Ron’s Logic

[RIP]

One of the main justifications for sacking Maloney was a fear that the downward spiral would drag the club into a relegation battle.

He’s also stated that he won’t rush to recruit a new manager.

So what’s more risky?

A manager presiding over poor form?
Or
No manager?

Hope SDG won’t be hung out to dry if Ron’s judgement fails.

[Callum_62]

One of the main justifications for sacking Maloney was a fear that the downward spiral would drag the club into a relegation battle.

He’s also stated that he won’t rush to recruit a new manager.

So what’s more risky?

A manager presiding over poor form?
Or
No manager?

Hope SDG won’t be hung out to dry if Ron’s experiment fails.I didn't see Ron mentioning a relegation battle?

I did see him state that were are better than where we currently are and the board felt they wernt seeing any incremental improvements under maloney - hence the change

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

One of the main justifications for sacking Maloney was a fear that the downward spiral would drag the club into a relegation battle.

He’s also stated that he won’t rush to recruit a new manager.

So what’s more risky?

A manager presiding over poor form?
Or
No manager?

Hope SDG won’t be hung out to dry if Ron’s experiment fails.

Is Ron Gordon a scientist? Clubs hire and sack managers all over the place and I don't think the word "experiment" gets used to describe the situation.

Gray is taking us until the end of the season. That is it. New manager will come in and will hopefully push us on next season.

[Since452]

No manager is probably better than Maloney in all honesty.

[ShinyFantastic]

No manager is probably better than Maloney in all honesty.

Shaun Maloney- the best manager in the world

[RIP]

Is Ron Gordon a scientist? I don't think the word "experiment" gets used to describe the situation.

Fair comment MH. Have corrected my terminology

[Unseen work]

I think there was more than Maloney simply not performing well.

I think getting Gray and May taking the team will lift the morale and get them back to doing basics.

Wouldn’t be surprised if we put a few past st Mirren today.

[Since452]

I think there was more than Maloney simply not performing well.

I think getting Gray and May taking the team will lift the morale and get them back to doing basics.

Wouldn’t be surprised if we put a few past st Mirren today.

I was going to post the same but didn't want to jinx it.

[OldEast]

Everything RG said made perfect sense.
Keeping Maloney would have been more risky than binning him. Couldn't see where a win or a goal was coming from. Hopefully the change in atmosphere and tactics albeit with a severely depleted squad gets us at least 2 wins.

[Vini1875]

If Shaun Maloney had stayed in his post, would it ok to start a process to replace him? My reading of it, is that they want time to get a new man, then give that man time to assess the squad and recruit players. Waiting to sack Shaun Maloney at the end of the season would cut that time down by 5 weeks and possibly holidays. Add to that the interview process etc while the clock ticks down to next season starting.

There is a lot of slagging of what Hibs are doing, but name a club where they have got all mangerial appointments and player signings bang on. It's all a bit of a gamble. I also notice it is the usual media suspects slagging Hibs or Ex-celtc team-mates sticking up for Shaun.

[BILLYHIBS]

The no shots on target in League games was a red flag

SM’s League results were unacceptable for a club of our stature experiment or no experiment

We could not gamble on another 2014

We are not out of the woods yet

In Ron we trust

[ahibby]

One of the main justifications for sacking Maloney was a fear that the downward spiral would drag the club into a relegation battle.

He’s also stated that he won’t rush to recruit a new manager.

So what’s more risky?

A manager presiding over poor form?
Or
No manager?

Hope SDG won’t be hung out to dry if Ron’s judgement fails.

My wee concern is that it should be the manager identifying the kind if players we need si the recruitment team can find them. Ron said we have a couple of holes to fill. Which holes should be up to a manager. Managers will be making those decisions now, not in five ir ten weeks time.

[Stevie Reid]

I think Ron’s point about the director who mentioned no signs of team improvement, or improvement of individuals within it, is key.

There seemed to be a pattern of new signings looking positive when they first appeared - I know the vast majority of us look for the positives when new players play their first games, but guys like Mueller and Jasper looked good and full of potential when they first played.

