, some fans just won't be happy regardless.

I don't disagree with your general point, but I think you paint an exaggerated, bleak picture about Hibs fans wanting Hibs to fail.

Social media is viscous generally. I can't believe some of the offensive stuff people post on any subject, not just football. Even on this message board, if you post an opinion about something, you can get absolute dogs abuse from others who disagree with it.

On the Ron Gordon situation, I've never had a concern that he bought Hibs for alterior motives. I think he genuinely wants the best for the Club and I do think he is right that to be successful on the pitch, you need to grow the club commercially. He should be commended for what he has achieved commercially.

However, any business or football club is only as good as the quality of people within it. Ron/his team have made some very bad footballing recruitment decisions over the last year or so and for me, that is why he is getting the flak presently. It is beginning to look like he does not know what he's doing in a football sense, and fans are reacting to that.

I only want the best for Hibs and will continue to back the club financially and get behind the new Manager. I am however very concerned about Ron's ability to recruit the correct people to take the club forward on the pitch. The timing of the JR sacking was crazy, the appointment of Maloney was questionable and I remain to be convinced that he has made the correct managerial appointment this time around.

[Alfred E Newman]

A large element of the support wanted Jack Ross sacked as well

There was an element but I'm not convinced it was large.

[matty_f]

There was an element but I'm not convinced it was large.

Polls on here and twitter suggested it was about 50/50 for sack/keep so it was a decent chunk.

[Silky]

Polls on here and twitter suggested it was about 50/50 for sack/keep so it was a decent chunk.

I seem to remember a "decent chunk" of our support endorsing the appointment of Butcher.

[jacomo]

The reason for that spend though is that it’ll be recouped and more in order to put a better team on the park. It’s not the amount of money that has been spent on the park that is the issue, it’s how it’s been spent.

Spending on the team is a lot more speculative than spending on things that will generate revenue.


:agree:

As a club we’ve spent big on players and management teams. It’s just that results have disappointed.

Mistakes have been made but we’ve definitely spent money.

[CentreLine]

Polls on here and twitter suggested it was about 50/50 for sack/keep so it was a decent chunk.

Poll on here in February 2021 had over 500 voters, of whom over all 63.5%voted for JR to stay.

Poll immediately after he was sacked had about 150 voters, of whom over 53.5% said it was wrong to have sacked him. This second pole was certainly closer to your figures but was a much smaller pole and after he was gone.

[Pretty Boy]

Regardless of what the fans wanted if RG wanted Ross to stay then he would have still been here. It's his ball as they say.

I still maintain the writing was on the wall for Ross when he publicly voiced his anger about recruitment after the European exit. The fact his sacking was so sudden, let's be honest no one really saw it coming, suggests there was an element of waiting for an excuse.

If RG has bowed to the will of 30, 40 or 50% of the fanbase rather than persisting with something he truly believes in then it suggests he's weak. I doubt that anyone who has been successful in the corporate world is inherently weak, which makes me believe Ross was sacked because Gordon and those around him wanted him sacked.

[CapitalGreen]

Pole on here in February 2021 had over 500 voters, of whom over all 63.5%voted for JR to stay.

Pole immediately after he was sacked had about 150 voters, of whom over 53.5% said it was wrong to have sacked him. This second pole was certainly closer to your figures but was a much smaller pole and after he was gone.

Hibs.net polls aren’t necessary representative of the Hibs support as a whole, they can only be close to representative of the Hibs support who like talking about Hibs on the internet. By that I don’t mean that the figure for Ross out was higher or lower in reality, I’m just urging caution in thinking what you read on here is representative of the whole fan base.

[Mikey]

I thought we might have heard from some of the more persistent critics of the club on this thread by now. It would be good to hear their reasoning.

[matty_f]

I seem to remember a "decent chunk" of our support endorsing the appointment of Butcher.

there was. i was one of them, regrettably.

[matty_f]

Hibs.net polls aren’t necessary representative of the Hibs support as a whole, they can only be close to representative of the Hibs support who like talking about Hibs on the internet. By that I don’t mean that the figure for Ross out was higher or lower in reality, I’m just urging caution in thinking what you read on here is representative of the whole fan base.

I think they’ll be statistically representative. I’m sure there would be an actuary or statistician who could tell us how many would need to respond to give a confident view that the poll was representative, but the number would be much lower than you think.

[matty_f]

Regardless of what the fans wanted if RG wanted Ross to stay then he would have still been here. It's his ball as they say.

I still maintain the writing was on the wall for Ross when he publicly voiced his anger about recruitment after the European exit. The fact his sacking was so sudden, let's be honest no one really saw it coming, suggests there was an element of waiting for an excuse.

If RG has bowed to the will of 30, 40 or 50% of the fanbase rather than persisting with something he truly believes in then it suggests he's weak. I doubt that anyone who has been successful in the corporate world is inherently weak, which makes me believe Ross was sacked because Gordon and those around him wanted him sacked.

Or he was strong to go against the will of the majority of the fanbase, which is a tougher thing to do. Doing the unpopular thing is harder to do than the popular thing if you’re looking to keep people happy.

More likely he saw the results and performances were poor and showing little sign of improving so he acted. In hindsight i think it was the wrong decision but at the time I can completely understand why it was made.

[superfurryhibby]

Regardless of what the fans wanted if RG wanted Ross to stay then he would have still been here. It's his ball as they say.

I still maintain the writing was on the wall for Ross when he publicly voiced his anger about recruitment after the European exit. The fact his sacking was so sudden, let's be honest no one really saw it coming, suggests there was an element of waiting for an excuse.

If RG has bowed to the will of 30, 40 or 50% of the fanbase rather than persisting with something he truly believes in then it suggests he's weak. I doubt that anyone who has been successful in the corporate world is inherently weak, which makes me believe Ross was sacked because Gordon and those around him wanted him sacked.

I don’t think Ross’s sacking was so unpredictable, but you’re spot on with the other points. The idea that Gordon in any way bowed to fan pressure is laughable.

Ross was unhappy with recruitment, and rightly so. Our recruitment team ****ed it up big time and we ended up with Nathan Wood and James Scott instead of players who would have made a difference.

I watched the interview and find Gordon’s reference to fickle fans etc to be a bit of a cop out. WTF does he expect after the debacle of last season, a round of applause?

[oneone73]

I think they’ll be statistically representative. I’m sure there would be an actuary or statistician who could tell us how many would need to respond to give a confident view that the poll was representative, but the number would be much lower than you think.
I think it would be skewed demographically. I would imagine the age profile on here is higher than the Hibs support as a whole.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don’t think Ross’s sacking was so unpredictable, but you’re spot on with the other points. The idea that Gordon in any way bowed to fan pressure is laughable.

Ross was unhappy with recruitment, and rightly so. Our recruitment team ****ed it up big time and we ended up with Nathan Wood and James Scott instead of players who would have made a difference.

I watched the interview and find Gordon’s reference to fickle fans etc to be a bit of a cop out. WTF does he expect after the debacle of last season, a round of applause?

Fans are fickle, have you not noticed?

A bit of patience, and supporters to support the team, not slaughter every one of them whenever they lose.

You know, we cant win every week, in fact we dont win every week, but when we do hit certain targets, it's deemed as nothing much, but a poor run of games and a bad season is horrendous?

[Mike Berry]

Regardless of what the fans wanted if RG wanted Ross to stay then he would have still been here. It's his ball as they say.

I still maintain the writing was on the wall for Ross when he publicly voiced his anger about recruitment after the European exit. The fact his sacking was so sudden, let's be honest no one really saw it coming, suggests there was an element of waiting for an excuse.

If RG has bowed to the will of 30, 40 or 50% of the fanbase rather than persisting with something he truly believes in then it suggests he's weak. I doubt that anyone who has been successful in the corporate world is inherently weak, which makes me believe Ross was sacked because Gordon and those around him wanted him sacked.

