Fan Ownership

[nickwhibs]

Is it time to make a push towards majority fan ownership? We are in such a mess just now and many wrong decisions taken. I know fan ownership won’t guarantee that the right decisions will always be made but at least they will be made with the club at heart. Supporters are what make a club.

[SlickShoes]

Nope

[MWHIBBIES]

God no.

[flash]

Is it time to make a push towards majority fan ownership? We are in such a mess just now and many wrong decisions taken. I know fan ownership won’t guarantee that the right decisions will always be made but at least they will be made with the club at heart. Supporters are what make a club.

A terrifying thought.

[nickwhibs]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

[Billy Whizz]

Is it time to make a push towards majority fan ownership? We are in such a mess just now and many wrong decisions taken. I know fan ownership won’t guarantee that the right decisions will always be made but at least they will be made with the club at heart. Supporters are what make a club.

I don’t majority ownership, as it could get messy (not that this isn’t)
I think we should have a major voice at the Hibs table but we don’t

HSL if you’re reading this, don’t give Ron another penny, use the money as a fighting fund, might be a strong bargaining position in the future

I just don’t understand Gordon, you’d think he’d want to embrace HSL funds, and fan engagement

[Diclonius]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

One bad season and half our shareholders will stop contributing, if fan (non) attendance over the years is anything to go by.

[marinello59]

I don’t majority ownership, as it could get messy (not that this isn’t)
I think we should have a major voice at the Hibs table but we don’t

HSL if you’re reading this, don’t give Ron another penny, use the money as a fighting fund, might be a strong bargaining position in the future

I just don’t understand Gordon, you’d think he’d want to embrace HSL funds, and fan engagement

:agree:

Ron Gordon has no interest in working with HSL, none, he's made that clear from day one.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Supporter minority ownership (25%), absolutely yes.

majority ownership, no.

[Pretty Boy]

There is a lot of misunderstanding around fan ownership, often that is the fault of the biggest proponents of it as they regularly fail to really explain it.

I think some people imagine a situation in which we would have been having a 'stay or go' polls on here before a decision like today was made. Fan owned clubs are still run by a professional board of directors. Boroussia Dortmund shares are traded on the German stock exchange but are largely in the hands of fans. Some of the biggest clubs in Spain, including Barcelona and Real Madrid, are still governed by various member schemes. And in Scotland St Mirren, Motherwell and Hearts are all fan owned with Morton and Partick Thistle soon to follow suit.

As far as I'm aware none of them have situations where the more outlandish things suggested, such as fans voting on who starts up front or fans setting the price of pies, regularly crop up.

I'm neither for or against it for Hibs. I just want us to enjoy sustained relative success and I'm not convinced a club with a majority of shares in the hands of fans would be doing any worse than we currently are with our sooper dooper mega rich businessman.

[MWHIBBIES]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

Read Hibs.net for 30 minutes and you'll see why it's a bad idea

[superfurryhibby]

Supporter minority ownership (25%), absolutely yes.

majority ownership, no.

We already have that, between HSL and individual shareholders. It counts for SFA.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Read Hibs.net for 30 minutes and you'll see why it's a bad idea

do you honestly believe hibs.net contributors would be picking the team on Saturdays or choosing commercial partnerships or sponsors in the event of supporter ownership?

I know you were being half tongue in cheek but as Pretty Boy mentioned above, supporter ownership does not mean that.

[Pagan Hibernia]

We already have that, between HSL and individual shareholders. It counts for SFA.

well if we do have that, and it is still an “if” when you consider the fact that the faceless mysterious nominee share holdings may be fans and they may not. But if we do then it certainly doesn’t mean sfa. What it means is Gordon, or whoever comes after him cannot reach the 75% needed to do some very naughty things to our football club. To me that is important, whether fans have a say in matters or not.

[Daniel 1875]

We already have that, between HSL and individual shareholders. It counts for SFA.

It would count for something in the event a majority owner wants to do something drastic with the club.

