Edinburgh City bypass

[Billy Whizz]

Not fit for purpose anymore
Queues everyday, and if there a bump it’s gridlock

They can’t continue to build houses/Retail Parks etc on the east end of it, without improving the roads

I’m glad it’s not my route on a regular basis

[judas]

Agreed. Totally inadequate now.

[Pretty Boy]

The whole road network in the east of the city; for drivers, pedestrians, cyclists and anyone elsewho uses them, is wholly inadequate.

Thousands of new houses built, a retail park that is among the biggest in the UK and barely any improvement to road infrastructure at all.

Tbf I'm sure people who live in the west, north and south will say similar about their areas.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

The state of the roads in Edinburgh is embarrassing for the capital city of this country, tbh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Gave up the car 6 months ago and I’d say it has reduced the source of my stress by 50%. I only very occasionally miss it. Edinburghs road network is broken.

[McD]

Far too many bottleneck points at the entry points into Edinburgh. The bypass isn’t designed well, and isn’t fit for purpose. Sheriffhall is in almost constant gridlock, especially coming from the A1.

as has been said, the building of hundreds/thousands of new houses at the east end of the bypass has and will continue to make things worse.

[Stairway 2 7]

It definitely needs new ideas for the roundabouts. But there is no easy answer for traffic I don't think. The population of edin is going to go to 1 million, so the cars and houses to go with that. The greens will be pushing for no more large road building such as an extra lane. The bypass will eventually be surrounded by houses. More public transport use and park and rides probably the only way

[Antifa Hibs]

A wider road with additional lanes only add more traffic so would solve the square route of fudge all i'm afraid. You could add capacity for an extra 20000 cars per day but those cars are going to have to go somewhere, likely a dual carriage M8, A1 or various roads into Edinburgh - which would just increase congestion elsewhere.

What does need to happen however is vast improvements in public transport while making it as difficult as possible for drivers to use their cars at peak times. So prioritising buses and trams along with bus lanes, bus gates and congestion charges. However no-one really wants to hear that. Could probably do with not building these stupid out of town 4 bed double garaged houses and instead build high density areas so it makes it more feasible for upgraded or new transport links. Winchburgh, I'm looking at you! (Granted that has nout to do with the A720)

[Stairway 2 7]

Cities aren't designed for the amount of cars they have nowadays, especially not medieval ones like ours. Add in population explosion like ours and your goosed. To be fair, we probably have one of the best bus services in Britain

[Antifa Hibs]

Cities aren't designed for the amount of cars they have nowadays, especially not medieval ones like ours. Add in population explosion like ours and your goosed. To be fair, we probably have one of the best bus services in Britain

Bus service is good but it can only be as good as the roads it drives on, so in Edinburgh im finding the bus service rendered pretty useless and it will stay that way until the council deal with the pinch points and restricting car usage, especially through the city centre and other hotspots.

[heretoday]

Far too many bottleneck points at the entry points into Edinburgh. The bypass isn’t designed well, and isn’t fit for purpose. Sheriffhall is in almost constant gridlock, especially coming from the A1.

as has been said, the building of hundreds/thousands of new houses at the east end of the bypass has and will continue to make things worse.

It's insane. These new housing areas have no shops. People are forced into cars.

[McD]

A large factor for the traffic issues is the volume of commuters into Edinburgh (which is in large part due to the cost of living in the city, but that’s a separate conversation).

people need to get into Edinburgh for their jobs, working from home isn’t available or suitable for thousands of people. The transport links in the city are reasonable, getting into the city is a different matter. When given the choice of paying for an expensive train journey followed by a separate bus journey, possibly multiple bus journeys, that could take 60-90 minutes, versus a 20-40 minute car journey, that feels like it costs less, it’s not surprising many drive. That’s before you add in the comfort of your own car compared to being crammed onto trains or buses like cattle, forced to queue at various bottleneck points, dealing with the weather to get to bus stops and then to places of work.

park and rides help to an extent, but they still lead to a large increase in journey times to and from work and home. Car sharing helps, but is largely restricted to incidental factors like living near colleagues. An improved road infrastructure will help with traffic flow but there’s no appetite for that from the council or other authorities and the greens will make it very difficult to put those in place even if there a will.

[Pretty Boy]

A large factor for the traffic issues is the volume of commuters into Edinburgh (which is in large part due to the cost of living in the city, but that’s a separate conversation).

people need to get into Edinburgh for their jobs, working from home isn’t available or suitable for thousands of people. The transport links in the city are reasonable, getting into the city is a different matter. When given the choice of paying for an expensive train journey followed by a separate bus journey, possibly multiple bus journeys, that could take 60-90 minutes, versus a 20-40 minute car journey, that feels like it costs less, it’s not surprising many drive. That’s before you add in the comfort of your own car compared to being crammed onto trains or buses like cattle, forced to queue at various bottleneck points, dealing with the weather to get to bus stops and then to places of work.

park and rides help to an extent, but they still lead to a large increase in journey times to and from work and home. Car sharing helps, but is largely restricted to incidental factors like living near colleagues. An improved road infrastructure will help with traffic flow but there’s no appetite for that from the council or other authorities and the greens will make it very difficult to put those in place even if there a will.

