Sporting Director (whatever you want to call it)

[Alex Trager]

How can we make the club aware that on the whole the fans want someone with footballing experience representing the first team?

The club have someone with footballing experience (like him or not) as the head of the academy, so they obviously recognise the need for it in that area.

How can they miss it so wildly with regards to the first team? By all accounts, Ben and his staff are working very well on the commercial side, but it’s plain to see that on the footballing side its not.

Even if I am accused of knee-jerking based on one season, we have experienced the benefits of having a team between the first team coach and the board before. We can see how well it is working at Hearts, who no doubt looked at us and thought, ‘aye that works, that’ll stop us haemorrhaging money on guff’ one or two windows later and they’re miles ahead.

As I said, I could not care what the role is called but I think it is vital that there is experience in there.

It seems that Ron is trying to upgrade every position in the club, except from Mathie.

I have read on here a few times that the fans were pivotal in getting this type of system implemented last time and Petrie listened to the desires.

Two years after, we win the Scottish cup.

Of course there were multiple failings at the club, and I think the first couple of years when Stubbs was here was when the approach was at its strongest. There was a clear strategy which subsequently changed under the new incoming managers, which is not what is desired.

So there is learning to be done, but that is fine. I felt generally we were headed in the right direction. I don’t have an issue with upgrading the staff, so long as the qualifications required remain and of course the position remains.

I believe KP is still a fan rep, so it would be brilliant if he could put this on his pad until it is signed sealed and delivered! Obviously it is too much to put onto KP’s shoulders so are there any other options for getting through to Ron?

Is there another fan rep?
Are there fans on the board who are contactable?
Is Ron contactable?

Are there other suggestions?

I appreciate this is discussed probably hourly but I thought it would be worth creating its own thread.

[Heisenberg]

Fully agree. We’ve gone back to the pre Dempster model and it already looks like a total mess. Ben Kensell has never worked in the position he’s in, same for Ian Gordon. It shows.

Fair to say we had some failings under George Craig but nothing this bad in terms of squad building and what we’re seeing on the park.

[oneone73]

How can we make the club aware that on the whole the fans want someone with footballing experience representing the first team?

The club have someone with footballing experience (like him or not) as the head of the academy, so they obviously recognise the need for it in that area.

How can they miss it so wildly with regards to the first team? By all accounts, Ben and his staff are working very well on the commercial side, but it’s plain to see that on the footballing side its not.

Even if I am accused of knee-jerking based on one season, we have experienced the benefits of having a team between the first team coach and the board before. We can see how well it is working at Hearts, who no doubt looked at us and thought, ‘aye that works, that’ll stop us haemorrhaging money on guff’ one or two windows later and they’re miles ahead.

As I said, I could not care what the role is called but I think it is vital that there is experience in there.

It seems that Ron is trying to upgrade every position in the club, except from Mathie.

I have read on here a few times that the fans were pivotal in getting this type of system implemented last time and Petrie listened to the desires.

Two years after, we win the Scottish cup.

Of course there were multiple failings at the club, and I think the first couple of years when Stubbs was here was when the approach was at its strongest. There was a clear strategy which subsequently changed under the new incoming managers, which is not what is desired.

So there is learning to be done, but that is fine. I felt generally we were headed in the right direction. I don’t have an issue with upgrading the staff, so long as the qualifications required remain and of course the position remains.

I believe KP is still a fan rep, so it would be brilliant if he could put this on his pad until it is signed sealed and delivered! Obviously it is too much to put onto KP’s shoulders so are there any other options for getting through to Ron?

Is there another fan rep?
Are there fans on the board who are contactable?
Is Ron contactable?

Are there other suggestions?

I appreciate this is discussed probably hourly but I thought it would be worth creating its own thread.

KP is SLO, he isn't on the board. Another one to be chalked down to Ron Gordon.

[tonyrougier123]

Allan Stubbs DOF.
Confidence ,knows the club ,can deflect criticism.
I suggested him above maloney might’ve helped guide him a bit in his first job,not saying it would’ve worked but might’ve.and would’ve been hibs AF.

[Alex Trager]

KP is SLO, he isn't on the board. Another one to be chalked down to Ron Gordon.

Are there any other possible solutions then?

[HendoDelivered]

Burrows from Motherwell would be my choice to replace Kensell. Someone who has a clue!

[JimBHibees]

Burrows from Motherwell would be my choice to replace Kensell. Someone who has a clue!

He is a Motherwell fan though.

[GreenCastle]

He is a Motherwell fan though.

LD was a Rangers fan.

Ben supports Shrewsbury or something like that.

I’ve said before I doubt Ben and Ron are even aware of what happened during the relegation years / why we failed then.

They are making many of same mistakes. They don’t understand the landscape and what’s needed to do well in Scottish football.

I would appoint Burrows 100% to do the daily stuff linking with fans and improve media output etc.

Ben can do the commercial stuff.

Appoint someone to over see the football department.

[Alex Trager]

How do we get this through to the owner though?

This is imperative

[munchar]

Are there any other possible solutions then?