It would count for more if it was a unified body/voice of supporters rather than lots of unnamed shareholders who may not be relied upon in the event of said drastic decision.

In my experience there’s little appetite for ‘fan ownership’ in the FoH mould and far more appetite for fan representation.

[weecounty hibby]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

Check out the thread suggesting McPake for new manager to see why😂

[Keith_M]

Regardless of how wise it would be for fans to own the club, there's currently no possibility of it happening, as the shares simply aren't available for purchase.

[Jones28]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.


James McPake (hibs.net) (https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?357355-James-McPake)

[allezsauzee]

If you can't get fans to agree on whether a manager should be sacked after each defeat on this forum, how do you think that translates into the running of a football club?

[superfurryhibby]

If you can't get fans to agree on whether a manager should be sacked after each defeat on this forum, how do you think that translates into the running of a football club?

That’s how fan ownership works , right enough.

[Since452]

Really don't want fan ownership.

[Pretty Boy]

If you can't get fans to agree on whether a manager should be sacked after each defeat on this forum, how do you think that translates into the running of a football club?

It doesn't.

Which is why fan owned clubs have professional boards, similar to those clubs owned by private individuals, who make those decisions.

If HSL or some other fan entity owned a controlling stake in Hibs then Jame McPake isn't going to be appointed because someone on Hibs.net suggested it (not that I believe anyone really thinks that would be the case anyway, you'd have to be really, really stupid if you did).

[A Hi-Bee]

Is it time to make a push towards majority fan ownership? We are in such a mess just now and many wrong decisions taken. I know fan ownership won’t guarantee that the right decisions will always be made but at least they will be made with the club at heart. Supporters are what make a club.

We dont have a sugar daddy like the manky broon ones over at tincastle, so where is all the cash gonna come from we struggle to get payments into HSL never mind fan (short for fanatic) ownership.

[RIP]

The problem with fan ownership is that your average supporter thinks that it means a punter from the Iona Bar picking the manager or new signings.

It doesn’t.

It means replacing a single ownership model with more funding from the fan base. Hearts have that model. That’s one of the main reasons why they have overtaken us.

The current owners don’t have a clue. We were well served under Sir Tom, Rod, Leeann and a board consisting of Hibs fans. We face an uncertain future now.

[DanishJohn]

The problem with fan ownership is that your average supporter thinks that it means a punter from the Iona Bar picking the manager or new signings.

It doesn’t.

It means replacing a single ownership model with more funding from the fan base. Hearts have that model. That’s one of the main reasons why they have overtaken us.

The current owners don’t have a clue.


AND

When you hear Neilson being interviewed at Hampden FT, he clearly states that is the increased large sums of money Hearts are getting from FOH that is enabling him to buy a better quality of player. A player that wants to go there before us because they can pay said player more money than us.

[ancient hibee]

It doesn't.

Which is why fan owned clubs have professional boards, similar to those clubs owned by private individuals, who make those decisions.

If HSL or some other fan entity owned a controlling stake in Hibs then Jame McPake isn't going to be appointed because someone on Hibs.net suggested it (not that I believe anyone really thinks that would be the case anyway, you'd have to be really, really stupid if you did).

And who appoints the professional board? The reason that Hearts have a proper set up is because Budge was in total control and able to put everything into place before FOH got her shares.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Absolutely not .... just enough shares in the hands of ordinary fans to stop the club being asset stripped, absolutely, but majority fan ownership no.

Yes we can look at Germany and Spain, but these are countries with populations of 80 and 48 million people, the fan ownership / membership of clubs extends to sometimes over a hundred thousand people, they also operate in huge domestic and global TV markets with sponsorship and advertising revenues to match, they do not solely rely on fan input.

No doubt the subject has been brought up at this point because five minutes after becoming fan owned Hearts are having their best season in about 10 years and we are having our worst since we returned to the premiership. But as I said on another thread, what happens when things take a downturn at Hearts as they inevitably will, it happens at every club and they are no different.