A few weeks later they seemed to be playing within themselves, and with much less freedom. Similarly I thought Rocky looked quite raw but with many good SPL attributes when he first played - his performance level seemed to really drop off too.

I do think there may be parallels with Maloney and Heckingbottom - they both had their best spells when taking over from a team that had been managed by someone else, and the players seemed to lack the freedom to play under them.

I remember the players under Hecky constantly saying that they were given incredibly clear instructions of what their jobs were - but it seemed to be at the cost of playing football.

Ultimately, there were no positives to take by the end of Maloney’s tenure, and the prospect of giving him a lot of money to spend in the summer was deemed to big a risk - not to mention the fact that we’re yet to secure our place in the league this season.

[Billy Whizz]

I think there was more than Maloney simply not performing well.

I think getting Gray and May taking the team will lift the morale and get them back to doing basics.

Wouldn’t be surprised if we put a few past st Mirren today.

Would be great if that was the case

[easty]

One of the main justifications for sacking Maloney was a fear that the downward spiral would drag the club into a relegation battle.

He’s also stated that he won’t rush to recruit a new manager.

So what’s more risky?

A manager presiding over poor form?
Or
No manager?

Hope SDG won’t be hung out to dry if Ron’s judgement fails.

Far more risky to stick with a manager who’s picking up few points, even against the teams below you.

[Sioux]

The no shots on target in League games was a red flag

SM’s League results were unacceptable for a club of our stature experiment or no experiment

We could not gamble on another 2014

We are not out of the woods yet

In Ron we trust

The lack of a competent striker was more pertinent. That's not to say that SM gets off the hook.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I think Ron’s point about the director who mentioned no signs of team improvement, or improvement of individuals within it, is key.

There seemed to be a pattern of new signings looking positive when they first appeared - I know the vast majority of us look for the positives when new players play their first games, but guys like Mueller and Jasper looked good and full of potential when they first played.

A few weeks later they seemed to be playing within themselves, and with much less freedom. Similarly I thought Rocky looked quite raw but with many good SPL attributes when he first played - his performance level seemed to really drop off too.

I do think there may be parallels with Maloney and Heckingbottom - they both had their best spells when taking over from a team that had been managed by someone else, and the players seemed to lack the freedom to play under them.

I remember the players under Hecky constantly saying that they were given incredibly clear instructions of what their jobs were - but it seemed to be at the cost of playing football.

Ultimately, there were no positives to take by the end of Maloney’s tenure, and the prospect of giving him a lot of money to spend in the summer was deemed to big a risk - not to mention the fact that we’re yet to secure our place in the league this season.

Hecky’s, Maloney’s and Jack Ross’s worst spells coincided with the loss of Martin Boyle for a period of time.

[easty]

I think Ron’s point about the director who mentioned no signs of team improvement, or improvement of individuals within it, is key.

There seemed to be a pattern of new signings looking positive when they first appeared - I know the vast majority of us look for the positives when new players play their first games, but guys like Mueller and Jasper looked good and full of potential when they first played.

A few weeks later they seemed to be playing within themselves, and with much less freedom. Similarly I thought Rocky looked quite raw but with many good SPL attributes when he first played - his performance level seemed to really drop off too.

I do think there may be parallels with Maloney and Heckingbottom - they both had their best spells when taking over from a team that had been managed by someone else, and the players seemed to lack the freedom to play under them.

I remember the players under Hecky constantly saying that they were given incredibly clear instructions of what their jobs were - but it seemed to be at the cost of playing football.

Ultimately, there were no positives to take by the end of Maloney’s tenure, and the prospect of giving him a lot of money to spend in the summer was deemed to big a risk - not to mention the fact that we’re yet to secure our place in the league this season.

Are we classing Maloneys first two games as his good spell?

I’d argue he never had a good spell.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

One of the main justifications for sacking Maloney was a fear that the downward spiral would drag the club into a relegation battle.

He’s also stated that he won’t rush to recruit a new manager.

So what’s more risky?