I remember arguing about 10 years ago that the public transportation system for the wider Edinburgh metro area wasn't anywhere near good enough. The stock answer is 'Edinburgh has a great bus service'. That's largely true if you live in the city boundaries (although even then there are areas which are far better served than others) but it's one piece in a puzzle. An expanded suburban railway would serve huge swathes of the east of the city with stations possible in the likes of Craigmillar and Portobello but that's unlikely to ever happen. The tram network should have been far more ambitious as well, albeit it was so badly managed for the modest plans that were in place that it's arguable that would have just been a recipe for disaster.

The biggest issue though is the one you allude to. A lot of people who now work in Edinburgh have been priced out the city so have to commute in every day. Whilst Edinburgh might have a great bus service what we really need is a huge public transport overhaul that improves the service links to Kirkliston, Broxburn, Bathgate, Dunfermline, Rosyth, Tranent, Prestonpans, Wallyford etc etc. The fundamental issue is transport is nominally recognised as an essential service but a lot of it is run by private companies. Routes are planned based on profit rather than need.

To tempt people out of your cars you need to make life as simple as possible. 'Drive here, get a train to here, change here, get off here then get a bus from here' isn't going to work. 'Get a bus from here to here on a clearly defined bus lane and it will take a comparable time to the car and be quite comfortable' just might. Add to that an improvement in cycling and walking infrastructure. I'm supportive of the spaces for people plan in principle, not so much in practice. No tactile paving for visually impaired pedestrians, badly laid out in a whole host of ways, a lack of clear definition between pedestrian and cycle lanes and a whole range of other issues. You can't be half hearted about these things and the current set up feels like a box ticking exercise done on a shoestring.

The other alternative would of course be to build high quality, moderate density, genuinely affordable housing within the city itself. However a pig just flew past my window so I can't expand on that right now.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Bus service is good but it can only be as good as the roads it drives on, so in Edinburgh im finding the bus service rendered pretty useless and it will stay that way until the council deal with the pinch points and restricting car usage, especially through the city centre and other hotspots.

Totally agree. I bus every day in Edinburgh and almost every delay I experience is caused by cars parking in bus lanes. It makes buses move into main line traffic. I sat and watched last night my bus move slowly towards me in the main line of traffic on junction street because some idiot parked and blocked the bus lane.

[Keith_M]

I don't get the 'Edinburgh has a great bus service' argument at all. If you've ever lived in other large cities, especially on the continent, you'd see how poor the public transport network is in Edinburgh in comparison.

I used to live in the south east of Edinburgh, and worked in the centre of town, and it was an absolute nightmare most days with the time it took getting to and from work. The bus was often held up by various delays... or regularly cancelled. I could get the train into town from Newcraighall but that meant driving there first, praying the train would actually turn up, then having a loooong walk at the other end from Waverley to the office.

In Munich I had a fairly long commute but the first part was on the train then a bus at the other end, all for the cost of one ticket, not one each for the bus and train.

FFS, even Glasgow has a better public transport system; with a combination of trains, buses and an underground. They don't have the integrated public transport system either, but there's a lot more choice of how to get about, and it's often much quicker.

[lapsedhibee]

FFS, even Glasgow has a better public transport system; with a combination of trains, buses and an underground. They don't have the integrated public transport system either, but there's a lot more choice of how to get about, and it's often much quicker.

Probably not fair to make direct comparison between Glasgow and Edinburgh's public transport. Edinburgh chose to preserve its city's structure, Glasgow chose to have motorways running right through it.

[Keith_M]

Probably not fair to make direct comparison between Glasgow and Edinburgh's public transport. Edinburgh chose to preserve its city's structure, Glasgow chose to have motorways running right through it.


True, but the public transport doesn't run on the motorway.

:wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Cities aren't designed for the amount of cars they have nowadays, especially not medieval ones like ours. Add in population explosion like ours and your goosed. To be fair, we probably have one of the best bus services in Britain

My car isn't medievil! :grr:

[Since90+2]

I don't get the 'Edinburgh has a great bus service' argument at all. If you've ever lived in other large cities, especially on the continent, you'd see how poor the public transport network is in Edinburgh in comparison.

I used to live in the south east of Edinburgh, and worked in the centre of town, and it was an absolute nightmare most days with the time it took getting to and from work. The bus was often held up by various delays... or regularly cancelled. I could get the train into town from Newcraighall but that meant driving there first, praying the train would actually turn up, then having a loooong walk at the other end from Waverley to the office.

In Munich I had a fairly long commute but the first part was on the train then a bus at the other end, all for the cost of one ticket, not one each for the bus and train.

FFS, even Glasgow has a better public transport system; with a combination of trains, buses and an underground. They don't have the integrated public transport system either, but there's a lot more choice of how to get about, and it's often much quicker.

The bus service itself in Edinburgh is fantastic in terms of bus frequency, reliability, connectivity and value for money.

The issue is the city at many points is just simply not designed to hold the volume of traffic it does and this inevitably causes delays to journeys, but that's the fault of city planners and not the bus service in itself.

[lapsedhibee]

True, but the public transport doesn't run on the motorway.

:wink:

Much of the private transport which clogs up public transport on Edinburgh's roads could easily be taken out of the equation by simply building flyovers in all directions over the city centre. Not sure why it hasn't been done, unless perhaps people have been to Glasgow.

