Hibs recruitment system

[Hibbyradge]

The recruitment process at Hibs is being used as a stick to beat Ron Gordon with and more and more top candidates being said to have turned us down because of it. Frankly, I think that's absolute nonsense.

Having a recruitment team to identify players who we can afford and who match what we are looking for, is a good system and would appeal to most managers, imo.

How is one individual manager supposed to have a good knowledge of all the players in the leagues around the UK, Europe and further afield?

I would have thought most managers would appreciate that assistance as long as they have the final say which is exactly what Hibs offer. I'm also absolutely certain that if the manager was very keen on someone who hadn't been identified by the team, that steps would be taken to bring him in.

The suggestion that someone would turn the job down because they didn't have full responsibility for identifying potential signings seems ludicrous.

Apologies to the Private members for the duplicate content.

[JohnM1875]

Have to agree it is becoming ridiculous. I'd bet most teams in Europe actually operate in a similar manner these days.

[WhileTheChief..]

Nobody would give a damn about our setup if we signed decent players.

We don’t though.

We mostly sign guff, so it’s only natural that we question why. It would be mental if we didn’t.

if we have a decent window, and sign some first team starters that actually improve us, nobody will be talking about Ian Gordon or the recruitment team.

[Hibbyradge]

Nobody would give a damn about our setup if we signed decent players.

We don’t though.

We mostly sign guff, so it’s only natural that we question why. It would be mental if we didn’t.

if we have a decent window, and sign some first team starters that actually improve us, nobody will be talking about Ian Gordon or the recruitment team.

That may be true, but that's not my point.

The process is cited as a reason that managers are knocking us back. Managers who have either never been approached, remain unnamed, and who most certainly haven't been offered a job to reject, I would add.

It's nonsense.

[hibsforeurope]

The recruitment process at Hibs is being used as a stick to beat Ron Gordon with and more and more top candidates being said to have turned us down because of it. Frankly, I think that's absolute nonsense.

Having a recruitment team to identify players who we can afford and who match what we are looking for, is a good system and would appeal to most managers, imo.

How is one individual manager supposed to have a good knowledge of all the players in the leagues around the UK, Europe and further afield?

I would have thought most managers would appreciate that assistance as long as they have the final say which is exactly what Hibs offer. I'm also absolutely certain that if the manager was very keen on someone who hadn't been identified by the team, that steps would be taken to bring him in.

The suggestion that someone would turn the job down because they didn't have full responsibility for identifying potential signings seems ludicrous.

Apologies to the Private members for the duplicate content.

Most of the gripes are at the fact there is no football people, or people with the required knowledge heading up this process.

[Hibbyradge]

Most of the gripes are at the fact there is no football people, or people with the required knowledge heading up this process.

Of course, it would be.

[Iain G]

Most of the gripes are at the fact there is no football people, or people with the required knowledge heading up this process.

Other than the manager!

[Hibbyradge]

Other than the manager!

And his assistant(s) and coaching team.

[MrSmith]

I would guess it's down to the fact that so many of the players that let the club down this year are on long contracts? And, with the better players such as Porto and Doig looking like they are gone, any manager would be looking at the current squad thinking there is not much wriggle room to put my own stamp here! recruitment is a mess at the moment and if we can see that, what is a top manager going to think!?

[Jones28]

The root of the problem IMO is the perception behind Ron Gordon putting his son in to a position titled "head of recruitment". The optics on that give his position much more weight than it actually holds.

Why not call it "Recruitment Co-ordinator" or something with less gravitas. It's the implication.

[Real Emerald]

That may be true, but that's not my point.

The process is cited as a reason that managers are knocking us back. Managers who have either never been approached, remain unnamed, and who most certainly haven't been offered a job to reject, I would add.

It's nonsense.

It may very well be nonsense but if it’s said and reported enough times people will start to believe it. Factor in the state of the squad and the less than brilliant signings it’s hard to argue it’s been a success. Any manager coming in has to rely on the current system and employees to identify players for him, going on their previous form I wouldn’t be that confident they will be any better in the future.

[chippy]

Nobody would give a damn about our setup if we signed decent players.

We don’t though.

We mostly sign guff, so it’s only natural that we question why. It would be mental if we didn’t.

if we have a decent window, and sign some first team starters that actually improve us, nobody will be talking about Ian Gordon or the recruitment team.

Truth

[bingo70]

Most of the gripes are at the fact there is no football people, or people with the required knowledge heading up this process.

Presumably that’s the managers role on the committee? Should we have another football person on there to potentially undermine the manager? What happens if they disagree.

Does somebody analysing data on a player need to be a football person? IMO it’s they’re job to present the data to the football person (the manager) to make the final decision?

Same applies to the money person on this committee, if the data team and football person come to the money person, let’s say that’s Ben Kinsell, and say we want a striker, we really want this guy, can we afford him? He says no, then it’s down to the next option or they push back and explain why he’s worth the money. Does Ben Kinsell, for that role in that process, need to be a football person or would it be better for someone to have a handle on the finances?

Whole transfer committee thing has been blown way out of proportion IMO.

[Coco Bryce]

Nobody would give a damn about our setup if we signed decent players.

We don’t though.

We mostly sign guff, so it’s only natural that we question why. It would be mental if we didn’t.

if we have a decent window, and sign some first team starters that actually improve us, nobody will be talking about Ian Gordon or the recruitment team.

:agree:

[Hibbyradge]

I would guess it's down to the fact that so many of the players that let the club down this year are on long contracts? And, with the better players such as Porto and Doig looking like they are gone, any manager would be looking at the current squad thinking there is not much wriggle room to put my own stamp here! recruitment is a mess at the moment and if we can see that, what is a top manager going to think!?

And yet, when we give players long contracts, everyone is usually pleased.

Every manager we've ever had had signed crap players, but we let them go. Very few players are happy to pick up a wage if they're not getting a game. Gareth Bale is one notible exception!