Pat Nevin. Wealth of experience, loads of contacts, Hibs fan, knows the difference between quality players & mediocre.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Pat Nevin. Wealth of experience, loads of contacts, Hibs fan, knows the difference between quality players & mediocre.

I just went to have a look at what Nevin has done since he retired. I noticed he’s Terry Butchers cousin. That’s him ruled out :greengrin

[RIP]

The board is made up of Hibs fans, and they go to games and must be suffering as much if not more than we are.

Brian Houston was the director rep on the ‘Vision’ team that helped convince Rod and his fellow directors of the need for change.

Trust me, Ben is at the forefront of some imaginative money generating initiatives that will see a significant uplift in our income. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have been discussing with fellow fans that a meeting of the ‘Hibernian Family’ is what’s needed. We held these gatherings several times in the Lindsay/Hyland/Dempster eras and invited reps from the Board/ Shareholders/ HSA/Historical Trust/ Foundation/ Academy/ Leith Lynx / Net/ Bounce and Ultras.

We have a rich seam of talented, intelligent, articulate fans who have experience of a wide range of businesses. Bringing them all together will bring unity and have us all pulling in the same direction when the going is tough.

This is our club and these guys are learning the hard way how to run a football club. It’s time to step forward with reinforcements.

[leith lynx]

This is where Ron Gordon has made a massive mistake in ignoring the need for a proper director of football, somebody who has worked at the coal face, respects and values the football club, somebody such as a Pat Nevin or John Collins who can report back to Ron Gordon, to recommend a suitable coach to manage the playing squad and take us forward. It honestly makes me cringe with embarrassment to think that Ben Kensall and Ian Gordon were sent on a jolly down south, representing Hibernian football club, trying to sell the job to lower English league failures, Ron Gordon might as well phoned up a sporting agency down there to fill the void, we are badly lacking proper football guidence at the top.

[JimBHibees]

I just went to have a look at what Nevin has done since he retired. I noticed he’s Terry Butchers cousin. That’s him ruled out :greengrin

Didnt know that seems a bit bizarre

[Alex Trager]

The board is made up of Hibs fans, and they go to games and must be suffering as much if not more than we are.

Brian Houston was the director rep on the ‘Vision’ team that helped convince Rod and his fellow directors of the need for change.

Trust me, Ben is at the forefront of some imaginative money generating initiatives that will see a significant uplift in our income. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have been discussing with fellow fans that a meeting of the ‘Hibernian Family’ is what’s needed. We held these gatherings several times in the Lindsay/Hyland/Dempster eras and invited reps from the Board/ Shareholders/ HSA/Historical Trust/ Foundation/ Academy/ Net/ Bounce and Ultras.

We have a rich seam of talented, intelligent, articulate fans who have experience of a wide range of businesses. Bringing them all together will bring unity and have us all pulling in the same direction when the going is tough.

This is our club and these guys are learning the hard way how to run a football club. It’s time to step forward with reinforcements.

This is what I mean.

I don’t want Kensell gone, I think he is doing good things commercially.

I want someone with experience of the game in charge of the whole first team department.

All of what you say is brilliant.

How do we get this to happen? It must happen in my opinion to stop the slide.

I am looking for practical ways to bridge this gap

[ads913]

Allan Stubbs DOF.
Confidence ,knows the club ,can deflect criticism.
I suggested him above maloney might’ve helped guide him a bit in his first job,not saying it would’ve worked but might’ve.and would’ve been hibs AF.

Bring the man back along with his original team. He brought back hibs from death the last time.

[GreenCastle]

The board is made up of Hibs fans, and they go to games and must be suffering as much if not more than we are.

Brian Houston was the director rep on the ‘Vision’ team that helped convince Rod and his fellow directors of the need for change.

Trust me, Ben is at the forefront of some imaginative money generating initiatives that will see a significant uplift in our income. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have been discussing with fellow fans that a meeting of the ‘Hibernian Family’ is what’s needed. We held these gatherings several times in the Lindsay/Hyland/Dempster eras and invited reps from the Board/ Shareholders/ HSA/Historical Trust/ Foundation/ Academy/ Net/ Bounce and Ultras.

We have a rich seam of talented, intelligent, articulate fans who have experience of a wide range of businesses. Bringing them all together will bring unity and have us all pulling in the same direction when the going is tough.

This is our club and these guys are learning the hard way how to run a football club. It’s time to step forward with reinforcements.

Good post and making something the Fans rep can feedback.

Feels like clear the air talks needed and a reset button required come next season. But giving fans hope that things will improve with short term targets.

All feels disjointed right now.

[Just_Jimmy]

I think for a club like hibs, where staff turnover is high, including players and managers,it's more important to have the correct structure.

Dempster talked about a set up where the head coach was recruited on how they would fit the system which should bring continuity.

That way you're acquiring and developing players and the coach slots in, contributes then moves on with minimal disruption.

This worked from Stubbs to lennon. Then fell apart because we let lennon become bigger than the role in the way he acted.

We then seemed to move away. The recruitment under Stubbs was the best I can remember in modern times (without TV money). We need to get back to that.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

How do we get this through to the owner though?