What happens when the accounts that have been turned from red to black three years running through cash injections from one or two wealthy fans stay red because these wealthy fans are no longer willing or able to ante up? What happens when their 8000 FoH members who now own the club are asked to cover a deficit of 2 or 3 million quid .... will they be willing or able to pay hundreds of pounds each on top of their usual FoH contributions and buying a season ticket simply to balance the books .... not to buy or pay new players, not to improve infrastructure, but simply to keep the club going, with no guarantee that they wont be asked to do exactly the same a year later?

In the absence of a tiny handful of rich 'benefactors' willing to bankroll the club what rich person or entity with no emotional connection to the club would be willing to put in millions to balance the books without being given outright control of the club? Hibs current owner put a stop to HSL's share buying process the second he took over and I absolutely guarantee any outsider the future 'fan owned' Hearts might look to to bale them out of the brown stuff will demand exactly what Ron Gordon did ..... full control and no partners thank you very much.

IMO fan ownership can work fine for huge German clubs for the reasons I've given, it can also be great for small community clubs like Dunfermline, Morton, AFC Wimbledon or FC United of Manchester who have no pretensions of being in contention in the top league on a regular basis or regular European participants, with simply being around to serve the community they come from being the measure of success.

The Hearts are on a high just now, but being baled out by rich fans in order to balance the books is not a sign of a business trading successfully on it's own merits which is exactly how a fan owned club is supposed to work .... A couple of poor seasons with the rich benefactors nowhere to be seen will be the acid test for Hearts and with a fan base as limited as theirs where will the money come from? Not the bank that's for sure, so where?

This is a scenario that they will have to face sometime in the future, its absolutely inevitable and any Hearts fan who thinks it isn't is absolutely deluding themselves .... we would be exactly the same but with a smaller fanbase ... this is not for us.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I don’t majority ownership, as it could get messy (not that this isn’t)
I think we should have a major voice at the Hibs table but we don’t

HSL if you’re reading this, don’t give Ron another penny, use the money as a fighting fund, might be a strong bargaining position in the future

I just don’t understand Gordon, you’d think he’d want to embrace HSL funds, and fan engagement


i stopped when RG stopped the sale of further share purchases for HSL


though HSL doing away with Paypal payments also pi$$ed me right off


fwiw i don't want fan ownership either, i mean fans controlling everything that is, 50.01% fan ownership would have been acceptable :)

[Keith_M]

Hearts now have fan Ownership, and have benefited from massive injections of cash since 2012(?), but this season will be the first time they've finished above us since we were promoted in 2017.

All that cash could be very useful, but it's certainly no guarantee of success.

[Gatecrasher]

I agree we should be looking for fan ownership, but we had a chance and never took it.

[Billy Whizz]

i stopped when RG stopped the sale of further share purchases for HSL


though HSL doing away with Paypal payments also pi$$ed me right off


fwiw i don't want fan ownership either, i mean fans controlling everything that is, 50.01% fan ownership would have been acceptable :)

I did too, and I know quite a few others that did as well

I don’t want fan ownership, but I’d like us to have a bigger say on the running of Hibs. Our input at the moment is nil

[LewysGot2]

Hearts now have fan Ownership, and have benefited from massive injections of cash since 2012(?), but this season will be the first time they've finished above us since we were promoted in 2017.

All that cash could be very useful, but it's certainly no guarantee of success.

They've been paying back Anne Budge. That's done now, or as good as done, so all those contributions go to the fighting fund.

Our equivalent was undermined from the off by our own support, with a campaign against it from one or two we'll known folk who called it a ponzi scheme. There were even posters and stickers put up round the city to discourage fans from contributing. Then the window for getting enough money in to do anything meaningful closed with RGS arrival. And his "ponying up" requests were also met with unhappy noises.

I sometimes wonder what our fan base expects or wants. There's no denying that the threat of extinction galvanised the Gorgie Gonads support but there's no sign of it trailing away.