A manager presiding over poor form?
Or
No manager?

Hope SDG won’t be hung out to dry if Ron’s judgement fails.

Do something or do nothing. Doing nothing looked like the worse option

[Lago]

I was going to post the same but didn't want to jinx it.
Now you've both jinx it. 🙈

[Stevie Reid]

Are we classing Maloneys first two games as his good spell?

I’d argue he never had a good spell.

It’s all relative - he was only here for 19 games and that was the only time he won two in a row.

I had meant to add to that point by saying that he and Hecky had a good start but they both dropped off after a longer spell of working with the players (pre-season for PH, winter break for SM).

[Daydreamer]

Maloney should have been given the sack for his scatterbrained signings in January. An absolute shambles and the one player thats looks ok we have a decent player in Cadden that plays in Clarke's position. Utter waste from Maloney.

[Smartie]

Are we classing Maloneys first two games as his good spell?

I’d argue he never had a good spell.

I was very optimistic after those 2 games.

We were significantly poorer straight away when we resumed after Christmas and never really recovered much form.

You had to really go searching hard for positives to find the second half of a draw vs United and a spirited defeat against Hearts at Hampden.

In the end his only defences were mitigating factors and the fact he hadn’t been here long. We showed next to nothing under Maloney to suggest he deserved more time.

[Is It On....]

Maloney should have been given the sack for his scatterbrained signings in January. An absolute shambles and the one player thats looks ok we have a decent player in Cadden that plays in Clarke's position. Utter waste from Maloney.

The Recruitment team identify the players for each position. Then the manager selects what he needs. My key criticism is that if he wanted to play one up front then he should have selected a striker that could play that role. Heckingbottom tried to transform Doidge into a lone striker and failed. Eddie May in his first game played Doidge up front and he was like a player transformed. Getting a manager that can get the best out of the players we have is all we need so it will interesting to see what happens in the next five games.

[Eyrie]

I was very optimistic after those 2 games.

We were significantly poorer straight away when we resumed after Christmas and never really recovered much form.

You had to really go searching hard for positives to find the second half of a draw vs United and a spirited defeat against Hearts at Hampden.

In the end his only defences were mitigating factors and the fact he hadn’t been here long. We showed next to nothing under Maloney to suggest he deserved more time.

Me too.

I expected us to be even better after Maloney had had the winter break to work with the players, yet we were clearly worse. The Motherwell cup game felt the same - good performance against ten men in the first half followed by a poor second half after the players had been in the dressing room.

[RIP]

Maloney should have been given the sack for his scatterbrained signings in January. An absolute shambles and the one player thats looks ok we have a decent player in Cadden that plays in Clarke's position. Utter waste from Maloney.

So there’s still one person who believes that the head coach at Hibs makes all the signings.

Terry Butcher was the last back in 2014.

[GRA]

Unless we somehow end up getting relegated it's a no lose situation for SDG. Finish 10th or higher and he has done his job and can move onto the next season. If we win all 5 games though there will be a rush to see him installed permanently?..

[Northernhibee]

Worked today. Decent subs at a good time. Mixed it quite well when push came to a shove. Not a pretty win but a win I don't think we would have got under Maloney.

[RIP]

Unless we somehow end up getting relegated it's a no lose situation for SDG. Finish 10th or higher and he has done his job and can move onto the next season. If we win all 5 games though there will be a rush to see him installed permanently?..

Let’s see what a win does for the team’s confidence.

[blackpoolhibs]

So there’s still one person who believes that the head coach at Hibs makes all the signings.

Terry Butcher was the last back in 2014.

Who is the man who gets sacked when the team does not win?

Maloney got the final say on who he signed, he signed kids when we needed quality, especially when you know what the prize was for 3rd place this season.

[IberianHibernian]

Who is the man who gets sacked when the team does not win?