This is imperative

We could paint it in big letters on the side of the stadium.

"DONT FIX WHAT WASN'T BROKEN"

[Alex Trager]

We could paint it in big letters on the side of the stadium.

"DONT FIX WHAT WASN'T BROKEN"

This could work!

But then they may ask, ‘what thing?’

[MyJo]

We could paint it in big letters on the side of the stadium.

"DONT FIX WHAT WASN'T BROKEN"

I think the problem is that the structure in itself wasn't broken but Mathie in the sporting director role wasn't performing as well as we wanted.

The last couple of transfer windows he presided over were very poor leading to some embarrassing situations for RG and the club such as the McRorie deal while his grandstanding over the fee we were going to demand for Doig, going as far as to insult some of the clubs showing an interest in the press very likely lost the club money.

I think RG has reacted to this by restructuring things behind the scenes and ultimately removing Mathie's role in the structure as a way to fix these problems rather than simply replacing Mathie.

I don't think anything RG has done since he took over has been malicious or underhand. He is genuinely trying to do the best thing for the club but we need to remember this is all new to him, he's still learning and with that there will be mistakes made. The positive for me is that he recognises when a mistake has been made and isn't afraid to take it on the chin and both admit it and fix it.

He's been burned by an underperforming sporting director he inherited and moved to put the responsibilities of that role in the hands of people he trusts instead - unfortunately those people aren't football people because he doesn't have the background or network within the game yet.

I think he will need to be convinced of the benefits of having a director overseeing the footballing side of the business again but I believe he is reasonable and if he can be persuaded it's the best way for us to move forward then its something he would consider.

[RIP]

This is what I mean. All of what you say is brilliant. How do we get this to happen? I am looking for practical ways to bridge this gap.

How do we get this through to the owner though? This is imperative


Good post and making something the Fans rep can feedback. Feels like clear the air talks needed and a reset button required come next season. But giving fans hope that things will improve with short term targets. All feels disjointed right now.

Gents, we need a more emphatic and strategic action that dumping all our expectaions on the SLO. Keiran would participate of course, he's an active role holder in the Hibs Family.

What I did a decade ago was wrote a short 'Unity' paper and requested a meeting with Fife Hyland. To his credit he accepted. I invited a nucleus of activists and when that sequence of meetings started to bear fruit, we expanded the attendees from the list of groups cited in my post. With the backing of Fife, Scott Lindsay and David Forsyth this movement grew into Let's Work Together. And it was LWT that created good initiatives such as the fan-led ST renewal line, flag cabinets for H12M / Sect43, ideas for IT systems, new player tours and the structural changes proposed by the Vision working group amongst others.

Alex, hit me up with a PM if you want to discuss further

[Jones28]

I think the problem is that the structure in itself wasn't broken but Mathie in the sporting director role wasn't performing as well as we wanted.

The last couple of transfer windows he presided over were very poor leading to some embarrassing situations for RG and the club such as the McRorie deal while his grandstanding over the fee we were going to demand for Doig, going as far as to insult some of the clubs showing an interest in the press very likely lost the club money.

I think RG has reacted to this by restructuring things behind the scenes and ultimately removing Mathie's role in the structure as a way to fix these problems rather than simply replacing Mathie.

I don't think anything RG has done since he took over has been malicious or underhand. He is genuinely trying to do the best thing for the club but we need to remember this is all new to him, he's still learning and with that there will be mistakes made. The positive for me is that he recognises when a mistake has been made and isn't afraid to take it on the chin and both admit it and fix it.

He's been burned by an underperforming sporting director he inherited and moved to put the responsibilities of that role in the hands of people he trusts instead - unfortunately those people aren't football people because he doesn't have the background or network within the game yet.

I think he will need to be convinced of the benefits of having a director overseeing the footballing side of the business again but I believe he is reasonable and if he can be persuaded it's the best way for us to move forward then its something he would consider.

All decent points, but WHY did he feel it wasn't working?

I actually think Mathies posturing over breaking the clubs transfer fee is the root of our issues this season. Whatever he'd have had for Doig would have been a huge help in the summer recruitment. He over valued him, no takers for the price he quoted and then there's nothing left to bring in anyone apart from 2 awful loan deals.

He may well recognise his mistakes, will he recognise the old system with a DOF in place was working - it was the wrong person in the job at the time.

FWIW Mathie was doing a good job, **** knows what happened. Ego?

[A Hi-Bee]

How can we make the club aware that on the whole the fans want someone with footballing experience representing the first team?

The club have someone with footballing experience (like him or not) as the head of the academy, so they obviously recognise the need for it in that area.

How can they miss it so wildly with regards to the first team? By all accounts, Ben and his staff are working very well on the commercial side, but it’s plain to see that on the footballing side its not.

Even if I am accused of knee-jerking based on one season, we have experienced the benefits of having a team between the first team coach and the board before. We can see how well it is working at Hearts, who no doubt looked at us and thought, ‘aye that works, that’ll stop us haemorrhaging money on guff’ one or two windows later and they’re miles ahead.