I agree with all of this. I don't doubt that Ross has his flaws and made mistakes, but last summwr's window was shockin awful. Ross was not backed by the club. They got it wrong, Mathie was made the scapegoat (I don't think he was the culprit) and when the brown stuff hit the fan a few weeks into the season, Ross was probably saying 'I told you this would happen' in private. Says a lot for him that he took the blame publicly. Although, when he was sacked, he made a comment to the effect that there were "certain individuals that he didn't like.

[B.H.F.C]

Having such fickle fans makes it impossible IMO to have any sustained success. There are too many who just aren’t prepared to ride out bad spells and when they disappear it must make everything so much more difficult for obvious reasons.

In the recent past we have had 17,000- 18,000 of our fans at games and I’d guess there was a lot less than half that for many of our games this season. That’s a scary differential and I can’t think of anywhere else this is the case, although no doubt people will claim otherwise. The level of moaning, leaving early and general toxicity is on another level and don’t get me started on the social media etc.

There can’t be many fan bases who have such high demands in terms of when they are prepared to turn up and support the team and I can see why any owner would be somewhat surprised at this. We often talk about what a “passionate” fan base we have but not sure the supposed passion is of the right kind.

Hibs supporters are no different to any other fan base.

When it’s good to watch more folk go. When it‘a not so good, less folk go.

You only need to go back a few years to see Celtic having whole sections of their stadium shut off. Ibrox starts emptying after 75 minute most weeks so they can get in the queue for the underground. Hearts fans flew a plane of let the stadium when they were third in the league. Celtic fans chased their players down the street when they lost a cup tie, having won the 12 trophies available to them.

[superfurryhibby]

Fans are fickle, have you not noticed?

A bit of patience, and supporters to support the team, not slaughter every one of them whenever they lose.

You know, we cant win every week, in fact we dont win every week, but when we do hit certain targets, it's deemed as nothing much, but a poor run of games and a bad season is horrendous?

Whether I’ve noticed or not is irrelevant, it’s Ron that gave the interview and he owns the club. As I said, what else can he expect after such a dismal league campaign and poor leadership from those in charge?

Just a thought, but maybe if he had adequately backed Ross in the transfer window last summer then we fickle fans wouldn’t have become so critical of the way the club was being managed. A reality check for Ron, although I guess he’s really not that naive.

[blackpoolhibs]

Whether I’ve noticed or not is irrelevant, it’s Ron that gave the interview and he owns the club. As I said, what else can he expect after such a dismal league campaign and poor leadership from those in charge?

Just a thought, but maybe if he had adequately backed Ross in the transfer window last summer then we fickle fans wouldn’t have become so critical of the way the club was being managed. A reality check for Ron, although I guess he’s really not that naive.

I agree, he should have backed Ross better last summer, he left him hanging out to dry by not doing so, and by sacking him, he passed the blame onto Ross and his staff, giving him players he actually wanted to sign would have helped him, helped the club and helped the fans get behind the club making them less fickle.

The main point i feel that everyone is missing, is we are supposed to be Hibs supporters, when a large amount of folk who say they support Hibs, dont support Hibs, they do their utmost to scream and shout against the club, moaning at everything the club does.

In fact there are threads on here and other social media platforms, where folk actually cant wait to tell us why they are not attending games. :rolleyes:

Thats not supporting the club/team in my book.

[CentreLine]

Hibs.net polls aren’t necessary representative of the Hibs support as a whole, they can only be close to representative of the Hibs support who like talking about Hibs on the internet. By that I don’t mean that the figure for Ross out was higher or lower in reality, I’m just urging caution in thinking what you read on here is representative of the whole fan base.

Totally agree. The post I answered was suggesting polls on here showed around 50/50 fir him to go.
These were the ones I could find on here and why I refer to them. Polls are always likely to be misleading but that wasn’t the point of the post.

[WestStandMoaner]

Whether I’ve noticed or not is irrelevant, it’s Ron that gave the interview and he owns the club. As I said, what else can he expect after such a dismal league campaign and poor leadership from those in charge?

Just a thought, but maybe if he had adequately backed Ross in the transfer window last summer then we fickle fans wouldn’t have become so critical of the way the club was being managed. A reality check for Ron, although I guess he’s really not that naive.

:top marks

[CapitalGreen]

I think they’ll be statistically representative. I’m sure there would be an actuary or statistician who could tell us how many would need to respond to give a confident view that the poll was representative, but the number would be much lower than you think.

As oneone73 pointed out, it’s not the number of people participating in the poll that would make it unrepresentative it is the type of person. If you sampled 500 Hibs.net users would they provide a reasonable representation of the Hibs support - I don’t think so. There would be nobody aged under 13 represented for one, very few women etc. Ultimately, you’re probably sampling the opinion of a predominantly male cohort, probably aged 30-50 and who spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet talking about Hibs.

[CapitalGreen]

Totally agree. The post I answered was suggesting polls on here showed around 50/50 fir him to go.
These were the ones I could find on here and why I refer to them. Polls are always likely to be misleading but that wasn’t the point of the post.

👍

[matty_f]

I agree, he should have backed Ross better last summer, he left him hanging out to dry by not doing so, and by sacking him, he passed the blame onto Ross and his staff, giving him players he actually wanted to sign would have helped him, helped the club and helped the fans get behind the club making them less fickle.

The main point i feel that everyone is missing, is we are supposed to be Hibs supporters, when a large amount of folk who say they support Hibs, dont support Hibs, they do their utmost to scream and shout against the club, moaning at everything the club does.

In fact there are threads on here and other social media platforms, where folk actually cant wait to tell us why they are not attending games. :rolleyes:

Thats not supporting the club/team in my book.

That’s it. There’s plenty we do that deserved criticism, the football has been brutal and ultimately the buck stops with Ron for that, but the club gets stuck and stuff made up or twisted to suit folk taking pops.

[A Hi-Bee]

Totally agree. The post I answered was suggesting polls on here showed around 50/50 fir him to go.
These were the ones I could find on here and why I refer to them. Polls are always likely to be misleading but that wasn’t the point of the post.

Do we really imagine that a bunch o slavers, such as we are on the internet, is representative of the Hibs support in general, in any poll taken on here or on the internet. I certainly hope not, and to suggest otherwise is a wee bit deluded.
Just my humble opinion.
:greengrin

[superfurryhibby]

Do we really imagine that a bunch o slavers, such as we are on the internet, is representative of the Hibs support in general, in any poll taken on here or on the internet. I certainly hope not, and to suggest otherwise is a wee bit deluded.
Just my humble opinion.
:greengrin

Hibs net is like a model of moderation compared to the responses you see to the club on the likes of Twitter or Facebook. A poll on here with 500 plus respondents is as representative as we’re going to get. Although fans express their views in other ways too, as season ticket sales will verify.

[LustForLeith]

Listening to the press conference with Ron Gordon and Lee Johnson, and in particular to Ron’s comments about the challenge/learn of fickle fans, and I can understand his frustration.

Since virtually the first day he arrived there has been a significant section of the support who have been happy to cast doubt on his intentions - “Ron the Con”, rumours of lending money to secure assets, house building and so on…

It must make things significantly harder when, on top of the mistakes that Ron and his team have undoubtedly made, to have to deal with the stuff that isn’t justified as well.

Do these fans know that they are effectively slowly the progress that could be made (notwithstanding the bigger issue of how bad the football has been for so long now)?

I think it’s really important that the support hold the owner to account and that we have a healthy cynicism to make sure that the club is safe but I think (and it’s just my view) that we now have a really destructive section of the support who go significantly beyond that.