Maloney got the final say on who he signed, he signed kids when we needed quality, especially when you know what the prize was for 3rd place this season.SM took over a struggling team ( that`s why job was available ) in late December . At that point , we still had Boyle and Hanlon , McGinn , Nesbit , ... fit . January window is always difficult but even so we signed Clarke ( now looking like a great signing but unavailable for SM except for last 3 games ,) ; Mitchell ( seemed okay but soon injured ) , Jasper ( looks like he might be good but unfairly spoken of as Boyle`s replacement ) , Rocky who I think was ok for what we needed ( defensive cover ) and 2 Norwegians who may be good signings looking ahead . I doubt SM was given much chance to sign experienced new players in January - what experienced players were available ? We probably should have looked for an on loan striker but Nesbit was still fit and Doidge coming back so couldn`t guarantee playing time for new striker . In short , I doubt SM had much if any say in January signings . Hopefully at least some of them will turn in to good long term signings for us I certainly don`t hold anything agisnt SM for signings . Doubt he had much if any say in signings . Also , this year`s signings seem to be good for long term at least .

[RIP]

SM took over a struggling team ( that`s why job was available ) in late December . At that point , we still had Boyle and Hanlon , McGinn , Nesbit , ... fit . January window is always difficult but even so we signed Clarke ( now looking like a great signing but unavailable for SM except for last 3 games ,) ; Mitchell ( seemed okay but soon injured ) , Jasper ( looks like he might be good but unfairly spoken of as Boyle`s replacement ) , Rocky who I think was ok for what we needed ( defensive cover ) and 2 Norwegians who may be good signings looking ahead . I doubt SM was given much chance to sign experienced new players in January - what experienced players were available ? We probably should have looked for an on loan striker but Nesbit was still fit and Doidge coming back so couldn`t guarantee playing time for new striker . In short , I doubt SM had much if any say in January signings . Hopefully at least some of them will turn in to good long term signings for us I certainly don`t hold anything agisnt SM for signings . Doubt he had much if any say in signings . Also , this year`s signings seem to be good for long term at least .

This.

All of the players signed by Kensall and Ian Gordon (Head Coach / Manager at Hibs doesn’t sign players) were lined up prior to Maloney’s arrival based on a ‘one for the future’ philosophy.

Maloney, like other previous recruits was judged on the performances and results he obtained from the players at his disposal. Without Boyle, Doidge, Nisbet, Macey, Doig, Magennis, Porteous, Clarke, Hanlon, Mitchell, Bushiri at points since January he had little choice but to field second string players.

He will look back on the timing of his entry into management with a lot of regret. Lady Luck clearly was not on his side

[Stubbsy90+2]

It’s all relative - he was only here for 19 games and that was the only time he won two in a row.

I had meant to add to that point by saying that he and Hecky had a good start but they both dropped off after a longer spell of working with the players (pre-season for PH, winter break for SM).

To be fair he won 3 of his first 5 with the defeat being at Parkhead and a draw away to Motherwell. Under other managers I’d suggest 7 points from 4 in the league with 3 of them being away, 1 of them to the Champions elect and progression in the cup would be a pretty decent spell.

Like you said, relative to his length of time time here, it’s probably fair to class that as a ‘spell’ where he got good results. It accounted for over a quarter of his tenure.

[18Craig75]

This.

All of the players signed by Kensall and Ian Gordon (Head Coach / Manager at Hibs doesn’t sign players) were lined up prior to Maloney’s arrival based on a ‘one for the future’ philosophy.

Maloney, like other previous recruits was judged on the performances and results he obtained from the players at his disposal. Without Boyle, Doidge, Nisbet, Macey, Doig, Magennis, Porteous, Clarke, Hanlon, Mitchell, Bushiri at points since January he had little choice but to field second string players.

He will look back on the timing of his entry into management with a lot of regret. Lady Luck clearly was not on his side

Lady Luck as well as the foggiest clue as to how to assemble players into a winning formation. Maybe he’ll be less stubborn/arrogant in his next job. I hope so for his sake, otherwise he won’t go far in the management game.

[hibee1875]

Lady Luck as well as the foggiest clue as to how to assemble players into a winning formation. Maybe he’ll be less stubborn/arrogant in his next job. I hope so for his sake, otherwise he won’t go far in the management game.