I don't believe that anyone has knocked us back because of the recruitment process. If Hibs tried to recruit a manager but told him he'd have sole responsibility for identifying and signing players, they'd be setting them up to fail.

[MikeyS]

Presumably that’s the managers role on the committee? Should we have another football person on there to potentially undermine the manager? What happens if they disagree.

Does somebody analysing data on a player need to be a football person? IMO it’s they’re job to present the data to the football person (the manager) to make the final decision?

Same applies to the money person on this committee, if the data team and football person come to the money person, let’s say that’s Ben Kinsell, and say we want a striker, we really want this guy, can we afford him? He says no, then it’s down to the next option or they push back and explain why he’s worth the money. Does Ben Kinsell, for that role in that process, need to be a football person or would it be better for someone to have a handle on the finances?

Whole transfer committee thing has been blown way out of proportion IMO.

Great Post, Bingo.

Hearts fans don't seem that fussed that Joe Savage is tasked with signing players. That'll change pretty rapidly if they have a nightmare next season but that's the fickle nature of the average football fan.

If we hit the ground running next season, Ian Gordon's name or made up job title won't be mentioned much on these pages!

[hibsforeurope]

Presumably that’s the managers role on the committee? Should we have another football person on there to potentially undermine the manager? What happens if they disagree.

Does somebody analysing data on a player need to be a football person? IMO it’s they’re job to present the data to the football person (the manager) to make the final decision?

Same applies to the money person on this committee, if the data team and football person come to the money person, let’s say that’s Ben Kinsell, and say we want a striker, we really want this guy, can we afford him? He says no, then it’s down to the next option or they push back and explain why he’s worth the money. Does Ben Kinsell, for that role in that process, need to be a football person or would it be better for someone to have a handle on the finances?

Whole transfer committee thing has been blown way out of proportion IMO.

The manager might have final sign off but the others are the ones sending the names to him. numbers and data don't always make a good player, this is where football knowledge is important.

[bingo70]

The manager might have final sign off but the others are the ones sending the names to him. numbers and data don't always make a good player, this is where football knowledge is important.

Yes, I agree with all of that.

It’s also why the manager signs off on players coming into the club?

[Hibbyradge]

The manager might have final sign off but the others are the ones sending the names to him. numbers and data don't always make a good player, this is where football knowledge is important.

What's stopping all the "football people" like the manager, assistants and coaches identifying players too?

I also assume that once the player is identified, "football people" will look at him in action.

[CL0762]

The issue is, neither Ian Gordon nor Kensell have a track record regarding signing players yet are part of the so called ‘transfer committee’ headed up by Ron Gordon who also has no experience in football recruitment.

Also, if they want to give Ian the title of ‘head or recruitment’ don’t then backtrack and say he just heads up a team of analysts. Head of recruitment title means they are the head of recruiting. Not team leader or supervisor of analysts.

What we need is a sporting director/director of football with expertise in that particular field to head up the recruitment stage from which someone like Ian can learn from. Not foisting him into a role of which he is severely under qualified for.

[MrSmith]

And yet, when we give players long contracts, everyone is usually pleased.

Every manager we've ever had had signed crap players, but we let them go. Very few players are happy to pick up a wage if they're not getting a game. Gareth Bale is one notible exception!

I don't believe that anyone has knocked us back because of the recruitment process. If Hibs tried to recruit a manager but told him he'd have sole responsibility for identifying and signing players, they'd be setting them up to fail.

I don't disagree and I guess none of us know who has or hasn't knocked us back, if any. Getting caught up on the speculation and hearsay.

[Iain G]

David Marshall has final approval of the new manager that the non footballing people have found through the Manager Committee...

[Scotty Leither]

That may be true, but that's not my point.

The process is cited as a reason that managers are knocking us back. Managers who have either never been approached, remain unnamed, and who most certainly haven't been offered a job to reject, I would add.

It's nonsense.

The thing is, you’re talking about two separate things here. Idle speculation about why potential managers are turning us down because of the recruitment process is exactly that, speculation drummed up by lazy journalists.

The recruitment of suitable players to cut it in this league has been garbage though, that’s why we’re possibly headed for tenth place and fuelling the detachment from the fan base.

Both of these summaries of two different but linked points can be true.

[Northernhibee]

It sounds like we’re going into stats on an insanely nerdy level through this team and although there’s a time and a place for that, it doesn’t tell you even half of what you need to know.

Joe Newell rates very highly in this league for interceptions (and he’s a player I like). However when the game gets quite physical he doesn’t fare as well and tends to disappear a bit. Stats alone would show he’d be good in a position in midfield where he’s breaking up opposition play but we know that’s not his strength.

There are things about character and determination and attitude that can’t be measured and I feel that so many of our signings have been very samey, particularly in midfield.

There’s a place for all the modern stuff but there also needs to be a bit of the old school “will this player deliver when the chips are down” that I think we’re missing quite regularly.

We have lots of players who might be good with the right team mates around them but nobody to make that team gel or pick them up when we hit a setback.

[Hibbyradge]

David Marshall has final approval of the new manager that the non footballing people have found through the Manager Committee...

I've read that several times but nope, I don't understand it.

Apart from the dripping sarcasm, obvs. :greengrin

[Paulie Walnuts]

What's stopping all the "football people" like the manager, assistants and coaches identifying players too?

I also assume that once the player is identified, "football people" will look at him in action.

That might not be the way the recruitment process works at Hibs though.

I don’t think we actually know anywhere near enough about how the process works to be able to say either way whether it would put people off or not.

Yes, most clubs probably operate like this but there’ll be more than enough nuances to the setup that they could make or break a manager wanting to be part of it.