As I said, I could not care what the role is called but I think it is vital that there is experience in there.

It seems that Ron is trying to upgrade every position in the club, except from Mathie.

I have read on here a few times that the fans were pivotal in getting this type of system implemented last time and Petrie listened to the desires.

Two years after, we win the Scottish cup.

Of course there were multiple failings at the club, and I think the first couple of years when Stubbs was here was when the approach was at its strongest. There was a clear strategy which subsequently changed under the new incoming managers, which is not what is desired.

So there is learning to be done, but that is fine. I felt generally we were headed in the right direction. I don’t have an issue with upgrading the staff, so long as the qualifications required remain and of course the position remains.

I believe KP is still a fan rep, so it would be brilliant if he could put this on his pad until it is signed sealed and delivered! Obviously it is too much to put onto KP’s shoulders so are there any other options for getting through to Ron?

Is there another fan rep?
Are there fans on the board who are contactable?
Is Ron contactable?

Are there other suggestions?

I appreciate this is discussed probably hourly but I thought it would be worth creating its own thread.

John Collins would be the man for this, but would the new manager want to work with him interesting position very much required, if this club is to move forward on the playing side.

[MyJo]

All decent points, but WHY did he feel it wasn't working?

I actually think Mathies posturing over breaking the clubs transfer fee is the root of our issues this season. Whatever he'd have had for Doig would have been a huge help in the summer recruitment. He over valued him, no takers for the price he quoted and then there's nothing left to bring in anyone apart from 2 awful loan deals.

He may well recognise his mistakes, will he recognise the old system with a DOF in place was working - it was the wrong person in the job at the time.

FWIW Mathie was doing a good job, **** knows what happened. Ego?

The handling of interest in Doig and Nisbet seemed to actually put teams off bidding for them rather than encouraging them to pay more. When our whole set up is about developing players in order to sell them on for a profit acting like that and making us look unreasonable and difficult to deal with isn't helpful. And like you say had we got £6-7m in transfer fees for Doig, Nisbet & Boyle how much better a position could we be in now?

I seem to remember repeatedly hearing about us targeting players only for talks to break down or they then go on to sign for direct Rivals like Hearts or Aberdeen or the failure to sign McGrath because of paperwork issues.

In the case of McRorie he must have given RG assurances that it was signed and sealed for him to go out in the media to openly talk about it, only for him to look really stupid when he went to Aberdeen.

The players we signed under Mathie over the last two years have, by and large been a massive disappointment.

Murphy - constantly injured
Mackay - loaned out
Doyle-Hayes - Decent but inconsistent and similar to what we already had
Tait - Hasn't kicked a ball for us yet
Mueller - hugely disappointing
Scott - poor
Wood - poor
Wright - poor
S McGinn - poor
Magennis - Decent but made of glass
Irvine - Good player, really improved us but only short term and couldn't convince him to stay
Barnes - poor

The only successful ones have been Gogic but he has since been moved on. Nisbet, Macey and Cadden.

I think Mathie wasn't doing a great job overall. Put the club and RG personally in some awkward and embarrassing scenarios, failed to capitalise on our sellable assets and improve the playing squad and there seemed to be a clash of personalities there if rumours are to be believed.

[Northernhibee]

Alan Stubbs. Knows the game up here, had a good eye for a player, fan favourite.

Also going by his work life balance comments I wonder if it’d be something Mowbray might be interested in. Less direct involvement on the training pitch.

[andrew70]

Fully endorse John Collins for this.

[Jones28]

The handling of interest in Doig and Nisbet seemed to actually put teams off bidding for them rather than encouraging them to pay more. When our whole set up is about developing players in order to sell them on for a profit acting like that and making us look unreasonable and difficult to deal with isn't helpful. And like you say had we got £6-7m in transfer fees for Doig, Nisbet & Boyle how much better a position could we be in now?

I seem to remember repeatedly hearing about us targeting players only for talks to break down or they then go on to sign for direct Rivals like Hearts or Aberdeen or the failure to sign McGrath because of paperwork issues.

In the case of McRorie he must have given RG assurances that it was signed and sealed for him to go out in the media to openly talk about it, only for him to look really stupid when he went to Aberdeen.

The players we signed under Mathie over the last two years have, by and large been a massive disappointment.

Murphy - constantly injured
Mackay - loaned out
Doyle-Hayes - Decent but inconsistent and similar to what we already had
Tait - Hasn't kicked a ball for us yet
Mueller - hugely disappointing
Scott - poor
Wood - poor
Wright - poor
S McGinn - poor
Magennis - Decent but made of glass
Irvine - Good player, really improved us but only short term and couldn't convince him to stay
Barnes - poor

The only successful ones have been Gogic but he has since been moved on. Nisbet, Macey and Cadden.

I think Mathie wasn't doing a great job overall. Put the club and RG personally in some awkward and embarrassing scenarios, failed to capitalise on our sellable assets and improve the playing squad and there seemed to be a clash of personalities there if rumours are to be believed.

Actually yeah, looking at this it's not a great record. Lots of let downs and really poor regarding Mcrorie and McGrath.