I do think if we don't respond in some way, FoH and AberDNA will leave us in a no man's land just ahead of Dundee United size wise

[MichaelBrown]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

Who funds it?

[Daniel 1875]

Who funds it?

The same means that fund any football club. Commercial activity, ticket sales, player sales.

How many principle shareholders in Scotland are bankrolling clubs? Ours certainly isn’t. The money would come from the same people and means it already does, with the added bonus that supporters would get a say in run of the mill things like VAR or ticket pricing - or drastic things like moving to Straiton.

I’m not an advocate for full fan ownership, and that’s never been the intention of HSL, but the idea that we should leave it to someone else with deep pockets to run the club on our behalf doesn’t sit well with me either.

[LewysGot2]

The same means that fund any football club. Commercial activity, ticket sales, player sales.

How many principle shareholders in Scotland are bankrolling clubs? Ours certainly isn’t. The money would come from the same people and means it already does, with the added bonus that supporters would get a say in run of the mill things like VAR or ticket pricing - or drastic things like moving to Straiton.

I’m not an advocate for full fan ownership, and that’s never been the intention of HSL, but the idea that we should leave it to someone else with deep pockets to run the club on our behalf doesn’t sit well with me either.

There does seem to be a bit of that mentality at play in the wider support. My own preference would be a version of AberDNA where supporters get benefits from contributing in more ways than just going to games or buying STs- giving farther afield fans a chance to feel more of a part of things and contribute in a range of ways.

I saw a thread on another site that was titled Investment where someone was demanding RG do something more akin to the generous benefactor role. Irony is the person starting the thread doesn't attend games himself. I give far too much of my cash to the club than is probably healthy - definitely enough to fund a family holiday to Florida every year. That's my choice and I'm lucky I can, at least just now, make that choice. However, it's not the same for everyone and for us to maximise potential we need better than HSL. And I say that as a HSL contributor, too.

Unfortunately the campaign from within the support against the HSL scheme holed it beneath the waterline long ago

[Allant1981]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

You only have to look at suggestions and thoughts on this board to see why(i include my own views as well)

[Victor]

Hearts now have fan Ownership, and have benefited from massive injections of cash since 2012(?), but this season will be the first time they've finished above us since we were promoted in 2017.

All that cash could be very useful, but it's certainly no guarantee of success.

They are fortunate that they have an investor, who doesn’t appear to be interested in having any influence over the playing side of the Club. I don’t think there are many out there who would invest and not want to put there tuppence worth in, especially if things are going wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

They are fortunate that they have an investor, who doesn’t appear to be interested in having any influence over the playing side of the Club. I don’t think there are many out there who would invest and not want to put there tuppence worth in, especially if things are going wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Other than for perhaps an emotional or community return, he's not really an investor. Investment implies financial return.

[Brightside]

Is it time to make a push towards majority fan ownership? We are in such a mess just now and many wrong decisions taken. I know fan ownership won’t guarantee that the right decisions will always be made but at least they will be made with the club at heart. Supporters are what make a club.

We don't have enough fans that are willing or able to do it.

[allezsauzee]

It doesn't.

Which is why fan owned clubs have professional boards, similar to those clubs owned by private individuals, who make those decisions.

If HSL or some other fan entity owned a controlling stake in Hibs then Jame McPake isn't going to be appointed because someone on Hibs.net suggested it (not that I believe anyone really thinks that would be the case anyway, you'd have to be really, really stupid if you did).

I was being facetious. "Fan ownership" won't really change anything other than making sure that you don't end up in the hands of an asset stripper or a mad vlad type. You will still employ a professional board to make the day to day decisions, so managers will still be appointed and sacked by those people running the club and the downside is that the fans need to pony up the cash for investment.

[Daniel 1875]

There does seem to be a bit of that mentality at play in the wider support. My own preference would be a version of AberDNA where supporters get benefits from contributing in more ways than just going to games or buying STs- giving farther afield fans a chance to feel more of a part of things and contribute in a range of ways.