What if the process is that the manager goes to the recruitment team and says “I need a striker desperately, we can’t buy a goal. Tony Watt would be nice” and they go “ok, here’s three but the club need an asset we could potentially grow and make money on. So here’s three 19 year old strikers. They’re raw, hence why we can afford them but they have potential (Melkersen) that we could maybe turn into something really good over the next few years, what one would you like?”

As we seen with Maloney, he ended up getting sacked whilst having to rely on Melkersen and Scott for the striker position with an average age of 20. People on here argued that he was backed because we signed Melkersen, but was he really?

[Iain G]

I've read that several times but nope, I don't understand it.

Apart from the dripping sarcasm, obvs. :greengrin

Sorry you are right and a I missed something, I meant to say:

David Marshall has final approval of the new manager that the non footballing people, appointed through nepotism and by way of paying off their excessive sunbed debt, have found through the Manager Committee...

[Hibbyradge]

The thing is, you’re talking about two separate things here. Idle speculation about why potential managers are turning us down because of the recruitment process is exactly that, speculation drummed up by lazy journalists.



That's exactly what I'm talking about and it's not just lazy journalists who are saying it.

Several posters here want us to believe that's the case and when the idiocy of the suggestion is pointed out, the goalposts are moved.

[WhileTheChief..]

The root of the problem IMO is the perception behind Ron Gordon putting his son in to a position titled "head of recruitment". The optics on that give his position much more weight than it actually holds.

Why not call it "Recruitment Co-ordinator" or something with less gravitas. It's the implication.

Yup, he's an admin guy, nothing more, nothing less.

Nowt wrong with that by the way.

You need someone to pull it all together and tell the scouts which games to go to, or the analysts which leagues / skills they've to focus on.

As long as he's really good with Excel and Outlook we don't need to worry too much.

[Hibbyradge]

Sorry you are right and a I missed something, I meant to say:

David Marshall has final approval of the new manager that the non footballing people, appointed through nepotism and by way of paying off their excessive sunbed debt, have found through the Manager Committee...

Ha ha.

What's the manager committee?

And is that the reason that all these top managers are refusing to work for us? (None of whom have been offered the job).

[Scotty Leither]

It sounds like we’re going into stats on an insanely nerdy level through this team and although there’s a time and a place for that, it doesn’t tell you even half of what you need to know.

Joe Newell rates very highly in this league for interceptions (and he’s a player I like). However when the game gets quite physical he doesn’t fare as well and tends to disappear a bit. Stats alone would show he’d be good in a position in midfield where he’s breaking up opposition play but we know that’s not his strength.

There are things about character and determination and attitude that can’t be measured and I feel that so many of our signings have been very samey, particularly in midfield.

There’s a place for all the modern stuff but there also needs to be a bit of the old school “will this player deliver when the chips are down” that I think we’re missing quite regularly.

We have lots of players who might be good with the right team mates around them but nobody to make that team gel or pick them up when we hit a setback.

Great points…strikes me the recruitment process is back to front. Surely we’re not solely relying on interrogation of scientific data being the driver of whether or not a player is suitable?

I would hope the manager and the scouts actually watch a player in the flesh over 10-12 games to make an initial judgement on them?

[Hibiza]

Nobody would give a damn about our setup if we signed decent players.

We don’t though.

We mostly sign guff, so it’s only natural that we question why. It would be mental if we didn’t.

if we have a decent window, and sign some first team starters that actually improve us, nobody will be talking about Ian Gordon or the recruitment team.
Spot on .👍

[Iain G]

Ha ha.

What's the manager committee?

And is that the reason that all these top managers are refusing to work for us? (None of whom have been offered the job).

It's the committee set up to find the new manager, and like the transfer committee, it has nobody in anyway qualified or experienced to do the job that's being asked of them, but fitba folk ken what's going oan...

[bingo70]

Sorry you are right and a I missed something, I meant to say:

David Marshall has final approval of the new manager that the non footballing people, appointed through nepotism and by way of paying off their excessive sunbed debt, have found through the Manager Committee...

David Marshall was ‘found’ by the previous manager and it was all agreed through him to sign for next year.

That’s just waiting on the new manager approving it.

I don’t see the issue there?

[Iain G]

David Marshall was ‘found’ by the previous manager and it was all agreed through him to sign for next year.

That’s just waiting on the new manager approving it.

I don’t see the issue there?

Well Sean Mahoney approved all of Ross Jack's signings so I don't see any issues with this...

[Hibbyradge]

It's the committee set up to find the new manager, and like the transfer committee, it has nobody in anyway qualified or experienced to do the job that's being asked of them, but fitba folk ken what's going oan...

Gotcha.

[Is It On....]

The recruitment process at Hibs is being used as a stick to beat Ron Gordon with and more and more top candidates being said to have turned us down because of it. Frankly, I think that's absolute nonsense.

Having a recruitment team to identify players who we can afford and who match what we are looking for, is a good system and would appeal to most managers, imo.

How is one individual manager supposed to have a good knowledge of all the players in the leagues around the UK, Europe and further afield?

I would have thought most managers would appreciate that assistance as long as they have the final say which is exactly what Hibs offer. I'm also absolutely certain that if the manager was very keen on someone who hadn't been identified by the team, that steps would be taken to bring him in.

The suggestion that someone would turn the job down because they didn't have full responsibility for identifying potential signings seems ludicrous.

Apologies to the Private members for the duplicate content.

We just need it run professionally which means having qualified people in that department. I personally would disagree with our CEO that the January window was one of the best ever. We need the right people in this department ["so you keep saying" as someone recently slapped me down] and a Head of Recruitment is one of the key appointments we need to make in the coming months; the current model with the owners son in charge of the Recruitment Department isn't the correct one. If he hasn't replaced Mathie then what is the point of him being there? And if he did replace Mathie, then the major shareholder and CEO have shown themselves remarkably restrained when other senior people, notably Ross and Maloney, have been sacked for underperforming.

A professionally run Recruitment Department using data analysis can make even a manager like Robbie Replay look competent so we need to get this fixed as soon as possible.