[snedzuk]

I just went to have a look at what Nevin has done since he retired. I noticed he’s Terry Butchers cousin. That’s him ruled out :greengrin

Being Terry Butchers cousin takes away the fear of finding out you might be Terry Butchers cousin.

[Alex Trager]

I cannot help but feel this should be reintroduced at this point.

It seems to me that the club does not have the correct level of experience in the building, behind the scenes in the footballing department.

It seems BK is doing a really good job with regards to the commercial side of things, so for me, he needs to bring in an experienced head to deal with the footballing department.

Hopefully the benefits would be two fold for him: he can focus on doing what he is good at and bringing success to the club with; someone takes the heat off him and does a good job on the footballing side of things.

[Alex Trager]

The board is made up of Hibs fans, and they go to games and must be suffering as much if not more than we are.

Brian Houston was the director rep on the ‘Vision’ team that helped convince Rod and his fellow directors of the need for change.

Trust me, Ben is at the forefront of some imaginative money generating initiatives that will see a significant uplift in our income. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have been discussing with fellow fans that a meeting of the ‘Hibernian Family’ is what’s needed. We held these gatherings several times in the Lindsay/Hyland/Dempster eras and invited reps from the Board/ Shareholders/ HSA/Historical Trust/ Foundation/ Academy/ Leith Lynx / Net/ Bounce and Ultras.

We have a rich seam of talented, intelligent, articulate fans who have experience of a wide range of businesses. Bringing them all together will bring unity and have us all pulling in the same direction when the going is tough.

This is our club and these guys are learning the hard way how to run a football club. It’s time to step forward with reinforcements.
Hi RIP.

I tried to get through to you when I originally posted this vis private message, but not sure if you seen it.

Check your pms please mate

[worcesterhibby]

This "system" under Leeann with Stubbs in charge is one that had is stuck in the Championship for 3 seasons. In Stubbs last season in charge we came 3rd behind falkirk. We lost or drew to Championship standard sides 15 times out of 36 matches...not in the first 4 games he was in charge with a whole bunch of new players unavailable...he lost or drew 15 times against championship sides when he had already been in the job for a year and had brought in a host of players we seem to believe are better that what we currently have.

I'm all for analysing what is wrong with the club at the moment and trying to find a solution to ensure we see some more attacking, winning football, but let's not re-write history. Without the Cup win, Stubbs team had under achieved for 2 years and failed to prove they were a better side than falkirk over the long haul.

[bigwheel]

This "system" under Leeann with Stubbs in charge is one that had is stuck in the Championship for 3 seasons. In Stubbs last season in charge we came 3rd behind falkirk. We lost or drew to Championship standard sides 15 times out of 36 matches...not in the first 4 games he was in charge with a whole bunch of new players unavailable...he lost or drew 15 times against championship sides when he had already been in the job for a year and had brought in a host of players we seem to believe are better that what we currently have.

I'm all for analysing what is wrong with the club at the moment and trying to find a solution to ensure we see some more attacking, winning football, but let's not re-write history. Without the Cup win, Stubbs team had under achieved for 2 years and failed to prove they were a better side than falkirk over the long haul.

It’s an unbalanced view this . Without evening talking about the first two season in the championship and the quality of the opposition we had . In the third season we came as close to winning the cup double that we ever have. We did win the holy grail. Our football was often fun to watch too. The next two years the “structure” not only had us win the league it also recorded a great performance in the top league . It was also still in place when we secured third with JR.

[LewysGot2]

This "system" under Leeann with Stubbs in charge is one that had is stuck in the Championship for 3 seasons. In Stubbs last season in charge we came 3rd behind falkirk. We lost or drew to Championship standard sides 15 times out of 36 matches...not in the first 4 games he was in charge with a whole bunch of new players unavailable...he lost or drew 15 times against championship sides when he had already been in the job for a year and had brought in a host of players we seem to believe are better that what we currently have.

I'm all for analysing what is wrong with the club at the moment and trying to find a solution to ensure we see some more attacking, winning football, but let's not re-write history. Without the Cup win, Stubbs team had under achieved for 2 years and failed to prove they were a better side than falkirk over the long haul.

A season where we had to build from scratch after a play off relegation at a time where The Rangers and the Noisy Neighbours were also in the Championship we were always going to be up against it trying to get out and then, with The Rangers - on a far higher budget - also failing to get out at the first time of asking it was similarly not straightforward the following season.

Let’s not lose all context.

[Nicho87]

As disappointing some results were under Stubbs, he got hibs and we took to him fairly quickly i think

His teams were attacking and we tried to play football in an entertaining manner.

Bought terrific young Scottish players also.

Weirdly, apart from the obvious game and highlight

Stubbs era was generally entertaining

Legend

[Danderhall Hibs]

So we want someone in a new role that's experienced in the role and the favourite is John Collins - whose never done the DoF role beofre?