[Moulin Yarns]

My car isn't medievil! :grr:

Mine is getting there, 8 years old, which must be close to 800 in car years. 😉

[Moulin Yarns]

Much of the private transport which clogs up public transport on Edinburgh's roads could easily be taken out of the equation by simply building flyovers in all directions over the city centre. Not sure why it hasn't been done, unless perhaps people have been to Glasgow.

Way back in the 1960s edinburgh had plans for a North circular road. At least where it was planned to go through inverleith Park it was to be elevated on stilts. As a result the council built Broughton high with windows that couldn't open. We baked in summer.



Edit


Found this article.

https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/edinburghs-unbuilt-inner-ring-road-839999

[BroxburnHibee]

Winchburgh is a great example of no joined up thinking in the planning process. It's population is exploding due to the massive amount of housebuilding in the area.

Given it sits on the main line between Edinburgh and Glasgow you would think a train station would be a no brainer and perhaps agreed and started on first?

Nah. Still no sign of a station as no one can agree who's paying for it.

So all commuters are forced to head through Kirkliston crossroads or down a narrow road near Broxburn. Spectacular planning!

[speedy_gonzales]

Winchburgh is a great example of no joined up thinking in the planning process. It's population is exploding due to the massive amount of housebuilding in the area.

Given it sits on the main line between Edinburgh and Glasgow you would think a train station would be a no brainer and perhaps agreed and started on first?

Nah. Still no sign of a station as no one can agree who's paying for it.

So all commuters are forced to head through Kirkliston crossroads or down a narrow road near Broxburn. Spectacular planning!

I know from first hand experience that the new houses there were being sold with the "promise" of a new doctors surgery, new schools and a train station.
I also know, because I work in the industry, that no serious consideration has been given to planning/building a station at Winchburgh.
The powers that be have been trying for 30 years to get the Edinburgh-Glasgow commute time down to 40 minutes. Adding extra stations isn't going to achieve that.

[Keith_M]

The bus service itself in Edinburgh is fantastic in terms of bus frequency, reliability, connectivity and value for money.

The issue is the city at many points is just simply not designed to hold the volume of traffic it does and this inevitably causes delays to journeys, but that's the fault of city planners and not the bus service in itself.


I agree with that. The problem is that I can't see a way round it.

I'm not criticising the bus services themselves but the actual experience as a passenger/commuter is not as great as a lot of people seem to think.

Edinburgh really should have a system of suburban rail lines as well, and it should be integrated with the bus service, not a rival service.

[The_Exile]

I'm almost at the point of giving up my car for an electric bike but it's the winter commutes I can't stand and I'd need to bus it. Musselburgh to Victoria Quay in the car is around 30-40 minutes in relative comfirt with an audiobook on and a nice warm car. On the bus? Well, I used to bus it all the time and it was 2 or 3 buses and averaged about an hour and a half but the record was 2 hours 15 minutes, imagine that in the freezing cold or pissing rain on a minging bus which was standard when I used to do it. I'm not sure I could ever go back to that utter misery. If the link between Musselburgh and Leith didn't involve 2 or 3 buses then I would consider it but there's no buses that go along Seafield.

[Allant1981]

I have to drive into edinburgh everyday and its mental some days, would love to get the train but the cost of the train is more than double what i pay for fuel meaning its hard for me to justify, if train fares were slightly less id definitely get the train more often

[Hibby70]

If the link between Musselburgh and Leith didn't involve 2 or 3 buses then I would consider it but there's no buses that go along Seafield.

There should be a high speed ferry. Stopping at Musselburgh Portobello and Leith.

[Smartie]

There should be a high speed ferry. Stopping at Musselburgh Portobello and Leith.

How practical is that?

[Hermit Crab]

I know from first hand experience that the new houses there were being sold with the "promise" of a new doctors surgery, new schools and a train station.
I also know, because I work in the industry, that no serious consideration has been given to planning/building a station at Winchburgh.
The powers that be have been trying for 30 years to get the Edinburgh-Glasgow commute time down to 40 minutes. Adding extra stations isn't going to achieve that.


You could stop the dunblanes at Winchburgh and change would be required at Larbert for Glasgow. Or you could stop the slower services to Glasgow via Cumbernauld there and drop Edinburgh Park. In theory you could have a 4 platform jn station but that would cost tens of millions and probably wouldn't bring in enough revenue.

Its geographical nightmare trying to put a station in there, the cutting, the old quarry and tunnel doesn't leave much room for work and it would take a lot of line closures to put a station in there and you couldn't even divert the E and G services via the dalmeny/winchburgh curve as it not wired and there are not a enough DMUs on ScotRails books now to supplement the lecys. Best not bothering with a station there at all.

[Hermit Crab]

How practical is that?


There was a trial of a hovercraft service from Kirkcaldy or Burntisland to Leith a few years ago I think.

[LeithMike]

The issue is the city at many points is just simply not designed to hold the volume of traffic it does and this inevitably causes delays to journeys, but that's the fault of city planners and not the bus service in itself.

Which, if correct, begs the question what on earth the Council are doing with spaces for people?! Narrowing roads and removing dual carriageways; putting car parking spaces in the middle of roads; forcing bikes to avoid the actual bike lanes because they are full of potholes; drilling into roads for temporary bollards that will only further ruin our road surfaces. Bonkers!