The people who are all over the social media posts like a rash, the constant digs about big screens from people who (imho) undoubtedly understand the concept of them being an investment to support the first team, the “Ron the Con” label, shouting about going for cheap options whilst ignoring significant spend in the team, or holding the club to random over arbitrary demands like who is high profile enough a manager or signing etc.

I totally understand Gordon’s point. If you put yourself in his shoes and consider what he’s laid out that he’s trying to do - which is fundamentally to give us a successful team - the biggest barriers come from the people who should want that the most.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t criticise, of course they should where it’s warranted, and we absolutely should do what we can to keep Gordon and co honest, but there is a point where the digging in off heels and refusal to accept that there’s a solid plan in place to drive that success, is genuinely harming the progress of the club.

There are already people with the knives out for the manager - again arbitrary targets are applied - win his first few games/the derby/etc or he’ll be in trouble. That’s not supporting, not constructive, and not at all helpful.

This isn’t a “it’s the fans’ fault “ post and i’m certainly not going to pretend that the owner hasn’t made mistakes (some he’s admitted to, some not so much). I think we would get where we want to be quicker though if people properly got behind the club rather than creating narratives that fundamentally do harm.

I completely agree with you. Twitter, on here, just in general. A lot of Hibs fans aren’t happy unless they’re unhappy about Hibs

[Hibbyradge]

I don’t think Ross’s sacking was so unpredictable, but you’re spot on with the other points. The idea that Gordon in any way bowed to fan pressure is laughable.

Ross was unhappy with recruitment, and rightly so. Our recruitment team ****ed it up big time and we ended up with Nathan Wood and James Scott instead of players who would have made a difference.

I watched the interview and find Gordon’s reference to fickle fans etc to be a bit of a cop out. WTF does he expect after the debacle of last season, a round of applause?

He mentioned the fickleness of the fans in response to a comment that they would have preferred a different manager to be appointed. He wasn't copping out of anything

He also said that the fans weren't in the interview room so didn't have the same information on which to base their preference.

[chippy]

At least Ron has fronted up and taken the flak. Also leading on the Deloitte review which is out next month apparently

[superfurryhibby]

He mentioned the fickleness of the fans in response to a comment that they would have preferred a different manager to be appointed. He wasn't copping out of anything

He also said that the fans weren't in the interview room so didn't have the same information on which to base their preference.

Yes, he did. He also spoke about his biggest challenge and disappointment being the criticism from fans, despite all the positives associated with the club, although he recognised fans right to an opinion. The copping out was not acknowledging that fans were rightly critical of the shambolic football decisions made by the clubs executive management. That’s why I said WTF does he expect.

I’m not too fussed about what he said really, but at the same time, he’s deluded if he thinks fans won’t be expressing their disappointment at the way things went last season.

However, I look forward to Ron backing our new boss and seeing what our new manager can achieve, if he’s given the funds to bring about the changes needed.

[mjhibby]

Most clubs have a huge chunk of cynical fans. Believe me our neighbours have it and the dons fans are utterly brutal towards cormack and the club even though they spend the most outside the bigot bros. I can see both sides but unless we get the team on the park nothing will change. Even then though im sure theres a section of our support will find loads to complain about. The fare of the spl is the worst for a long time and hopefully our new boss gets two or three quality players in as any team who can get a semi decent side on the park will finish top four. We saw unfortunately yesterday how big the gap is between the top two and the rest. Unless that gap is considerably closed i think apathy will set in at a lot of clubs.

[mjhibby]

I completely agree with you. Twitter, on here, just in general. A lot of Hibs fans aren’t happy unless they’re unhappy about Hibs

Its the world we live in of folk being constantly enraged.

[Onion]

Its the world we live in of folk being constantly enraged.

Folk bitching on social media about the owner and club doesn't help but is nothing compared to those who are becoming apathetic and checking out completely - which is what we're seeing at the moment. RG needs to focus on that.

[JimBHibees]

I agree, he should have backed Ross better last summer, he left him hanging out to dry by not doing so, and by sacking him, he passed the blame onto Ross and his staff, giving him players he actually wanted to sign would have helped him, helped the club and helped the fans get behind the club making them less fickle.

The main point i feel that everyone is missing, is we are supposed to be Hibs supporters, when a large amount of folk who say they support Hibs, dont support Hibs, they do their utmost to scream and shout against the club, moaning at everything the club does.

In fact there are threads on here and other social media platforms, where folk actually cant wait to tell us why they are not attending games. :rolleyes:

Thats not supporting the club/team in my book.

Totally agree with all of this.

[The Modfather]

I agree, he should have backed Ross better last summer, he left him hanging out to dry by not doing so, and by sacking him, he passed the blame onto Ross and his staff, giving him players he actually wanted to sign would have helped him, helped the club and helped the fans get behind the club making them less fickle.

The main point i feel that everyone is missing, is we are supposed to be Hibs supporters, when a large amount of folk who say they support Hibs, dont support Hibs, they do their utmost to scream and shout against the club, moaning at everything the club does.

In fact there are threads on here and other social media platforms, where folk actually cant wait to tell us why they are not attending games. :rolleyes:

Thats not supporting the club/team in my book.

I certainly feel closer to being a customer these days than a supporter. It’s happened over time and a result of the way clubs generally treat fans and expect us to dig ever deeper and simply accept our lot.

Some folk look for the negatives, but I think it’s a sign of the times and decades in the making that some people, like myself, now feel more like customers than supporters. The clubs, largely, only have themselves to blame IMO.

[blackpoolhibs]

I certainly feel closer to being a customer these days than a supporter. It’s happened over time and a result of the way clubs generally treat fans and expect us to dig ever deeper and simply accept our lot.

Some folk look for the negatives, but I think it’s a sign of the times and decades in the making that some people, like myself, now feel more like customers than supporters. The clubs, largely, only have themselves to blame IMO.

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

[WhileTheChief..]

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

You're really overegging things here.

You keep repeating that the fans demand this or that or will hound the manager out the door. It's simply not true. We don't have that power.

JR wasn't sacked for not winning the cups or not winning big games. The club decided off their own backs to bin JR and had to get rid of SM.

Who said no manager can survive a losing streak other than you?

If Johnson loses 4 or 5 on the bounce he'll be safe. If he only wins 1 in 15 he should be sacked.

Throwaway culture? Made up hyperbole. Why are you exaggerating things so much and so often?

[CentreLine]

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

Bit of a rant but agree with almost every syllable 👍🏻
Except the bit about renewing season tickets. I have contributed huge amounts of coin of the realm to Hibs for over 55 years. The incessant moaning and criticism aimed at players, staff and supporters at the club and the need for hatred in the stands is a big part of why I’m not renewing. Add to that the way the club handled last season and our downturn in fortunes under JR, giving us absolutely nothing to enthuse about or be entertained by.

It’s been mind numbingly bad. I don’t feel I have let my club down with my support. My club has let me down.

[One Day Soon]

My tuppence worth:

1. The club's owner is just a custodian, the fans were here before their ownership and will be here long after it. Hibernian has no viable future without the engagement of supporters - in particular through season ticket and walk up sales. Constantly working to keep fans happy should be the primary objective of the club, that means thinking very carefully about the messages being sent to the support and it means having the best possible team and results on the park.

2. If it were my decision I would ban anyone from this site using the term 'Ron the Con'. I think it is offensive, unjustified, divisive and certainly not evidenced.

3. LJ was not the manager I wanted to see appointed, but then again these are not my monkeys and it's not my circus. Having made the appointment it is only fair now that Lee, the Board and Ron are given the chance to see how their choice pans out. Unless we witness terminal results and utterly brutal football next season (or a red flashing lights and klaxons sounding transfer window in the summer) my stance will be that the new manager needs between two and four transfer windows to get where he wants to go.