Agree. The lack of experienced signings wasn’t the issue. It was the inability to change a non working system.

Dundee Utd, St Johnstone, Dundee, Motherwell when they were down to 10. Just one of these drab draws turned into a win by changing from
pass pass pass to something more direct for the last half hour and he’d have the whole summer to get his players in playing his way.

[Winston Ingram]

No manager is probably better than Maloney in all honesty.

This

[Hibbyradge]

To be fair he won 3 of his first 5 with the defeat being at Parkhead and a draw away to Motherwell. Under other managers I’d suggest 7 points from 4 in the league with 3 of them being away, 1 of them to the Champions elect and progression in the cup would be a pretty decent spell.

Like you said, relative to his length of time time here, it’s probably fair to class that as a ‘spell’ where he got good results. It accounted for over a quarter of his tenure.

New manager bounce, similar to what happened with Heckingbottom.

And then Maloney started to properly implement his style of play.

[MickeyEdwards]

No manager is probably better than Maloney in all honesty.

i 100% agree with your view and he should have been given time to implement the style of football that was evident when he had sufficient numbers of our better more effective players available to him for selection.
Sean was assistant Manager to a Top Global international football team at Belgium, so worked with some of the best footballers in the World. He had great exposure to how the best styles of football could be played with the right types of player in the team.

He knew he could replicate those winning styles at Hibs but has been sacked by an incompetent Owner who never released any significant cash to bring good players into the club.

I wish Sean Maloney all the very best for a great football management career ahead.

Not convinced we have the right owner, so may take a year out!

[Sioux]

i 100% agree with your view and he should have been given time to implement the style of football that was evident when he had sufficient numbers of our better more effective players available to him for selection.
Sean was assistant Manager to a Top Global international football team at Belgium, so worked with some of the best footballers in the World. He had great exposure to how the best styles of football could be played with the right types of player in the team.

He knew he could replicate those winning styles at Hibs but has been sacked by an incompetent Owner who never released any significant cash to bring good players into the club.

I wish Sean Maloney all the very best for a great football management career ahead.

Not convinced we have the right owner, so may take a year out!

Really? Asking the players we have to play like Belgium is one hell of a high bar.

[Ringothedog]

Really? Asking the players we have to play like Belgium is one hell of a high bar.

And it was shown by our efforts on the pitch that it was a completely ridiculous way to have us playing.

[CapitalGreen]

i 100% agree with your view and he should have been given time to implement the style of football that was evident when he had sufficient numbers of our better more effective players available to him for selection.
Sean was assistant Manager to a Top Global international football team at Belgium, so worked with some of the best footballers in the World. He had great exposure to how the best styles of football could be played with the right types of player in the team.

He knew he could replicate those winning styles at Hibs but has been sacked by an incompetent Owner who never released any significant cash to bring good players into the club.

I wish Sean Maloney all the very best for a great football management career ahead.

Not convinced we have the right owner, so may take a year out!

Being a coach with the Belgium National team is no indication that someone will make a good club manager. Both Thierry Henry and Graeme Jones have been assistant managers with Belgium and both were terrible club managers.

[18Craig75]

i 100% agree with your view and he should have been given time to implement the style of football that was evident when he had sufficient numbers of our better more effective players available to him for selection.
Sean was assistant Manager to a Top Global international football team at Belgium, so worked with some of the best footballers in the World. He had great exposure to how the best styles of football could be played with the right types of player in the team.

He knew he could replicate those winning styles at Hibs but has been sacked by an incompetent Owner who never released any significant cash to bring good players into the club.

I wish Sean Maloney all the very best for a great football management career ahead.

Not convinced we have the right owner, so may take a year out!

If he knew he could replicate those styles then why didn’t he replicate those styles? He was too stubborn to put his philosophy on the back burner and get a couple wins with what he had in order to buy time for a summer rebuild.