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Billy Whizz]

Winchburgh is a great example of no joined up thinking in the planning process. It's population is exploding due to the massive amount of housebuilding in the area.

Given it sits on the main line between Edinburgh and Glasgow you would think a train station would be a no brainer and perhaps agreed and started on first?

Nah. Still no sign of a station as no one can agree who's paying for it.

So all commuters are forced to head through Kirkliston crossroads or down a narrow road near Broxburn. Spectacular planning!

Hopefully with Scot Rail being owned by the country, we can see more train stations opening
Noticed when I went up the M9 the other day, they are building a link to join and leave the M9 from Winchburgh

[Antifa Hibs]

I don't get the 'Edinburgh has a great bus service' argument at all. If you've ever lived in other large cities, especially on the continent, you'd see how poor the public transport network is in Edinburgh in comparison.

I used to live in the south east of Edinburgh, and worked in the centre of town, and it was an absolute nightmare most days with the time it took getting to and from work. The bus was often held up by various delays... or regularly cancelled. I could get the train into town from Newcraighall but that meant driving there first, praying the train would actually turn up, then having a loooong walk at the other end from Waverley to the office.

In Munich I had a fairly long commute but the first part was on the train then a bus at the other end, all for the cost of one ticket, not one each for the bus and train.

FFS, even Glasgow has a better public transport system; with a combination of trains, buses and an underground. They don't have the integrated public transport system either, but there's a lot more choice of how to get about, and it's often much quicker.

You can only really compare with your nearest competitors I guess. And compared to Dundee, Aberdeen and Glasgow it is great. Compared to London or Munich probably not. Bit like saying Easter Road isn't a good stadium if you compare it to Wembley or Allianz Arena. Buses are generally modern, well equipped with wifi and charging points, contactless payment options, trackable bus apps etc and very affordable for most. For Scottish/UK standards they're very good. However as stated above rendered useless when stuck behind god know's how many cars carrying only one person.

[Bridge hibs]

There was a trial of a hovercraft service from Kirkcaldy or Burntisland to Leith a few years ago I think.To Portobello just behind the bus depot, think it didnt go ahead due to cost

[danhibees1875]

I'm a big fan of the bus service in Edinburgh and think it's generally great. Very reliable, and a great price too. Even now that I've moved to the outskirts I have a plentiful selection of frequent buses to different parts of town.
There's a couple of areas on my route that could do with a change of road layout, or something, to help traffic flow though.

As for the bypass, I don't think it's that bad. I don't need to use it often (i.e. it isn't my commute) but I do pop along it to Straiton or along the length of it en route to Fife and would say it's generally fine. Even when it's busy everything is still moving along at least.

[JimBHibees]

I'm a big fan of the bus service in Edinburgh and think it's generally great. Very reliable, and a great price too. Even now that I've moved to the outskirts I have a plentiful selection of frequent buses to different parts of town.
There's a couple of areas on my route that could do with a change of road layout, or something, to help traffic flow though.

As for the bypass, I don't think it's that bad. I don't need to use it often (i.e. it isn't my commute) but I do pop along it to Straiton or along the length of it en route to Fife and would say it's generally fine. Even when it's busy everything is still moving along at least.

The part from the A1 to Sheriffhall seems to be a car park most times of the day. No idea why there was no underpass at Sheriffhall having a roundabout on a bypass seems ridiculous

[danhibees1875]

The part from the A1 to Sheriffhall seems to be a car park most times of the day. No idea why there was no underpass at Sheriffhall having a roundabout on a bypass seems ridiculous

That's the bit I would typically not use to be fair, which maybe gives me a better impression of the road.

There were/are plans for a flyover/uninterrupted road through the sheriffhall that look complicated but would perhaps improve the situation you describe.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/six-more-years-of-misery-at-edinburghs-sheriffhall-roundabout-as-flyover-scheme-gets-go-ahead-3369442

[Mon_the_cabbage]

The part from the A1 to Sheriffhall seems to be a car park most times of the day. No idea why there was no underpass at Sheriffhall having a roundabout on a bypass seems ridiculous

If my memory serves me well. The problem in the planning/design phase was that the landowner (British Coal) would not grant permission for deep surveys on the land east of Sheriffhall. Without knowing the extent of undermining, the roundabout was a crude way of ensuring slower traffic.

[JimBHibees]

That's the bit I would typically not use to be fair, which maybe gives me a better impression of the road.

There were/are plans for a flyover/uninterrupted road through the sheriffhall that look complicated but would perhaps improve the situation you describe.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/six-more-years-of-misery-at-edinburghs-sheriffhall-roundabout-as-flyover-scheme-gets-go-ahead-3369442

Ok cheers

[JimBHibees]

If my memory serves me well. The problem in the planning/design phase was that the landowner (British Coal) would not grant permission for deep surveys on the land east of Sheriffhall. Without knowing the extent of undermining, the roundabout was a crude way of ensuring slower traffic.

Ok vaguely remember something like that. :aok:

[He's here!]

Not fit for purpose anymore
Queues everyday, and if there a bump it’s gridlock

They can’t continue to build houses/Retail Parks etc on the east end of it, without improving the roads

I’m glad it’s not my route on a regular basis

That massive new development as you come off the bypass at Prestonpans certainly isn't going to help the traffic. It's like a whole new town being built.