4. I thought Lee did better in the appointment interviews than Ron, largely because I thought it was a significant error on Ron's part to rise to the bait about fans and criticism. I don't care how good, daft, irritating or impatient fans opinions may be on social media, the owner of club has no business reacting to that critically. It's completely counter productive and the debate we are currently having underlines that. If Ron is unable to look away from critical fan opinions he has invested in the wrong sport.

5. I have never doubted Ron Gordon's motivations or intentions. Why buy Hibs? Well, football is one of the world's premier sports, he's a rich man but not rich enough to go in at English premiership level, there is a good prospect of making this club a regular European participant, Edinburgh is a fantastic city and the Scottish league probably offers a better investment/success ratio in terms of the European stuff than many other leagues. If you have Ron scale wealth and experience and want to be part of that game then Hibs makes absolute sense.

6. Social media is where logic and reason goes to die. I just don't post my views about anything Hibernian on social media (I don't really regard .net as social media but more as a relatively open private club) as I reckon there is far more constructive, friendly and good faith discussion to be had here.

7. There are legitimate criticisms to be made and we all have our own opinions as to what they are. Mine focus on hands-on leadership of the club at strategic, day-to-day and team level, the relationship between the club and supporters (which relates directly to the first point), Ron's ability to find the gearing needed to match his ambition and commitment to the club with the football outcomes side and - in particular - our squad depth and how we play. If Ron can keep a thick skin - which TBF Petrie was superb at doing - and have the right kind of management people in place at the club I'm pretty confident we'll get where we want to go.

8. Like others I bought my season ticket during Covid in the likely full knowledge of not getting to see games and I also donate monthly. Any supporter putting their hard earned into the club whether by buying from the club shop, paying for a walk up or anything broader than that is entitled in my view to give their opinion. We have ponied up for years and decades, it's our club regardless of who has their name on the title deeds.

[superfurryhibby]

My tuppence worth:

1. The club's owner is just a custodian, the fans were here before their ownership and will be here long after it. Hibernian has no viable future without the engagement of supporters - in particular through season ticket and walk up sales. Constantly working to keep fans happy should be the primary objective of the club, that means thinking very carefully about the messages being sent to the support and it means having the best possible team and results on the park.

2. If it were my decision I would ban anyone from this site using the term 'Ron the Con'. I think it is offensive, unjustified, divisive and certainly not evidenced.

3. LJ was not the manager I wanted to see appointed, but then again these are not my monkeys and it's not my circus. Having made the appointment it is only fair now that Lee, the Board and Ron are given the chance to see how their choice pans out. Unless we witness terminal results and utterly brutal football next season (or a red flashing lights and klaxons sounding transfer window in the summer) my stance will be that the new manager needs between two and four transfer windows to get where he wants to go.

4. I thought Lee did better in the appointment interviews than Ron, largely because I thought it was a significant error on Ron's part to rise to the bait about fans and criticism. I don't care how good, daft, irritating or impatient fans opinions may be on social media, the owner of club has no business reacting to that critically. It's completely counter productive and the debate we are currently having underlines that. If Ron is unable to look away from critical fan opinions he has invested in the wrong sport.

5. I have never doubted Ron Gordon's motivations or intentions. Why buy Hibs? Well, football is one of the world's premier sports, he's a rich man but not rich enough to go in at English premiership level, there is a good prospect of making this club a regular European participant, Edinburgh is a fantastic city and the Scottish league probably offers a better investment/success ratio in terms of the European stuff than many other leagues. If you have Ron scale wealth and experience and want to be part of that game then Hibs makes absolute sense.

6. Social media is where logic and reason goes to die. I just don't post my views about anything Hibernian on social media (I don't really regard .net as social media but more as a relatively open private club) as I reckon there is far more constructive, friendly and good faith discussion to be had here.

7. There are legitimate criticisms to be made and we all have our own opinions as to what they are. Mine focus on hands-on leadership of the club at strategic, day-to-day and team level, the relationship between the club and supporters (which relates directly to the first point), Ron's ability to find the gearing needed to match his ambition and commitment to the club with the football outcomes side and - in particular - our squad depth and how we play. If Ron can keep a thick skin - which TBF Petrie was superb at doing - and have the right kind of management people in place at the club I'm pretty confident we'll get where we want to go.

8. Like others I bought my season ticket during Covid in the likely full knowledge of not getting to see games and I also donate monthly. Any supporter putting their hard earned into the club whether by buying from the club shop, paying for a walk up or anything broader than that is entitled in my view to give their opinion. We have ponied up for years and decades, it's our club regardless of who has their name on the title deeds.

Agree with most of this. Good post.

[Danderhall Hibs]

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

👏

[FitbaFolkKen]

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

Well said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brog]

You're really overegging things here.

You keep repeating that the fans demand this or that or will hound the manager out the door. It's simply not true. We don't have that power.

JR wasn't sacked for not winning the cups or not winning big games. The club decided off their own backs to bin JR and had to get rid of SM.

Who said no manager can survive a losing streak other than you?

If Johnson loses 4 or 5 on the bounce he'll be safe. If he only wins 1 in 15 he should be sacked.

Throwaway culture? Made up hyperbole. Why are you exaggerating things so much and so often?

You say the club decided off their own backs to bin JR. You don't think the fact we beat one team only, St J twice, in the preceding 12 league games, was relevant as was the crowd reaction at Livingston and the negativity on here and other social media platforms? FWIW I agree with virtually every thing BH says.

[brog]

My tuppence worth:

1. The club's owner is just a custodian, the fans were here before their ownership and will be here long after it. Hibernian has no viable future without the engagement of supporters - in particular through season ticket and walk up sales. Constantly working to keep fans happy should be the primary objective of the club, that means thinking very carefully about the messages being sent to the support and it means having the best possible team and results on the park.

2. If it were my decision I would ban anyone from this site using the term 'Ron the Con'. I think it is offensive, unjustified, divisive and certainly not evidenced.

3. LJ was not the manager I wanted to see appointed, but then again these are not my monkeys and it's not my circus. Having made the appointment it is only fair now that Lee, the Board and Ron are given the chance to see how their choice pans out. Unless we witness terminal results and utterly brutal football next season (or a red flashing lights and klaxons sounding transfer window in the summer) my stance will be that the new manager needs between two and four transfer windows to get where he wants to go.

4. I thought Lee did better in the appointment interviews than Ron, largely because I thought it was a significant error on Ron's part to rise to the bait about fans and criticism. I don't care how good, daft, irritating or impatient fans opinions may be on social media, the owner of club has no business reacting to that critically. It's completely counter productive and the debate we are currently having underlines that. If Ron is unable to look away from critical fan opinions he has invested in the wrong sport.

5. I have never doubted Ron Gordon's motivations or intentions. Why buy Hibs? Well, football is one of the world's premier sports, he's a rich man but not rich enough to go in at English premiership level, there is a good prospect of making this club a regular European participant, Edinburgh is a fantastic city and the Scottish league probably offers a better investment/success ratio in terms of the European stuff than many other leagues. If you have Ron scale wealth and experience and want to be part of that game then Hibs makes absolute sense.

6. Social media is where logic and reason goes to die. I just don't post my views about anything Hibernian on social media (I don't really regard .net as social media but more as a relatively open private club) as I reckon there is far more constructive, friendly and good faith discussion to be had here.

7. There are legitimate criticisms to be made and we all have our own opinions as to what they are. Mine focus on hands-on leadership of the club at strategic, day-to-day and team level, the relationship between the club and supporters (which relates directly to the first point), Ron's ability to find the gearing needed to match his ambition and commitment to the club with the football outcomes side and - in particular - our squad depth and how we play. If Ron can keep a thick skin - which TBF Petrie was superb at doing - and have the right kind of management people in place at the club I'm pretty confident we'll get where we want to go.