That’s being kind, I don’t think he’ll have any sort of career in management. Assistant yeah by all means. The players were getting progressively worse the longer he had with them! His best two games were Dundee United away where we scored a magnificent team goal, and Aberdeen @ home where we ground out a pretty uninspiring win. He then had 3/4 weeks with the players during the winter break and we came back much much worse, and the slide continued.

So glad Ron G got rid of him before letting him waste anymore of the transfer budget.

[jacomo]

The lack of a competent striker was more pertinent. That's not to say that SM gets off the hook.


The biggest worry for me is that we were hardly creating any chances or spells of quality possession under Maloney.

If we had Harry Kane up front who could create and finish then that would be one thing, but anyone within our reach would have struggled to score goals.

The 2nd half in the cup semi final WAS a lot better, but really that’s not saying much.

[Eyrie]

The lack of a competent striker was more pertinent. That's not to say that SM gets off the hook.

That's one of the reasons I don't like playing with only one striker.

It's very difficult to find a third choice who's both half decent and willing to sit on the bench every week whilst the two ahead of him get all the game time, one starting and the other as a sub. So we've ended up playing either a young kid learning the position and new to his team mates, or Scott.

If we play with two strikers, then we'd need four in the squad and the two back ups can expect a reasonable amount of playing time which makes it easier to sign decent depth.

[erin go bragh]

i 100% agree with your view and he should have been given time to implement the style of football that was evident when he had sufficient numbers of our better more effective players available to him for selection.
Sean was assistant Manager to a Top Global international football team at Belgium, so worked with some of the best footballers in the World. He had great exposure to how the best styles of football could be played with the right types of player in the team.

He knew he could replicate those winning styles at Hibs but has been sacked by an incompetent Owner who never released any significant cash to bring good players into the club.

I wish Sean Maloney all the very best for a great football management career ahead.

Not convinced we have the right owner, so may take a year out!

He meant not having any manager is better than having Maloney 🤔

[jacomo]

i 100% agree with your view and he should have been given time to implement the style of football that was evident when he had sufficient numbers of our better more effective players available to him for selection.
Sean was assistant Manager to a Top Global international football team at Belgium, so worked with some of the best footballers in the World. He had great exposure to how the best styles of football could be played with the right types of player in the team.

He knew he could replicate those winning styles at Hibs but has been sacked by an incompetent Owner who never released any significant cash to bring good players into the club.

I wish Sean Maloney all the very best for a great football management career ahead.

Not convinced we have the right owner, so may take a year out!


If he has a great managerial career, please return to say ‘I told you so’.

He will need to improve his approach, though. No owner is going to remain endlessly patient while Maloney imposes tactics that clearly aren’t working.

[Mcbizz1998]

No manager is better than Maloney. How many games were we without a win?

We then win our first game without him.

[snedzuk]

No manager is better than Maloney. How many games were we without a win?

We then win our first game without him.

Its literally correct then that having no manager, is better then Maloney!

[ian cruise]

I think Ron’s point about the director who mentioned no signs of team improvement, or improvement of individuals within it, is key.

There seemed to be a pattern of new signings looking positive when they first appeared - I know the vast majority of us look for the positives when new players play their first games, but guys like Mueller and Jasper looked good and full of potential when they first played.

A few weeks later they seemed to be playing within themselves, and with much less freedom. Similarly I thought Rocky looked quite raw but with many good SPL attributes when he first played - his performance level seemed to really drop off too.

I do think there may be parallels with Maloney and Heckingbottom - they both had their best spells when taking over from a team that had been managed by someone else, and the players seemed to lack the freedom to play under them.

I remember the players under Hecky constantly saying that they were given incredibly clear instructions of what their jobs were - but it seemed to be at the cost of playing football.

Ultimately, there were no positives to take by the end of Maloney’s tenure, and the prospect of giving him a lot of money to spend in the summer was deemed to big a risk - not to mention the fact that we’re yet to secure our place in the league this season.

Very much where I was in regards to Maloney. I think we've got good players, but they're definitely not expressing themselves and playing within themselves.

It will be interesting to see if we start to allow the players a little more freedom until the end of the season and if any can rise to the occasion.