[Hibbyradge]

How long has Ian Gordon been in post?

[Is It On....]

How long has Ian Gordon been in post?

Longer than Shaun Maloney was.

[Hibbyradge]

Longer than Shaun Maloney was.

Yes, but how long?

[Iain G]

Longer than Shaun Maloney was.

And less time than Alex Miller was 🙃

[CapitalGreen]

Our player recruitment has been awful for long before anyone talked about recruitment committees or even knew Ron Gordon had a son called Ian.

In Summer 2018 we lost McGinn and McGeouch and replaced them with Milligan and Mallan. We spent all summer chasing Jamie McLaren only to end his loan the following January. That season we signed Nelom, Mavrias, Bigirimana, Spector, Block and Johnson - 6 players who made a combined 8 first team appearances for the club.

In summer 2019 we raided the English lower leagues for Jackson, Newell, Doidge, James, Vela, Naismith and Maxwell. Newell and Doidge after a slow start began contributing to the team but the rest will be remembered for contributing to disastrous end to Hecky’s Hibs career culminating in another 5 goals shipped at Hampden.

Summer 2020 saw us lurch away from the English lower leagues to targeting Scottish based players. Nisbet was a good acquisition and the signing of Magennis has either been dreadfully unlucky or a pricey mistake depending on your point of view. We also added Gogic, Wright, S McGinn, Cadden, Macey and Irvine who with the exception of Cadden are already long gone or will likely be on their way out this summer. The summer window culminated in us essentially announcing the signing of Ross McCrorie only to see him join our rivals Aberdeen.

Summer 2021 was spent chasing our number 1 defensive target Jamie McCart! Only for our approaches to be continually rejected by St Johnstones and ending up with 19 year old Nathan Wood who “starred” in a 3-0 home loss to Dundee Utd and was never seen again. We were close to signing Jamie McGrath but some how messed up the paper work at the deadline and he’s now since moved to Wigan, a creative midfielder of his ilk would have come in very handy this season.

[Is It On....]

Yes, but how long?

October last year year but that's not really my point. We laughed when Romanov installed his son in a senior role and this is, in my opinion, exactly the same.

Hibs [and Aberdeen] are the big underperformers this year and it's legitimate to question what has gone wrong. Our noisy neighbours have ditched the "Chief Scout and trusted agent" model to focus on the data analysis model. I hope that is still the model we are using and that this year is a blip that had been compounded by injuries. If we are moving away from the model instigated by George Craig back towards the old ways then I fear for us next season.

[CapitalGreen]

October last year year but that's not really my point. We laughed when Romanov installed his son in a senior role and this is, in my opinion, exactly the same.

Hibs [and Aberdeen] are the big underperformers this year and it's legitimate to question what has gone wrong. Our noisy neighbours have ditched the "Chief Scout and trusted agent" model to focus on the data analysis model. I hope that is still the model we are using and that this year is a blip that had been compounded by injuries. If we are moving away from the model instigated by George Craig back towards the old ways then I fear for us next season.

That is still the model being used and we have brought in more analysts since last summer. Whether that has actually working effectively for the last 5 years is a bigger issue than the over inflated job title Ron has given his son last October imo.

[Hibbyradge]

October last year year but that's not really my point. We laughed when Romanov installed his son in a senior role and this is, in my opinion, exactly the same.

Hibs [and Aberdeen] are the big underperformers this year and it's legitimate to question what has gone wrong. Our noisy neighbours have ditched the "Chief Scout and trusted agent" model to focus on the data analysis model. I hope that is still the model we are using and that this year is a blip that had been compounded by injuries. If we are moving away from the model instigated by George Craig back towards the old ways then I fear for us next season.

So he's been involved with one transfer window.

Pinning the blame on him for all Hibs woes, as lots of folk seem to be doing, is a wee bit unfair, no?

I'll be interested to see what happens with recruitment this summer.

[Unseen work]

Our player recruitment has been awful for long before anyone talked about recruitment committees or even knew Ron Gordon had a son called Ian.

In Summer 2018 we lost McGinn and McGeouch and replaced them with Milligan and Mallan. We spent all summer chasing Jamie McLaren only to end his loan the following January. That season we signed Nelom, Mavrias, Bigirimana, Spector, Block and Johnson - 6 players who made a combined 8 first team appearances for the club.

In summer 2019 we raided the English lower leagues for Jackson, Newell, Doidge, James, Vela, Naismith and Maxwell. Newell and Doidge after a slow start began contributing to the team but the rest will be remembered for contributing to disastrous end to Hecky’s Hibs career culminating in another 5 goals shipped at Hampden.

Summer 2020 saw us lurch away from the English lower leagues to targeting Scottish based players. Nisbet was a good acquisition and the signing of Magennis has either been dreadfully unlucky or a pricey mistake depending on your point of view. We also added Gogic, Wright, S McGinn, Cadden, Macey and Irvine who with the exception of Cadden are already long gone or will likely be on their way out this summer. The summer window culminated in us essentially announcing the signing of Ross McCrorie only to see him join our rivals Aberdeen.

Summer 2021 was spent chasing our number 1 defensive target Jamie McCart! Only for our approaches to be continually rejected by St Johnstones and ending up with 19 year old Nathan Wood who “starred” in a 3-0 home loss to Dundee Utd and was never seen again. We were close to signing Jamie McGrath but some how messed up the paper work at the deadline and he’s now since moved to Wigan, a creative midfielder of his ilk would have come in very handy this season.

Spot on, the agenda some have against the club is becoming mental.

[Vault Boy]

So he's been involved with one transfer window.

Pinning the blame on him for all Hibs woes, as lots of folk seem to be doing, is a wee bit unfair, no?

I'll be interested to see what happens with recruitment this summer.

October was just when he was made Head of Recruitment publicly. Ian was involved with the department for a year or so pior to that.