8. Like others I bought my season ticket during Covid in the likely full knowledge of not getting to see games and I also donate monthly. Any supporter putting their hard earned into the club whether by buying from the club shop, paying for a walk up or anything broader than that is entitled in my view to give their opinion. We have ponied up for years and decades, it's our club regardless of who has their name on the title deeds.

Excellent post!

[matty_f]

My tuppence worth:

1. The club's owner is just a custodian, the fans were here before their ownership and will be here long after it. Hibernian has no viable future without the engagement of supporters - in particular through season ticket and walk up sales. Constantly working to keep fans happy should be the primary objective of the club, that means thinking very carefully about the messages being sent to the support and it means having the best possible team and results on the park.

2. If it were my decision I would ban anyone from this site using the term 'Ron the Con'. I think it is offensive, unjustified, divisive and certainly not evidenced.

3. LJ was not the manager I wanted to see appointed, but then again these are not my monkeys and it's not my circus. Having made the appointment it is only fair now that Lee, the Board and Ron are given the chance to see how their choice pans out. Unless we witness terminal results and utterly brutal football next season (or a red flashing lights and klaxons sounding transfer window in the summer) my stance will be that the new manager needs between two and four transfer windows to get where he wants to go.

4. I thought Lee did better in the appointment interviews than Ron, largely because I thought it was a significant error on Ron's part to rise to the bait about fans and criticism. I don't care how good, daft, irritating or impatient fans opinions may be on social media, the owner of club has no business reacting to that critically. It's completely counter productive and the debate we are currently having underlines that. If Ron is unable to look away from critical fan opinions he has invested in the wrong sport.

5. I have never doubted Ron Gordon's motivations or intentions. Why buy Hibs? Well, football is one of the world's premier sports, he's a rich man but not rich enough to go in at English premiership level, there is a good prospect of making this club a regular European participant, Edinburgh is a fantastic city and the Scottish league probably offers a better investment/success ratio in terms of the European stuff than many other leagues. If you have Ron scale wealth and experience and want to be part of that game then Hibs makes absolute sense.

6. Social media is where logic and reason goes to die. I just don't post my views about anything Hibernian on social media (I don't really regard .net as social media but more as a relatively open private club) as I reckon there is far more constructive, friendly and good faith discussion to be had here.

7. There are legitimate criticisms to be made and we all have our own opinions as to what they are. Mine focus on hands-on leadership of the club at strategic, day-to-day and team level, the relationship between the club and supporters (which relates directly to the first point), Ron's ability to find the gearing needed to match his ambition and commitment to the club with the football outcomes side and - in particular - our squad depth and how we play. If Ron can keep a thick skin - which TBF Petrie was superb at doing - and have the right kind of management people in place at the club I'm pretty confident we'll get where we want to go.

8. Like others I bought my season ticket during Covid in the likely full knowledge of not getting to see games and I also donate monthly. Any supporter putting their hard earned into the club whether by buying from the club shop, paying for a walk up or anything broader than that is entitled in my view to give their opinion. We have ponied up for years and decades, it's our club regardless of who has their name on the title deeds.

Good post, other than I didn’t/don’t have a problem with Ron’s comment about fans - I don’t think what he said was wrong and I don’t think the club should ever be in a position where it can’t ask questions of the support.

[bigwheel]

Good post, other than I didn’t/don’t have a problem with Ron’s comment about fans - I don’t think what he said was wrong and I don’t think the club should ever be in a position where it can’t ask questions of the support.

Think that’s fair …but wouldn’t it have been better if he had said it something like “my biggest disappointment is that our strategy and approach isn’t connecting with the fans as positively as we would have hoped”..rather than phrase it in a way that was implied criticism of the support..it felt like he was externalising the issue , rather than considering that his approach may be causing some of it …

Anyway. Really enjoyed the post you quoted ..well articulated summary ..

[Mikey]

Good post, other than I didn’t/don’t have a problem with Ron’s comment about fans - I don’t think what he said was wrong and I don’t think the club should ever be in a position where it can’t ask questions of the support.

I didn't get the impression that RG was singling out all critics of the club, just those who have no idea and don't possess basic social skills or common decency. I'm sure constructive criticism is taken on board.

[WhileTheChief..]

I didn't think RG was critical of us.

It sounded to me like he regrets that there isn't a strong bond between fans and club, without apportioning blame to anyone.

[Shrekko]

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

Add me to the list of people agreeing with every syllable of this.

People can vote with their feet all they want but that's not enough for some- they want to shout as loudly and abusively as they can about how unacceptable everything is and what needs done (normally totally unrealistic) before they'll grace us with their presence again.

The worst thing about Jack Ross's sacking was the acceptance by even most of the balanced fans that it probably had to happen, but not because he couldn't turn us around or deserved a chance to... just that we knew a lot of people had been waiting for the chance to hound him out and they'd make it so difficult to give him a reasonable environment to get things rolling again.

Hibs sacking a manager weeks before a cup final would have been rightly unthinkable 10 years ago yet none of us were surprised when it happened.

[WhileTheChief..]

I thought most of us were surprised that JR was sacked but not a lot of us were too bothered by it?

I definitely didn't think defeat to Livvi would see him gone.

[Hibernian Verse]

If we hadn't put the big screens in we'd have finished 3rd nap.

[matty_f]

I didn't get the impression that RG was singling out all critics of the club, just those who have no idea and don't possess basic social skills or common decency. I'm sure constructive criticism is taken on board.

Yeah, I don’t think I really worded what I wanted to say very well - talked about it on Longbangers this week and was struggling with articulating it without sounding like I was either hammering folk for criticising (I’m not) or backing Ron regardless (I’m not).

[matty_f]

Add me to the list of people agreeing with every syllable of this.

People can vote with their feet all they want but that's not enough for some- they want to shout as loudly and abusively as they can about how unacceptable everything is and what needs done (normally totally unrealistic) before they'll grace us with their presence again.

The worst thing about Jack Ross's sacking was the acceptance by even most of the balanced fans that it probably had to happen, but not because he couldn't turn us around or deserved a chance to... just that we knew a lot of people had been waiting for the chance to hound him out and they'd make it so difficult to give him a reasonable environment to get things rolling again.

Hibs sacking a manager weeks before a cup final would have been rightly unthinkable 10 years ago yet none of us were surprised when it happened.

Your paragraph about JR’s sacking is brilliantly worded and sums up exactly how I felt at the time.

[B.H.F.C]

I thought most of us were surprised that JR was sacked but not a lot of us were too bothered by it?

I definitely didn't think defeat to Livvi would see him gone.

I was definitely surprised when it came out the morning after the Livingston game. It seemed pretty inevitable, to me, that he was going to be away at some point but I didn’t think it would happen as abruptly as it did. I also thought the majority of people were somewhere in the middle (not fussed if he stayed, not fussed if he went) with a smaller number of folk at either end of the scale.

[SlickShoes]

I was definitely surprised when it came out the morning after the Livingston game. It seemed pretty inevitable, to me, that he was going to be away at some point but I didn’t think it would happen as abruptly as it did. I also thought the majority of people were somewhere in the middle (not fussed if he stayed, not fussed if he went) with a smaller number of folk at either end of the scale.

That game was a tipping point for me, I didn't agree with the people that wanted him out before that, but that game made it so that when he was sacked I was not shocked. It was such an abysmal performance on all levels, completely unacceptable.

[superfurryhibby]

Add me to the list of people agreeing with every syllable of this.

People can vote with their feet all they want but that's not enough for some- they want to shout as loudly and abusively as they can about how unacceptable everything is and what needs done (normally totally unrealistic) before they'll grace us with their presence again.