I saw a thread on another site that was titled Investment where someone was demanding RG do something more akin to the generous benefactor role. Irony is the person starting the thread doesn't attend games himself. I give far too much of my cash to the club than is probably healthy - definitely enough to fund a family holiday to Florida every year. That's my choice and I'm lucky I can, at least just now, make that choice. However, it's not the same for everyone and for us to maximise potential we need better than HSL. And I say that as a HSL contributor, too.

Unfortunately the campaign from within the support against the HSL scheme holed it beneath the waterline long ago

I think the reality is that if a membership scheme is something the club want to explore then it will need to be born and operated by the club itself.

HSL is a shareholder in the club which has members who have gone over and above the call of duty in the last couple of years to help the club, and it won’t be going anywhere due to the nature of the organisation.

It needs to be reimagined and purpose realigned with no shares on the table and the Covid pandemic largely behind us, and it will be as soon as we have an AGM (which is long overdue and is being organised).

[Tyler Durden]

AND

When you hear Neilson being interviewed at Hampden FT, he clearly states that is the increased large sums of money Hearts are getting from FOH that is enabling him to buy a better quality of player. A player that wants to go there before us because they can pay said player more money than us.

Sorry but this is all just the usual conjecture and hyperbole.

We don’t actually know whether Hearts are spending more this season than we are. It’s not a lack of investment in the team that has held us back this season IMO.

Hearts have had their first season in years where they have spent wisely. None of their acquisitions were out of our reach. Many are loan signings and they’ve recruited guys from the A League for example.

We’ve just thrown our money away this season.

[jakeshibs]

We could not afford fan ownership, we cant even match the donations from those on the wrong side of out city.

[A Hi-Bee]

They've been paying back Anne Budge. That's done now, or as good as done, so all those contributions go to the fighting fund.

Our equivalent was undermined from the off by our own support, with a campaign against it from one or two we'll known folk who called it a ponzi scheme. There were even posters and stickers put up round the city to discourage fans from contributing. Then the window for getting enough money in to do anything meaningful closed with RGS arrival. And his "ponying up" requests were also met with unhappy noises.

I sometimes wonder what our fan base expects or wants. There's no denying that the threat of extinction galvanised the Gorgie Gonads support but there's no sign of it trailing away.

I do think if we don't respond in some way, FoH and AberDNA will leave us in a no man's land just ahead of Dundee United size wise

Have to agree and well said.
:top marks

[A Hi-Bee]

I think the reality is that if a membership scheme is something the club want to explore then it will need to be born and operated by the club itself.

HSL is a shareholder in the club which has members who have gone over and above the call of duty in the last couple of years to help the club, and it won’t be going anywhere due to the nature of the organisation.

It needs to be reimagined and purpose realigned with no shares on the table and the Covid pandemic largely behind us, and it will be as soon as we have an AGM (which is long overdue and is being organised).

Been said many times over Daniel, we need to keep up wi the manky mob over the other side or face being left behind, that is the reality, cash is king.

[Scotty Leither]

I think the reality is that if a membership scheme is something the club want to explore then it will need to be born and operated by the club itself.

HSL is a shareholder in the club which has members who have gone over and above the call of duty in the last couple of years to help the club, and it won’t be going anywhere due to the nature of the organisation.

It needs to be reimagined and purpose realigned with no shares on the table and the Covid pandemic largely behind us, and it will be as soon as we have an AGM (which is long overdue and is being organised).

Good to hear Daniel, I think the whole HSL thing needs a reboot/rebranding, call it what you will, and I say that as a contributor. Where I feel for the HSL committee is that the club appears to treat you as an irritation, rather than as a potential asset, and force for good in terms of revenue and fan engagement.

[Mikey]

Interested to know why people don’t think it’s a good idea.

Have you ever read hibs.net?

[Helensburghhibs]

Haha no thanks I've seen some of the opinions on here alone.