[Iain G]

October was just when he was made Head of Recruitment publicly. Ian was involved with the department for a year or so pior to that.

While Mathie was still heading it all up you mean?

[Baader]

Our player recruitment has been awful for long before anyone talked about recruitment committees or even knew Ron Gordon had a son called Ian.

In Summer 2018 we lost McGinn and McGeouch and replaced them with Milligan and Mallan. We spent all summer chasing Jamie McLaren only to end his loan the following January. That season we signed Nelom, Mavrias, Bigirimana, Spector, Block and Johnson - 6 players who made a combined 8 first team appearances for the club.

In summer 2019 we raided the English lower leagues for Jackson, Newell, Doidge, James, Vela, Naismith and Maxwell. Newell and Doidge after a slow start began contributing to the team but the rest will be remembered for contributing to disastrous end to Hecky’s Hibs career culminating in another 5 goals shipped at Hampden.

Summer 2020 saw us lurch away from the English lower leagues to targeting Scottish based players. Nisbet was a good acquisition and the signing of Magennis has either been dreadfully unlucky or a pricey mistake depending on your point of view. We also added Gogic, Wright, S McGinn, Cadden, Macey and Irvine who with the exception of Cadden are already long gone or will likely be on their way out this summer. The summer window culminated in us essentially announcing the signing of Ross McCrorie only to see him join our rivals Aberdeen.

Summer 2021 was spent chasing our number 1 defensive target Jamie McCart! Only for our approaches to be continually rejected by St Johnstones and ending up with 19 year old Nathan Wood who “starred” in a 3-0 home loss to Dundee Utd and was never seen again. We were close to signing Jamie McGrath but some how messed up the paper work at the deadline and he’s now since moved to Wigan, a creative midfielder of his ilk would have come in very handy this season.

Excellent post. I had to look up Darnell Johnson. No recollection of him whatsoever.

[WhileTheChief..]

Our player recruitment has been awful for long before anyone talked about recruitment committees or even knew Ron Gordon had a son called Ian.

In Summer 2018 we lost McGinn and McGeouch and replaced them with Milligan and Mallan. We spent all summer chasing Jamie McLaren only to end his loan the following January. That season we signed Nelom, Mavrias, Bigirimana, Spector, Block and Johnson - 6 players who made a combined 8 first team appearances for the club.

In summer 2019 we raided the English lower leagues for Jackson, Newell, Doidge, James, Vela, Naismith and Maxwell. Newell and Doidge after a slow start began contributing to the team but the rest will be remembered for contributing to disastrous end to Hecky’s Hibs career culminating in another 5 goals shipped at Hampden.

Summer 2020 saw us lurch away from the English lower leagues to targeting Scottish based players. Nisbet was a good acquisition and the signing of Magennis has either been dreadfully unlucky or a pricey mistake depending on your point of view. We also added Gogic, Wright, S McGinn, Cadden, Macey and Irvine who with the exception of Cadden are already long gone or will likely be on their way out this summer. The summer window culminated in us essentially announcing the signing of Ross McCrorie only to see him join our rivals Aberdeen.

Summer 2021 was spent chasing our number 1 defensive target Jamie McCart! Only for our approaches to be continually rejected by St Johnstones and ending up with 19 year old Nathan Wood who “starred” in a 3-0 home loss to Dundee Utd and was never seen again. We were close to signing Jamie McGrath but some how messed up the paper work at the deadline and he’s now since moved to Wigan, a creative midfielder of his ilk would have come in very handy this season.

Our player recruitment has been awful since before Ron Gordon had a son!

[MyJo]

Our player recruitment has been awful for long before anyone talked about recruitment committees or even knew Ron Gordon had a son called Ian.

In Summer 2018 we lost McGinn and McGeouch and replaced them with Milligan and Mallan. We spent all summer chasing Jamie McLaren only to end his loan the following January. That season we signed Nelom, Mavrias, Bigirimana, Spector, Block and Johnson - 6 players who made a combined 8 first team appearances for the club.

In summer 2019 we raided the English lower leagues for Jackson, Newell, Doidge, James, Vela, Naismith and Maxwell. Newell and Doidge after a slow start began contributing to the team but the rest will be remembered for contributing to disastrous end to Hecky’s Hibs career culminating in another 5 goals shipped at Hampden.

Summer 2020 saw us lurch away from the English lower leagues to targeting Scottish based players. Nisbet was a good acquisition and the signing of Magennis has either been dreadfully unlucky or a pricey mistake depending on your point of view. We also added Gogic, Wright, S McGinn, Cadden, Macey and Irvine who with the exception of Cadden are already long gone or will likely be on their way out this summer. The summer window culminated in us essentially announcing the signing of Ross McCrorie only to see him join our rivals Aberdeen.

Summer 2021 was spent chasing our number 1 defensive target Jamie McCart! Only for our approaches to be continually rejected by St Johnstones and ending up with 19 year old Nathan Wood who “starred” in a 3-0 home loss to Dundee Utd and was never seen again. We were close to signing Jamie McGrath but some how messed up the paper work at the deadline and he’s now since moved to Wigan, a creative midfielder of his ilk would have come in very handy this season.

Our transfer business under Mathie as a sporting director has been dire, not just in the quality of players recruited but in the way we have gone about our business.

The McRorie & McGrath fiascos were just downright embarrassing. Being turned down by players in favour of them signing for rivals like Aberdeen & Hearts.

Making a massive deal of signing a player from St Johnstone and failing. Public statements about insulting offers for players that in turn, lead the clubs to not want to deal with us.

Getting good players like Irvine, Docherty, Jackson, Naismith in on short-term or loan deals and then getting rejected after they do well and we want them on a permanent basis.

Our recruitment policy or strategy or whatever you want to call it has been mince long before Ron's son got involved.