The worst thing about Jack Ross's sacking was the acceptance by even most of the balanced fans that it probably had to happen, but not because he couldn't turn us around or deserved a chance to... just that we knew a lot of people had been waiting for the chance to hound him out and they'd make it so difficult to give him a reasonable environment to get things rolling again.

Hibs sacking a manager weeks before a cup final would have been rightly unthinkable 10 years ago yet none of us were surprised when it happened.

I don't think for one moment that Ross's sacking was due to people hounding him or whatever. It was a board decision and was entirely predictable, given the run of form, previous fallings out and the past capitulations in the cup final and semi finals. I think you're falling into that trap of blaming fans, instead of looking at the actual football matters and relations between manager and the people running the club.

[matty_f]

I don't think for one moment that Ross's sacking was due to people hounding him or whatever. It was a board decision and was entirely predictable, given the run of form, previous fallings out and the past capitulations in the cup final and semi finals. I think you're falling into that trap of blaming fans, instead of looking at the actual football matters and relations between manager and the people running the club.

I don’t think any one factor is to blame or is blameless.

[superfurryhibby]

I don’t think any one factor is to blame or is blameless.

Well, we should be wary off buying too much into the fan blame narrative in my view. Performances on the pitch matter far far more than the views of people on social media or a few dafties at the match.

I wonder, who was the last manager to be sacked at Hibs when the team was on a run of good form?

[CentreLine]

Well, we should be wary off buying too much into the fan blame narrative in my view. Performances on the pitch matter far far more than the views of people on social media or a few dafties at the match.

I wonder, who was the last manager to be sacked at Hibs when the team was on a run of good form?

Willie McFarlane, not sacked but left after a fall out with the chairman

[ancient hibee]

Willie McFarlane, not sacked but left after a fall out with the chairman

The fall out being that the chairman wanted to pick the team to play Liverpool.

[matty_f]

Well, we should be wary off buying too much into the fan blame narrative in my view. Performances on the pitch matter far far more than the views of people on social media or a few dafties at the match.

I wonder, who was the last manager to be sacked at Hibs when the team was on a run of good form?
Are you talking specifically about manager sackings or the wider issues being discussed?

I’d agree that performance is by far and away the biggest factor in management casualties.

Usually fans don’t complain when the team is doing well, though we’ve seen evidence to contradict that in recent times.

[CentreLine]

The fall out being that the chairman wanted to pick the team to play Liverpool.

Greatest of respect for Eddie Turnbull but I’m convinced Willie McFarlane would have gone further

[Stonewall]

We demand cup wins now, we demand our manager whoever he is to win big games, failure to do any of this and they are hounded out the door.

When we actually win some big games, there is little praise, it's given with caveats of beating sides we should beat anyway, or they played ****, or for high league places, the league was ****, this club or that club were ****.

We then find a system and team who win a lot of games, are 3rd top goalscorers, reach finals and semi finals, but thats not good enough, they have to play better and entertain more.

So the guy who's done that, is slaughtered by a noisy minority, that minority influence others including our owner, and we have a baying mob still a minority making all the noise.

It is infectious, and we now have a culture where no manager we employ can have a poor run, they have to be sacked and it has to be right he's sacked, because they baying mob say so.

No manager will be given a chance now to have a bad season, even if they have had previously done well, they need to be sacked and never given a chance to do it again at Hibs.

We have applied the throwaway culture at Easter Rd, no manager will ever be allowed to try and build anything decent, because if he's successfull he will be poached, and if he has a poor season, he's sacked.

Every club is looking for more and more ways to bring in more money and more money means we can spend more money on better players.

If this is the reason some folk are feeling less conected with the club, and more of a customer than a fan, feel free to suggest other ways for the club to grow it's income, as i cant see any?

It's just the way football is going, and those who take great delight at telling us the 4 or 5 reasons why they wont be at Easter Rd really shouldnt be moaning, as they have stopped contibuting towards the growth of the club, either by not renewing their season ticket, or not getting behind the players when they need it most.

Well said.

The thing most likely to make me not renew this year was the attitude of the noisy minority in our support and the negative corrosive influence the have on me, the club and team.

It nearly did for me this season, but not quite.

[superfurryhibby]

Willie McFarlane, not sacked but left after a fall out with the chairman


I think the Chairman effectively ended McFarlane's Hibs stay that night. Sacked or obliged to resign. Hart got what he must have expected?


Are you talking specifically about manager sackings or the wider issues being discussed?

I’d agree that performance is by far and away the biggest factor in management casualties.

Usually fans don’t complain when the team is doing well, though we’ve seen evidence to contradict that in recent times.

Not sure anymore.. The doing well part, I guess it's all relative to expectation. Hibs fans have had theirs heightened with the new ownership and the idea that there will be a more adventurous level of investment in the football team.

[Shrekko]

I don't think for one moment that Ross's sacking was due to people hounding him or whatever. It was a board decision and was entirely predictable, given the run of form, previous fallings out and the past capitulations in the cup final and semi finals. I think you're falling into that trap of blaming fans, instead of looking at the actual football matters and relations between manager and the people running the club.

Nah I'm not at all.

We're all supposedly in this together- it's never just one thing 'to blame' when things are going pear shaped. But if we are talking (at the moment) about the role the fans have to play and you are telling me you think we're having a generally positive influence on how things are going and that we couldn't do more then I disagree on a number of scores.

Totally disagree re your take on Jack Ross but there's no point regurgitating that old chestnut as people's views are firmly entrenched.

[Stonewall]

Add me to the list of people agreeing with every syllable of this.

People can vote with their feet all they want but that's not enough for some- they want to shout as loudly and abusively as they can about how unacceptable everything is and what needs done (normally totally unrealistic) before they'll grace us with their presence again.

The worst thing about Jack Ross's sacking was the acceptance by even most of the balanced fans that it probably had to happen, but not because he couldn't turn us around or deserved a chance to... just that we knew a lot of people had been waiting for the chance to hound him out and they'd make it so difficult to give him a reasonable environment to get things rolling again.

Hibs sacking a manager weeks before a cup final would have been rightly unthinkable 10 years ago yet none of us were surprised when it happened.

I agree with this totally. There were people on here who had taken on board a lot of the criticisms of Ross coming from Sunderland fans and used every shred of supporting evidence to undermine him from an early stage in his tenure whilst disregarding or qualifying any evidence to the contrary. I think at the end it whipped up a lynch mob and had a negative effect on the team but most of these guys don't believe their actions have have consequences.

[superfurryhibby]

Nah I'm not at all.

We're all supposedly in this together- it's never just one thing 'to blame' when things are going pear shaped. But if we are talking (at the moment) about the role the fans have to play and you are telling me you think we're having a generally positive influence on how things are going and that we couldn't do more then I disagree on a number of scores.

Totally disagree re your take on Jack Ross but there's no point regurgitating that old chestnut as people's views are firmly entrenched.

As entrenched as your own then? I never said any of the things you mention, I'm just not buying into the fan blaming , see the post below.


I agree with this totally. There were people on here who had taken on board a lot of the criticisms of Ross coming from Sunderland fans and used every shred of supporting evidence to undermine him from an early stage in his tenure whilst disregarding or qualifying any evidence to the contrary. I think at the end it whipped up a lynch mob and had a negative effect on the team but most of these guys don't believe their actions have have consequences.

Maybe if his team had won the final v St Johnston, or the semi finals v St Johnstone /Hearts there would have been more support for Ross. As it is, I think you're over egging the pudding with lynch mob and negative effect on the team talk. The team was pish, fans don't like it, no surprises there really. I would look a bit deeper, consider why the team was so poor. It wasn't the fans fault we didn't invest wisely in players.

[Shrekko]

As entrenched as your own then?

Yeah as entrenched as my own. Didn't say otherwise.