[He's here!]

I'm a big fan of the bus service in Edinburgh and think it's generally great. Very reliable, and a great price too. Even now that I've moved to the outskirts I have a plentiful selection of frequent buses to different parts of town.
There's a couple of areas on my route that could do with a change of road layout, or something, to help traffic flow though.

As for the bypass, I don't think it's that bad. I don't need to use it often (i.e. it isn't my commute) but I do pop along it to Straiton or along the length of it en route to Fife and would say it's generally fine. Even when it's busy everything is still moving along at least.

Problem with the bus service now that they're busy again is the number of folk who stink.

[LewysGot2]

That massive new development as you come off the bypass at Prestonpans certainly isn't going to help the traffic. It's like a whole new town being built.

The bypass? Do you mean the A1?

It is a whole new town being built! Blindwells is its name. There's a 700 house expansion at Wallyford too.

[Killiehibbie]

Hopefully with Scot Rail being owned by the country, we can see more train stations opening
Noticed when I went up the M9 the other day, they are building a link to join and leave the M9 from Winchburgh

What chance is there of a place like Winchburgh getting a station if they can't justify the cost of building one at the airport with many times more passengers.

[Glory Lurker]

What chance is there of a place like Winchburgh getting a station if they can't justify the cost of building one at the airport with many times more passengers.

Don't know about Winchburgh, but the cost of diverting the railway to the airport was huge. There was no way it could be done, by the SNP anyway, without doing the same for Glasow which also looked like costing loads.

Perhaps the view is that that level of expenditure isn't justified to promote air travel which isn't the best environmentally.

[Antifa Hibs]

Don't know about Winchburgh, but the cost of diverting the railway to the airport was huge. There was no way it could be done, by the SNP anyway, without doing the same for Glasow which also looked like costing loads.

Perhaps the view is that that level of expenditure isn't justified to promote air travel which isn't the best environmentally.

Winchburgh's had a railway station planned but its been pretty much shelved https://www.westlothian.gov.uk/article/74480/Winchburgh-train-station-update

[He's here!]

The bypass? Do you mean the A1?

It is a whole new town being built! Blindwells is its name. There's a 700 house expansion at Wallyford too.

Yeh I guess I still call it the bypass because I'm old enough to remember when the A1 went through Musselburgh and that section of road was known as the Musselburgh bypass when it opened in the 80s.

These developments seem staggering in size. Hard to see anything other than worsening traffic problems when they're built.

[Hermit Crab]

Winchburgh's had a railway station planned but its been pretty much shelved https://www.westlothian.gov.uk/article/74480/Winchburgh-train-station-update


Winchburgh had a station originally, however it closed in 1930.

[Bishop Hibee]

The history of the building of the bypass is interesting. If my memory is correct, the then Lothian Region which was in charge of Highways went to the Scottish Office asking for funding to build it. This was refused so the council took out a covenant to be repaid over a certain time period in order to build it. It wasn’t paid for from central government but by rate payers and subsequently poll tax and council tax payers of the Lothians. There were/are all sorts of anomalies in the construction. Myself and a colleague went out measuring a number of lay-bys back in the day as no record of their size could be found. There was no standard size and some did not comply with the legal standards of the time!

It was the right thing for the then Labour council administration to get it built but it could never be done to the standards necessary even then as the Tory run Scottish Office wouldn’t stump up the necessary cash. Certainly not fit for purpose now but it’s what we are stuck with. Don’t get me started on what housing developers can get away with.

[heretoday]

Yeh I guess I still call it the bypass because I'm old enough to remember when the A1 went through Musselburgh and that section of road was known as the Musselburgh bypass when it opened in the 80s.

These developments seem staggering in size. Hard to see anything other than worsening traffic problems when they're built.

No local shops to go with them so people are forced into cars.
The developers are in charge now.

[Keith_M]

I'd completely forgot how sensitive some people are to criticism of Edinburgh's bus service.

:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

I'd completely forgot how sensitive some people are to criticism of Edinburgh's bus service.

:greengrin

It's the opposite about the trams. For me the busses are brilliant particularly in the city. They have plenty disabled and pram spaces, WiFi, chargers, are regular, cheap and modern. The majority of users have ridecards which you can use on the trams. I think the trams down to leith will help it, leith walk is the most densely populated area in Scotland

[Keith_M]

It's the opposite about the trams. For me the busses are brilliant particularly in the city. They have plenty disabled and pram spaces, WiFi, chargers, are regular, cheap and modern. The majority of users have ridecards which you can use on the trams. I think the trams down to leith will help it, leith walk is the most densely populated area in Scotland


There's some areas of the town that used to have train tracks and it would have been great if they could have reinstated some of the local train stations (Leith Central, Easter Road, Tynecastle, etc) but sadly they've built over a lot of it.

If we had that and the buses, and the same company (or the Council) ran the buses, trains and trams, that would help immensely with the public transport situation.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's some areas of the town that used to have train tracks and it would have been great if they could have reinstated some of the local train stations (Leith Central, Easter Road, Tynecastle, etc) but sadly they've built over a lot of it.