[Brooster]

It's incredible to think that paid professionals can devise a strategy/approach/process that comes up with players like Rocky. Your average fan could get better for the same money. Vast improvement required in this area.

[Hibbyradge]

It's incredible to think that paid professionals can devise a strategy/approach/process that comes up with players like Rocky. Your average fan could get better for the same money. Vast improvement required in this area.

Well I couldn't.

I like Rocky.

[Billy Whizz]

Well I couldn't.

I like Rocky.

It’s not personal in my opinion about Rocky. There was nothing in his CV when we signed him, that said we should sign, other than Kensell got him from Norwich
He’s 23 later this year, hardly a kid

[erin go bragh]

Well something isn’t working as our recruitment in January was honking and most definitely cost us the top six and maybe a final

[CapitalGreen]

It’s not personal in my opinion about Rocky. There was nothing in his CV when we signed him, that said we should sign, other than Kensell got him from Norwich
He’s 23 later this year, hardly a kid

7 caps for the Under 21 team of the Number 1 ranked country in the world isn’t something positive on his CV to you?

[Billy Whizz]

7 caps for the Under 21 team of the Number 1 ranked country in the world isn’t something positive on his CV to you?

Over 3 years ago he last played for them
Last few years
2019/20 season -11 appearances
2020/21 season - 6 appearances
This season Hibs - 14 appearances

So we are basically signing a rookie, when we needed someone more experienced

Do you think we’ll sign him?

[bigwheel]

Over 3 years ago he last played for them
Last few years
2019/20 season -11 appearances
2020/21 season - 6 appearances
This season Hibs - 14 appearances

So we are basically signing a rookie, when we needed someone more experienced

Do you think we’ll sign him?

I hope not….looks nowhere near the right level


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Brooster]

Well I couldn't.

I like Rocky.

Do you think he's a good player and do you think we watched him before we signed him

[Iain G]

Do you think he's a good player and do you think we watched him before we signed him

I think we still had training gear for Marciano and they worked out they could save money by getting a other Rocky into the building...or maybe we watched him, maybe Maloney knew him from his Belgium days (he said he was aware of him iirc) and we got a player in who could develop?

[MikeyS]

I think we still had training gear for Marciano and they worked out they could save money by getting a other Rocky into the building...or maybe we watched him, maybe Maloney knew him from his Belgium days (he said he was aware of him iirc) and we got a player in who could develop?

I can't see much development happening in a 23 year old that still hasn't mastered passing with his feet or heading a ball.

[Iain G]

I can't see much development happening in a 23 year old that still hasn't mastered passing with his feet or heading a ball.

Sounds like one of our better players 🤣

[MikeyS]

Sounds like one of our better players 🤣

🤣🤣👍🏻

[Col2]

The recruitment process at Hibs is being used as a stick to beat Ron Gordon with and more and more top candidates being said to have turned us down because of it. Frankly, I think that's absolute nonsense.

Having a recruitment team to identify players who we can afford and who match what we are looking for, is a good system and would appeal to most managers, imo.

How is one individual manager supposed to have a good knowledge of all the players in the leagues around the UK, Europe and further afield?

I would have thought most managers would appreciate that assistance as long as they have the final say which is exactly what Hibs offer. I'm also absolutely certain that if the manager was very keen on someone who hadn't been identified by the team, that steps would be taken to bring him in.

The suggestion that someone would turn the job down because they didn't have full responsibility for identifying potential signings seems ludicrous.

Apologies to the Private members for the duplicate content.

I think we need to separate the setup/process and those involved.

Set/process - I agree it’s not exactly unusual and given the breadth of player we would be looking at it makes sense to have such resources.

Those involved - this is where we have a real issue. We have a CEO who doesn’t have any real football experience but has contacts, we have the owners son who absolutely doesn’t have the right experience and the third person is the manager who may or may not be good at identifying talented players.

Most clubs have a Director of football or sporting director who has a department who source and recommend players. But the guy at the top knows what he is doing (savage at Hearts for example). We don’t have this.

You just need to look at Hearts. They continued with John Murray as in charge of recruitment and him and Levein (who is a terrible recruiter) effectively relegated that club. Add in Stendal and it was shambolic.

They now have a decent but hardly anything more than that in Neilson but Savage has transformed player recruitment and of course they have a lot more cash.

We are in Stendal/ Murray territory.

[Nicho87]

I can’t believe we have a committee - let the manager manage.

Trying to be clever for no reason

[Iain G]

I can’t believe we have a committee - let the manager manage.

Trying to be clever for no reason

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[cameronw-hfc]

I'm sure Derek White coming in the summer will help also. Head of Football, and before anyone says, "he was a secretary" he basically done that job at Livi for secretary wage. He was a good player that never made it past pro-youth at Livi, very bright lad and good ideas. He's worked his way from running the front desk to just about everything else behind the scenes for them. Doubt he will be massively involved in player signings but as head of football he will be able to make sure we've got a working system.

A football head to help the business heads.

Ps, most teams have a committee to decide on signings. Long gone are the days where a manager scouts, negotiates and signs players. It's a club decision and they'll need the business heads (Ron, Ian and Ben) to deal with the business side, Football heads (Derek, Gaffer and Scouts) deal with the football side.

The committee is to make sure managers are fully supported, not to make it harder/take their job away, it's poor selection of signings and prep that's costing us, not a poor system. It's the same system most decent team's use, we're just not doing it as well.

[MikeyS]

I'm sure Derek White coming in the summer will help also. Head of Football, and before anyone says, "he was a secretary" he basically done that job at Livi for secretary wage. He was a good player that never made it past pro-youth at Livi, very bright lad and good ideas. He's worked his way from running the front desk to just about everything else behind the scenes for them. Doubt he will be massively involved in player signings but as head of football he will be able to make sure we've got a working system.

A football head to help the business heads.