[Pretty Boy]

This "system" under Leeann with Stubbs in charge is one that had is stuck in the Championship for 3 seasons. In Stubbs last season in charge we came 3rd behind falkirk. We lost or drew to Championship standard sides 15 times out of 36 matches...not in the first 4 games he was in charge with a whole bunch of new players unavailable...he lost or drew 15 times against championship sides when he had already been in the job for a year and had brought in a host of players we seem to believe are better that what we currently have.

I'm all for analysing what is wrong with the club at the moment and trying to find a solution to ensure we see some more attacking, winning football, but let's not re-write history. Without the Cup win, Stubbs team had under achieved for 2 years and failed to prove they were a better side than falkirk over the long haul.

That's selective to fit your narrative though.

Just after Christmas we were 2 points behind Rangers in the league and Stubbs, regrettably imo, said we were aiming to win a treble. We lost at Ibrox on 28th December but then went 6 unbeaten and kept ourselves in touch.

Unfortunately this preceded then coincided with us playing an insane number of games and we tailed off badly. From late February we played:

24th Feb
27th Feb
1st March
6th March
13th March
16th March
19th March

That's 7 games in 24 days or another way a game every 3 and a half days. We followed that up by playing:

2nd April
5th April
9th April
12th April
16th April
20th April
23rd April
26th April

That's an even worse 8 games in 24 days. A game every 3 days.

Squads with the ability to rotate regularly would have struggled to maintain any kind of form with that schedule. Worth bearing in mind some great results fell into that period. The come from behind draw at Tynecastle, wining the replay, beating Rangers at ER, Beating ICT away in the cup, beating Dundee Utd in the Scottish Cup semi final.

Everyone was disappointed with the league campaign that year but there was so many reasons for our tailing off. We were a far better side than Falkirk that year but were fighting on 3 fronts to the very end.

[worcesterhibby]

That's selective to fit your narrative though.

Just after Christmas we were 2 points behind Rangers in the league and Stubbs, regrettably imo, said we were aiming to win a treble. We lost at Ibrox on 28th December but then went 6 unbeaten and kept ourselves in touch.

Unfortunately this preceded then coincided with us playing an insane number of games and we tailed off badly. From late February we played:

24th Feb
27th Feb
1st March
6th March
13th March
16th March
19th March

That's 7 games in 24 days or another way a game every 3 and a half days. We followed that up by playing:

2nd April
5th April
9th April
12th April
16th April
20th April
23rd April
26th April

That's an even worse 8 games in 24 days. A game every 3 days.

Squads with the ability to rotate regularly would have struggled to maintain any kind of form with that schedule. Worth bearing in mind some great results fell into that period. The come from behind draw at Tynecastle, wining the replay, beating Rangers at ER, Beating ICT away in the cup, beating Dundee Utd in the Scottish Cup semi final.

Everyone was disappointed with the league campaign that year but there was so many reasons for our tailing off. We were a far better side than Falkirk that year but were fighting on 3 fronts to the very end.

Absolutely. I take your point. I'm in no way against looking to introduce a director of football role.. Leeann certainly did a lot of things right (outside of the commercial operation which was to be honest a fiasco) and her and Stubbs did a pretty decent job of fostering a "Hibernian family" feel to the club. I just get very frustrated that our new manager is getting pelters for a couple of results that were fairly standard fair under our most loved manager of recent years, particularly as he has had zip all time to get them playing how he wants and hardly any of the new signings can play.

[Alex Trager]

This "system" under Leeann with Stubbs in charge is one that had is stuck in the Championship for 3 seasons. In Stubbs last season in charge we came 3rd behind falkirk. We lost or drew to Championship standard sides 15 times out of 36 matches...not in the first 4 games he was in charge with a whole bunch of new players unavailable...he lost or drew 15 times against championship sides when he had already been in the job for a year and had brought in a host of players we seem to believe are better that what we currently have.

I'm all for analysing what is wrong with the club at the moment and trying to find a solution to ensure we see some more attacking, winning football, but let's not re-write history. Without the Cup win, Stubbs team had under achieved for 2 years and failed to prove they were a better side than falkirk over the long haul.

That says to me, if we are only taking what you are saying as the situation that unfolded (fwiw I agree with you re the league performance) that we needed better people behind the scenes, rather than not having these people there.

RG talks about upgrading people all the time. If we take that at face value, why did he not upgrade Mathie, instead of getting rid of the position altogether.

[Alex Trager]

Absolutely. I take your point. I'm in no way against looking to introduce a director of football role.. Leeann certainly did a lot of things right (outside of the commercial operation which was to be honest a fiasco) and her and Stubbs did a pretty decent job of fostering a "Hibernian family" feel to the club. I just get very frustrated that our new manager is getting pelters for a couple of results that were fairly standard fair under our most loved manager of recent years, particularly as he has had zip all time to get them playing how he wants and hardly any of the new signings can play.
Fwiw mate, my post and the logic behind this thread is in no way aimed at LJ.

This is at the structure of the club, perhaps more so, the personnel.

I wouldn’t be too bothered about the structure, if the people in place were experienced and successful (to a degree that would enable them to come to Hibs, I’m not looking for the Liverpool DoF).

[Waxy]

Absolutely here.Rudderless ship at the moment.