If we had that and the buses, and the same company (or the Council) ran the buses, trains and trams, that would help immensely with the public transport situation.

Yep suburban trains work so well, not sure how many could be opened. I'd expand the trams south and east, but they did such a pish job they might have blown that

[He's here!]

Yep suburban trains work so well, not sure how many could be opened. I'd expand the trams south and east, but they did such a pish job they might have blown that

One of the lines that runs via the south of the city is still functioning. Pretty sure Morningside Station platform is still there so there would maybe be scope to reinstate a suburban service there, but as you say many of the lines are now cycle tracks or no longer feasible to reopen.

IIRC there have been attempts to make this a voting issue in council elections by some candidates but it's never come to much. Personally I'd love to see a suburban service reinstated. When I lived in Glasgow that was how I did the majority of my travelling around the south of the city. Much better than sitting on a bus.

[He's here!]

No local shops to go with them so people are forced into cars.
The developers are in charge now.

Seriously? No shops being incorporated in these plans? Crazy. Just another soulless grid of near identikit homes then.

They'll need another railway station, or at least more frequent trains, on the North Berwick/Dunbar lines surely? I know folk who get that train in to work and by the time it gets to Prestonpans it's often too packed to get on (or it certainly was pre-Covid).

[James310]

Yep suburban trains work so well, not sure how many could be opened. I'd expand the trams south and east, but they did such a pish job they might have blown that

I never realised but the Edinburgh Tram Inquiry is still going on, the first hearing was in 2015.

[Just Alf]

Yep suburban trains work so well, not sure how many could be opened. I'd expand the trams south and east, but they did such a pish job they might have blown thatAlways thought that the old line at Easter Road could be converted to a tram link... looking at it in satellite view its almost intact from Granton to Broughton Rd and the intact though to Piershill, there's still room for the tracks for a bit then it could go onto the roads down towards Portobello..... maybe!

Not sure how a turn (or transfer stop) could be sorted around Leithwalk to get to the centre of town mind.

[Keith_M]

Yep suburban trains work so well, not sure how many could be opened. I'd expand the trams south and east, but they did such a pish job they might have blown that


My personal feeling is that we should avoid any more tram extensions (after the current extensions is finished) and concentrate on finding options for the rail network. The effect of the tram works, and the cost, has been just horrendous.

[Killiehibbie]

Don't know about Winchburgh, but the cost of diverting the railway to the airport was huge. There was no way it could be done, by the SNP anyway, without doing the same for Glasow which also looked like costing loads.

Perhaps the view is that that level of expenditure isn't justified to promote air travel which isn't the best environmentally.

Both airports should have had train stations decades ago removing millions of car journeys throughout the whole country. I suppose they would use Prestwick as an example of it being uneconomical and hardly used.

[Glory Lurker]

Both airports should have had train stations decades ago removing millions of car journeys throughout the whole country.

That's very true. Typical of the lack of forward thinking in the sixties and seventies when air travel was really taking off, if you'll excuse the pun. Road was the untouchable king and rail was never going to get a look in.

[Hermit Crab]

Yep suburban trains work so well, not sure how many could be opened. I'd expand the trams south and east, but they did such a pish job they might have blown that


The old stations on the South sub are too difficult to reopen. Making them fully PRM accessible is a problem and making the platforms long enough to accommodate 6-8 coach trains is not possible, the sub line is also not electrified meaning ScotRail would have to find extra DMU's from somewhere to run the service. Electrifying the South sub looks like it could be tricky as well given some bridges that would need rebuilt, the ones at old the Newington station and possibly Morningside are two I can think of right off and that would involve a road closures for months to raise the bridge or lower the tracks to make room for overhead wires. Not worth spending all those millions really.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Regardless of the solutions available it will always come down to who pays for it.

And until the SG get tough with these housing developers and make it a condition of planning consent that significant financial contributions are made to local infrastructure upgrades and new construction, we will continue on this path of lots and lots of identical housing with next to no additional capacity added on our roads, in our schools and within our hospitals.

[Mibbes Aye]

Regardless of the solutions available it will always come down to who pays for it.

And until the SG get tough with these housing developers and make it a condition of planning consent that significant financial contributions are made to local infrastructure upgrades and new construction, we will continue on this path of lots and lots of identical housing with next to no additional capacity added on our roads, in our schools and within our hospitals.

Councils use Section 75 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 to oblige developers to make financial contributions. These section 75 payments are meant to contribute towards the impact on the local infrastructure.

[The Harp Awakes]

I'm almost at the point of giving up my car for an electric bike but it's the winter commutes I can't stand and I'd need to bus it. Musselburgh to Victoria Quay in the car is around 30-40 minutes in relative comfirt with an audiobook on and a nice warm car. On the bus? Well, I used to bus it all the time and it was 2 or 3 buses and averaged about an hour and a half but the record was 2 hours 15 minutes, imagine that in the freezing cold or pissing rain on a minging bus which was standard when I used to do it. I'm not sure I could ever go back to that utter misery. If the link between Musselburgh and Leith didn't involve 2 or 3 buses then I would consider it but there's no buses that go along Seafield.