You've gone on to effectively say that if JR had won at least 1 cup and made the final of every other cup during his tenure (as opposed to ONLY making 2 finals and 2 semi's) then he may have got a a bit more leeway! That sums it up pretty nicely.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I thought most of us were surprised that JR was sacked but not a lot of us were too bothered by it?

I definitely didn't think defeat to Livvi would see him gone.

Yup.

Folk are rewriting history now. There was a poll when JR was sacked and I’m sure only slightly over 50% of people thought he should still be here.

All these posts about noisy minorities, first bad run etc conveniently keep missing out that it wasn’t actually our first bad run and they also conveniently fail to point out quite how bad a run we were on.

Now we’ve got people saying they accepted Jack Ross had to go because other fans wanted him to go :faf: people accepted at the time Jack Ross had to go because we were ****ing terrible and it showed absolutely no sign of getting better. They didn’t accept it because other people wanted him gone as is now being claimed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yeah as entrenched as my own. Didn't say otherwise.

You've gone on to effectively say that if JR had won at least 1 cup and made the final of every other cup during his tenure (as opposed to ONLY making 2 finals and 2 semi's) then he may have got a a bit more leeway! That sums it up pretty nicely.

That conveniently misses out the fact it was St Johnstone twice and Hearts (lower league side) that beat us in these games.

In isolation, cup semi finals and finals are good. Not so much when you lose them without laying a glove on the other team (both St J games) or when you lose to your rivals who are in the league below you.

The two St Johnstone games were two of the most disgraceful performances I’ve seen from Hibs considering the occasion and who we were playing.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yup.

Folk are rewriting history now. There was a poll when JR was sacked and I’m sure only slightly over 50% of people thought he should still be here.

All these posts about noisy minorities, first bad run etc conveniently keep missing out that it wasn’t actually our first bad run and they also conveniently fail to point out quite how bad a run we were on.

Now we’ve got people saying they accepted Jack Ross had to go because other fans wanted him to go :faf: people accepted at the time Jack Ross had to go because we were ****ing terrible. They didn’t accept it because other people wanted him gone as is now being claimed.

:top marks

Remember when Hamilton beat us in the playoffs? Remember the noise in and around the stadium when the final whistle went?

That's fans properly letting their feelings be known!!

Neither JR or SM received any kind of abuse at ER. There wasn't one occasion when the stands of ER were ringing out with 'JR must go' or 'sack the board'.

The worst that happened was a few grumbles from a few fans at Livvi and some pretty crappy stuff on Twitter and Facebook.

Now, Hibs are ruined and will never get success because we will demand, and get our own way, if we lose a few games!!

As if we have any say whatsoever in what happens at ER. If we did LJ wouldn't be here :wink::duck:

[JohnM1875]

Another thread with plenty JR chat, fantastic.

[CentreLine]

As entrenched as your own then? I never said any of the things you mention, I'm just not buying into the fan blaming , see the post below.



Maybe if his team had won the final v St Johnston, or the semi finals v St Johnstone /Hearts there would have been more support for Ross. As it is, I think you're over egging the pudding with lynch mob and negative effect on the team talk. The team was pish, fans don't like it, no surprises there really. I would look a bit deeper, consider why the team was so poor. It wasn't the fans fault we didn't invest wisely in players.

Would it be unreasonable to expect the fans to lift the team when they are going through a dip rather than grind their metaphorical faces in to the dirt?

[matty_f]

Would it be unreasonable to expect the fans to lift the team when they are going through a dip rather than grind their metaphorical faces in to the dirt?

That’s a great question.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Would it be unreasonable to expect the fans to lift the team when they are going through a dip rather than grind their metaphorical faces in to the dirt?

Tumbleweed [emoji23]


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[CentreLine]

Tumbleweed [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It got your attention and for good reason. It will not have escaped the attention of others on this site that your dismissive comment sadly helps prove my point about fan attitude towards others.

[Stonewall]

Maybe if his team had won the final v St Johnston, or the semi finals v St Johnstone /Hearts there would have been more support for Ross. As it is, I think you're over egging the pudding with lynch mob and negative effect on the team talk. The team was pish, fans don't like it, no surprises there really. I would look a bit deeper, consider why the team was so poor. It wasn't the fans fault we didn't invest wisely in players.

Was it Ross’s fault though? Mathie was sacked although he may have been a scapegoat. To me Ross was on a hiding to nothing given the poor window, ridiculous concentration of fixtures in the first half of the season and the number of injuries which meant we were creaking after a good start even before the wheels fell off after Porteous got himself sent off against Rangers.

I’ll give you the Lynch mob comment but there is no doubt that a narrative took hold amongst a substantial section of the support even prior to the terrible run at the end of Ross’s reign. Every bad result reinforced the narrative and every good result was either ignored or downgraded. Crowds were dropping off and the entertainment value was being strongly questioned. Personally I barely saw a decent game involving any clubs watching games on TV without any crowds so the case was overstated.

If you don’t think the negative attitude of the crowd has an effect on the team I don’t think there’s anything I could say to you to change your mind. Perhaps you’ve never had times in your life when you’ve been dragged down by the attitude of others around you.

Ross’s tenure was punctuated by inexplicably bad performances of which the two St Johnston games were undeniably examples. I can’t excuse them but would observe that had we scored first I think we would have gone on to win both.

We were clearly the better team against Hearts in a match played in horrendous conditions which favoured them and they had Craig Gordon. This happens in football.

I was at the Livi game and I’ll admit it was getting hard to defend Ross at this point. However to me the timing of his dismissal smelt of a panicked decision or given the rumoured falling out between Ross and Gordon an excuse to get rid. (Or maybe even a bit of both).

[MWHIBBIES]

That conveniently misses out the fact it was St Johnstone twice and Hearts (lower league side) that beat us in these games.

In isolation, cup semi finals and finals are good. Not so much when you lose them without laying a glove on the other team (both St J games) or when you lose to your rivals who are in the league below you.

The two St Johnstone games were two of the most disgraceful performances I’ve seen from Hibs considering the occasion and who we were playing.

Blatant lie we didn't lay a glove on them in the league cup semi. Hit the bar and post and goalie made some brilliant saves.

[Since452]

That conveniently misses out the fact it was St Johnstone twice and Hearts (lower league side) that beat us in these games.

In isolation, cup semi finals and finals are good. Not so much when you lose them without laying a glove on the other team (both St J games) or when you lose to your rivals who are in the league below you.

The two St Johnstone games were two of the most disgraceful performances I’ve seen from Hibs considering the occasion and who we were playing.

I thought we battered St Johnstone in the semi. Just couldn't put the ball in the next. Their goal knocked the stuffing out us and we never recovered.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Blatant lie we didn't lay a glove on them in the league cup semi. Hit the bar and post and goalie made some brilliant saves.

Ah ok. I’ll amend that to “didn’t lay a glove on them from 35 mins onwards when we went behind and pathetically surrendered the match” then.

We were ****ing terrible that day, losing 3-0 to St Johnstone at Hampden and rolling over and getting our belly’s tickled once we went behind was an absolute disgrace.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I thought we battered St Johnstone in the semi. Just couldn't put the ball in the next. Their goal knocked the stuffing out us and we never recovered.

There goal was 35 minutes in. Not being able to recover after losing a goal against St Johnstone and looking like we’d accepted defeat 35 mins into a semi final was a disgrace.

Point of the post was that superfurryhibby had suggested if Ross had won one of these games he’d have possibly had more support. It was then suggested that was almost unreasonable to have expected that from JR as that would have actually meant winning a cup and getting to more finals. That suggestion is absolutely ridiculous imo. Semi finals and finals shouldn’t just be considered a free hit and the fact you’ve got there celebrated when your opponents are St Johnstone twice and a lower league Hearts. They should be absolute must wins.

[JimBHibees]

Ah ok. I’ll amend that to “didn’t lay a glove on them from 35 mins onwards when we went behind and pathetically surrendered the match” then.