[Pretty Boy]

Absolutely. I take your point. I'm in no way against looking to introduce a director of football role.. Leeann certainly did a lot of things right (outside of the commercial operation which was to be honest a fiasco) and her and Stubbs did a pretty decent job of fostering a "Hibernian family" feel to the club. I just get very frustrated that our new manager is getting pelters for a couple of results that were fairly standard fair under our most loved manager of recent years, particularly as he has had zip all time to get them playing how he wants and hardly any of the new signings can play.

I honestly don't understand the manager being in the firing line at all tbh. I like him and he has my full backing as it stands.

For me the issue is structural on the football side. Not even the entire footbal side either, I think Kean is doing a lot of good work in his role. It needs someone to pull it altogether though and until that happens I foresee a situation whereby managers are almost always under pressure because the environment to do their best work doesn't really exist.

It's probably my real frustration with Gordon et al. They are evidently doing a lot of good stuff commercially and logistically but until the football side is coherent and starts delivering it's never going to all fall into place. It needs an honest appraisal of the failings and changes to be made to allow a man who i genuinely believe to be a good manager to succeed. I fear without that we will be having a very similar conversation in 6 and 12 months time.

[IanM]

How do we get this through to the owner though?

This is imperative

Start a podcast
Become a Ron ‘fanboy’
Skirt round asking important questions

Seems to work

[CropleyWasGod]

Start a podcast
Become a Ron ‘fanboy’
Skirt round asking important questions

Seems to work

What questions were skirted around?

[BroxburnHibee]

I honestly don't understand the manager being in the firing line at all tbh. I like him and he has my full backing as it stands.

For me the issue is structural on the football side. Not even the entire footbal side either, I think Kean is doing a lot of good work in his role. It needs someone to pull it altogether though and until that happens I foresee a situation whereby managers are almost always under pressure because the environment to do their best work doesn't really exist.

It's probably my real frustration with Gordon et al. They are evidently doing a lot of good stuff commercially and logistically but until the football side is coherent and starts delivering it's never going to all fall into place. It needs an honest appraisal of the failings and changes to be made to allow a man who i genuinely believe to be a good manager to succeed. I fear without that we will be having a very similar conversation in 6 and 12 months time.

This where I am with it. Until this 'system' of recruitment changes then we're gonna keep going round in circles.

6, 12 months will just become 18, 24, 30, 36........

[Vault Boy]

Start a podcast
Become a Ron ‘fanboy’
Skirt round asking important questions

Seems to work

What absolute nonsense.

I asked him directly if he’d appoint a sporting director because there are first timers in the football ops positions.

Multiple podcasters are very critical of the current stewardship. It’s nothing to do with being a fanboy and everything to do with having an audience. That’s why invites are sent. You should take the tin foil hat off when it’s storming outside btw.

[Pretty Boy]

Start a podcast
Become a Ron ‘fanboy’
Skirt round asking important questions

Seems to work

Totally unfair.

I know at least 3 of the guys who appeared yesterday to varying degrees and have exchanged messages with most of the others. Whilst they all hold different viewpoints about the way the club is being run even the most positive isn't a 'fanboy'. I had the opportunity to be involved myself but was unable to due to work commitments and I've hardly been singing the praises of Ron in recent weeks and months.

Fwiw none of the questions asked were screened beforehand and I thought there were a few clear signs of frustration and annoyance from RG around questions he didn't like. Some of his answers were decent, others I felt he skirted the issue or failed to really read the room but that group format is never going to allow every point to be pressed too far.

These guys aren't professional journos and did a decent job to ask a mix of questions in a respectful but challenging manner.

[Scottie]

Absolutely here.Rudderless ship at the moment.
:titanic: :wink:

[keep the faith]

Pat Nevin. Wealth of experience, loads of contacts, Hibs fan, knows the difference between quality players & mediocre.

Great call. Pat is a smart guy and knows the game inside out.

[overdrive]

So we want someone in a new role that's experienced in the role and the favourite is John Collins - whose never done the DoF role beofre?

He has. At Livi when Hughes was their manager. I don’t want him though as he failed in that role too.

[Numptie]

You can see Pat on 12 August speaking about his book - Pat Nevin – The Accidental Footballer. I like the way he speaks about football, and music, and although he was at Motherwell when they went bust, as Chief Executive he gave John Boyle 3 options on how to spend his millions - Boyle chose to splash the cash, rather than to have a long term financial plan. And Motherwell went into administration.

[IanM]

What absolute nonsense.

I asked him directly if he’d appoint a sporting director because there are first timers in the football ops positions.

Multiple podcasters are very critical of the current stewardship. It’s nothing to do with being a fanboy and everything to do with having an audience. That’s why invites are sent. You should take the tin foil hat off when it’s storming outside btw.

😂 sorry, was just being wide.. Listened to the cast, let’s hope you’re still not asking the same questions in another few months time.