I live in Musselburgh and I have never understood the logic as to why you can't get public transport from Musselburgh/Portobello along the cost road to Leith/the Ocean Terminal/Granton. That road is a nightmare for traffic and buses would take so many cars off the road. Madness

[JimBHibees]

I live in Musselburgh and I have never understood the logic as to why you can't get public transport from Musselburgh/Portobello along the cost road to Leith/the Ocean Terminal/Granton. That road is a nightmare for traffic and buses would take so many cars off the road. Madness

Think there used to be a bus years ago but as you say makes no sense at all not to run one even one an hour or something.

[heretoday]

Went to Straiton and Dalkeith yesterday by a route avoiding the bypass. Coming back to Corstorphine using Frogston Rd and Redford Rd it struck me as ironic that we are on routes which the bypass was intended to alleviate.
It's done that all right but I always avoid it at busy times. It's jammed.

[hibsbollah]

Went to Straiton and Dalkeith yesterday by a route avoiding the bypass. Coming back to Corstorphine using Frogston Rd and Redford Rd it struck me as ironic that we are on routes which the bypass was intended to alleviate.
It's done that all right but I always avoid it at busy times. It's jammed.

:agree: Same old story, the more roads you build, the more congested they get. But the developed world learnt that 50 years ago, and that’s why governments that aren’t in the pockets of the construction industry built a proper integrated public transport network.

[Jones28]

Did anyone see the top gear episode when they went to Burmas new capital city? Napiador (definitely not the right spelling), has roads with 10 lane carriageways in each direction. 20 lanes total. That’s what future proofing looks like. I find it bizarre that we built all these roads and in 40 years they’ve become unfit for purpose.

[Coach Jon]

Went to Straiton and Dalkeith yesterday by a route avoiding the bypass. Coming back to Corstorphine using Frogston Rd and Redford Rd it struck me as ironic that we are on routes which the bypass was intended to alleviate.
It's done that all right but I always avoid it at busy times. It's jammed.

Its jammed because they have built thousands of houses on what was previously known as the Green Belt. Just about every field in the South of the city is being developed for housing, never spent a penny on improving the outdated roads in order to handle the extra traffic. Obviously the councillors who gave planning permission for this were well looked after.

[Gatecrasher]

Did anyone see the top gear episode when they went to Burmas new capital city? Napiador (definitely not the right spelling), has roads with 10 lane carriageways in each direction. 20 lanes total. That’s what future proofing looks like. I find it bizarre that we built all these roads and in 40 years they’ve become unfit for purpose.

that's madness that's not future proofing. I love driving and my car but in reality if climate issues are going to be reslolved we're going to using our cars a lot less in the next 10 years or so. Can you imagine how much space a 20 lane road would need?

Luckily for me the pandemic has meant my employer is happy for us to do hybrid working which means me going from 12,000 miles a year to about 3,000.

Money should be going into improving public transport, making it more affordable and efficient, not increasing road capacity. (even if I do wish the M8 and Bypass was 6 lanes)

[He's here!]

Its jammed because they have built thousands of houses on what was previously known as the Green Belt. Just about every field in the South of the city is being developed for housing, never spent a penny on improving the outdated roads in order to handle the extra traffic. Obviously the councillors who gave planning permission for this were well looked after.

Travelling in and around Edinburgh has become a desperate experience. Within the city it's staggering how many temporary traffic lights you run into, with little thought seemingly given to the timing of roadworks (ie so that you don't end up with multiple routes to the same place compromised). I've had to make my way to Ocean Terminal several times lately (what a white elephant that has become by the way) and the combination of the Leith Walk tramworks plus roadworks along the shoreline approach make getting there an almighty pain in the ****.

[Pretty Boy]

My preferred mode of transport, such as it is, is my legs. I walk everywhere I possibly can. I walk to work (about a 10 mile round trip) every day, I walk to the shops. I walk into town if I'm going for a beer or whatever and I'll more than likely walk to ER today because I don't have the bairn.

However I realise I am fortunate in being able to do that. I live in the city, albeit the suburbs, and Edinburgh is small enough that you can really walk anywhere if you have the desire and ability to do so. My wife is on maternity leave currently so deals with the nursery run and the like. When she goes back to work I'll need to take over that. And that will require using the car. I start at 9, nursery and soon school at 8.40. Walking or the bus just isn't an option at that point. My work is pretty flexible but not to the point I can stroll in an hour late everyday.

For me it's all a balance. Insentivise the bus, walking routes and cycling for those who have the option to do so and make the roads more manageable for those who have to use the car. The best starting point would be to make public transport free. It's possible, Luxembourg has proven that and Malta will soon follow suit. People will argue otherwise but trains in particular in Scotland can be cost prohibitive. Make the cycle to work scheme more prominent, it's a great tax break but so many people don't seem to know about it and do the same with decent running or walking shoes for those who want to walk to work.

[heretoday]

Thankfully we have an excellent bus service in Edinburgh.
It's the best thing about the city just about.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Leith is a nightmare the now for traffic. Probably the worst I've ever seen it. I work down near the Shore and it's a chore to drive in every day. Glad to be heading to the game today for a few beers and bussing it to the area for a change.

[hibee_girl]

Leith is a nightmare the now for traffic. Probably the worst I've ever seen it. I work down near the Shore and it's a chore to drive in every day. Glad to be heading to the game today for a few beers and bussing it to the area for a change.