Ps, most teams have a committee to decide on signings. Long gone are the days where a manager scouts, negotiates and signs players. It's a club decision and they'll need the business heads (Ron, Ian and Ben) to deal with the business side, Football heads (Derek, Gaffer and Scouts) deal with the football side.

The committee is to make sure managers are fully supported, not to make it harder/take their job away, it's poor selection of signings and prep that's costing us, not a poor system. It's the same system most decent team's use, we're just not doing it as well.

His job will have absolutely no link to player recruitment, he is going to be busy registering players, dealing with mat h officials, sorting travel arrangements and keeping track of all the other admin stuff. Seemed like a lot of tasks for peanuts too!

[Unseen work]

I must have missed this re Derek Whyte, where was this announced, when does he start and what specifically is his role?

[MikeyS]

I must have missed this re Derek Whyte, where was this announced, when does he start and what specifically is his role?

He has taken Finlay Stark's role. Its an admin position dealing with all things 1st team related.https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/hibs-appoint-livingston-club-secretary-23674697

[Alfred E Newman]

I must have missed this re Derek Whyte, where was this announced, when does he start and what specifically is his role?

Are you sure it’s not just a bit of rhyming slang for our recruitment team?

[Hibbyradge]

Do you think he's a good player and do you think we watched him before we signed him

I like him as a player. I have no idea if we watched him.

[ancient hibee]

I think we need to separate the setup/process and those involved.

Set/process - I agree it’s not exactly unusual and given the breadth of player we would be looking at it makes sense to have such resources.

Those involved - this is where we have a real issue. We have a CEO who doesn’t have any real football experience but has contacts, we have the owners son who absolutely doesn’t have the right experience and the third person is the manager who may or may not be good at identifying talented players.

Most clubs have a Director of football or sporting director who has a department who source and recommend players. But the guy at the top knows what he is doing (savage at Hearts for example). We don’t have this.

You just need to look at Hearts. They continued with John Murray as in charge of recruitment and him and Levein (who is a terrible recruiter) effectively relegated that club. Add in Stendal and it was shambolic.

They now have a decent but hardly anything more than that in Neilson but Savage has transformed player recruitment and of course they have a lot more cash.

We are in Stendal/ Murray territory.

So you criticise us for having "non football" people involved in recruitment and then criticise Levein,someone absolutely steeped in football at the highest level and then praise Savage,did he have a football background before he became a recruitment guru? Seems to me that there is no set "right"way .

[cameronw-hfc]

His job will have absolutely no link to player recruitment, he is going to be busy registering players, dealing with mat h officials, sorting travel arrangements and keeping track of all the other admin stuff. Seemed like a lot of tasks for peanuts too!

I don't think for a second he'll be in helping decide what players are signed, but if the recruitment system isn't working, having someone with an actual football brain behind the scenes could be a massive help. We done our best work recently with a Head of Football operations, ie, George Craig.

He wasn't in charge of identifying players or anything, but he definitely was a help behind the scenes to the likes of Leanne etc, Derek will have his hands full elsewhere yes, but having an Exec with a football head rather than a business head will be a huge step forward imo.


I must have missed this re Derek Whyte, where was this announced, when does he start and what specifically is his role?

Joins in the summer as Head of Football Operations. Same role George Craig had with us. I know him personally and can say he should be a top appointment and it's a fully deserved prokotion from his role at Livi.(secretary on paper but basically done everything admin wise in their football dept

[B.H.F.C]

I don't think for a second he'll be in helping decide what players are signed, but if the recruitment system isn't working, having someone with an actual football brain behind the scenes could be a massive help. We done our best work recently with a Head of Football operations, ie, George Craig.

He wasn't in charge of identifying players or anything, but he definitely was a help behind the scenes to the likes of Leanne etc, Derek will have his hands full elsewhere yes, but having an Exec with a football head rather than a business head will be a huge step forward imo.



Joins in the summer as Head of Football Operations. Same role George Craig had with us. I know him personally and can say he should be a top appointment and it's a fully deserved prokotion from his role at Livi.(secretary on paper but basically done everything admin wise in their football dept

The title is the same but in terms of the responsibility, I don’t think the role this guy is coming in to do looks anywhere near the same. Certainly not going by the job description and salary advertised. Craig played a major part in major football decisions, managerial appointments for example. Craig wasn’t identifying players himself but he was in charge of the departments that did, Mathie reported to him when he was Head of Player Identification or whatever they called it (before he became Sporting Director when Craig left).

[Edinburgh Green]

Our player recruitment has been awful for long before anyone talked about recruitment committees or even knew Ron Gordon had a son called Ian.

In Summer 2018 we lost McGinn and McGeouch and replaced them with Milligan and Mallan. We spent all summer chasing Jamie McLaren only to end his loan the following January. That season we signed Nelom, Mavrias, Bigirimana, Spector, Block and Johnson - 6 players who made a combined 8 first team appearances for the club.

In summer 2019 we raided the English lower leagues for Jackson, Newell, Doidge, James, Vela, Naismith and Maxwell. Newell and Doidge after a slow start began contributing to the team but the rest will be remembered for contributing to disastrous end to Hecky’s Hibs career culminating in another 5 goals shipped at Hampden.

Summer 2020 saw us lurch away from the English lower leagues to targeting Scottish based players. Nisbet was a good acquisition and the signing of Magennis has either been dreadfully unlucky or a pricey mistake depending on your point of view. We also added Gogic, Wright, S McGinn, Cadden, Macey and Irvine who with the exception of Cadden are already long gone or will likely be on their way out this summer. The summer window culminated in us essentially announcing the signing of Ross McCrorie only to see him join our rivals Aberdeen.

Summer 2021 was spent chasing our number 1 defensive target Jamie McCart! Only for our approaches to be continually rejected by St Johnstones and ending up with 19 year old Nathan Wood who “starred” in a 3-0 home loss to Dundee Utd and was never seen again. We were close to signing Jamie McGrath but some how messed up the paper work at the deadline and he’s now since moved to Wigan, a creative midfielder of his ilk would have come in very handy this season.
That’s some grim reading.