My attempt at Friday bantz has ended

[MWHIBBIES]

This "system" under Leeann with Stubbs in charge is one that had is stuck in the Championship for 3 seasons. In Stubbs last season in charge we came 3rd behind falkirk. We lost or drew to Championship standard sides 15 times out of 36 matches...not in the first 4 games he was in charge with a whole bunch of new players unavailable...he lost or drew 15 times against championship sides when he had already been in the job for a year and had brought in a host of players we seem to believe are better that what we currently have.

I'm all for analysing what is wrong with the club at the moment and trying to find a solution to ensure we see some more attacking, winning football, but let's not re-write history. Without the Cup win, Stubbs team had under achieved for 2 years and failed to prove they were a better side than falkirk over the long haul.

Stubbs side were miles better than Falkirk. Hence why we won a Scottish cup while they achieved nothing. The refs giving them the playoff and injuries hurting our league campaign don't change that. We won the Scottish cup. We took on everyone, battled and played to win every match and were the first Hibs side ever to reach both cup finals in a season.

It's pathetic folk remember them for finishing behind Falkirk on goal difference.

[worcesterhibby]

Stubbs side were miles better than Falkirk. Hence why we won a Scottish cup while they achieved nothing. The refs giving them the playoff and injuries hurting our league campaign don't change that. We won the Scottish cup. We took on everyone, battled and played to win every match and were the first Hibs side ever to reach both cup finals in a season.

It's pathetic folk remember them for finishing behind Falkirk on goal difference.

Mate I loved the Stubbs side and I wasn't meaning my post to demean the time that he was out manager...It was more of an attempt to point out that even good Hibs sides, who we loved, regularly drew with teams like Morton and lost to falkirk..I was attempting to ask for the current management to be given time, rather than attempting to dismiss the positivity of his time in charge.

[MWHIBBIES]

Mate I loved the Stubbs side and I wasn't meaning my post to demean the time that he was out manager...It was more of an attempt to point out that even good Hibs sides, who we loved, regularly drew with teams like Morton and lost to falkirk..I was attempting to ask for the current management to be given time, rather than attempting to dismiss the positivity of his time in charge.

Fair enough.

That side also regularly battered hearts and rangers. I'll take that trade again

[Is It On....]

I think for a club like hibs, where staff turnover is high, including players and managers,it's more important to have the correct structure.

Dempster talked about a set up where the head coach was recruited on how they would fit the system which should bring continuity.

That way you're acquiring and developing players and the coach slots in, contributes then moves on with minimal disruption.

This worked from Stubbs to lennon. Then fell apart because we let lennon become bigger than the role in the way he acted.

We then seemed to move away. The recruitment under Stubbs was the best I can remember in modern times (without TV money). We need to get back to that.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Ask George Craig to come back to rebuild the structure. If Ron Gordon wants his son in that department then maybe Mr Craig could mentor him!!

[Carheenlea]

The first I’d heard that we had a new sporting director was yesterday during the fallout to the ineligible player debacle.

[Alex Trager]

The first I’d heard that we had a new sporting director was yesterday during the fallout to the ineligible player debacle.

Who is the new sporting director?

[Vault Boy]

😂 sorry, was just being wide.. Listened to the cast, let’s hope you’re still not asking the same questions in another few months time.

My attempt at Friday bantz has ended

Biggest bite I’ve ever made

[bigwheel]

What absolute nonsense.

I asked him directly if he’d appoint a sporting director because there are first timers in the football ops positions.

Multiple podcasters are very critical of the current stewardship. It’s nothing to do with being a fanboy and everything to do with having an audience. That’s why invites are sent. You should take the tin foil hat off when it’s storming outside btw.

Was one of the questions Ron came over most defensive on that one

[overdrive]

Who is the new sporting director?

I don’t think we do or RG would have said when he was asked about a Sporting Director on the podcast interview. It might be the confusion around the guy from Livi’s role/job title.

He’s the Head of Football Operations which was George Craig’s job title but a very different role. When GC had that title, it was more of a DoF type role.

The role currently called that is more a football admin/club secretary type of job. Not a DoF/Sporting Director type job.

[overdrive]

Was one of the questions Ron came over most defensive on that one

I think because he probably saw it as a dig at Ian Gordon. Then when BK’s name was mentioned he saw it as a dig at him because apparently he’s “fantastic”.

I think the jist of it is: appointment by the RG regime - “fantastic employee”. Already there beforehand - “needs upgraded”.

[bigwheel]

I think because he probably saw it as a dig at Ian Gordon. Then when BK’s name was mentioned he saw it as a dig at him because apparently he’s “fantastic”.

I think the jist of it is: appointment by the RG regime - “fantastic employee”. Already there beforehand - “needs upgraded”.

There is some truth in that for sure …..

[Edina Street]

A "director of football" might be something Ron Gordon should be considering, rather than playing cloak-and-daggers with Brighton Hove Hibs.

[Keith_M]

A "director of football" might be something Ron Gordon should be considering, over playing cloak-and-daggers with Brighton Hove Hibs.


Could you possibly explain that part.

[Iain G]

A "director of football" might be something Ron Gordon should be considering, over playing cloak-and-daggers with Brighton Hove Hibs.

What cloak and daggers? Is this another conspiracy theory around Ron the Con? 🤣