Leith is horrendous just now. I know they‘ve had to do it for the tram works but closing off Queen Charlotte Street has made traffic awful. A normal 2 minute journey took me 20 minutes the other morning.

[Stairway 2 7]

I've been to China, Bangkok and New York in the last few years. All the cities I went to are much bigger than Scotlands population. Roads are pretty much gridlocked all day with huge motorways inside the cities.

New york is chockablock with the biggest gas guzzlers you can see, old spluttering diesel engines on the buses and vans. Neon lights everywhere, construction and single use plastic everywhere.

It makes me feel my recycling and eating less meat is a pathetic attempt at making me feel better at helping, rather than changing anything.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Leith is horrendous just now. I know they‘ve had to do it for the tram works but closing off Queen Charlotte Street has made traffic awful. A normal 2 minute journey took me 20 minutes the other morning.

That closure is having a big impact on the area. It's a small but very popular road. The traffic lights at the foot of Easter Road, particularly if you come from the Links or Lochend Road and the lights at the foot of the Walk are another ***** show. Arrrghh!

[Antifa Hibs]

Did anyone see the top gear episode when they went to Burmas new capital city? Napiador (definitely not the right spelling), has roads with 10 lane carriageways in each direction. 20 lanes total. That’s what future proofing looks like. I find it bizarre that we built all these roads and in 40 years they’ve become unfit for purpose.

https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/status/1191295205187686400

[Antifa Hibs]

My preferred mode of transport, such as it is, is my legs. I walk everywhere I possibly can. I walk to work (about a 10 mile round trip) every day, I walk to the shops. I walk into town if I'm going for a beer or whatever and I'll more than likely walk to ER today because I don't have the bairn.

However I realise I am fortunate in being able to do that. I live in the city, albeit the suburbs, and Edinburgh is small enough that you can really walk anywhere if you have the desire and ability to do so. My wife is on maternity leave currently so deals with the nursery run and the like. When she goes back to work I'll need to take over that. And that will require using the car. I start at 9, nursery and soon school at 8.40. Walking or the bus just isn't an option at that point. My work is pretty flexible but not to the point I can stroll in an hour late everyday.

For me it's all a balance. Insentivise the bus, walking routes and cycling for those who have the option to do so and make the roads more manageable for those who have to use the car. The best starting point would be to make public transport free. It's possible, Luxembourg has proven that and Malta will soon follow suit. People will argue otherwise but trains in particular in Scotland can be cost prohibitive. Make the cycle to work scheme more prominent, it's a great tax break but so many people don't seem to know about it and do the same with decent running or walking shoes for those who want to walk to work.

When Tallinn introduced free public transport, ride numbers increased by 14% but no traffic decrease. What they found was that despite it being free, people still opted to drive. The increase in public transport users was from those who walked and cycled before. To get people out of cars you've got to make it more difficult and expensive to get round via car than it is public transport.

[gbhibby]

Think there used to be a bus years ago but as you say makes no sense at all not to run one even one an hour or something.
The old 32 bus service,covered the outer circle of Edinburgh was a great bus service.

[Since90+2]

As someone who's took the bus for years to and from work but has just recently passed my test I can see why folk who drive will be reluctant to get on a bus.

Buses, especially busy routes, are not particularly pleasant ways of traveling. Not only for the time they take but the crammed nature of them.

[DaveF]

The old 32 bus service,covered the outer circle of Edinburgh was a great bus service.

32/52 took you to places you never knew existed. Well, it seemed like that when you did the full circle on it 😃

[Santa Cruz]

32/52 took you to places you never knew existed. Well, it seemed like that when you did the full circle on it 😃

Just under 4 hours to complete the full circle. The child fare was 8p. My mum would bolt for her purse to get the fares to get shot for the long spell while me and the cousins would take in the sights of Niddrie, Wester Hailes, Muirhouse etc... easy pleased bairns...happy days

[gbhibby]

Remember when the first talk of a city bypass it said it would have to be 3 lanes with a hard shoulder to future proof it for the projected increase in traffic. What did they build,a dual carriageway. There was projections of increases in population in Mid and East Lothian. Not looking forward to the sherifhall roadworks.
Bring back the 32/52 bus service.

[Santa Cruz]

Remember when the first talk of a city bypass was muted it said it would have to be 3 lanes with a hard shoulder to future proof it for the projected increase in traffic. What did they build,a dual carriageway. There was projections of increases in population in Mid and East Lothian. Not looking forward to the sherifhall roadworks.
Bring back the 32/52 bus service.

There was a campaign a few years ago to get the route re-instated after it was withdrawn. There was a similar one when the only bus that went to the City Hospital was withdrawn, think it was the 42?


http://www.digitalsentinel.net/2017/03/service-32-withdrawn-in-lothian-buses-service-changes/

[gbhibby]

There was a campaign a few years ago to get the route re-instated after it was withdrawn. There was a similar one when the only bus that went to the City Hospital was withdrawn, think it was the 42?


http://www.digitalsentinel.net/2017/03/service-32-withdrawn-in-lothian-buses-service-changes/
I remember when the 41 bus went to the city hospital.

[Jones28]

https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/status/1191295205187686400

Not really the point I'm making here, but I agree with the principle that we need to use our cars less.

But another common theme on this thread is how horrendous driving in the city is, so even public transport isn't very helpful.