We were ****ing terrible that day, losing 3-0 to St Johnstone at Hampden and rolling over and getting our belly’s tickled once we went behind was an absolute disgrace.

Spot on absolutely putrid the way we folded in that game

[The Modfather]

Was it Ross’s fault though? Mathie was sacked although he may have been a scapegoat. To me Ross was on a hiding to nothing given the poor window, ridiculous concentration of fixtures in the first half of the season and the number of injuries which meant we were creaking after a good start even before the wheels fell off after Porteous got himself sent off against Rangers.

I’ll give you the Lynch mob comment but there is no doubt that a narrative took hold amongst a substantial section of the support even prior to the terrible run at the end of Ross’s reign. Every bad result reinforced the narrative and every good result was either ignored or downgraded. Crowds were dropping off and the entertainment value was being strongly questioned. Personally I barely saw a decent game involving any clubs watching games on TV without any crowds so the case was overstated.

If you don’t think the negative attitude of the crowd has an effect on the team I don’t think there’s anything I could say to you to change your mind. Perhaps you’ve never had times in your life when you’ve been dragged down by the attitude of others around you.

Ross’s tenure was punctuated by inexplicably bad performances of which the two St Johnston games were undeniably examples. I can’t excuse them but would observe that had we scored first I think we would have gone on to win both.

We were clearly the better team against Hearts in a match played in horrendous conditions which favoured them and they had Craig Gordon. This happens in football.

I was at the Livi game and I’ll admit it was getting hard to defend Ross at this point. However to me the timing of his dismissal smelt of a panicked decision or given the rumoured falling out between Ross and Gordon an excuse to get rid. (Or maybe even a bit of both).

A fair and balanced post. The mirror of those that spout constant negativity are those that won’t accept valid criticism or have a grown up debate. Some posters took great delight in trying to belittle others who said they didn’t enjoy a lot of the football under Ross. Or those that would sacrifice a league place or two for a more entertaining style e.g. I’d swap Lennon’s 4th for Ross’ 3rd every time. The counters were always extreme, “Only 1970s Brazil is now acceptable”, “some folk would take 8th and better football than third, mental” etc etc

Those posters are just as entrenched and causing division and an us and them narrative as those that go over the top with the negativity.

[RIP]

It would be interesting for the club if they could get a handle on whether those who post on social media platforms represent the views of the Hibs support or only represent that section of our support who like to debate, argue and register their often strong opinions.

For example, when we try and claim that 50% of fans wanted a manager sacked, don’t we actually mean that a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard poll voted for him to be sacked? Isn’t it natural that if I wanted my manager sacked, I would look for such a poll and act to vote on it?

It’s a bit of a stretch to claim that these polls represent the supporters who attend our games.

[Hibernian Verse]

It would be interesting for the club if they could get a handle on whether those who post on social media platforms represent the views of the Hibs support or only represent that section of our support who like to debate, argue and register their often strong opinions.

For example, when we try and claim that 50% of fans wanted a manager sacked, don’t we actually mean that a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard poll voted for him to be sacked? Isn’t it natural that if I wanted my manager sacked, I would look for such a poll and act to vote on it?

It’s a bit of a stretch to claim that these polls represent the supporters who attend our games.

Considering the activity between 3-5pm on the match threads I think you're absolutely spot on.

[The Modfather]

It would be interesting for the club if they could get a handle on whether those who post on social media platforms represent the views of the Hibs support or only represent that section of our support who like to debate, argue and register their often strong opinions.

For example, when we try and claim that 50% of fans wanted a manager sacked, don’t we actually mean that a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard poll voted for him to be sacked? Isn’t it natural that if I wanted my manager sacked, I would look for such a poll and act to vote on it?

It’s a bit of a stretch to claim that these polls represent the supporters who attend our games.

Polls on social media and fans forums etc give an indication and I’d be surprised if they were massively out of sync with the general feeling of the wider support. However they won’t give an accurate gauge in isolation, attendances are also a good indicator. Not just tickets sold but the attendances actually turning up to games.

[hibsforeurope]

With the spend - we shelled out significant (relative to us) fees for Mackay, Hauge, Melkersen, Nisbet, Magennis just off the top of my head.

That can’t be ignored. Also significant cost to hire Maloney and his backroom team and then replace them.

The last set of accounts suggested that the money spent came from within the club, there was very minimal financial input for Owners/directors. This may have changed since these accounts as we've paid off 2 managers and brought in a few players on permanent and Loan deals but it is just speculation that he's putting in his own money to fund signings.

I really want him to succeed, as i want a successful Hibs team to watch, as we all do. but to give him a free unquestioned ride is potentially dangerous.

[matty_f]

The last set of accounts suggested that the money spent came from within the club, there was very minimal financial input for Owners/directors. This may have changed since these accounts as we've paid off 2 managers and brought in a few players on permanent and Loan deals but it is just speculation that he's putting in his own money to fund signings.

I really want him to succeed, as i want a successful Hibs team to watch, as we all do. but to give him a free unquestioned ride is potentially dangerous.

I don’t think anyone was suggesting Ron fronted that money himself, more that there was significant investment in the team irrespective of the source.

Totally agree that he shouldn’t be given a free, unquestioned ride - I think that’s been made clear in the posts about it already.

[One Day Soon]

Spot on absolutely putrid the way we folded in that game

It was a complete disgrace and perhaps was the peak of the somehow passionless performances JR was getting from his team.

[superfurryhibby]

Was it Ross’s fault though? Mathie was sacked although he may have been a scapegoat. To me Ross was on a hiding to nothing given the poor window, ridiculous concentration of fixtures in the first half of the season and the number of injuries which meant we were creaking after a good start even before the wheels fell off after Porteous got himself sent off against Rangers.

I’ll give you the Lynch mob comment but there is no doubt that a narrative took hold amongst a substantial section of the support even prior to the terrible run at the end of Ross’s reign. Every bad result reinforced the narrative and every good result was either ignored or downgraded. Crowds were dropping off and the entertainment value was being strongly questioned. Personally I barely saw a decent game involving any clubs watching games on TV without any crowds so the case was overstated.

If you don’t think the negative attitude of the crowd has an effect on the team I don’t think there’s anything I could say to you to change your mind. Perhaps you’ve never had times in your life when you’ve been dragged down by the attitude of others around you.

Ross’s tenure was punctuated by inexplicably bad performances of which the two St Johnston games were undeniably examples. I can’t excuse them but would observe that had we scored first I think we would have gone on to win both.

We were clearly the better team against Hearts in a match played in horrendous conditions which favoured them and they had Craig Gordon. This happens in football.

I was at the Livi game and I’ll admit it was getting hard to defend Ross at this point. However to me the timing of his dismissal smelt of a panicked decision or given the rumoured falling out between Ross and Gordon an excuse to get rid. (Or maybe even a bit of both).

I agree with most of what you say. However, the bit in bold. If you mean the crowd getting on players backs when they pass sideways or if we go a goal down v opponents we have reasonable cause to think we should be beating, of course it adds to the pressures on players. Are Hibs fans really any different from any other set of supporters in that respect?

On a personal level, I'm not one for haranguing players or screaming obscenities when a pass goes astray etc. I also get annoyed at some of the pish spouted by dafties at the match. However, it's a product of what's happening on the field, not the cause of how a match unfolds. Most fans are fairly realistic. Take the Celtic cup final, we were right behind the team and rightly applauded them for their efforts (despite losing two ridiculous goals). Same with Hearts semi. I went with very little hope, but we as fans responded to the efforts of the players and roared them on. That said, people lose patience watching the gash performances we served up v the likes of Livi, Dundee etc. That's football. Does it help the players, no. Is it that unexpected, also no.