[cameronw-hfc]

The title is the same but in terms of the responsibility, I don’t think the role this guy is coming in to do looks anywhere near the same. Certainly not going by the job description and salary advertised. Craig played a major part in major football decisions, managerial appointments for example. Craig wasn’t identifying players himself but he was in charge of the departments that did, Mathie reported to him when he was Head of Player Identification or whatever they called it (before he became Sporting Director when Craig left).


He basically done Craigs role at Livi by the end. I think he's doing a slightly different job, but at the end of the day another football based head in the exec room can only be good imo.

[JimBHibees]

Presumably that’s the managers role on the committee? Should we have another football person on there to potentially undermine the manager? What happens if they disagree.

Does somebody analysing data on a player need to be a football person? IMO it’s they’re job to present the data to the football person (the manager) to make the final decision?

Same applies to the money person on this committee, if the data team and football person come to the money person, let’s say that’s Ben Kinsell, and say we want a striker, we really want this guy, can we afford him? He says no, then it’s down to the next option or they push back and explain why he’s worth the money. Does Ben Kinsell, for that role in that process, need to be a football person or would it be better for someone to have a handle on the finances?

Whole transfer committee thing has been blown way out of proportion IMO.

Totally agree with all of that however there is a difference in whether the process is right which I think it will be and how successful or otherwise it has been which it clearly hasn't been. Last two windows have been very poor in general in strengthening the first team which allowing for injuries aside has resulted in a terrible run. Why could we not for example have signed a physical striker to tide us over for last few months of the season. Obvious fix is please sign better players.

[MikeyS]

The title is the same but in terms of the responsibility, I don’t think the role this guy is coming in to do looks anywhere near the same. Certainly not going by the job description and salary advertised. Craig played a major part in major football decisions, managerial appointments for example. Craig wasn’t identifying players himself but he was in charge of the departments that did, Mathie reported to him when he was Head of Player Identification or whatever they called it (before he became Sporting Director when Craig left).

Yeah this is closer to the truth, the Americans have given an admin job a very swanky title. There is no danger this boy will have anywhere near the influence or responsibility that George Craig had for less than 30k a year.

[Brightside]

He basically done Craigs role at Livi by the end. I think he's doing a slightly different job, but at the end of the day another football based head in the exec room can only be good imo.

I’m pretty sure his role is pretty junior at Hibs tbh.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yes, I agree with all of that.

It’s also why the manager signs off on players coming into the club?

I dont think it's as black and white as that, we know previos managers have wanted certain players, but the commitee have blocked these targets for whatever reasons, i'd guess money.

They then present other targets, who the manager has to pick but probably does not want, but he has to sign somebody.

The commitee have to bring in players of a better standard that are ready for the team now, as we've just witnessed last seasons signing policy completely fail.

Of course we should be looking at the future, and some of these players might be brilliant in the future, but it was clear last season where we needed to strengthen, and we needed it done then.

And the people in charge of bringing the players to the manager, need to be able to spot quality, which recently does seem to be a problem.

[J-C]

Having a set up were players are scouted and presented to the manager who has final say is normal. Unfortunately it falls flat if the manager can't differentiate between a good or bad player. Stubbs had a great eye for a player unfortunately Heckingbottom, Ross and Maloney didn't.

[MikeyS]

Having a set up were players are scouted and presented to the manager who has final say is normal. Unfortunately it falls flat if the manager can't differentiate between a good or bad player. Stubbs had a great eye for a player unfortunately Heckingbottom, Ross and Maloney didn't.

It also is never given a chance to work in the small minded, closed shop that is Scottish Football Media. There is an endless line of numpties waiting for any "new" concept to fail.

You are right in what you say though, it does require the right people involved from the off set!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Having a set up were players are scouted and presented to the manager who has final say is normal. Unfortunately it falls flat if the manager can't differentiate between a good or bad player. Stubbs had a great eye for a player unfortunately Heckingbottom, Ross and Maloney didn't.

It also falls down if all the players presented to the manager are either crap or not suitable - for example if we need a ready made striker but the manager gets presented with 3 strikers who are ‘one for the future’ to choose from.

There’s so many different parts to the recruitment process we’ve had described to us that I think it’s really difficult for fans to say who’s not pulling their weight and what’s not working.

[Is It On....]

I think we need to separate the setup/process and those involved.

Set/process - I agree it’s not exactly unusual and given the breadth of player we would be looking at it makes sense to have such resources.

Those involved - this is where we have a real issue. We have a CEO who doesn’t have any real football experience but has contacts, we have the owners son who absolutely doesn’t have the right experience and the third person is the manager who may or may not be good at identifying talented players.

Most clubs have a Director of football or sporting director who has a department who source and recommend players. But the guy at the top knows what he is doing (savage at Hearts for example). We don’t have this.

You just need to look at Hearts. They continued with John Murray as in charge of recruitment and him and Levein (who is a terrible recruiter) effectively relegated that club. Add in Stendal and it was shambolic.

They now have a decent but hardly anything more than that in Neilson but Savage has transformed player recruitment and of course they have a lot more cash.

We are in Stendal/ Murray territory.

I 100% agree with you. My friend actually said that Levein used a "trusted agent" network in conjunction with the Chief Scout that failed miserably and was delighted with the move towards the Hibs "model" with Savage and Lancefield. Lancefield is particularly interesting given his experience at Brighton who are advocates of heavy data analysis to identify players. If we genuinely have any links with Brighton then maybe we could get someone on secondment to help improve our data analysis team.

[The Tubs]

I was thinking that, after Butcher until Lennon, they always made it explicit that we were trying to get the right type of characters into the club and it seemed to work. Who would have imagined David Gray, with his fairly unspectacular career until that point, would become so important to us?

We need to make this a priority again.